Bill Sowerbutts

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than on the original broadcast. The presenter is Roy Plomley. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:27

Cast away on our desert island this week is gardening expert Bill Sauerbatz.

Presenter0:32

How well could you condition yourself to loneliness?

Presenter0:36

Oh, I think I could manage all right. Um as long as there weren't too many snakes about and lions and tigers and things like that and the wasp vegetation. What would you be happiest to have got away from?

Presenter0:47

A concrete jungle. Right.

Presenter0:50

How much does music mean to you in life?

Presenter0:53

Oh, quite a lot. I I like music. Have you any musical skills yourself? Oh, very little, I would say. I describe myself as a twenty-three handicap uh piano player. But you do play? Oh, yes, I can play enough to uh enjoy myself, uh to amuse myself.

Presenter1:07

On what basis have you chosen your eighth record? Well, I I think a lot of them are tied up with travel really, an experience when I've been abroad.

Presenter1:15

And uh and you're in uh what was to me a beautiful piece of music at the same time. What's the first one you've chosen? This uh Berlius Overture, Le Frangeuse. It's something like that. My French is not very good. Is it French? Yes. Le Frangeouge. It's great.

Presenter1:29

Beautiful. Sends a shiver down my spine.

Presenter2:32

Part of the Berlioz Overture Les Franjourge, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Thomas Beacham.

Presenter2:39

What's your second record? Well, it's the slave's chorus from Nabucco, which I heard, or we heard, many, many years ago in the Rome Opera House. Yes? Berdi? Berdi. Why do you choose that? It was the time of Tito's visit to Rome, a state visit, you know. And of course, a lot of Italians were against this, the slave state and all this business.

Presenter2:59

And once they started up in the opera, this slaves chorus, thousands of leaflets came showering down from the balcony. Evidently students had got together and they teamed these down into the thousand and it absolutely stopped the opera. The police came in, hoofed them out. Nobody can be like an Italian policeman. It's just like Gilbert and Sullivan. They poured in by the thousand and hoofed these students out and then we started again. Beautiful.

Speaker 23:41

What's the living things upon you?

Speaker 24:00

Oh it's here.

Presenter4:18

Varpensiero from Verdi's opera Nabucco, the Rome Opera House Chorus and Orchestra. Mr. Saubert, what part of the North Country do you come from? I was born in Ashton-underline, under the Line of Hills and the Line of Pennines. Do you still live there? Only six miles away, six miles due east, away now at a place called Hollingwest, which is actually in Cheshire. Now, you're a nurseryman and seedsman. Were you born and bred well?

Presenter4:44

I was born on a market garden cum nursery cum farm. My father had everything. We grew food crops, we grew flowering plants, which is traditional in nurseryman's business. We had hens, we had pigs, we had a horse. Anything that moved, we had it. And did you help as a child? No choice. We had to help, yes. And you started on your own?

Presenter5:09

Well, my father died in 27, and I had to leave school rather early. I had to start work immediately then. That would be at 16. And then I started in business on my own at 21. I was sort of half kicked out, half heaved out, and half volition, shall we say. I wanted to start on my own. I wanted to run before I could walk, like most young people do. Did you take over your father's premises? No. Oh, no, I started on my own, a wee little place nearby. Did you specialize?

Presenter5:40

Uh yes, uh vegetables, but I also in those days specialized in in grasses a lot, grass seed. Mm-hmm. That is mainly male order, is it? It was male order, it was a lot of male order, it was very easy to handle, you see. Yes. Very easy. And during that time, I'm thinking now of of the early thirties, thirty-three, four, five, six, uh a lot of houses going up, everybody wanted a lawn and um well we sold them the grass seed.

Presenter6:03

Do people shop sensibly for vegetables? They used to come to you and buy what you would grow in your produce. I should say today is a trend away from sensible shopping for vegetables. The uh uh the um housewife of today, she's not as careful as she used to be. A lot of them, of course, are working and

Presenter6:22

And really, they want this immediate food, this instant food. And nearly always this is allied to mediocrity. You see, obviously, it takes longer to shell some peas and buy them and put a bit of salt in or whatever. I don't know what you put in. The good peas, you don't need anything in. But it takes longer to do that than a tin of peas, you see. And of course, people now say, Right, well, we'll have a tin of canned peas, you see. But of course, the two are not comparable in quality, are they? No. And the same with frozen, surely. Same with frozen. I can't think why people eat frozen food, really, when they can get fresh, maybe at the same season. I mean, why, for instance, in I see people in mid-summer in June, July, buying frozen strawberries. Well, this is surely a nonsense, really. That's a record number three. What's that? Yes, well, this is.

Presenter7:10

Uh furiles uh beeth on the piano. I like this I think because um

Presenter7:15

I this is one of the few pieces I can play because it's it's quite simple or comparatively simple. I think it's only one flat or something like that. Once I get it into four or five flats I'm lost. But at this I can play it reasonably well.

