Grace Bumbry

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

This week our castaway is the singer Grace Bumbrey.

Presenter0:36

Miss Mumbury, what have you been doing on your present visit to London? I know you've been singing Richard Strauss's Salome at Covent Garden. What else?

Grace Bumbry0:42

Yes, but when I first came here we did uh the Opera Don Carlos, where I sang the role of Princess Abelie. There were six performances of that.

Presenter0:52

You are a fairly frequent visitor to London nowadays.

Grace Bumbry0:54

Yes, I am, and I'm enjoying it very much.

Presenter0:57

Now, the first of your eight desert island disks, what's it to be?

Grace Bumbry1:02

Uh the first, I believe, would be Errol Garner.

Grace Bumbry1:06

Teach me to night, I'd like, from his concert by the sea.

Presenter1:08

Mhm. Why do you choose that?

Grace Bumbry1:10

is is something really quite special for me because w way back when I was a student at Boston University it was one of my very favorite songs. This is nineteen fifty five and uh it's something quite very special and very p private for t for me.

Presenter2:24

Errol Ghana, teach me tonight.

Presenter2:27

Did you find it hard to choose just eight records to last what may be a long, long time?

Grace Bumbry2:33

Yes, that's that's really quite a uh a chore because there's so many other things that w one could choose, means that there's so many beautiful things, so many things that are are impressive.

Grace Bumbry2:42

But uh you know you have to you have to stop somewhere.

Grace Bumbry2:47

And as as I love piano music and I love cello and I and I love also orchestral music, I I didn't really know what to do. Uh but I think my my main uh instrument uh would would be the piano and the voice. So those are the two um

Presenter3:00

And the volume.

Grace Bumbry3:03

Uh categories that I chose?

Presenter3:04

How well could you adapt yourself to loneliness for a long time?

Grace Bumbry3:08

Oh, I could get along for a long time, because uh I'm accustomed to being alone.

Grace Bumbry3:12

As a little girl I was uh I was always long,'cause I was I was the only d daughter in the family. My I have two brothers who are older, and they were always busy doing boys' things, you know.

Grace Bumbry3:21

And I had to had to maintain myself.

Speaker 43:25

Hmm.

Grace Bumbry3:25

So I can get along very well on the island as long as I have my my records and my book.

Presenter3:30

What's your second record?

Grace Bumbry3:32

The impromptu in G flat major, uh the Schubert impromptu.

Grace Bumbry3:37

Done by Dinu Lipati.

Grace Bumbry3:40

In nineteen sixty I was engaged in Basel at the Opera Hausday, and I happened to turn the radio on one afternoon.

Grace Bumbry3:48

and I heard this pianist playing.

Grace Bumbry3:51

And I thought, Mm, who is that? It is absolutely fantastic. I never heard such a beautiful, beautiful piano before.

Grace Bumbry3:57

And at the end of the programme they said that it was Dinolipati and it was in commemoration for his um his tenth year uh his tenth year of uh death. All right. So.

Grace Bumbry4:08

I went immediately out that next day and I found up all the Lipati records I could find, and uh of the records that I have of of Lipatis, this is my very favorite one.

Presenter5:19

Dino Lopati playing the opening of

Presenter5:21

The Schubert Impromptu in G flat major. What part of the United States do you come from?

Grace Bumbry5:27

I am born in Saint Louis, Missouri.

Presenter5:29

Uh

Grace Bumbry5:29

The Middle West

Presenter5:29

The Middle West. Mm-hmm. A musical family?

Grace Bumbry5:32

Well, professionally not, but uh yes quite musical. My my mother sang, my father sang, my father plays the piano and organ. My brother Charles plays the uh the trombone, Benjamin plays the drums, I play the drums and uh Benjamin sings yes, I think it's quite musical. There's a lot of noise around our house.

Presenter5:52

Yeah.

Grace Bumbry5:52

A lot of noise.

Presenter5:53

What did you start with? Yu the piano?

Grace Bumbry5:55

I started with the piano, yes.

Presenter5:57

Were you put to it or did you take?

Grace Bumbry5:59

I was put to it.

Presenter6:01

Yeah.

Grace Bumbry6:01

But didn't mi I mean, later on I didn't mind it, but but at the very beginning I I I really d

Presenter6:01

Reddit?

Grace Bumbry6:06

was was was very hard put to start take those studies, but, um after four years, I think, I began to like it. When you get past the scales and learning how to make the chords and the harmonies and all that, then then you started playing proper songs, you know, then it was fine.

Presenter6:15

Uh

Presenter6:22

and who sang in the church choir.

