Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Speaker 10:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1978 and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week is a politician.

Presenter0:32

THE RIGHT HONOURABLE LORD SHENWORL.

Presenter0:35

Lord Shinwell, is music an interest of yours?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell0:38

Yes, I I've always been interested in music. I don't know anything about it technically.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell0:43

Nothing at all.

Presenter0:45

How did you set about choosing your discs for the desert island? Are you choosing nostalgically?

Presenter0:51

Or great artists or

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell0:52

So I've tried to associate them with my experiences.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell0:58

To associate them with uh where I was born, where I lived, where I worked, the people I met, and so on. That's what I had in mind, and that's what I've tried to do. Where do we start? What's your first one?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:12

Well, the the uh the first one is uh one that's uh uh a bit nostalgic.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:18

Er my mother

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:21

And the rest of us all, she um

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:24

Went to uh one of the operas a long time ago. I think it was the Bohemian Girl, and she uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:32

And she listened to uh one song where I dreamt I dwelt in marble halls.

Presenter1:37

Hi, yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:38

And I remember her singing it.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:40

And and uh she had a very nice voice. She wasn't not a wonderful singer. She was a beautiful woman, I will say that.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:48

But uh and our lovely mother.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell1:51

But I remember seeing that and I would like that so.

Speaker 42:04

Happy Lord is real.

Presenter2:48

I dreamt I dwelt in marble halls from Balf's The Bohemian Girl, sung by Joan Sutherland.

Presenter2:56

In fact, despite that Scots burr, you are a Londoner, aren't you?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:00

Well, I acquired this uh kind of refined Glasgow accent, you know not the rough uh Glasgow accent. I acquired it by living there.

Presenter3:05

Rough

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:10

But I was born in London, way back about eighteen eighty four, it's quite a long time ago. You were in fact one of thirteen children, I believe.

Presenter3:18

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:19

Yes, they all followed me.

Presenter3:21

Yeah, I was the eldest. How old were you when you left school?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:21

Yeah, I was the eldest

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:27

About eleven years and nine months.

Presenter3:30

Sh And what did you do? What was your first job?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:33

Well, at first I became an errand boy for my father, who was a a master tailor.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell3:39

And uh he usually had a workshop and I but I couldn't stand it. So I got a job with a tobacco firm, F. and J. Smith, in Glasgow. I first of all had a wage of four shillings a week, thruddling a barrow and delivering tobacco. Then I was promoted to become a van boy. I had to get at the the back of the van and when we stopped at his shop, I was tearing tobacconists. I'd jump out, deliver the tobacco, then jump back, and then uh I'd work until about seven o'clock at night when I had to help to put the horse away.

Presenter4:10

You were one of millions of rather underprivileged children, and one of the few who set about educating himself. Now what inspired you to do that?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:20

I think I have to thank my mother.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:24

to a large extent, because she was inclined to refuse to read those penny novellas.

Presenter4:29

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:29

She was a bit r romantic.

Presenter4:29

Uh

Presenter4:31

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:31

And uh sentimental. He said, Edmund, I used to read whenever I got an opportunity. My father had a workshop in Glasgow.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:40

and quite a number of Irish people used to come in, and there was one man who was a schoolmaster it was a cousin of my father's, and he took an interest in me.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:49

Uh when I was only about uh oh, I could have been any more than about uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell4:54

probably twelve, thirteen round about the time, took an interest in me and he suggested I should go to the the library and read books. I never bothered about that. I was interested in sport, I was interested in boxing, in sprinting, in football. I was a member of a junior football club and so on and and I didn't bother about that. But I took his advice and I went along to the central library in Glasgow and I looked at the catalogue and I picked out some of them on philosophy, on science and so on. Darwin. Oh no, I started with H. G. Wells, somebody's science fiction, that sort of thing. That gave me the opening gambit.

Presenter5:34

I see.

