Deborah Kerr

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

Our castaway this week is Deborah Kerr. Deborah, how well could you stand loneliness? Could you adjust yourself to it?

Deborah Kerr0:40

Oh Roy. Um

Deborah Kerr0:43

Well, I I think I could possibly

Deborah Kerr0:45

stand it pretty well. I've always uh rather enjoyed being alone.

Presenter0:50

How important is music to you?

Deborah Kerr0:52

Enormously important.

Presenter0:53

Do you play an instrument?

Deborah Kerr0:55

I play the piano. I used to play it rather well. I play it extremely badly now, I regret to say, but I enjoy fiddling around.

Deborah Kerr1:03

on our our piano that both my daughters learned to play very much better than I did, and neither of them have kept it up. But I I I I love music and have it going a great deal.

Presenter1:14

What's your first record going to be?

Deborah Kerr1:16

Uh my first record's going to be Vorjak's New World Symphony and um out of sentiment because I played it the other time I was on Desert Island Discs.

Presenter1:26

Yes, I remember you did.

Presenter2:12

Borschak's New World Symphony, part of the first movement, the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Erst van Kertisch.

Presenter2:20

You're a Scot, of course, Deborah.

Deborah Kerr2:21

Yes, I am.

Presenter2:23

You spent your childhood in Scotland.

Deborah Kerr2:24

Well, uh only until I was five. So, uh, you know, that's not not very long, and then moved south to Surrey.

Presenter2:31

Yeah.

Deborah Kerr2:32

And I'm a gypsy. I've lived all over the world, gone to school in Bristol. Lived here, there and everywhere.

Presenter2:39

You nearly found yourself in the civil service, I believe.

Deborah Kerr2:42

Oh, my goodness Where did you rake that one up from? Yes, I remember it was on one of my reports from my boarding school in Bristol, I think. When the the the headmistress um suggested to my parents that uh with my particular talents I would be extremely uh advantageous to the civil service.

Presenter3:01

Do you think that's

Presenter3:05

You had an aunt who ran a drama school.

Deborah Kerr3:07

Yes, I still have an aunt. She is a absolutely splendid eighty the other day, and although she does not run the drama school any more.

Presenter3:12

Uh

Speaker 13:12

Yeah.

Deborah Kerr3:16

She did, and uh I've studied with her, and uh all I've learned I've I've learned from her.

Presenter3:22

Your original ambition was to be a dancer.

Deborah Kerr3:24

Yes, I was absolutely passionate to be another Margot Fontaine, you know, but uh I v very quickly caught on to the fact because I became a student at the Saddlers Wells Ballet and

Presenter3:35

You won a scholarship, I believe.

Deborah Kerr3:37

That's right, and soon found out that I was never, never, never going to make that scene at all.

Presenter3:42

You were in the Corps de Ballet for a while.

Deborah Kerr3:43

Yes, yes, I was. Back row the swans.

Presenter3:48

And then what?

Deborah Kerr3:49

Well, I th I think reasonably, intelligently realizing I was never going to achieve the heights, nor the discipline, nor had I started training early enough to be a you know, a prima ballerina.

Deborah Kerr4:01

I returned home, um, and then um decided to, you know, I w w wanted to be an actress. I was always better at the acting bits of ballet anyway.

Speaker 44:11

Um

Deborah Kerr4:12

You know, I always had to play the prince, I was never Aurora, you know.

Speaker 44:15

And

Deborah Kerr4:16

And so I started I mean, I had been studying uh drama with my aunt at the boarding school I was at. So I then went back and studied full time uh at her school.

Presenter4:29

Yes. What was your first engagement?

Deborah Kerr4:31

Well, my first engagement as such.

Deborah Kerr4:34

um in public was over the the radio during the war uh from the west of England.

Deborah Kerr4:39

I did various plays and read stories for Children's Hour and that sort of thing. And then uh the the year that well,

Deborah Kerr4:48

It all came together, really, now I come to think of it, because my first job on a stage, other than being the back row of the Swans, was the Open Air Theatre Regents Park.

Presenter4:58

I would dare rub it at the end.

Deborah Kerr4:59

Dear old Robert Hatkins, yes.

Presenter5:01

What did you play?

Deborah Kerr5:03

Ah, I again are you know page to Pericles, Prince of Tyre.

Presenter5:06

Oh man.

Deborah Kerr5:07

And yes, lady in waiting, uh much ado about nothing, all of that. But I was understudied to to Tanya and understudied to this and that and the other.

Presenter5:15

and if wet in the tent,

Deborah Kerr5:17

And if wet, into the tent, yes, which happened regularly.

Presenter5:19

Which happened.

Presenter5:20

You started, so let's have your second record at this point.

Deborah Kerr5:25

My second record is um one I've um been introduced to by my own young. They keep me up to date, you see. I I believe very much in keeping up to date with one's young, and my young are no longer young.

