Barry Tuckwell

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy seven, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:32

Our castaway this week is the French horn player Barry Tuquill.

Presenter0:37

You're an Australian, Barry. From which part of Australia? I was born in Melbourne.

Presenter0:41

Do you come from a Milscho family?

Barry Tuckwell0:42

Yeah.

Presenter0:43

Yeah.

Barry Tuckwell0:43

Yes, my

Barry Tuckwell0:44

Father, his two brothers and his sister were all musicians and my sister and I were both brought up musically and both became professional musicians.

Presenter0:57

How many of the eight disks you choose?

Barry Tuckwell0:58

Chosen are nostalgic.

Barry Tuckwell1:01

I haven't got any, officially speaking, nostalgic records. The works...

Barry Tuckwell1:08

I'm I'm taking with me, I know, anyway.

Barry Tuckwell1:10

and I have them in my head, and what I have taken

Barry Tuckwell1:14

uh not a collection of

Barry Tuckwell1:16

works but a collection of performances.

Barry Tuckwell1:19

What's the first one?

Barry Tuckwell1:21

Prokofiev.

Barry Tuckwell1:23

Sinfonio Concertanti, for cello and orchestra. Who was the soloist? Rostapovich.

Barry Tuckwell1:29

I was terribly inspired by his playing when

Barry Tuckwell1:32

I first heard him play w uh this was the Schumann concerto and

Barry Tuckwell1:37

In that first E natural that the cello plays, he

Barry Tuckwell1:41

built up a complete world of sound. He could do so much with one single note.

Barry Tuckwell1:47

But I haven't chosen the Schumann concerto. I've chosen the Brokofiev.

Barry Tuckwell1:51

One gets the feeling he can go out another octave.

Barry Tuckwell1:54

Always without any problem. And this is a real spine-chilling recording.

Presenter3:01

The closing passage of Brokofiev's Sinfonia Concertante, with Rostopovich as soloist, and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Malcolm Sargent.

Presenter3:11

Did you have an idea very early on that music was to be your career?

Barry Tuckwell3:15

There didn't seem to be anything else to do. This was the one thing that was my life. The only problem was that I wasn't really any good at any of the instruments that I learned.

Barry Tuckwell3:26

What did you learn first? Piano.

Barry Tuckwell3:29

Uh, largely because my father was a keyboard instrumentalist.

Barry Tuckwell3:33

and when my legs

Barry Tuckwell3:35

grew, I started to play the organ.

Barry Tuckwell3:39

And I also

Barry Tuckwell3:40

attempted to play the violin. Where did you study? In Melbourne originally and then in Sydney when we the family moved to Sydney.

Presenter3:48

How old were you when you tackled

Barry Tuckwell3:49

The horn for the first time. And how did it come about? I was thirteen and

Barry Tuckwell3:55

It was literally uh a case of

Barry Tuckwell3:58

Well, he must be able to play something. He is musical. And a friend lent

Speaker 24:01

Here's men.

Barry Tuckwell4:05

me an instrument and gave me some lessons.

Barry Tuckwell4:07

And it worked. It was something I had an aptitude for. And I was very interested in it, too. Let's have your next record. Brahm's Serenade, in D.

Barry Tuckwell4:18

It's the performance of the LSO conducted by Certes, and I admired him enormously.

Barry Tuckwell4:25

And I think this particular recording represents the

Barry Tuckwell4:29

high spot of his association with the LSO.

Presenter5:33

Part of the third movement of the Brahms Serenade for Orchestra in D, Kirtesch conducting the London Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter5:41

So you are a horn player. When did you make your first professional appearances, and where?

Barry Tuckwell5:47

I first played in Sydney, where I was studying.

Barry Tuckwell5:49

I played as an extra with the Sydney Symphony Orchestra. Mm-hmm.

Barry Tuckwell5:54

And when I was fifteen, I

Barry Tuckwell5:56

went to the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra as third horn. That was as a permanent member of the orchestra.

Presenter6:02

fifteen.

Presenter6:03

Were there other members of the orchestra as young as that? Uh

Barry Tuckwell6:05

No, I was the baby by a long way.

Barry Tuckwell6:09

I should think so. How long did you stay? Well, I stayed in Melbourne for about six months, and then went back to Sydney, where I joined the Sydney Symphony Orchestra, and I stayed there for three years. When did you decide to come to London?

Barry Tuckwell6:21

I'm not quite sure. I think that something that grew.

Barry Tuckwell6:25

and developed and eventually I thought, well I think I will go and see what's happening on the other side of the world.

Barry Tuckwell6:32

It wasn't in any way that I wanted to stay here in Britain, but in fact I came to

Barry Tuckwell6:38

England

Barry Tuckwell6:40

Because it was the logical place to go to. It seemed to me an important

Barry Tuckwell6:44

Place.

