Barry Sheene

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

On our desert island this week is the world champion of five hundred CEC motorcycle racing. He's an Englishman. It's Barry Sheen. Barry, how do you like the idea of being a Robinson Crusoe? Oh, it sounds very good to me, especially if it's nice and sunny and lots of sand and lots of palm trees.

Presenter0:48

Do you play records a lot? Yeah, I do when I have enough time. I travel a lot in Europe and uh in the car I've got lots of tapes and listen to the radio and

Presenter0:57

Now you have to choose eight that may have to last for years.

Presenter1:01

Yeah. What's the first one? Well the first one's by Dion Warwick and it's called Do You Know the Way to San Jose? I was at school when it first came out and it says in it, LA's a great big freeway, you'd put a hundred down and buy a car and I thought, God, Los Angeles, you know, what a fantastic place, you know, I'd love to go there.

Presenter1:19

And since then I've been there, I in actual fact one year I went eight times, and I remember sitting on the plane

Presenter1:24

Thinking God, and I wanted to I always dreamt about going to Los Angeles and I was bored to tears on the plane. Well, here's that old dream back again.

Barry Sheene1:34

You know the way to San Jose I'm going then to find some piece of mind in San Jose LA is a great big freeway Put a hundred down and buy a car

Barry Sheene1:49

In a week, maybe two, they'll make you a star

Barry Sheene1:53

We've turned into years how quick they pair And all the stars that never were Are parking cars and pumping gear

Presenter2:03

Jan Warwick, do you know the way to San Jose? You're a Londoner, aren't you, Perry? Yeah.

Presenter2:08

And your father used to race motorbikes? Yeah, he raced um before the war and shortly after. And uh then he gave up for a period and started again and in actual fact finished completely in nineteen fifty six. But you grew up with motorbikes about the house? Yes, you can say that. When did you first straddle a bike yourself?

Presenter2:28

Uh, it was just shortly after my fifth birthday. My dad made me a little motorcycle and um He made you work? Yeah. Well, he was an en engineer.

Presenter2:36

and he put together this little thing he got an engine off of someone, and he put it together and left me in the back yard with it, and I learnt to ride it. Really? And that this at the age of five? Yeah. It must have been a pretty big back yard. Yeah, it was. We used to live at the Royal College of Surgeons and um

Presenter2:53

The back yard was tarmac for people to park in and um it was ideal. It couldn't have been better to learn to ride. Greatly appreciated by the neighbours in the early morning, I'm sure. I used to ride it every morning before going to school and the people always used to hang out the windows shouting at you. Did you start going to races?

Speaker 13:02

Bye.

Speaker 23:02

Take care.

Speaker 13:02

Roll it in

Presenter3:08

Yeah, I used to go to um all the races from from the time of, say, three years of age. Did you? You went to school in London, did you? Yeah, in St Martins in the field. What did you want to be as a youngster?

Presenter3:22

Um, I wanted to be free, really, and get out of school.

Presenter3:25

What happened to you when you left school?

Presenter3:28

Oh, I had uh quite a few different jobs. First of all, I went um on the continent with uh another motorcycle racer to be his mechanic. And uh I done that for probably three months of the racing season. And then I came back and um had quite a few different jobs. At sixteen of course you began riding a motorcycle legally. Yeah, that's right. I um

Presenter3:52

I had a job for an advertising agency as a messenger.

Presenter3:56

and uh a general help in a studio and I used to bomb around London on a bike all day. Oh, that was good practice. Oh that was good practice. It was good fun in the summer.

Presenter4:04

What's your second record? Oh, the second one's by George Harrison and it's called Crackerbox Palace and it just reminds me of growing up.

Barry Sheene4:12

And by the time we bought the stone, somebody holding me. They said I welcome you to Cracker Pots Palace. We've been expecting you.

Barry Sheene4:28

You bring such joy, crack a box, palace all over you roam, no one love is true.

Presenter4:43

George Harrison, Crackerbox Palace. What was your first race?

Presenter4:47

My first race was in nineteen sixty eight at Brands Hatch in Kent. What sort of machine? It was a Baltaco, a Spanish motorcycle, um given to me by the the chap that ran the factory that was a friend of my father's. Mhm.

Presenter5:03

And in a couple of years you had won the 125cc British Championship. Yeah, that's right. That was quite fast going.

