Michael Croft

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

On our Desert Island this week is the founder and director of the National Youth Theatre, Michael Croft. Michael, does music play a big part in your life?

Presenter0:40

It doesn't uh play a very big part these days, except insofar as uh now and again I I present a play with music, but uh

Presenter0:49

When I was um a youngster I had a very strong interest in music and growing up in Manchester I spent many Sundays at the Halley at Bellevue.

Presenter1:00

But I'm afraid that the my classical taste has diminished over the years and I find myself I can barely rise above the level of of good pop these days. What's your first record?

Presenter1:12

First choice. I'd like to start with um a a cold porter number sung by Hutch, Get Out of Town, which was uh one of my favourites as a uh young man. On this particular medley, it's followed by Night and Day.

Speaker 31:28

And when you're near close to me, dearie, tat

Speaker 31:33

March, the thrill when we meet is so bittersweet, the darling it's getting me dull.

Speaker 31:42

So on your mark, get set and get out of town

Speaker 31:49

My thunder under the height of me.

Presenter1:56

To Vintage Coal Porter Numbers by Hutch. You talked of being brought up in in Manchester. Were you born there?

Presenter2:03

No, I was born in in the country. In fact, I was born in Shropshire, in a tiny little hamlet that nobody's ever heard of. A little place called Hengoe. Don't tell me you've heard of it. I haven't. I'll I'll be honest. What was your first ambition?

Presenter2:16

Writing was a big ambition. Uh playing cricket was an even bigger ambition. And I think I spent most of my

Presenter2:23

summer time as a boy, anyway, playing cricket either at school or at Longsight Cricket Club, with um a burning desire to get to Old Trafford and uh be taken on by Lancashire. Well, the war interrupted uh not only my ambitions, but of course cricket as well. And I never really picked up cricket after the war.

Presenter2:43

Um so that uh that ambition meant writing remained as an ambition though.

Presenter2:49

Well, the second is is uh really a nostalgia. It's nostalgic, and the choice is nostalgic going back to those days in Manchester when I was a keen concert goer and um sat listening to The Halley with Barbaroli conducting usually. And uh two of my favourite pieces from those days are Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto, No. 1 in B, Flat Minor, the very famous one, and Grieg's Piano Concerto.

Presenter3:19

So we're going to have the Tchaikovsky first. Let's take that first. That's good.

Presenter4:10

The opening of the first Tchaikovsky piano concerto, Solomon a soloist, and the Helley Orchestra conducted by Sir Hamilton Harty.

Presenter4:19

You were an actor for a while, weren't you? Was that immediately after you came out of the service? Um well, I had a dodgy career as an actor in more ways than one. I did a little acting during the war and then I was in rep I was in rep up in Lancashire, places like Bolton, St Ann's.

Speaker 14:34

Yeah.

Presenter4:36

I went back to it after the war for a short time, but during that period I realized that I wasn't really very good at the acting and that I'd better try something else.

Presenter4:46

So I had the good fortune to be offered a place at Oxford University.

Presenter4:51

Primarily because I was an ex serviceman, and ex-servicemen were being made welcome and were also being given government grants at the time.

Presenter4:58

So I took a grant, and I spent the next two and a half years

Presenter5:02

enjoying life considerably at Oxford. What were you reading? English. But I didn't do a great deal of reading. What did you do? You you took your degree, who took your degree and then um

Speaker 15:11

So I took it

Presenter5:15

Having nothing else to do and no means of subsistence, I cast around and took the classical way out of scuttling into teaching. Well, I taught for about seven or eight years, mainly at Allen School, which I enjoyed very much indeed.

Michael Croft5:25

But I

Presenter5:30

Er Allen's School at Dulles. Allen's in Dulles, yes. Where you wrote a novel which raised a bit of dust.

Presenter5:36

Yes, it caused a considerable controversy. It was written about my early teaching days in tough secondary modern schools and it was really meant to be an attack upon the conditions in those schools.

