George Guest

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy six, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:29

Our castaway this week is an organist, and he's the director of one of the most celebrated choirs in Great Britain, the choir of Saint John's College, Cambridge. It's George Guest.

Presenter0:40

How well could you adjust yourself mentally to a desert island existence?

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I should have thought it would have been.

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Rather easy, because I'm a person I think that

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needs and indeed likes solitude at times. Can you think of any one thing that you'd be very happy indeed to have got away from?

Presenter1:02

Yes, I think the noise of present-day life, particularly traffic noises.

Presenter1:07

Did you find it a hard task to narrow your chosen records down to eight?

Presenter1:13

Well, being a professional musician, the answer must be, of course, yes, because my tastes, I think, are pretty Catholic in music. Naturally, I think my choice would lean towards vocal music of various kinds, but also obviously one is very interested in all forms of music, and yes, the choice was very difficult. What's the first one you've chosen?

Presenter1:35

It's a quick patter song sung by Shan Emlin called Cavrier Gaver.

Presenter1:41

COUNTING THE GOATS

Speaker 21:44

Oh, Bessie, Rachel Wingarum line line, parking correctly, get the clearing carum tana, raspberry, line him line, park, cover the beardy, fill and fondy, askisakur dinachan fondy.

Speaker 21:59

Oh, Bethi, Rakhos Bwingaro, Manam Line, Park Carum Motiporiki Chaka Linkarundana Rakos Blue Wingarum, and I'm lying, Bar Cavar, Cabrwen, Beer Wen, Bellanko Von Wen, Hustlisakatina and Von Wen.

Presenter2:14

A Welsh folk song sung by Sharon Emlin, Counting the Goats. What's your second disc?

Presenter2:20

Part of the Elgar Cello Concerto, work of which I am very fond indeed.

Presenter2:26

The slow movement, played by Tortellier and conducted by Sir Adrian Bolt.

George Guest2:33

Yeah. Uh

Presenter3:30

The opening of the slow movement of Elgar's cello concerto, with Paul Tortellier as soloist, and Sir Adrian Belt conducting the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter3:40

Now, you are a Welshman. Whereabouts were you born? I was born in Bangor in Carnarvonshire. Do you come from a a musical family?

Presenter3:48

My father was a local organist, and my mother was fond of singing.

Presenter3:53

And so I think in that sense the answer is yes. Uh there was always a lot of music in our house. So obviously you were in the church choir at Bangor very early in life? Yes, I was um put into the cathedral choir.

Presenter4:07

And then when my parents moved on to Chester,

Presenter4:10

Then I joined the Chester Cathedral choir as a chorister, and of course so fostered a love for church music in all its forms which has never left me. Mhm. And then you went into the REF. Was there any music for you?

Presenter4:24

In the Air Force.

Presenter4:25

Well I was fair game, of course, for any church parades that uh were in the offing, but

Presenter4:31

The only regular employment I think I had as a musician was at a night club on the sands north of Bombay.

Presenter4:40

where I used to play soft music with plenty of tenths in the left hand during dinner time and and indeed after dinner for for dancing.

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And then after the war you went back to Chester as a sub organist? Yes, I went back just for about six or eight months, and then

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The organist of the cathedral at that time, Malcolm Boyle, one of the most wise

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and kind people that I have ever come across made me

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put in for the organ scholarship at St John's College, which was then vacant. I did this. There were probably very few candidates because of the war. Anyway, for whatever reason, I was successful, and there I became assistant to Robin Orr. I was organ scholar, assistant organist that is.

Presenter5:32

until 1951 when he retired from being organist in order to

Presenter5:38

devote more time to composition and I was uh offered the job and not unnaturally accepted it and I've actually been there ever since. Uh nineteen fifty one to sil y this is your silver jubilee year? It is, it is indeed. And you're also organist to the university. Now what does that entail?

Presenter5:58

I suppose the most important thing that one has to do is arrange the music for

Presenter6:04

The programme, which is given by a number of the Cambridge colleges.

Presenter6:09

To celebrate the election of a new Chancellor, and we are all at this moment anxiously awaiting news of a new appointment there.

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Apart from that

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It is the university organist's job to play the organ for six.

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University services a year.

Presenter6:31

And in this connection I ought to say that it's a very curious thing. They take place the services take place in Great St. Mary's Church, or the University Church, as it's sometimes known and there are two organs in there. One is a parish church organ for the use of the parish, and the other

Presenter6:48

An old Father Smith organ for the use of the university.

Presenter6:53

Well, that is the epitome of town and gown. Now, your third record, what's that?

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I've always been very fond, indeed, of plain song, and particularly of

Presenter7:05

The Interpretation of Plain Song

Presenter7:08

As uh we we hear

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in the monastery of Saint Peter at Salaim, and so I should like to have the monks of Selaim singing Salve Regina.

