Christopher Milne

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy six, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:29

This week our castaway is Christopher Milne, who is a bookseller in Devon. Perhaps I should add that his full Christian names are Christopher Robin.

Presenter0:39

Now I see from the list of your records that you have an interest in music. Where did you acquire it?

Christopher Milne0:45

Well, I acquired it at school, where I found that I could sing, and I got into the school choir, and quite quickly became one of their soloists. So most of my early pleasures was in singing hymns, anthems, carols, and that sort of thing.

Presenter1:02

Is is there any kind of plan in this list of records you've given me?

Christopher Milne1:05

Yeah. Oh yes, there is. Um in the first place, I most certainly don't want to take records with me that will remind me of the past. I think if you go to a desert island you are much more concerned with the present than with the future.

Christopher Milne1:17

And secondly, I don't enjoy background music, and on my desert island I should be sitting down listening to it with all my attention, and therefore I want my music to uplift me, to fill me full of good resolutions, and make me feel twice the man and able to tackle the crocodile or whatever it is that I might need to tackle.

Presenter1:36

Where do we start? What's your first one?

Christopher Milne1:38

We start with an anthem that I sang at school. It's by Samuel Sebastian Wesley called Blessed be the God and Father.

Christopher Milne1:46

I can still hear myself singing the duet Love One Another.

Speaker 22:00

O pad from a tree see not you are what I want, see not here.

Speaker 22:19

What you are one of you

Presenter2:49

Wesley's Blessed be the God and Father by the choir of the Parish Church of St. Peter, Leeds. Christopher, we read in your father's books of your life at Cochford Farm in Sussex, of which you peopled with your toys, with Pooh Bear and Eor and Piglet and the rest. Were you born at Cochford Farm? No, I was not.

Christopher Milne3:06

No, I was not. I was born in London 1920 and then we moved to Cotswood Farm in 1925.

Presenter3:07

Yeah.

Presenter3:11

Well we

Christopher Milne3:11

Well, we split our our our life between London and Cotchford Farm in 1925.

Presenter3:16

Yeah.

Christopher Milne3:16

Yeah.

Presenter3:16

A very old house full of

Christopher Milne3:18

Yes, yes, an o an old farmhouse with which had been converted and changed and slights very, very slightly modernized.

Presenter3:18

Yeah.

Christopher Milne3:25

How old is it?

Christopher Milne3:27

Well, we used to say Queen Anne, and we look we looked at the beams in a knowledgeable way and and felt they were probably ship's timbers.

Presenter3:32

Your father was AA Milne, the playwright and novelist. Did he work at home? Yes, he did, yes. So there were silence zones, as it were.

Christopher Milne3:42

There were his his own private rooms called his his libraries, yes, and I I was not uh allowed to make too much noise to

Presenter3:49

Too near to them. You had a nanny, Alice, whom we've read about in the books. How much did she insulate you from your parents?

Presenter3:56

Well, her name wasn't really Anne.

Christopher Milne3:57

Panis at all.

Christopher Milne4:01

Well, in those days, nannies did insulate children from their parents. That was their job. That was what she was paid to do. And my life revolved entirely around her.

Presenter4:11

Really, you were presented to your parents neat and clean at certain times of the day.

Christopher Milne4:16

That's right.

Presenter4:18

E. H. Shepherd's illustrations, taken from life, show you in loose smocks and and long hair. This wasn't the ordinary appearance of of young country boys. Well, it wasn't all that common, but I

Christopher Milne4:29

I believe quite a lot of children, for all that, were dressed in that way. I mean I've I've had letters from contemporaries recently who who who have told me that that they too had to wear smocks and and long hair. So I was not unique. But certainly most of my contemporaries did have short hair and and and proper trousers and a proper shirt. And when I finally had that had uh

Christopher Milne4:52

Short hair. I I was very, very happy about it. Yes, you had felt self-conscious in the middle of the morning. Yes, I did, because it I think I re I I retained my long hair just slightly too long, I mean, in in long in time.

Presenter4:55

Yes, I did, because

Speaker 14:56

Uh

Christopher Milne5:01

Let's have your second record. What's that? Second one is another anthem, I Waited for the Lord by Mendelsohn.

