Robert Powell

Speaker 30:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy nine, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week our castaway is the actor Robert Powell.

Presenter0:34

Robert, you began your career in radio, didn't you?

Speaker 20:36

Yeah.

Presenter0:36

Hmm. I did more years ago than I care to remember. Somebody asked me the other day

Presenter0:41

and I suddenly realized that I was talking about twenty two years ago.

Presenter0:44

You must have been very, very young.

Presenter0:47

Oh yes.

Robert Powell0:48

Very well.

Presenter0:51

In double figures. I started in uh children's art doing

Presenter0:55

Children's plays when I was at school. How did you get into that?

Presenter0:59

I spent most of my time at school.

Presenter1:02

In we had a little theatre there, and we had a dramatic society, and I spent all my time not working, but acting.

Presenter1:10

And somebody saw me and dragged me along to the BBC and I did a little audition for Trevor Hill and Herbert Smith up there. And that was it. You are a Lancastrian? Yes, I was born in Salford.

Presenter1:19

How much does music mean to you?

Presenter1:22

Nearly all one's memories are associated with mu music, or music brings back, or music is the only thing that in fact sparks off.

Presenter1:30

genuine, deep emotion about something that's past.

Presenter1:33

Um I play music all the time. Uh fairly Catholic though. I mean it ranges from the only thing I don't play is punk.

Presenter1:43

Do you have any musical skill yourself, to play an instrument? Oh, good Lord, no. Um.

Presenter1:48

I I sort of play the harmonica. My friends say sort of. I think I'm very good portable music. It's a good thing to play. You haven't gotten lug anything about, like a double bass.

Robert Powell1:52

Very good.

Robert Powell1:55

Uh

Speaker 21:55

I'm not sure.

Presenter1:58

No, it no no, it gets a bit rusty, that's the only problem. What's the first record?

Presenter2:03

The first record is

Presenter2:05

Janacek, uh Sinfonietta by Janacek.

Presenter2:09

All the music I've I've chosen I I realize by accident is

Presenter2:13

Nearly all of it.

Presenter2:15

is related to my adolescence for some strange reason.

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And Janacek was the first piece of inverted commas.

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classical music which I

Presenter2:25

grew very fond of as a child.

Presenter2:28

I used to stick it on our grammar phone and turn it up to full volume and stick my ear next to the speaker. I'm amazed that I'm not deaf by now. Was it one that you brought into the house, or was it already there? No, I brought it in, and I don't know why. I only liked the cover. I had no idea who Janasek was, as he Janasek, or whatever his name was, when I I was about twelve.

Presenter3:48

Piano Czech's Sinfoniette played by the Czech Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter3:53

Now, you did in fact start studying law. Why law? For a very simple reason. I'd read classics at school. I did Latin, Greek and ancient history. Everybody said I must get a degree. I was a fool to become an actor. I had to get something behind me. I didn't want to continue with classics, because I didn't enjoy it that much. And the only thing that I was qualified to read without any previous qualification was law.

Presenter4:16

We all started from scratch at that.

Presenter4:18

So I dived straight into law. I don't know why. How far did you get? A couple of years, that's all. Were you doing amateur theatre work, anything of that sort? I was running the uh University Dramatic Society. I was writing, directing reviews. This is the reason why I only lasted a couple of years, I guess.

Presenter4:35

So it was an actor's life for you. Off you went. Yes. Uh had you got got any money to fall back on or or?

Presenter4:41

You will rarely take your chance.

Robert Powell4:41

Really taking a chance.

Presenter4:45

It's it's amazing, isn't it? The pride of a of a

Presenter4:47

An adolescent.

Presenter4:49

refused any help at all from my parents. I insisted that

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As I was going against their wishes in becoming an actor in the first place, that either I did it on my own or I didn't do it at all. How long did it take you to get your first job?

Presenter5:02

Well, I wrote around to three repertory companies and got a response from one.

Presenter5:08

In Stoke-on-Trent, Theatre in the Randair, and I went down one Saturday and had an interview.

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I got a job for six weeks um three weeks.