Presenter5:40

And one led to another.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell5:42

We have

Presenter5:42

That's

Presenter5:43

Let's have another record. Watch your second one.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell5:46

When I lived in Glasgow I I'd like to go to the um uh the Theatre Royal sometimes to listen to the opera. And sometimes I only had to pay uh, oh, what about sixpence or ninepence to sit in the gallery on a hard seat. But I I like the operatic music, particularly the Italian music. And I remember

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell6:07

Uh one of the opera cabler Russicana and the internet.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell6:12

Which I think is a lovely piece of music. I'd like to hear it.

Presenter7:15

The intimerzo from Cavalleria Rosticana

Presenter7:18

The Orchestra of La Scalo Milan, conducted by Cadigan.

Presenter7:23

During the

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:24

Yeah.

Presenter7:24

What

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:25

World War you thought of joining the navy.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:28

Well, uh, as a matter of fact, I ran away from home several times.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:33

Because somehow my father was inclined to be a bit harsh. I don't think he meant it, but after all he had a great he had a struggle.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:40

Uh most of the time and uh sometimes there was plenty of work, sometimes there was no work, sometimes the work didn't pay.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:48

And probably that affected his temper.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell7:51

And when he was inclined to be harsh, I didn't like it, so I used to just uh leave home. And one in case I left home, I walked from Glasgow to the single sewing machine factory at Delmuir, seven miles away.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:04

And I got a job at least I was offered a job. And and I walked back walked back. But my mother g collared me at night, got me with the scruff of the neck, and took me home. I didn't get a hiding, I got some food, which I needed very badly, and I had done during the day.

Speaker 18:10

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:20

But the

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:21

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:22

But uh the conditions were pretty bad most of the time.

Presenter8:26

You did all sorts of jobs at that time.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:28

I had se several jobs until

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:32

Eventually I um I agreed to work with my father for a while and then

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell8:38

He uh left Glasgow to go and take uh take on a job in in South Shields as manager of a clothing factory and I went down and worked with him for a while and then left. I didn't like South Shields anyhow. I was getting into trouble there. As a matter of fact, it was suggested to me that I should join a a a boxing booth, one of those booths front of the marketplaces.

Speaker 18:58

Uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell9:01

Because when I was in Glasgow I used to go to a gymnasium and punch the ball and sometimes I put on the gloves. Occasionally with a professional boxer and I was rather liked it. And indeed if it wasn't for my father I might have become a professional boxer. But he the idea of boxing to him is was most undignified. You know, not the sort of thing a respectable family would indulge in.

Presenter9:26

So you began to get mixed up in politics. Now, you've been a member of either the House of Commons or the House of Lords, with only two short gaps, since nineteen twenty two, isn't it?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell9:37

I stood first for Parliament in nineteen eighteen for the uh the county of Lynmithgow, otherwise known as West Lothian. That's the place where Mary, Queen of Scots, was born. But uh don't blame me for that, by the way. But uh then I I didn't win that time. That was the so-called coupon election when Lloyd George formed a coalition with the Conservatives immediately after the First World War. I got the highest uh Labour vote in any county of Scotland at that time.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:09

It wasn't bad in the circumstances. But I stood again in nineteen twenty two and won the seat. Yes. And then at the end of nineteen twenty three and beginning of twenty four, Macdonald formed a government for the first time. It was a minority government, and I became a member of that government.

Presenter10:26

Matt was the

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:27

The first letter

Presenter10:27

Hippocampus

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:27

At first I was a member of that and then I was a member of the second government in nineteen twenty nine to thirty one. In'thirty one when he decided to form a national government, he wanted me to remain in the government, in the new government, but I refused.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:43

And I was out for four years until nineteen thirty five when I decided to go down to Durham.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:51

instead of remaining in Scotland.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell10:54

I went down to Durham, and I got the CM seat, and I fought Ramsey MacDonald, and I won with a majority of nearly twenty one thousand.

Presenter11:02

And you were in the House of Commons until, what, about eight years ago when you were a noble

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell11:06

I had se about seven years in a Scottish seat and I had thirty-five years in Durham.

Presenter11:13

It's time we had another record. What shall we have next?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell11:16

I think we should have something lively. Now, see, I was born in London. Born in London. So.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell11:25

I think something about London. What about Bud Flanagan?

Presenter11:29

Well, there's a character.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell11:31

He was a character.

Speaker 411:41

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner.

