Professor Liz Morris

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:46

My castaway this week is the glaciologist Professor Liz Morris. She's a scientist whose work in some of Earth's most inhospitable environments has not only paved the way for future generations of women in her field, but broadened humanity's understanding of climate change and polar science. Her many accolades include the prestigious Polar Medal, an OBE and her own glacier well, one named in her honor.

Presenter1:11

It's a far cry from the early days of her career when women were banned from taking part in field research for the British Antarctic Survey. She persisted and in 1987 became the first British woman to camp out and carry out experiments away from a research station in the wilds of Antarctica. She says, What is very, very nice is to be lying in a pyramid tent with the swish of the ice crystals blowing against the canvas of the tent and to know that you're snug and warm and whatever else is going on outside, you've got it sorted. Professor Liz Morris, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hello and it's lovely to be here. It's great to have you Liz and I feel like you're rather an expert. I mean of all the people that I've interviewed, you have got to be one of the most experienced at survival. You've been to the Arctic and the Antarctic many times. What do you love about it?

Liz Morris2:03

Well, there are days which were absolutely perfect, where the wind drops, the sky is blue, but still out of the sky from very high altitude, you get ice crystals falling down like a sort of rain of little diamonds because they flutter in the air and you see all these points of colour. And then they pile up in a very sort of soft, beautiful layer on the surface, which is ideal for skiddoos and sledges. And you're going off into a landscape where no one else has been before. It's completely untouched. You're going to be leaving the marks of your skis across it, but otherwise there's nothing there except whiteness. And that is absolutely perfect.

Presenter2:50

I do want to hear about your trip to the Arctic when you were prey to a polar bear. What happened?

Liz Morris2:56

Well

Liz Morris2:57

I was invited to join the Norwegians to make some measurements at the north part of the Spitsbergen archipelago.

Liz Morris3:05

And the first thing that we had to do was obviously test our rifles because we knew it was polar bear country.

Liz Morris3:11

So we did. We fired off our rifles, made sure they were working, and turned round and found that a polar bear had come to have a look.

Liz Morris3:19

To see what all the racket was about. And my GA and I were living in a crate which had been used to ship a skidoo in. So you and your general assistant are in a crate? A crate, a wooden crate. Is that normal? It's not really normal. You'd normally want to be in a tent because it'd be warmer. Just checking. I haven't done a lot of.

Presenter3:30

Yeah.

Liz Morris3:38

Expeditions myself? No. Well, you would normally want to be in a tent, but of course a polar bear could rip a tent to shreds very easily. So the crate was supposed to give us a bit more protection. But the problem was, of course, you don't have any windows in a crate, and we just had the flap at the front open a crack to let some air in.

Liz Morris3:58

And during the night we started hearing crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch around uh as the polar bear was sniffing around the crate.

Liz Morris4:07

And I must admit, I I will freely admit to feeling absolute visceral fear at that stage, because I just thought, well, this this bear can just lift the crate up and just

Presenter4:13

Mm-hmm.

Liz Morris4:19

Rip it to shreds, throw it around.

Liz Morris4:22

And so we sat there sort of half the night with our backs to the the wall and the rifle sort of between us waiting for trouble.

Liz Morris4:30

And it wasn't until the following morning that the Norwegians who had a they had a window in their cabin that they were staying in, so they could see the coast was clear, came out and let us out. And yes, we got the work done, but I will say it wasn't the most delightful trip.

Liz Morris4:49

Do you ever listen to music while you're out in the field? I don't. People do now, but sort of I come from a sort of pre-Walkman generation. So I would be listening to music in my head. But you s yeah, I've heard that you sing. Oh, well, I do sing on skiddoo. I think my GAs would wish me to be singing something simple and concentrating on whether they're going to go down a crevasse. But sometimes I attempt some bach fugue or other.

Liz Morris5:16

get quite absorbed in trying to sing four parts at once.

Presenter5:19

Well, that is what I call multitasking. I think we should get started with your music then, if you wouldn't mind. Your first track today, what's it going to be?

Presenter5:27

Uh my f

Liz Morris5:27

First track today is the final movement of Beethoven's Sixth Symphony, and I've chosen this because it was called by Beethoven Shepherd's Song in Gratitude After a Storm.

Liz Morris5:40

And it's the first music I would have heard, undoubtedly, because my mother

Liz Morris5:46

used it as a lullaby.

Liz Morris5:48

And of course I was born in 1946 when they were finally able to be together again after the war. They were married in 1939.

Liz Morris5:57

They were finally able to start making a life together.

Liz Morris6:01

And along with many other people in those days, they were full of hope for the future. They were trying to make a better world.

Speaker 46:06

For the future.

Liz Morris6:10

You know, all sorts of wonderful things happened during those years, not to mention the National Health Service in 1948.

Liz Morris6:20

I'm sure I absorbed that feeling of hope.

Liz Morris6:23

From them, and so this song will represent that period and that hope.

Presenter7:29

Part of the final movement of Beethoven's Sixth Symphony performed by the Berlin Philharmonic conducted by Herbert von Karagan.

Presenter7:36

Liz Morris, you were born in West London in nineteen forty six, the eldest of two daughters to Jim and Jessie, both English teachers. Tell me about family life. What are your earliest memories?