Deborah Kerr5:39

I'm the proud owner of a nine month old grandson.

Deborah Kerr5:42

And uh it it is the Francesca, my daughter Francesca, who introduced me to Graham Parsons, and I fell in love with the number called She.

Speaker 46:00

She

Speaker 46:06

She came from the land of the cottonwoods.

Speaker 46:10

A land that was nearly forgotten by everyone.

Speaker 46:18

She

Presenter6:22

Graham Parsons singing She

Presenter6:25

What was your first film appearance?

Deborah Kerr6:28

My very first film appearance ended up on the cutting room floor.

Deborah Kerr6:33

Uh I I think uh it was in uh a film called Contraband.

Deborah Kerr6:38

With Conrad Weight.

Deborah Kerr6:40

How I fainted over him and uh Valerie Hobson and Michael Powell was directing it.

Presenter6:45

And then something happened which only happens in romantic novels. You were discovered in a restaurant.

Deborah Kerr6:51

Ye yes. Well, it was sort of uh simultaneous with that d doing that, really, that uh I was um taken to lunch.

Deborah Kerr7:02

at at a restaurant, and sitting at a nearby table was the one and only Gabriel Pascal, who made Pygmalion and made Caesar and Cleopatra, and was about to make a film of George Bernard Shaw's Major Barber.

Deborah Kerr7:18

and um he spotted me and came over and um

Deborah Kerr7:22

said something bizarre like Sweet Virgin, are you an actress? So I didn't know whether to be flattered at either or both or neither.

Deborah Kerr7:31

Well, to cut a long story short, I've I got the part of Jenny Hill and Major Barbara.

Presenter7:37

And then after that you got parts in some very good

Presenter7:40

Wartime British pictures, Love on the Dole, and Hatters Castle.

Deborah Kerr7:44

Mm-hmm.

Presenter7:44

and Colonel Blimp, which I remember you popped up in a number of different roles.

Deborah Kerr7:46

The loop

Deborah Kerr7:48

Yes, oh, that was my favourite act. It was such a marvellous idea to play three different women, and th the the reason they were played by the same person was that to Colonel Blimp's eye

Deborah Kerr8:04

The girl was exactly like the first girl he fell in love with, and of course nobody else could see it at all. I thought it was an enchanting idea.

Presenter8:07

And not with

Presenter8:10

Uh

Presenter8:12

That was another of Michael Powell's

Deborah Kerr8:13

Yes, it was. An Emmerich Press burger wrote.

Presenter8:15

Yes. And then Black Nouse Scissors. You took some time off to do some stage work there.

Deborah Kerr8:16

That

Deborah Kerr8:20

Uh, yes. Um, when was it? Nineteen forty-two, I think.

Presenter8:25

That I did Heartbreak House.

Deborah Kerr8:25

That idea was Heartbreak House, yes.

Deborah Kerr8:29

That's right.

Presenter8:30

And then off would answer

Deborah Kerr8:32

That's right, with gaslight.

Presenter8:35

It's time we had another record. What are you going to choose next?

Deborah Kerr8:39

Well

Deborah Kerr8:40

I love a Brazilian group called headed by Sergio Mendez, and um well, I shall probably get lots of letters if they're not Brazilian, but I'm sure they are but uh there's a particular number that I like of theirs called Fool on the Hill.

Speaker 49:06

The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still.

Speaker 49:11

But nobody wants to know him, they can see that he's just a fool And he never gives an answer but the fool

Presenter9:23

Sergio Mendez, whom we hope is Brazilian, and Fool on the Hill.

Deborah Kerr9:27

Uh

Presenter9:27

Now all this time you had been under contract to Gabriel Pascal, but you'd only made the one picture for him.

Deborah Kerr9:33

Yes, that's right. I only ever did make the one picture.

Deborah Kerr9:36

Oh, there was a lot of talk at one time that I might do I think Vivian Lee fell ill or something, and um Pascal said Do you not think, sweet Virgin, he was still calling me a virgin that you could lose ten pounds?

Deborah Kerr9:53

And play.

Deborah Kerr9:55

play Cleopatra. But that that came to naught because Vivian, rest her sweet soul, she did play it very beautifully.

Presenter10:04

And Hollywood was beckoning anyway.

Deborah Kerr10:06

Yes, it was by that time.

Deborah Kerr10:08

And

Presenter10:09

And they were MGM bought out Pascal's company.

Deborah Kerr10:12

That's right. They bought out his contract. So I I I really had not much choice of w where where I went in in Hollywood, because uh I think Gabby had made a pretty good profit out of me anyway.

Presenter10:14

So uh

Presenter10:23

What was the first Hollywood picture you did?