Presenter5:10

Now, as a young beginner, presumably you were paying all your own expenses.

Presenter5:14

Yeah, or trying to pay all my own expenses. I obviously didn't have much money and uh the cost of racing is quite a lot. So I used to work as much as I could and every penny that I earned went into motorcycles, plus virtually every penny my dad earned went into motorcycles.

Presenter5:30

And then the following year, 1971, you were runner-up in the 125cc World Championship, and you also won your first Grand Prix race. That's it, yeah.

Presenter5:39

So you were now in the big time, you were taken notice of, presumably, and uh sponsored.

Presenter5:46

Yeah, that I had um quite a lot of interest.

Presenter5:49

In me in 1971 because all of a sudden there was a young kid from London that no one had ever heard of and uh I won a couple of Grand Prix in 71 and people started to sit up and take notice, thank God. And in 1973 you were European 750cc champion. Yeah, it was the first year they ever run the 750cc championship, so it was kinda nice to win it.

Presenter6:12

And in 74, 6th in the 500cc World Championship. The World Championship works on on a point system, doesn't it? In all the Grand Prix races. Yeah, that's right. You get 15 points for a win and so on down the scale to 10th place where you get one point. How many Grand Prix races are there? On average, about ten. Each in a different country, I guess.

Presenter6:33

Now last year and this year world champion. And next year I hope. With comfortable margins and points. Yeah.

Presenter6:40

This year I think I won it by about twenty something points. Yes. And the previous year about the same. So you didn't even have to finish the whole number of of races? No, it was lucky really because the countries the final races were in I didn't really want to go to anyway.

Presenter6:55

Record number three.

Presenter6:57

Uh the third record's by the Eagles and it's called New Kid in Town. And the reason I like it is because the words at the beginning of it remind me of what it's like when you first go to a country to race, where they've heard your name and they think they know you and they'll never forget you until someone new comes along.

Speaker 17:17

Yeah.

Barry Sheene7:17

There's talk on the street, it sounds so familiar

Speaker 17:26

Great expectations.

Speaker 17:28

Everybody's watching you.

Barry Sheene7:35

Yeah.

Barry Sheene7:37

Uh

Speaker 17:37

They all seem an old

Presenter7:42

The Eagles.

Presenter7:43

Now, Barry, world champion twice, and that means competing in all these Grand Prix races. Are these road races or are they circuit tracks?

Presenter7:53

Well, it varies, um, probably sixty percent on closed circuits and the other forty percent on um open road circuits. What sort of distance?

Presenter8:02

Well the regulation is the endurance of the race must be a minimum of forty five minutes or uh a minimum of a hundred miles. What sort of speed?

Presenter8:11

This year in the Belgian Grand Prix we were on the straight. We were doing about one hundred and seventy, hundred and seventy five at an average speed of one hundred and thirty eight, I think. Well, controlling the machine at that speed must take a lot of strength.

Presenter8:25

It's strength and stamina, you know, there's a lot of riders that are pretty strong for a couple of laps of the race and then their old stamina really goes and um that's where I come in, hopefully.

Speaker 18:33

Uh

Barry Sheene8:33

Uh

Speaker 18:33

Yeah.

Presenter8:35

You're the holder of two records. What are they? As it stands at the moment, it's um the fastest lap record on a circuit in the world and also the fastest road race ever held in the world. Where was the lap record? In actual fact they're both at the Belgian Grand Prix. And what was just beaten? Um 137 point something or other.

Presenter8:56

Over now.

Presenter8:58

How much chance do you get to know the tracks first?

Presenter9:01

Oh you get quite a lot of chance. You have um two days practice before the race and uh nine cases out of ten I've I've um raced on the circuit before. And of course they differ very much. Oh yeah, that some circuits are very smooth and very boring and then you'll arrive at another circuit and it's very very bumpy, very dangerous and very long.

Speaker 19:20

Bring

Presenter9:21

A bumpy track in bad weather must be a hazard. In fact, bad weather must be one of the worst things you have to face in a race. Yeah, it is. At the beginning of the year, for example, in South America, it was beautiful weather if you were laying on the beach. The weather on the race day was 128 degrees in the shade. That's hot. It was unbelievable. And of course, you're in leathers. Yeah, you're in leathers, and the radiator on the motorcycle, because they're cooled by water, is right in front of you. So you've got 100 degrees centigrade coming off of that. And it was incredible. You know, the race was probably between 45 and 50 minutes long. And I started off the race weighing 10 stone 4 and after the race I weighed 9 stone 10.

