Rosina Harrison

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy six, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

Our castaway this week spent fifty years in domestic service and has written a best-selling book about it, Rosina Harrison.

Presenter0:37

Miss Harrison, could you adjust yourself to loneliness for a long time?

Rosina Harrison0:41

And no, I couldn't.

Presenter0:43

What would you hate most about being on a desert island, apart from being alone?

Rosina Harrison0:47

The insects there, if there was any.

Rosina Harrison0:49

I couldn't bear them, and I never have liked scrawlers.

Rosina Harrison0:53

And uh

Rosina Harrison0:54

No, I wouldn't like I wouldn't like them at all.

Presenter0:56

What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Rosina Harrison1:00

Well, the bad weather in England, I must say, but of course abroad you get these hurricanes really. Well and you might get an earthquake and a volcanic eruption, and I would a oh, I couldn't stand that.

Presenter1:11

Are you fond of music? Very. Have you learned an instrument you play?

Rosina Harrison1:16

Yes, when uh I was a

Rosina Harrison1:18

Oh, about fourteen, twelve or fourteen, their mother.

Rosina Harrison1:21

She taught us all the piano, but of course one couldn't keep that up, you see. We had to earn some money instead of taking it off her.

Presenter1:28

Hmm.

Presenter1:29

Do you play a record?

Rosina Harrison1:30

No, I don't play records, but I listen to all the ones my brother in law plays on his uh grammar phone.

Presenter1:37

Did you have any plan in choosing your eight to take to a desert island?

Rosina Harrison1:42

No, I I chose them all because I liked them for one thing. They appealed to me, and I think they're beautiful pieces of music.

Rosina Harrison1:51

What's the first one?

Rosina Harrison1:52

Bless this house

Rosina Harrison1:54

And I've chosen that because I'm very fond of my home.

Rosina Harrison1:57

The little home we had in um Yorkshire was only a little country cottage.

Rosina Harrison2:02

But it meant everything to our family, and we lot o' pleasure we had in that old place.

Rosina Harrison2:07

And I like the flat I'm in now because I'm with my family the whole lot of us are together, under one roof.

Rosina Harrison2:14

And there's a peaceful atmosphere there.

Speaker 42:16

Blessed his house, O Lord, we pray, Make it a safe by night and the day.

Speaker 42:30

Bless these walls so firm and strong.

Speaker 12:34

Mm

Speaker 42:37

Eating one time and trouble.

Presenter2:44

Webster Booth singing Bless This House. What's your second record?

Rosina Harrison2:48

And Antino

Rosina Harrison2:50

And it was used to be played on a Sunday morning in Studley Church.

Rosina Harrison2:55

before the morning service, and we used to go there twice a day.

Rosina Harrison3:00

And I used to love to listen to the organist mister Taylor playing that piece.

Rosina Harrison3:05

and we loved it so much that when my sister married she asked for that to be played at her wedding.

Presenter4:06

La Maire's and Antino, played by Frederic Baker at the organ of Holy Trinity Church, Paddington.

Presenter4:13

Now, you were brought up in Yorkshire. Were you a country girl?

Rosina Harrison4:16

Yes, I was.

Presenter4:17

Now you said that things weren't easy, that there was nothing, you all had to pitch in and help.

Presenter4:24

You managed to stay at school until you were sixteen. How did you manage that? Because what, fourteen was the usual age for leaving school then?

Rosina Harrison4:31

Yes, but mm mister Lister, the head s the schoolmaster, tried to teach me a little bit more, but you see, he couldn't teach me any more than what was

Rosina Harrison4:38

Normally taught at an elementary school stuck on the edge of Dallagil Moor.

Rosina Harrison4:44

And my mother had ambitions. You see, I wanted to travel, and

Rosina Harrison4:49

To travel?

Rosina Harrison4:50

to be a ladies' maid, and my mother thought if I learnt French

Rosina Harrison4:55

That would be an asset.

Rosina Harrison4:57

And so I did, and I would have loved to have learnt the language fluent altogether, but I couldn't. My mother couldn't afford to pay for me.

Rosina Harrison5:04

Talked to me and she said, What would you like to be? And I said, A young lady's maid, I'd like to be a maid. And you have to have experience of dressmaking.

