Antal Dorati

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and you are listening to Desert Island Discs.

Speaker 10:05

This edition of Desert Island Discs was archived without the music.

Speaker 10:09

So although the Castaways choices are introduced, they're not part of this recording.

Speaker 10:15

Full details can be found on the Castaways page on the Desert Island Disc's website.

Speaker 10:20

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen sixty.

Speaker 10:24

and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:26

How do you do, ladies and gentlemen?

Presenter0:28

Our castaway this week is a very famous conductor. Many of his records have preceded him to our desert island. It's Ontal Dorati.

Presenter0:37

mister Dorati, have you had any prolonged experience of loneliness in your life?

Antal Dorati0:41

No, I never had.

Presenter0:42

Do you think you could stand it? I think I could, yes.

Presenter0:45

A question I sometimes ask is, do you have a big collection of records? Well, if you just had a set of your own, you'd have a a pretty big collection. It said that you've made more long playing records than any other conductor. How many is it?

Antal Dorati0:56

Uh I made about one hundred and thirty, but I could not tell you whether it is more or less than others made.

Presenter1:01

Uh

Antal Dorati1:01

You play the gramophone a lot for pleasure?

Antal Dorati1:04

Not very much, no. I'm making too much music to do that.

Presenter1:08

How did you set about choosing your eight records for this desert island?

Antal Dorati1:11

Well, uh when I got this

Antal Dorati1:14

invitation to this island, to the to be an outcast. Well, I th I thought about the circumstances by which I would get there. Of course it would be an accident. Of course. Fundamentally it would not be an agreeable thing to be on a desert island. It would be something imposed by the force of destiny.

Antal Dorati1:30

And

Antal Dorati1:31

I would think what would I best want? First of all, music.

Antal Dorati1:36

That is necessary. Even if you wouldn't have asked me to choose records or choose music, I would have said music, that's what I want.

Antal Dorati1:43

Being on a desert island is some thing of an ordeal. So, first of all, I would like to have music which would especially help me to

Antal Dorati1:52

bear this ordeal. Then I would like to be consoled with

Antal Dorati1:56

human memories with uh memories and images of love, so I would like to have some love music. I want to have definitely human voices around me, so I want to have singing, I want to have chamber music,

Antal Dorati2:08

I want to have Mozart and I want to have Beethoven.

Presenter2:11

Well, let's get down to cases. What's the first choice?

Antal Dorati2:13

The first is Bach.

Antal Dorati2:15

And it's the cantata Ich wilden Kreutzstab kernitragen.

Antal Dorati2:20

Which is the music to help me to?

Antal Dorati2:22

get pacified with my being on a desert island altogether.

Presenter2:26

Would you like to sing it?

Antal Dorati2:27

And Gerard Souzze will sing it for me.

Presenter2:34

The opening passage of the Bach cantata, Ich Wilden Kreutsch darb Gianner Tragen, sung by Gerard Suze. What's your second choice?

Antal Dorati2:43

Second choice is the beginning of the A minor string quartet by Schubert. This was a very difficult choice to make. Schubert, of course, must be with me, chamber music must be with me, but there was so much to choose from.

Antal Dorati2:57

But this movement lingers with me through all my life and I love it and I want to hear it.

Presenter3:05

The opening passage of the Schubert Quartette, number thirteen in A minor, by Budapest String Quartet.

Presenter3:11

mister Dorati, where were you born?

Antal Dorati3:13

In would a

Presenter3:13

Yeah.

Antal Dorati3:13

Bist.

Presenter3:14

Was either of your parents a musician?

Antal Dorati3:16

Both fair.

Presenter3:17

Where did you study?

Antal Dorati3:18

I studied at the Budapest Academy of Music.

Presenter3:21

I believe you are the youngest musician ever to receive a degree from the Budapest Academy.

Antal Dorati3:25

The young Store one of

Presenter3:26

They are I heard the youngest. What do you think?

