Sir Robert Mayer

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

Our Castaway this week is a patron of music who for over fifty years has provided symphony concerts for young people.

Presenter0:38

He's still hard at it, and this very day is celebrating his one hundredth birthday. It's Sir Robert Mayer.

Presenter0:47

Now, Sir Robert, going back to the beginning, your love of music showed itself very early. I believe you were playing the piano at the age of five, is that right?

Sir Robert Mayer0:55

Correct.

Sir Robert Mayer0:56

I played with one finger.

Sir Robert Mayer0:58

But it was sufficient education for better things to come. So my parents took me to the conservatoire in the little town I was born.

Sir Robert Mayer1:08

called Mannheim, and so I became a pupil of the conservatoire when I was six years old.

Sir Robert Mayer1:14

When I was eight years old, I was chosen at the annual concert to play perform.

Presenter1:20

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer1:21

My aunt and cousins and whatnot thought the second Mozart had come to earth, but my father, who was a brewer and very sensible man, he took different views and says, if the boy really has got talent, it'd be a wonderful thing in his life if music was to become his great love.

Sir Robert Mayer1:39

but not his profession.

Sir Robert Mayer1:41

But believe it or not, in those days you you actually did what your father told you to do. The feeling of reverence was expressed in that way. So I made up my mind I was going to be a great amateur musician.

Sir Robert Mayer1:55

But my dream was to make sufficient money to live somewhere then in a remote place and have living at the same time a quartet with me.

Sir Robert Mayer2:04

But chamber message to the rest of my days. As it happens, something else happens.

Sir Robert Mayer2:09

But at the age of eight years old, I played the Beethoven sonata called the Spring Sonata in F.

Sir Robert Mayer2:17

And that's I've chosen it not only for that reason, but also because the people whose records you will be hearing are Bush and Serkin, who came to England in nineteen twenty five.

Sir Robert Mayer2:30

And they became one of our most intimate friends. And Busch and Sergeant have meant so much in musical life, the world, all over, since then.

Presenter3:42

The opening of the Beethoven Spring Sonata in F Major, Adolphe Busch and Rudolph Serke.

Presenter3:49

Now, I believe you once played for Brahms.

Sir Robert Mayer3:52

Well

Sir Robert Mayer3:53

Add a few words to nearly.

Sir Robert Mayer3:56

Because

Sir Robert Mayer3:57

In the in the days wh I'm dealing with now, which best part of a hundred years ago, musical journalism was divided between pro-grams and provagner. I think the provagner had the majority, but my teacher was a pro-gram side.

Sir Robert Mayer4:14

And he invited Brahms to come to Mannheim, and the concert laid on a concert for him.

Sir Robert Mayer4:21

Now, I was a runner-up only.

Sir Robert Mayer4:24

But a boy two years older than I, he got the chance playing before Browns. The world had come to an end for me, but the director of the conservatoire, seeing my misery, he says, all right, Robert, I'll give you a chance. You'll be sitting during the concert next to the great man. And that is the fact is that Browns said, next time I'm here, you'll be playing for me. I was the proudest moment in my life, and I'll never forget it.

Presenter4:52

How do you remember, Brams? He was a kindly man.

Sir Robert Mayer4:55

Oh, very kind man. He looked exactly as a picture his big stomach.

Presenter5:00

Yes, all those whiskers.

Sir Robert Mayer5:00

All those whiskers beard and all this, he had all the bonham of a very, very human person.

Sir Robert Mayer5:07

It was lovely to me.

Presenter5:09

Now what's your second record to be?

Sir Robert Mayer5:12

There's a gentleman called Wagner who forced the wonderful work, probably his greatest work, with the Master Singers. Now the Master Singers meant something in my life, because when I was nine years old,

Presenter5:14

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer5:25

The director of the Conservatoire said you are now ready to get the introduction to harmony theory.

Sir Robert Mayer5:33

And I said, How? He said, You follow me. There was sitting at the piano, the great famous Weingartner, who was then conductor in Mannheim.

Sir Robert Mayer5:44

And he said to me and the other boys who stood round him, I now give you the first introduction to what is called modulation, how to go from one key to another. What did he do to introduce me to that? He sat down and played the Meistersinger overture. So the Meistersinger has always got a special meaning in my life, which I never forget. Now, also, I've chosen now the quintet, because for me that is the most moving part of the great work.

