Michael Crawford

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 20:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1978 and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

This week, our castaway is the actor Michael Crawford. Michael, you're a very active chap. Do you think you could look after yourself on a desert island?

Michael Crawford0:38

Well, yes, I think I I think I could. Um I tend to live when I'm not working, a little uh uh as though I'm on a desert island. I n l l live by myself, although I do have a sort of Girl Friday in my ninety three year old grandmother who lives next door, but she's not too keen on running around getting the firewood.

Presenter0:56

Ah yes, I understand. Could you build a shelter?

Michael Crawford1:00

Um, yes, yes, I could. I'm I'm I'm I I'm good at that sort of thing. Done any fishing? Uh no, I haven't. No. I I'm I'm loath to b bang things like that on the head, I must say. I don't I don't mind getting them out the water, but I'm I'm not too it it's like keeping chickens. I'm I'm great, but I'll end up with a hundred and fifty chickens and I haven't got the courage to what is known as ring their necks.

Presenter1:20

I'm got the

Presenter1:21

What is that?

Presenter1:23

Would you try to escape?

Michael Crawford1:24

I think so, yes. Um unless some very attractive young native girl turned up, I think I would. Yes, I would try and build a little

Michael Crawford1:34

Little boat or something, yes.

Presenter1:35

Now you have eight disks, just eight. What's the first?

Michael Crawford1:39

The first, I think for a little uh n necessary spiritual help, the missaluba, the African Mass, which uh I heard years and years ago, Westminster Cathedral for the first time, live. And I think if there were any unfriendly cannibals, the the the drums on this record would certainly s scare the hell out of them. Right. Which bit of it should we hear? The Gloria, I think, is is rather nice. There's beautiful young voices in it.

Speaker 12:13

Yeah.

Speaker 12:15

One time.

Speaker 12:17

Now that's fair.

Speaker 12:41

Crossy as a Jimmy

Speaker 12:44

Hermanyam Gori Yam

Speaker 12:46

Nomines a rage l'Ét.

Presenter3:04

The Gloria from The Missaluba

Michael Crawford3:07

What part of the country do you come from? Well, I started off in in Wiltshire, but didn't stay there long enough to sort of get an accent, a Wiltshire accent. In Salisbury I was born. And then I moved to Kent, and then I moved to London.

Presenter3:21

You had a a a musical upbringing. In fact, you you began as a choir boy, as a as a boy soprano. Yes, I did.

Michael Crawford3:27

I was well, uh I actually cheated a little. I had a a little round, chubby face with very skinny legs. I looked like a sort of very fair advert for Oxfam when I was about six. And and I went to a choir school and the voice hadn't really developed too well, and I think that the choir master liked the look of my face and and said that you look sort of angelic. Of course I wasn't, but I was allowed to stand up front of of the choir and carry the cross, but was forbidden to sing only to mime.

Michael Crawford4:00

Uh because I I sometimes went out of tune or forgot the words uh and or chewed gum, which is a revolting habit that I had.

Presenter4:08

Did you do any acting at school?

Michael Crawford4:11

Yes, I did, but uh never at the right time. I think I was the sort of clown in class who who th you have um lots of friends, you make everyone laugh until authority comes in the room and then you have no friends at all. Um but no, I did have one opportunity and that was to play The Little Sweep uh in Let's Make an Opera by Benjamin Britton. Mhm. I appeared at um Lambeth Town Hall, which I think has a little plaque there now. Um

Michael Crawford4:38

Uh not in honour, I might add, of me, um, but a c catastrophe. It was my first uh accident that I ever had, which maybe lined me up for my Frank Spencer role later in life. But I I went in wholeheartedly to this this this part where where the headmaster was playing the sweep. It was about little sweep boys being pushed up chimneys in the old days because they had very wide chimneys and they were cleaned out by sweep boys. And I played this little boy in rags and uh it was a chance for the headmaster to to whip me unmercifully and he loved every minute of it and as he did it to music he put even more into it. And the Frenchmaster who disliked me equally as much was beating me from another angle so I was I was covered in welts all over. And I was so nervous about coming on with these two men that on the opening night when the Lord Mayor of Lambeth and the Lord Mayor of Wandsworth and everyone all the dignitaries from miles around were there.