Liz Morris7:48

It's very difficult to say because I don't have very many really early memories. And some of them are actually confused because there were a lot of friends of my family's, young teachers and various trade unionists that they knew, a whole motley of people. And looking back, I can't quite remember how old they were, why they were there. But all I remember is a great crowd of very happy people. So it sounds like a sociable household. It was a very sociable household. Parties, talking, discussions, plots and plans, and generally

Presenter8:18

Yeah.

Liz Morris8:26

Stimulating, I think is the word. And your parents both teachers? They were both teachers. In fact, my mother had taken over my father's job during the war when he was in North Africa. But when he came back, basically he wanted his job back. Thank you very much. So she had to find another job, but was fortunate to find one teaching also nearby in

Presenter8:52

in action. So you were born nineteen forty six. Now I know'cause my dad was born in the winter of nineteen forty seven and that was famously the big freeze. Do you remember that? Do you remember your first encounter with snow and ice?

Liz Morris9:04

I don't remember it directly, but I remember very well my parents saying to me that I was walking by then and that I was taken out for a walk in the snow and I absolutely refused to come in. And they had to spend hours trying to persuade me that the walk was over and it was time to come in and warm up. And of course that became a bit of a family joke that I started early in just refusing to come in from the snow.

Presenter9:32

It's interesting hearing you talk about your mum and dad. You know, there they are both obviously fascinated by, engaged with ideas and politics and the life of the mind, I suppose. Tell me a bit more about them as people. I mean, your mother, you know, she was something of a pioneer. She she taught children with dyslexia as we would see it now. I don't know if that's what what she would have thought of it as in those days. Well, that's right.

Liz Morris9:42

Uh

Liz Morris9:54

She had children who undoubtedly now would be diagnosed with dyslexia, but at the time this was a sort of frontier research field that she only really got to find out about when she had an eye operation and was lying around in Moorfield's hospital, and the consultants started discussing things with her and telling her about this new research.

Liz Morris10:18

But the other thing, of course, that happened was that there were very many traumatized children who'd come from the Caribbean.

Liz Morris10:27

And who were

Liz Morris10:29

completely baffled by this new life in England, cold, wet, horrible, and appeared to be finding it difficult to learn. But of course they weren't unintelligent. They were just having a really bad time.

Presenter10:42

One would look at

Liz Morris10:42

My mum was very, very strongly convinced that they needed looking after.

Presenter10:42

My mom

Liz Morris10:48

So there I hope there are a lot of people now, the early windrush generation, who might look back and think, Oh, well, at least Mrs Morris tried to look after us.

Presenter10:54

Good

Presenter10:59

Oh, how lovely. It's time for some more music now, Liz. It's your second choice today. Tell us about this one. What are we going to hear?

Liz Morris11:07

Well, the second choice is Paul Robeson singing Swing Low, Sweet Chariot, and of course he was a terrific hero of the time, and I would like to remember

Liz Morris11:20

That period.

Liz Morris11:21

which was one again of positivity, admiration for a black singer and a black activist, and no feeling then, really, that there was a problem. This was one of my parents' favourite records. They loved Paul Ribson's voice, and so do I.

Speaker 411:41

Swing Lord, sweet chariot Come and live for carry me a home Swing low, sweet chariot Come and live for a carry me a home

Presenter12:10

Mm.

Presenter12:11

Paul Robeson and Zwing Low Sweet Chariot.

Presenter12:15

So, Professor Liz Morris, your parents, as you mentioned, married in nineteen thirty nine. Tell me a bit more about your father's experiences during the war. What did he do?

Liz Morris12:25

Well, he started off as a gunner.

Liz Morris12:27

But he very rapidly learnt Spanish, which gave him enough languages to join the newly formed Intelligence Corps.

Liz Morris12:35

And then in due course he went off to North Africa and landed on the eighth of november, nineteen forty two, in the Torch Landings in Algiers.

Liz Morris12:45

And from then on I know quite a lot about what his life was like, because I've been transcribing his wartime diaries and his letters home to my mother. Oh, my goodness. So I have an day to day

Presenter12:53

Oh my

Liz Morris12:59

what he was up to and what he was doing. Heavily censored, of course, in the sense that we don't get much about the detail of the work, except that obviously it was basically police work. I mean, for example,

Presenter13:06

Except

Liz Morris13:12

He never mentioned an officer's surname. It was always Captain F or Captain L or whatever. And I had terrific trouble trying to find out who these people might have been.

Presenter13:18

Whatever.

Liz Morris13:24

you know, with massive searches in the National Archives and so on.

Liz Morris13:28

until I realized I'd been stupid and just looked at the envelopes of the letters he sent home to my mother, on which, of course, each officer had signed his name to say he'd censored the letter.

Presenter13:42

So tell me a little bit more about you as a little girl, Lidliz. We've got such a lovely sense of your parents. What kind of kid were you? I'm guessing you read a lot because you had these intelligent English teacher parents.

Presenter13:56

Yeah.