Presenter7:15

The quintet from the third act of Wagner's The Master Singers

Presenter7:19

Elizabeth Schumann, Lauritz Melchior, Gladys Parr, Ben Williams and Friedrich Shaw and the London Symphony Orchestra was conducted by Sir John Barbie Rawley.

Presenter7:29

Sir Robert, what job did you do when you left school?

Sir Robert Mayer7:32

I went to business when I was fifteen years old.

Sir Robert Mayer7:36

And it was a a lace business above all things, which, however, gave me the first innings of order.

Sir Robert Mayer7:46

which taught me how to work hard.

Sir Robert Mayer7:49

Now, when my father decided, and my mother decided, I should go to England.

Sir Robert Mayer7:55

out of English lessons. So there was an Irishman who taught English in Mannheim.

Sir Robert Mayer8:01

And I went to him at half past six in the morning. I left my house after six o'clock.

Sir Robert Mayer8:07

I had my English lesson twice a week, and then went to business, and the business lasted until nearly seven o'clock. I went home, had something to eat, and then had some more lessons. So I worked

Sir Robert Mayer8:19

Oh, more than I can tell you more than more than units allow people to work here today.

Presenter8:24

Dave

Presenter8:25

Why did your father want you to come to England?

Sir Robert Mayer8:25

Why do

Sir Robert Mayer8:27

I was a Jew.

Sir Robert Mayer8:29

And Jews in those days in Germany

Sir Robert Mayer8:32

couldn't become either judges or become generals or anything like that. They could t take up subsidiary positions. And my father said, I won't allow my children to bring up with the second class citizens in in central New England, and thank God you did that.

Presenter8:48

Did you stay in in the lace business?

Sir Robert Mayer8:51

Oh, far from it. See, when I was seventeen years old, I w came to England.

Sir Robert Mayer8:57

And then I came to England. I first was first part in my my family's finance business and that lasted one year I didn't like it. Then I became a metalman. Let's have another record. What's the third?

Sir Robert Mayer9:11

Well now I've had three brothers.

Sir Robert Mayer9:14

One of the second one was what Brown Bennett wrote a book about, the card. Oh, yeah. When he came to England, it was two years after me.

Sir Robert Mayer9:26

Became a friend of the theater manager of Daly's and Gaties, a man called George Edwards. And George Edwards said, Ernest, I'm going to Vienna tomorrow night. Will you come along? Well, Ernest always went along anywhere, was good food, with life such as we had in Vienna. So they heard 30 different plays and operators. And amongst the 30 numbers was one by an unknown musician called Lehau.

Sir Robert Mayer9:57

and my my brother, as quick as lightning, spotted that as the winner.

Sir Robert Mayer10:02

He induced George Edwards to buy the rights of the merry widow to perform in England. My brother then found Lily Elsie to to be the merry widow.

Sir Robert Mayer10:14

And from there my brother became very famous in theatrical world.

Sir Robert Mayer10:20

So I clang on to his coattail and that's why I've chosen the Meta Window Now, because it opened a new window in my life, you see.

Speaker 410:31

Di tour, dormic zerit, Ich du salam, rosie by God and a Uh

Speaker 410:49

Dodo juj logo rouvre zilas mi perges d'as toil Arvin champani die avoi mi chapal ul gisa ko de piece mida le desert sis.

Sir Robert Mayer10:58

That's certainly better.

Speaker 411:20

Do you

Speaker 411:24

Goodbye, goodbye.

Presenter11:30

Nicolai Gedder singing I'm Going to Maximes from The Merry Widow.

Presenter11:35

Now you were working in the City of London as a as a dealer in metal, Sir Robert. You began to do very well.

Presenter11:40

In fact, you did exceedingly well. Life was good. You married a musician, a singer, and together you started your enterprise of putting on concerts for children. What gave you the idea?

Sir Robert Mayer11:53

Well, the idea came from my wife really.

Sir Robert Mayer11:56

When the First World War was over,

Sir Robert Mayer11:59

I was engaged by a big producer in America of metals to join them.

Sir Robert Mayer12:05

And we were as it's custom in America, we had to label.

Speaker 412:09

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer12:10

Our labor was music, but she was a professional musician.