Presenter8:25

Beethoven's Fur Alies played by Alfred Brendel. Did he play it according to your ideas?

Presenter8:31

Shall we say I play it more slowly? Right. I don't know how how Ludwig van Beertum would would play. We know you principally, of course, from Gardner's Quest in Time. Was that your introduction to broadcasting? Oh, no. No, before then.

Presenter8:44

See, the Gardner's Question started in 1947. Well, before then, for a few years, perhaps three years, I used to do quite often the half-hour talk between 2 and 2.30. And you were asked to do half hour, which was about 2,400 words, on say celery or grapes or peaches or lettuce or nearly all food crops, you see. And really, that was following the tradition that C. H. Middleton started before the war. You see, his were always half-hour talks, you see. And for a time, that continued.

Presenter9:19

And in 1947, Gardener's Question Time started on home ground. It started in your hometown in Ashton-underline. Yes, the Broadway Cottel, Ashton-on-E-Line. It had another title originally, didn't it? It was called, I think, originally, How Does Your Garden Grow? And the first question master was Bob Stead, later head of North Region. Yes.

Presenter9:38

And after that, Freddie Grisewood, of course. Yes, with Ted Mills, with one or two other people in the chair, but

Presenter9:46

Freddie Grise would did about at least twelve years, I would think. Really, Freddie should have um

Presenter9:54

The whole of the credit, I think, for the length and life of the programme. I'm sure he made it, Freddie. Yes. How many editions have there been?

Presenter10:01

Oh, it it's uh we did the uh thousandth and twenty-fifth year a couple of years ago. It's about eleven hundred and something now. Yeah. Have you been in the lot?

Presenter10:10

I've been a lot except two. I I think I had to miss two when my wife was very ill. Are there any other original members still in the team? Yes, Fred Lords. Fred Lords has done the lot pretty well. Yes. Do you ever get any questions that stump you?

Presenter10:23

Yes, occasionally. Of course there are some questions that that there are no or there cannot be an answer to, for instance, I remember one woman, she said, uh how was it when she planted a plum stone an apple came up? You see, well you you can't answer a question like this, there is no answer to it. But I I think now

Presenter10:44

I think it could be reasonably and without boasting say that we don't get a question at Florida because uh well there are three of us anyway but I think the great strength is Alan Gemmel the professor of biology uh and he can sort anything out uh you know if there's a question without an answer you can always find an answer. He works from like basic principles and he can work anything out. You do a lot of journalism as well of course. Oh yeah, yeah quite a lot. Yes I do a syndicated article for various provincial papers.

Presenter11:12

Let's have record number four. Record number four is um Beethoven's Coral.

Presenter11:17

I remember this particularly because I remember being on a holiday

Presenter11:21

Oh, one of these wine festival holidays on the Rhine, you know, all this slapping of thighs and jumping over trees like they do with these Germans when they get get a bit canned up. And um but this was a floating stage on the Rhine at Koblentz and uh it was a bit of a coral. And uh this was a marvellous evening, floodlit, a marvellous experience.

Presenter11:44

Which part of the work should we hear?

Presenter11:46

I like the first movement.

Presenter11:48

Music laughing is great. We'll start at the beginning.

Presenter12:45

The opening of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Hans Schmidt Ischerstett.

Presenter12:51

In a long career, what are the main changes you've seen in in the business?

Presenter12:56

Well of course um going back to the late thirties the accident then was all on vegetable growing of course necessarily during the war, you know the Dig for Victory campaign and whatnot. And then the moment that the the war was over or when food became fairly easy or easier shall we say there was an absolute revolt against that. We're not going to grow any vegetables again and allotments fell into disuse.

Presenter13:17

And indeed people in the garden said, no more vegetables. It was all on flowers, you see, in the late 40s, early 50s, and even into the 60s. All flowers. No more food, thank you very much, said the public. But since then, there is a turn back now, and I think this is a revolt, and I'm very glad of it is. A revolt against this mediocrity in food that we're all suffering from now, where the meat poker appears to be, oh, we're told it is good when it's not good at all. And more and more people, and this is supported by the seed trade figures, this year particularly, a lot more vegetables seeds have been sold. And last year there were more than the year before. There is an increase in the sale of vegetable seeds.

Presenter13:57

There's a boom now in indoor plants. Oh, terrific, yes. Terrific. One or two tips. What sort of ranges, what sort of new plants can we put in our homes apart from rubber plants and aspidistras and the old familiars? Well, it is a fact that since this great upsurge in houseplants in this country, the professional gardeners have been searching around abroad.

Presenter14:21

On plants that would tolerate house conditions. Now, house conditions basically are low humidity.