Speaker 411:46

That I love London so.

Speaker 411:52

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner that I think of her wherever I go.

Presenter12:02

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner by Bud Flanagan.

Presenter12:06

Now, your first senior post in government

Presenter12:10

was just after the last war as Minister of Fuel and Power. And you had very bad luck because you just happened happened to hit the time of the great fuel crisis during the freeze-up of January and February nineteen forty seven.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell12:24

But it never was a fuel crisis, anyhow.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell12:27

It was a transport crisis, and the transport difficulty wa became even worse when the weather

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell12:34

was became in w in the opinion of most people the worst for fifty years.

Speaker 412:34

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell12:40

And so there was enough call. Now I couldn't say anything about it because of the Official Secrets Act. I had to wait for thirty years until the Cabinet papers are placed in the Public Record Office and I've been completely vindicated. Although I must admit this there was one man in the Government

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell12:58

who had the decency

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:00

and honesty in public.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:03

to say that it had nothing to do with me at all, and that was Attlee himself, the Prime Minister.

Presenter13:08

Hmm.

Presenter13:09

Well then you became Secretary of State for War.

Presenter13:12

That person give you a seat in the cab.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:14

No, it so happened that there was a change made after the um after the war. Instead of having the service ministers in the cabinet, they would have cabinet rank.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:26

but a Minister of Defence was appointed, who had control over the three services.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:31

and the Secretary of Seat for War, the First Lord of the Admiralty, and the Secretary of Seat for Air, although of Cabinet rank, were not actually members of the Cabinet, except when they were invited to attend.

Presenter13:44

So when you became minister of

Presenter13:47

of of defence afterwards, it r is really a promotion.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell13:50

Oh, well, I went but yeah, I was returned to the Cabinet. Although it didn't mean that I wasn't in touch with the Cabinet during the period when I was sent to the war. I was frequently in attendance there.

Speaker 113:59

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:02

In 1950 we had another election and then uh the Prime Ministers had to be uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:07

You better now go to the Ministry of Defence.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:11

I'd had the experience of the ward office.

Presenter14:13

How did you get on with the generals?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:15

Wonderfully well.

Presenter14:17

There's a there's a story that that Montgomery used to give you some rather unlikely presents for

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:22

The most of the the happiest time in my political life was when I was at the War Office. Now I I it was suggested, it uh it was alleged, put it this way,

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:34

uh that m my colleagues uh wanted me to go to the ward office'cause they were quite sure I'd have trouble with Montgomery, who was regarded as a very difficult person to cooperate with.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:45

On the contrary, I no sooner got first of all, I had a letter from him.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:50

Uh extending a welcome.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:53

But at the same time General Steele was the adjutant general.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell14:57

informed me that the generals were going to resign because I had arrived, because of my reputation.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:05

I had a reputation for being rather blustering and and dictat dictatorial and etcetera, etcetera. I don't have very good reputation, and they were going to resign.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:16

But the remarkable thing is that when I had to leave the War Office in nineteen fifty to go to the Ministry of Defence, the same General Steele came to me

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:26

He was still adjudant general.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:30

And he came to him and said, you know, when you came here, we were going to resign and and now that you're going to leave us, we're we're threatening to resign.

Presenter15:38

Tell us about General Montgomery's presence.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:40

Mr. McCavari was a wonderful person to work with.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:44

I remember one day he walked into my room. He had his hands behind his back, and he came and he put a bottle of whisky on my desk. I said, What's this for? He says, For you.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell15:54

I said, Where'd you get it from? He said, This is my allotment from Naffi And he used to he used to frequently he'd send me a letter. I've soon got them. He'd say, I'm sending you some medicine.

Presenter16:07

Uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:07

That's what it was.

Presenter16:08

That was his nephew Allowance.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:09

Well I don't know whether it came from.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:12

Yeah.

Presenter16:12

Another record. What should we have?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:16

Well, um I I I would like something to remind me of Glasgow.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:23

And if I am to be reminded of Glasgow, I must remind myself of one of the greatest comedians and vocalists.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:31

that Scotland has ever produced, and that was William Fife.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell16:35

And uh he will tell us all about Glasgow, I'm sure.

