Fred Trueman

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1978 and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Fred Trueman0:31

Our castaway this week is a great figure in the world of cricket. He is one of the best fast bowlers of all time, a Yorkshireman, Fred Truman.

Fred Trueman0:39

Fred, whereabouts in Yorkshire do you come from?

Presenter0:41

Yeah.

Presenter0:42

Well, I was born in a little village called uh Stainton, down near the bottom end of South Yorkshire, uh just the other side of Maltley, towards Bortry. So you're a country boy? Oh, yes, very much so. And of course now I live in the Yorkshire Dales, which is also very country up there.

Presenter0:56

Do you play records a lot?

Presenter0:58

No, not a lot, uh because I don't get chance. I'm not uh very often in. So spend a lot of my time listening to uh

Presenter1:06

Records and things on the car when I'm travelling. What's the first record you've chosen out of your eight?

Presenter1:11

Well, I thought uh I'm supposed to be

Presenter1:14

a fiery character. Uh this is supposed to be my image, which of course is completely wrong, but uh so let's stick to the image, shall we? And I think we'd start with uh Tschaikovsky's eighteen twelve Overture, the closing passages.

Fred Trueman2:27

The closing passage of Tchaikovsky's eighteen twelve Overture, played by the London Symphony Orchestra and the Band of the Grenadier Guards, conducted by Kenneth Alwyn.

Fred Trueman2:36

No.

Presenter2:37

Uh, Fred, your father was a miner, but you don't really come from a mining family, do you?

Presenter2:41

Well no, my father comes more from uh the racing background. Horses. The horses, yes. And uh of course in the uh

Presenter2:50

Late twenties when things were bad, uh and especially with the advent of the motor car and the horse traffic starting to die away, uh he's a buyer and a seller and things like that, uh he moved into the Yorkshire coalfields and so that's where I was born, in the coalfields. How many were you in the family?

Presenter3:08

Oh, wait a minute, seven or eight of us. So so times were a bit tough. Oh, yeah, they were tough, but they were very happy times. They were.

Presenter3:16

That's the main thing, you know. You always had a good meal and you were always

Presenter3:19

uh well clothed. Uh dad was a very conscientious person when it came to the family. They they came first, very much so. And you used to help out by doing odd jobs. Oh yeah, I used to go

Speaker 13:29

Oh yeah.

Presenter3:31

In the winter is the picking potatoes in the field and uh in the summer the well, the autumn time the harvest used to be

Presenter3:37

Stoking the old sheaves up when they came out of the binder, you know, and then uh left them into the uh old Dutch barns for stacking and thrashing and things like that, and even chopping and tailing turnips in the winter. And uh of course seven bubb a week was a lot of money. I've been reading your own account of your life story and Ball of Fire. You went to church on on Sundays three times. Oh, no arguing, yes. Uh the choir in the morning. Uh then of course uh one became confirmed, which we had to be and took Holy Communion.

Presenter4:06

Sunday school in the afternoon, then Sunday evening with the choir again, and of course uh Tuesdays and Thursdays choir practice. Your father loved cricket.

Presenter4:14

Oh yes, the whole family did. They were

Presenter4:16

I d I remember hearing my father talking once about my uh my grandfather back in the

Presenter4:23

Must have been the 1880s or something and uh

Presenter4:27

He was asked to uh go to the Yorkshire Nets and when they said what the pay was as a cricketer, as a fast bowler, he said uh he couldn't afford to go play cricket, which of course it doesn't altered much now, has it? So you're the third generation of fast bowlers.

Presenter4:41

No, my father was a slow left hand spin ver the left hand bat. That's probably where Amikamamadex is from.

Speaker 14:43

Uh

Fred Trueman4:43

That's what we're doing.

Presenter4:46

How early did he start you?