Deborah Kerr10:26

It was called The Hucksters with Clark Gable. So that was fairly intimidating to go to Hollywood, A, and B, to do your first movie with the the the King and the King he was.

Presenter10:37

And

Deborah Kerr10:39

And uh

Presenter10:40

How did you find him to work with?

Deborah Kerr10:41

adorable. He was an enchanting man who had absolutely no pretensions about himself, either as a person or an actor at all, and um would make fun of himself and say, I was just born with this face and these ears that stick out and this voice and no women seem to be crazy about me and here I am, you know.

Presenter11:01

MGM worked you very hard, didn't they?

Deborah Kerr11:04

They did work me very hard indeed, but uh I I was there you know at a wonderful time.

Presenter11:10

Yes. There was one film you made which was fairly rough, tough and terrific for its day. That was From Here to Eternity.

Deborah Kerr11:16

Yes, yes indeed. Well, that was what's known as the breakpoint. Uh I was tremendously lucky to get that part.

Deborah Kerr11:24

because it did it it what's known, it didn't break, it shattered the mould. And um coming at the same time as as the movie came out,

Deborah Kerr11:34

Uh I went to Broadway and appeared in Robert Anderson's play, Tea and Sympathy, which was also, for its time, a shocker. I mean, it it it is a very tender and lovely play, but it had a very startling end that only how what is it, twenty years ago, if that had uh people gasping, they simply couldn't believe that a

Deborah Kerr11:56

you know, thirty five year old woman would offer herself to a eighteen year old boy. I mean, the roof fell in. And uh today, I mean, it's the norm, isn't it?

Presenter12:06

They're doing it all over the place.

Presenter12:08

Record number four.

Deborah Kerr12:10

Record number four. Well, it fits in rather well. Um as you will notice, I'm very partial to Spanish and Latin songs, and uh this is called Historia de Una Mor, The Story of a Love, by Lucio Gattica, and I find it very moving and very touching.

Speaker 412:35

Masari Labo Corazon.

Speaker 412:42

Et el ma son, gour son deval.

Speaker 412:49

Porqueños me so query.

Speaker 412:53

Paracer me sucurimo.

Presenter12:56

Story of a Love by Lucho Gattika

Presenter13:00

Well, you made a a lot of films in Hollywood, some very good ones too. One big musical, The King and I. Did you do all your own singing?

Deborah Kerr13:07

Um no, I did not. While I was on tour with T and Sympathy I was taking singing lessons like mad. I had taken them before.

Presenter13:15

Uh

Deborah Kerr13:15

when I was a drama student, but I ah I worked and worked and worked and worked, and I got my voice up and steadier in pitch. It was good for my theatre work as well, but not enough to be able to sing some of those very difficult songs some of them are very difficult songs, the King and I. They're very sustained.

Speaker 113:31

Yeah.

Deborah Kerr13:34

Oh, it's one thing on the stage to to get away with not a very good voice, because Gertrude Lawrence didn't have a very good voice.

Speaker 113:40

Uh

Deborah Kerr13:41

But it's quite another thing in in the cinema you it's got to be true. And um this very, very talented girl, th this singer, uh Marnie Nixon, she she not only ha had this extraordinary ear that she could really mimic one's voice and one's pronunciation, but funnily enough we we looked extraordinarily alike.

Deborah Kerr14:03

And uh I I I think I've heard her having dubbed for other people, but I really do think that uh not because it was my film and I was in it, uh but the King and I it's it's really very hard to tell when it isn't me.

Presenter14:16

Yes, you did some of the songs.

Deborah Kerr14:18

Yes, I did whistle a happy tune. Yes. And the intro to Getting to Know You.

Presenter14:22

Which other films do you remember with affection?

Deborah Kerr14:27

Oh, I've I've been so lucky. I I've done

Deborah Kerr14:31

So many that I've I've I've adored doing and and have so many happy memories of.

Deborah Kerr14:36

I suppose um The Sundowners, the story about the Australia and the sh the sheep farms with Bob Mitcham.

Deborah Kerr14:44

Um that's one of my real favourites. I remember that with great, great affection. Uh affair to remember, of course. I I'm ashamed to say I will even sit now and find myself crying over it, which I think is pretty disgusting. Night of the iguana, uh I I love the innocents, I absolutely adored doing

Presenter15:05

Absolutely.

Presenter15:07

Wonderful story.

Deborah Kerr15:08

Yeah, it was a wonderful story, and I think Jack Clayton's interpretation of it was quite brilliant, and it was desperately overlooked, I think. Record number five.

Deborah Kerr15:18

Record number five is the Sanctus from Foray's Requiem, which I I again particularly love, as boys' voices have always moved me to tears. There's a purity that's not found in a in a woman's voice, I don't think.

Speaker 415:52

Whose time is all he

Presenter16:39

The opening of the Sanctus from Foray's Requiem, the choir of King's College, Cambridge.

