Glen Tetley

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

On our desert island this week is the choreographer Glenn Tetley. Mr. Tetley, are you a musician? Do you read music? Have you studied music?

Glen Tetley0:40

I when I was very young I studied music. Uh ma I was trained in violin and um I think by age eight was playing uh with a small student orchestra, even playing the solo role.

Presenter0:45

Yeah.

Presenter0:47

I think

Presenter0:53

You still play for your own music?

Glen Tetley0:53

You still play

Glen Tetley0:54

Yeah.

Presenter0:57

Did you find it difficult to choose just eight records to last you for a long time?

Glen Tetley1:03

Yeah. There

Presenter1:03

Uh

Glen Tetley1:03

Very, very difficult.

Presenter1:05

Uh Two.

Glen Tetley1:05

The first one is L'Enfoil Lesse de Lege of Maurice Ravel, which is um one of the first records I fell in love with uh when I came to New York as a very young man.

Speaker 22:08

Yeah.

Speaker 22:12

What for a horn of free?

Presenter2:16

An excerpt from Rabel's L'Enfoil les sortilage, a recording directed by Ernest Bour.

Presenter2:23

Now, you work in so many countries. You are, of course, a citizen of the United States. Which state?

Glen Tetley2:31

New York, New York City. Were you born in New York City? No, I was born uh in Cleveland, Ohio, on the shores of Lake Erie.

Presenter2:33

No.

Glen Tetley2:38

And I grew up mainly in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Presenter2:42

Yeah. When did the dance come into your life? When did you first become conscious of dancing? When did you see?

Presenter2:47

Real dancing.

Glen Tetley2:48

I never knew that there was such a thing as professional dancing. I never knew that there was um a world of of theatrical dancing.

Glen Tetley2:55

Until I was

Glen Tetley2:57

18 years old. What was the first impact?

Glen Tetley3:01

The impact was absolutely galvanic. I mean, I.

Glen Tetley3:04

I had enlisted in the US Navy and I was in the US Navy and I was.

Glen Tetley3:10

had um been recommended for medical studies and I was involved in in my pre-med studies. And I saw American Ballet Theatre do a performance of Anthony Tudor's Romeo and Juliet and well it was extraordinary to me. I wanted to be part of that world knowing it was probably too late. I was too old to study as a dancer and I was committed already to the US Navy and to medicine, but I knew it was one of the strongest emotions I'd ever had.

Speaker 13:29

Yeah.

Glen Tetley3:47

What happened? This was during the Second World War, and I didn't have much choice about not staying with the Navy. I finished my pre-med and I was then sent on to Columbia Medical School, and the war ended. They gave me this choice whether I wanted to go on as a civilian or enlist for a further ten years and become a Navy medical officer. And in the interim, making up my mind and being in New York City, I began to take some dance classes and

Glen Tetley4:19

Knew then I would shift the whole thing, that I thought, well, I will become a dancer.

Presenter4:21

Gun

Presenter4:23

Right. At that point, very important point in your life, you have to have your second record. What will that be?

Glen Tetley4:30

The second record is uh someone I met at that time, in my early years in in New York, Billie Holliday. I remember going to a club and uh seeing this extraordinary woman singing an incredible amount of emotion in that voice.

Speaker 25:01

I get long

Speaker 25:04

Without you.

Speaker 25:06

There you are.

Speaker 25:11

Of course I do.

Speaker 25:17

Except when south rains fall.

Presenter5:20

Billy Holiday, I get along without you very well, which is a philosophical sort of title for a desert island, isn't it?

Speaker 25:27

Dick.

Glen Tetley5:27

Yeah.

Presenter5:28

Right, so there you are, you decided you were going to be a dancer.

Presenter5:32

Right. Who did you study with?

Glen Tetley5:34

If I can tell this story briefly, the incredible thing was that I had one or two lessons, I had no money.

Glen Tetley5:41

I went down to a theater where Jerome Robbins was uh putting together a show called On the Town.

Glen Tetley5:47

To borrow money from a singer I knew who was in the show, and Jerry Robbins saw me there and he said, Are you auditioning? and I said, No.

