Clare Francis

Speaker 20:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

Our castaway this week holds the sailing record for the fastest single-handed Atlantic crossing by a woman, it's Claire Frances.

Presenter0:40

Claire, you know what loneliness is. With what degree of dread would you face a fairly long isolation on a desert island?

Clare Francis0:48

Well, I know loneliness when I know I'm going to see people within a fixed time, which is a very different thing from an indefinite loneliness. So

Clare Francis0:58

Oh my goodness, I think I'd have to keep myself very busy and not think too much. I think the secret is not to think too much, actually.

Presenter1:04

On your long voyages, do you take music?

Clare Francis1:07

Oh yes. I take cassettes and a cassette player, and I play quite a lot of music, particularly in the evening.

Presenter1:13

What sort of thing stands out best in that sort of circumstance?

Clare Francis1:17

Well, you want something that really means a great deal to you, I think. Something very special.

Presenter1:22

Right. What's the first very special record you have there?

Clare Francis1:26

Well, it sounds extraordinary, but it's actually la mer, de Bussy's la mer, but only because it's a beautiful bit of music, not because it's particularly about the sea.

Presenter2:27

Debussy's La Mer Boul is conducting the New Philharmonia Orchestra.

Presenter2:32

Clare, you were brought up in Surrey by the River Thames. Is that where you started to sail?

Clare Francis2:37

No, in fact it was on the Isle of Wight, where we went every summer for our holidays. I actually started off in a rowing boat, and then

Presenter2:41

Mm-hmm.

Clare Francis2:44

My father took me sailing in a dinghy, and I I hated it to begin with, because

Clare Francis2:50

The boat tipped over and spray flew over, and and and really it was rather unpleasant, but by the time I was six I'd forgotten it was unpleasant, and I I began to rather enjoy it.

Presenter2:57

Sounds good.

Presenter3:00

You were also enjoying dancing.

Clare Francis3:04

Yes, I went to the Royal Ballet School when I was twelve.

Clare Francis3:08

And I stayed there until I was seventeen, when I I gave up, um, mainly because I wasn't going to be very good at it.

Clare Francis3:16

and I thought I'd I'd go and do something else. I I still love ballet very much. I I love going to it and I love listening to the music.

Presenter3:23

What did you do instead?

Clare Francis3:25

Well, I went to London University and read economics. Yeah.

Presenter3:28

Economics. Yeah. Ballet economics. That was a jump.

Clare Francis3:32

Yes, a tremendous uh change, but really that was um what I thought I could do best and um

Clare Francis3:39

I love the arts, but I'm not very good at writing about them or or

Presenter3:42

So you you took your degree and then what did you do? What what was your first job?

Clare Francis3:42

So

Clare Francis3:47

I went into market research for a large company and then into marketing, which is a slightly different thing.

Presenter3:54

How long did those jobs last?

Clare Francis3:56

Well, I stayed uh I think in those jobs for three years.

Presenter4:01

Bohart really wasn't in market research.

Clare Francis4:04

Well, no, I couldn't see the point of working for a large company uh in a big machine. I really wanted to get away and do my own thing. Rightly.

Presenter4:12

Let's have record number two and then we'll talk about your own thing.

Clare Francis4:16

Well, the next record it it has to be ballet music, and one of my favorites, which is Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet.

Presenter5:20

The Dance of the Nights from Prokofieff's Romeo and Juliet, Lorine Marzell conducting the Cleveland Orchestra.

Presenter5:28

Now this was what, four years ago, that you were fed up with market research?

Clare Francis5:32

Yes, that's right. I I decided I'd like to go and travel a bit, but

Presenter5:36

But

Clare Francis5:37

Jet travels never appealed to me very much. You get there too quickly, you don't feel you've got away.

Clare Francis5:42

So I thought it would be fun to go and sail away with some friends, but one way or another I got challenged into sailing the Atlantic single handed for the first time.

Clare Francis5:52

It seemed like a good idea when I did it, but in fact I didn't enjoy the trip tremendously because I was a bit frightened.

Presenter6:00

Had you done any long trips on your own?

Clare Francis6:02

Not really. I had sailed out into the Atlantic for two days to see what it was like and and I sailed back into Falmouth.

Clare Francis6:11

And I didn't enjoy that. I thought it couldn't be any worse than that.

Presenter6:14

Which road did you take?

Clare Francis6:16

I went down by the Azores, which is quite warm, get a lot of sunshine.

Presenter6:20

It's a long way run.

Clare Francis6:21

It's longer, yes, it it it it's quite a bit longer than the direct route. It it it's a bit more pleasant. There are more pleasant routes.

