Charles Aznavour

Charles Aznavour0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive.

Charles Aznavour0:05

For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in 1978 and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:31

On our Desert Island this week is the international entertainer, songwriter and actor Charles Aznavour.

Presenter0:37

Are you an optimist? Oh, yes, of course. So you think you'd be rescued pretty soon?

Presenter0:42

Oh, sure.

Presenter0:44

Just a little bit of

Charles Aznavour0:44

I'm a survivor.

Presenter0:46

Just to be on the safe side, you'd better be prepared by choosing records that last a long time. What's the first record you've chosen? I've chosen a record with um a big group, big choir, you know. Russian music, because I like Russian music.

Presenter1:01

It's not exactly my origin.

Presenter1:03

Because I'm Armenian. But it's near, you know? Yes. Well, Armenia is is in Russia now, isn't it? Technically. It's technically, yes. But I'm technically in Europe, you know. Right. Uh, so I I choose a Kalinka, which I think as a choir is fantastic. Of course I'm not very keen of the tenor voice they have in but because I prefer Italian kind of uh tenor. But the record is fantastic, so I choose that one.

Charles Aznavour2:11

Ah

Presenter2:27

Kalinka by the Soviet Army Ensemble. Now Armenian, but born in Paris, right, Charles? Yes.

Presenter2:35

I'm quoting you, who say that no Armenians are are born in Armenia. And not much.

Presenter2:40

Were your parents born in Armenia? My father was born in Georgia, not in America. As you see through my accent, my Georgia is another Georgia, Georgia in Russia, near Russia. And my mother was was born in

Presenter2:51

In Turkey. Of course she was she has been born in in the Armenian part of Turkey because yeah, well it's in like in every country when they had a war and things they took it over. But it was Turkey. Are both your parents artists and performers? Yes, actors, singers. And let me quote you again, you were born to the sound of music. Yes, yes, um but I've I've been on stage in the belly of my mother.

Presenter3:15

But your parents, your mother and father, were not or less very successful artists. They were definitely successful artists in their own

Charles Aznavour3:19

No, no, no, no, no.

Presenter3:22

Country for their own country, yes. And after that, for their own community. But they couldn't be a successful artist.

Charles Aznavour3:23

From my own.

Presenter3:29

in France those days in another language than than French.

Presenter3:35

You started very early in life to help financially by doing all sorts of odd jobs. I started at nine years old in show business.

Presenter3:43

And financially I had to help the family, so I became the

Presenter3:47

I became the father of the family, and I'm still uh are the the father of the family. It's a fantastic uh

Presenter3:55

A sensation to be that, you know, sensation, to be the father of the family, to take care of everything. My father, which is eighty-one years old.

Charles Aznavour3:58

Yeah.

Speaker 33:58

Yeah.

Charles Aznavour3:58

Uh

Presenter4:03

He's my son. We know that, both of us we know it. It's a nice relationship.

Presenter4:08

And you used to work in talent contests and you sold newspapers? Talent contests in in Lily Cafe. Yes. Not in not in big places. Oh, no, no, no. We had talent contests everywhere. You know the hook.

Speaker 34:15

Oh no

Charles Aznavour4:15

Oh no no.

Presenter4:19

You know the hook was made to hook you out of the stage if you were put by the by the public. So I've never been

Charles Aznavour4:21

Yeah.

Presenter4:30

Oaked. Well done. You used to do imitations? Yes, plenty. Chaplain? Mayol. Mayol. Chevalier.

Charles Aznavour4:34

Mayo.

Presenter4:36

Uh and others. When did you leave school? How old were you? Very early.

Presenter4:42

Too early to talk about.

Presenter4:44

For a writer is a shame, you know. And then you were a child actor. Yes. In some very distinguished Parisian productions.

Charles Aznavour4:44

The writer

Presenter4:52

Oh yes, I've been uh in Margot of Edouard Bourdet uh with

Presenter4:59

Pierre Frenet, Yvonne Prenton, and many other great actors have been a small part of the Oleon, which was a national theatre excuse me, you can think of your art, how your heart, you know what I mean. I've been uh in a German play called Emile Les Detective. Yes, a children's play. Yes.

Charles Aznavour5:06

Which rise

Presenter5:18

I I I was the negro boy because I I in French I'm very good for accents.

