Egon Ronay

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

Our castaway this week is the food and wine expert Egan Ronnie.

Presenter0:37

Egan, what are your views on background music in restaurants?

Egon Ronay0:41

Well, I'm afraid I don't like background music uh of any description. You know, restaurants sometimes try to uh categorize themselves into certain to a certain level by playing Bach or something like that. But whether it's pop or bach or uh whatever type of music, I think background music has no place in a restaurant.

Presenter0:54

That

Presenter1:02

Apart from that, you're you're very fond of music. You are in fact a good amateur pianist.

Egon Ronay1:07

Well, I used to be. I don't play any more. Good. I think you're paying me a compliment. I was affair and uh played the piano for a

Egon Ronay1:14

Long time. You had a very distinguished teacher.

Egon Ronay1:17

Yes, he was chosen by my mother. Like every mother, she thought that her son is going to be a wonderful pianist, which I never became.

Egon Ronay1:26

In those days I was living in Budapest, of course, and she chose a man whose name you you won't know, a man called Toman, who actually was in his seventies and he was a pupil of Liszt, believe it or not.

Speaker 11:40

You leave.

Egon Ronay1:42

It's quite incredible. And furthermore, he also taught with considerably greater success Bart Talk and Dok Nanye. And you.

Presenter1:52

Oh.

Speaker 21:53

Yeah.

Egon Ronay1:54

Uh

Presenter1:54

Quite. You mentioned, Budapest, that you are, of course, Hungarian. May we expect your country of birth to some extent to colour your choice?

Egon Ronay2:03

Yes, uh of course unavoidably it must. Music formed very much part of our uh cultural and even social make up.

Presenter2:12

Looking at your list, can you see any plan operating in in the reasons for your choices?

Egon Ronay2:18

Not really. Perhaps uh with one exception that uh naturally having played a bit uh piano myself,

Egon Ronay2:25

It would perhaps be best if we started with um something I used to love to play and was only allowed to play uh after a lot of uh other things which were less enjoyable, you know, the hour or an hour and a half practice every day and so on and that's Claire de Lune by Debussy.

Speaker 23:44

Walter Gieserking playing Debussy's Claire Delune.

Egon Ronay3:48

Were you born in in Budapest?

Egon Ronay3:50

No, I was born in another town in Hungary.

Egon Ronay3:53

but lived in Budapest from a very early age. I was about two when we moved into Budapest, and that's where I grew up. By all reports, before the war it was a fabulous city. It was a fabulous city. It had great gaiety and a lot of life.

Egon Ronay4:05

and a lot of uh glitter and uh glamour.

Egon Ronay4:09

and uh life was enjoyable at almost every level.

Egon Ronay4:14

Except, of course, there was also a great deal of poverty.

Presenter4:17

Your father and your grandfather were both in the hotel business. Yes, the

Egon Ronay4:20

They were. Uh

Egon Ronay4:21

Was it? Yeah. Yeah.

Presenter4:22

Uh

Egon Ronay4:22

Early

Presenter4:22

Yeah.

Egon Ronay4:23

Ambition

Presenter4:23

Shmu.

Egon Ronay4:23

Uh

Presenter4:23

Viewers to follow and the

Presenter4:25

Family tradition.

Egon Ronay4:26

Oh, yes, uh this has always been uh a plan of mine.

Presenter4:30

In fact, you took a law degree at university.

Egon Ronay4:33

I did, but that was only because I didn't need to start on my career very early, and it really filled in time, and uh um I liked the idea of uh continuing my studies and uh that's how I took a law degree.

Presenter4:48

So

Egon Ronay4:48

So

Presenter4:50

Yeah.

Egon Ronay4:51

And in between, however, I started uh uh training in one of my father's restaurants in the kitchen and went through all the department and in fact uh finished my training in London at the Dorchester Hotel. Were you? What sort of departments? Did you go right through the hotel? Well, um I was mainly concerned uh first with the kitchens, then with the control office and finally with the reception.

Egon Ronay5:13

And when war broke out, you were back in Budapest? I had to go back because my father fell ill, and he had rather extensive concerns or investments and so on in the restaurant business, so I had to go back to try and run those. I was terribly young then, but

Egon Ronay5:28

Anyway, I tried to cope with that.

