Sir Terence Rattigan

Sir Terence Rattigan0:00

Hello, I'm Kirstie Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's Archive. For rights reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy four, and the presenter was Roy Plumley.

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On our desert island this week is the playwright Sir Terence Rattigan. Sir Terence, how well could you take extended loneliness?

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Well, I think I could take it very well indeed, the old rager.

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I would rather look forward to a desert island. Really?

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If it was an agreeable one. Apart from the lack of human companionship, what would would be the worst thing about it?

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The worst thing about it would be

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The feeling that one had no one to

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write for, no one to work for. There'll be no a purpose in

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Existing. What would you be happiest to have got away from?

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Well, I'd be happiest to get away from obligations and contracts and

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and uh indeed the feeling that I had to write.

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Is music a big thing in your life?

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Not as big as it is in most people's, I suppose.

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I'm rather a lowbrow in music. What was your plan in choosing your eight records? Well, I've I thought that if I were on a desert island.

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and not looking forward to rescue.

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Uh or not envisaging it.

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that probably I would like to kind of relive.

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My life, which on the whole has been a very agreeable one.

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And so I'd chosen uh eight records that

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Will would remind me, they're very personal things, they'll remind me of certain phases in my life. What's the first phase? Where do we start? Well, let's start at school, at Harrow.

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And uh

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I believe there's a recording of Forty Years On, which is the hollow

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school song done in nineteen twenty eight and which

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I am quite sure you will be able to recognize my voice.

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What's it?

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When you look back and forget what it was about your life and

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Okay, all day,

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They don't know like that for us.

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Long fear the vibe of the birthday.

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The Harrow School song 40 years on, as you sang it, on Speech Day, 1928. And you recognize my voice. Of course, clearly.

Sir Terence Rattigan3:25

Clearly.

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What's your second record? Well, the second record is Labo M.

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The duet at the end end of the first act.

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It was the first opera I saw.

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Which recordings do we have? Well, I would like the one that Toscanini conducted because

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Uh it's it's great fun to hear him.

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He hums away underneath and it adds a sort of very moving quality.

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to the record itself.

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Oh my gosh!

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Toscanini conducting and singing along with Mimi and Rudolfa at the end of Act One of La Boheme.

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Did you go to the theatre a lot as a child? Yes, I did. I was lucky enough to be born and to have lived in London.

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And uh I used to spend my pocket money.

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By going along to the theatre. Yeah. And you know, from a very early age.

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After Harrow, you went up to Trinity College, Oxford. What did you read? Uh, history.

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The idea was that you'd follow your father into the diplomatic service, was it? It was his idea, but it was never mine.

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You became involved in the Ouds, the dramatic society? Very fervently, yes.

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As an actor?

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I'm afraid as an actor. As a good actor? As a very bad actor.

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What did you play?

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Oh, do you want uh list my trials? Um I play it.

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I played in Rome and Juliet. I played a musician.

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And I had one line in the potion scene. I had to come on, look at the supposedly dead body.

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Juliet and I had to say faith

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We may put up our pipes and be gone.

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But unhappily the audience

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roared with laughter.

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And they did the whole week.

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Uh uh mind you, I challenge anybody to say that I don't know getting enough.

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What happened when you came down?

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Well, I really didn't come down, to be honest. I

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I was sent down. What happened when you were sent down? Well, I was sent down to giving a party after ours in my digs, and it was a theatrical party.

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And uh it was in fact given

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To celebrate that fiftieth performance. It couldn't have been more.

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of a play that I had written with another undergraduate.

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And it was running at the comedy theatre called First Episode, yes. And uh this was towards the end of the Lent term and uh

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I rather hoped to be sent there indeed was, so that was a perfect excuse.

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To go to my father and say that uh I was now a fully fledged dramatist.

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Which indeed I wasn't,'cause the player came off in a second.

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I had no money at all. But anyway, I was able to say I was going to be a dramatist and not a diplomat. Now what about the succeeding plays? After first episode? Were they successful? The first ones you wrote?

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Well, I wrote uh heavens, I read about uh

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I think there were about eight, and among them was French without tears.

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But uh they were all circulating that

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Managements, including French without tears. You were writing some film scripts to keep going. Well, I I got myself a job.

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as a film writer at fifteen pounds a week, which was a lot of money in those days.

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And uh a contract.

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Last thing seven years, believe it or not.

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Eventually I might have earned as much as forty five pounds a week, you know, if I go on sitting here.

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which seemed unlikely they were inclined to fire me.

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Uh you know, the first few weeks.

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I have a list here of some of the films you wrote. Mills of St. Clements. Oh dear. Gypsy. Oh no. Well, it's true. I plead guilty. Yes. And French Without Tears came on.

Sir Terence Rattigan8:07

Yeah.

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So

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It was a stopgap really, wasn't it? As a stopgap, with two and a half weeks rehearsal.

