Brian Johnston

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy four, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:30

This week, our castaway is the broadcaster, Brian Johnston. Brian, you've been about the world quite a lot, mostly at the BBC's expense. Where would you like this island to be? I think somewhere off the coast of Australia, possibly near Sydney somewhere, as near as I'm allowed to go, so that I might hear the roar of the crowd on the hill when there's a test match there. Not as close as that. Oh, dear. What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Presenter0:53

Um do you know, I I don't think I can name anything. I'm rather fond of civilization, bad as people say it is. I can't think of anything. Are you a musical person? Uh not very. I I like sort of straight music like uh sort of Ivanovello stuff, you know, and I do play the piano. I play underneath the arches. Really? That's all. Very well, too. What key?

Speaker 11:08

Yeah.

Presenter1:10

I think it's four flats.

Presenter1:12

Are the four flats on the piano? Yeah, thanks so much. Do you play discs a lot? Yes, I sit and listen sometimes as background, you know. How did you set about choosing your eighters as an ostalgic choice or great performances or what? I've tried to sort of match it up a bit with my life, you know, and also to bring in people whom I've particularly liked, who I've met in my life, who also performed. So I've combined the two.

Brian Johnston1:15

Yeah.

Presenter1:33

What's the first one? Can I go back to my school days at Eton when I was a member of the Eton College Musical Society and they came along and recorded us all singing the Eton boating song? You know, We All Swing Together. I'd love to hear that.

Presenter2:24

The Eaton College Musical Society and Brian John.

Presenter2:28

What's your second disc?

Presenter2:29

Well, in the 30s I used to play non-stop either Carol Gibbons, Charlie Coons or Hutch, Leslie A. Hutchinson. I'd love something by Hutch and I think if I could I love All the Things You Are, which incident is my wife Pauline's favourite song, so let's combine the two if we may. And you met Pauline at the BBC, didn't you? Yes, she was in the photographic department and I rang her one day and proposed within a week. It wasn't bad going. Not bad going at all. Well it's a splendid idea to play her favourite tune.

Brian Johnston3:02

Yeah.

Brian Johnston3:11

The breathless hush of evening

Brian Johnston3:15

That trembles on the brink of a loveless park.

Presenter3:20

Harch singing All the Things You Are

Presenter3:23

Now after Eton you went up to New College, Oxford, what did you read? I read uh history and a bit of PG Woodhouse, mostly the Woodhouse. History with a view to what? Nothing, I'm ashamed to say, Do you know? I just didn't know what I was going to do. And in the end, in fact, I ended up going into the family business, which was selling coffee. Where? In London? Well, we had an office in London, and in fact, we exported it from Brazil, you know, and I had to go there, in fact, and try and learn about it, but I didn't like it much. Commerce didn't interest you. What did?

Presenter3:49

At that time, cricket, of course, always, and the theatre, and especially music hall. Every week I used to go either to Hoban Empire, Blunderballadi and I mad on the music hall. Did you envisage at that time becoming an actor or director? Yeah, well, you know, I've always been a sort of sucker for the stage. The only part I've ever played, in fact, was the silly ass in the ghost train. But yes, I went to a fortune teller who said, yes, you ought to be an actor. You're going to be well known one day. And she made me sign a special book and said, you'll be not famous, but well known. But I hadn't got the guts to give up my job and go on the stage, I'm afraid. Well, now the war was coming along, and before it started, you volunteered for the Grenadier Guards. Yes, we thought we'd better get into the top regiment if we were going to have to fight, you know. Yes, and you became technical adjutant in a tank battalion.

Presenter4:30

You served in the invasion of 1944 and the crossing of the Rhine and

Presenter4:34

Collecting an M C.

Presenter4:36

When things quieted down, you did some army shows. Yes, we did a lot, um, in our battalion and then in the Guards Armour Division, uh we did a big review called The Eyes Have It. And again, I got bitten by this bug. I must perform, you know, and I used to go on. I was the sort of compound, crack jicks and stuff. And when you put aside your uniform, what happened?

Presenter4:55

Well, I've been very lucky because in the war, when we were in a wood in Thetford before going across to France, a couple came to have supper with us one day, and they were Stuart Macpherson and Winter Vaughan Thomas. They'd come to learn to be war correspondence with a neighbouring battalion, and I happened to meet them there and like them, and I happened to meet them again after the war. I was so lucky. And Stuart said, oh, we're a bit short of people at the BBC, why not do a test.

Presenter5:17

And I did attest, I went and asked people about what they thought of the butter ration in Oxford Street, I remember, and if you ask silly questions, you get silly answers. But they did say you can keep going. At any rate, they didn't think it was very good, but they said at least you didn't sort of dry up.

Speaker 15:23

Uh

Brian Johnston5:23

Okay.