Speaker 416:40

I prolonged the Glasgow, dear old Glasgow town.

Speaker 416:46

There's something the matter with glass go, for it's going round and round.

Speaker 116:51

Bye.

Speaker 416:53

I'm only a common old workin' lad, as anyone can see, But when I get a couple of drinks, Saturday Glasgow belongs to me.

Presenter17:09

Will Fife.

Presenter17:11

Now among the many distinguished people you've known outside the world of politics have been many writers. You kept up all your life your great interest in books.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell17:21

I read all sorts of things.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell17:23

I had to read, because it's impossible to speak unless you read.

Presenter17:33

And you've written a number of books yourself, Memoirs and Histories?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell17:38

Quite a lot. Well, it's it it is remarkable in a way because I left school at such an early age that I I I knew nothing about composition. It simply happened.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell17:49

And but I it's been a struggle. But I was able to write. I I didn't find it so difficult to write articles. That I've done and did quite a lot of that.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell17:58

But uh writing books was is a different proposition because one has to get a lot of research done and I I was never a good researcher.

Presenter18:08

Uh your last two records have taken us to uh London and and Glasgow. Where does the next one take us?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell18:13

When I was associated with the Siemens Movement, I had to visit Ireland several times and I got to know many of the Prime Ministers in South in the South of Ireland, many of their prominent politicians in the North.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell18:25

But I've also had the opportunity and the privilege of listening to some of their vocalists.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell18:31

like that fam famous John McCormick.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell18:35

I could remember

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell18:36

That wonderful song of his, Bother McCree.

Speaker 418:39

Every sorrow or a care in the dear days gone by Was made bright by the light of the smile in your eyes.

Speaker 418:54

Like a candle that's set in a window at night, Your fond love has cheered me and guided me

Presenter19:08

John McCormick singing Mother McCree, a recording he made in nineteen twenty seven.

Presenter19:14

There's a story that uh on one of your Irish trips you did indeed kiss the Blowny Stone.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:19

Well, I'll tell you what happened. I was a member of the Scottish Trade Union Congress.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:25

And I was sent as a delegate to the Irish Trade Union Congress in 1920.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:32

Quite a long time ago, the time o when the Black and Tans were operating in Ireland.

Speaker 119:36

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:37

But I went over and it was decided by the Executive of the Congress to go on a Sunday to Blarney Castle to visit. I had never been there before.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:48

Well

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:49

We were in a shadow bomb w and the shadow bomb went off. When we uh got out a few miles out of out of Cork.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell19:56

Uh the Bracken Tens stopped us, took us all out.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell20:01

Now, all my colleagues were members of the Irish executive and could vouch if they produce their credentials. But but I was a stranger. So they put me up against the wall. And I remember they frisked me. But all they could find was a tin of tobacco in my pocket. So they let me off. And then off we went to uh

Speaker 120:17

Sure, so maybe

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell20:21

And I I was held by the legs and uh head down and kissed the brandy stone. And I've I've never stopped talking since.

Presenter20:31

Now nobody could ever estimate how many thousands of speeches you've made from soap boxes on street corners to the House of Lords, but you'll never have notes. Now what's the secret of of being able to speak like that?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell20:44

I haven't used a note for speaking either in the commons or the lords.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell20:50

or at a function, whether dinner, or whatever it may be, for

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell20:58

Must be forty five, probably fifty years. Occasionally I would uh when I was a minister, of course I had to use a brief very often.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell21:09

Uh and sometimes reply with a brief, but very often I would reply without a brief.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell21:15

I always uh found it an encumbrance to be using notes, and to read a speech was against my principles. I would just get up and talk. Now that I've I've developed a kind of technique there. I I I have to get two or three clear ideas in my head. If my ideas are clear to me, then I I can express them. Yeah.

Presenter21:37

We got to record six. What are we having next?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell21:40

On one occasion I had to go to Vienna, it was in nineteen twenty I had to attend an international conference.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell21:47

And when I was there they uh invited me to go to the uh s a state performance at the uh I forget the name of the uh place, the Scala or something of the sort.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell22:02

where they were they they put on the Meister Singers and I listened to a wonderful song, The Prize Song, and I've always remembered it, and I think it's one of the finest pieces of music.