George Guest7:22

I think I'm whose place would heaven's beauty.

George Guest7:35

I praised the rest in the world.

Speaker 17:35

I think this be a love.

Speaker 17:48

Yeah.

George Guest7:56

Hey, I am Lord of God, I must love.

George Guest8:05

Heroes to miss any story.

Speaker 18:12

Oh.

George Guest8:16

I know this colour

Presenter8:22

The monks of the Abbey of Salem,

Presenter8:24

Salve Regina. Now let's talk about St John's College and the Quirry. St John's is one of the most ancient of the Cambridge colleges.

Presenter8:33

It is. It was re-founded in 1511, which I suppose makes it in one sense one of the more modern colleges. But for a number of years before that it had a separate existence as the hospital of St John, so that we like to think that we are in fact one of the most ancient of all the Cambridge colleges. How far back did the choir come into being, as far as is known?

Presenter8:58

Precise dates, of course, aren't known, but we still have choir music from the late seventeenth century.

Presenter9:06

which we sometimes use in actual performances, but it's not easy because some of the script is rather hard to decipher. Well it is and it's awfully interesting to see the doodles made by naughty choir boys inside the front covers of of what no doubt are the clergy, all dressed up in pediwigs and so on.

Presenter9:33

Which celebrated musicians have composed for the choir or been associated with it?

Presenter9:37

many, of course, through the ages, the most recent um composers, I suppose, to write specifically for the choir.

Presenter9:46

Uh

Presenter9:47

Sir Michael Tippett, who wrote a superb setting of the Magnificent Anunctimitis for us to celebrate the four hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the founding of the college in nineteen sixty one,

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Herbert Howells, who was acting organist during the war, and also Robin Orr, who is shortly to

Presenter10:08

retire from the chair of music at Cambridge.

Presenter10:12

How many choristers are there? Sixteen choristers and four probationers. They are the very little boys. Mhm. But there is, of course, a a choir school. There is a choir school. There's a quite an ancient choir school, which has fairly recently been extended. We now take a number of small girls and

Presenter10:31

The total number of children in the school is about 350 at the present time. What about the college organ? Is that an ancient one? It is. Like so many of these instruments, it can't be said to have been built at any one date. Part of it goes back to the mid-1640s. Lots of pipes were added in the 18th century, more in the early 19th, and it's been rebuilt, I think, twice in the present century.

Presenter11:06

Let's have record number four.

Presenter11:08

I was introduced to the music of Cleolane by my wife and have become a very devout supporter of all she does. I think she's a superb musician and I'd like honour Clear Day.

George Guest11:21

Create

George Guest11:24

On every day you will see forever.

Presenter11:50

Cleolane

Presenter11:51

To most of us, the St John's College Choir has become familiar through records. The choir has made a great number of discs in recent years.

Presenter11:59

Yes, I rather lost count. I say I I think it's about fifty. It's probably over fifty at present. Does the choir specialize in any particular form of of church music? No, we don't. We like to think that we do our best for all periods. Isn't there a a problem here in teaching very young boys very different, often contrasting musical forms and styles?

Presenter12:23

I don't think it's too big a problem really, given musical boys and given intelligent boys. And we're very fortunate in that respect in that the intake of boys is a very high one.

Presenter12:35

And we get boys all of whom

Presenter12:39

know something about different stars before they ever join.

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Your own son is a cornister at the moment. Yes, he is, poor chap, yes. He um has stuck it very well. He's going to leave and go on to his next school at at Christmastime.

Presenter12:54

But um it's a very curious relationship, because at times, you see, I have to refer to him as guest and he to me as sir. Other times, of course, it becomes David and Daddy. Yes, little confusing for it.

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A tremendous amount of rehearsal, of course. Yes, we have

Presenter13:12

The boys alone five mornings a week, at eight thirty in the morning for an hour.

Presenter13:18

And then we have a full rehearsal before each of our six even songs a week, the full rehearsal lasting for three quarters of an hour, and then um a couple of hours on a Sunday,

Presenter13:32

Of course the altru tenor and bass parts are taken by undergrad undergraduates, choral scholars, and they're as keen as mustard and they come along to extra rehearsals at the drop of a hat almost. And you travel a great deal. The choir travels a great deal. We do. We've sang in Switzerland for Yehudi Menuin.

Presenter13:51

We've sung in the concert gabau in Amsterdam, France, Belgium, Germany. We've done a tour of America and also Canada. In fact, it's an extremely busy life for everybody.

Presenter14:05

Now the other famous Cambridge Choir is of course the the King's College Choir. Is there deadlier rivalry between the two or anything of that sort?

