Tuning in…
Tuning in…
Desert Island Discs
Presented by Roy Plomley
A portrait painter who painted Sir Winston Churchill, Laurence Olivier, and Princess Anne in official portraits.
Eight records
The eight records for this collection haven’t been catalogued yet.
The keepsakes
No book or luxury recorded for this episode.
In conversation
Presenter asks
What inspired your decision to become a painter? Did it start at school?
No, really, it was um it's connected really with my older brother, who was an artist and used to do a lot of work for Punch. It was really he who got me doing it. I think it must be attributed to him, because I was no good at school, left school uh as early as I could. Yes. And and my only possible gift was drawing, so I I drifted into that.
Presenter asks
Obviously it takes a long time for a portrait painter to build up his reputation and his clientele. How did you keep yourself in those early days?
I was uh doing all sorts of odd jobs. I was doing a little bit of scene painting, uh apple picking, um a little bit of teaching. It was it was a very difficult one, was it only too grateful if uh if somebody's uh aunt asked you whether they'd paint their portrait for for five pounds or something like that, it it was really uh scratching along that way.
Presenter asks
What's your favorite Churchill story?
Oh, um yes, one particular story stands out in my mind when I had um been invited to Chartwell to have lunch with with him and uh Mary Soames was there. At the time, his daughter, yes. And um uh and sadly Lady Churchill was in hospital at that time, but however, there were we sitting round the dining-room table before the the the big sitting, and Mary Soames uh brought up a story about a friend of hers who was writing about the Loch Ness Monster. And of course Winston didn't uh didn't think too much of this. And uh she was quite convinced there was something there, and she'd seen photographs and so on of them. And I came back with the story of how I'd recently uh read a book about flying saucers, an American book. People had seen these things on radar screens and they'd sign affidavits to say they'd seen them and so on and so on. And I was myself very convinced that there was probably something there. And of course, at which moment Winston Churchill comes in and says, I don't believe in these things. I was much more impressed when I looked through the world's most powerful telescope and see there was a Milky Way beyond our Milky Way. And so I said in reply, I said, well, you speak like that, sir, but surely the the more telescopes we make and the more worlds we discover through them, it's becoming a bit of a presumption to take the attitude that we're the only world with life on it. And he said, yes, I give you that one, I give you that one, but I think we should treat the other planets with a contemporary.
The recording
Timestamps play the recording from that turn
Presenter
This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.
Presenter
What inspired your decision to become a painter? Did it start at school?
Bernard Hailstone
Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
No, really, it was um it's connected really with my older brother, who was an artist and used to do a lot of work for Punch. It was really he who got me doing it. I think it must be attributed to him, because I was no good at school, left school uh as early as I could. Yes. And and my only possible gift was drawing, so I I drifted into that. You moved into an art school.
Presenter
Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, yes. Um first of all, I I was uh apprenticed to a commercial art studio and was the kind of messenger boy making tea, etcetera, but uh father very very happily uh gave me a chance when I asked for it uh to to go to uh an art school for about a year.
Presenter
Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
So I sprung from there.
Presenter
Obviously it takes a long time for a portrait painter to build up his reputation and his clientele. How did you keep yourself in in those early days?
Presenter
Oh, it was
Bernard Hailstone
I was uh doing all sorts of odd jobs. I was doing a little bit of scene painting, uh apple picking, um a little bit of teaching. It was it was a very difficult one, was it only too grateful if uh if somebody's uh aunt asked you whether they'd paint their portrait for for five pounds or something like that, it it was really uh scratching along that way.
Presenter
Delegation.
Presenter
And quite soon after you had got started the war began.
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, yes, at the moment the rumbles of war were coming along, myself and two other artists, and we lived in a very big house in Blackheath there. We realised we had to do something and we heard that if we would join the fire brigade we'd have 48 hours on duty and 24 off, which we suspected would be a marvellous opportunity of keeping our hands in. And you became an official war artist? Yes, that came a little bit later because in the fire brigade itself a number of painters found themselves and we exhibited paintings in fact in the Royal Academy, which was quite empty for the war then anyway. And one of these paintings happened to be noticed and fought for the war artists' collection by Kenneth Clarke who really set me out to paint some portraits of firemen who'd won decorations and so on. So that's really how I started.