Rosina Harrison5:13

Anyway

Rosina Harrison5:15

I stopped at the dressmaking for two years, never earning a penny, so after that I went home, told my mother I wasn't staying there.

Rosina Harrison5:24

and I must get a situation.

Rosina Harrison5:27

Away from home.

Presenter5:28

The one Whoops.

Rosina Harrison5:29

But

Presenter5:29

A great deal of alternative for a country girl with no money. To domestic service, was there?

Rosina Harrison5:35

No, nothing at all.

Rosina Harrison5:37

You see, we were too far away from Ripon or anywhere to go into a shop, we'll say.

Presenter5:42

Yes.

Rosina Harrison5:42

Or I would have liked to have gone into a bank, but my mother hadn't the security money, so that was that.

Presenter5:48

and to be a lady's maid was aiming quite high up the ladder.

Rosina Harrison5:52

Oh, yes, it was. My mother got me a situation.

Rosina Harrison5:56

By writing to Massey's agency in London.

Rosina Harrison5:59

And applying for a situation for a schoolroom maid. You must be a schoolroom maid first.

Speaker 46:04

Yeah.

Presenter6:04

Uh

Speaker 46:04

Yeah.

Rosina Harrison6:04

Uh And I got the situation with uh Lady Anne Tufton's two daughters.

Presenter6:09

This is really a young lady's maid.

Rosina Harrison6:11

It's the basis of a young lady's maid, you say, yes.

Rosina Harrison6:14

The one young lady would be about eighteen, the other would be about twelve or fourteen. Well, the one was a marvellous pianist, and I used to have to take her to the Olean Hall and the Queen's Hall, and Miss Anne I had to take backwards and forwards to school, and then you had to learn how to look after them. How much money were you paid? Twenty four pounds a year.

Presenter6:32

And how much time did we get off?

Rosina Harrison6:34

Very little. In London I had half a day off and half a day on a Sunday, Sunday afternoon to do what you liked, and perhaps come in about nine o'clock at night. It just depended if you went to church you had to come straight home.

Rosina Harrison6:46

But in the country, well, it was different. It was easier because uh

Rosina Harrison6:50

We used to go out in an afternoon perhaps to the river and walk down the town shop. But we always went to the dances in the country. That was our free time.

Presenter6:58

How long did you stay in that first job?

Rosina Harrison7:00

Four years and four months.

Rosina Harrison7:02

Then I thought

Rosina Harrison7:04

I would like a change to go with a young married lady because one gets more experience.

Rosina Harrison7:09

I thought she's older and one would have more responsibility and I would travel. She took me everywhere with her. I went to the um all the dressmaking shows in Paris, which I love.

Rosina Harrison7:21

and I went to Rome with her, I went to Aise in the south of France with her. It gave me great experience. I was responsible for luggage and and travelling alone and all that.

Presenter7:32

Well now before we go on to talk about the job which became virtually your life work, let's have your third record.

Rosina Harrison7:39

My third record is Over the Wings of a Dove.

Rosina Harrison7:43

And I've chosen that because I used to sing in Studley Church Choir myself.

Rosina Harrison7:49

And when I heard this record I thought he sang most beautifully, that boy.

Rosina Harrison7:55

And I admired it very, very much, so that is why I've chosen that record.

Presenter8:59

O for the wings of a dove, Master Ernest Luff and the Choir of the Temple Church, London.

Presenter9:05

Now, this job that was to last so long, that was with the Astor family.

Rosina Harrison9:11

Yes, well, I wanted to leave Lady Cranburn then because I wanted to get more money.

Rosina Harrison9:17

So I applied different situation.

Rosina Harrison9:20

that was vacant with Lady Astor's daughter.

Rosina Harrison9:24

And the wages then were sixty pounds a year. Of course I thought I was a millionaire.

Rosina Harrison9:29

Anyway, I hadn't been long

Speaker 19:29

Anyway, I

Rosina Harrison9:31

With Miss Wissy.

Rosina Harrison9:33

We really had a trip to America.

Rosina Harrison9:36

When I came back Lady Aster's maid had left.

Rosina Harrison9:40

And she'd already had three in a year.

Rosina Harrison9:43

And the butler told me that

Rosina Harrison9:45

She was going to take me off her daughter for herself.