Speaker 422:43

Very and wonderbum, von Fricht and Reich Berhum.

Speaker 122:43

Yeah.

Speaker 122:45

Ah

Speaker 422:52

So shall I surgery mysterious? Must extra feet

Speaker 423:05

Inverts doth shing star.

Presenter23:14

James McCracken, the prize song from The Master Singers. Now you've talked about your interest in sport.

Presenter23:21

So you ought to be quite handy on a desert island at looking after yourself. You could rig up some sort of shelter, do you think?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell23:27

I don't think I'm any good at that at all. No, no. I think the first thing I would do would go I would reconnoitre. There might even be a bottle about there. If I saw a bottle and a piece of paper, I the first thing I would do, I would write in my name and say where I was, and then I would throw it into the water in the hope that it would return some day.

Speaker 123:36

And if

Presenter23:47

Let's get back to music. What have we got next?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell23:50

I know that I've had some experience of the North East, Durham.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell23:55

And uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell23:57

I have uh listened to uh the

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell24:01

The Durham dialect. Sometimes it's almost impossible to understand it. But there's one song that I've heard several times that I like, and there's a man I met. He died a few years ago, and I remember meeting him all just almost before he died at a function in London, Owen Brannigan.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell24:20

She gained blade in races.

Speaker 424:22

I went to Bladen Races, was on the 9th of June, 1862 on a summer's afternoon. I took the bus for bambooz, and she was heavy laden. Away we went along Collingwood Street, that's on the road to Bladen. Oh, and she should've seen us gannin'. Pussin' the folks along the road, just as they was standing. There was lots of lads and lassie there, all was smiling faces. Gannin' alang the Scotford Road up to see the Bladen Races.

Presenter24:56

Owen Brannigan.

Presenter24:57

And now

Presenter24:58

Your last record, what's that?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:00

I can't claim to be an authority on classical music.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:05

But some members of my family my late wife, for example, was very was almost an expert in matters of this sort, and very fond of music.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:14

and taught me a little about it.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:17

But sometimes I'd been entranced.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:20

Fascinating.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:22

listening to some of these symphonies.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:25

And now, if there is one symphony.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:29

that I could listen to.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:32

Throughout the whole of my life, over and over again, to be repeated, it's the Ninth Symphony.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:38

Have a

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell25:39

Beethoven.

Presenter26:41

The opening of the last movement of Beethoven's ninth symphony, Otto Klempere conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra. Now you've played us your eight chosen records. If you were only allowed to take one disc, which would it be?

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell26:55

I'd be a bit isolated, I'd be a bit inclined to be a bit despondent some day, so I'd want to hear my old friend Will Fife.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:04

Singing

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:06

I belong to Glasgow, with a bit of his patter.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:10

And one luxury to take to the island with you.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:13

I've never wanted luxuries. I've uh I what I will want is n necessaries, not luxuries.

Presenter27:21

What would you say to a case or two of scotch?

Presenter27:24

Uh

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:24

I know I know you're talking, I know, of course, now I know we're pragmatic.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:32

Some considerable time ago I was advised by a p a professor of medicine that I ought to take medicine every four hours. Every four hours.

Presenter27:41

Yeah.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:43

I want to know which

Presenter27:43

Brandy should be as Let us have a note of that. We'll see what we can do. And you're allowed to take one book, putting aside the the Bible and Shakespeare and big encyclopedias.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell27:55

If I'm going to be on that desert island for some time, I I I've got to have a book.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell28:00

which will occupy me two or three years. Now it must be then the D Oxford Dictionary of Quotations. Right. It's got almost everything, it's got poetry, it's got prose. It would take me at least two or three years to get through that book if I really want to apply myself,'cause I don't want to memorize it.

Presenter28:21

Right.

Presenter28:22

And thank you, Lord Chinwell, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Rt. Hon. Lord Shinwell28:26

Thank you for allowing me to come.

Presenter28:29

Goodbye everyone.

Speaker 128:39

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.