Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Desert Island Discs
Presented by Roy Plomley
Entertainer who studied music and sociology and began his theatre career after student productions.
Eight records
The eight records for this collection haven’t been catalogued yet.
The keepsakes
No book or luxury recorded for this episode.
In conversation
Presenter asks
Would you say that your ability to entertain manifested itself very early in your life?
It did, about the age of five, I think, I remember, then … dressing up in hats and things and, um … imitating people all the time.
Presenter asks
How did the theatre come into it [after you did research at LSE]?
I think I was sidetracked into it by, um, student concerts and shows which I did and I started writing them, directing them. Became a very big fish in that small sea as a performer and I began to want to test it out in the big world, see if I really was as good as I appeared to be as a student.
Presenter asks
Who gave you your opportunity [in the theatre]?
Well it was Peter Myers and Ronnie Kesk, the writers, came in to see one of our reviews and offered me part in the first review at the New Lindsay, Intimacy at Eight.
The recording
Timestamps play the recording from that turn
Presenter
This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.
Presenter
Ron, would you say that your ability to entertain manifested itself very early in your life?
Ron Moody
It did, about the age of five, I think, I remember, then.
Ron Moody
dressing up in hats and things and, um
Ron Moody
Imitating people all the time. Yes. And you've told us that you studied music.
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
Yes.
Presenter
When
Ron Moody
Yeah.
Presenter
Who lifted up?
Ron Moody
School I went into the REO.
Presenter
Uh
Ron Moody
I started off as air crew, then I remastered to radar.
Ron Moody
And um then I was a teacher in the EVT scheme. I was teaching, you know, servicemen
Ron Moody
Current affairs, accounting, before they went back into Civvy Street.
Presenter
Twelve.
Ron Moody
Uh
Presenter
Uh Then he went to the London School of Economics with a view to
Ron Moody
What?
Ron Moody
Well, while I was teaching in in the Air Force I began to read, um
Ron Moody
More than I'd read before, and Shaw was one of the
Ron Moody
Um the great influences
Ron Moody
I I was so astounded by this man's incredible um power of paradox, how he could stand so high above society and see so many things that um so many relationships.
Ron Moody
that um shocked people.
Ron Moody
I wanted to understand how how he could have done this and I went to LSE to do sociology.
Presenter
Then you stayed on to do some research.
Ron Moody
Yes, yeah.
Presenter
The Psychosociological Aspects of Industrial Morale. That was the short title, yeah. How did the theatre come into it?
Presenter
Uh
Ron Moody
I think I was sidetracked into it by, um
Ron Moody
student concerts and shows which I
Ron Moody
did and I started writing them, directing them. Became a very big fish in that small sea as a performer and um
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
I began to want to s test it out in the in the big world, see if I really was as good as I was as as I appeared to be as a student. Who gave you your opportunity?
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
Well it was Peter Myers and Ronnie Kesk, the writers, came in to see one of our reviews and um
Ron Moody
Offered me part in the first review at the New Lindsay, Intimacy at Eight.
Presenter
Oh yes. New Lindsay, it's now a car park or some such municipal improvement. Lost. Yes. Well you didn't make a fortune there at New Lindsay. Six pounds a week A. Six pounds a week. I thought that was a fortune.
Ron Moody
After five years as a student. And did that reveal transfer? It transferred, but not with me. Yes.
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
I just went to the windmill and um
Presenter
Bad luck
Ron Moody
Went to Germany.
Ron Moody
Cabaret.
Presenter
Yes.
Ron Moody
Um, Intimacy Late Thirty was the next one. That transferred as um as Intimacy Late Thirty to the Criterion. That was my first West End show.
Presenter
Is
Ron Moody
And for me
Presenter
only, I remember.
Ron Moody
That's right. Yeah, there's a string.
Presenter
For adults only?
Presenter
You mentioned Cabaret, Ron. That's always played a considerable part in your career.
Ron Moody
I was um quite naive about the profession and um went straight into the deep end, into the toughest part of it. Most actors or singers are terrified of cabra. Yeah, they like the fourth war. They like to be cut off from the audience and don't like to be aware of them.