Presenter4:49

Oh, I can remember playing uh

Presenter4:51

A sort of cricket on the field when father was playing, uh, possibly as way back as three or four years of age. And especially by five or six, I could bowl at a dustbin lid on two bricks, and that's what I learned to bowl. He was captain of the village team. Yes, he was captain of the village team. Now, you played for your school. Your father wanted you to play for Maltby Cricket Club, but they turned you down. Well, yes, uh actually I went up to the Nets with my five bob in my pocket, which was the uh customary fee to be a member, and uh bowled a few people out in the Nets and was quite straight told that there was plenty of my sort up there. So I went and joined a little club called Roach Abbey, and then of course I went on from there. But of course now Rochaby played Maltby Cricket Club.

Fred Trueman5:37

That's right.

Presenter5:38

Turned you down? Yes. And uh what did you do to him? Uh that was in the knockout competition. I won uh

Presenter5:45

I won the savings certificate of those days for 15 Bob for the best bowling performance. I think it was something like six or eleven, I got or something, wasn't it? I just forget the figures now. You just about devastated Maltby Cricket Club. Oh, yes, and then they tried to get me to play for Maltby Club, but Dad said he stays where he is. Anyway, you're too late, he's going to Sheffield United now, where I went and joined Sheffield United under the coaching of uh one of my dearest, greatest friends who passed on a few years ago, was Cyril Turner, the old Yorkshire player.

Presenter6:10

Let's have your second record. What have you chosen next?

Fred Trueman6:12

Uh

Presenter6:13

Ah well, I've chosen a thing here that might shake a few people, but uh I've chosen a thing called Tables and Chairs sung by, of all people, the Yorkshire County Cricket Club. And the reason I chose it was because I had 20 years with Yorkshire and definitely the last 10 years of that career with the lads like the Don Wilsons and Phil Sharps and Jimmy Binks's and these type of lads, Jackie Hampshire's absolutely fantastic. The the years were so happy that if I'm going to be on a desert island, I want to be able to listen to their voices and reminisce over the years of those great happy years that I have. And this will remind me of them. And I think it's a lovely record.

Speaker 46:59

The house is just a house, we've bought too long

Speaker 47:06

All the sloping roof, a telephone. Windows and doors, ceilings and floors, chimneys so tall, and an old garden wall.

Fred Trueman7:22

Tables and Chairs by the Yorkshire County Cricket Club

Presenter7:25

Uh

Fred Trueman7:25

Yeah.

Presenter7:25

How are you?

Fred Trueman7:25

Uh

Presenter7:26

How old were you when the County Club began to take an interest?

Presenter7:29

About sixteen.

Presenter7:30

I was getting a lot of wickets uh in the local district in those time, things like six for one and eight for thirteen and eight for seven and six for two and They're rather alarming figures. And then the the county club sent you out on on a coat. Tour first.

Fred Trueman7:45

Uh

Presenter7:46

That was the uh Yorkshire Boys under Eighteen's team where I toured and of course that's where I met Brian Close from Railingworth. Uh we were to become closely associated over a great number of years. You had to go to Leeds for coaching, which was quite expensive. Did did the club help?

Presenter8:02

Uh yes, they paid uh your bus fare.

Presenter8:06

And gave it ten bob. That was in the late forties. And of course uh what I liked about it it's always a new ten bob note.

Presenter8:15

You're working at the pit by now.

Fred Trueman8:15

That was announced.

Presenter8:19

No, I wasn't. Yeah, I wasn't working in the pit uh because my father never wanted me to go down a mine or any of his family. Uh but what happened was that uh the Yorkshire County Cricket Club wanted me to to play for Yorkshire. By then I'd reached the age of eighteen and uh

Presenter8:34

I was doing one or two great things and uh they wanted me to carry on, wanted me to get a reserved occupation, which I did, which was down the mines, which uh my father fixed at the Colery for me. Uh then in nineteen fifty one

Presenter8:48

They made a mistake, Yorkshire, on the Monday afternoon they gave em my Yorkshire county cap.

Presenter8:52

A rule had been passed where you got five pounds a week if you were in the forces. So I was capped on the Monday just before teen, and I'd joined the Air Force at two thirty on the Tuesday afternoon, and I'd finish with the mines for ever.