Liz Morris13:56

Well, I know I was reading all sixteen of our family library books each week, and I usually ran out of something to read, so I had to find

Presenter14:03

So had to find

Liz Morris14:04

So, I had to find another few from the family shelves. So, I was reading a lot. What were you reading? What kind of books?

Liz Morris14:12

Uh well, that changed over the years, of course. I mean, my uh my early years I was obsessed with aircraft.

Liz Morris14:19

So I would I would be reading Biggles and and the dumpy book of Aircraft and the Air, I remember, as sort of was my constant companion. Fantastic. And then that suddenly

Liz Morris14:32

fell away uh because I saw a film.

Liz Morris14:36

about the Mathorn, and from then on it was mountains and nothing but mountains.

Presenter14:41

So this is all you know, these are and I guess would have been seen in the in the fifties as quite kind of boys' own pursuits. You know, was was that considered unusual? Did you ever h have a librarian kind of trying to press a Bunty Annual into your hand instead or anything like that?

Liz Morris14:56

I don't think we ever consulted librarians. I think we went straight for the books we wanted. Uh

Liz Morris15:02

You were like, no, mountains, I'm fine, thank you. Yeah, I knew I wanted the mountains, and that was that.

Speaker 315:06

That was that.

Liz Morris15:08

No, and I think I was again incredibly lucky to have two teachers who obviously didn't think that girls couldn't do certain things.

Presenter15:17

Yeah.

Speaker 415:17

Yeah.

Liz Morris15:18

You know, teachers are always looking at children to say, what can you do? Not what can't you do.

Presenter15:22

Yeah.

Liz Morris15:23

And of course when I went to the secondary school I went to a boys' school which then was just taking girls. So for most of my school life I was in an environment which was heavily populated by boys and therefore there were all the things like good science teaching and things that you would associate with boys' schools at that time.

Presenter15:46

Time. When did you realize that it was physics and maths that was your passion rather than English as as it had been for your parents?

Presenter15:56

Yeah.

Liz Morris15:56

I think he was a practical

Liz Morris15:58

decision really. And I respected my parents' judgment enough that when they said, Well, actually, you know, y yes, of course you could read English and you'd be very good, but you'd have a more interesting life if you became a physicist, I

Liz Morris16:11

Thought, okay, they know what they're talking about. That's what

Presenter16:14

What we do. And they knew a very famous physicist, didn't they? They were friends with Cecil Powell, a Nobel winner.

Liz Morris16:21

Yes, I can remember Cecil Powell coming to see us one time, and I was in bed with measles.

Liz Morris16:27

And

Liz Morris16:28

He came up to say hello, found that I was reading a book on astronomy.

Liz Morris16:33

And to my absolute horror, he revealed that there was one more planet than I thought there were, because this was a Victorian book.

Liz Morris16:42

Which one was missing? What was missing? It would be Pluto that was missing.

Presenter16:42

Which one was me?

Presenter16:43

Mm-hmm.

Liz Morris16:46

And then, to my even greater horror, he he wrote on the front of the book, he signed the book, Cecil Powell. And of course, to a child who'd been brought up to never ever write in a book, I thought that this was an absolute outrage.

Speaker 416:57

I bet

Presenter17:03

Who is this man? How dare you?

Presenter17:06

Uh

Presenter17:08

Do you still have it?

Presenter17:10

Thank goodness. Yes, came to appreciate it later.

Liz Morris17:11

Can't do it.

Presenter17:13

Liz, I think we should have some more music now. I'd love to hear your third disc, please. What's next?

Liz Morris17:15

Now

Presenter17:18

Yeah.

Liz Morris17:18

Well, what's next is some bach. I don't think I could really cope without the forty eight, and it will remind me of my very unsuccessful attempts to play the piano, and learn the piano when I was a teenager.

Presenter17:34

As a teenager, okay.

Liz Morris17:35

And and my sister's very successful attempts. But this is Bach's fugue number nine in E major, with, of course, Glen Gould.

Presenter18:46

Fugue number nine in E major from Book Two of The Well-Tempered Clavier by Bach, performed by Glenn Gould.

Presenter18:54

Liz Morris, you studied physics at Bristol University as advised by your parents, so in the mid-sixties. Were there many other women on your course?

Liz Morris19:02

Yeah.

Presenter19:02

Yeah.

Liz Morris19:03

Well, there were four of us in my year about a hundred men but all four of us were great friends, and I don't think we felt that there was any problem about being outnumbered.

Presenter19:14

What

Liz Morris19:15

Yeah.

Presenter19:15

What about when it came to tutorials or essay subjects? I know that you were occasionally people tried to steer you towards things that you weren't so interested in.

Liz Morris19:23

Yeah.

Presenter19:24

Well there was

Liz Morris19:24

One occasion when my tutor, who was a very nice man, asked all of us what we would like to write our essays about and choose something that we were interested in, and turned to me and said, What are you interested in? So I said, Of course, mountains. And he said, Would you like to write an essay on mountain clothing?

Liz Morris19:45

And I was absolutely disgusted because I thought this was a very girly thing to do.