Grace Bumbry6:23

Yes, I did, and I played in the German Bugle Corps.

Presenter6:26

Well done.

Grace Bumbry6:26

I did.

Presenter6:27

And then you were in the Glee Club at high school?

Grace Bumbry6:30

No, no, no, no, no. I was not even uh admitted to the Glee Club.

Presenter6:34

What?

Grace Bumbry6:35

They turned me down, but I was a member of the a cappella choir a year later, which was a step higher.

Presenter6:40

Yeah.

Presenter6:42

Mm-hmm. Oh, that's good.

Presenter6:43

And you sang on the local radio station. How did that come about?

Grace Bumbry6:45

Yeah, yeah.

Grace Bumbry6:47

Well, I did um an audition for a for a competition among all the high school students in uh in Saint Louis. I mean, about five hundred students I think they were of all of all the the schools in Saint Louis.

Grace Bumbry6:58

And uh I was chosen as the winner and of course and then I was to do um two weeks of of uh radio work there.

Grace Bumbry7:06

And then I was sent off to New York to audition for The Godfrey Show, Arthur Godfrey Show.

Grace Bumbry7:11

And uh I was winner of the Alpha Godfrey Show and then

Grace Bumbry7:15

Well, this I did some television work there and radio work there in New York, and then things began to move on.

Presenter7:21

Yes.

Grace Bumbry7:22

And as a result of this orthography show, I.

Grace Bumbry7:27

uh received a scholarship to to Boston University.

Grace Bumbry7:31

And uh then I went from Boston University to North Western University and then that's where I met Madame Lehmann, Lotte Lehmann.

Presenter7:38

Yeah.

Presenter7:38

What did you sing on the other Godfrey show?

Grace Bumbry7:40

I did Odon Fatale from Don Carlos. Oh, that's my war horse. Whenever I auditioned for anything, I used Odon Vatale, and it always worked.

Presenter7:49

Fine.

Presenter7:50

Let's have your third record, what now?

Grace Bumbry7:52

Uh my third record would be Castadiva from Norma sung by Maria Callas.

Speaker 48:44

Priest is a grie, priest beyond.

Presenter8:57

Maria Callas as Bellini's Norma. Now you mentioned that fabulous name, Lotte Lehmann. She was teaching at at Northwestern University, wasn't she?

Grace Bumbry9:05

Yes, she was.

Grace Bumbry9:07

She gave um actually a two week master class there at Northwestern.

Grace Bumbry9:12

And uh, I was one of the students to well, to audition for her classes, and she accepted me as one of the students, and then

Grace Bumbry9:20

At the end of the two weeks, of course, she returned to to California.

Grace Bumbry9:23

Because she was uh she was teaching at the Music Academy of the West in Santa Barbara.

Grace Bumbry9:29

So finally I I wrote her a letter to see if I could matriculate there in the summer.

Grace Bumbry9:35

and uh I was accepted as a student and I was given a scholarship there for the three years, as a matter of fact. So I studied with Madame Lehmann from fifty six uh through fifty nine.

Grace Bumbry9:45

both uh with her as well as with the regular academic course as as as well.

Presenter9:50

Yes. And she brought you to London as her protege when she was giving some master classes here.

Grace Bumbry9:55

Yeah, yeah. That was in nineteen fifty nine in I think May or June.

Presenter9:59

Yeah. Now you were a mezzo at that time.

Grace Bumbry10:02

Yeah, I suppose I was.

Presenter10:04

Yeah.

Grace Bumbry10:04

She said I was. My voice teacher said I was soprano, but uh, you know, Madam Lehman I think was was far more

Presenter10:04

She said I was.

Grace Bumbry10:10

uh powerful uh and um I was in great awe of her. So what she said at that time, of course, was was the gospel truth, you know.

Presenter10:20

You caused quite a sensation when when you were heard at those master classes at the Wigmore Hall.

Presenter10:25

You follow them up by doing a recital of your own.

Grace Bumbry10:28

Yeah.

Presenter10:28

In the same hole.

Grace Bumbry10:29

Yeah.

Presenter10:30

What was the next step?

Grace Bumbry10:32

If I remember correctly, we went from London to Vienna.

Grace Bumbry10:37

And I studied

Grace Bumbry10:39

The Art of Oratorio with Eric Werber.

Grace Bumbry10:42

and then from there we went to Bayreuth,

Grace Bumbry10:46

just to to to see the whole music scene there, the whole music uh atmosphere together gather up some of that. Uh and by Reut and then to Salzburg. And then when I was in Salzburg I took part in one of those uh master classes of of Eric Werba.