Presenter9:02

I always reckon anybody wants a wants a ton of coal, they should go down and get their own.

Fred Trueman9:06

Yeah.

Presenter9:06

Right. Record number three.

Presenter9:09

Record number three. Yeah, this is something that uh

Presenter9:12

I chose because uh I first heard this uh record ooh a long long time ago now and it reminds me of the beautiful West Indies uh which I loved playing cricket in the West Indies and I I liked the people there, I got on with them very well. I could have a joke with them and a laugh with them and they loved it and so I like blue Hawaii so I could sit down and

Presenter9:33

Remember some of the great times I had in the West Indies and the lovely cricket that I enjoyed.

Speaker 49:40

It is young and so are we. The night is young, so are we dreams come true?

Speaker 49:52

In blue the body.

Speaker 49:57

And what could all come true on this magic night?

Fred Trueman10:08

Ray Conniff's Orchestra and Singers, BLUE Hawaii.

Fred Trueman10:12

Now you won your plays, your regular plays in the Yorkshire team.

Fred Trueman10:16

Um and then you went in to do your national service? Yes.

Fred Trueman10:21

But you had a telephone call one day that they'd applied for leave for you to play in your first Test while you were

Presenter10:26

That's right, yes. Where was it? Uh that was at uh a place called Hemswell in Lincolnshire where I was stationed.

Fred Trueman10:27

Where was

Presenter10:32

One chat.

Presenter10:34

When I look back on my RAF days, you know, they were absolutely fantastic. And I received a a phone call from somebody to say, Congratulations, you've been picked to play for England, you see. This was on the Friday before the Lancashire match at Leeds. And so I won't say on the air what I said on the phone to this person who rang up, you see, and put the phone down. You thought it was a gag? Oh, I thought it was just one big hoax, yes. I mean, never dreamt of playing for England. And then.

Presenter11:01

A bit later on a great lifelong friend rang me, called uh Bill Bowes, the old Yorkshire and England fast bowler.

Fred Trueman11:06

True month.

Presenter11:08

Uh and when he rang me and

Presenter11:11

Told me I'd been chosen to play for England, of course I knew it was true. Against whom? I was against India in nineteen fifty two and uh You just about murdered India that summer. Oh yeah, I had a great time, yeah. But I'll I'll never forget that first Test match because

Presenter11:24

I played in the Yorkshire-Lancashire match on the Saturday, Monday, Tuesday. We had the Wednesday off and I stayed at a hotel in Harrogate and this is where I first really got to know people.

Presenter11:35

Dennis Comptons and Godfrey Evans and Trevor Baileys and people, they were and Alec Betzer's, they were just great names to me that uh I'd had fleeting meetings with.

Presenter11:45

And uh the thing that stuck out in my mind was England lost the toss, so we fielded, and the thing that stuck in my mind was would I be nervous, you see? And I was thinking this to myself as I went down the steps uh to bowl my first bowl for England.

Presenter12:01

And I was absolutely shattered and surprised that the atmosphere of the Test match against India was nothing to what I'd just been through against the old enemy Lancashire. And I always I always say now that the the atmosphere of a Yorkshire Lancashire match, especially in those days

Presenter12:17

about the only thing that would compare with it would be uh Australia v England. Because the atmosphere in a Yorkshire Lancashire match in those days, electric always had a very, very big crowd. If you weren't in the ground by eleven o'clock you didn't bother to go. And of course there was something like

Presenter12:32

Always somewhere between fifteen and eighteen internationals between the two sides on the field. So you could see the standard uh of that a particular match.

Presenter12:43

And after that first test

Fred Trueman12:44

You were still in uniform when you went uh off to the West Indies for your first tour, first test tour.

Presenter12:50

No, I was uh I was demob then. Were you? Oh, yes. I came out of the Air Force in fifty three September, about the seventeenth. Yes. And I uh went off to the West Indies about December the tenth or something, the following year.

Fred Trueman13:04

Now from what you say

Presenter13:05

Yeah.