Presenter19:48

Oh, it's a

Liz Morris19:51

So I said, well, no, and I went off to

Liz Morris19:55

C, another lecturer, John Nye, who was a glaciologist and therefore was working in mountainous regions and said, Well, what can I write this essay on, please? Can I write on Glassius? So he helped me, and that was the start of becoming a glaciologist, because then after I graduated, I went on to become his doctoral student and start really my studies in glaciology then.

Liz Morris20:21

Tell me about what you learned from him.

Liz Morris20:24

Well

Liz Morris20:25

John Nye was an absolutely towering figure in my field, you know, one of one of the absolute greats. And he was very austere.

Liz Morris20:36

A beautiful writer, so his papers are an absolute example of how to write a a scientific paper.

Liz Morris20:45

He did have one flaw from my point of view, which was that his experience in experimental work had been with a very small and delicate thing called a bubble raft, which gave you some information about how crystals worked. But the task he gave me as a student was to construct a model glacier, which involved a very large heavy sheet metal two inch thick, and large amounts of lead weights. It was generally a lumbering sort of experiment. And I don't think John really, really knew what he asked me to do. So where was it and what were you trying to find out?

Presenter21:17

Oh my god.

Presenter21:24

Deal with it.

Liz Morris21:25

Uh

Liz Morris21:26

John had really very, very nicely explained theoretically that there would be two processes that a glacier would use to get over its bumpy bed. One would be just by bending the ice so it could go round the bump.

Liz Morris21:40

And the other would be by melting at the upstream, and the water would flow down to the lower part and refreeze. So regulation and plastic flow would be the two processes. So I had to basically construct a lump of something that could be pulled through ice and demonstrate these two processes going on.

Liz Morris22:03

But of course ice is a very strong material, so in order to bend the ice and provoke these things I would have to be putting on large weights and in something which had to be a very strong piece of apparatus.

Presenter22:15

I'm big.

Liz Morris22:17

About a metre by a metre by a metre. So just.

Liz Morris22:22

Fitted into a chest freezer. It didn't help that our lab was on the top floor.

Liz Morris22:29

of the physics building. And so this enormous thing had to be taken by crane uh into onto the top floor and into into my fridge. I hope it was worth it. What did you find out?

Presenter22:31

Building

Liz Morris22:42

Well, I found out some things about the regulation process which hadn't been demonstrated experimentally before, but I must admit it was one of those theses where you're very glad it's over.

Presenter22:53

Let's have some more music. Your fourth choice today, what are we going to hear next and why are you taking this to the island?

Presenter23:00

My fool.

Liz Morris23:00

Choice is Carol Nan, which is performed by the Triorki Male Voice Choir. And for me this is going to remind me of all my friends, especially my friends in North Wales, and of all the times that I've had happy times up there climbing or canoeing, walking or just hanging out. This I suppose will just

Liz Morris23:27

also remind me of my Welsh

Liz Morris23:30

Heritage, you know, of my mining grandfather and uncles and

Liz Morris23:37

All the things that the Welsh stand for, in my mind. And the Welsh mountains, too.

Presenter23:40

Mm.

Presenter23:43

Two now.

Presenter24:16

Calon Lan A Pure Heart performed by the Trioke Male Voice Choir.

Presenter24:22

Professor Liz Morris, you first applied to the British Antarctic Survey in the early seventies. What did they tell you at that time?

Liz Morris24:29

Yeah.

Liz Morris24:31

I got a very nice letter saying sorry, there are no facilities for women in the Antarctic.

Presenter24:38

What the

Liz Morris24:38

What do you mean by that, Juice?

Presenter24:39

Yeah.

Liz Morris24:39

Take

Presenter24:39

I mean, it's not like there are many facilities for anyone in the Antarctic.

Liz Morris24:42

Well, that is very true. You know, you can have as many separate snow pits as you want, if you like.

Liz Morris24:50

I don't know.

Liz Morris24:52

I was very cross because I thought, well, you know, I've

Liz Morris24:55

I've got my qualifications. I've got quite a lot of experience. I ought to be employable there. This is just not on. But I made a plan.

Liz Morris25:06

Nor was it?

Liz Morris25:07

I'll wait them out. I certainly was able to go and work in the universities, so I did a postdoc in the University of East Anglia, which provided a fair amount of entertainment because I was working underneath a glacier in the French Alps where there was access because of hydroelectric power schemes.

Liz Morris25:28

And the idea was that they were trying to capture the subglacial stream.

Liz Morris25:34

At a high enough point to get a a good long run downhill to generate electric power. So, how were you recording the data? I mean, what kind of equipment did you have underground like that?

Liz Morris25:44

Well, we started off with a very early version of a data logger, so which would take the instrument readings and record them, and then we could come back and gather all the data. But it very soon broke down. So then I was the data recorder, so I stayed under the glacier for a week, writing down the data every hour. For a week without coming out at all? Without coming out at all. I had a colleague who would come up every day very devotedly, bringing me my bread and my ham and a bit of water and so on. But when I came out, of course, I was absolutely dazzled by the sunlight. It was extraordinary to come out of that sort of environment. And how did you cope with it?

Presenter26:27

And how did you cope with it? I mean, you know, did you how did you cope with the isolation, the the cold, all of it?