Michael Crawford5:32

and they drag me on stage and that the first verse they rip my shirt off and the second verse they they rip my trousers off and I'm left in these ragged little pants. I'm then f pushed up the chimney on the third verse.

Michael Crawford5:44

Well, the first verse came and they ripped my shirt off, and the second verse came and they started to struggle with my trousers, and I was fighting back. And I couldn't interrupt because he was in full voice, the headmaster, and he never liked to be interrupted. So I just had to let him go ahead, and he ripped my trousers off, and I'd forgotten to put the ragged pants on. And it was the first frontal nudity that that had ever been seen in Lambeth Town Hall. And I must say it got rather a good round of applause. I was playing flattered. But but the headmaster, I wasn't ex expelled because he thought I'd done it on purpose. And he threw me up the chimney three verses too early.

Presenter6:19

I think that's a very good way of getting you off.

Presenter6:24

It was your singing that that that brought you into the profession, wasn't it?

Michael Crawford6:27

Uh yes, yes, yes it was. Um then I was sort of answering advertisements in The Telegraph for boy sopranos which introduced me to the English opera group who were looking for boy sopranos for Let's Make an Opera. And we w we played um the the old uh Scala Theatre in London and did six months touring England and it was a terrific introduction to music.

Presenter6:50

Yeah.

Michael Crawford6:50

Uh it couldn't have been better.

Presenter6:52

So by now you were good and stage drug. This was going to be your career.

Michael Crawford6:55

Yes, yes, I really was keen on that. But unfortunately my voice slid, it didn't break. I went along for my first musical audition and I thought, well, this is wonderful. And have you sung before, Mr Crawford? and I said yes, yes I have. I sang from Benjamin Britton and they said, Oh really? Well what are you going to sing for us? I said on the on the on the street where you live I would like to sing from my fair lady and I stood up and I I sang through on the street where you live with with a sort of Jimmy James introduction where I was saying to the pianist I'd never met in my life, he said what key would you like it in? Well I'd never been asked before. Benjamin Britton had always told me what key I was going to sing in and I sang in it. So I was going on on on the street and so there was this great search for the note. In the end I found it and it wasn't the right one.

Michael Crawford7:43

I sang through the number, and I could hear laughter throughout the entire audition. I finished the song, and there were great roars of delight from the audience, and I was the sweat was pouring off my head, and they said, Do you know anything else? That was just wonderful. Do you know anything else?

Michael Crawford7:59

And

Michael Crawford8:01

I said, Yes, yes, of course I do and I went over and I whispered to the pianist, and I said, Would you please stand up? and they said, I beg your pardon. I said, Would you please stand? And they stood, and I sang God Save the Queen and I and I walked off.

Michael Crawford8:14

And I had the last laugh, but sadly they had the even later laugh because I didn't get another audition for five years.

Speaker 18:15

I had the last

Presenter8:24

Let's have another echo.

Michael Crawford8:26

Um, well, at that point in my life I think I was very much into jazz and and very lovely music things like Billy Holliday was one of my and still is one of my very favorite singers and um

Speaker 18:35

B

Michael Crawford8:40

Being a romantic, I think um one of my favourite numbers that she sang was For All We Know.

Speaker 18:52

This may only be a dream.

Michael Crawford9:01

Wingtown and go up

Michael Crawford9:07

Like a ripple or a stream

Presenter9:15

Billy Holiday. Now, you left school at fifteen. You had already done some broadcasting.

Michael Crawford9:21

Yes, I had. Um I'd I'd made about five hundred radio broadcasts but as I told you I I left school prematurely and um I finished my education in the BBC schools department where I was kept under very strict control. Playing all sorts of parts? Yes. In one morning I played Henry VIII and three of his wives all in the same programme. Well that's an economy isn't it? Well they were short-staffed and I had I was r very good Catherine of Aragon.

Presenter9:49

You did some children's films, too?

Michael Crawford9:51

Oh yes, yes. One was uh called Soapbox Derby and uh Blow Your Own Trumpet, which were v both very big in Russia, if I don't know why. They both won awards in Russia. It must have had something to do with my legs.

Presenter10:04

Uh what was your first West End appearance?

Michael Crawford10:08

My first West End appearance I think was Come Blow Your Horn, which was an American play by Neil Simon, which was a wonderful opportunity, and the very first time that I ever played comedy, which was about sixteen years ago. I think.