Presenter5:28

Mm-hmm. So N you came to the BBC? Yes, for three months. I said, I'll come for three months.

Presenter5:32

At that point, I think we'll break off for record number three. What's that to be? Can I have my wall song, which was We'll Gather Lilacs? I heard Ivanovello played an orchard once in Normandy when we were there, and I think it's a marvellous one. I'd like it sung, if possible, by a man and a woman. I think it was thrown away in the play of a chance dream. What about Vanessa Lee and Bruce Trent? Suit me fine.

Brian Johnston5:52

We'll gather lilacs in the spring again

Brian Johnston6:01

And walk together down an English land.

Brian Johnston6:14

We love it.

Brian Johnston6:20

Yeah.

Presenter6:25

Ivan the Bellas, we'll gather lilacs, Vanessa Lee and Bruce Trent. So you joined the BBC, Brian. You were an outside broadcast? Yes, I joined them rarely as a sort of dog's body, you know, I did anything. Cricket didn't come along until late. In fact, my very first broadcast, if you'd like to know, came from the Ladies' Laboratory in St. James's Park, because they were blowing up the bomb there and they drained the lake and I was sent down with Lobby, who was my boss then, SJ Lavinia, and they described the blowing up of the bomb. And I was going to do it from a bridge and policeman said, oh, you must be too dangerous. You must go inside there. And standing up in the seat and looking through the slotted windows, I was able to do the commentary. I always say I came out looking a little bit flushed. And I wasn't very popular at the end of the broadcast. I said, that's the end of this one. Next week we'll bring you bigger and better bombs. And that was thought for being a little bit exaggerating, you know. Very good, Signor.

Speaker 17:10

Good cycle.

Presenter7:11

And you used to do the theatre relay, something that doesn't happen now. Yes, we went to th oh, hundreds of theatres and did that. Those were great fun to do, and of course one met all the nice people in the theatre, that was a great thing.

Brian Johnston7:20

Mm-hmm.

Presenter7:21

I was just too lucky for words. And there was an adventurous and and hazardous series you've did for years. Let's go somewhere. Yes, uh I I did a hundred and fifty of those. They were live every Saturday night. So every Saturday night was the first night. Some were complete flops, some Some were funny, some weren't too bad, you know. You were sawn in half by an illusionist. Yes, that was rather frightening, funnily enough, because you suddenly felt the blade come through the other side of you. I mustn't give away how it's done, but yes, I was sawn in half. That you kept talking? Yeah, I kept talking while the sore was going through me. And you stayed a night in the Chamber of Horrors? Yes, I stayed up to midnight. I wasn't allowed to go on after that, but in town tonight I did it. I was there for about 20 minutes before they came over to me. It was really rather frightening because all the figures are made of wax and they sway from time to time because underneath goes the Bakerloo line going. And it was rather frightening. I was totally glad to get out of that. I haven't been there since. There was a splendid idea. You shot yourself in a pillar box.

Presenter8:16

This is when we at Christmas time they want us to say how the postage should go on Christmas cards and I was in there and I described the letters that came dropping through and I finished the broadcast. I heard a patterning of feet outside and someone was coming up the box. I put my hand out and took the letter from the person in my hand coming through and I heard a scream from outside and this woman had nearly fainted. You know, you would if you saw a hand coming out of the box. That was what the sensation was. There was another occasion on which you stopped the traffic in Piccadilly. Yes, this was merely to see whether the agony columns worked. You know, meet me under the clock of Victorian. We put in a thing on Friday night, well set up young gentleman, which was me, invites young ladies seeking adventure, meeting on the steps of the Criterion Restaurant, Noah Regent Street, Saturday 715. And we went down there, expecting nobody, and the whole street was jammed. There were police with arms locked, holding the crowd back, and of course the thing was complete and utter chaos.

Speaker 18:41

Yeah.

Presenter9:03

And the next day we got leader headlines in all the papers, B B C, Stampede, Bigotilly, Stupid Stunt and And you never found your girl. And there were a lot of girls there, but uh some weren't so good looking. Ceremonial occasions, of course, dozens of them. Royal weddings.

Brian Johnston9:09

Yeah.

Presenter9:17

Yes, funerals as well. They're rarely my cup of tea because I'm perhaps a more light broadcaster. And I thought when I was doing one of the funerals, I better make absolutely sure to get things right. This is King George the VI funeral. I wrote out my opening thing saying, here comes the procession now led by five Metropolitan Police and mounted on white horses. And to my horror, when they came into view, they weren't white horses. And I blacked absolutely out. And this was on television. And I said, mounted on horseback rather loosely. And my producer in the headphone said, what do you think they're mounted on? Camels? This wasn't a very good start to a serious programme. Let's have record number four. Where do we go now? Can I have one of the people I've enjoyed meeting so much on the stage, Cicely Courtenays, a great friend of mine. She's a marvellous person.