Glen Tetley5:55

I knew I had not enough technique. He said, Well, you look like a good type. So.

Glen Tetley6:00

He said, Come and do this and I did a few movements and he said, Give him a contract. Uh he not only gave me a contract, he he gave me a solo role in the show. In on the town. In on the town. So my debut was an absolute disaster because I really couldn't dance.

Presenter6:12

And on the town.

Glen Tetley6:19

You were in several

Presenter6:20

For Broadway shows.

Glen Tetley6:21

After that, yes. Which one? I was in the original uh production of Kiss Me Kate because they first

Glen Tetley6:27

dance teacher I had was Hanya Holm. Hanya gave me my first basic training, a wonderful training, and she began to go into musicals. I did

Glen Tetley6:37

Kiss Me Kate, I was in it for almost a thousand performances. I was hers.

Presenter6:40

I was her assistant? You were studying with Hanya Holme. I believe you were also studying with Martha Graham at the same time. Neither lady knew about the other one. They both had different ideas. This must have been embarrassing.

Glen Tetley6:47

But

Glen Tetley6:51

Does this must be

Glen Tetley6:53

It was because I I was uh entranced with both of them. Hanya I was not only studying with Hanya, but I had no place to stay, so I was staying in the boys' dressing room. I would clean the studio in the morning and sweep the place up and

Presenter7:05

I was living

Glen Tetley7:06

I was living in the boys' dressing room.

Glen Tetley7:09

And Heiny would fix me my breakfast. Uh I was also going in the afternoon to New York University.

Glen Tetley7:16

And there I met Martha Graham and Martha wanted me to come into her company.

Glen Tetley7:22

And it was a terrible choice because I felt what I Hanya had been so marvelous to me and gracious.

Glen Tetley7:28

And Hany was diametrically opposed to uh the world of Martha Graham.

Glen Tetley7:33

So I somehow, I don't know how, but I managed to study with both. I remember one terrible moment later on when I was at the New York State Theater and I had just done a performance and was standing in my dressing room when I saw from opposite ends of the corridor. On one end came Martha Graham and the other, how you all. So you hit.

Presenter7:53

How are you home? See you here.

Glen Tetley7:59

No, I managed to choreograph it so that uh it didn't offend others.

Presenter8:03

Either one

Glen Tetley8:03

Yeah.

Presenter8:03

Yeah.

Glen Tetley8:04

Yeah.

Presenter8:04

Hmm.

Presenter8:05

Was your main interest in dancing at that time purely modern? W had you the intention of studying classical dancing as well?

Glen Tetley8:13

Well, actually I started in classical. My first lessons were with a Russian teacher named Helen Platova and in classical dance. It was a teacher that Jerome Robbins had been studying with and he sent me to her and she was a wonderful, marvelous woman, very eccentric, very eccentric, very choreographic. But starting so late, I felt I had more security going into contemporary. Another record, what's number three?

Speaker 18:24

And she

Glen Tetley8:39

Number three is um Joseph Haydn's The Seven Last Words, played by the Amadeus Quartet.

Glen Tetley8:46

What does that music mean to you?

Glen Tetley8:48

The form means a great deal to me. It it's uh

Glen Tetley8:53

It's a very emotional subject put into a very precise form and uh I like both the intensity and the restraint with which it's written.

Presenter10:01

The Largo from Haydn's The Seven Last Words of Our Lord from the Cross played by the Amadeus Quartet.

Presenter10:08

When did you first come to Europe?

Presenter10:10

Yeah.

Glen Tetley10:10

I

Glen Tetley10:12

First came to Europe.

Glen Tetley10:17

That was with Jeremy Robbins, was it? No.

Presenter10:18

Mm-hmm.

Glen Tetley10:19

That was with Hanyo Holm and I came over here, Tennants brought me over, to be her assistant on a musical version of Charlie's Aunt called Where's Charlie? starring Norman Wisdom and I came over here and had an absolutely wonderful time working with Norman Wisdom, choreographing for him and for Pip Hinton and a host of people. There was still the old London fog in those days.

Speaker 110:29

Uh

Speaker 210:30

Mm-hmm.

Glen Tetley10:46

You'd already decided.