Rosina Harrison9:49

So I was prepared for a ledge when she tackled me.

Rosina Harrison9:53

She got me in the boudoir, and she looked at me. She says, You either look after me or you go.

Rosina Harrison9:58

So I got the ultimatum.

Presenter10:00

Now the Astor family, very rich indeed, and and Clifton, their home in Buckinghamshire, was a great social centre.

Presenter10:07

And that wasn't the only establishment they kept up.

Rosina Harrison10:10

No, they had four Saint James's Square in London.

Rosina Harrison10:13

Rest Harrow Sandwiche Kent.

Rosina Harrison10:16

Three Elliott Terrace the whole Plymouth Devon.

Rosina Harrison10:20

and they had a little well, it isn't a little farm, it's a big one in the island of Jorah.

Presenter10:24

How big a household staff was kept? At Clifton, for example.

Rosina Harrison10:27

Twenty six servants in the house, and Lady Astor could keep them all running, beside an accountant's office and a a secretary.

Presenter10:36

Well now with constant moving about between all those houses there must have been a tremendous amount of packing and unpacking.

Rosina Harrison10:43

Yes, there was,'cause you see, when we had weekends from London to Clivdon, I used to have to take nearly everything there was there.

Rosina Harrison10:50

Up to a point there was an awful lot, but if it was a big weekend, well, of course, everything went.

Rosina Harrison10:54

And I packed it up all on a Friday, and I unpacked it when we got there.

Presenter10:58

And things like table silver, what was that move?

Rosina Harrison10:58

Uh

Rosina Harrison11:01

Oh, yes, for the the pantry people had to see to all that. They had a big van come up and take it all down. The silver, the table ornaments and

Rosina Harrison11:09

Everything appertaining to the dining room. Of course it was all packed up again and brought back on a Monday morning if we were coming to London again.

Presenter11:16

As Lady Aster's personal maid, what were your duties? You looked after all her clothes.

Rosina Harrison11:21

Yes, I looked after all her clothes, and I had to look after her personal, see that she was all was dressed properly, and see that everything was out ready for her.

Presenter11:28

Lady Astor was a a very lively lady, and I should imagine, from what you say in your book, not the easiest lady to work for.

Rosina Harrison11:35

No, she wasn't. But uh once I got the understanding of it, I had a very hard time with her when I first went because, you see, I wasn't used to

Rosina Harrison11:42

To the way she spoke to me, I'd lived with aristocrats, and of course they never put you in the position of answering back, but of course, when I went to Lady Astora, of course, I had to answer back.

Presenter11:52

There were battles of wills, we put it that way.

Rosina Harrison11:55

Yes, it certainly was.

Presenter11:57

There was a lot of a big scale entertaining at Clifton, and indeed in London.

Rosina Harrison12:02

Yes, Lady Aster used to entertain anybody that hit the headlines of the newspapers she'd get them somehow or other down there.

Rosina Harrison12:10

She entertained politicians, film people.

Rosina Harrison12:15

Big weekend parties

Rosina Harrison12:18

There was garden parties at Clivedon, people from America.

Rosina Harrison12:21

People from from all over the world really.

Presenter12:24

Is

Rosina Harrison12:24

And in London the same.

Presenter12:26

Ha!

Rosina Harrison12:26

O B

Presenter12:26

were these functions. How many people were entertained at a time?

Rosina Harrison12:30

Oh, in London it was nothing to have fifty for dinner and

Rosina Harrison12:33

Down at Tibden just the same.

Presenter12:34

Yes. And for a reception? Thousand.

Presenter12:38

With all this formal entertaining, sometimes with royalty present, a great deal of protocol had to be gone into, order of precedence.

Rosina Harrison12:47

Oh, yes, that all that had to be gone into. And the the list of guests was always sent to the royal family as to who they were going to meet and and all the rest of it, you know.

Rosina Harrison12:57

But um

Rosina Harrison12:59

It all went off very well.

Presenter13:00

There was an equally rigid protocol on the other side of the green bay's door.

Rosina Harrison13:05

Yes.

Presenter13:05

You entertained other ladies' maids when they were brought to stay, I presume.