Presenter5:48

I was very concerned that the book should um

Presenter5:52

aim to expose the brutality which uh still to my great surprise still went on in schools, the the amount of corporal punishment that was used in schools at a time when people said it didn't really exist or it was banned. And these conditions were were such a surprise to me that

Presenter6:11

I felt I really had to write about them as well as fulfil my own desire to try to write a novel anyway. While at Allen's you had produced some rather distinguished Shakespeare productions for the boys. I did a series of plays at Allen's. When I went to that school, the dramatic society was a pretty dreary affair. It was just existed for a few people who liked to act. And I didn't really reckon that at all. I thought drama should play a much more active part in the leisure time activities of the school. And I had the good fortune to run a football team and to be in charge of a cricket team. And I was also, as young teachers always are, I was in charge of the bad boys at the school, who I became very friendly with. And I managed to get them all interested in the play so that.

Presenter7:02

In a short time what had been a very small dramatic society became a very big one. And at the end of my time there, about half the school would be involved one way or another in plays, if if it was only uh doing publicity or selling uh tickets. Uh and they they went about their Shakespeare with immense zest. And having left the school these plays followed you with they wouldn't let you give up producing. That's how the youth theatre began. It was certainly not my idea and it was a a suggestion made to me by uh some of the Alains boys and they asked if I would produce plays with them in the holidays and so this was the start. Before we deal with that in any detail, you've already chosen your next record. You want the Grieg piano concerto?

Speaker 17:40

Before we

Presenter7:46

Greek, yes, because Greek we're talking about the upbeat things and I think that that piano concerto on that lonely island will certainly give us a sense of

Presenter7:55

The upbeat of life.

Presenter8:54

The opening of the last movement of the Greek piano concerto, Mura Limpani with the Philharmonia Orchestra. Wright, just twenty one years ago, because I know that the National Youth Theatre has just come of age, you started it all in the vacation.

Presenter9:09

beginning very modestly, of course.

Presenter9:11

It really began w simply with the boys from Alain's school, about a hundred of them, and uh four from Dulwich College, which was up the road. An all-male company. As an all-male company, really continuing uh the school play um in in the sense that uh the school plays had been all male and the boys had played the women's parts and so on. So we started off running it more or less as a boys' school.

Presenter9:35

Would run its own drama. And all Shakespeare. And all Shakespeare. And then within four years, the thing had grown far beyond what I had imagined. And by 1960, it had spread into being a national organisation. And of course, it had become a co-educational setup as well. Tours abroad. And then we began to tour abroad. And throughout the 60s, we were toured pretty well every year. We played at some of the major European festivals. So that the thing really took off far beyond my expectation. In the 21 years, how many productions have you done?

Presenter10:10

W with the National Youth Theatre, I should think it's about one hundred and ten, one hundred and twenty. From Shakespeare to specialize. Shakespeare well, we used to concentrate on Shakespeare, but now in the mid sixties we um again we had a we had a a a very m major piece of luck because uh

Speaker 110:19

Yeah.

Presenter10:29

I came across a writer called Peter Terson, who was writing very good plays at Stoke, and he was interested in writing for our organisation, and so he wrote a play, which in the end grew into a very famous entertainment called Ziggazaga, which was basically about football hooliganism. But in fact, the show itself was staged like a great vaudeville revue. This was one of our major successes, but the long-term importance of it really was that Terson, from then on, wrote a play every year for the National Youth Theatre on interesting and significant themes of contemporary life about young people and their lives. And thus refueled, as it were, the National Youth Theatre took on a totally different lease of life. We were able to open the doors far wider than before, and our members were able to play parts that they really didn't know about. Let's have another record. What? Number four.