Grace Bumbry11:02

and then took part in a contest uh they always have for the students there and I I won and I had to sing a concert with the uh with the orchestra.

Grace Bumbry11:10

And then I was engaged to sing at the Opera House in Basel as a result of that concert.

Presenter11:16

You signed up, I believe, for two years, so that you could really learn the repertoire.

Grace Bumbry11:21

That's right, I did, I did.

Presenter11:23

And then you were invited back to Bayreuth to sing.

Grace Bumbry11:27

Yes, I was invited back to Bayro to sing in nineteen sixty one.

Grace Bumbry11:31

and the role of Venus.

Grace Bumbry11:35

And you know, actually when I went there to Bayreuth in in in nineteen fifty nine, I I certainly didn't go there wi with the thought in mind of ever singing in Bayreuth. It just never dawned on me to sing in in Bayreuth.

Grace Bumbry11:46

And then a year later or so, what it was, a year or two later, I was asked to come in audition for Willand Wagner.

Grace Bumbry11:52

And I did at that time I didn't really have anything German to sing. And can you just imagine me going to Bayreux in this temple and singing in an Italian aria?

Presenter12:03

Uh

Speaker 412:03

Okay.

Presenter12:03

And that's what I

Grace Bumbry12:03

And that's what I did. I sang, oh, Don Fatale, again, you see my warhorse.

Presenter12:07

See my war horse. Yes. And they cast you as Venus and Terpoise.

Grace Bumbry12:10

Yeah.

Presenter12:11

Uh

Grace Bumbry12:11

Yeah.

Presenter12:11

Right, record number four.

Grace Bumbry12:13

Surely Bassie?

Grace Bumbry12:15

Singing uh feelings.

Grace Bumbry12:18

I love the words to this song.

Grace Bumbry12:20

And I like uh Shirley Bass's interpretation because I I find it very feminine, and I like also the beat.

Speaker 412:28

Yeah.

Speaker 412:33

Nothing more than feeling.

Speaker 412:40

Trying to forget

Speaker 412:45

My feelings of love

Presenter12:53

Jared A. Bassett.

Presenter12:54

Now you still had to make a a major debut in the United States.

Grace Bumbry13:00

The very first one, of course, I say, was uh in nineteen fifty eight at the Palace of of the Legion of Honor in San Francisco.

Grace Bumbry13:09

on the occasion of Madame Lehmann's seventieth birthday.

Speaker 413:12

Mm-hmm.

Grace Bumbry13:13

And uh the second one was at the White House for John F. Kennedy um and I think it was a dinner

Grace Bumbry13:26

in honor of the Chief Justice and it was on also the same day that we had a successful flight to the moon.

Presenter13:35

Uh-huh. Well, that was quite a day for you.

Grace Bumbry13:37

Yes it was.

Grace Bumbry13:38

But my professional operatic debut in the Metropolitan, when America was, in nineteen sixty five,

Speaker 413:44

Uh

Grace Bumbry13:45

And that was as able in Don Carlos.

Presenter13:48

When did you decide that you were really a soprano?

Grace Bumbry13:52

Whenever he decided it

Grace Bumbry13:54

I j I just decide to sing those things that fit my voice.

Grace Bumbry13:58

At one time uh voi my uh my voice was uh lower. I don't know whether I also spoke lower, whether I just j or just sang lower, I don't know. But there came a point when I felt that this th this particular opera I wanted to sing, I studied it, it fit my voice and I sang it. Then um I really think that people saw or heard something in my voice which I didn't hear. And this was already back in nineteen sixty three, because in nineteen sixty three in Basel they already asked me to sing uh Lady Macbeth.

Speaker 414:32

Oh.

Grace Bumbry14:33

And for for someone to have been engaged in opera house as a mezzo

Grace Bumbry14:38

I found that to be rather strange that they would ask me to sing Lady Macbeth, which I did.

Grace Bumbry14:43

And then during that same period, the Paris Opera wanted me to sing Salome.

Grace Bumbry14:48

So, I mean, there must be some reason. I mean, they they can't all be stupid.

Grace Bumbry14:52

And then uh I remember my store Berm

Speaker 414:53

And then

Grace Bumbry14:56

even said uh that that that I was not a mezzo.

Grace Bumbry15:00

Well, it's everybody has their opinion, but uh I never really gave it any serious thought of expanding my repertoire until around about nineteen sixty eight.

Presenter15:11

This needed some rethinking, didn't it?