Sir Robert Mayer12:14

Veda was a singer and I was known as an amateur.

Sir Robert Mayer12:19

patron of what we like to call it.

Sir Robert Mayer12:21

So we were taken to the various concerts given at the Carnegie Hall.

Sir Robert Mayer12:27

And the concerts which impressed us by the novelty were the concerts which were given by the conductor of the New York Philharmonic called Walter Damros.

Sir Robert Mayer12:37

Walter Damrosch had the idea of introducing young children to best music with Uncle Walter sitting at the piano and first playing the melodies which were going to be played by the orchestra because the orchestra was an unknown quantity for the children, but the piano they understood.

Sir Robert Mayer12:58

And that was the introduction which the people they came largely from Fifth Avenue and Park Avenue and privileged classes heard thanks to Uncle Walter.

Sir Robert Mayer13:09

No.

Sir Robert Mayer13:10

It was jump now ahead, about two years ahead, my wife and I came back to England.

Sir Robert Mayer13:16

And my wife asked me

Sir Robert Mayer13:19

Could you afford

Sir Robert Mayer13:21

to give concerts such as were heard in New York.

Sir Robert Mayer13:24

For children.

Sir Robert Mayer13:26

I said, I'm vastly overpaid by my medical masters. The answer is yes.

Sir Robert Mayer13:31

So having said yes, I had to translate it into action.

Sir Robert Mayer13:36

And where and when was your first concert?

Sir Robert Mayer13:39

In 1923, we chose the Central Westminster as our first jumping off place. Now we bombarded all our friends to bring along their children. And there they were. There was Victor Gollands, there was Willie Coyne. They all came along.

Sir Robert Mayer13:57

With a tune.

Sir Robert Mayer13:58

and from there we started.

Sir Robert Mayer14:00

The first concept was given, incidentally, by Sir Agent Bolt.

Sir Robert Mayer14:05

And from there my social conscience pricked me. What about the poor?

Sir Robert Mayer14:10

So we said, All right, why not the poor? Nobody's poorer than the people who live in the eastern London.

Sir Robert Mayer14:17

So we went to Peavis Palace, which was along the Milan Road somewhere, and we said, All right, we'll go the whole hog.

Sir Robert Mayer14:26

We include in our programme a Bach concerto for violin. The leader of the orchestra was the solist in that. Now this, you must imagine, A, these children had never heard or seen an orchestra before. They never knew music of the kind.

Sir Robert Mayer14:43

And yet, we played a bar concerto, a movement of bar concerto, and you could feel pin drop.

Sir Robert Mayer14:50

That gave us enormous courage.

Sir Robert Mayer14:52

So the score, to make a long story short,

Sir Robert Mayer14:56

The score was We started in nineteen twenty three with three concerts in the western end of London.

Sir Robert Mayer15:02

We ended up by 938 with sixty five concerts in twenty five different centres in Britain.

Presenter15:09

Yes, and you'd given up your business in order to concentrate on the children's content.

Sir Robert Mayer15:13

Right, on the children's concept.

Presenter15:15

I think it's time we had another record. What shall we have now?

Sir Robert Mayer15:18

We'll have now the most short simponia consultante in Y flat.

Sir Robert Mayer15:23

which were violent and beautiful.

Sir Robert Mayer15:25

Because not only.

Sir Robert Mayer15:27

Because I think it is one of the most wonderful compositions ever written.

Sir Robert Mayer15:33

But also because when Sargent

Sir Robert Mayer15:36

was conductor not only of our children's concerts, but also of the Cortus Arsenal concerts, which was started in 1928.

Sir Robert Mayer15:44

He introduced that work to the British public.

Sir Robert Mayer15:48

So it has a special significance in my life and I hope you'll enjoy it.

Presenter16:47

The Andante, the second movement from Mozart's Sinfonia Concertanti, with Jascha Heifitz and William Primrose as the soloists.

Presenter16:56

Now, your children's concerts have been going, what, over fifty years. That must mean you're in your your third generation of children in in your audiences.

Sir Robert Mayer17:05

Yes.

Presenter17:05

I

Sir Robert Mayer17:06

I did know.

Presenter17:07

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer17:07

When I was ordered hoo-ha about my celebration.

Sir Robert Mayer17:11

I get letters from all kinds of people who never knew it existed.