Presenter5:17

Rehearsal in three week playing in King Lear as an A S M and Spear Carrier.

Presenter5:21

Now, there's a snag here playing in the round. You can't get a prompt.

Presenter5:25

Oh no, no, that was a I didn't actually need one because I didn't have any lights.

Presenter5:31

Oh, point taken.

Presenter5:34

However, oh no, I did have a line. Yes, I played Gloucester's Old Man, as he's referred to in the script. Yes. Um I did have a line. I can't remember what it was now.

Presenter5:42

Um but uh after after we'd we'd opened um Lear, the director asked me to stay on in the company. So um

Speaker 25:51

Uh

Presenter5:52

At that point, everything was forgotten and I became a

Presenter5:56

Professional actor. At that point, let's have your second record. What is it?

Presenter6:01

It's Miles Davis playing summer time.

Presenter6:06

And this brings back the memories of of my early adolescence, of sitting up until dawn in a bus shelter.

Presenter6:16

close to my home, watching the sun rise over the docks.

Presenter6:20

Why? Smoking gold was and drinking black coffee. I don't know,'cause we were such phony intellectuals. We all I mean, we oh, we were. We used to talk about

Presenter6:32

Um Dahlian.

Presenter6:35

Uh it I d my mind boggles to think of this lunatic things we used to talk about. Anyway, but it it it makes me laugh every time I hear this,'cause this was one of the records um that we used to play a lot. We thought we knew a lot about jazz in those days.

Presenter7:18

Miles Davis playing Gershwin's Summertime to remind you of Darley.

Presenter7:25

What happened after, Stephen?

Presenter7:27

I did what everybody does. I headed off for the smoke. You were making the onslaught on London a little early in your career.

Robert Powell7:31

So you're making

Presenter7:34

14 months? I suppose that's all right. Had you an agent, contacts, anything like that? No, none at all.

Robert Powell7:39

Ignore.

Presenter7:41

So I just wandered off bright eyed and bushy tailed, expecting everybody to say

Presenter7:47

Here's Robert Powell. What an amazing actor. But unfortunately they didn't.

Presenter7:51

Um in fact, very few people took any notice at all. Until.

Presenter7:56

Well, I did this very strange show at the Arts for Brian Epstein, called Smashing Day, written by Alan Plater. Strange only inasmuch as another actor and I wrote the music for it and played it on harmonica and guitar.

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Which we'd done in rep and he'd seen it and he'd brought it down to London. I must admit that um my associate did.

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ninety eight percent of it. I sort of hummed a few bars here and there. Said, How does this sound? Where did you move on to? Uh I got a job at the Royal Court and uh as far as I was aware, I broke all existing records in equity by understudying fifty seven parts.

Presenter8:32

You want to show?

Presenter8:35

Did you play em all? Uh no, I played my own six, which I had to play, and then one night somebody was ill, so I played his eight as well, so I played fourteen.

Presenter8:44

The Understudy rehearsals for that were quite funny. Um I was the only understudy and had to play everything.

Presenter8:50

And I'd walk in in the afternoon and the director would say, Okay, uh Robert, um, what do you want to be? Do you want to be the whole Polish army this afternoon? Or?

Presenter9:00

What on earth was the play? It was uh Jarret's Hou Bourois. Ah, yes, yes.

Presenter9:06

Were you able to stay in London now, or did you go off to the provinces? No, it it was becoming very difficult. I there was no work at all. So I

Robert Powell9:09

Did I

Presenter9:14

Wandered off.

Presenter9:15

to Scarborough for Alan Ayckbourne um who was a mate, I knew him.

Presenter9:20

And I did a summer season there, then I from went from there to the octagon of Bolton when that opened, and I did a six months there.

Presenter9:29

It was that period, in fact, that

Presenter9:31

Almost certainly

Presenter9:33

was the growth of my own personal confidence as an actor, so that when I came back to London I actually got a few jobs. You did in fact land a leading part in in a very successful television series.

Presenter9:46

Yes, in Doomwatch. Doomwatch, uh s a spended series, attempts to stop mankind from committing suicide in various ways, a different different way every week. At its time it was in it was quite incredible. We were ahead of the news sometimes.