Presenter
Moses
Presenter
They lied.
Ron Moody
Whereas I naturally went straight to the audience and I s I always do and I still have. So this I had this feeling of contact with people.
Presenter
Uh
Ron Moody
I don't like to pretend they're not there.
Presenter
You have always written your own material.
Ron Moody
Yes, yeah.
Presenter
What was the first musical play you were in?
Presenter
Condide. Yes. 1959. Yes, Condide didn't run very long. It was a rather sad disappointment.
Ron Moody
Let's head.
Presenter
Seven weeks, I think. And then another one that was a your great big opportunity.
Ron Moody
Yeah.
Presenter
Oliver. Yes. Ron, as a Jew, did it worry you to play Fagin, who is regarded as a classic anti-Semitic character?
Ron Moody
It did worry me at first. I accepted it because I'd always wanted to do Fagin. I just had a feeling that there was something really good in it. But, um, I saw the old, um
Ron Moody
film of Oliver Twist with Alec Guinness, which worried me a lot because I thought that was a pretty fierce stereotype with a six-inch built-on plastic nose.
Ron Moody
And then I read the book, which I realized I hadn't read. I always thought I'd read it.
Ron Moody
Goes on and on. But then Fagin in the book is a monster. He's a corruptor of children. There's no saving grace at all.
Ron Moody
He describes him as a merry old Jew, but there's nothing merry about Fagin in the book, and I just began to wonder if I'd done the wrong thing. But I r didn't relax on it until I got a good notice in the Jewish Chronicle when they said this is something you should take your grandchildren to see, which is a
Presenter
When I say that
Ron Moody
The highest praise you can get from the Jewish Chronicle.
Ron Moody
Yeah.
Presenter
You didn't stay in Oliver for the whole of that long London run? No, one year. Nor did you accept the offer to play it in New York.
Ron Moody
Now, what?
Ron Moody
It seemed I'd reached a point as a performer which was um pretty good, satisfactory, and I wanted then to diverse if I switch off back to the main theme which is writing.
Ron Moody
And um writing musicals is
Presenter
Main thing for you, isn't it?
Ron Moody
Is yeah.
Presenter
How many musicals have you written?
Presenter
Well, I'd say about six or seven. Mm-hmm.
Presenter
The one that I think we know about most is is the one that you wrote about Grimaldi, the the clown.
Presenter
Called Joey Joey.
Ron Moody
Yes.
Presenter
And that you worked on for years.
Ron Moody
Yeah.
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
I worked on it because I was kept waiting for years and, um
Ron Moody
I was led to work on it to keep changing the um the versions of it, but in fact looking back now with a lot more experience and knowledge, I realize that the second version
Ron Moody
Which I did before I was um
Ron Moody
Educated.
Ron Moody
Was better than any of the others and if we'd done that one we might have been more successful but then that's what it's all about, isn't it? And there's been another musical since.
Ron Moody
This that was at um Coventry. What was that called? Saturnalia. That hasn't come into London.
Ron Moody
No, I think it's n no longer
Ron Moody
Um
Ron Moody
It doesn't relate to the Times. It was a topical musical. Mm. It was an attack on drugs and the drug psyche and the permissive society, which is now old hat, isn't it? So there's no point I just wrote I wrote it when it was topical and the when it was on a year later it was too late.
Presenter
Yes. But you enjoyed doing it. You feel it was worth it.
Ron Moody
Well I directed that one. I think that was the happiest time I've ever spent in the theatre.
Presenter
I think
Ron Moody
I thought it was for this moment that I was born. I was directing something which I'd written, doing it the way I almost the way I wanted it.
Ron Moody
Very happy time.
Presenter
And the fact that you made virtually no money out of it isn't important. That to you was a very happy
Ron Moody
Yeah, it was a very ha
Ron Moody
I've never worked for money actually. I mean I do like to get a fair fee for what I'm doing, but I've always put the job first and let the money take care of itself.
Presenter
Yeah.
Presenter
You said you've never really worked with money as the object. You have in fact given up a lot of big opportunities in the United States in the theatre.