Presenter
Yes. And then you went to sea with the merchant navy?
Presenter
Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
Um yes, yes, we I I went round the Mediterranean and uh to Alexandria, um, Algiers and did a number of pictures, which weren't weren't portraits, as a matter of fact then, that I I I did that.
Bernard Hailstone
uh before coming back before my next assignment. Which was to the Far East. Which was to the Far East in painting uh Lord Mountbatten and his chiefs of staff, uh which was very enjoyable. I was given a studio.
Bernard Hailstone
At the top of the only skyscraper in Singapore, which was part of Lord Mountbatten's headquarters in Southeast Asia Command. And I was put in the only place that was about available as a kind of a studio in Lord Mountbatten's kitchen. And I thought most of my admirals and generals were painted sitting on the kitchen sink.
Presenter
Well now after the war, after your travels and after having painted all those war leaders out to the in the Far East, you came back to London. Was life easier than it had been before the war? Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, it was. In some mysterious way, people seemed to sort of ask me whether I would paint their portraits and so on. So life was easier. But I did, in fact, at that time also was asked to teach at one of the London art schools, which I did. And it is a very inspiring thing to do, to to be able to go back and and examine oneself while one's doing this. So you're giving and receiving at the same time, which is always a nice feeling.
Presenter
One of your sitters was Sir Winston Churchill.
Presenter
What's your favorite Churchill story?
Bernard Hailstone
Oh, um yes, one particular story stands out in my mind when I had um been invited to Chartwell to have lunch with with him and uh
Bernard Hailstone
Mary Soames was there.
Bernard Hailstone
At the time, his daughter, yes. And um uh and sadly Lady Churchill was in hospital at that time, but however, there were we sitting round the dining-room table before the the the big sitting, and Mary Soames uh brought up a story about a friend of hers who was writing about the Loch Ness Monster.
Bernard Hailstone
And of course Winston didn't uh didn't think too much of this. And uh she was quite convinced there was something there, and she'd seen photographs and so on of them. And I came back with the story of how I'd recently uh read a book about flying saucers, an American book.
Bernard Hailstone
People had seen these things on radar screens and they'd sign affidavits to say they'd seen them and so on and so on. And I was myself very convinced that there was probably something there. And of course, at which moment Winston Churchill comes in and says, I don't believe in these things. I was much more impressed when I looked through the world's most powerful telescope and see there was a Milky Way beyond our Milky Way. And so I said in reply, I said, well, you speak like that, sir, but surely the the more telescopes we make and the more worlds we discover through them, it's becoming a bit of a presumption to take the attitude that we're the only world with life on it. And he said, yes, I give you that one, I give you that one, but I think we should treat the other planets with a contemporary.
Presenter
Raiders are.
Presenter
In recent years you've painted a number of distinguished stage people, Laurence Olivier, for example.
Presenter
A very casual, rather untidy picture, with his tie pulled down, as if at the end of a long rehearsal.
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, that's quite right. It's hanging in the Garrick Club at the moment. The thing about actors is that they always seem to know how to relax and how to pose. They seem to have it instinctively, of course they would. And just lately you've been painting Princess Anne? Yes, this was for the 14th, 20th King's Hussars, and it was the first official portrait that she'd sat for, so it was all rather exciting. I'm not quite certain whether she was as frightened with sitting as I was painting her at that moment. Of course there's a strange enigma about royalty which one can't quite come to terms with. However, my friends persuaded me that it had come out fairly well, so basically I very much enjoyed it and it was a great honour to be asked really.
Presenter
Uh
Bernard Hailstone
Uh
Presenter
How do you start on a portrait? Someone you don't know comes into your studio.
Presenter
First of all, I suppose you'll have to get to know him before you can start work.
Bernard Hailstone
It's not um absolutely necessary, but I do like to have um lunch or some time with a person.