Fred Trueman13:06

Uh

Presenter13:06

Yorkshire wasn't a very happy club in those days. The old Sweats didn't really encourage the youngsters. They didn't help very much. Well, I didn't say they wouldn't en they didn't encourage them. They probably didn't help them as much as they should have done.

Presenter13:19

And I I thought in the fifties that we had a great side, and we really did have a great side when you think of people like Hutton and Lawson and Watson and Close and Yardley and

Presenter13:30

uh Rennons and Coxons and Appleyards and myself and

Presenter13:35

Oh, it's a great side. And we won nothing.

Speaker 113:37

Uh

Presenter13:38

I I I always thought that we wouldn't

Presenter13:41

Two or possibly three camps.

Presenter13:43

In one team. So, in some ways, it wasn't a very happy time for you, those early days. Oh, it was a bit hard, but uh when you'd had two years in the forces uh you could accept discipline as long as that discipline was administered correctly. Yes, when it wasn't well, you had a reputation at that time for being a little bit of a tearaway.

Presenter14:02

Yeah, I did, but uh I think that was because uh I didn't care who people were. I told them what I thought, I just spoke straight because I could never say yes if the answer was no and I could never say no if the answer was yes. Yes. So it d I I probably made things a little bit difficult for myself, but at least I could put my head on the pillow at night and go to sleep with a clear conscience.

Presenter14:20

At one time you were offered terms by Lincoln City as a soccer player. Were you tempted to do the double?

Presenter14:26

Oh, yes, very tempting. I would love to have uh

Presenter14:28

played soccer uh as well as cricket uh but I was asked by certain people in the hierarchy to uh

Presenter14:37

think of England and England cricket and my career. So uh I thought about it.

Presenter14:43

Very seriously, turned soccer down and went to Australia and left me at home for the winter without a job. So I finished up selling furniture.

Speaker 414:48

Have any subselling furniture?

Presenter14:50

Right, another record. What next?

Presenter14:53

Well, the record I I chose was uh something else trying to remind me of my life, of the many Christmases I spent away from home and which I still do.

Presenter15:01

And when you sit there in a hundred degrees, it's not quite the same.

Presenter15:06

And I used to think and dream of the white Christmas in England and when you phone the poem sometimes it was a white Christmas and you say, Oh God, I wish I was there just to see it, you know.

Presenter15:18

And so, with that in mind, to remind me of those times I spent away at Christmas, I chose uh Bing Crosby singing White Christmas.

Speaker 415:36

I'm dreaming. Have a word Christmas

Speaker 415:48

Just like the

Fred Trueman15:56

Bing Crosby, dreaming of a white Christmas.

Fred Trueman15:59

Now a long list of successes can get a bit monotonous, so we won't go into all the statistics. But the basic success that you had is that you took over three hundred wickets in to

Presenter16:09

as cricket and that doesn't happen very often.

Presenter16:12

No, there's only two bowlers uh ever done it, myself and uh a young man from the West Indies called Lance Gibbs, who's an off spin bowler and a very fine bowler. Uh and Lance beat me uh by two wickets. He played more Test matches than me, of course, which one would expect from a spin bowler and uh he took the record and uh

Presenter16:31

I think anybody that gets over three hundred wickets like Lambs did to pass me deserves it. And three times you took ten wickets in a Test match.

Presenter16:39

Done?

Fred Trueman16:40

So it says here.

Presenter16:42

And how many had Yeah.

Presenter16:44

Uh

Presenter16:46

I think I got four for Yorkshire. Three against Nottinghamshire. One of my favourite counties and favourite people down there on the committee. And I got one against the MCC at Lourdes, which of course if you get an attack at Lords, that always gives you great success because Lourdes is a beautiful ground and it's the it's the home of cricket, the headquarters of world cricket. Great show place. Oh I love going to Lourdes. I think it's the most beautiful place.

Speaker 117:00

Glaude.

Speaker 117:01

Miss

Presenter17:09

Total number of

Fred Trueman17:10

Wickets In first-class cricket, 2302. You used to card index every batsman in your mind. You you knew which way he was going to move, didn't you?