Rosina Harrison13:10

Yes, the the ladies used to bring their maids and valets and of course the

Rosina Harrison13:14

It was very nice to meet a a few strange people, you know, to hear a little bit of gossip if there was any, and there was the there was a black list of who to go to and who not to go to, you know, who paid you well and who didn't pay you well, naturally.

Rosina Harrison13:26

It was very nice.

Presenter13:28

Let's have record number four. What's that?

Rosina Harrison13:31

The next record is Joan Hammond singin'.

Rosina Harrison13:35

O my beloved father

Presenter13:36

And why do you choose this?

Rosina Harrison13:37

Well, I've adored that record ever since I heard it, and I don't think anybody sings it better than her.

Rosina Harrison13:44

For one thing, John Hammond came to Clifton

Rosina Harrison13:46

She used to go out golfing with her ladyship, and I was introduced to her, and I found her very nice.

Presenter14:52

Joan Hammond singing O My Beloved Father from Puccini's Giannischiki.

Presenter14:57

Now, Miss Harrison, you wanted to be a ladies' maid so that you could travel. You've certainly fulfilled that ambition, haven't you?

Rosina Harrison15:03

Yes, I have.

Presenter15:05

Now in ships and hotels you had to be near Lady Astor, so presumably you were given a first class ticket too.

Rosina Harrison15:11

Yes, certainly.

Rosina Harrison15:13

I wallowed in it.

Presenter15:15

And where else did you go? All over Europe?

Rosina Harrison15:17

I went to uh Sweden, to the royal palaces there. I went to Denmark. I've been to Germany before the war.

Rosina Harrison15:24

I've been to Turkey.

Rosina Harrison15:26

and I've travelled from Arizona right to Maine, near Canada.

Presenter15:29

How long were you with Lady Aster?

Rosina Harrison15:31

Thirty-five years.

Presenter15:33

Until she died.

Rosina Harrison15:34

Yes.

Presenter15:34

When was that?

Rosina Harrison15:35

On the second of may nineteen sixty four.

Presenter15:39

And when she died, you retired. Yes. Uh

Presenter15:42

But really and for only for a little while you had had it in mind to write a book about your experiences for a long time.

Rosina Harrison15:49

Yes, well, it began as early as the thirties will say.

Rosina Harrison15:53

When Ladyship and I used to be argin' and jaggling, and the children were listening outside the door, they used to say to me, Rose, why don't you write a book? But write it as you speak.

Speaker 416:01

Ha ha.

Speaker 116:01

Yeah.

Rosina Harrison16:03

Of course I thought I was mighty clever, and I did do that. I got the book and wrote it down, I kept cuttings, I got letters, and I started to write this book.

Rosina Harrison16:13

I got the manuscript altogether.

Rosina Harrison16:17

And away I went with it. But looking through it I thought, well, this isn't right. It isn't compiled enough for the public to read. I don't know what they're going to think about this.

Presenter16:25

So you went and got a little expert help.

Rosina Harrison16:27

Yes.

Rosina Harrison16:29

When I went to mister Crutchley I was introduced to him.

Rosina Harrison16:31

I put my cards on the table, meant every word I said.

Rosina Harrison16:35

No sex in the book, no scandal in the book, and I have no money.

Presenter16:40

Well, that was a fair proposition. So he helped you with the book.

Rosina Harrison16:43

Yes.

Presenter16:43

It's called Rose. It came out last year. It's been a great success, serialized in the Sunday Times. And have you started the second volume?

Rosina Harrison16:51

Yes, we have.

Presenter16:52

Good. Record number five, what's that?

Rosina Harrison16:56

The bigger number fires the Blue Danube.

Rosina Harrison16:58

And I'd like that because it's because of my traveling. I went to Vienna.

Rosina Harrison17:05

before the war and after the war. And I went to Budapest before the war, and those are the two places I saw the Danube.

Rosina Harrison17:14

My ambitions would realize then.

Presenter18:15

The Blue Danube conducted by Leopold Stokovsky. Let's go straight on to your sixth record. What's that?

Rosina Harrison18:21

Chu Jin Chao

Rosina Harrison18:23

And I've chosen that because I went to see it.

Rosina Harrison18:26

Four or five times in London. The original production? Yes, the original production and the ones after.