Michael Crawford10:21

It was a big success. It yes, it was. I w very, very fortunate. I mean, it was like a dream come true. I remember I was given the script and I went along and I was the very last person who auditioned.

Michael Crawford10:33

Um and I've very fortunately got the part. I'd studied an American comedian called Woody Woodbury, who nobody's sort of heard of over here, but he used to tell drunk stories and I told these ghastly drunk stories about men coming home at three in the morning and women. Yes, that's it. And he s uh, sits at a piano and says, My wife came home at three o'clock in the morning and I

Speaker 110:50

That works in Florida.

Speaker 110:52

Uh

Michael Crawford10:57

And my girlfriend says to her, You gotta jump out the window and I said, But we're on the thirteenth floor She said, This is no time to be superstitious And there were awful stories like that. But I told these jokes to the producer and he sort of

Speaker 111:05

Yeah.

Michael Crawford11:11

He's just groaning and grunting. I think he gave me the part just to shut me up.

Michael Crawford11:16

Right. I'll shut up then.

Presenter11:16

I'll shut up.

Michael Crawford11:17

You'll be glad when I'm on this desert island, won't you?

Presenter11:18

Not a majority.

Presenter11:22

Well, there you are. You're in the Western, so we can stop now for your third record. What's that to be?

Presenter11:27

Uh

Michael Crawford11:28

Um being romantic. It's just always dreaming about things and

Michael Crawford11:33

John Williams' Cavatina has such a a lovely sound to it, and it has lots and lots of lovely memories of nice people.

Presenter12:40

John Williams Cavatina. So, a leading part in the West End, still only twenty years old, I think. You had a nice break in television in not so much a programme. More a way of life.

Michael Crawford12:51

Marvellous. That was about two or three years later and uh I played a character called Byron which was uh created by Peter Lewis, the writer on the Denny Mail, and Peter Do Bryner who was the golf correspondent and maybe still is on The Observer. And Ned Sherron got them together and created that character for me. So I was very, very, very grateful.

Presenter13:12

It's not

Presenter13:14

Was it Byron who who got you your your film, The Neck?

Michael Crawford13:19

No, that was through just going along and doing about sixteen auditions for Richard Lester and Oscar Lewenstein and

Presenter13:26

And I'll scroll.

Michael Crawford13:28

Being brought down from about five hundred people again is ghastly auditions.

Presenter13:33

A film that won the Cairn Festival, that didn't do you any harm. No, that was very, very exciting.

Michael Crawford13:37

Yeah.

Presenter13:38

And you also managed a pop group at one time.

Michael Crawford13:39

Yes, it was yesterday. Now, I thought that was a wonderful idea. It was one of the things I was out of work.

Michael Crawford13:46

And we all came from Clapham at the time and

Michael Crawford13:50

happens to be in South West London, South West Four, and what better title for a group than the South West Four? Except there were five of us, and so we either had to move to Tooting or otherwise

Michael Crawford14:03

Otherwise I had to drop out the group and by general consensus I dropped out.

Presenter14:09

Yes.

Michael Crawford14:09

Because they weren't too appreciative of my singing and so I was uh once again, like the choir master was asking me to mime rather than sing the song.

Presenter14:20

Um

Presenter14:21

Now you did another film for Richard Lester.

Michael Crawford14:25

Yes, I did two more for Richard Lester, How I Won the War and uh A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, which was r really the first musical.

Presenter14:34

Yeah. that I ever did.

Presenter14:36

And you made your first appearance, your debut on the New York stage.

Michael Crawford14:40

Yes, th a thrilling experience, doing Peter Schaefer's B Black Comedy.

Michael Crawford14:47

Very, very frightening. Not a not a friend in the city until we'd opened, and then suddenly we were whined and dined, and it it really was everything that was written about it, and one had heard about it.

Presenter15:01

Well, he won an award as Best Actor of the Year in New York.

Michael Crawford15:04

And that was lovely.

Presenter15:04

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter15:06

Record number four.

Michael Crawford15:07

Another lovely lady who tells beautiful stories. Um this all happened at the time I I was living on my own and feeling a little sorry for myself in my first bed sit in West Kensington. And and this one's called The Right Thing to Do, and it's by Carly Simon.