Presenter17:21

Yes, I used to have this uh photographic memory of how to uh bowl at people, uh their first movements, especially their first movement as a batsman bowling at them. I always thought I was very lucky, you see, where I used to feel that leg slip or short leg.

Presenter17:37

And if Brian Statham was bowling, or Frank Tyson, or Peter Loder,

Presenter17:42

Hmm.

Presenter17:43

I was at that position and I used to watch the batsmen because I was a similar type of bowler. So basically their first movement would be against me as it was against them. And so I could I had this wonderful memory where I could photograph everything and keep it stocked up there. And uh I think this stood me in great steadfielding close to the wicket'cause it's unusual they tell me for quick bowlers to field.

Presenter18:08

close to the wicket, which I did.

Presenter18:11

Looking back, which was the

Presenter18:13

Most memorable game of cricket you have ever played. Well, a lot of people say to me.

Presenter18:20

What was the greatest thrill in your life? And I always have one stock answer, and that is every time I put on.

Presenter18:26

A Yorkshire or England sweater.

Presenter18:29

That was a great thrill for me, just playing cricket. I just wish I could turn the clocks back twenty years and play again.

Presenter18:35

But it's a great fascinating game. It's a game, you see, that

Presenter18:39

I don't think you can ever learn everything about.

Presenter18:42

One day you've got six for twenty against a good side, you think you're bowling against a poor side, I'll get a stack of wickets. Every day you get one for a hundred, your feet are back on the ground. It's like batting, you've got a hundred and fifty against a good bowling side, you'll go against a poor bowling side and think, Oh, I should get a hundred in, you get out for naught, or two or three, and you've failed and your feet are back on the ground again. That's the great thing about cricket, it's a great leveller.

Presenter19:04

What's your next record?

Presenter19:05

Oh, the next one is the uh the uh Torreodolls from uh Carmen. And that's the one I want to listen to. I think that's beautiful.'Cause that you see that just gets you going a little bit. That gets you marching up and down that beach and keeping fit. Because I think if you're going to be on an island, or a desert island, you've got to keep yourself fit and keep yourself healthy.

Fred Trueman20:26

Biz Carmen Suite, Sir Thomas Beecham with the French National Radio Orchestra.

Fred Trueman20:31

Now, in 1968, you retired from first-class cricket. That's when you started to get really busy.

Fred Trueman20:38

You had already been writing for a Sunday paper.

Presenter20:40

For for some years. Oh, yes. And and you still do with the same paper? And I love every moment of it.

Presenter20:46

You started by doing a spell as a comedian.

Presenter20:49

Oh, yeah, went on the uh stage uh

Presenter20:52

Uh a couple of times, telling a few stories and having a laugh and all that business. Yeah, but uh that wasn't for me. You still do about one night a week. I mean, you're

Speaker 120:54

Yeah.

Presenter21:01

A after dinner speaker? I speak at a few dinners. Uh I don't speak at as many as I used to do, but I I I speak at a few dinners and lunches and uh have a lot of fun. And you've written several books? Written a few books, yes.

Fred Trueman21:13

Yeah.

Presenter21:14

Uh

Fred Trueman21:14

And you've had a television series on BBC, ten weeks of.

Fred Trueman21:18

A programme with John Arlen.

Presenter21:19

Programme with John Arlott. That's right. He is called Arlitt and Truman. A history of the game of cricket we did.

Presenter21:26

We had a lot of fun there. Of course John Arlott, one of the dearest men I've ever met in my life. I think so much of him and I think he's a wonderful man. You've done a book to tie in with that series. Done a book called Arlott and Truman on Cricket as well. And you'll do some coaching from time to time.

Speaker 121:30

In my life I think

Presenter21:41

Very rarely. Uh sometimes the lads will say to me, Will you watch me, Fred? I don't think I'm quite right, and I say yes.

Presenter21:49

And of course try to help as much as possible. So I should be, that's what I'm there for.

Fred Trueman21:51

Yeah.

Presenter21:53

Let's get back to music.