Christopher Milne5:09

One that I

Christopher Milne5:11

When I first sang it in in in the chapel at school I made a mess of it. There are some rather tricky accidentals in in in the early bit and I I got them wrong and went flat and drifted into a different key.

Speaker 25:43

I felt it for the world, they in my head.

Presenter6:23

I waited for the Lord from Mendelssohn's Hymn of Praise, The Choir of Worcester Cathedral.

Presenter6:30

How old were you when you were given the famous Pooh Bear? I was one year old. Who gave him to you? My parents. He came from Harrods, I believe. He came from Harrods, I believe, yes. And you christened him, of course. I did, yes. Now, did Pooh start getting up to his adventures in London before you moved to Cochford Farm?

Christopher Milne6:47

Oh, yes. I mean, I I I had him for four years in London and and and he he came to life in those four years.

Presenter6:54

Yeah. A cot should, of course, put him in his natural habitat as a farm. And it was the right habitat for a boy who discovered all those splendid places, the enchanted places, galleons lap, the six pine trees, the hundred acre wood.

Christopher Milne6:56

Yeah.

Presenter7:06

Poo Sticks Bridge. Who was your confidant? Who did you play Poo Sticks with? With Nanny, with your father or mother? Or was it mostly a solitary game?

Christopher Milne7:15

Well, no, when I was quite young, I didn't go out, and there were quite some distances, a mile or two away, I didn't go out alone. I went w with my nanny.

Christopher Milne7:26

explored round about, trespassed like mad, I g I understand, and it was with her that that I I found these places first.

Presenter7:35

Your father, of course, knew all the secrets of of your games, because he put them in the books. Did you know he was writing about your adventures?

Christopher Milne7:43

Um yes, I think I did. Not too clearly, though. I mean, I I can't particularly recollect his reading the stories aloud to me as he wrote them. What was your reaction at at having your fantasies in print?

Christopher Milne7:57

Well, when I found that they were in a book, I think I I was excited and and and proud a little. And this gave me a a certain notoriety or fame among my friends, which I quite liked when I was that age. Well later, of course, it began to pall when I grew a bit older.

Christopher Milne8:16

Before we talk about that, let's have another record. Watch number three. Well, now we're having Grossini's first string sonata, written, I understand, when he was twelve years old. Why do you choose this?

Christopher Milne8:27

Because it's the music that, in gay moments on my island, I will dance to.

Presenter9:29

The end of the first movement of Rossini's first string sonata, The Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields conducted by Neville Mariner.

Presenter9:38

There are in fact only two Pooh books, aren't there? Yes, there are two books of stories. And two books of verses in which some of the verses are about you. That's right.

Presenter9:47

Do you think the fact he didn't write any more Pooh books was out of consideration?

Christopher Milne9:50

No, emphatically not. The the the poo books finished at the age of eight. They were after all about a child, uh a what you might call a pre-school child. The actual writing was was paralleled with my own age. What did you want to be as a schoolboy? Um, I had very little idea. I uh was keenest on mathematics and mathematics in those days led nowhere that I wanted to go. You went up to Trinity College, Cambridge. What did you read? I read mathematics too.

Presenter10:18

Now your university career was interrupted. You joined the Royal Engineers when the war started, served in the Middle East and Italy, you were wounded.

Presenter10:27

Then you went back to Cambridge, but you had changed to English. You decided to read English.

Presenter10:32

What a change your mind.

Presenter10:34

Well, a variety

Christopher Milne10:34

A variety of reasons. In the first place, um mathematics is a little like climbing a mountain. Um each step is a step above the previous steps and depends upon it. And if you're not careful, if you stop, you will slide down right to the bottom again. And in the five years that I had been away, I had slipped a lot and would have taken a long time to get back.

Christopher Milne10:58

Um, first thing. Secondly, mathematics led nowhere much except to teaching mathematics to others in those days. And I knew very well that I would be no good at teaching at all, so um there was no particular point in continuing for that reason. Thirdly, I wanted to do something which would give me those magic letters B A after my name in as short a time as possible. And you got your degree.

Presenter11:23

Yeah.

Christopher Milne11:24

Now what happened when you came down? My first job was with the COI, the Central Office of Information. Doing what? Well, my particular section was concerned with preparing briefs on the the international situation for speakers who then toured the factories and urged the workers to greater efforts.