Presenter11:29

Noel Coward was

Presenter11:31

One of my idols when I was a boy, I loved his plays, loved his work, although in a way they were totally contrary to my circumstances to the kind of world I live in. But I always had this very strong feeling about his uh particular about the lyrics rather than the music in fact. And so I've chosen something from a card and medley which he must have recorded in the thirties, but which I remember I bought that record for a shilling in 1942, and it was one that I every time I came on leave, it was one of the first records to go on.

Michael Croft12:04

Any little fish can swim.

Michael Croft12:06

Uh

Presenter12:06

And a little bird comes

Michael Croft12:07

Any little dog or any little cat can do a bit of this and just a bit of that. Any little wolf can name and any little cow can name.

Michael Croft12:17

But I can't wear anything at all.

Michael Croft12:21

For just love you

Presenter12:25

Neville card.

Presenter12:27

Now so far as the performers in the National Youth Theatre are concerned, this is a job for the summer holidays. Yes, it takes uh some five weeks, some eight weeks. We start about mm middle or late July, and we run through nowadays until late September. What age are the youngsters? Youngest will be fourteen. We have special courses for fourteen year olds, the oldest are twenty one.

Presenter12:49

How many applications do you get? These days we get three and four thousand. How many do you need? We finish up with a company. Right now, in London, there are about 400 young people involved in our work. What about the auditions? We go around the country, we have regional centres: Newcastle, Bristol, Birmingham, Manchester. We see everybody who applies. It takes about three months altogether. Of course, there's nothing for them to pay, but during rehearsals and productions, they have to keep themselves in line. It's an expensive business, especially for the provincial youngsters, because they've got to get lodgings, they've got to get hostel. London fares are ridiculously high.

Speaker 113:09

Yeah.

Speaker 113:15

It's an extra

Presenter13:24

And it'll cost them anything from twenty to thirty pounds a week. You have two companies playing in London at the moment. Yes, we've got um a Julius Caesar production at the Shaw Theatre, a modern dress production with an epic cast of about one hundred and thirty.

Speaker 313:30

Yes, we

Presenter13:39

And then we have uh a revival of a of a a superb play by Peter Therson called Good Lads at Heart at the Round House uh downstairs. And there's also a lunchtime show. We have a lunchtime show at the Soho Polly by Barry Keefe again called Killing Time. Let's have another record.

Presenter13:55

Well, I've chosen Sonata as my next record because uh I'm a sort of Sinatra freak. This is odd because I I used to detest Sinatra. As a as a young man, I was rather toffy nose, going off to the Halley and all that, and people like Sinatra Bing and so I I really had no time for them. But uh somewhere around the fifties uh Sonata suddenly hit me and since then I've got just about everything that Sinatra has ever recorded. Um and what I settled for in the end was

Presenter14:22

One for my baby.

Presenter14:28

Uh

Michael Croft14:28

We're drinking my friend

Presenter14:28

Yeah.

Michael Croft14:32

To the end.

Michael Croft14:35

of a brief episode

Michael Croft14:42

Make it one for my baby

Michael Croft14:48

And one more

Michael Croft14:50

For the room

Michael Croft14:53

Yeah.

Presenter14:54

Frank Sinatra, one for my baby. Now, apart from the National Youth Theatre, you also run a professional company for the rest of the year. I was able to move into the Shore Theatre about seven years ago. This theatre belongs to Camden Council, actually. Camden, a very arts-minded borough, and they put it at the disposal of the National Youth Theatre on very generous terms indeed. But it was essential that to run around the year that we should also present professional productions and of some quality. So, what we did, we created a company called the Dolphin Theatre Company, and the aim of it is to attract young audiences to choose plays that are likely to appeal to them, whether because they're studying them, or because the plays are significant to them, or whether because the plays are special interest to students. So, that we present maybe six or seven productions a year, chiefly revivals. You've done a tremendous amount of work, Michael. What about the writing?

Presenter15:52

The writing side of things, mostly takes the form of begging letters these days, or aggressive letters attacking the Arts Council, or pleading with people for this and for that. I'm aiming to do some writing, yes. I do want to write. I'm writing a sort of autobiography at present, and I'm trying to write an account of the National Youth Herb itself. But.