Robert Powell9:51

Dang is

Robert Powell9:54

Hmm.

Presenter9:59

Headlines were following the programmes. Well, you did a series of thirteen. You were really doing awfully well, and then the programme came back for another thirteen, but you didn't come back with it.

Presenter10:09

Mm-hmm.

Presenter10:11

Well, I'd done thirty and I'd had enough. Um

Presenter10:14

I was twenty five, I think, at the time. I had no commitments, I wasn't married, I was only answerable to myself, and I wanted to do other things.

Presenter10:25

This is Sir Rayfor Ralph Richardson reading a poem by Keats, When I Have Fears. And the reason?

Presenter10:32

What is twofold?

Presenter10:33

Keats is my favorite poet.

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and Richardson

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For me.

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is The Magician of the Theatre.

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When I have fears that I may cease to be Before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain,

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Before high pilot books in character

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Hold, like rich garners, the full ripened grain

Presenter11:00

When I behold upon the night starred face Huge cloudy symbols of a high romance,

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And think that I may never live to trace Their shadows with the magic hand of chance.

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And when I feel fair creature of an hour,

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that I shall never look upon thee more.

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Never have relish in the fairy power Of unreflecting love.

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Then on the shore of the wide world I stand alone

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And sing.

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Till love

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And fame.

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to nothingness.

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Do sick.

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Sir Rafe Richardson Keats's lines, When I Have Fears. Now your career with Ken Russell. Ah.

Presenter11:57

Yes.

Presenter11:58

How long have we got?

Presenter12:02

What was the first?

Presenter12:04

The first one was Marla, which we did oh about four years ago I think. And you were on camera practically the whole time. That was a pretty wearing part, wasn't it?

Presenter12:12

That one was, yes, for for for a lot of reasons. Um he's a fairly wearing director to work with and he's reputed to eat actors. I mean, how did you get on with him? Did you establish a relationship pretty quickly? We played cat and mouse for a couple of days. He didn't know who I was, I didn't know who he was. Um

Robert Powell12:18

Thanks for watching.

Presenter12:28

But I

Presenter12:29

I noticed that Ken's obsession with his work

Presenter12:32

meant that he was giving a hundred per cent the whole time, and it seemed to me only fair if I did the same. Even if you make mistakes, as long as you're trying your hardest, he's perfectly happy.

Presenter12:42

He gets very unhappy if somebody slacks. That's that's where the reputation comes from.

Presenter12:47

But uh we got on very well.

Presenter12:49

And you did another one for him.

Robert Powell12:49

Venue

Speaker 212:49

Yeah.

Presenter12:50

Yes, I did Tommy the following year, which was very funny. He just rang me up and said, Would you like to play Tommy's Dad in my next picture? And I said, I knew the music. I said, I'd love to.

Presenter12:59

He said, It's just a favour, he said, because it's um five minutes screen time, seven days it'll take to shoot. I said, Oh, fine, terrific He said, Seven days over eleven weeks. Oh, fine, yeah So I said, Ah

Presenter13:12

So we worked out a deal, and eventually I was on the film for twenty six weeks.

Presenter13:16

Still with five-minute screen time? Oh, still with five-minute screen time, yes. It just went on. I was first on and last off. Just as well you liked the music.

Presenter13:25

Record number four.

Presenter13:26

Record number four. Well

Presenter13:28

I couldn't go on a desert island without Marla. He's come to mean quite a lot to me these days.

Presenter13:35

When I actually read reviews of Mahler's music, for a thousandth of a second I feel proud.

Presenter13:41

Now how about that? That's a s very bizarre sensation.

Presenter13:45

He wrote it, I didn't.

Presenter13:47

Um symphony number five, the fourth movement.

Presenter14:52

The opening of the fourth movement of Mahler's Fifth Symphony.

Presenter14:56

Heitink, conducting in the Concert Gebar Orchestra.

Presenter15:00

Well, what's the next highlight?