Presenter5:23

And you played in Shakespeare? Well, let's say I've been in a Shakespeare play. But I I was the how do you call it? The L'Enfant Cure? The choir boy. In uh Boca Bruispour, yeah. Um much ado about nothing. Yes, yes. I had nothing to do there. But being there was for me fantastic because I can say today that I'm an ac I'm a Shakespearean actor. Of course you are. Now you had.

Charles Aznavour5:45

Hey what?

Presenter5:47

An impoverished childhood. Was it a happy childhood? Oh, very happy. Very, very happy. Very warm.

Charles Aznavour5:50

No, very happy.

Presenter5:53

Well, the Armenians are warm people. Yes. They cry much, but they laugh much too. Had you many brothers and sisters? I have only one sister. One sister. Yes.

Presenter6:01

Let's have your second record. What's that to be? It's a Christmas song.

Presenter6:06

Because if you are in a desert island

Presenter6:08

I guess for Christmas you must have a Christmas song, you know, and one of the best, I guess. Uh i in the classical way, uh, because there is white Christmas of course, but this one is more uh classical. God rest you, merry gentleman, by being crossed.

Speaker 36:24

God rest you, merry gentlemen, let nothing you dismay Remember Christ our Saviour was born on Christmas Day.

Speaker 36:40

To save us all from Satan's power.

Charles Aznavour6:40

Save us all.

Speaker 36:44

When we were gone astray, Oh tidings have come forth and joy.

Presenter6:53

Bing Crosby. Now, you were in your teens and the war started. How did you manage during the German occupation?

Presenter7:01

First I started with a small business of my own.

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Uh I think they used to call that black market.

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I went from German trucks to German trucks.

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to sell some

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Very thin chocolate and uh very bad stockings.

Presenter7:20

Terrible perfume, but it was new for them, and they had plenty of money, and with that money I could take care of the family. And I hope you charge them double.

Presenter7:30

At least. And then when the theaters opened again, I went back to Shobis. Yes. We met together and uh we started to write songs. He was a composer and I wanted to write lyrics. You had one very good success.

Presenter7:54

Yes, the first song I wrote became a success. It was a debut.

Presenter8:00

I've drunk. Hm, that's it. Yes. I've had enough. Yes. For a young man that was very unusual. But I was quite good for that kind of

Presenter8:10

let's say, mood. So it was easy for me to write down what I was doing the day before. And you teamed up with Pierre Roche as duetist? Yes, for eight years. Where did you first meet the the fabulous Pierre?

Presenter8:25

and um radio station.

Presenter8:28

She was going to America and Charles Renet was coming back from America, so they had done a show for both of them. And we were opening the show with Pierre Roche. And because there were no stage door in that place, everyone had to be there before.

Presenter8:44

And we had that luck that they've been there together, Trine.

Presenter8:48

and PF side by side and they

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They like the show and they ask us both

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to go to see them.

Presenter8:56

And all happened like that.

Presenter8:59

Let's break off at that point which was a very important point in your life for the third record. What's that to be? Before I I I met her. It's the PF which uh

Charles Aznavour9:02

Oh yeah.

Presenter9:11

It grabbed me when I was very, very young.

Presenter9:15

And I think it was wo one of the most impressive Piaf, because it's uh the early thirties. It's called the Fagnon L'Alégion.

Presenter9:26

It's about uh

Presenter9:28

The French uh

Presenter9:29

How do you call that? The Legion, yes, that's it. The Fagnon de la Legion, the the colours of o of the Legion. Right.

Speaker 39:37

Uh

Presenter9:37

Uh Are you

Speaker 39:51

Sangloma Frank Munich, a la Period Ilfur.

Presenter10:02

the great Edith Piaff. Now, she had a tremendous influence on your inertia. She made you write she taught you what being a star meant.

Presenter10:12

Yes, but not by talking about that. We have never talked about showbiz together. It's only because I saw how she was working.

Presenter10:22

And that was a

Presenter10:24

some sort of great school for me. But she taught me many other things. To drink well.

Presenter10:30

You were in her entourage, you lived for a while in her.

Charles Aznavour10:34

That was a

Presenter10:36

The one in the corner, you know. They used to say, Who's that man?

Presenter10:40

She must have been a very exhausting lady to listen to the men.

Charles Aznavour10:42

Yeah.