Presenter11:48

Very worthy.

Christopher Milne11:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter11:50

Yeah. Uh that didn't last very long.

Christopher Milne11:52

No, I I found there wasn't quite enough for me to do and I got dreadfully bored.

Presenter11:56

You dips a little bit of broadcast.

Christopher Milne11:58

I did some broadcasting, yes. This was quite a triumph for me. What sort of things? Oh, well, the the first one was um a story o of of of a holiday in France. When I had written it, I I I then discovered that that that I was supposed to read it. And I was so terrified at the thought of reading it that I gave it to my wife to read, and she nobly read it for me.

Presenter12:00

What sort of

Presenter12:17

For twenty-five years you've been selling books in that beautiful town of Dartmouth. Has this been fulfilling? Oh yes, very.

Presenter12:24

Let's get back to music. What's number four?

Christopher Milne12:27

Number four is Cavalieria Rusticana. Mascani is

Christopher Milne12:32

Really one and only well-known opera, chosen because I wanted the drama of the opera.

Christopher Milne12:39

And in Italian opera you get all the drama that you can find in the world. Put three Italians together and you've got a dramatic situation immediately.

Presenter13:51

The Easter hymn from Mascagne's Cavalleria Rusticana, Maria Callis, in a recording conducted by Tullio Serafine.

Presenter13:59

How much work do you have to do i in administrating your father's copyright?

Presenter14:04

Uh none.

Presenter14:05

Oh, that's easy, isn't it?

Presenter14:09

What about all the spin-offs in the form of T-shirts and pottery and trays and so on? D are are you not concerned in that?

Christopher Milne14:16

Thank heavens I'm not concerned in that, except as to lament it.

Christopher Milne14:20

Um the copyright on those was sold to Disney uh before I had any uh hand in the matter at all. Not that I have any hand at all, but I mean Another record. Another record, which is this one. This is Schubert's great C major symphony, the ninth symphony.

Christopher Milne14:38

which I have chosen because there are so many themes in it and I feel that that they would go on round and round and round in my head long after I had heard the record.

Presenter15:46

The end of the first movement of Schubert's great C major and ninth symphony, Sir Adrian Bolt conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter15:55

You sell the pool books and the verse books, of course, in your own shop. Have you resigned yourself to everybody pointing you out as Christopher Robinson?

Christopher Milne16:03

Well, I think I know what to do, and when when that happens, yes.

Christopher Milne16:07

And dash up the stairs.

Presenter16:08

Yeah.

Presenter16:10

You've written your own account of Cochford Farm a and your childhood. The Enchanted Places. The Enchanted Places. Are you going to bring the story up to date?

Christopher Milne16:17

Uh

Presenter16:17

Yeah.

Christopher Milne16:18

Well, it'll be a different story that I bring up today. That was the story of of a boy who had quite a well-known name. The the uh the next one will be about a uh a young man who had uh had to make his own name.

Christopher Milne16:29

But I will bring it up today, it is.

Presenter16:29

That was

Presenter16:31

The next book's about Christopher Miller, not about Christopher Robinson.

Christopher Milne16:32

Uh

Presenter16:34

Record number six.

Christopher Milne16:36

Record number six is a carol. Um again, because I used to sing them, particularly I used to sing and enjoy singing.

Christopher Milne16:44

Death scants. My voice soared up into the

Christopher Milne16:48

rafters of the school chapel. I had no speaking voice at all. I spoke very badly and therefore for six days of the week I was miserable in form. Rather nice that on the seventh day I could go into the chapel and my voice came into its own and dominated. I like to think all the other voices there. One I've chosen is in Dulce Ubilo.

Speaker 218:01

Oh, that's dream.

Presenter18:11

The Choir of King's College, Cambridge.

Presenter18:14

As an imaginative only child, Christopher, you must have imagined yourself at some time alone on a desert island.

Presenter18:20

Does the prospect fill you with horror? No, with with with pleasure. Could you fan for yourself? Oh, easily, good lordies.

Christopher Milne18:26

Of course I could.

Christopher Milne18:28

Would you try you would try to escape? I would not try to escape. No, I'm I'm I'm no good on on the sea. I'm I'm I'm a land animal and I would stay on my island.

Presenter18:37

Record number seven.