Sir Robert Mayer17:15

I don't say that with pride, but only to give people courage. What I can do, others can do too. Anyhow.

Sir Robert Mayer17:24

Uh, to come back, what am I come come back to now?

Sir Robert Mayer17:27

You you tell me, Roy, what should I talk to you about now?

Presenter17:31

Well, we have got

Presenter17:33

Four more records for you to choose. What's the next one?

Sir Robert Mayer17:37

When I when I heard

Sir Robert Mayer17:39

Uh unfortunately died I don't know how many years ago, Tisapara do the very requirement.

Sir Robert Mayer17:46

and do the outstanding thing, which is the Diusiere.

Sir Robert Mayer17:50

I couldn't sleep all night. It was so exciting.

Sir Robert Mayer17:54

It's one of the most wonderful dramatic things ever written, so that is my choice now, the very requiem the Diosiri.

Presenter19:02

The opening of the Diesiere from the Verdi Requiem, De Sabata conducting the orchestra and chorus of the Scala Milan.

Presenter19:12

Now about twenty years ago, Zirobert, you started an offshoot from your children's concerts, an organization called Youth and Music. Now what was the purpose of that?

Sir Robert Mayer19:21

I'd done something for children.

Sir Robert Mayer19:24

But I'd done nothing but adolescence.

Sir Robert Mayer19:26

That's the most critical stage in a young people's lives. So I started the thing.

Sir Robert Mayer19:33

But it was partly influenced by something which happened on the continent.

Sir Robert Mayer19:38

So, by 1954, I'd managed to get all these people who were interested with youth and music into one room.

Sir Robert Mayer19:47

And so you don't know it yet, this day a new baby has been born.

Sir Robert Mayer19:51

We call youth and music.

Sir Robert Mayer19:53

So it started off naturally with consonants.

Sir Robert Mayer19:57

With youth concerts, the only distinction was that the conductor owned a conductor, they didn't act as compell.

Sir Robert Mayer20:05

Now see there's a gap somewhere. What about opera?

Sir Robert Mayer20:09

So

Sir Robert Mayer20:11

I said we must make a commencement with this opera.

Sir Robert Mayer20:16

So that now young people have got the chance, and thousands of them have the chance, of hearing these great works done in the concert hall and the opera house at

Sir Robert Mayer20:29

Much reduced prices.

Presenter20:31

Good. Well that brings us now to record number six.

Sir Robert Mayer20:35

Well

Sir Robert Mayer20:36

I've chosen the

Sir Robert Mayer20:39

Schubert, the sonata in B-flat, posthumous, played by Artu Schnag.

Presenter20:44

He was a great friend of yours, wasn't he?

Sir Robert Mayer20:46

Yes.

Presenter20:46

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer20:47

Schnauber came to England in 1925.

Sir Robert Mayer20:51

And he gave her the title Oksupa Sonatus then.

Sir Robert Mayer20:55

Schubert's sonatas were then practically unknown.

Sir Robert Mayer20:59

Believe it or not.

Sir Robert Mayer21:01

No.

Sir Robert Mayer21:02

I think

Sir Robert Mayer21:03

In history

Sir Robert Mayer21:04

Schnaub will be revered.

Sir Robert Mayer21:06

not only as a superlative

Sir Robert Mayer21:09

musical thinker and player, but also for having raised to a level of programmes.

Sir Robert Mayer21:16

From something he forced, in fact, others who were nearly as good as he, or perhaps better even, Bachaus and others, to play things such as Schnauble chose to play.

Presenter22:29

Arta Schnabel, playing part of the first movement of the Schubert sonata in B flat, D nine six O. Now you're a great concert goer, aren't you? Most evenings you're in the concert hall.

Sir Robert Mayer22:41

Oh.

Sir Robert Mayer22:42

Not every night. As far as my my physical uh condition per permits, I like to be there. And they're very kind because they've got in the in the concert halls and the opera house and now now when I'm coming they've got a wheelchair for me and I'm carried about like a pagoda, see.

Presenter23:00

Now we've got record number seven. What's that?

Sir Robert Mayer23:03

The Bartock Conservato for Orchestra.

Sir Robert Mayer23:07

Last year

Sir Robert Mayer23:09

We were proud to present.