Liz Morris26:33

Well, you know, I was I was doing my job and I I didn't really have much time to think because it seemed like every five minutes I was having to write down some some figures. Taking those hourly measurements. Yeah. And was it just what

Presenter26:43

But

Presenter26:46

Uh It's Olympic.

Liz Morris26:47

Paper or pencil and paper, yes.

Presenter26:50

And were you always keen to put yourself forward? I'm imagining you as this very determined young woman who's been turned down by the Antarctic Survey. They've said no, you can't come. And you're kind of trying were you trying to prove yourself? I mean, putting yourself forward for

Liz Morris26:59

You can't

Presenter27:04

Okay, so one needs to go underneath the glacier for a week. Fine, I'll do it.

Liz Morris27:07

No

Liz Morris27:08

Absolutely not.

Presenter27:09

Yeah.

Liz Morris27:09

Yeah.

Presenter27:09

You weren't like that.

Liz Morris27:10

No.

Liz Morris27:11

This might be a bit of a diversion, but these days, unfortunately, the young scientists know that there are very, very few jobs for them, and they are having to put themselves forward, demonstrate, and try to be as obvious as possible and sell themselves at a very, very early age in order to try and get one of the very few jobs that are going.

Liz Morris27:35

In those days, I think I knew I always would have a job as a scientist. And that was the big, big difference, that there was pretty well full employment. And of course, that sort of security is fantastic when you're developing yourself as a scientist. Yes. Because you don't have to

Presenter27:40

Okay.

Liz Morris27:53

Make a show of yourself too soon.

Speaker 427:55

Uh

Liz Morris27:56

You can learn your trade.

Liz Morris27:59

It's time for disc number five. What's your next choice?

Liz Morris28:03

Well, my next choice is the ariel, the duet, He Shall Feed His Flock, from Handel's Messiah.

Liz Morris28:11

And apart from the fact that I've actually got quite a devotion to sheep, I've also spent a lot of my life looking after other scientists. And I think it's one of the parts of science which is underrated. The bringing on of young scientists, helping your fellows by reviewing their papers and reviewing grant applications, and just encouraging.

Presenter28:33

Mm-hmm.

Liz Morris28:35

And, you know, when they get stuck on a problem, saying you will solve it. I have to circle back to the sheep, though, Liz. You said very fond of sheep. Why? Well, I live next door to a sheep farm in Glenshee, and when I first went there, I couldn't quite understand how it was that my friend, the farmer's wife, could recognise every ewe in the flock.

Liz Morris28:59

But after a while you realize they are, you know, like people. You recognize their faces, you recognize who they are and what they do. Then you start getting anxious about whether they're going to have two lambs, or if they have three lambs, can they feed them.

Liz Morris29:15

And then, of course, the terrible moment comes when you start feeding a lamb yourself, and then you're doomed.

Liz Morris29:23

Yeah.

Presenter29:23

That's it. That's it. That's it. You live for the sheep. Then you live for the sheep. Oh, so what you so you have done that, presumably?

Liz Morris29:27

Yeah.

Presenter29:30

Have any strayed into it? Have you ever taken one into the kitchen, put it in a box, given it a bottle, all that kind of thing? Whoa!

Liz Morris29:37

There is one at this very moment whom the farmer Nat brings into the kitchen. But as his wife remarks, they're not house-trained. So, unfortunately, however sweet they look, you know, you cannot train a lamb to use a cat litter box. As babies in general, what can you do? What can you do?

Speaker 430:00

I feel this war by a shove.

Speaker 430:15

Who is we fall?

Speaker 430:19

It is very

Speaker 430:29

Shabbat is smoke like a shoe.

Presenter30:58

Part of He Shall Feed His Flock from Handel's Messiah, performed by James Bowman, with the Choir of King's College, Cambridge, and the Academy of Saint Martin in the Fields, conducted by David Wilcox.

Presenter31:11

So, Professor Liz Morris, you eventually did get to work at the British Antarctic Survey and became head of the Ice and Climate Division in nineteen eighty six. Was there still opposition then to women working in the field?

Presenter31:26

Uh

Liz Morris31:26

Yes, there was.

Presenter31:26

But

Liz Morris31:27

and in true civil service fashion.

Liz Morris31:31

A committee was set up, but the remit was really to look at all the problems which would occur if and when women went to the Antarctic.

Presenter31:41

What kind of thing? What were they saying would happen?

Liz Morris31:43

Yeah.

Liz Morris31:44

Well, the chair of the committee was a very distinguished biologist who specialised in elephant seals, and at one stage, I have to admit, he did sit me down.

Liz Morris31:56

Look me straight in the eye.

Liz Morris31:58

and say, well, look, Liz, what you have to understand

Liz Morris32:01

is that men are like elephant seals.

Liz Morris32:06

And there was a pause while I looked at him, and he looked at me, and he said.

Liz Morris32:11

They'll fight.

Liz Morris32:13

They'll fight for their harem.

Liz Morris32:17

How did you react? What did you say? I was flabbergasted. I didn't know what to say. I think I probably ended up by saying but I don't think men are like elephant seals.

Liz Morris32:32

My j my job on that committee turned into reassuring everybody that actually in the in the climbing community, for example, which I was part of,

Liz Morris32:44

Nobody would

Liz Morris32:45

be creating a fuss about a man and a woman sharing a tent if they were going climbing together, for example.