Barry Tuckwell6:45

And somehow I just got stuck. Still in your teens? I was nineteen.

Barry Tuckwell6:51

Let's have record number three.

Barry Tuckwell6:53

Well, I felt that I was going to need some

Barry Tuckwell6:57

Serious challenge, some intellectual stimulation on this desert island.

Barry Tuckwell7:02

And so I've chosen a work that I really don't understand, the Schoenberg trio, Op. 45, for violin, viola, and cello. I've heard it perhaps three or four times, and I find it very elusive.

Barry Tuckwell7:18

And so this is going to be my big task.

Presenter8:16

An excerpt from Schoenberg's String Trio played by members of the Juilliard Quartet.

Presenter8:22

So you came 13,000 miles, Barry. Had you contacts here already?

Barry Tuckwell8:27

In a minimal way, yes, I I knew a few people here.

Barry Tuckwell8:30

But uh

Barry Tuckwell8:31

I did nothing very much for the first few months in London.

Barry Tuckwell8:35

I went to concerts and I went to the opera. I had a wonderful time. And uh then

Barry Tuckwell8:40

I took a job at Buxton Spa.

Barry Tuckwell8:43

and played for the summer of nineteen fifty one. What sort of music did you play?

Barry Tuckwell8:48

We played every type. We were a small orchestra during the week. I think

Barry Tuckwell8:54

About twenty-five, maybe less players, twenty players.

Barry Tuckwell8:58

Fridays and Sundays we had an augmented orchestra of 32 when we played Tchaikovsky symphonies, Shaherizade.

Barry Tuckwell9:07

But two horns, so one had to play all the parts. And that I found that a lot of fun. And you enjoyed that song? Great fun. Yes, it was terrific. I also learnt to play bowls.

Presenter9:16

A great asset.

Barry Tuckwell9:18

And then where did you go on to? Well, I went just up the road to the Halley Orchestra in Manchester.

Barry Tuckwell9:23

I stayed there for two years, and then I went up to Glasgow. Further up the road? Yes, uh to play with the Scottish National.

Barry Tuckwell9:31

And then I went to the Bournemouth Symphony.

Barry Tuckwell9:34

And this was important because this was my first job as First Horn. Yes. And I stayed there with Sir Charles Groves for one year.

Barry Tuckwell9:43

And in

Barry Tuckwell9:44

The opportunity came.

Barry Tuckwell9:46

to come to London with the London Symphony Orchestra.

Barry Tuckwell9:49

I was twenty four when I joined. Mhm. And uh

Barry Tuckwell9:52

I stayed there for thirteen years.

Barry Tuckwell9:54

Record number four, please, watch that.

Barry Tuckwell9:57

Another chamberburg, the Beethoven Quartet, op. 131, and again this is not so much the work that I've chosen, but the...

Barry Tuckwell10:06

The interpretation.

Barry Tuckwell10:07

by the Bush Quartet.

Barry Tuckwell10:09

This is really it.

Barry Tuckwell10:11

a magnificent interpretation of a really big

Barry Tuckwell10:14

Masterpiece

Presenter11:02

The Busch Quartet, the opening of the second movement of the Beethoven Quartet.

Presenter11:07

Opus 131 in C sharp minor. So, principal horn with the London Symphony Orchestra. You also began to play with the London Mozart players.

Barry Tuckwell11:15

Yeah.

Presenter11:16

Yes.

Barry Tuckwell11:16

Uh

Presenter11:16

Have

Barry Tuckwell11:16

Harry Blech gave me my big break as a soloist, in fact. He took me to East Germany on a tour with the orchestra and I played some concertos on that tour and then he gave me a solo date.

Barry Tuckwell11:32

In the festival hall?

Barry Tuckwell11:34

and has continued to give me

Barry Tuckwell11:36

An opportunity to play concertos with the Mozart players, for which I'm very grateful. So I feel a very warm affection and association there.

Presenter11:44

Benjamin Bretton also So gave you encouragement.

Barry Tuckwell11:47

Yes, that in fact was my first solo appearance in London. There were concerts organized by the English Opera Group, and I had played

Presenter11:53

And then I have

Barry Tuckwell11:55

in Aldborough.

Barry Tuckwell11:57

And he said.

Barry Tuckwell11:59

They had this series of concerts to encourage young

Barry Tuckwell12:02

artists, and would I like to give a recital, a lunchtime recital? So I said yes, of course.

Barry Tuckwell12:07

And uh duly gave that to an attendance of six people. Oh no. Where was it?

Barry Tuckwell12:15

At the Royal Court, it's an in Sloan Square.

Barry Tuckwell12:18

Now, it was a very distinguished audience.

Barry Tuckwell12:21

Benjamin Britton, Peter Peirce, Imogen Holst.