Presenter10:06

You know, there's sweat and it's unbelievable. It was ninety-six percent humidity, I think. Yes, and uh w do you find that the visor uh clouds over if you've got perspex in in front of your eyes? Yeah, we have perspecs but w what I had to wear there was a special uh sweat band which you wear underneath your helmet because um the sweat just pours down your face and gets in your eyes and your eyes I don't know whether you've ever had sweat in your eyes, it burns so bad. And the other problem is that the sweat goes into your helmet, your helmet absorbs it and at the end of the race when you're getting tired, your neck muscles ache, plus the fact you've got a helmet which weighs probably twice as much as it did at the beginning because you've got so much water in it, you know, that that it's absorbed.

Speaker 110:17

Yeah.

Barry Sheene10:33

Uh

Presenter10:50

How long is the motor racing championship season?

Presenter10:54

Uh the first one usually starts in South America.

Presenter10:58

In March, and then the last one is in September in England.

Presenter11:03

And between the Grand Prix races of course you've got all sorts of less important races all over the place. Yeah, but there's English championships to go for and um a lot of international races that you have to do for either yourself or the for the sponsors. So it's a gypsy existence most of the year? Yeah, it's an out the suitcase existence. Yes. In fact you you travel a caravan don't you?

Speaker 111:19

Yeah.

Presenter11:23

Uh yeah, but that's only to use at the circuits to change in. Who goes with you? How how big a a team are you?

Presenter11:30

Well, I travel with my girlfriend, Stephanie. Mm-hmm. And, um

Presenter11:33

My father is my mechanic, and I have two other mechanics besides that.

Presenter11:39

So all in all the whole team probably nine or ten people. How many bikes? Three usually.

Presenter11:46

Now you've had your big successes on Japanese machines, which seems a pity. Are they so much better than the British jobs?

Presenter11:53

Well they are now, but uh when I started racing in'68 the British motorcycle industry was going well and they produced some fantastic racing motorcycles. But then it was the old story, instead of developing it as the Japanese would, they just sat down and said, Oh well we've got the greatest thing in the world and they just left it for a couple of years, didn't develop it and the Japanese came out with something that was so much better that instead of developing the English one again they just said okay we'll withdraw from racing.

Presenter12:23

They're not doing anything about it. The designers and manufacturers aren't going to have another go. There's a lot of good designers in England, and.

Speaker 112:26

Well yeah

Presenter12:31

It's just a the old old story of money and um mismanagement really enterprise.

Speaker 112:34

Mismanagement, really.

Presenter12:36

Yeah, that's it. You know, it's just lack of interest now. That's a great big shame. It is, really.

Presenter12:43

Record number four.

Presenter12:45

Record number four is by Jose Feliziano and it's called Don't Let the Sun Catch You Crying.

Presenter12:53

In nineteen seventy one a friend of mine was killed and the next day I was travelling from one circuit to another and I was feeling a bit tearful to say the least and it came on and it it just the words don't let the sun catch you crying stopped me from crying and ever since then every time it comes on it gives me a big lump in my throat.

Barry Sheene13:11

The night's the time.

Barry Sheene13:14

For your deed.

Barry Sheene13:20

Your heart may be broken tonight.

Barry Sheene13:25

But remember when the morning brights

Barry Sheene13:31

Don't let us sign.

Barry Sheene13:34

Catch you crying.

Presenter13:39

Jose Feliziano.

Presenter13:41

How do you allocate the percentage between the rider and the bike? The power has to be there in the first place, but after that, how much is the rider and how much is the bike?

Presenter13:52

It's very, very difficult to say. A lot depends on the type of circuit. For example, if you get a very, very fast circuit with lots and lots of straights, then um obviously a rider that's not not brilliant or not so good can win because he's got the out and out speed down the straight. But um nine cases out of ten I'd say it's about

Presenter14:10

Sixty-forty, sixty being the rider, forty being the bike.

Presenter14:14

Obviously, it's a very dangerous occupation. You come off on a number of occasions. Yeah, all due to mechanical failure, obviously to add.