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And it filled in rather satisfactorily. Well, it did. Yes, about three years, I suppose. About three years. Very satisfactory stop gap. Soon after that, of course, you went into the Royal Air Force. You were an air gunner. You still kept on writing.

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Yes, as much as one could as much as I could, then.

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Flarepuzza, an RAF play, was a great success.

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It was eventually, yeah, as was the one that followed it, the comedy While the Sun Shines.

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Which RAM, I think, a thousand performances in it.

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Is I think it was over a thousand. Are you still the only playwright ever to have had two runs per thousand performances in London?

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I'm

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I don't know. I think I am yeah.

Sir Terence Rattigan8:59

Now

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Well done, let's have record number three. Well, I'll tell you what I would like.

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Because this reminds me of those rather stormy

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Oxford days, I would like stormy weather, which was a

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The great sort of uh well, I don't know, just

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He hit us at that particular time, as played by Duke Ellington.

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Bogen was to us an entirely new name and a great name.

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And uh

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It not only gave him great joy.

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played a great deal because I loved it, but it also gave me great joy.

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To play it at home because it annoyed my father so much.

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Uh

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Duke Ellington and his orchestra.

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Now, the war was over, the world was at your feet, at any rate, the English-speaking world. What did you write next?

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I wrote a play for the Lunts called Love and Idleness.

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which they played in England.

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for a limited season and then played in in America for three years.

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And uh after that I wrote The Winslow Boy, yes.

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At one time you had

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Three plays in three adjoining theatres in Shaftesbury Avenue. Oh, I'm glad you remember that, yes.

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Uh

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The Apollo?

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The globe?

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And the Living.

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Uh

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End of the photograph.

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Taken with three players with my name appearing three times.

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And then Playbill. That was an evening of two plays, including the splendid The Browning version. Yes.

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men who came unstuck with adventure stories.

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Yes, I did and it was a flock and I was sad about it'cause it was

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I think almost my favourite play. About Alexander the Great. About Alexander. People thought I'd bitten off more than I could chew, and they were probably right.

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But it introduced Paul Schofield to London.

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It at least had that distinction.

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And quite a few people liked it.

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Uh apart from myself.

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You know, I think it's uh probably

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Uh if Shakespeare ran away from the theme and probably I should have run away from the theme.

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There it is, one's always gotta try something one can't do.

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And then came Who Is Sylvia? That's right. And The Deep Blue Sea, if I may interject a personal note, I think the best constructed play since the war anyway. Well, thank you very much. And The Sleeping Prince were the most distinguished cast. Sir Lawrence Olivier, Vivian Lee, and Martita Hunt.

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Uh separate tables with those magnificent performances in the two plays by Eric Portman. And Margaret Leyden. Yes. Ross, The Story of Lawrence of Avrabia. Yeah.

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But there'd been a revolution in the theatre, hadn't they?

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Yes. So I must admit they they talked about the

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Effet Theatre of Coward and Ratican.

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They said you wrote plays for Aunt Edna. Now you had invented Aunt Edna yourself. She was my own invention, yeah. You had a very clear picture of who and what Aunt Edna was.

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It was in a preface that I wrote to the collected edition of my plays and uh but I didn't mean Aunt Edna to be.

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A middle class.

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Middle-aged maiden aunt, because I said that she changed characters through the centuries. I said she sat.

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And had

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cold benches in Athens and

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She thought Sophocles was bended, and then she

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She was at the Globe Theatre for the Elizabethan drama.

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And you adore Shakespeare.

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And uh

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She's eating out of it.

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Round about uh restoration period.

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But I said there's always a I tried to say that an an

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You have to please an audience to exist. That was all I was trying to say.

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that there is a sort of uh common denominator.

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to audiences.

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Uh it is a little bit low brown.

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But uh it is

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And more.

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highbrow than than Aunt Edna.

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Uh, as she is now.

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Portrayed by my critics.

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Your critics made you retreat from the theatre for a while.

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Well, they did in a way, yes. I I I was a bit of a funk, I suppose.

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Well, we broke for our last record on a peak in your career. Let's break for our next one on this valley and have record number four. What's that to be?

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Record number four. I would like

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Because I love the ballet.

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And uh

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Particularly because Margot Fontaine is one of my best friends.

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I would like to have something to remember here by, so I would like...

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An excerpt from Swan Lake.

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An excerpt from Tchaikovsky's Swan Lake, the Swiss Roman Orchestra conducted by Ernest Anseme.

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Now because you quit the West End of London for a while didn't mean you weren't busy. You've always been active as a screenwriter. You did the screenplays of your own successes of course. And

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Which original screenplays do you like particularly to remember?

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Well, um uh The Way to the Stars, which was written during the war.

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What's the end of the war?

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Uh about the area. Yeah.

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which was an original and the sound barrier.

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Which I was kind of

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Lassoed by Alex Corda into writing about the jet engine. I knew nothing about the jet engine, but he was a bully, and he made me write it, and I'm very glad I did.

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I worked with David Lean, which is a great experience. Yes.