Presenter10:44

Yes, she I've never seen Piaf sleeping at at the right time, you know. For example, she was sleeping two hours here and three hours there while we were working.

Presenter10:53

And suddenly at night she didn't want to go to sleep, and we had to be there with her. And she used to say, I don't know how you manage your young people. You're always sleepy.

Presenter11:02

She was sleeping in the daytime, you know? And she made you write, she made you work

Presenter11:06

No, I used to work no, I was very keen of working. I was writing every day something, coming back with a new song every day.

Presenter11:14

And you used to play first turn. When she was on tour, you would go on first turn? Yes. And after that I used to uh present, be the MC of the of the of the show and rush

Presenter11:27

to take care of the light. The mic, when they they had a mic.

Presenter11:32

A curtain?

Presenter11:34

And after that I was a chauffeur because she trusted me only.

Presenter11:38

And you were writing songs for her, of course? Not much. I haven't written many songs. I wrote only seven songs for Piaf during all those years. The problem was not to find somebody to sing my song. The problem was to well, to be happy only. You were collaborating with quite a a lot of of promising youngsters. You worked with Gilbert Bercot for a while, didn't you? Yes. When he came uh when he came back to France from Brazil, he was the piano player of uh of Jacques Pill. Jacques Pille's uh has been fiancé with Piaf and during that time they were ha they were hand in hand. We had nothing to do, so we wrote songs.

Presenter12:15

What was most important at that time, writing the songs or singing them?

Presenter12:18

Living.

Presenter12:20

Had you a clear idea what you wanted to be, what you wanted to do? No, I wanted to be in show business. I don't know what exactly. I wanted to be a singer. Those days, you know, uh you could survive being

Presenter12:31

an act, a good act, in a show for all your life. N not today, no, no, not now, you know. So our idea was not to become a star, it was to

Presenter12:42

to succeed only in the business we wanted to to be in.

Presenter12:47

Let's have another record. What shall we have? Oh, with pleasure. You like Prokofiev? I like Prokofiev. Do you know Leutnen Tije? I know it by name. I don't think I've ever heard it. Well, there was one one little part in it which bring me back to my uh Russian love. It's uh the troika from Leutnan Leutnen Leutnon Tije, after all. I'm not gonna try to have a good accent, I can't anyway. Lieutenant. L Leift Lieutenant. Left. English way. Kijet. Kijet. Prokofiev.

Charles Aznavour13:12

I didn't

Presenter14:12

Troika from the Lieutenant Keeje Suite by Prokofiev.

Presenter14:17

You started making films, Charles, and and you started straight away at the top, playing leading parts for directors like Franjou and Francois Tuffau, Jean Cocteau. How many have you made now? No, for Jean Cocteau.

Presenter14:30

I have just my face in a movie. He wanted to have all his friends in a movie. So I just have my face for a few seconds and that's it. Was that all? That was the testament to Darfield.

Charles Aznavour14:40

Yeah.

Presenter14:42

Only because he wanted to have all his friends around him. And um.

Presenter14:46

In the Franger picture I have ten minutes, but it's a good role. It's something which

Presenter14:52

Can help you in the in the acting business because it was a strong part for ten minutes but very strong. That was the head against the wall.

Charles Aznavour14:55

Yeah.

Presenter15:01

And then came Thérèse L'Opianiste with Trifaux. That was a a big success. Yes. It was a good success in France. Then it was a big success all over the world and became a success in the classical picture in France after. How many films have you made altogether?

Presenter15:17

Thirty. Thirty. I guess, thirty. Apart from the ones we've mentioned, which are the the ones you would like to talk about? Uh there is uh Le Passage du Rhine, which was the Venice Price, the golden crossing of the Rhine. Yes, uh another one was Horace Sixty two, we heard the price in in in Germany.

Charles Aznavour15:27

Yes.

Speaker 315:31

The crossing of the Rhine.

Speaker 315:38

Yes.

Presenter15:39

And uh Paris in August, e uh Paris Paris Umad May. Oh yes. With a young actress Susan Hampshire. Susan Hampshire. And Alta in Fidelta in Italy with Claire Bloom. Mhm. And uh the Catre Verite with uh with uh Leslie Caron.