Presenter5:30

Let's have your second record. What's that to be?

Egon Ronay5:32

Well, something that would reflect the very deep rooted feeling for Hungarian atmosphere that anybody who has lived in Budapest and in Hungary in general couldn't avoid to enjoy.

Egon Ronay5:45

And that is

Egon Ronay5:47

Bartok's Hungarian sketches, particularly the evening in Transylvania.

Presenter6:54

Evening in Transylvania, Bartok's Hungarian Sketches, the Budapest Symphony Orchestra conducted by Miklaus Erdey.

Presenter7:03

Now Hungary, technically at war with the Allies, was taken over by the Germans, then invaded by the Russians, so it had a hard time all round. When did you get out?

Egon Ronay7:12

Uh

Egon Ronay7:13

I got out in 1946 after the war. It wasn't easy, but I was very lucky inasmuch as I had a very great friend who was a very young man in those days. You know, after the war, very young people got to the top, so to speak. And this friend of mine became mayor of Budapest. He had many very good qualities. One of them was that he just was unable to get drunk, and therefore he could drink much more than the Russian commander of Budapest. And he could drink him under the table. And this is precisely how he procured for me.

Egon Ronay7:49

uh a Russian military permit to leave the city, which was necessary to have in addition to your passport. And this is how I was able to leave Budapest.

Presenter7:58

And you came to London, where of course you had contacts and you knew people already. What did you do?

Egon Ronay8:05

Well, I was very lucky because I became general manager of a restaurant concerned, which in those days was in Piccadilly.

Presenter8:13

But of course you wanted a restaurant of your own.

Egon Ronay8:15

Yes, for which I didn't have the money, because although my father was a very wealthy man, I couldn't bring anything with me. In fact, he lost everything later on.

Egon Ronay8:24

Um because of the political circumstances.

Egon Ronay8:28

But I managed to find a place which I opened on a shoestring, which was in Knightsbridge. It now doesn't exist.

Egon Ronay8:34

And that was believe it or not a French, not a Hungarian restaurant.

Presenter8:38

Was it successful?

Egon Ronay8:39

It was it had a very, very, very good reputation and in fact it it it led to all sorts of other things because uh I was asked at that time by the Daily Telegraph to join uh one of their so-called cookery brainstrusts and we traveled around the country with uh people like uh Isabel Barnett and uh Gilbert Harding.

Egon Ronay9:00

And uh this was of course very advantageous for my restaurant.

Egon Ronay9:05

And you began to write a column for the Daily Telegraph.

Egon Ronay9:08

Well, very reluctantly, in fact, I was asked to write something, which I first refused and then was persuaded to do.

Egon Ronay9:16

It was followed by a weekly column for six years, all about restaurants and food and cooking and wine, which of course was maimecci.

Presenter9:25

And that led eventually to your first guide to restaurants and hotels.

Egon Ronay9:29

Yes, soon after I produced my first uh guide, which was very much a one man

Egon Ronay9:35

thing I've

Egon Ronay9:37

researched it, wrote it, even sold it. It was a small thing. It was only ninety six pages.

Egon Ronay9:42

Covering how many restaurants? It covered, um, to be exact, 175 places.

Presenter9:49

And you had eaten at all of them, and investigated them yourself.

Egon Ronay9:51

No indeed. Uh I knew them inside out. This was mostly limited to London and surroundings.

Presenter9:57

Let's have your third record.

Egon Ronay9:59

Well, shall we have Beethoven's second symphony, the last

Egon Ronay10:04

Movement.

Egon Ronay10:05

which I particularly like because of its uh to me very appealing rhythmic qualities.

Presenter11:10

The opening of the last movement of Beethoven's second symphony, Herbert von Karian conducting the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter11:18

So, 175 London restaurants in your first guide 20 years ago. How many in your current edition? Nearly 3,000.

Egon Ronay11:27

Uh

Presenter11:28

That's progress, isn't it?

Presenter11:29

You don't do all the tasting yourself, of course, now you have professional and anonymous inspectors.