Barry Tuckwell12:24

Friend of mine, critic from the Daily Telegraph, and one other person who I often wondered about.

Barry Tuckwell12:31

until two years ago. In fact

Barry Tuckwell12:33

I'm at

Barry Tuckwell12:34

A woman in America who said that she had come

Barry Tuckwell12:37

To a concert of mine in London. I said, Oh, yes, which was that? and she said, A recital you gave.

Barry Tuckwell12:42

at the Royal Court Theatre.

Barry Tuckwell12:44

And at last I had found this missing member of the audience. I don't

Presenter12:49

Who hoped she'd paid for her ticket? She was the only one who did pay. I have an idea that series of concerts didn't last all that long.

Presenter12:58

You began, of course, to do a lot of work overseas, some of it with the orchestra, with the LSO.

Presenter13:04

and you began to take a great deal of interest in in the administration of the orchestra.

Barry Tuckwell13:08

Well, this happened by chance. The

Barry Tuckwell13:12

London Symphony Orchestra is

Barry Tuckwell13:13

A cooperative orchestra.

Barry Tuckwell13:16

It is run by its members, by the players.

Barry Tuckwell13:19

And

Barry Tuckwell13:20

It was difficult not to become interested in

Barry Tuckwell13:24

the workings of the orchestra.

Barry Tuckwell13:27

And I found myself a member of the board, and in time I was the chairman of the board, and so I was very much involved in the administration of the orchestra, which I found fascinating to be.

Barry Tuckwell13:39

very much a part of an organization that was developing and getting better and pulling itself up by its own bootstraps.

Presenter13:47

When did you leave the L S O? When was your thirteen years up?

Presenter13:51

I left in nineteen sixty eight.

Presenter13:52

And since then you've been working as a soloist and playing with your own ensemble. You have a a wind quintet. Yes, that is true. That was formed I think in the same year.

Presenter14:02

Yeah.

Barry Tuckwell14:02

A number of composers have dedicated works to, I believe, who in particular.

Barry Tuckwell14:07

Thea Musgrave, Ian Hamilton

Barry Tuckwell14:10

Alan Hodinot.

Barry Tuckwell14:12

Don Banks, the

Barry Tuckwell14:14

Most recent, um Richard Rodney Bennett has just

Barry Tuckwell14:17

completed a concerto for me which I will play at the next promenade concert.

Barry Tuckwell14:23

Record number five, what's that? Another orchestral work.

Barry Tuckwell14:26

The Great Symphony of Schubert, which I think is

Barry Tuckwell14:30

A serene work of continuing beauty.

Barry Tuckwell14:34

But the reason for my choice is that it's Joseph Cripps's interpretation, and it's the sort of work that he excelled in.

Barry Tuckwell14:44

And the little

Barry Tuckwell14:46

excerpt that I would like to suggest that we play.

Barry Tuckwell14:50

is one that Schumann referred to.

Barry Tuckwell14:53

He said that there was this distant horn call that appeared to descend from another sphere.

Barry Tuckwell14:59

and that everyone listens as if a heavenly guest is stealing around the orchestra. In fact, it's not a horn call, it's uh nine repeated G naturals.

Presenter16:10

An excerpt from the second movement of Schubert's Great Ninth Symphony, the London Symphony Orchestra conducted by Joseph Kripps.

Presenter16:19

Let's talk about the instrument. It's an exhausting instrument to play, isn't it?

Presenter16:24

It is very tired.

Barry Tuckwell16:24

Harring.

Barry Tuckwell16:26

It's tarring

Barry Tuckwell16:28

Mainly for the face muscles. They're quite delicate.

Barry Tuckwell16:31

and one has them tensed while one is playing.

Barry Tuckwell16:34

And

Barry Tuckwell16:36

Well, it just gets tiring.

Barry Tuckwell16:38

How long can you practice at a time? That's difficult to say. Many people.

Barry Tuckwell16:43

Ask me how long I practice, and I may say as little as possible.

Barry Tuckwell16:49

But I try and cram as much into, um, say, twenty minutes' worth of practising as I can, and I find that very tiring.

Barry Tuckwell16:56

Um I wonder when people tell me that they practised for five hours. I couldn't do that.

Barry Tuckwell17:02

Is there a big repertoire of solo works?

Barry Tuckwell17:04

We have a lot of concertos.

Barry Tuckwell17:06

The chamber music repertoire is varied. Each work tends to be for a different grouping of instruments. That is apart from the wind quintet.

Presenter17:16

Your next record, wherever we got to now.

Presenter17:19

Uh

Barry Tuckwell17:19

Schumann.

Barry Tuckwell17:21

whose music always gives me hope, however sad it may seem.

Barry Tuckwell17:26

And this Phantasia in C major, over 17, for piano, is a work that I've admired for.

Barry Tuckwell17:32

Well, many years.