Speaker 315:44

It was a young guy

Presenter15:58

Ah yes. And there was one that had uh a war picture that had a very wide distribution taxi for the taxi for

Charles Aznavour16:03

Text of a topic

Presenter16:04

That was a very, very successful picture. And so you've made films in several countries? Oh, several countries. Several kind of directors. New waves and old waves.

Charles Aznavour16:14

Board waves

Presenter16:16

How important are films in the pattern?

Presenter16:19

But I like to act.

Presenter16:21

But it's not as important as that for my life. I prefer of course to sing. Well, you refuse to sing in a film. That's got to be separate.

Charles Aznavour16:29

Yeah.

Presenter16:32

Now, you set out on a kind of world conquest. You were a top star in France, but that wasn't good enough. You wanted to take off for other countries. Yes, everything is too small for me. Hm. But my house.

Presenter16:46

How many countries do you still have to conquer?

Presenter16:49

Not much, I guess.

Presenter16:51

No, it's not conquer.

Presenter16:53

To go. What I like to have is a flag on a map, you know. I haven't been in China.

Presenter16:59

To sing, you know?

Presenter17:00

And I think it's terrible. We have to go to China to sing. I haven't been in India.

Presenter17:05

For so many months every year you you set off on your world tour with your orchestra, your backing group.

Presenter17:11

Your singers, how do you plan your year? We don't know. I don't know. It happened.

Presenter17:17

I don't think he's a really planning so

Presenter17:19

It happened only. Hm, and the rest of the time you're writing.

Presenter17:23

No, no, I write only once a year. When's that?

Presenter17:26

Uh when I when I'm at home for a long while, because I need first of all fifteen days of doing nothing, you know. To relax. Yes, and after that suddenly I when I'm bored of know nothing, um I start to to write. Yes, that old familiar question, which comes first, the idea for the tune or or the lyric? The idea of setting down and write. And see what happens. Yes. Right, another record.

Presenter17:55

Oh, another record. Or something which I heard a long, long time ago and which impressed me for a great deal. And I can say that after I heard that record,

Presenter18:07

I had idea to do a record like that, and I I have done it.

Presenter18:12

I've done it, uh just talking. I've done a a song called Isabel.

Presenter18:17

Which is because of John and Marcia.

Speaker 218:22

John!

Speaker 218:24

Marcia.

Speaker 218:32

Marcia

Speaker 218:38

John?

Presenter18:41

Um

Presenter18:42

Marshall.

Charles Aznavour18:47

Shaw.

Presenter18:50

Marcia?

Speaker 218:50

Uh

Presenter18:52

John and Marcia.

Presenter18:54

Stan Freebert

Presenter18:56

What's the shortest time we've ever written a good song in?

Presenter18:59

Shortest time to write a good song? Yes. Or I think can be two hours.

Presenter19:05

But two hours and forty years. Yes, learning how to do it.

Presenter19:10

When abroad you like to sing translations of your songs, you can say that...

Presenter19:21

If they just face somebody who has a sound, because I obviously my voice is a sound.

Presenter19:26

which is different than the American and the English, it's not enough for me.

Presenter19:30

They have to understand what I'm saying. Because one day I can be out of voice.

Charles Aznavour19:32

We got

Presenter19:34

But still the lyrics will be there.

Presenter19:36

You don't consider yourself, you don't sell yourself as a French artist, you're an international artist, is that right?

Presenter19:42

No, I'm only an artist. I don't want to be French or international or Armenian, nothing. I'm an artist.

Presenter19:48

Your ambition was to become known to

Presenter19:52

Let people in all nations hear your songs. How important to you is money.

Presenter19:58

Oh, it's not the money which is important.

Presenter20:01

It's the conquest which is important. Because if you take a great general, for example, a great warrior.

Speaker 220:01

Be siphon.

Speaker 220:03

Can't play.

Presenter20:09

Was not a question of money. You want what? Territories. What I want is territories. Nevertheless, you make a vast amount of money. I I read a press report that you had had some sort of currency difficulty, some sort of mix-up, and you had been fined one million two hundred thousand pounds. That's that's a very impressive fine. It's very impressio I'm very impressed. We've got to record number six. What's there to be? It's a September song, but by Walter Houston. Walter Houston. Yes.

Presenter20:37

And the days turn to bone.

Presenter20:40

As they grow few.

Presenter20:43

Septemp uh

Presenter20:47

Now they burn.