Presenter15:03

For me it was a in the beginning of seventy five I did a T V serial for B B C Two of uh Looking for Clancy, which is a very strange I've never done this before in my life. I I got the script. It wasn't sent to me. It was sent to my agent.

Presenter15:16

and he gave it to me for another part.

Presenter15:19

And I read it and I said, No, I don't want to do that part, I want to do the main part.

Presenter15:23

And he said, Oh, you can't do that,'cause it's being offered to somebody else and anyway it wouldn't suit you.

Presenter15:28

So I said, okay, fine. Well, I don't want to do the other part. And I met the director.

Presenter15:31

Who I knew?

Presenter15:33

And I said, I want to play that part, and I can play it.

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And he fought

Presenter15:39

various people at the BBC to allow me to do it and I did it.

Presenter15:43

But it's just strange how I've never actually ever felt that way about a television show before. We did that, then I did, um

Presenter15:50

Oh, my it's my own favorite piece of theatre when I did Travesties for the Royal Shakespeare Company. Yes, the Tom Stopper. Oh, yes. Which really was the beginning of of of a whacking three years, wasn't it? Yes, because it was while I was actually doing that and performing it that

Presenter16:04

An Italian director came along with a small part in a an epic that he was making. Ah, yes. Yes, we'll deal with that in a moment. Just a word or two about Stoppard's travesties. It must have been a tremendously difficult play to learn. I mean, it's such a flow, such

Speaker 216:08

Yes, dude.

Presenter16:17

Yes, it is. It's the comparison is to music. It's very strange. Tom writes so precisely that once you hit the rhythm you can remember the lines. Because each word connects later on, four bars later, with another one, which is four bars later on with another one. And once you catch them, and once you read them and know where they are, funnily enough it all comes. Yes, the rhythm takes you along.

Presenter16:38

I mean, he is one of the greatest um wordsmiths. Write this part that you mentioned casually.

Presenter16:46

The part that one might term the the part of all time.

Presenter16:50

Uh yes. I mean it's the part that no actor in his right mind would ever want to play.

Presenter16:55

And it's the part that no actor can really turn down once he's been asked to do it, and thank God it doesn't actually come up.

Presenter17:02

That often. Well, let's stop hedging. This was Jesus Christ. Did you hesitate before accepting him? Oh, very much so, yes.

Presenter17:08

You devised a a simple acting trick which was very effective in that role.

Presenter17:14

Yes, when it when faced with playing cheesers, you I mean, uh, wh where do you start? How do you play him? I can't walk six inches off the ground, I can't there's nothing I can do. Um I'm just an ordinary mortal.

Presenter17:27

and I discovered that

Presenter17:29

After a lot of thought

Presenter17:31

I discovered that I could do something which other actors didn't seem to be able to do, which was to keep my eyes open for three or four minutes at a time without blinking, even in the brightest light.

Presenter17:39

And I thought about it, and I thought about the thread between the eye and the person who is watching.

Presenter17:46

And then every time you blink, that thread for a thousandth of a second is broken.

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So I decided not to break it.

Presenter17:52

to maintain it throughout the whole film and

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It just in some way was a trick that

Presenter17:58

Set.

Presenter17:59

this particular man apart from the other men. The crucifixion sequence must have been terribly harrowing to do.

Presenter18:06

Yes, indeed it was. It took about five months to shoot in fact, uh on and off. I was always threatened by Franco if I misbehaved that I would go back up on the cross. Franco Zephrelli? Yes. Um.

Presenter18:18

And we were very dependent on bad weather to shoot it. He wanted a certain heavy clouds behind.

Presenter18:24

I remember one particular day.

Presenter18:26

He s set the camera. I was on the cross and we'd been doing been working all day and I've been up there for many hours.

Presenter18:32

And we'd been shooting little bits and pieces, and suddenly behind my head Franco had obviously seen something in the sky that I hadn't didn't know about.

Presenter18:39

And he said, Robert, we're going to turn the camera now. Please, you do the whole of the crucifixion scene. It is wonderful behind your head. It's the most beautiful scene behind your head.