Presenter10:46

You had already decided that you wanted a choreograph.

Glen Tetley10:48

Well, not that I wanted to. I was kind of hiding under the mantle of people. I was Hanya's assistant, you know. I was doing a lot of choreography. I learned a lot from Hanya.

Presenter10:54

I was

Glen Tetley10:57

Because she she had a complete school and that she taught not just technique but theory and uh composition and uh and a lot of practical experience working in these musicals as her assistant.

Glen Tetley11:10

No, my intention was that um when I got my technique together I was just going to be the best dancer. I never felt that I really wanted to be a choreographer in those early

Glen Tetley11:19

Years. When did you change your mind?

Glen Tetley11:24

It came about gradually. I mean there there's a book by Sean O'Casey where he said he was tired of looking at other people's pictures in the picture gallery and he thought he'd see if he could paint one. I had um been with American Ballet Theatre as a principal and uh with Drum Robins Company and uh I decided I was going to stop performing. I took an entire year off. I refused any contracts, which is a rather dangerous thing to do in a precarious theater business. But uh a friend of mine, a a young friend of mine in New York, offered to give me the money to do my own concert and uh his name was Jack Prince and I spent a year choreographing four ballets, uh commissioning scores, commissioning designers and uh it was nineteen sixty one that I I really began choreographing.

Presenter11:34

Yeah.

Glen Tetley12:19

And you formed your own small company? Very small. Uh Linda Hodes, who's now the artistic director of the Martha Graham Company, was uh

Presenter12:21

Very small.

Glen Tetley12:29

With me, and Robert Powell, who was a very fine dancer in Martha's company.

Presenter12:35

Success was PO

Glen Tetley12:36

Yeah.

Presenter12:36

Uh

Glen Tetley12:36

Ner.

Glen Tetley12:38

When was that first play? That was one of the four. It was the first ballet I did actually. It was because I I built the whole evening around Pierrot Lunaire.

Presenter12:39

That was

Presenter12:40

Well that was one of the four

Presenter12:50

Hence the narrative, Valley.

Presenter12:52

You didn't try to tell stories.

Glen Tetley12:54

No, I didn't. I felt that the the strongest element would be that which was closest to dance itself, the s the thing that you can say in movement that you cannot possibly say in words. And uh I wanted to build a vocabulary for myself and uh

Glen Tetley13:11

I felt it was in pure movement was the strongest way to do that. How long did your people group together?

Glen Tetley13:17

My own company I kept together from nineteen sixty one until nineteen sixty nine. And uh the last year we had a very successful season in New York and tour the United States and a four month tour in Europe. But financially I just couldn't keep the company

Presenter13:34

Your own words, small valley companies suffer from financial anemia.

Glen Tetley13:39

Yeah.

Presenter13:39

Mm.

Glen Tetley13:40

Uh

Presenter13:40

Uh

Glen Tetley13:40

Yeah. You had s

Presenter13:41

Yeah.

Glen Tetley13:41

Stop dancing by now, Hedy.

Glen Tetley13:43

At that point

Glen Tetley13:45

I had not. Uh I mean, sixty nine was the last year I did dance and uh

Glen Tetley13:50

The last performance I did was Piero Lunaire in the Festival of Dubrovnik.

Glen Tetley13:55

And uh I had been asked to become director of the Netherlands Dance Theatre with Hans van Manen. And I felt, well, it was ridiculous to have two companies. So I disbanded my own at that time.

Presenter14:09

I think we'll have record number four now. What will that be?

Glen Tetley14:12

Record number four will be somebody who has been a sustaining factor in my life, Aretha Franklin.

Speaker 214:24

Now I'm no longer now for what I'm living for.

Speaker 214:30

And if I make you happy, I don't need to do more.

Speaker 214:34

Cause you make me feel, you make me feel, you make me feel like an actual one, woman.

Presenter14:50

Aretha Franklin, you make me feel like a natural woman.

Presenter14:54

When did you start working for the for the Ballet Rombert? That they rarely introduced your work in this country, didn't they?

Glen Tetley14:59

Yes. Um I began with Bally Rambert.