Michael Croft15:57

Or

Michael Croft16:00

Yeah.

Presenter16:17

Um it is difficult to fit it all in.

Presenter16:20

Record number six.

Presenter16:21

These days, as as I said to you, Roy, uh my classical taste is gone for ever, and um

Presenter16:27

I'm really much more switched on to popular music and uh and of all the

Presenter16:32

Present day performers, my favourite is Elton John.

Presenter16:35

In fact, Elton is not only a favourite in in the musical sense, but he's also been a benefactor of the National Youth Theatre. Elton's given several concerts in aid of the National Youth Theatre and has raised money from friends as well, so that you must say I've got a a strong personal interest in his music. But I think his music is marvellous, and and Bernie Torpey's lyrics seem to me it's a marvellous blend. It's a very rare combination of composer and writer.

Presenter17:07

And it seems to me

Michael Croft17:10

You lived your life like a candle in the wind

Michael Croft17:15

Never knowing who to claim to

Michael Croft17:19

When the rain set in

Michael Croft17:23

And I would've liked to know you, but I was just

Michael Croft17:29

Jandu burned out long before the legend ever did.

Presenter17:38

Elton John.

Presenter17:39

Could you look after yourself on this island? Are you a practical person? I'm very impractical in the sense of making things, so that uh I would uh be hard put to actually devise methods of making things, but I do adapt pretty well to circumstances, and so I'm pretty sure I would I would make out. I would certainly want to take with me my special uh is this the time to discuss my luxury? By all means, if you wish. Yeah, I mean if I'm allowed to take a luxury with me, it would be a very practical luxury. Um I'm a a whiskey drinker and uh I would certainly want to take a still with me so that I could I've been hoping that the the island did contain barley, I would be able to make my own uscape.

Speaker 118:03

Mm-hmm.

Presenter18:21

And I could sit there as the night comes in with my homemade whisky in hand and with my Tchaikovsky or my Elton John, and I could meditate upon times past. You would not then try to escape. I would probably sink into a state of soporific alcoholism, I should think, and give up hope. When the ship did come by, I probably wouldn't even notice it. You've proved in all your years with the National Youth Theatre that you can keep your head above water in difficult times. I'm sure you could do it again. Let's have record number seven.

Presenter18:56

Seven has got to be nostalgia again and it's gonna be Nielsen a little touch of smilchen in the night, all that schmootsy smilchy stuff that he does so well and it's gotta be oh memories of Humphrey Bogart and Casablanca and the war and to me convoys in the Mediterranean when I saw that film Casablanca and of course it has to be as time goes by.

Michael Croft19:20

You must remember this.

Michael Croft19:24

Kiss is still a kiss.

Michael Croft19:27

A sign is just a sign.

Michael Croft19:34

The fundamental things apply as time

Michael Croft19:42

Bye bye.

Presenter19:49

Nielsen singing as time goes by. And what's your last one?

Presenter19:54

whatever however uh the the product of the still, I think there's got to be the time when one is feeling excited and the spirit tingles. And the most tingling major piece of music I know is Ravel's Bolero.

Presenter21:05

Ravels Bolero

Presenter21:07

Arthur Fiedler conducting the Boston Pops Orchestra.

Presenter21:10

If you could take just one disc out of your eight, which would it be?

Presenter21:14

I think that it would have to be Elton John.

Presenter21:18

And you've told us about your luxury. A very sensible choice, too. One book. You're allowed to have one book. The Bible and Shakespeare are already there, and we've put the bar up on big encyclopedias. I would take Kipling. I would take Kipling's poems because I find them, I've always found them the most dramatically exciting. I find there's such a marvellous variety of. Well, you shall have the collected verse. And thank you, Michael Croft, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. My pleasure.

Presenter21:47

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 121:57

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.