Rosina Harrison18:33

And I loved the music there, and it was a spectac oh, such a spectacular show.

Rosina Harrison18:39

and I adored the music.

Presenter19:09

Just two of the tunes from Chu Chin Chou, played by the Gaemont British Orchestra conducted by Louis Levy.

Presenter19:16

Miss Harrison, as a country girl growing up in very straitened circumstances, as the expression used to be, did you ever get mixed up in anything as disgraceful as poaching?

Rosina Harrison19:27

Well, I was an accessory after the fact, certainly, because I used to help my father make those little bullets.

Rosina Harrison19:33

And

Rosina Harrison19:34

He was rather clever with the catapult.

Presenter19:37

Splendid now this is the very best kind of training for a desert island.

Rosina Harrison19:40

Push.

Presenter19:40

And you're bound to have a little elastic about you somewhere that would be useful for the catapult.

Rosina Harrison19:45

Yes, but I don't think I could aim straight.

Presenter19:47

Evidently fishing

Rosina Harrison19:48

Yeah.

Presenter19:48

Yeah.

Rosina Harrison19:48

No, never.

Rosina Harrison19:50

Oh yes, I have. Yes, well I I've got to stop and think what I've been doing. I did a little fishing once when a ladeship took me to Jura and where I was very bored.

Rosina Harrison19:59

And I know she sent uh Arthur the Valet and I out to fish. We caught seventy five mackerel.

Rosina Harrison20:04

And I caught a great big Saith, I think the name of the fish was, and I took this fish in through a lad to his Lordship and her ladyship in the drawing room.

Rosina Harrison20:11

And I was so proud of it I thought at least we should get a little bit of it. Anyway, Arthur and I never saw the head nor the tail.

Presenter20:18

Oh, dear. Well, nevertheless, anything you catch on the desert island you can keep. It's all yours.

Presenter20:24

And you sound very well qualified to be a castaway. Let's have record number seven.

Rosina Harrison20:29

I've chosen Ema Sermak.

Rosina Harrison20:31

Because I think she's got a bird like voice.

Rosina Harrison20:35

And I heard it the record when I went to lunch with our chef once. He played some records in his flat in Worthing. My family was with me.

Rosina Harrison20:45

And I've never forgot it. I think to have a voice like that is a gift from the gods.

Presenter21:20

Ima Sumak singing Virgin of the Sun God

Presenter21:24

And now we come to your last tray called what's that?

Rosina Harrison21:27

My last record is The Rustle of Spring.

Rosina Harrison21:30

Makes you think of all the flowers growing up and everything. And also I like the piano. I like to hear

Rosina Harrison21:36

A good pianist.

Presenter22:37

John Ogden playing Russell of Spring. If you could take just one of those eight records you've played us, which would it be?

Rosina Harrison22:44

Bless this house because I was so fond of my home and I still am.

Presenter22:48

You are allowed to take one luxury to your island. What are you going to take?

Rosina Harrison22:52

I think I would like to take a picture by Nikolski, and it's called Summer Arrangements, and it's a l a lovely lot of roses, and as I have a rose garden

Rosina Harrison23:02

And I always look after them and prove them and do everything myself. I think it's a very nice picture to be able to look at.

Presenter23:08

A picture of roses for rose

Rosina Harrison23:09

Yes.

Presenter23:10

and one book apart from the Bible, Shakespeare, and big encyclopedias.

Rosina Harrison23:14

I would like to take the volumes of uh of uh Charles Dickens, because I've never had the time to read. Really, I know what a lady once said to me, she says,

Rosina Harrison23:23

All you want's the Bible, and of course she gave me a Bible.

Rosina Harrison23:27

But I would take that with me because I like reading and I would have plenty of time to do it.

Presenter23:32

Right, we we can't give you all the works of Dickens. We'll bind two or three of the novels together. Which one shall we start with?

Rosina Harrison23:38

Polly a twist.

Presenter23:39

Right.

Presenter23:40

And thank you, Rosina Harrison, Rose, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc.

Rosina Harrison23:45

Thank you very much, mister Plumley. I thank you very much for having me, and I have enjoyed every minute of it.

Presenter23:51

Good. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 123:59

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/radio four.