Presenter14:14

I think there's probably

Presenter14:17

A certain amount of rivalry, good natured rivalry between the boys. I suppose it's natural, because the two choir schools meet on the rugby field and also on the cricket field.

Presenter14:28

On the other hand, um, there's very much less rivalry, I think, between the men.

Presenter14:33

who meet on more social occasions. We lend each other music from time to time. We even lend each other singers. There was one famous occasion some years ago when all the organists of King's were ill, and I and my assistant, the late

Presenter14:51

Brian Runnett ran the two choirs, uh all practices and all services for the space of three or four days, which was a a terrific experience.

Speaker 115:00

Uh

Presenter15:00

You are also, of course, a lecturer in the college.

Presenter15:03

Yes. Well, I'm Director of Studies in Music in St John's and also a lecturer in the Faculty of Music in the University. What are your other interests outside the University? The Welsh language, I know, is a great interest of yours. It is.

Presenter15:18

I knew quite a bit of it as a boy, but it wasn't systematic knowledge, and in the last five or six years I have got very interested in the literature of the country, and I've realized how much I and incidentally most people living in England

Presenter15:34

have missed by knowing nothing of the

Presenter15:38

Wonderful store of literature that there is in Wales the poems, the plays, the essays, the novels.

Presenter15:48

We've got now to your fifth record. What's that to be?

Presenter15:52

I've worked quite a lot with John Wilbraham, and I should certainly want to take

Presenter15:59

one of his records with me onto my desert island, and so I should like please Haydn's trumpet concerto in E-flat.

Presenter17:04

Part of the last movement of Haydn's trumpet concerto with John Wilbraham and the Academy of Saint Martin in the Field.

Presenter17:11

Record number six, please.

Presenter17:14

One of the great losses to European music was the early death of Marvid Sluinoin.

Presenter17:21

who promised to become one of the very significant composers, I think.

Presenter17:26

Of this century, and I should like the second of her two Madonna songs to Our Lady of Sorrows.

George Guest17:37

All upon my blood.

George Guest17:45

Yeah.

George Guest17:52

Sing my bit, my bros on his breath.

George Guest18:05

Under pity

George Guest18:18

See I brave it.

Speaker 118:19

I bring

George Guest18:29

Cold Words.

Presenter18:35

Janet Price singing To Our Lady of Sorrows by Morvy Fluent Owen.

Presenter18:41

Now, the practical side of being a castaway. Could you look after yourself? Were you ever a Boy Scout? I should think it highly unlikely. I never was a Boy Scout. I am notoriously unpractical, as indeed my wife most certainly would tell you.

Presenter18:57

I've no doubt at all that that I should barely last a week.

Presenter19:01

Oh dear. Could you escape?

Presenter19:05

Well, I can swim a little, but uh I don't think I'd bother. In fact, I think I should just subside into a deep sleep.

Presenter19:14

Oh well.

Presenter19:16

Let's get on to music again.

Presenter19:18

There are many groups in Wales singing at the moment, and one of the best, I think, is a group called Sidan.

Presenter19:25

Which means silk, and the sound they produce is a very silky sound.

Presenter19:30

And I'd like them singing a song called Kamalai, which means clouds.

George Guest19:44

Come down.

George Guest19:51

We are willing to have fun

George Guest19:53

Uh

George Guest19:54

On the click I get it a thing See the form of a metal

Presenter20:05

See Dan singing Komolai

Presenter20:07

What's your last record?

Presenter20:10

I should have to take with me a record of Saint John's Choir, I think.

Presenter20:15

And the one I would choose would be part of a fairly recent recording.

Presenter20:21

The Requiem Mass by Forae. This

Presenter20:25

needs, I think, to be sung by a small choir. I think it is entirely incorrect to sing it with an inflated choir of a hundred or two hundred people. A Requiem Mass is a very introspective, emotional and personal thing. And I think I would like to take with me Foray's Requiem, the In Paradisu.

George Guest21:13

There is not that.

Presenter21:50

St. John's College Choir in Paradisum from the Follet Requiem Mass.

Presenter21:56

If you could take just one disk out of your eight, which would it be?

Presenter21:59

It would have to be the last one. It would have to be the foray, I think.

Presenter22:03

And one luxury to take with you.

Presenter22:06

A clavichord, as long as I am permitted to take with me a tuning fork, because I haven't got perfect pitch, and a tuning key. That can be arranged. And one book apart from the Bible, Shakespeare, and big encyclopedias.

Presenter22:19

I think I would ask you to arrange for the complete works of Saunders Lewis to be bound into one volume, one of the really significant writers.

Presenter22:30

Of this century. Cruelly neglected, I may say, but I should be very happy to take that with me as my one book. The Works of Saunders Lewis. And thank you, George Guest, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much indeed. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 122:56

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.