Speaker 215:32

There's nothing you can do to turn me away.

Speaker 215:38

Nothing

Speaker 115:39

Anyone can say

Speaker 115:42

You're with me now, and as long as you stay, loving you's the right thing.

Speaker 215:49

Love and use the right place.

Presenter15:56

Carlos Simon

Presenter15:58

Now, your New York success led to some American films, didn't it?

Michael Crawford16:02

Yes, a lot of people fly over from Los Angeles, film people, and see what's going on on the the New York stage and by pure chance I had

Michael Crawford16:12

a movie on there at the time called The Jokers, and that was very, very successful in New York.

Michael Crawford16:18

Well, a a gentleman, most wonderful gentleman, the late Roger Edens, who found and encouraged such people as Judy Garland and Ethel Merman and oh but such stars you wouldn't believe well, he came to New York and came to see black comedy and thought that I might be right for the part of Cornelius Hackle in the movie of Hello Dolly. So he went back to Hollywood and had a word with with uh Gene Kelly and said he thought maybe he'd found the person to do this. And Gene Kelly couldn't get to New York and I finished that week. So what happened? I had to fly over to San Francisco to meet him.

Michael Crawford17:01

And I mean this I mean I th like a thirteen hour plane journey. I'd n never been up there that long and I I was so excited, but obviously I w I was exhausted by the time we got there and I thought he's calling at three o'clock, he's coming to see me, I've got to get myself ready.

Michael Crawford17:19

And what should I wear to meet somebody like this? I don't know. So I had a bath and then I'd put something on and it was only two o'clock so I had another bath and changed again. And then I had another bath because I couldn't sit still and and I I started I kept sweating so I had to keep having a bath, I thought,'cause I must be clean for when he arrives. And and I was the cleanest actor in San Francisco by five to three.

Michael Crawford17:41

And I I had another change of clothes and but this ti uh I had a pair of striped trousers and a Czech shirt on and a

Michael Crawford17:48

a sort of polar neck sweater. It looked ghastly. I I looked like something out of the of a of a Mard de Gras and and there was a ring at the door and I rushed at the door and he I opened the door and he was standing there and

Michael Crawford18:01

I just said he said, I'm, I said, I know, I just, I know, I couldn't speak, I couldn't in a word out.

Michael Crawford18:09

He he came in past me and it looked as though he it was all choreographed. He sort of ran down this corridor'cause I had a vast apartment. It was just vast. We ran through and I thought I'd lost him. There was a piano in one room and he went and sat down and I said, Excuse the way I'm dressed, but I've I've been waiting for you and I just didn't know what to wear so I kept changing. I just said, okay, let's cut the small talk. He said, now let's uh talk about what's in hand. And I I said he said, I what we're he said, can you dance? So I said, well, I did learn I'd had two lessons to learn to dance in Tooting, funnily enough, by a woman called Dolly and I was fired after the second lesson because she had very large chest and and I used to like looking at my feet when I was dancing and she thought I was looking at something else and and she hit me round the head and I was asked to leave after the second lesson.

Michael Crawford18:58

Anyway, he then said about my singing and he went into a routine and said, Just try that step.

Michael Crawford19:07

Well, there was no way I could try the step that he'd just done, but I had an attempt at it, and I said that was awful and he said, No, well, let me tell you what we're looking for. He said, We're looking for

Michael Crawford19:16

An attractive

Michael Crawford19:18

Idiot. And uh

Michael Crawford19:20

My wife thinks you're attractive.

Michael Crawford19:23

And I think you're an idiot. And I came back to England and I did a test, and I very luckily got the path.

Presenter19:32

Typecasting would be.

Michael Crawford19:33

Yes, yes. Well, I can't argue with that.

Presenter19:36

So hello, Dolly, then you've written one called The Games.

Michael Crawford19:39

Yes, that was uh another for Michael Winner, having done the Jokers for him, which is about Olympic athletes.

Michael Crawford19:46

Then you had a bad patch, didn't you? I spent about eighteen months out of work.

Michael Crawford19:51

And making cushions and and uh sort of uh literally stuffing cushions and selling cushions. But it it it kept me off the streets and I was

Presenter19:51

Perhaps you

Michael Crawford20:00

Happily occupied.