Antal Dorati3:29

Possibly so. And both Bartok and Kodai were among your teachers? Officially only Kodai. He was my teacher who gave me the degree. And with Bartok I did work on a full project for four years. So unofficially he was my teacher. Yes.

Presenter3:43

Has it always been conducting that interested you most, right from the start?

Antal Dorati3:47

Yes, I always wanted to conduct. But I came to conducting in the natural way by doing it, not by somehow studying it in an abstract way. I was a practical musician, still am, playing instruments and performing and composing and doing music in a general way.

Speaker 34:04

Hm. Where did you make your professional debut? In Budapest.

Antal Dorati4:07

with the Woodapist Philharmonic Orchestra.

Speaker 34:10

And then?

Antal Dorati4:11

And then I conducted at the opera. From there on I went to Dresden as assistant of Fritz Busch, where I stayed only one year because I got a job as director of a small opera house in Western Germany.

Antal Dorati4:22

From there on I began freelancing.

Antal Dorati4:25

And my freelance life led me to Paris, where I started to be involved with radio. I organized radio orchestras. That was a very new medium at that time. It was very fascinating.

Antal Dorati4:37

And I would have continued that, but then I got a call to conduct the Ballet Rust de Monte Carlo in England, which I accepted. I went there and I thought I only do this for one day, but it became a many years' association.

Presenter4:51

And that took you all over the world. That did, yes. It was in nineteen forty one you decided to become a a permanent resident of the United States.

Antal Dorati4:59

Yes, actually I think I decided that sooner, in nineteen thirty seven.

Antal Dorati5:03

I was thirty-eight, and I became a citizen by nineteen forty-three.

Antal Dorati5:08

And it just happened that I got more and more work in the United States and then it was put to me that it w would be the nicest thing to be the citizen of the country which gives me my bread, which wa was indeed so.

Presenter5:18

Wait for how much

Presenter5:19

Other than that.

Antal Dorati5:21

Have record number three. What next?

Presenter5:22

Uh

Antal Dorati5:22

This will uh take us back to Hungary and will take us back to the Royal Opera House there, which was not royal anymore at that time.

Antal Dorati5:30

But I still remember it that way.

Antal Dorati5:32

And also to my teacher Kodai, this will be a duet from Hari Yanosh.

Antal Dorati5:37

Sang by the original cast.

Antal Dorati5:39

And I was there when it was first performed. I was right in the middle of this, so it's a very personal record. Also, one of the most beautiful love duets in the world.

Presenter5:51

A duet from Kodai's opera Haryanos sung by Imre Paolo and Isabella Nach.

Presenter5:59

mister Dorati, we'd taken up your career as far as the time when you decided to settle in the United States. What was the next milestone?

Antal Dorati6:07

Well, the next milestone was when I specialized more or less on symphony conducting. This word came out of my mouth not willingly, this word specialization, because I'm really the one who fights against it. And uh really the fighting against spe specialization is taking me away from a job and takes me to another. Because I think one must be a general person, one must be a general musician.

Antal Dorati6:31

and not uh specialized for anything. So when I did Somballi and the people thought that that's what I could do only, I I was sick and tired of it and wanted to do something else. Now that I have done fifteen years of symphony conducting I want to do opera again.

Antal Dorati6:49

Uh

Presenter6:49

In 1945 you you reformed the Dallas Symphony Orchestra which had been suspended during the war. It must have been an exciting task to build up an orchestra practically from scratch.

Antal Dorati6:58

Yes, that was very, very exciting and that's a unique chance in a lifetime and I'm eternally grateful that I had this chance. Uh to describe it would take many many hours so I don't even go into it but it was really something out of this world to create a fine orchestra in the span of about two months time.

Presenter7:14

How long did you stay in Dallas?

Antal Dorati7:16

Four years. And then? Then I went to to Minneapolis, where I headed the symphony for eleven years.

Presenter7:22

You've just resigned from the NIH.

Antal Dorati7:23

I just went away from there, yes.

Presenter7:24

What are your plans now?