Presenter6:28

Was this in your own boat?

Clare Francis6:29

Yes, that was my own boat, a small thirty two footer cruising boat. Quite slow, very comfortable.

Presenter6:36

Did your feet create much of a stir in having done the the voyage?

Clare Francis6:40

Not really, because it wasn't a first, it wasn't anything special, and it wasn't intended to be, and I really didn't want any stir at all. It was just a private adventure.

Presenter6:51

Record number three.

Clare Francis6:52

Well, that's to bring back memories of the West Indies and it's a steel band, in fact the Trinidad steel band.

Clare Francis7:00

Really marvellous music. It should be heard live actually. But we'll have to make do with the record.

Presenter8:01

The Peanut Venda by the original Trinidad Steel Band.

Presenter8:05

Now you had obviously got hooked on long distance sailing. You decided to have a crack at the two thousand miles round Britain race. This is quite a rugged one, too, isn't it?

Clare Francis8:15

Well, yes, it is. Uh there are only two of you allowed on board. I did it with another girl, Eve Bonham, and um you have to navigate a great deal because you're going round land all all the time.

Clare Francis8:27

And you also have to race very hard in order to do well at all. And so, um oh, you also have the bad British weather, of course, uh, particularly up around the north. Uh how far?

Presenter8:37

How far do you stay off off the coastline?

Clare Francis8:40

But it varies. Going round the west coast of Ireland, you're you're very close, for example but going up towards the Shetlands, you're right off off uh the land.

Clare Francis8:48

They are up to Muckle Flagger, the most northern part of the British British Isles.

Clare Francis8:53

But it it's it's it's a great race because you have stops, which are the most enjoyable. You have stops.

Presenter8:58

Yeah, non-stop.

Clare Francis8:59

No, it's not non stop, no. Oh, the the stop's the most difficult part, actually. It's the getting going again, you see.

Presenter9:06

You just stop for a party, or what what's that?

Clare Francis9:08

Well, more or less.

Presenter9:08

Let the others catch up. What's the point?

Clare Francis9:10

You have to stop for forty eight hours. Um whether you s arrive at three in the morning or or not, you you you can leave again at three in the morning or wait even longer if you want.

Presenter9:20

Well, you two did very well so well that you had rather a good offer.

Clare Francis9:25

Yes, I I was off at a boat for two years to take part in the transatlantic single-handed race.

Presenter9:32

You entered a qualifying race first.

Clare Francis9:34

Yes, that was to the Azores and back, which was a delightful race. There was no wind.

Clare Francis9:40

Uh lots of sunshine.

Clare Francis9:42

and a a lovely stop over in the Azores.

Presenter9:45

Now this sort of thing costs a lot of money. You had that generous offer of of the boat, but you had to get some commercial backing, obviously.

Clare Francis9:52

Yes. Uh sponsorship well, without sponsorship, uh racing competitively in boats i is impossible nowadays. They cost an enormous amount of money. And an ex employer of mine

Clare Francis10:04

uh offered me just enough sponsorship to keep me going.

Presenter10:08

And you also got some sponsorship from the BBC, I believe. They wanted you to fit an automatic film camera on board. That didn't make life easier, I suppose.

Clare Francis10:17

No, it didn't. They promised me fully automatic equipment. In fact, it was a great deal of work. But I mean, I forgave them, although it was a tremendous nuisance, because the film afterwards is was uh uh came out surprisingly well. I I thought it would be cover though. The lens would be covered in salt so much that nothing would show. But in in fact it was a record that I can keep and show when I'm sixty.

Presenter10:41

Well the film, of course, was shown on B B C television and and had a great success. I've been reading your book, Come Hell or High Water, and I'm appalled at the amount of work that has to be done in equipping the boat.

Clare Francis10:54

Well, it does, and and you've got to have a long time to do it in. Had eighteen months to prepare for this race, which was just about the right length of time, actually.

Presenter11:02

How many starters were there in the race?

Clare Francis11:04

There were one hundred and twenty five and um in fact only

Clare Francis11:09

About seventy five arrived at the finish. Most of them had to put back.

Presenter11:13

Well, let's talk about the race in more detail. Have another record first. What's that?

Clare Francis11:17

Well, this is Edith Pierr.

Clare Francis11:20

I love her songs and I'm getting uh to know the French way of life because I'm I'm marrying a Frenchman in fact.

Presenter11:27

Very soon. In fact, by the time this programme goes on the air, we are pre-recording it, of course, you will, in fact, be Mrs.

Clare Francis11:28

By the time

Presenter11:36

And Jacques Roydon, of course, is is a yachtsman.