Liz Morris32:52

So that there

Liz Morris32:54

Ideas of what was proper were perhaps a little old fashioned.

Presenter32:59

nineteen eighty seven, you became the first British woman to undertake tent based research in Antarctica. You chased that dream for so many years. What was it like when you first arrived on Sydney Island?

Liz Morris33:12

Well, I was in a state of euphoria, as you can well imagine. I was absolutely thrilled and the moment of first setting foot on what could be called the Antarctic, although Sydney is quite far north.

Liz Morris33:28

was going to be a big moment for me.

Liz Morris33:31

And I thought, well, okay, here we go and got my friends set up to take a picture and I was going to pose and, you know, maybe try and look a bit heroic. Look intrepid, yeah. Look intrepid, yeah. Why not? Oh, and I was standing there

Liz Morris33:45

and up marched a smaller daily penguin, and pecked me smartly in the knee.

Liz Morris33:50

At which, of course, I fell over backwards and was lying there in the snow like an upturned beetle.

Presenter33:53

It was

Liz Morris33:57

With my friends all trying not to laugh.

Presenter34:00

Uh

Liz Morris34:00

Yeah.

Presenter34:00

Oh, those penguins

Presenter34:03

In terms of the science, Liz, I mean, a very interesting time to be there as well because the ozone hole discovery was breaking at that point. How did that change the status of Antarctic research?

Presenter34:16

But

Liz Morris34:16

Well, I arrived just after the great paper on the ozone hole had been published, which was nineteen eighty five, but before everything started to come right because the Montreal Protocol, which which

Liz Morris34:31

was basically the international agreement that we had to do something about the ozone hole. And that came in 87, I think, 88.

Liz Morris34:40

The other thing that was going on, of course, and the reason why Ice and Climate was formed, was the fact that we began to realize that Antarctica was going to be very important in the story of climate change. So meteorologists and glaciologists had to get together.

Presenter34:57

So suddenly the eyes of the world are on you and your colleagues to being at the cutting edge, absolutely essential to where science was heading.

Presenter35:06

Yeah.

Liz Morris35:06

Uh

Liz Morris35:08

I think we realised that we would have to do a bit more media work than shy scientists really want to do. So that that became part of a duty. And then I had to do a quick reorganisation of my talks to schools, which had been sort of very soon we'll have a new ice age. I had to alter that because the evidence was coming in, no such luck, there would be no new ice age.

Presenter35:35

And was it frightening to realise what was happening before it was more widely understood?

Liz Morris35:36

And what's it?

Liz Morris35:41

What was frightening was the fact that people would not see the consequences. I mean, our job as scientists was to give early warning.

Liz Morris35:52

of problems that

Liz Morris35:54

that can hit humanity, to put it in a grandiose way. If we can give warning, then people have a chance to do something about it. And when you then see that people are not going to do something about it,

Liz Morris36:07

That gets you a little bit agitated.

Presenter36:09

Yeah.

Liz Morris36:09

Yeah.

Presenter36:10

So has your attitude changed over the years? Have you become more agitated, more militant perhaps, about making the case for climate change? Because there are still people who are resistant to it all these decades later?

Presenter36:22

The yeah.

Liz Morris36:23

Yeah.

Liz Morris36:25

I think I've done what I can, and scientists have done what they can.

Liz Morris36:31

To go to the people who matter, and that's the people in government. And we've played our part in providing the UN with the

Liz Morris36:40

evidence it needs to make very strong

Liz Morris36:43

recommendations and when people now

Liz Morris36:47

Say, well, I don't believe it.

Liz Morris36:49

That's beyond a scientist dealing with. I think you probably

Liz Morris36:54

It's bound May.

Presenter36:56

Liz, let's have your next disc. It's your sixth choice. We've had some glorious pieces so far. What's next?

Liz Morris37:04

Well, what's next is my absolute favourite skiddooing song that we used to play on bass in those early years, you know, getting on your skiddoo and going off on to a field season, leaving everything behind. It's Tom Waits singing Old Fifty Five.

Presenter37:21

I love that. Why is Tom Waits so good for a Skadoo? I feel like he would love being the perfect Skadooing song.

Liz Morris37:27

Well, I mean, you know, a beat up old Cadillac is is much the same as a beat up old Skiddoo. You know, you're fond of it, although you know it has a large number of faults that you're going to spend your most of your field season putting right.

Speaker 437:40

Well, my time went so quickly, I went licked splickly.

Speaker 437:48

Out to my old fifty-five

Speaker 437:54

As I pulled away slowly.

Speaker 437:58

Feeling so holy, God knows I was feeling alive.

Speaker 438:08

Now the sun's coming.

Presenter38:12

Tom Waits, an all 55. I can totally, Liz Morris, hear that on a skidoo. I totally get it, completely. So, Liz, in 2000, you were seconded to the Scott Polar Research Institute as an Arctic Science Advisor. Now, you crossed the Greenland ice sheet eight times between 2004 and 2011, and were in your mid-sixties when you made that last crossing. At that point, most people would be thinking about their retirement, wouldn't they? How was it for you still being out in the field?