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And now you've returned quite triumphantly with your new play, In Praise of Love. Out of all your plays, which one would you like to be remembered by?

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Well, I think one always uh likes to be remembered by one's last. I would like I think actually in praise of love I since I'm sin sincere about this I think it is my best.

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It's the best I can at the moment do, anyway. But i if it's not that, well then I suppose the Browning version.

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Let's break for record number five.

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What I would love to hear again

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would be the scene from the importance of being earnest, which is

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Probably my favourite comedy of all time.

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Played

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Bye, John Gilgood.

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And E disabs.

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And the performance that gave me

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So much joy.

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I'm sure.

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Our listeners will agree it's absolutely marvelous.

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Where did this charitable gentleman who had a first-class ticket for this seaside resort find you?

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in a handbag.

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A hand bell?

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Yes, Lady Bracknell, I was in a handbag, a somewhat large black leather handbag.

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With handles to it.

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An ordinary handbag in fact.

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In what locality did this Mr. James or Thomas Cardew come across this ordinary handbag?

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In the cloakroom at Victoria Station. It was given to him in mistake for his own.

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Cloakroom at Victoria Station?

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Uh yes, the Brighton line.

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The line is immaterial.

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A famous scene from Oscar Wilde's The Importance of Being Earnest, played by Sir John Gilgood and Dame Edith Evans. Let's go straight into record number six, your next one.

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Well, uh this is um

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uh a a record that I think will be new to most of your listeners.

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Because it comes from a a musical that hasn't been done in England.

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But it was uh adapted by Nelkard.

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from a play of mine, The Sleeping Prince.

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The musical was called The Girl Who Came to Supper and was done in New York.

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And um

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Tissy O'Shea.

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An artist to my adore, always have

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made an enormous success in it.

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singing uh a series of musical songs.

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Of the period, the period was 1911, and the setting was the coronation of that year.

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And uh this song is Saturday Night.

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At the Rosencraton.

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Tinkers and tailors, soldiers and sailors, all out for a bit on the spree if you find that you're weary of life with your trouble and strife and the kids have got you down.

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It will all come right on Saturday night at the rose and throw Saturday night at the rose.

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Jesse O'Shea in The Girl Who Came to Summer.

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Now, Sir Terence, could you look after yourself at all? Could you build a hut?

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Well, I'd be absolutely terrible. No.

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Now I'm afraid I would uh I know it's against the rules, but I I'd long for a girl

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I mean no one's look after me at all.

Sir Terence Rattigan19:49

Yeah.

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I mean no one looked after me at all.

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Boy Fridays, I mean no, you've got to be absolutely on your own. Or friendly gorillas.

Sir Terence Rattigan19:59

There

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How about fishing?

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Uh oh yes, yes. Cultivation.

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Oh dear. I don't think so. Small boats, would you try to escape?

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I know, because I've told you I'd be only happy when I was. I didn't even try to escape.

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But I'd obviously have to do something. I couldn't starve to death, so I'd uh

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I think fishing is the thing. All right. But let's have record number seven. What's that?

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Uh well I thought um

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It's the animusical

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for which I in fact have written the book, The Girl Who Came to Supper, I just wrote the original play this was uh a musical called Goodbye, Mr. Chips. Oh, the film, the film musical. Yeah, the film musical and uh with music and lyrics by Leslie Bricus.

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And there's a, I think, a a lovely number in it, called You and I.

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You and I will travel far together

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We pursue our little star together

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We'll be happy as we are together

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We may never

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Get the head on the

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But it's heaven.

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At least to try.

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You and I sung by Shirley Bassey. And now we come to your last record. What's that to be?

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Well, it's V C Darte, the great area from Tosca, chosen for particular reasons.

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Because uh of the two plays, the collective title which is In Praise of Love.

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One is a skate on Tusca.

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And uh in that play, V. C. Dhati is actually sung offstage.

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And it will remind me of the whole evening.

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Renata Tabaldi singing Vici Date from Puccini's Tosca. If you could take just one disc of the eight you've chosen, which would it be?

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Oh, difficult question. I suppose?

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Well, it'd be the first, wouldn't it? It'd be forty years on, because I think I'm recorded. You and all those other Herovians would that's right. And one luxury to take to the island, will you?

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A luxury, yes.

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Uh

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Uh could I have uh

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Say a case of Dom Perignon.

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Why not? Why stick at one case?

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Uh

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You mean uh a dozen cases? An adequate supply. An adequate supply, yeah. And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare.

Sir Terence Rattigan23:26

Abbott.

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And big encyclopedias.

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There was no difficulty about that. I I would take given.

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Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Yes. In how many volumes?

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In my version it's twelve, but uh I think it's now been done in in one in the paperback.

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In what could be called a good long read. A good long read. A very rewarding one, too. Thank you, Sir Terence Radikin, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. And thank you, Roy Clumley. Goodbye, everyone.

Sir Terence Rattigan24:08

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts please visit bbc.co.uk slash radio four.