Presenter20:51

And these few golden days

Presenter20:55

I'd share with you

Presenter20:59

These golden days I'd share with you.

Presenter21:08

Very sad song, September song. Sad but beautiful. Oh, beautiful. Beautiful poetry, and the music is so delicate. Written by the words by Maxwell Anderson. Music by Courtwell. I think it was the first work he has done for English-speaking countries. Courtwell. Directly, yes. Sung, of course, by Walter Houston. On this.

Charles Aznavour21:18

Music by Club.

Presenter21:32

Desert island on which we've dumped you. Could you look after yourself? Are you good with your hands? Are you good in a practical sense? I am quite good for all that, yes. You could build some kind of shelter?

Charles Aznavour21:38

Yeah

Presenter21:41

Yes, yes, I can. Yes, very easy. Can you cultivate? Yes, that I can do too. But I can't hunt and fish.

Presenter21:49

That's the problem. But I can become vegetarian. Would you try to escape?

Presenter21:54

Well, I guess

Presenter21:57

I I will stay there for a while, just to come back to myself.

Presenter22:02

and after that slowly built the boat.

Presenter22:06

And not escape?

Presenter22:08

But go away.

Presenter22:10

Back to music. Where do we go now? Do you know my Yiddish mamma? Yes, I do. Sophie Taka. Sophie Taka. But there's two versions. There's one in English song.

Presenter22:21

And there's one in Yiddish.

Presenter22:23

uh which is just uh recite. And uh I don't understand Yiddish, not being Jewish, but I think it's one of the greatest moments uh of of record of Safi Turkey.

Presenter22:36

And I love the record.

Speaker 222:38

Uh

Charles Aznavour22:39

I get the shaman.

Charles Aznavour22:42

The Mardorzis, the guns.

Charles Aznavour22:46

Are you the shamama?

Charles Aznavour22:48

I very we bitter when they fail.

Speaker 322:50

Yeah.

Charles Aznavour22:50

Uh

Charles Aznavour22:52

Uh

Speaker 322:52

I am not a man of the world.

Speaker 322:58

Wasted Vitroya explanatory.

Speaker 323:01

Bensigata

Speaker 223:02

Back together.

Speaker 223:04

In Vasuran fire.

Speaker 223:06

Boltsy girlfriend fatty a kin

Presenter23:09

Sophia Tucker.

Presenter23:11

And that brings us now already to your last record. What's that?

Presenter23:15

Well, unusual in this kind of uh

Presenter23:19

of selection. But I don't think too unusual, because it's uh from the Beatles, is Eleanor Rigby, and I think now we can talk about the Beatles as a classical writers and singers.

Speaker 223:50

Eleanor Ring

Speaker 223:52

Fix up the rice in the church where a wedding has been

Speaker 223:58

Lives in a dream, waits at the window, Wearing the face that she keeps in her jar by the door.

Speaker 224:07

Who is it for?

Presenter24:08

That was the Beatles. Now, if you could take just one disc of the H. You've played us, which would you select?

Presenter24:14

Mm-mm.

Presenter24:16

Even though it's very difficult, I think I will take the the top of the list, Kalinka. I will take off the tanor.

Charles Aznavour24:21

I will

Presenter24:23

No, scrap the tenor, just have the red army ensemble.

Charles Aznavour24:26

Yeah.

Presenter24:28

And you're allowed to take one luxury with you to the island, any one thing of no practical use? Well, I take I take uh I w I will take uh tape recorder, a small one. You know why?

Presenter24:39

Just to record one conversation and to give the answer the day after.

Presenter24:46

Yes, splendid. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are already on the island, and we don't allow big encyclopedias.

Presenter24:55

It's funny you say

Presenter24:57

Apart from the Bible and Shakespeare. Hm. But if it was in French you would say apart the Bible Moliere maybe. Or Racine maybe. And maybe Racine. I understand that. No, anyway, it would be a dictionary. Right. I in French or in English? In French would be much more convenient, yes. Or Chinese? No, I because

Presenter25:15

Depends who's gonna come first to take me out from the island. Right, we'll let you have one of each.

Presenter25:21

Okay. And thank you, Charles Athnaboo, for letting us hear your desert island disc. It's been a pleasure. Goodbye, everyone.

Charles Aznavour25:37

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.