Ron Moody
Yes, I have. I I don't necessarily think that was the right thing to do. I just did it with no thought. There was no real conflict there.
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
But
Presenter
Films have taken you around the world quite a bit. Yeah.
Ron Moody
Uh
Presenter
There was one you made some years ago for the great Merle Brooks, which we've only just seen.
Ron Moody
Yeah.
Presenter
In Yugoslav.
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
Oh, what else?
Presenter
Yeah.
Ron Moody
In the way of films? Well, uh one which I really enjoyed doing was in Canada in'73. That's not been seen either. That was Dog Pound Shuffle.
Ron Moody
where another childhood ambition was fulfilled, to tap dance.'Cause when I was a kid I used to get a bit of plywood in the kitchen and bash it, you know, and make terrible noisy clicks. Always wanted to be Fred Astaire. And there suddenly I there I was doing three tap routines with Jack Bego, who's a great friend of Gene Kelly, and all all the the big stuff, you know.
Presenter
And it was
Ron Moody
And it wasn't bad. It was very difficult, because I'm not a dancer, and I don't move well. I move, but not um not in that style.
Ron Moody
And he managed to sort of iron out some of the quirks and it's not not bad. Very satisfied with that.
Presenter
Seeing that. Uh what other highlights recently? You've been trying out a one-man show. Move Along Sideways.
Presenter
Well, it's pretty well worked in now. Yes, you've been running it round about. When's it going to London?
Ron Moody
Kids who
Ron Moody
We hope early in the new year. Uh
Presenter
That's good. Yeah.
Ron Moody
after Peter Penn, which I'm doing at Christmas.
Presenter
Yes, you're playing Captain Hook again this year. You you played him several times.
Ron Moody
There we go.
Ron Moody
Third time this is.
Presenter asks
As a Jew, did it worry you to play Fagin, who is regarded as a classic anti-Semitic character?
It did worry me at first. I accepted it because I'd always wanted to do Fagin. I just had a feeling that there was something really good in it. But I saw the old film of Oliver Twist with Alec Guinness, which worried me a lot because I thought that was a pretty fierce stereotype with a six-inch built-on plastic nose. And then I read the book, which I realized I hadn't read. Fagin in the book is a monster. He's a corruptor of children. There's no saving grace at all. He describes him as a merry old Jew, but there's nothing merry about Fagin in the book, and I just began to wonder if I'd done the wrong thing. I didn't relax on it until I got a good notice in the Jewish Chronicle when they said this is something you should take your grandchildren to see, which is the highest praise you can get from the Jewish Chronicle.
Presenter asks
You didn't stay in Oliver for the whole of that long London run, nor did you accept the offer to play it in New York. Why?
It seemed I'd reached a point as a performer which was pretty good, satisfactory, and I wanted then to diversify, switch off back to the main theme which is writing. And writing musicals is … the main thing.
Presenter asks
You said you've never really worked with money as the object. You have in fact given up a lot of big opportunities in the United States in the theatre. Was that a conscious choice?
Yes, I have. I don't necessarily think that was the right thing to do. I just did it with no thought. There was no real conflict there.
“I was so astounded by this man's incredible power of paradox, how he could stand so high above society and see so many things that so many relationships … that shocked people.”
“Most actors or singers are terrified of cabaret. They like the fourth wall. They like to be cut off from the audience … Whereas I naturally went straight to the audience and I still do. I have this feeling of contact with people. I don't like to pretend they're not there.”
“I realize that the second version [of 'Joey Joey'] which I did before I was educated was better than any of the others and if we'd done that one we might have been more successful but then that's what it's all about, isn't it?”
“I thought it was for this moment that I was born. I was directing something which I'd written, doing it the way I almost the way I wanted it. Very happy time.”
“I've never worked for money actually. I mean I do like to get a fair fee for what I'm doing, but I've always put the job first and let the money take care of itself.”
“Always wanted to be Fred Astaire. And there suddenly I was doing three tap routines with Jack Bego, who's a great friend of Gene Kelly … and he managed to sort of iron out some of the quirks and it's not bad. Very satisfied with that.”