Clare Francis11:38

Yes, indeed, I met him on the Round Britain race. So this is Edith Piaf, and the song is Ceta Amburg.

Speaker 411:46

C'estabour la Santiago, a watch chapelle borneux. C'estabour la Santiago, a wa teramu afrisco.

Clare Francis11:52

Set up

Speaker 411:59

Hello boys.

Speaker 412:01

You come with me?

Speaker 412:03

Amigo.

Speaker 412:05

The Kadomozo lay blame.

Speaker 412:08

Come to meet me.

Presenter12:11

Edit Piaf Seta Amburg

Presenter12:14

So a hundred and twenty five boats ready to sail from Plymouth.

Presenter12:17

You got lost right at the beginning.

Clare Francis12:21

Yes, well, it was the excitement of the start. I didn't attend to my navigation.

Clare Francis12:25

And I thought I was going round um the only corner we in fact we had to go round at all.

Clare Francis12:31

And it wasn't that corner, it was another one, and I found I was nearly going into Falmouth Harbour. So it was nearly a very, very short voyage.

Presenter12:37

It was nice.

Presenter12:40

You elected to take the northern course, this time the shorter one.

Clare Francis12:43

Yes, the direct route actually takes you quite far north, and what I think a lot of people don't realize is that the western North Atlantic is extremely cold in summer.

Clare Francis12:54

It takes you through icebergs and thick fog.

Clare Francis12:58

um and all kinds of um intemperate weather.

Presenter13:02

You are wet and miserable most of the time.

Clare Francis13:05

Not miserable. Um I think one will put up with almost anything when it's of your own doing. I mean, I knew that I had chosen to do this thing, so

Clare Francis13:15

You can't really complain, and anyway there's no one to complain to.

Presenter13:18

True.

Clare Francis13:19

So

Presenter13:20

You had your self-steering device, but even so, how long could you sleep at a time?

Clare Francis13:25

Well, I chose to sleep only one hour at a time, at the very most, because I felt I should look for ships, which are the greatest danger of all.

Presenter13:32

In Rondan.

Clare Francis13:33

Being run down, they don't expect to see small craft, and they they possibly can't see you even if they're looking very hard.

Clare Francis13:41

So you have to really keep out of their way as much as possible. But of course you have to sleep as well. So you have this terrible choice of of of sleeping or or looking.

Presenter13:51

Your self-steering device was broken at one point.

Clare Francis13:54

Yes, this was serious because obviously if if if you have to steer all the time, you can't do anything else, you can't navigate, you can't sleep and you can't cook. Uh

Clare Francis14:03

So it it really does limit you tremendously. I I would have had to have made for the nearest land if I hadn't been able to repair it. I had a terrible job repairing it actually because um

Presenter14:12

I don't imagine maybe

Clare Francis14:14

Metal work is not exactly my forte.

Presenter14:16

Especially in rough weather.

Clare Francis14:17

Oh, very much so. I it was um rather difficult to take the thing apart, let alone repair it.

Presenter14:23

How long did the voyage take?

Clare Francis14:25

It took four weeks and one day twenty nine days.

Presenter14:28

And you beat the women's record by what?

Clare Francis14:31

By three days, in fact. But you know, I

Clare Francis14:35

I didn't ex exactly go out to beat it. I I went out to do what I th thought m I and the boat could do together. And also I had this strange idea to arrive by the Fourth of July. I sort of got my mind fixed on it.

Presenter14:48

You wanted to be there for the party.

Clare Francis14:50

Well, yes.

Presenter14:51

And you work.

Clare Francis14:52

Yes, I just made it. I sailed it on the morning of the fourth of July.

Presenter14:55

Grung.

Presenter14:57

Record number five.

Clare Francis14:59

Well, this is um a record, or rather a tape.

Clare Francis15:04

I play a great deal when I am I'm at sea. I don't know why, it's something that that moves me a great deal. And perhaps I I should play always when I'm on my own, because it usually makes me cry. And it is an aria from the opera Pagliacci.

Speaker 415:22

A sleep what

Speaker 415:43

Uh

Speaker 415:52

One of me.

Speaker 415:59

Maria

Presenter16:17

Placido Domingo Impagliaci. Now, Claire, you're off again. You're off on the round the world race this time.

Clare Francis16:25

Yes, this is um I will say never again, at the end of every single venture.

Presenter16:29

But you're not on your own now.

Clare Francis16:31

Well, no. I said never again single handed at the end of the last uh race, and I meant that very much. I certainly won't go single handed again.