Christopher Milne18:38

Record number seven is from Beethoven's Eighth Symphony.

Christopher Milne18:44

I heard this first.

Christopher Milne18:46

in Cambridge in nineteen in May nineteen forty.

Christopher Milne18:52

Shortly afterwards the university broke up, going down earlier than they would have done because of the state of the war. France invaded, France about to fall.

Christopher Milne19:04

So we all hurried home, me to Sussex, to join the local defence volunteers.

Christopher Milne19:10

and to wonder about the future.

Christopher Milne19:13

It had been intended that I should go back to Cambridge, but the news was not was not good, and I had my doubts and uncertainties.

Christopher Milne19:22

And

Christopher Milne19:24

I paced the fields of Cochford, and as I did so the aeroplanes flew overhead on their leisurely way to bomb London.

Christopher Milne19:31

And I wondered whether I was right to go back or what I should do, and as I was very slowly making up my mind, so

Christopher Milne19:38

The music of this symphony came back to me absolutely perfectly, movement after movement, theme after theme, perfectly remembered.

Christopher Milne19:46

And I've never been able to do that at any other time. I've never heard a piece of music once and then been able to remember it as I was able to remember this particular one. And it helped me, I think, to to make up my mind what I wanted to do, which was not to go back to Cambridge, but to join the army.

Presenter21:05

The beginning of the last movement of Beethoven's eighth symphony, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra directed by Carijan.

Presenter21:12

Now, your last disc. What's that?

Christopher Milne21:14

Is Brahms Symphony No. Two.

Christopher Milne21:17

Chosen? Oh, just because it's intensely moving.

Christopher Milne21:21

And um with that ringing in my ears, there's nothing much I couldn't do on my island.

Presenter22:25

The closing passage of the Second Brahm Symphony

Presenter22:28

Once again the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Claudio Abado.

Presenter22:34

If you could take only one of the eight records, which would it be?

Christopher Milne22:36

I would take that one.

Presenter22:38

The Brahms.

Christopher Milne22:39

A luxury to take to the island. Well, I'm told that I'm not allowed to take a pregnant cat, which was m my wife's suggestion. Pregnant cat? Yes, yes.

Presenter22:47

Uh What?

Christopher Milne22:47

Oh, because they would have kittens and what could be nicer? Oh, yes, I'm sorry.

Presenter22:50

I'm sorry, we cannot allow it. It must be in inanimate that's right.

Christopher Milne22:52

It must be

Christopher Milne22:54

Yes, so I am allowed to take, I'm pleased to be told, paper. So I ten, ten reams. Hundred reams of quarto paper.

Presenter23:00

Oh, a hundred hundred

Christopher Milne23:03

And pencils to check. That's lovely. That'll be fine. What are you going to write? Any ideas? Oh, but there's everything to write. In the first place, I I think I would want to survey my island, map it, and that would take quite a bit of time. And then study, of course, all the flora and fauna, the the uh the flowers, the trees, the insects.

Presenter23:04

Did you wanna move?

Christopher Milne23:21

uh the birds and and any mammals that I could find.

Presenter23:23

You've set yourself a pretty big project.

Christopher Milne23:24

But of course, well I've been for that a long time, I trust.

Presenter23:27

Ha ha ha ha.

Presenter23:28

And one book you already have on the island, the Bible and Shakespeare, and we put the bar up on big encyclopedias. Just one book.

Christopher Milne23:36

One book. I'm allowed to choose my Bible. Whichever version you like, yes. One in Italian, please, so that I could translate it. Certainly.

Presenter23:45

Yeah.

Christopher Milne23:45

And that will keep me busy also for a few more years. And one other book. And one other book.

Presenter23:45

And that hooky.

Christopher Milne23:49

which will be the book that I have read more often than any other, that inspired, if that's the word, my my my childhood, which I took with me, packed in my kit bag when I went abroad in nineteen forty two, and which goodness knows how, managed to come back with me in nineteen forty six.

Christopher Milne24:06

Richard Jeffries.

Christopher Milne24:08

Devis the story of a boy.

Presenter24:10

Bevis The Story of a Boy by Richard Jeffreys.

Presenter24:14

And thank you, Christopher Milne, ex-Christopher Robin, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Presenter24:20

Thank you. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 124:31

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.