Bernard Hailstone
I'm painting because um
Bernard Hailstone
In a way, you see, it's uh one has to sort of to a certain extent kind of caricature them, taking this angel thing. A little time it does help. I sometimes I have started on the spur of the moment straight away and realized afterwards that there was parts of their face that uh should have been brought out from my point of view.
Presenter
You start with a few quick sketches, do you, before you get down to the next one?
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, yes, usually in charcoal on the canvas or one or two canvases to get out an idea and then slide into it when you feel a little bit more confident about it, that you've got something of the spirit of the person there.
Presenter
I know your studio is in Chelsea. I I was intrigued to see that you live in a castle in Kent.
Presenter
Um yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
Yes, this is this is true. It's called the castle, really. It's a folly. It might be described as one of the top ten follies in England, actually. It's a shell, it always has been, and I describe it as a factory chimney, the same height as Nelson's Column, which indeed it is, 180 feet. And I describe it as a factory chimney. It's been cleverly disguised as a Gothic cathedral. But it's a fantastic building. Yes.
Presenter
Must be really quite something to have a castle to look after. Yes.
Presenter
Now what about travels since the war? One of the great advantages of being a painter is that you can paint anywhere.
Presenter
Uh this is true.
Bernard Hailstone
Oh, My last trip order was to America. I was seeing a an art dealer in New York and um
Bernard Hailstone
A call came through asking me whether I would paint Paul Millen, whose father started the National Gallery in Washington and he is followed his father's footsteps as director or president of the National Gallery. So I found myself up there and while I was painting him I couldn't help but be amazed in the room that I was painting him in. There were at least a million pounds worth of paintings there. There was a Suzanne and a Monet and a Menet and all around the place. And I had to make a comment to him. I said, I've got pretty severe competition here, haven't I? He was rather amused at. His private collection.
Presenter
Yeah.
Presenter
Uh his private collection. Yeah.
Bernard Hailstone
Yeah.
Presenter
Yeah.
Presenter asks
How do you start on a portrait? Someone you don't know comes into your studio. First of all, I suppose you'll have to get to know him before you can start work.
It's not um absolutely necessary, but I do like to have um lunch or some time with a person. I'm painting because um In a way, you see, it's uh one has to sort of to a certain extent kind of caricature them, taking this angel thing. A little time it does help. I sometimes I have started on the spur of the moment straight away and realized afterwards that there was parts of their face that uh should have been brought out from my point of view.
Presenter asks
You start with a few quick sketches, do you, before you get down to the next one?
Yes, yes, usually in charcoal on the canvas or one or two canvases to get out an idea and then slide into it when you feel a little bit more confident about it, that you've got something of the spirit of the person there.
“I was uh doing all sorts of odd jobs. I was doing a little bit of scene painting, uh apple picking, um a little bit of teaching. It was it was a very difficult one, was it only too grateful if uh if somebody's uh aunt asked you whether they'd paint their portrait for for five pounds or something like that, it it was really uh scratching along that way.”
“I was myself very convinced that there was probably something there. And of course, at which moment Winston Churchill comes in and says, I don't believe in these things. I was much more impressed when I looked through the world's most powerful telescope and see there was a Milky Way beyond our Milky Way. And so I said in reply, I said, well, you speak like that, sir, but surely the the more telescopes we make and the more worlds we discover through them, it's becoming a bit of a presumption to take the attitude that we're the only world with life on it.”
“This was for the 14th, 20th King's Hussars, and it was the first official portrait that she'd sat for, so it was all rather exciting. I'm not quite certain whether she was as frightened with sitting as I was painting her at that moment. Of course there's a strange enigma about royalty which one can't quite come to terms with.”
“Yeah, this is this is true. It's called the castle, really. It's a folly. It might be described as one of the top ten follies in England, actually. It's a shell, it always has been, and I describe it as a factory chimney, the same height as Nelson's Column, which indeed it is, 180 feet. And I describe it as a factory chimney. It's been cleverly disguised as a Gothic cathedral. But it's a fantastic building.”