Antal Dorati7:25

Now I'm freelancing.

Antal Dorati7:27

And I c concentrate on

Antal Dorati7:30

doing all the concerts and opera performances which I like to do. I'm I'm happily in the situation that I've got more invitations than I can cope with. And I also write music.

Presenter7:40

Mhm. Do you find that orchestral musicians differ much temperamentally in different countries?

Antal Dorati7:45

No, I find that this is the most international crowd you can imagine.

Antal Dorati7:49

Musicians are the same everywhere. They even look alike.

Presenter7:53

Let's have record number four.

Antal Dorati7:56

This will be again a Hungarian one, if you don't mind.

Antal Dorati7:59

And this is a Bartok record. It's a very deep, tremendous, tragic record. And if you ask me why I want such tragic music on a desert island, because tragedy is part of life.

Antal Dorati8:11

Which is the work?

Antal Dorati8:12

This is the second movement from Bartok's Divertimento for String Orchestra.

Presenter8:19

The opening of the second movement of Bartok's Divertimento for Strings, Your Own Recording with the Philharmonia Hungarica.

Presenter8:27

Well, mister Dorati, as you said just now, you you've never specialized. You like to conduct a very wide range of music, don't you?

Antal Dorati8:32

Yeah.

Presenter8:32

Yeah.

Antal Dorati8:32

Oh yes, I think that's one of the foremost uh tasks of a conductor and of a performing musician in general, that he should gear his taste to widest radios possible.

Presenter8:43

You've given the first performance o of a number of outstanding modern works. Which ones do you do you value most?

Antal Dorati8:49

That is almost impossible to tell, because I given so many and at the moment of their performance each one was the most important thing in my life.

Antal Dorati8:58

But maybe I say, and again, a Bartok memory, that is his last work, his posthumous work, the Viola Concerto, which was a very.

Antal Dorati9:06

It's a heartbreaking and wonderful thing to perform for the first time.

Presenter9:09

On the lighter side, you've also arranged a lot of Offenbach for Ballet, you've recorded some Gershwind.

Antal Dorati9:14

Oh yes, Offenbach, Johan Strauss, Gershwin, many, many uh things of this I do and like to do. And there are no such discs on on

Antal Dorati9:23

the desert island collection, but I assure you I will whisper some at least.

Presenter9:27

Now, your own compositions, which of your works have pleased you most?

Antal Dorati9:31

When I write them I like all of them, and later I'm terribly critical of them. But in general I'm quite pleased with my new output.

Presenter9:39

Have you any particular ambitions still unfulfilled, either as a a conductor or as a composer?

Antal Dorati9:45

I have an ambition in general that I would like to be a much better person and a much better artist than I am and I hope that I still continue that. That's a general ambition.

Presenter9:54

You want to have more

Antal Dorati9:54

You want to have more special things as a composer? Yes, I want to write an opera. Have you the story?

Antal Dorati10:00

I have no story yet, unfortunately. I was looking for years and accepted many and then everyone I rejected. I'm now writing a ballet, which I you contend is a study for an opera.

Speaker 110:07

Well now

Antal Dorati10:11

And immediately after I finished, I set my task that I will find the libretto and I will I will do it.

Presenter10:17

We should look forward to that.

Presenter10:19

For record number five, we've got to. What have we got now?

Antal Dorati10:23

Record number five is uh A Brahms Symphony, the third movement of the second symphony, which is one of my favorite pieces. There I chose a record of mine.

Antal Dorati10:32

also to be reminded of my own conducting.

Antal Dorati10:35

By some little piece.

Presenter10:40

The beginning of the third movement of the Bram's Second Symphony, your recording with the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter10:46

What next?

Antal Dorati10:48

Next is Mozart, and I'm not so sure that I will wait until the sixth record on the island itself.

Antal Dorati10:53

There again I had to choose at random.

Antal Dorati10:56

And I wanted to combine this with human voices. So here is the

Antal Dorati11:01

Pamina, Papageno do it from.