Presenter18:48

So I said, what do you mean the whole thing? He said, the whole thing. Do everything. One after the other.

Presenter18:51

I said, including the death. He said, yes, and including the death. So I did each moment from the crucifixion, one after the other.

Presenter18:58

and finally arrived at the moment when I was about to die.

Presenter19:02

And

Presenter19:03

Obviously, to pull myself together I paused.

Presenter19:07

Got myself into it.

Presenter19:08

And suddenly and this is all on film, too, somewhere in the archives, the voice from behind camera goes

Presenter19:16

Go on, Robert. Die, die, die, die, die!

Presenter19:20

Oh dear.

Presenter19:22

Somewhere in the archives of ITC.

Presenter19:25

And since then two good commercial films. Hmm, yes, The Four Feathers and The Thirty Nine Steps. Yes, now, why did you choose The Four Feathers? That that was the fifth version, and Thirty-Nine Steps, this is the third version. It's coincidental that they both happen to appear to be remakes. Plus the New Testament, of course, which has also been filmed before. Yes, it has, not quite yes, in quite the same way.

Speaker 219:42

Good.

Robert Powell19:42

Yeah.

Presenter19:47

But um all the recent work I'd done have been very heavy.

Presenter19:51

and very downbeat and a bit depressing.

Presenter19:54

And somebody came up with something where I could ride horses and wave swords about and shoot guns.

Presenter19:59

At the Fuzzy Wuzzies.

Presenter20:01

So I said, Fine, I'll do it And it was a it was a nice script. Yes, and fun to do. Oh, great fun to do I just in the desert riding horses. I'd never done on any of that before.

Presenter20:11

Plenty of bang bang. Oh, wonderful. Not very much kiss, kiss. Lots of bang bang. And and what about uh thirty nine steps? Thirty nine steps is very similar story really. Um again, I didn't do anything after Four Feathers. I took another break and sat back and

Presenter20:27

A friend of mine who produced Thirty Nine Steps came up with a script which he had, asked me to read it.

Presenter20:32

And I loved it. It's a it's a wonderful original script. It bears no relation whatsoever to Hitchcock's version of the same story, or to Ralph Thomas's version of the same story.

Presenter20:41

Both of which are

Presenter20:43

Other inventions. Hm, um thanking Buchan very little.

Presenter20:48

So we've done our own thing. We've we've put it back into nineteen fourteen.

Presenter20:52

and gone closer to the book, I think.

Presenter20:55

and made a completely new version. Good, good.

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Lot of fun.

Presenter21:00

Number five.

Presenter21:01

Number five.

Presenter21:03

This man I think that I'm about to is Bob Dylan.

Presenter21:05

who I think more than anybody else in my childhood probably is the greatest single influence.

Presenter21:11

on my thinking, on my music, on on anything.

Presenter21:14

That was when I was a kid.

Presenter21:16

And the the song I'd like is um Don't Think Twice, It's All Right.

Robert Powell21:20

Well, it ain't no use sitting wonder why, baby.

Robert Powell21:26

Maybe you don't know by now.

Robert Powell21:29

And it ain't no use to sit and wonder why baby.

Robert Powell21:35

It'll never do somehow.

Robert Powell21:38

When your rooster crows at the break of dawn

Robert Powell21:43

Look out your window an' I'll be gone

Robert Powell21:48

You're the reason I'm a traveling on

Robert Powell21:52

But don't think twice, it's all right.

Presenter21:55

Bob Dylan, don't think twice, it's all right. Now, you're still planning your career as carefully as you did in the beginning.

Presenter22:03

You want to motivate the whole thing now by going into production, is that right? Hm. Yes. I formed a production company in April.

Presenter22:11

And for the last seven months I've been concentrating on

Presenter22:15

Developing two or three ideas to the point where we can either make them or just get on with them.

Presenter22:22

Yes. We have Derek Marlowe who wrote Dandy and Aspic, uh who's a marvellous novelist. Uh Echoes of Selandine and Goodbye England.

Presenter22:32

He wrote a book called A Single Summer with L. B.