Clare Francis16:40

But the round the world race is different. It it's the perhaps the ultimate race, twenty seven thousand miles in a big ocean racer with uh a full crew, including of course Jacques, who did the last race.

Presenter16:54

How big is the crew? A full crew?

Clare Francis16:56

It well, it's it's twelve people in all, including myself.

Presenter16:57

Yeah.

Presenter16:59

Two watches, three watches, how many does it take to

Clare Francis17:02

It's basically two watches of five. The cook doesn't have to keep watch. Everyone's so grateful at having any decent food at all for it.

Presenter17:08

Yeah.

Clare Francis17:08

They'd do anything for the cook, and then I don't keep watch, um but I'm on call the whole time.

Presenter17:14

And when do you start?

Clare Francis17:15

It's august the twenty seventh from Portsmouth.

Presenter17:19

In which direction?

Clare Francis17:20

Ah, it goes to Cape Town?

Clare Francis17:22

Auckland, Rio de Janeiro, and then back to Portsmouth. So it's east about.

Presenter17:27

Taking how long?

Clare Francis17:28

Eight months in all, with stops, so we get back in April of'seventy eight.

Presenter17:33

That's a long haul, isn't it? Yes, it is. What a wonderful trip. Does it have to be a non-stop

Clare Francis17:34

Uh

Presenter17:38

White

Clare Francis17:38

No, we we we stop for two weeks in in in Cape Town and and Auckland and Rio. Um the others catch up, uh hoping we're ahead, that is and then we all start ag uh together.

Presenter17:49

Again.

Clare Francis17:53

I think this record will be Brahms' Fourth Symphony, which is one of my favourites. I have many favourites among Brahms and Tchaikovsky, but perhaps this is my favourite at the moment.

Presenter18:54

An excerpt from the Brahms Fourth Symphony

Presenter18:57

Herbert von Carrian conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra. Now, obviously.

Presenter19:02

You have shown, on a number of occasions, what a resourceful lady you are.

Presenter19:07

No particular problems in looking after yourself on a desert island, I'm sure you could rig up.

Presenter19:11

adequate shelter,

Clare Francis19:14

When faced with a situation like that,

Clare Francis19:16

Anybody would do all they could to make themselves busy.

Clare Francis19:20

And I would certainly be no exception. I think I'd I'd rush around finding wood and trying to make a shelter.

Clare Francis19:26

And trying to fill my time. It's back to what I was saying, that the best thing is not to think too much.

Presenter19:29

Yes.

Presenter19:31

Would you try to build some kind of craft?

Presenter19:34

Oh yes I'd have

Clare Francis19:34

Oh, yes, I'd have to, wouldn't I?

Clare Francis19:37

I think I would have to and I'd have to weave a sail out of coconut palms.

Presenter19:41

Is that huh?

Clare Francis19:42

I think I'd have a go at at at sailing away.

Presenter19:45

And navigation.

Clare Francis19:47

That would be a little bit of a problem.

Clare Francis19:49

If I knew roughly where I was, I think um I'd try to go by the stars or something, but it would be a tremendous problem, the navigation.

Presenter19:57

What's your next record?

Clare Francis19:59

Well, I think now I'm cast away I'd have something very calming.

Clare Francis20:03

And I think I would have the light of experience by oh my goodness, I'm gonna have to try to pronounce this Yorge Samfir.

Presenter20:11

Yes. Where does he come from?

Clare Francis20:13

Romania.

Presenter21:15

Some Romanian music, the light of experience. When we come to your last record.

Clare Francis21:21

Well, that will be V Dor's To Carta, which is

Clare Francis21:25

music that is full of hope and optimism and I think I'd play that a great deal on my desert island.

Presenter22:25

The Vido Tocata, Fernando Giamanni, at the organ of Selby Abbey. Music of hope and optimism, as you said. Also wedding music. Is there significance in that?

Clare Francis22:35

Yeah.

Clare Francis22:36

Well yes, it it by the time you hear this it will have been my wedding music.

Presenter22:41

Splendid. And one discard of the eight, which would that be?

Clare Francis22:46

La Maire, because it is so beautiful.

Presenter22:49

And one luxury to take with you?

Clare Francis22:51

Well, that's easy. Having spent a lot of my life being sprayed with salt water, it would be a fresh water shower.

Presenter22:59

and one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Clare Francis23:03

I think it would be a complete book of physics, because I know nothing about physics, but I'd love to know an awful lot about it. So I think that would keep me occupied for about twenty years.

Presenter23:14

Right. Well, thank you, Claire Francis. Thank you, Madame Rodon, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc.

Clare Francis23:21

Thank you very much indeed.

Presenter23:23

Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 223:42

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Dists archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.