Antal Dorati11:03

the magic flute, which is tender and humorous and beautiful.

Presenter11:11

The duet between Pamina and Papageno from Mozart's The Magic Flute, Sir Thomas Beacham conducting, the singers Tiana Lemnitz and Gerhard Husch.

Presenter11:22

mister Dorati, how well equipped do you think you are as a castaway? Could you look after yourself? Are you good with your hands?

Antal Dorati11:27

Oh yes, I'm f fairly good, very good indeed. I think I could make myself a house, I could do all sorts of things, making tools, and I'd be all right. Right. One thing I couldn't do is cooking.

Presenter11:37

One thing I

Antal Dorati11:39

I think I would have to live on fruits. Mhm. New fish?

Antal Dorati11:43

No, I don't like to fish. I think uh that's not a particular art. I think I could fish if I had to.

Antal Dorati11:50

But I but I don't like either uh fishing or shooting. I don't like to kill animals. The only living thing I was ever shooting at were watermelons. Watermelons? Successfully? Oh yes, I got some of them.

Antal Dorati12:02

Could you do it with a bow and arrow?

Antal Dorati12:04

I I I think I could do that too. Yes, I did shoot with bow bow and arrow. Oh then you're going to be all right.

Antal Dorati12:09

Yeah.

Presenter12:09

Let's get on back to music at number seven.

Antal Dorati12:11

Yeah.

Antal Dorati12:12

Number seven will be again love music, again very beautiful music and again song music. It will be the end of the first act from Otello.

Presenter12:24

The closing passage of Act I of Verdis Otello

Presenter12:28

Toscanini conducting and Raymond Vinet and Hervanelli singing.

Presenter12:33

Now your last one. What's that going to be?

Antal Dorati12:36

The last one again will be an opera and I left it as for the last because it's one of my most personal favorites and that's from Fidelio.

Antal Dorati12:44

And I choose this moment when Florestan is freed and Florestan and Fidelio Leonora look at each other and enjoy the moment of freedom and of being reunited again, which is the most moving thing I can imagine in music or elsewhere, in art.

Presenter13:00

Uh

Antal Dorati13:00

Yeah.

Presenter13:01

Yeah.

Presenter13:04

A duet from the second act of Beethoven's Fidelio, sung by Marta Merdel and Wolfgang Windgassen.

Presenter13:11

There are your eight records, mister Dorati. If you could only have one, which would it be? It would be definitely the Fidelio.

Presenter13:17

And as every castaway is allowed one luxury, you have one too. What would you like to take?

Antal Dorati13:24

Well, uh, I have got two things in mind. May I tell about both and I make up my mind while I'm telling it. One would be a painting.

Antal Dorati13:31

By an Italian master Domenico Fetti, representing a sleeping girl. That was my greatest.

Antal Dorati13:39

love as a child and as a young man in Budapest. It hangs in the museum there. I hope it still does.

Antal Dorati13:46

And the other object of art

Antal Dorati13:49

which I would like to take along with me would be uh Madonna.

Antal Dorati13:53

A wooden carved Madonna from the fifteenth century from the northern France, which is my own, which I

Antal Dorati13:59

Oh, very happily.

Antal Dorati14:02

It would be definitely one of these things. Now you you you got to

Antal Dorati14:06

No witch, huh?

Presenter14:07

We'd like to know which one.

Antal Dorati14:08

Okay, all right, the painting.

Presenter14:10

The fake

Antal Dorati14:10

Pinterest. Because I don't have it.

Antal Dorati14:14

And the book will be an anthology of poems. I think I read like to read on the desert island many things, short things. It must be all in one book.

Antal Dorati14:22

And I got only one condition for this wish, that I should be the one to make the anthology before I would be marooned.

Presenter14:29

All right, you shall. Thank you, Aunt Al Dorati, for letting us hear your choice of Desert Island Discs. It was a great pleasure to be with you on this island. Goodbye, everyone.