Michael Crawford20:03

Um a farce, to say the least, called No Sex Please We're British, which I was offered and I uh read and with uh you know I that it wasn't what I really wanted to do and then I changed a lot of it around and they allowed me to do certain things with it and I made it very physical and in the end I mean what I did was to create the characterization that um I later was to use as Frank Spencer.

Presenter20:33

Let's have another rec.

Michael Crawford20:33

Go to long.

Presenter20:34

Babson

Michael Crawford20:34

True.

Presenter20:34

Yeah.

Michael Crawford20:34

You had one?

Presenter20:35

Yeah.

Michael Crawford20:36

Well, having talked so much about mister Kelly, whenever I wu would get depressed, or whenever I do get depressed, I think one of the loveliest things that have ever come out of any musical surely must have been singing in the rain.

Michael Crawford20:50

Um see

Presenter20:51

Yeah.

Presenter20:53

You're singing in the rain

Presenter20:57

What a glorious feel, and I'm happy again. I'm laughing at clouds, so dark up for morals.

Presenter21:11

The sun's in my heart, and I'm ready for love.

Presenter21:17

mister Kelly.

Presenter21:19

Now you have mentioned some mothers do have them.

Presenter21:22

Uh television series about a character called Frank. Uh you work on the scripts of those, don't you?

Michael Crawford21:28

Yes, I do. Uh from the word go it started off with Duncan Wood and uh Michael Mills and then R Raymond Allen had written a script.

Michael Crawford21:39

Um we all got together and discussed it and then just Michael Mills was left to produce and direct the show. And then Raymond and I got to work together and uh we just found some stories and and refined. Uh he was very

Michael Crawford21:55

uh slapsticky to start with and we slowly have

Michael Crawford21:59

refined him and uh even though he's still

Michael Crawford22:03

silly and and and

Michael Crawford22:05

I think he's uh

Michael Crawford22:07

He's it it's a little more mature now. How many series have we done? We've done thirteen shows, that's all. That's all, yes. It seems more than that.

Presenter22:14

You're filming some more Now aren't you?

Michael Crawford22:16

Yes, we're doing seven more now to bring it to a total of twenty. Including one for Christmas. A lot of stunting, very exhausting stuff. Well, it's all to do with the most incredible timing. And uh then you don't hurt yourself.

Presenter22:30

Well, that's the theory.

Michael Crawford22:32

That's the theory. Of course one always will, but uh not too badly on hopes.

Presenter22:36

Another exhausting character in your repertoire is Billy, whom you played at Drury Lane, uh the musical version of Billy Liar. Were you ever off stage in that show? Now I will

Michael Crawford22:46

Um it was it was about three hours long and I had two very quick changes and I was off stage for a total of about a minute and a half.

Michael Crawford22:56

And so that was quite tiring. How long did you play the part? For two years.

Presenter23:01

Long run. A great thrill, of course, working in the Theatre Royal Road lane.

Michael Crawford23:05

Uh uh an unforgettable experience. Um it was the the most exciting two years I've ever spent in the theatre.

Michael Crawford23:12

Record number six.

Michael Crawford23:14

Well, working in No Sex, Please, We're British, I had the lovely experience of of working with uh Evelyn Lay, who taught me an enormous amount. Uh one of the reasons that I was impressed enough to stay with Billy for two years was something that she said to me, Never turn your back on success, never leave success. When it when it's there, enjoy it and savour it and drink it up, no matter how hard, just drink it up, because it may not always be there. So I'd like to hear the lovely Miss Lay singing When I Grow Too Old to Dream.

Speaker 123:47

I grant for the dream I love you.

Speaker 123:59

And I belong in the brave.

Presenter24:14

Evelyn Leigh

Presenter24:15

Are we nearly up to date, Michael? You you've been in a play recently, haven't you?

Michael Crawford24:19

Yes, yes, I did a play called the same time next year Ch uh was once again back at the Prince of Wales Theatre.

Presenter24:27

And a two hander, so that was a hard evening's work.

Michael Crawford24:29

Yes, it was indeed. It was very, very hard. And we did it for I I mean, I lasted seven months and and we played to wonderful houses, got great reviews and and uh then I

Speaker 124:39

Then

Michael Crawford24:40

Had to leave it.

Michael Crawford24:42

Record number seven.

Presenter24:43

Yeah.