Presenter16:44

Conducted by David Wilcox. Your home now is in Switzerland.

Deborah Kerr16:48

Yes, that's right, it has been for twenty years.

Presenter16:50

Two

Presenter16:52

And you've been doing a lot of stage work in in recent years. You were in London with the day after the fair a few hours ago.

Deborah Kerr16:57

That's right.

Presenter16:59

And now in London you're playing Shaw's Candida with enormous success. Are you enjoying it?

Deborah Kerr17:04

Oh, yes, we're happy.

Presenter17:05

You look as if you are.

Deborah Kerr17:10

One never suspects when you read on the flat page you read Canada how much the old man, George Bernard Shaw, put into that little play, because it is quite a short play.

Speaker 417:21

Playing.

Deborah Kerr17:22

and it wasn't until I started working on it, and all of us started working on it, that we realized how much depth it contained and on how many levels it was written.

Presenter17:32

Well that's going to keep you busy for quite a few months to come.

Deborah Kerr17:35

Yes, I'm not sure.

Presenter17:35

Yes, I can.

Deborah Kerr17:38

Record number six, yes, a little flamenco, because uh that it makes me feel I want to dance and sing, and it's called Festival in Sevilla, in Seville.

Deborah Kerr17:51

It's Pacopena.

Speaker 418:00

Hi the bottom!

Presenter18:17

PACOPENA FESTIVAL IN SEVIL.

Presenter18:20

From all your travels, all those glamorous locations, there must have been a few which gave you some ideas for making yourself comfortable on a desert island. Could you manage could you look after yourself?

Deborah Kerr18:32

Well, I suppose one would have to, wouldn't that?

Presenter18:34

Batter

Deborah Kerr18:34

You know it'd be um inventing things, wouldn't it? You know, sort of uh making a tooth brush out of a cocoanut or something. That's the trick of the week.

Presenter18:45

That's the trick of the week. It strikes me you're going to be a pretty good cast to it. Would you like to go to the bottom?

Deborah Kerr18:49

Destroyed.

Deborah Kerr18:52

Yes, I think I am now'cause I can fish, and I know how to grill it, and I can rub two sticks together and make a fire, can't I?

Presenter18:59

You can do it. You've done it.

Deborah Kerr19:00

Yes, I've done it.

Presenter19:01

Would you try to escape?

Deborah Kerr19:03

No, I don't think I'd be that good a swimmer. And and unless a friendly dolphin came by that I could get astride and go off on.

Presenter19:12

I think that's unlikely. You better stay where you are. Record number seven.

Deborah Kerr19:16

After that rather turbulent thought of getting on a dolphin, I would love to play Gentle on My Mind by Glen Campbell.

Speaker 419:26

That makes me tend to leave my sleeping bag rolled up and stashed behind your couch.

Speaker 419:35

And it's knowing I'm not shackled by forgotten words and bonds, And the ink stains that are dried upon some line.

Speaker 419:46

That keeps you in the back roads by the rivers of my memory. It keeps you ever gentle on my mind.

Presenter19:56

Len Campbell.

Presenter19:57

And now we come to your last disc. What's that?

Deborah Kerr20:01

Well, it is one to to sort of

Deborah Kerr20:03

Uplift me,'cause it when every time I hear it I feel I'm soaring towards the skies, and it is the Bach to Carta.

Presenter21:11

The Dakarta from the Bach Dakarta and Fugue in D minor. Nicholas Danby at the organ of Blenheim Palace. If you could take just one disc of your eight, which would it be?

Deborah Kerr21:22

I think it would be the New World Symphony. It's a it's a sort of all-rounder.

Presenter21:27

Mhm. And one luxury to take to the island with you.

Deborah Kerr21:30

Um you won't let me have my luxury, I don't think.

Deborah Kerr21:35

Yeah. Well, you see, I was going to ask you for a crochet hook and a flock of sheep.

Presenter21:44

Creci hook, yes, flock of sheep, never.

Deborah Kerr21:47

But can I have the wool off the flock of sheep? Because you see that will keep me busy and I can I can make all kinds of bikinis and

Presenter21:50

Yes, you see that?

Deborah Kerr21:56

Heaven knows what else.

Presenter21:56

The f

Presenter21:57

Yes, and one book putting aside the Bible and Shakespeare and we don't allow big encyclopedias either.

Deborah Kerr22:03

I thought I would like to take the uh complete Oxford Dictionary,'cause I'm fascinated with words. And um I'm never bored reading and and finding a new word and where it came from and what its derivation is and and why we use it, etcetera.

Presenter22:19

The complete Oxford Dictionary in all those volumes. And thank you, Deborah Kerr, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Deborah Kerr22:27

Thank you, Roy. It was wonderful. I had a great time.

Presenter22:30

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 122:39

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.