Speaker 19:42

Yeah.

Brian Johnston9:47

That's what

Presenter9:57

And remember that thing where she goes in and tries to buy some dinner napkins? Oh, double damask. That's right. We can't do all of it. All right, I'll tell you what, when the the chap has given up, the assistant and he calls in the manager, can we go on from there?

Speaker 110:02

Yeah.

Speaker 310:02

Yeah.

Speaker 310:09

Allow me to help you, madam. You require... I've required two dazzled double damned dinner napkins. I beg pardon, madam. Oh, heavens, Count, you understand. Would you mind repeating your order, ma'am? I want two dazzles. A two dozen. I said two dozen. Oh, no, no, madam. No, you said two dazzons. But I understand perfectly what you mean. You mean two dozen. In other words, a double dozen. That's it. A double dozen, a double damned dinner napkin. Oh, pardon me, madam Parkinson. If I may say, sir, we're getting a little bit confused, splitting it up as it were. Now, the full order. The full order is two dazzled dimmedmas and a nip a dumpkin. Excuse me, sir. You mean two dammed dammel dimmick dizzy napkins? I do not want dizzy napkins. I want two dizzle damn-dummers. No, two dizzle damal dicks. Two dazzled damn-dummicks. Two damn dizzy dizzle dimmer dipkins. Madam, madam, please, please, your language. Oh, blast. Give me 24 serviette.

Presenter10:13

Madam

Speaker 110:14

Uh

Speaker 110:16

Oh, what

Speaker 110:18

Bible

Speaker 110:19

Yeah.

Speaker 110:21

I'm gonna

Speaker 110:33

Yeah.

Speaker 110:42

I do not

Presenter10:55

Cecily Courtnage in the sketch Double Damask. Now Brian, the job that you truly made all your own in the BBC, commentating on cricket. What's your own record as a cricketer? You played for your college? I kept in my college, and you could, I was an ordinary club cricketer, and when I joined the BBC, I had a lot of opportunity on Sundays. We used to play charity matches, and I've kept wicket to all the great bowlers, you know, Lindell, Miller, and Benson and Truman and so on. Quite unmarked? Oh, yes, look at my fingers, unbroken. I must tell you how I gave it up, though. I was keeping wicket one day to Richard Benno, and he bowed a leg break to number 11 Batsman, who went down the pitch, missed it, and with all my old speed, so I thought I whipped off the bales and said, how's that? And the umpire said, oh, this is marvellous, Tump Johnson, Bel Benno. And a chap came up to me and said, Jolly well, Stump. I said, thanks very much. He said, I'd also like to congratulate you on the sporting way you tried to give him time to get back. And so I realised, hang up the gloves, you know. Yes, so I'll give it up. You commentated for television and sound. Rather confusing with two such different techniques, wasn't it? Well, yes, it is. You mustn't talk too much on television, and of course, radio have to keep going the whole time and paint the picture with words, which is where I think John Arlet's so marvellous. He'd really.

Speaker 111:48

Yeah.

Speaker 111:54

Mm-hmm.

Presenter11:57

Conjures up, doesn't he, sort of the smell of grass, I think?

Brian Johnston11:59

Yeah.

Presenter12:00

Where cricket has shifted you around the world. How many times have you been to Australia? I've been five times to Australia and four times South Africa and New Zealand, West Indies, Pakistan. Never been to India, I'm afraid. And the best game of cricket you ever commentated?

Speaker 112:08

Okay.

Brian Johnston12:08

Yeah.

Speaker 112:08

Yeah.

Presenter12:13

I think the most exciting one was the test match 1963 at Lourdes when Colin Cowdery had to come in, one wicket to fall, and we needed six runs to win. He had his left arm in a plaster, you know, and we just drew the match. Marvellous game, that. Right through it was. Any other anxious moments you remember? Anxious moments. Well, no, I've been famous for a lot of gaffes. Some of them I mustn't repeat, even on your programme, Rog. Right, on to record number five.

Brian Johnston12:26

Yeah.

Presenter12:35

Uh can I have one of my other great favourites, Bud Fannigan, a tremendous chap. He sang strolling quite beautifully.

Brian Johnston12:40

Just strolling in the cool of the evening air.

Brian Johnston12:53

I don't envy the river.

Brian Johnston13:08

Shakes his pony

Presenter13:11

We were not

Brian Johnston13:11

Yeah.

Presenter13:11

Uh

Brian Johnston13:12

Whoa.

Presenter13:14

I'd planned it. You've done other sports, of course, Brian. Uh Monte Carlo rally.

Presenter13:19

Even a bit of the University of Belgrave.

Presenter13:21

Yes, I stand on Chiswick Bridge every now and again and say they're coming round the last bend and I allow to about forty seconds if I pass back to John Snow.