Grace Bumbry15:12

Yes, it did. And and not just rethinking vocally, but also I find that as a mezzo you sing and and your your whole feeling, your whole being is one way. And as a soprano you're a completely different type. I find as a as a mezzo you kind of

Grace Bumbry15:31

I know kind of bossy and kind of I don't know half tough, you know. But as a soprano you're rather vulnerable and kind of sweet.

Presenter15:40

So you've you've dropped a lot of road.

Grace Bumbry15:43

Yes, I have. I've dropped almost all the mezzo roles except for uh Aboli and Amneris. And I think for very special reasons. First of all, because my my uh operatic debut was with uh Amneris and of course um Aboli I find to be very special and uh and it always has been very special for me.

Grace Bumbry16:05

Plus the fact that both of these roles I do not find to be really typical mezzo roles, because I find the tessotura is is is very high, even though you have some very low low moments. And if you know how to sing, you can get away with singing th these two roles even as a soprano.

Presenter16:21

Record number five. What's that to be?

Grace Bumbry16:23

Number five

Grace Bumbry16:26

I think I would like, um

Grace Bumbry16:30

Alexander Slobodianik?

Grace Bumbry16:32

In Chopin's Scherzo, schizo number three in C Sharp minor.

Presenter17:32

Alexander Slobodianik,

Presenter17:34

Chopin's Scerto No. three in C Sharp minor.

Presenter17:38

What about new opera roles? What are you learning at the moment? What have you got in mind?

Grace Bumbry17:41

Uh

Grace Bumbry17:42

I have yet to learn uh Afrikan for Covenant Garden for next season.

Presenter17:49

That's going to be exciting. Looking forward to that.

Grace Bumbry17:51

I am too. I'm looking forward to it very much and I for my own personal reason

Grace Bumbry17:55

It's gonna sound very strange. But, you know, in the opposite I sing, I always have to make up my my my face and my body make up uh very light. Now,

Grace Bumbry18:06

I freaken. I don't have to do that.

Speaker 418:08

And it's

Grace Bumbry18:08

And in Aida don't have to do that. So when I have this thing Ai Afrikaan and Aida, I am in my seventh heaven.

Presenter18:08

Uh

Presenter18:10

I have this thing up

Presenter18:14

Yes, nice light nights for easy nights, easy nights.

Grace Bumbry18:17

Yeah

Grace Bumbry18:21

The other roles, uh, let me see. I have I have here, my makeup roles. There's Turan Dodd, there is uh Abigail from Nabucco.

Presenter18:22

Let me see.

Grace Bumbry18:30

Um Elvira from Ernani?

Grace Bumbry18:34

Uh

Presenter18:35

So there's a lot of work for you.

Grace Bumbry18:36

Yeah

Presenter18:37

Are you a quick study?

Grace Bumbry18:38

Yes, I am.

Grace Bumbry18:39

I think through my knowledge of the piano.

Presenter18:42

As a singer, what sort of discipline do you impose on yourself? How much do you practise every day?

Grace Bumbry18:47

Well, I tr I I try to vocalize ev every day, certainly twenty minutes, except for the day after performance c because I don't want to uh tax the voice too much, because I feel that the voice has has has had enough work to do uh the night of of a performance. So that next day I don't work.

Grace Bumbry19:03

But uh then vocalizing comes every day that I don't have to sing.

Grace Bumbry19:07

And uh then on days when I really have to learn music, then sometimes I have to study

Grace Bumbry19:13

Four, five, six hours. Not vocally all the time. I'm like, I sit at the piano, or I might do memory work, or I might uh

Grace Bumbry19:20

Just learn things musically.

Presenter19:23

On a day when you're singing at night, I believe you maintain more or less absolute silence.

Grace Bumbry19:26

Yes, I do. As a matter of fact, uh um ideally I would say

Grace Bumbry19:32

thirty six hours before.

Grace Bumbry19:34

For an opera like Salome I like to have thirty six hours of absolute quiet.

Grace Bumbry19:39

And I don't talk on the telephone, I don't talk to anybody. Everything that is to be said is is written.

Grace Bumbry19:44

Where is your home now?

Grace Bumbry19:46

Well, my home is is still in in Switzerland, in Lugano. How much time can you spend there?

Grace Bumbry19:51

Not very much. Not very much. But it one has to change their suitcases somewhere.

Presenter19:56

Okay.

Presenter19:57

Record number six.

Grace Bumbry19:59

All right, number six I think would be Grande, Grande, Grande.

Grace Bumbry20:06

By Mina.

Presenter20:07

Who's Mina?

Grace Bumbry20:08

What Mina is uh is an Italian uh pop singer.

Grace Bumbry20:13

And uh I like the song very much because it's kind of uh uh sweet sour.