Egon Ronay11:35

Yes. We have uh about ten people who are employed full time by my um set up and they go around, travel up and down the country

Egon Ronay11:46

Anonymously.

Egon Ronay11:48

In restaurants and in hotels, they introduce themselves in the morning after they've paid the bill. What qualifications must they have?

Egon Ronay11:56

Well, first of all they must have stamina.

Egon Ronay11:59

Yes, for sure. Because it's a very difficult and arduous job which not everyone realizes.

Egon Ronay12:05

But really, basically, it needs good taste and common sense. And of course, we tried to choose, and we always do choose, people who have a fairly wide catering background and who have an international knowledge of particularly food, but also wine to some extent.

Presenter12:23

They have a lot of responsibility because your publications are now very influential.

Presenter12:28

And surely the system means that one man's opinion, and he may have a liver attack that day, can

Presenter12:35

possibly do a lot of financial damage to someone's enterprise.

Egon Ronay12:38

Well, there are two things about this. One is that we certainly go back more than once, perhaps more than two or three times, to places which are classified, degraded very highly, or where we have to change the grading because of circumstances, a change of ownership or chef and so on, it goes down substantially. We go back several times and we spend a lot of money on this. That's one thing. The other thing is that you must bear in mind that these people are so experienced that they go into a place and look around and smell around and taste the first morsel of food and they immediately gain the right kind of impression. So that I am quite happy about the fact that there is no real risk involved in this. Apart from the fact that if an inspector physically really doesn't feel well, which does happen, then he himself would say so and would recommend for somebody else to go there.

Presenter13:35

You get a lot of letters, I presume, from diners recommending places that they've been to, suggesting that it should be included.

Egon Ronay13:41

We get quite a sizable mail every morning and this we welcome very much, although we never follow blindly what people say. But it gives a very good uh basis on which our in our so-called inspectors can proceed.

Presenter13:57

In the twenty years of the guide's life, have you seen a very great improvement in the standard of restaurants and hotels?

Egon Ronay14:02

Tremendous.

Egon Ronay14:04

This can best be measured by the fact that, say, about ten, fifteen years ago, it was most important for any restaurant to open in a geographically or strategically good position. But now this is quite unimportant. You can open a restaurant anywhere.

Egon Ronay14:22

in in in one of the uh lesser known parts of a suburb of London or uh fifty miles from uh Glasgow, and people will flock there if the food is really good.

Egon Ronay14:35

Record number four keys.

Egon Ronay14:38

Well, shall we have uh the fourth Prandemo Cocerto by Bach, which is a record I love particularly.

Presenter15:45

The opening of Bach's fourth Brandenburg Concerto

Presenter15:48

The Bath Festival Chamber Orchestra, directed by Yehudi Menu.

Presenter15:52

In addition to hotels and restaurants, you've published separate guides to pubs.

Egon Ronay15:58

Yes, we have, over the years, published so called pub guides.

Egon Ronay16:03

And there is a new one which deals with not necessarily the catering aspect of pubs, although that comes into it, but the most beautiful, historically most interesting or most colorful pubs.

Presenter16:13

And I hope you'll give a special mention to the worthy ones that supply real ale.

Egon Ronay16:18

Yes, this this is mentioned under every entry when when this is the case.

Presenter16:22

Yeah. And

Egon Ronay16:23

Yeah.

Presenter16:23

You'll publish a a guide to transport cafes. Is there scope there? I mean, one bacon sandwich must be very like another.

Egon Ronay16:30

It isn't, you know, it is quite surprising that some transport cafes, at any rate, are unjustly maligned.

Egon Ronay16:38

because transport cafe food has become part of the British folklore.

Egon Ronay16:42

But really it is quite touching to see the effort that some families put into running these places and offer such

Egon Ronay16:50

incredible value, you know, three course meals for sixty P. And some of it is quite good and they do use a lot of fresh stuff.

Presenter16:59

And I'm sure they're much better than some of the motorway cafes.

Egon Ronay17:03

I think almost invariably the motorway cafes are with exceptions, but the majority of motorway cafes are simply below criticism. And I think more and more motorists just don't stop there, but rather drive off the motorway.