Barry Tuckwell17:35

And this particular performance is one that is new to me.

Barry Tuckwell17:39

My wife and I were at a friend's house and we were talking about this work and they said, oh, we have the recording with Ashkenazi.

Barry Tuckwell17:48

We then listened to it, and it rather bowled me over.

Barry Tuckwell17:52

And so I'm taking it because

Barry Tuckwell17:55

It's a remarkable interpretation, a remarkable performance.

Barry Tuckwell17:59

Also because

Barry Tuckwell18:01

Yeah.

Barry Tuckwell18:02

Wanted to take a friend with me.

Barry Tuckwell18:05

And Ashkenazi and I have known each other for many years, first of all when I was in the LSO.

Barry Tuckwell18:11

We then gave some concerts together, chamber music, and

Barry Tuckwell18:15

have made some records together.

Presenter19:14

Ashkenazi playing the

Presenter19:16

Schumann Phantasier in C major.

Presenter19:20

Now, going back to your early days in Australia.

Presenter19:24

Did you live an open air sort of life, as as many Australians do? Did you, for example, have camping trips in the outback?

Barry Tuckwell19:30

Yeah.

Presenter19:32

No, no, I

Barry Tuckwell19:32

I lived in the cities. But I did go sailing. My cousin had a a boat and I would go racing with him as much as I could. You still go sailing too? Occasionally. Unfortunately, I don't have the opportunities.

Presenter19:46

All this is leading up to the desert island, of course. Could you construct some kind of craft?

Barry Tuckwell19:52

Oh, I think so. I'm

Barry Tuckwell19:54

in a rough and ready way quite competent.

Presenter19:57

And while it's a building, could you look after yourself? Food and shelter?

Barry Tuckwell20:01

Yes, I think I would enjoy finding out how to do that.

Presenter20:05

You sound a very resourceful man. Barry, we'll give you your first class castaways badge and move on to record number seven.

Barry Tuckwell20:11

Well, this is the Sebalius Fourth Symphony.

Barry Tuckwell20:15

This performance conducted by Pauvel Berglund.

Barry Tuckwell20:19

Is

Barry Tuckwell20:20

Quite extraordinary, and very, very strong.

Barry Tuckwell20:24

The symphony is one of those tantalizing, stimulating pieces that I think one would always

Barry Tuckwell20:32

find difficult to find

Barry Tuckwell20:34

The answer to. There's always something more.

Presenter21:37

Part of the third movement of the Sebalius Fourth Symphony, Pawu Berglund conducting the Finnish Radio Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter21:45

We haven't heard their voices yet.

Presenter21:47

Well, I

Barry Tuckwell21:47

Did want to take the ring, but

Presenter21:50

Yeah.

Barry Tuckwell21:50

Yeah.

Presenter21:51

Yeah.

Barry Tuckwell21:51

Uh

Presenter21:51

Uh

Barry Tuckwell21:51

But There's

Presenter21:51

difficult at all.

Barry Tuckwell21:52

On a

Presenter21:52

Eight discs.

Barry Tuckwell21:52

So then I wanted to take a Dominayo, but that didn't fit either.

Barry Tuckwell21:59

So I decided to take one disc of voice, and this is a recording of the four last songs of Richard Strauss with Lisa Dela Casa. Which song? Well, I want to take the lot, but the song that I feel shows the sort of thing that had attracted me to this particular performance is this sublime September.

Barry Tuckwell22:25

And

Barry Tuckwell22:27

In this performance, Lisa della Casa

Barry Tuckwell22:30

not only sings beautifully, but it leads up to

Barry Tuckwell22:35

Well here I've allowed myself four bars of horn music on Desert Island.

Barry Tuckwell22:39

These four bars of horn playing by Gottfried von Freiburg is rather, to me, the ultimate.

Speaker 222:55

Yeah.

Presenter23:47

September from the Richard Strauss Four Last Songs sung by Lisa della Casse.

Presenter23:53

If you could take just one disk of the eight, which would it be?

Presenter23:57

The Beethoven Quartet, opus one three one.

Presenter23:59

And one luxury to take to the island with you?

Barry Tuckwell24:02

I'd like to take the family photograph album.

Presenter24:04

Yes. Your wife and your three children?

Barry Tuckwell24:06

Some pictures also of Australia, of places that I've been to, but mainly that it will be having the family with me.

Presenter24:16

Right.

Presenter24:17

And one book to read apart from the Bible, Shakespeare, and we put the bar up on big encyclopedias. Swift, Gulliver's Travels.

Barry Tuckwell24:26

On the assumption that I'll always be on this island for the rest of my days, I'm going to have to have something that's capable of being interpreted on many levels.

Presenter24:35

I should take a more optimistic view. We'll try and get you rescued somehow. And thank you, Barry Tuckwell, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you for inviting me to your island. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 124:55

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.