Speaker 114:21

Go to a

Presenter14:22

But there was one one pretty bad one in in the United States.

Presenter14:26

Yeah, that's it. It was in Daytona in Florida.

Presenter14:29

And um I was doing about 180 mile an hour at the time and I had a rear tyre blowout.

Presenter14:35

Which resulted in rather a nasty accident and rather a lot of pain. I should think so. Now I know you had the bones in your legs pinned up and all sorts of other beastliness, but you were lifted back into the saddle within two months, I believe. Yeah, that's right. I had some very good doctors and physiotherapists, which helped a lot, obviously.

Presenter14:52

This was a a practice ride? Yeah, I w we had the circuit for a couple of days before the race and it was just um setting ev up everything right, you know, getting the tyres right and suspension and uh the tyres weren't right.

Presenter15:04

What about safety precautions in races? There was one Grand Prix track you refused to ride on.

Presenter15:10

Yeah, that's right. At Salzburg at the beginning of the year, the safety precautions were inadequate in that the medical facilities weren't up to scratch. And I thought, and so did most of the other top riders, that rather than risk anything, it was only a race and it was letting down a lot of people. But I think life's more important. I quite agree. In any case, you like things tidied up. There was one track where you didn't like the look of the riders lose, so you set fire to them.

Presenter15:39

It sounds like a right hooligan. Oh, that was a long time ago in 1971.

Speaker 115:42

Oh, that was.

Presenter15:45

And the loser in disgusting state, and we went to the organisers and said

Presenter15:53

You know, they should be replaced with a a new block with showers and hot and cold running water and they said, Yes, yes, we'll do it.

Speaker 115:58

Yes, yes.

Presenter15:59

And I went back to one of the old writers and I said, Oh, they're going to give us some new loosen showers. And so he said, Oh yeah, they've been telling us that for ten years.

Presenter16:08

So I said, Well, why don't we burn it down? Because it was only made of wood, anyhow.

Presenter16:12

So he said, um, whoa, yeah, I couldn't do that. So my mechanic and I burned it down. That's a very good way of making sure they gave you some new ones now.

Speaker 116:19

Yeah, we got

Presenter16:20

Now they're brilliant.

Presenter16:21

Ha ha ha ha ha.

Presenter16:23

It said obviously the

Presenter16:25

Rewards are high. It's said that within two years you'll have made a million.

Presenter16:30

May have made a million, but what I get to keep is another thing. You haven't been tempted to go and live abroad?

Presenter16:36

Well, I've been tempted, but I don't see why I should be pushed out of the country that I love and the country I was born and bred in, um, just because of the government not getting their thing together on the tax, because the tax as it stands doesn't give anybody a decent fair crack of the whip.

Presenter16:53

Record number five. Number five's called um Nights on Broadway and it's by Candy Staten.

Barry Sheene17:00

But that won't stop my lovin' you.

Barry Sheene17:05

I just can't stay

Barry Sheene17:13

Singing of a love song

Barry Sheene17:15

Singing it straight to the heart song, flaming it all up.

Barry Sheene17:21

Singing those sweet songs to that praise attend

Presenter17:29

Candy Staten.

Presenter17:31

Perry, what are your occupations when you're not riding motorbikes?

Presenter17:35

Well, I'm very, very busy. I have to work very hard for the sponsors and over the past year I've been involved with various different councils putting together road safety campaigns and

Presenter17:47

Yes, that's something very near to your heart, isn't it?

Speaker 117:48

They have

Presenter17:51

I think it's wrong that

Presenter17:53

Some young kids should be allowed out on the road that can't really ride a motorcycle properly.

Presenter17:57

And um I feel that a lot sh more should be done by the government, you know, to set up some very, very good

Presenter18:03

All paid for by the government training schemes. Mhm. Yeah, can something be done to make motorbikes a bit quieter in the roads?

Presenter18:11

I think they're they're getting quieter now. Um it's just you get the occasional person that knocks the baffles out of his silence and that thinks it and thinks just because it's noisy it's gonna go twenty miles an hour faster. But um

Speaker 118:17

Right.

Presenter18:23

They are a lot quieter than they used to be. And they're clamping down on the noisy kids.

Presenter18:28

Yeah, I hope so, you know,'cause it's nothing worse than a noisy motorbike and I'll be the first to agree.