Michael Crawford24:43

Well, this has to do with my filming at the moment. It's a new love I've got, uh, flying. Oh, yes, you you've got your ticket now, have you? Yes, I have. I've worked quite hard at at flying and I got my pilot's license in seven weeks, which meant uh sleepless days and nights and writing it all over the ceiling so I didn't sort of even dream it. And and not that I did it for this reason, I did it because I've always wanted to fly, and I learned to fly and enjoyed it so much, and then I got lots of ideas about the funny things that had happened to me while I was learning that I've I've written in a catastrophic episode, which I believe will be our Christmas show, of Frank Spencer being let loose in a in a light aircraft. And it I think it should be one of the most terrifying

Presenter24:51

Yes

Michael Crawford25:27

Sequences that's ever been shown. You're going to do your own stunt flying? Yes, I I've done it already. So I'm I'm I'm happily here living to tell the tale. But it was I mean it is I hope just people have had their their Christmas dinners and well digested them before they watch it,'cause it it's it it frightened me when I watched it, but it and it wasn't frightening me when I was doing it. So this record links to that, I think, a a lovely record by David Gates called Clouds.

Presenter25:36

But it was

Presenter25:53

See the clouds adrift so far below

Presenter26:00

Ever changing as they come and go.

Presenter26:08

Makes me wonder why I'm up so high when really I am down so low

Presenter26:18

David Gates, Clouds. And now your last disc.

Michael Crawford26:23

Well, I would love to take something that to remind me uh that the really highlights of my nights in the theatre have always been m musicals, I think. And um

Michael Crawford26:36

I think Billy's too personal to take. I would like to generally take some sort of musical with me and maybe to remind me of all the catastrophes that happened when when I first auditioned and the first jobs that I got and maybe that every actor has to go through which people don't know about. And that was the opening night I went to a chorus line and I sat there in the third row as these marvellous dancers turned away, as you hear in the opening sounds of this record. They turn away from the mirror and they come towards you and it's an audition. The only difference being that there's this wonderful orchestra which you never have. You just have, as you hear at the beginning, a plaintive sound of a piano and it's usually very, very cold and there's lots of air coming out of your mouth. And when they turned away and this orchestra came in, I broke out into this cold sweat and my mouth fell wide open and that was just one of the most magical moments I've ever spent in a theatre. The opening number from Chorus Line.

Michael Crawford27:37

I hope I get it. I hope I get it. How many people does it? How many people does it?

Speaker 127:40

How many people don't design? I won't forget it. How many boys, how many girls? Look at all the people.

Presenter27:52

Uh

Michael Crawford27:52

I made me.

Presenter27:53

Rebel does it.

Michael Crawford27:53

How many points are we

Presenter27:54

Come in!

Speaker 127:54

Many boys, how many girls, how many people are we?

Presenter27:55

I really need this job.

Michael Crawford27:57

I really need

Presenter28:00

The

Michael Crawford28:01

He's got I need this job.

Presenter28:01

God, I need

Presenter28:03

The cast of chorus line. If you could take just one disc out of the eight, which would it be?

Presenter28:09

I think

Presenter28:11

The Misaluba

Michael Crawford28:11

Yeah.

Michael Crawford28:13

and one luxury to take with you.

Michael Crawford28:15

Um

Michael Crawford28:17

Well, I've thought about this a great deal and I think it would have to be an inflatable woman.

Michael Crawford28:23

But I'd also like one little extra, um a puncture outfit, because then I could safely sunbathe with her on the rocks.

Presenter28:31

I think that's a very good report.

Presenter28:33

And one book apart from the obvious choices of the Bible and Shakespeare, and we don't allow big encyclopedias.

Michael Crawford28:41

No, well I couldn't carry big encyclopedias and they don't float. I think I'd take John Seymour's book of self-sufficiency, which has already been a great help to me living in Bedfordshire, so I think it would be um an even greater help to me living on a desert island.

Presenter28:55

It's a kind of survival manual, isn't it?

Michael Crawford28:57

Yes, and most wonderful thing that you'd never believe how to exist and and cook stinging nettles. I mean, my children hate me reading it, but I adore reading it, throwing it all out on them.

Presenter29:06

Throwing it all out on them. Self-sufficiency by John Seymour. Right. And thank you, Michael Crawford, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you. Thank you very much. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 229:27

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.