Presenter38:45

Well, I still loved it. I still wanted to be there. Did you know that that would be your your last trip?

Liz Morris38:50

The last time you were out there? Uh yes, but it wasn't the last trip to polar regions because there was then and after that, the success of that project, there was another one in the Antarctic, and I had a student who was going down south and who needed to be trained in how to do this work.

Liz Morris39:07

And so I went down to the Antarctic for my last trip to the Antarctic in twenty fourteen. And of course everything was very, very different in one sense because modern buildings and different people.

Liz Morris39:23

One of the very nice things about it was to be able to walk into the bar and find that there was a gang of middle aged ladies sort of propping up the bar and think, Oh, this is nice. This has never happened to me before So yeah, there are a few things there which were really positive and very, very good.

Speaker 439:35

Maybe four.

Presenter39:42

And you mentioned training up younger colleagues, Liz, and I know the the younger people were kind of going with the the very kind of high tech accessories and shoes, but actually you you sort of went the traditional route sometimes, didn't you? Well

Liz Morris39:56

Yeah.

Presenter39:56

Yeah.

Liz Morris39:56

I must admit when I went back to Rothera,

Liz Morris39:59

I

Liz Morris40:00

Got issued with the modern kit, and I thought, I'm going to freeze to death in this, this is no good. So I had my old Antarctic ventile orange cotton sort of overalls and things, which I took. And I had my own mukluks, which were as worn by the Indians in the Arctic and much, much nicer than the sort of Canadian Army mukluks. And is that because they're bendy? It's the foot bendy. It's because the foot bends so that you don't get cold toes because you're always working your foot.

Presenter40:27

A so called man.

Presenter40:33

Mm-hmm.

Liz Morris40:34

So those and and actually they they look quite nice too.

Presenter40:34

Uh

Presenter40:39

That's a good tip.

Presenter40:40

Alright Liz, it's time for your penultimate disc, your seventh choice today. What's next and why?

Liz Morris40:47

Disc seven is Gracia Salavida, sung by Roy Bailey. This is a lovely song in itself. It's a South American folk song.

Liz Morris40:59

But I think it probably, apart from the obvious, that I'm very, very grateful for my life and all the things that I've been able to do.

Liz Morris41:08

It also takes me back to my mother.

Liz Morris41:11

Who was in Spain?

Liz Morris41:12

During the Civil War.

Liz Morris41:14

Rescuing Spanish orphans who were brought back to England to an orphanage here.

Liz Morris41:20

And we never went back to Spain as a family because she couldn't bear it.

Presenter41:25

How did you come to be there? Did you volunteer or did you volunteer? Yes.

Liz Morris41:27

And we could just volunteer, yes.

Liz Morris41:29

But some

Liz Morris41:31

I think now she would be quite proud of where Spain is.

Liz Morris41:35

And it will be a reminder for me on my desert island if I start getting a bit sort of pessimistic, that you might not always see the end result of the things that you do.

Liz Morris41:47

in your life. But they will come.

Liz Morris41:50

And just to keep hoping.

Speaker 441:59

Hey, Mihadado Fando.

Speaker 442:03

Mediudos to Seros

Speaker 442:06

Ecuando la Zabro

Speaker 442:11

Perfecto distingo, Lo O Negro del Blanco.

Speaker 442:17

Y el alto sielo sufondo estrear

Presenter42:23

Roy Bailey and Gratias Alavida.

Presenter42:26

So, Professor Liz Morris, back to the Arctic and Antarctic can be very dangerous work. Have you ever been scared?

Liz Morris42:35

I think the only time was not in the Antarctic, which actually was relatively warm compared to my work in the Arctic. It was a time when we went in very early in the field season to Summit Station in Greenland, which is at quite high altitude as well.

Liz Morris42:51

And the temperatures fell down to minus fifty-eight degrees centigrade.

Liz Morris42:57

And that was a real problem because we actually couldn't light our stove, so we couldn't really maintain life there. So it was very fortunate that we were close enough to base to be able to say, well, no, this is not going to work.

Presenter43:05

So it was very

Liz Morris43:11

And

Liz Morris43:12

We in fact bailed out about two o'clock in the morning and then made it made it back to base. And what does it feel like to be in an environment like that?

Liz Morris43:23

Will

Liz Morris43:24

I myself was was gradually drifting off to sleep.

Liz Morris43:28

and wouldn't have woken up. So that was a fairly pleasant experience, to be honest. Luckily my GA was very worried indeed, and and waking up every thirty seconds, as it were, to say this is it's too cold, it's too cold, it's too cold. And finally we had to make the decision.

Presenter43:40

Hmm.

Liz Morris43:46

To go.

Presenter43:47

As I mentioned in the introduction, Liz, you've got your own glacier. Tell me about it.

Liz Morris43:53

Well, I think I may have seen my glacier as I flew southwards from our base at Rotherha, because it's not far away from the base. And it's in a little corner of the Antarctic, which is named after glaciologists. In fact, it sort of nestles next door to the glacier that belongs to my predecessor in Mass, Charles Swithenbank. So we're in a little corner to ourselves. And I have seen a picture of it because a forces expedition were down there and very kindly sent me a picture that they'd taken, a photograph they'd taken from a nearby ridge. So I do have a picture of what it looks like. How big is it?