Grace Bumbry20:20

Tells a lot about uh the Italian male.

Speaker 420:26

Machetimono, que momento justo, tú s di ventre nantro.

Speaker 420:42

Say grandi, grandi, grandi, lemi pene no meleric card topio.

Presenter20:50

Mina singing Grande, grande, grande. Would you try to escape from this island?

Grace Bumbry20:56

If you have snakes and tarantulas, and then I would try to escape, yes, as best I could.

Presenter21:02

As best I could.

Grace Bumbry21:03

How

Presenter21:03

How practical are you? Could you look after yourself? Could you build a shelter? Cook something for yourself?

Speaker 421:09

Yeah.

Grace Bumbry21:11

I I don't I don't know. If I don't have any hammers and nails and all that

Presenter21:14

There are hammers and nails and all that.

Grace Bumbry21:16

But I imagine I managed somehow to get a little hut up.

Presenter21:19

Uh

Grace Bumbry21:19

But, um

Presenter21:19

But

Presenter21:21

Ever done any fishing?

Grace Bumbry21:22

Yeah, I I yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I g I would I would manage with the fish, I think.

Presenter21:23

Yeah, it's

Presenter21:26

You've done that.

Grace Bumbry21:27

Yeah,'cause I did some fishing once in in in the Bahamas with just a little a string, no bait at all, and I caught fish. There's a little hook, of course, you know, this little hook thing, but I didn't have anything on it.

Presenter21:35

Yeah.

Presenter21:38

Oh well done. You're aware of it.

Grace Bumbry21:38

Well done.

Presenter21:39

Yeah.

Grace Bumbry21:41

So I'd think I'd manage, but how would I get my fire started, though?

Presenter21:45

Well, how would you get your file started?

Grace Bumbry21:48

I don't know.

Grace Bumbry21:49

I I I don't know. I think I better take a grim picture on that'cause I think I might starve. I think I just might starve.

Grace Bumbry21:56

Before before I I um got rescued.'Cause I'm sure I would get rescued at some point.

Presenter22:01

Yeah, I think it's a good idea

Presenter22:05

Let's have some more music.

Grace Bumbry22:06

Alright.

Grace Bumbry22:08

I think I'd like to have Pericomo sing for me. It's impossible.

Presenter22:14

What?

Grace Bumbry22:15

Well, the words are absolutely depictive. I don't have to tell you anything else.

Speaker 422:21

Can I hold you?

Speaker 422:24

Closer to me

Speaker 422:27

And not feel you going through me

Speaker 422:34

Split the second

Speaker 422:37

That I never think of you.

Speaker 422:40

Oh, how impossible

Presenter22:48

Pericomo and some depictive words. I'll watch your last record.

Grace Bumbry22:53

Oh, my last record

Grace Bumbry22:55

This

Grace Bumbry22:57

Pleur, mazieux?

Grace Bumbry22:59

Sung by Grace Bumbury.

Grace Bumbry23:01

From the opera Le Cide.

Presenter23:04

This is one of your most recent recordings.

Grace Bumbry23:06

Yes, this is a recording we did um last year.

Grace Bumbry23:11

At the Carnegie Hall in live performance, and I think it's really quite a beautiful recording.

Speaker 423:26

Just some

Speaker 423:43

Is a poor demo.

Speaker 423:48

Smith or God suffering song. Time on

Presenter24:15

Pleuris Maisieur from Marsnet's Le Cide.

Presenter24:19

And now I'm going to ask you to choose just one record out of the eight you've chosen.

Grace Bumbry24:25

Uh I think it would be a dinolipati.

Grace Bumbry24:30

the um Schubert uh impromptu.

Presenter24:33

And one luxury to take to the island with you.

Grace Bumbry24:36

Oh, I'd have to have a bottle of perfume.

Presenter24:38

Right.

Grace Bumbry24:39

At least one bar.

Presenter24:40

At least one bottle will give you a case or however they pack perfume.

Grace Bumbry24:43

Alright.

Presenter24:44

And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, and we don't allow big encyclopedias either.

Grace Bumbry24:51

I would like the letters of Giuseppe Verdi.

Grace Bumbry24:56

There's an awful lot of information in that book.

Grace Bumbry24:59

that could keep my mind occupied for a long length of time.

Presenter25:03

Right.

Presenter25:05

The Letters of Giuseppe Verdi, chosen, translated and edited by Charles Osborne.

Presenter25:10

And thank you, Grace Bunbury, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Grace Bumbry25:14

It was my pleasure. Thank you so much.

Presenter25:16

Goodbye everyone.

Speaker 125:35

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.