Sir Robert Mayer23:12

to New British and Britain England.

Sir Robert Mayer23:14

The World Junesmusical World Orchestra.

Sir Robert Mayer23:17

And that world orchestra is composed, selected from about thirty or more different countries. And in each country we try to s to find a few outstanding young musicians around the age of twenty two or twenty three or something like that to form that.

Sir Robert Mayer23:36

Now they got together last year.

Sir Robert Mayer23:38

We practiced for about twelve days every day.

Sir Robert Mayer23:43

And when they appeared, as they did, thanks to the kindness of the Pri Busier and my friend Robert Ponsonby, they appeared at the Proms.

Sir Robert Mayer23:54

And they were woe.

Sir Robert Mayer23:56

and Peter Bartle.

Presenter24:57

The opening of the last movement of the Bartock Concerto for orchestra played by the Jeanesse Musicale World Orchestra. And now we come to your last record. What's that to be?

Sir Robert Mayer25:08

The last one.

Sir Robert Mayer25:10

I again give to Schubert.

Sir Robert Mayer25:13

And I chose a song called Undeal Music to Music.

Sir Robert Mayer25:19

Because I think

Sir Robert Mayer25:21

It's fitting an occasion like this.

Sir Robert Mayer25:24

that the end note should be to music.

Sir Robert Mayer25:27

Because after all, that's the whole thing is about.

Speaker 425:39

Why did

Speaker 425:53

I beat us and babies.

Speaker 425:58

Hid a Christmas

Speaker 426:13

Oh father.

Speaker 426:20

Lost the beach in a wider surface.

Presenter26:30

Schubert's Andy Musique recorded by Lotte Lehmann in nineteen fifty one.

Presenter26:36

Now, Sir Robert, if you could only take one record instead of eight, which would it be?

Sir Robert Mayer26:41

Record I'd take would be the last one.

Presenter26:45

And every castaway is allowed to take one luxury to the island. Now, what have you chosen?

Sir Robert Mayer26:51

Now then, what's an old man who suffers from arthritis?

Sir Robert Mayer26:56

We saw this from

Sir Robert Mayer26:57

Bad hearing. Is he going to take with him? I wish I could take with me a new hip.

Sir Robert Mayer27:04

A new pair of ears.

Presenter27:04

Two priorities.

Sir Robert Mayer27:06

But you see, the trouble is, the medical profession has made up its mind the man hundred years old is not going to have a new weapon.

Sir Robert Mayer27:15

What can I do with them? I can't force them.

Sir Robert Mayer27:18

I can't I can't get to new get a new hearing aid,'cause uh these things bust in my ear. I hate to blot the thing.

Sir Robert Mayer27:28

I have a compromise.

Sir Robert Mayer27:30

Which is

Sir Robert Mayer27:32

I take with me

Sir Robert Mayer27:33

A failing, which my friends always supply me with when I stay with them for weekends, I take a ton of grapes. They must be free of pips, because otherwise they don't feel that.

Presenter27:44

Because otherwise it's hard they don't

Sir Robert Mayer27:47

Yeah. Alright.

Presenter27:47

Right.

Presenter27:48

We'll arrange to get a small vineyard there that blooms all the year round.

Sir Robert Mayer27:50

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer27:53

Good.

Presenter27:53

And you're allowed one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare as conventional choices, and we don't like big encyclopedias.

Sir Robert Mayer28:00

You'll be surprised what I'm going to take. Not a printed book.

Sir Robert Mayer28:05

But the book which was started by my wife in 1923.

Sir Robert Mayer28:10

a business book and the first entry in was Bartorock.

Presenter28:14

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer28:14

Use the first entry.

Presenter28:14

Yeah.

Sir Robert Mayer28:15

And then as a sequence, all these musicians of the day, they came to our house. It will be the best reminder of a life which I spent with her, which I'm glad to say has not been spent in vain, because I have done something for the country which allowed for Livia. I've interpreted and I see the miracle happening that new musical Britain has now gradually emerging. And this book will be a reminder of my contribution to it.

Presenter28:46

A Book to Treasure. And thank you, Sir Robert Mayer, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs, and on behalf of all of us who as children attended your concerts, and that included me, happy birthday.

Sir Robert Mayer28:59

Thank you very much indeed.

Presenter29:01

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 329:09

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.