Glen Tetley15:04

I believe it's 1965 and Norman Morris who was the director and it was the newly reformed Ballet Rambert, they had put away Coppelia and Giselle and wanted to become, as Netherlands Dance Theatre had, a more contemporary company. Norman Morris asked me to come and stage again Pierre O'Luner.

Speaker 115:04

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 115:22

Here

Glen Tetley15:27

It was a very exciting period for me to come to the Rambera.

Glen Tetley15:31

to feel inside um a company that is the oldest company in Britain and um to be close to

Glen Tetley15:40

Extraordinary people like Madame Rombert.

Presenter15:43

Another rewarding association was with the Stuttgart Ballet, which you took over after John Cranco died. It was the company which, of course, which he had formed and built.

Glen Tetley15:53

The Stuttgart company is a tremendous company of dancers and one that uh when I John invited me when um

Glen Tetley16:03

He had seen some of my work and was very, very fond of my work and he had said, why don't you come and do contemporary works? Because he was doing these larger full evening ballets and uh we would like you here as a as a permanent choreographer.

Glen Tetley16:17

And uh I rather liked that idea. And I did two ballets for them and then uh the tragedy happened that John died and uh

Glen Tetley16:27

Yeah.

Glen Tetley16:28

I felt w I really didn't want to take over the weight of all of that administration, but uh it was a very emotional point and uh I'm glad I did. I'm glad I did.

Presenter16:38

And since you left Stuttgart, you've been the complete freelance, going from company to company and country to country. You you w you are a wanderer.

Glen Tetley16:47

A very select one, directly. How many ballots have you created now? I've never really stopped to count, but I think it's somewhere between fifty and sixty, maybe over that. You still do your bar work every morning?

Presenter16:59

Maybe

Glen Tetley17:03

Have to.

Glen Tetley17:05

Must you never can stop. You you must keep it up.

Presenter17:08

Practically, so that you can demonstrate the holder.

Glen Tetley17:11

Yes, because uh one cannot choreograph sitting in a chair, you cannot choreograph speaking it, you have to do it. Uh and dances very quickly pick up all of the um

Glen Tetley17:22

specific intonation of a a personal movement, you know, so you you really have to move.

Presenter17:29

Another record.

Glen Tetley17:31

The next record.

Glen Tetley17:34

It is Beethoven's String Quartet opus one thirty one played by the Quartetto Italiano.

Presenter18:40

The opening of Beethoven's String Quartet No. 14 in C Sharp Minor, opus one hundred and thirty one, by the Italian Quartette.

Presenter18:49

Now you've just created your first full-length work for the Ballet Rombeur. And uh well this is is a narrative ballet.

Glen Tetley18:57

Absolutely, it is. It's um

Glen Tetley19:00

The Tempest of William Shakespeare, a ballet based upon The Tempest, Whose Music?

Glen Tetley19:06

The music is by Arna Nordheim, who is a Norwegian composer with whom I've

Glen Tetley19:11

Done uh several other ballets.

Glen Tetley19:14

Now f

Presenter19:15

Full-length ballet, the amount of detail, the amount of creation.

Presenter19:19

Must be very daunting. How long did you work on it?

Glen Tetley19:23

It's been a long time. I I've never put this much work into any single project. The Schwetzingen Festival gave me the commission for it four years ago. And uh at that time I was in Stuttgart and I was thinking I would do it for a large company like the Stuttgart. But um in the interim changed my mind completely because it is aside from the splendid mask and the elements and that it's a very intimate work and uh I I'm finding it the right solution for me to do it for a a smaller company, an intimate company like the Rambert. Arna and I began three years ago actually breaking the Tempest down into scenes and discussing how it should be done. I I didn't want to give him instructions. You know, I don't know whether you've ever seen um for instance Petipa's instructions to Tchaikovsky where it's broken down bar by bar. Four bars of loud intro and uh sixteen bars of happy music and uh Tsaikovsky was a great genius.

Presenter20:25

I like film music.

Glen Tetley20:26

Yes, like film music, exactly. But I didn't want to do that with Arna. Uh he has never written that sort of music and I'm not interested in for me choreographically. So I said

Presenter20:26

Yes, like film.