Presenter44:13

Yeah.

Presenter44:14

Uh

Liz Morris44:32

Not very big. Not very big. But then I'm not very big either, so.

Presenter44:37

What would you like your legacy to be, the legacy of your work and your life?

Presenter44:43

You're wincing, Les.

Liz Morris44:45

Yeah.

Presenter44:45

Which isn't a good

Liz Morris44:45

I am wincing. I am wincing.

Presenter44:46

Bam

Liz Morris44:49

I think I can see my legacy.

Liz Morris44:52

Already.

Liz Morris44:55

My students, who are now grown-up scientists and are contributing themselves.

Liz Morris45:01

and in the past members of the Ice and Climate Division who have done amazingly well and who are carrying on the work.

Liz Morris45:11

I realized that many of the things that happened to me as a child came back at me during my life and the first time I actually flew a plane.

Liz Morris45:21

in the Antarctic, I couldn't understand why I was suddenly overwhelmed with joy until I remembered, oh yes, when I was a little girl

Liz Morris45:31

This would have been the absolute height of my ambition. All those Biggles books. All those Biggles books.

Presenter45:37

You'll have some new views to enjoy soon, of course, Liz, because I'm casting you away to the desert island. What kind of island are you hoping for? You're a you're a cold climate girl, as we've been hearing. Would you like it to be an Arctic island, an Antarctic island?

Liz Morris45:47

Okay.

Presenter45:52

Yeah.

Liz Morris45:52

I'd prefer an Antarctic island because I do have a bit of the thing about polar bears, so I'd prefer them to be not anywhere near me. Fair enough. And would you be happy?

Liz Morris46:03

I've been happy in most places, Laurence, so I expect I could manage.

Presenter46:08

Well, we'll let you take one more disc with you before we send you off, Professor Liz Morris. It's your eighth choice to day.

Liz Morris46:15

Yeah.

Presenter46:15

What a g

Liz Morris46:15

Gonna be, and why?

Presenter46:17

Yeah.

Liz Morris46:17

Right. Well, just in case there's a bit of lowering of morale on this desert island, I think I'd better have something which is absolutely guaranteed to bring you from the depths, which are acknowledged, up to a bit of action.

Presenter46:32

Oh yeah.

Liz Morris46:33

So it's uh the transition from the third to the fourth movement, Beethoven's Fifth Symphony.

Presenter47:39

The transition between the third and fourth movements of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, performed by the Tornhalle Orchestra Zurich, conducted by David Zinnman. Professor Liz Morris, it's time to cast you away. I'm going to give you the books. You can have the complete works of Shakspere and the Bible, and you can take one other. What's that going to be?

Liz Morris48:00

Well, I have a great devotion to Dr Johnson, so I would like one of the many, many volumes of his collected works, and I'm not going to be greedy. I just want one which contains his contributions to the idler and the adventurer.

Liz Morris48:16

I think he would have been an absolutely wonderful podcaster if he'd been alive today. Absolutely. But this is the nearest to your.

Presenter48:20

Yeah.

Presenter48:21

Absolutely.

Liz Morris48:24

Your daily podcast, and I would be able to just settle down. And again, I think it would be.

Liz Morris48:31

Terrific for morale to have that sort of rumbling Sergeant Major voice telling you how you should behave.

Presenter48:39

Absolutely, it's yours. What luxury would make life on your island a little bit more bearable for you?

Presenter48:45

Well, I'm going to ask for a pair of new mugs.

Liz Morris48:47

Mountain boots.

Presenter48:48

Now bear in mind, this is desert island discs, so you can have any boots you like. Give me all the spec. What do you want? What are we talking here? Oh. I won't ask what colour,'cause that might be a bit of a girly question, to use your word from earlier. But but what's the vibe?

Liz Morris49:02

Uh well, I would like leather boots with vibrum soles and uh

Liz Morris49:08

A broad fitting for the square English foot.

Liz Morris49:13

Outside

Presenter49:15

Size thirty seven. They are yours. And finally, if you could only have one of these eight disks, which would you save from the waves first?

Presenter49:26

Well, I think I'd have Tom Waits.

Presenter49:28

Spice kidoo song. It's got to be done. Professor Liz Morris, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs.

Liz Morris49:35

Thank you, Lauren.

Presenter49:50

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Liz, and I certainly hope those special walk-in boots stand up to island life. She didn't tell me what colour they needed to be, though. We've cast away many polar experts, including Professor Dame Jane Francis, Ben Saunders, and the Explorer Ann Daniels. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the charity CEO, Paul Farmer.

Speaker 350:35

Silence in Court. I'm Lucy Worsley and in my brand new series, I'll be hearing about the women involved in some of history's most infamous legal battles. Women accused of murder, bigamy, and adultery, through to the shocking offence of not knowing their place.

Speaker 350:54

With a team of all female detectives, I'll explore the lives at the center of some extraordinary courtroom dramas, asking, has the justice system truly changed? Lady on Trial with Lucy Worsley from BBC Radio 4. Listen now on BBC Sounds.