Presenter21:56

Uh

Presenter21:57

a young lady that uh followed her career.

Presenter22:01

since I first heard her sing many, many years ago, and for me I still think she's the greatest female singer in the world.

Presenter22:07

And uh that would be uh Shirley Bassie.

Speaker 422:13

And you love me.

Speaker 422:19

Your thoughts are just for me

Speaker 422:26

You set my spirit free

Speaker 422:32

I'm happy that you do

Fred Trueman22:38

Shirley Bassie, and I love you so.

Fred Trueman22:41

Now you're on this desert island. Are you a handyman? Could you look after yourself?

Fred Trueman22:46

Yeah.

Presenter22:46

Oh yeah, to uh uh a certain extent. Uh well you did start learning a bit of bricklaying, didn't you? Oh yes, yeah. Yeah, I could adapt if I have to do something.

Fred Trueman22:49

Well you did

Fred Trueman22:51

Oh yes, yeah.

Presenter22:55

I can soon knuckle down egg. What about food? Ever done any fishing?

Presenter23:00

A little bit of fishing. I remember the first time I cast for a trout and I was left with a rod in my hand and the reel and everything else was about forty feet across the middle of the river and uh a palamine had to roll his roll his trousers up to his thighs and go in and fetch the reel out. And you can cultivate, you know, you you've done a bit of farm work.

Speaker 123:11

Roll.

Presenter23:17

Good. Oh yeah, I can do that. I can cultivate all of that. Can you cook?

Presenter23:20

Yes, I can cook if I have to, yes. But that wife of mine, she's the best cook in the world, so I don't have to bother.

Fred Trueman23:21

Oat

Presenter23:25

Would you try to escape? Oh, yes. Certainly, I'd be looking for ways to get off that island, to get back to see uh

Presenter23:33

to see my family because they are the people I really miss, the family. Right.

Presenter23:37

Record number seven. Well, another artist who I had the great privilege of seeing uh one night.

Presenter23:46

at the Hilton Hotel in Sydney.

Presenter23:48

And that was the

Presenter23:50

Unforgettable, Matt Kinko. What a super guy

Presenter23:54

What a wonderful artist, and I'd like to uh hear Nat singing Unforgettable.

Speaker 424:00

Unforgettable

Speaker 424:06

That's what you are

Speaker 424:12

Unforgettable

Speaker 424:17

Though near our far

Speaker 424:24

Like a song of love

Speaker 424:27

That clings to me.

Fred Trueman24:30

Nat King Cole.

Presenter24:31

Yeah.

Fred Trueman24:31

Yeah.

Presenter24:32

Now we've got your last disk.

Presenter24:35

Yes, sir.

Presenter24:36

As we were saying before, I'd be looking to escape. I want to go home. And so I thought that uh a lovely piece, uh Vojac Largo, uh the old Negro spiritual uh song.

Presenter24:52

Of going home, and I'd love to hear that. From the New World Symphony. From the New World Symphony, yes.

Fred Trueman25:56

The Largo from Vojak's New World Symphony, Kirtesh conducting the London Symphony Orchestra. If you could take just one disc of the eight that you played to us, which would it be?

Fred Trueman26:06

It would be the last one.

Fred Trueman26:09

Yeah.

Presenter26:09

And you're allowed to take one luxury to the island with you?

Presenter26:13

Well, I love wildlife, I love birds and I love animals, and so what I would like, so I could study them, would be a pair of very good

Presenter26:23

High-powered binoculars. That can be provided. And you're allowed one Book, apart from

Fred Trueman26:27

the Bible and Shakespeare which are already there and we put the Bible

Presenter26:31

I would want uh Harold Macmillan's uh memoirs. I met the great man in a test match at the Oval years ago now and was taken by him straight away. What a wonderful man and I think in my own opinion the last statesman that this wonderful great country that I belong to had.

Presenter26:51

Harold Macmillan's Memoirs. And thank you, Fred Truman, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc. Thank you for having me, Roy. It's been very enjoyable. Great pleasure. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 127:10

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.