Speaker 118:31

With the first

Presenter18:32

Now you've been seen driving Formula One racing cars, is four wheels the next step?

Presenter18:37

I don't know really. I've

Presenter18:39

James Hunt's a very good friend of mine and um I've been to see him race in a lot of different Grand Prix.

Presenter18:45

And over the past year I've got a big interest in Formula One. It in interests me technically a lot. A more comfortable ride, surely. Mm, I wouldn't say that. It's something that I

Speaker 118:53

I wouldn't

Barry Sheene18:54

Tell you that.

Presenter18:56

If I did go into it, it'd be a a really new challenge. But um, as it stands at the moment, I enjoy motorcycles far too much to get out of it. One thing we haven't talked about, Barry, is your career in opera. Oh, my God Tell us about that.

Presenter19:11

I was in uh

Presenter19:13

Tosca at Covent Garden with Maria Callas and Tito Gobby.

Presenter19:18

And it all came about one day I was fighting in the school playground with some kids, and a lady came past and asked me if I liked fighting.

Presenter19:27

So, um

Presenter19:28

Told her probably something like it was none of her business or something disgusting. And uh she asked me if I could sing.

Speaker 119:30

Yeah.

Presenter19:35

I said, Well I don't know whether I can sing, I haven't got the faintest idea.

Speaker 119:36

I don't know what

Presenter19:39

So I went along for an audition at Covent Garden, and I got a part in Tosca.

Presenter19:44

As a singing and fighting.

Presenter19:49

In Act One in the church, was it? Yeah, that's it.

Presenter19:52

In the state, the part with the sacristans in it. Yes. They didn't book you for any uh further productions. Well no, God, it was it wasn't a big part anyway.

Presenter20:01

Record number six.

Presenter21:06

Glenn Miller in the mood. Barry, are you useful about the house? In fact, could you build a house or or a shelter of some sort?

Presenter21:15

Uh yeah, I think I'm useful about the house. I don't do a lot, but if I wanted to I'm sure I could.

Speaker 121:15

Uh

Presenter21:20

And if it came to building a house, I'm pretty sure I could get something together. Would you try to escape?

Presenter21:26

It all depends, really. I I'd try and work out how far I was from the nearest land by the position of the sun or whatever.

Presenter21:33

And um if it was something like a thousand miles away I'd just say, No, fair enough, I'd stay here.

Presenter21:40

Back to music. What next? Uh the next record's by Elkie Brooks and it's called Sunshine After the Rain. Why do you choose this one? I should think after the sun we had everybody wants a send bit of sunshine.

Barry Sheene21:50

Since you went away

Barry Sheene21:55

My heart's not free

Barry Sheene21:57

It keeps on raining down on me Will there be a day when the sun will shine?

Barry Sheene22:09

I wanna see the sun shine up during the ray I wanna see blue birds flying over the mountain and gay

Presenter22:22

L. Key Brooks, what's your last record?

Presenter22:25

The last record's by Chicago and it's called If You Leave Me Now. And what does that mean to you?

Presenter22:30

Well, it's just something that it's really nice to listen to and I could listen to it all day long.

Barry Sheene22:35

And if you leave me now, you'll take away the very heart.

Barry Sheene22:45

Ooh, no, baby, please don't go.

Barry Sheene22:50

Ooh God, I just want you to stay.

Presenter22:59

If you leave me now by Chicago. If you could take just one disc out of the eight, which would it be? I think it'd be the one by Chicago.

Presenter23:06

You are allowed to take one luxury to the island with you. What have you chosen?

Presenter23:10

I'd definitely take an effigy of Dennis Healy and some pins to stick in it.

Presenter23:16

This this is a new idea altogether. Right, we'll get plenty of pins then.

Presenter23:21

And one book to take with you apart from that little conventional list of the Bible and Shakespeare and big encyclopedias.

Presenter23:29

It'd have to be well, if you could bind together for me a a book of languages with say six or seven languages in it. Yeah, it'd really interest me.

Speaker 123:37

Yeah.

Presenter23:39

Including Japanese, I believe. Yeah, Japanese, French, Italian, Spanish, German. Right, that shall be done. And thank you, Barry Sheen, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. And may 1978 be another World Championship year for you. Thank you very much.

Presenter23:55

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 224:05

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.