Presenter22:35

which I think, and I know fair amount about it,

Presenter22:38

is the definitive novel about Byron and Shelley in the summer of eighteen sixteen in Geneva. But it is seen through the eyes of Byron's physician, doctor John Polidori, who is a twenty one year old paranoid.

Presenter22:52

Um so it's very funny.

Presenter22:54

And Derek is doing a screenplay for us. Yes. I'm going to play Byron. You al already played Shelley somewhere, haven't you? Yes, on the box. Yes, I did it in for the BBC on Omnibus.

Speaker 223:00

Mm.

Presenter23:05

Well, that's going to be exciting. And you will produce yourself. Yes. That's what we shoot next year. Record number six.

Presenter23:11

This is Stravinsky conducting his own L'Histoire du Solda, the soldier's tale.

Presenter23:17

Again, another very nostalgic piece of music to me. It was the theme music used in a

Presenter23:23

An amateur tape drama that I did when I was a child.

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And

Presenter23:27

with the wheel coming full circle.

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About four years ago I actually played the devil.

Presenter23:33

in a videotape version of

Presenter23:36

Love the story. So here it is.

Presenter24:42

The opening, The Soldier's March, from Strabinski's The Soldier's Tale and The Composer is Conducting.

Presenter24:50

Now about your prowess as a castaway. How would you feel about

Presenter24:54

Being on a desert island climbing trees, making huts. I have a problem, which is I actually am quite good at do it yourself. I can actually sort of knock holes in walls and things.

Speaker 225:03

Mm-hmm.

Presenter25:04

But I'm not very imaginative. I I tend to lack the gift for lateral thought. I tend to I've been trained very logically, and unfortunately it it precludes a certain flair, I think. It might mean that the hut wouldn't fall down.

Presenter25:19

But it'd just take me about five years to build it. Would you try to escape?

Presenter25:25

I think I probably would but being an extremely cautious person,

Presenter25:30

I would only do it under totally ideal circumstances. In other words, if a fifty foot launch was accidentally washed ashore, I might get on it. It would take me many years to build the raft big enough for me to dare to escape on it.

Presenter25:46

More music.

Presenter25:48

This is some uh music from a film, one of

Presenter25:51

Ten best films I've ever seen, called Offunegro, which is about twenty years old.

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And it's the um

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Samba, the awful and

Presenter26:01

One of the reasons that I've chosen it will become apparent.

Presenter26:04

Sort of halfway through. Most of the film is about the carnival in Rio de Janeiro, isn't it? Yes, that's right.

Presenter26:40

Somebody off you from

Presenter26:43

Black Orpheus.

Presenter26:45

Now, your last disc.

Presenter26:47

My last one, in chronological terms anyways, is um a fairly modern one compared to the other ones I've chosen. It's um Andrew Lloyd Webber's Variations on a Theme of Paganini, which I saw a performance of.

Presenter27:01

when they released the record, Andrew being a an old mate.

Presenter27:05

And I found it electrifying, a quite brilliant piece of work.

Presenter27:40

Andrew Lloyd Webbers.

Presenter27:42

Variations on a theme of Paganini. If you could only take one disc out of that eight, which would it be?

Presenter27:49

But you

Presenter27:50

really are turning the screw. I

Presenter27:52

I suppose at a pinch.

Presenter27:55

I would have to take the Marla, but um that's under duress.

Presenter27:59

Right.

Presenter28:00

And you're allowed to take one luxury with you. Nothing of any practical use. Must be inanimate.

Presenter28:06

Is a typewriter of practical use? No, not in the least. Oh, well, can I take a typewriter? Yes, I can. And some paper. Yes, and a good solid table to put it on. Yes, but. Oh, can I have that as well? What are you going to write? Well, I thought that if one is going to be on an island for all these years and one will obviously have some thoughts, then it would seem wasteful not to put them down. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare and big encyclopedias? Well, it would sit alongside my typewriter on my table. It would be Fowler's modern English usage. Right. And thank you, Robert Powell, for letting us hear your desert island discs. It's been an enormous pleasure. Thank you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 328:49

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.