Presenter13:29

And other activities, panel shows, a lot of panel shows. Yes, I have really. I even used to take part in twenty questions when Richard wasn't there, so I've been a great stand-in for people, you know. And now, of course, you're a freelance.

Presenter13:40

I am a freelancer. I've left the BBC for about fifteen months or so. And you do Down Your Way every week you took over from Jingle. It's a marvellous programme to do. Do you know one goes around the country, it's amazing how nice everybody is. And the great thing is we're always told what a selfish society we are and we live for ourselves. It's amazing the number of people one meets who

Speaker 113:47

It's a matter of

Presenter13:58

Do good for other people. I I I think it's great. I really enjoy doing it.

Presenter14:03

And what else are you up to? We've just written a book. I've written a book, yes. Uh it's just been published called It's Been a Lot of Fun and I I rather hope you know other people think so too because this has been my life. It has been a lot of fun for me.

Presenter14:14

Well let's hope it continues to be for a long long time and in the meantime record number six. A little bit more serious in case I'm feeling sentimental on that desert island. I'd love something by a British composer and who better than Elgar and perhaps some Nimrod from his Enigma variation.

Presenter15:26

Nimrod from Elgar's Enigma Variations, Sir Malcolm Sartin conducting the Philharmonia Orchestra.

Presenter15:32

How are you going to manage on this island? You think you'd be pretty efficient as a castaway? I think I'd be very inefficient. I'm quite hopeless with my hands. I can't do anything from like fuses or knocking in nails. I'm very good at making scrambled eggs. If there were any birds, I could... I'd have to get some butter, I suppose, or somewhere. But I could scramble eggs. I learnt that when I was a fag at Eton. What about escaping? Any good at small boats? Uh no, terrified, really. I like bathing and lying on a beach. I don't like going on the sea. No, I'd stick there, absolutely.

Presenter15:58

Record number seven. Um well uh all through one's life one's had little uh little mini classics of my type of music like Smoke Gets in Your Eyes or These Foolish Things, Moon River or Raindrops Falling on My Head. And I think the modern one of those is Ty Euler Ribbon. So can I hear a bit of that?

Brian Johnston16:15

Up high up with the round

Brian Johnston16:21

Long years to yesterday, what is what means If I don't see a ribbon around the old old tree I'll stay on the bus, forget about us Put the blame on me if I don't see

Speaker 116:26

If I don't

Brian Johnston16:38

See a yellow river round wheel

Presenter16:44

Tie a Yellow Ribbon, sung and played by Dawn.

Presenter16:47

And now we come to your last disc. What's that? Well, it'd be rather nice sitting on the island to hear the voice of someone in my family. And luckily, I've got a son called, he has to call himself Barry Alexander because of Barry Johnson already in Equity. He's in this group called Design. And it'd be nice to hear his voice. He's one of my five children. I've got some other ones. But he's the one who sort of is in the public eye. And he's just had a single design in which a number he sings and composed is on it. It's called The End of the Party. Quite an appropriate little title, I suppose.

Brian Johnston17:15

I've had to

Brian Johnston17:19

Is the party over?

Brian Johnston17:22

Do you really have to go? Can you stay an hour or two?

Brian Johnston17:30

Give me one

Brian Johnston17:32

Mocha

Brian Johnston17:34

There must be

Brian Johnston17:36

An answer, would you like another dancer? Can I say?

Brian Johnston17:43

Fuck with you.

Presenter17:45

Barry Alexander and Design.

Presenter17:48

If you would take just one of your egg discs, which would it be?

Presenter17:51

Uh I think it's got to be laughed. I think I'll take cis with me with um double damask and have a good laugh sometimes anyhow. And one luxury to take with you?

Presenter17:59

I think I'll try and take an automatic bowling machine. It'd have to be worked by clockwork, so like a bat with an old bit of wood and we could bowl coconuts through this machine. There are machines like this and I can have a bit of practice. Yes, we'll get you some cricket balls. You'll have to worry with them. I've been marvellous.

Speaker 118:10

Oh that's very with life and art

Presenter18:13

And one book apart from the Bible, Shakespeare and Big Encyclopedias. One I keep by my bedside called Funny Way to Be a Hero by John Fisher. It's an anthology of music halls and it's got the life stories and comedy routines of everybody like Billy Bennett, Jimmy James, Max Miller, Flanagan and Alan, the lot and I could learn all their routines and make myself laugh even if I didn't make the birds laugh. Funny Way to Be a Hero by John Fisher. Yes, it's a lovely book.

Speaker 118:35

Right.

Brian Johnston18:35

Yeah.

Presenter18:36

And thank you, Brian Johnston, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much, Roy. Goodbye. Goodbye, everyone.

Speaker 118:48

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.