Egon Ronay17:18

Record number five, please. Well, I've chosen a piece from the Roman festivals of Respighi.

Egon Ronay17:24

and particularly the lottobrata.

Egon Ronay17:28

which really is the October Harvest Festival.

Egon Ronay17:32

I I can't think, and I I can't remember, any piece of music which is more atmospheric.

Presenter18:37

Lotto Brata, the October Harvest Festival from Respighi's Roman Festivals played by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by Eugene Ormondy.

Presenter18:47

Having to do so much professional eating, what do you like to eat at home?

Presenter18:52

Yeah.

Egon Ronay18:52

Ah well, um, like every good husband, I like my wife's cooking, although I cook myself.

Egon Ronay18:59

Um incidentally, uh her uh background is very much in music.

Egon Ronay19:05

When she was a child she was a concert pianist. But uh now she turned her creative efforts to cooking and but nothing uh unless it's marinated for three days.

Egon Ronay19:16

No, but joke apart, uh it's the simple things we value most. I mean, a roast partridge, for instance, is better than anything I know.

Presenter19:24

Record number six.

Egon Ronay19:26

Well this

Egon Ronay19:27

is perhaps my favorite piece of music, which is the Peacock variation by Kodai, because it is very much an echo uh of the music with which I was brought up in Hungary.

Presenter20:25

Kodai's Peacock Variations conducted by Georg Leyl.

Presenter20:31

Now, this desert island situation. Have you done some

Egon Ronay20:35

Yeah.

Presenter20:35

Fishing?

Egon Ronay20:36

No, uh no, I I only enjoy the end product.

Presenter20:40

Have you done any cultivating?

Egon Ronay20:42

Not even that.

Egon Ronay20:43

So I would really be quite lost.

Egon Ronay20:46

On the other hand, I don't expect to stay very long uh there, you know. Don't forget that I got out of Hungary, so it wouldn't be a great problem to get out of Desert Island after you.

Presenter20:55

No game to escape. Yes. Good for you. Let's have record number seven.

Egon Ronay20:59

Well could this be the

Egon Ronay21:01

Dance of the Nights from my favorite ballet

Egon Ronay21:06

Uh Romeo and Juliet by Procofield.

Egon Ronay21:08

I I love the the uh fearsome menace in this.

Egon Ronay21:14

Particular part.

Presenter22:03

The Dance of the Nights from The Prokofiev Ballet, Romeo and Juliet, the Boston Symphony Orchestra conducted by Eric Schleinsdorff.

Presenter22:10

Now, your last record.

Egon Ronay22:13

Well, my rast record comes under the heading of higher musical education in quotes, which was brought to me really by my wife, who knows a very great deal more about music than myself.

Egon Ronay22:26

Uh uh but uh in my progression

Egon Ronay22:29

I reached the stage where I really do enjoy tremendously Kachaturyev's piano concerto.

Presenter23:37

Part of the second movement of the Cacciurian piano concerto, Sir Adrian Bolt conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra,

Presenter23:44

Min drew cats at the piano.

Presenter23:47

If you could take only one disk out of your eight, which would it be?

Egon Ronay23:50

Oh, undoubtedly, the Peacock variations by Kodai.

Egon Ronay23:54

and one luxury to take with you.

Egon Ronay23:58

Well, can he be twelve, luxuries? Because I really would like to take a case of champagne with.

Presenter24:02

Only one case you'd you'd better have.

Egon Ronay24:03

Uh well, no, because you see uh one case, because I fully intend to escape very quickly.

Presenter24:08

Yes. And one book apart from the Bible, Shakespeare, and big encyclopedias.

Egon Ronay24:14

Well, I think perhaps um uh something that has a lot of meat in it, and therefore wouldn't get tired of reading it several times if I had to, and that would be War and Peace by Tolstoy.

Presenter24:25

Tolstoy's War and Peace. Would you like it in English or Hungarian?

Egon Ronay24:29

Well, I don't read Russian, so I might as well read it in English.

Presenter24:32

In English. And thank you, Egan Ronay, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Egon Ronay24:37

Well, thank you very much. It was so pleasant. I hope you'll join me on the desert island.

Presenter24:40

With pleasure. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 124:51

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.