Glen Tetley20:41

We're not going to paraphrase it sentence by sentence because we don't have to. And I said, From you I want a really beautiful musical structure and then I can make the choreographic structure from that. And that's the way we've worked. And you've enjoyed it.

Glen Tetley20:57

I think I've gone through everything that one does in a tempest. Uh

Presenter21:04

Right, record number six.

Glen Tetley21:06

Record number six is Fredrique Vanstad, a young American artist, singing from Rossini Zotello de Canzoni e Preguera.

Presenter22:09

Frederica Von Stada singing the canzona from Rossini's Otello.

Presenter22:16

Now, a naval man, and obviously as a dancer, choreographer,

Presenter22:21

physically agile. I think you'd be rather good as a castaway, wouldn't you look after yourself very well?

Glen Tetley22:27

Yes, I have. I mean I I uh I like to stay active even in uh vacation times.

Presenter22:33

Are you good with your hands? Could you put up some some sort of shelter? Yeah.

Glen Tetley22:37

Yes. You know, coming uh a penniless dancer to New York, you live in things called cold water flats, which uh you have to learn to do everything with your hands.

Speaker 122:43

Uh

Speaker 222:43

Uh

Speaker 122:43

Yeah.

Presenter22:47

Would you try to escape?

Presenter22:49

From the island.

Glen Tetley22:50

I think I eventually would because uh

Glen Tetley22:53

I'm sure I would.

Glen Tetley22:57

Yes, I know about boats. I had a wonderful boat. I just loved it. It was one of those folder boat things where you can strap it on your back, you know, and you open out and you fit all these wood pieces together and snap this uh spine construction down in and presto you have a sailing canoe.

Presenter23:07

Yeah.

Speaker 123:07

Uh

Presenter23:15

Yeah.

Glen Tetley23:15

Where did you take it on the canal? Oh, wonderful trip. Took it down to uh

Glen Tetley23:19

the Mediterranean and sailed all around the island of Elba. It was just, you know, really wonderful. In all of those little beaches that you can't get to by land.

Presenter23:28

Well that is very useful experience for any potential castaway.

Glen Tetley23:31

Yeah.

Presenter23:33

Back to music. What shall we have now?

Glen Tetley23:36

The next record is one I have listened to many, many times, Neil Diamond, an album called Hot August Night, and the song is I Am I Said.

Speaker 223:48

I am Macra.

Speaker 223:55

I am shy.

Speaker 224:03

And I have lost and I can't even say

Speaker 124:03

I have

Speaker 224:15

Even alone this year.

Presenter24:22

Neil Diamond. And now your last record. What have you saved till the end?

Glen Tetley24:27

For the very last one, very beautiful recording, Monteverdi's Selva Morale. And the section that uh I've chosen is from the Gloria.

Glen Tetley24:40

It's um La Damas Day.

Speaker 224:48

Lauda, Loudaus.

Speaker 225:31

She musteve muste.

Presenter25:40

Laudama's Tay from the Gloria.

Presenter25:43

of Monteverdi's Selva Morale.

Presenter25:46

The Ensemble of Lausanne. Well, there are your eight records. If you could only take one of them, which would it be?

Glen Tetley25:53

I would stick with the Motta Verdi.

Presenter25:55

The Monte Verde. Yes. And you're allowed to take one luxury to the island, nothing of any practical use.

Glen Tetley26:01

Well, one thing I would definitely take, which is very luxurious, but it happens to be a bit practical, is a wonderful South American hammock. It's a very special type of hammock. When you get inside, it's it's very stretchy, quite enormous. Uh you flip both sides around you and you're in this wonderful cocoon.

Presenter26:20

Well that sounds luxurious enough to be a luxury. We'll post that. And one book, The Bible and Shakespeare, are already there and we don't like big encyclopedias. But anything else?

Glen Tetley26:22

Luxury will post there.

Glen Tetley26:32

One book that I have gone back to many, many times and still will uh is um a book by Colette called Earthly Paradise.

Presenter26:41

Earthly Paradise by Colette, and thank you, Glenn Tedley, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Glen Tetley26:48

Thank you for inviting me very much. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 126:58

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.