Presenter14:29

and in different light. So what constitutes a house plant is really a plant that will tolerate those conditions. As against the conditions of a greenhouse where you have high humidity and higher light.

Presenter14:39

And they're finding that a lot of plants they used to think were only greenhouse plants will grow in in these conditions in in a dwelling house. Things like brunfelsias and aphalandras are now being sold quite frequently as houseplants. And they're c they're quite good houseplants.

Presenter14:56

You know, the old country cottage where they have beautiful house plants in the window. It's not necessarily just because the old lady there perhaps is a good gardener and has green fingers. She also probably has not got central heating. She probably has a flagged floor. The humidity is high. She has the plants stuck in her window. This is why they do well.

Presenter15:15

Another record, what next?

Presenter15:17

Ah, this marvelous girl Elizabeth Schwarzkopf.

Presenter15:21

The nuns' chorus. I think this is marvellous.

Bill Sowerbutts15:29

Be in free washed in coast of

Bill Sowerbutts15:55

Yeah.

Bill Sowerbutts16:01

We've hold it all

Bill Sowerbutts16:06

Bringing clothes and darksund.

Bill Sowerbutts16:20

Uh

Speaker 216:20

Uh

Presenter16:24

The nuns chorus from Casanova, sung by Elizabeth Schwartzkopf.

Presenter16:28

Let's go straight on to record number six.

Presenter16:32

Well this um number six is uh Ave Maria.

Presenter16:36

I like it some a young voice. Uh this is a

Presenter16:40

Is it a school choir or something like that? Yes. Kirkintillock Junior Choir. Kirkintilloch, where's that? Scotland, that's the audio. Ah. They're not singing anything Gaelic, are they? I hope.

Presenter16:49

No, this is it. This is what I like.

Presenter17:49

Ave Maria sung by the Kirken Tellock Junior Choir.

Presenter17:53

Now, Mr. Sauberts, as a practical man of the soil, I presume you can build a greenhouse. Could you manage a good watertight hut on a desert island?

Presenter18:02

Well, I just have a go. I think it was yes.

Presenter18:05

I think the you know, you'd have to see where they

Presenter18:08

What the temperatures were, you might want to find a cave facing north where it was nice and cool and where there were no bow constrictors or something like that. I think I can manage. You seem worried about snakes.

Speaker 118:15

I think I did money.

Presenter18:18

Monkeys are always worried about snakes. The only thing they worry about, you know, and I think the human animal does too. Well, certainly you could grow food, couldn't you?

Presenter18:24

Well, if there was a you know some soil there and enough rain. Yeah. Done any fishing or anything useful of that sort? Oh very little fishing but uh some. I would think say on this hypothetical island if it was tidal I would think I would have to rig up some sort of stones or breakwater where at low tide you had some fish stranded and and now you've got your breakfast for tomorrow. Would you try to escape?

Speaker 218:29

Yeah.

Presenter18:49

Oh, the odds would have to be heavily on the side of safety for me. I should want my feet on dry land. I've a I've I think a fear of the sea. If it's not fear, it's a very, very great respect. Back to music.

Presenter19:02

Yes, well the next one is uh the Barbara Seville. Madame Callas. This is the

Presenter19:08

Is she uh is she Greek? Kallas? Yeah, Greek. Greek lady. Yeah. Maria Kalas.

Bill Sowerbutts19:15

My save.

Speaker 219:29

Good day.

Speaker 119:34

Ah

Bill Sowerbutts20:00

Bream of each

Presenter20:10

Maria Callas singing Una Vochi Pocofar from The Barber of Seville. And we come now to your last record.

Presenter20:17

Ah, well now this is perhaps uh a bit sad. It's uh actually the uh funeral march from Eruka. I bet of them.

Presenter20:26

It has this

Presenter20:27

sort of spine-shivering appeal to me.

Presenter20:30

Great.

Presenter21:31

The funeral marched to the second movement of Beethoven's Eroica Symphony, the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Herbert von Karjan. If you could take only one disc of the HU Platus, which would it be? Oh, I think the Berlius. I think it smells music, led us right through such lovely melodies, haunted melodies, Le Franc, Le Franc. And one luxury to take to the island with you.

Presenter21:55

Well I should very much miss my pipe. I hope I could grow some uh tobacco. I should certainly take a few pipes with me. And I think perhaps um a vat. So if there are any hops there I could grow some hops and brew some good ale instead of this wheat stuff we're having. Splendid.

Presenter22:12

And one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare and big encyclopedias.

Presenter22:17

Oh, I think a dictionary. I would take a really superb dictionary, and I should want to sit down and write that book that I've always promised myself to do. Right. I never got round to it. Blessed have plenty of time now, wouldn't I? You wouldn't. Amongst my brewing and growing my tobacco. And thank you, Bill Saubert, for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you, Roy. Goodbye, everyone.