Anna Maxwell Martin

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:35

My castaway this week is the actor Anna Maxwell Martin. Her Stella CV includes everything from Shakespeare and Dickens to the line of duty via the comedy series Motherland. She's an Emmy and double BAFTA winner who's been called the most untypecast actress in Britain, equally at home in gritty dramas like ITV's Until I Kill You, as she is in crowd-pleasing crime like the BBC's Ludwig. She set her heart on performing when she was just a little girl, growing up in Yorkshire. Her scientist parents were, she says, bemused, but backed her all the way, driving her to singing contests where she belted out Whitney Houston songs to get a taste of being on stage. In recent years, she's also become a campaigner, speaking up for vulnerable children and families navigating the send system. Her advocacy is informed by experience, the sudden loss of her children's father, and her own difficulties in finding the right support for her two girls in the wake of his death. She says, Whether I'm on a set or in a rehearsal room, my priorities are being a mum and meeting the needs of my kids. They are my favourite people. I laugh every single day with them. I feel grateful to have them over and above anything that will ever happen in my career. Anna Maxwell Martin, welcome to Desert Islandists.

Presenter1:49

I want to retract everything I said there about the children.

Presenter1:53

It's been one of those days. I regret all of that. Well, we've got lots to talk about Anna today. But I think we should start we should start with your work and that idea of you being the least typecast actor in Britain. I mean, twenty five years in the game, how have you managed it?

Presenter2:08

I think uh you have to say no a lot because what happens is you do get offered the same thing over and over.

Presenter2:15

And and so you have to be willing to sit at home and just say no and say, Oh, I've done that, I don't want to do it again. But it's not I don't think it's about boredom. It's also partly to do with ambition and also um the people I looked up to and the type of actor I want to be and my

Presenter2:34

My interest in the profession. I just want to do all the things. Julie Walter's big heroine of yours. Massive. She is my apex predator. Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin2:39

Mass

Anna Maxwell Martin2:42

Yeah.

Presenter2:43

She wo I worked with Julie, which was

Presenter2:47

Brilliant. We had to sort of enter a scene. Sweet Anne Hathaway was in the scene and she was focused and she was concentrating and, you know, Julie and I were giggling off and then we got told off. But I yeah, she she has always been my hero because Julie has done exactly that. She's always played all the things and she's incredible. And I think also she influenced a lot of how I work, I think. I think people think, well, I think they think I sort of.

Anna Maxwell Martin3:15

He will think

Presenter3:17

muck around and I don't take it very seriously. But it's not that at all. It's that I do all the work and I prepare and I research and I I think I feel I know my character better than

Presenter3:29

anybody when I get onto the set. But then

Presenter3:32

I want to let go of all that and just listen, and also, most of all, just have a nice day. And I think that's what I saw Julie doing. So you're quite rigorous, but you have said that, you know, improv is the best training for actors. God, comedy improv is without a doubt. It's terrifying. You're standing with a crew that are literally, you know, the boom ops just standing there and he hasn't laughed once. And you think, oh, well, I'll just plow on. They'll find something in the edit. So it's totally humiliating. I think it's a really good training for just give it a go, just keep trying. Don't get locked in by ideas or who you think you are or bogged down by thinking. Just do doing. Just do it. So you like being in the moment on set and just, you know, sort of playing really. How are you afterwards at appraising your performances? Are you someone who kind of looks back reviews and judges? I always always, most of the time, think I'm brilliant.

Anna Maxwell Martin4:23

Uh

Speaker 24:23

Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin4:23

Voice

Presenter4:32

I look, I'm really proud of myself. Don't you have to be? You have to champion yourself. I'm not going to go around at my age sort of.

Presenter4:40

Feeling really down on myself. I look back, I think, oh, I'm really proud of what I've achieved and I strive to be better. And I don't, and it, you know, when people make a meal of it or make it sound difficult, I want to say,

Presenter4:54

It's it's not. We get driven to well, actually, my daughter, my youngest daughter, put it really well. When she was at school once, somebody said to her, Oh, what does your mummy do for a job? and she said, Oh,

Presenter5:05

A man comes to the house early in the morning and picks her up in a car and then takes her to a car park and then she goes into a caravan and takes all her clothes off.

Presenter5:16

So that is my job. I'm not a paramedic. I don't work at the NHS. I'm not a teacher or a TA. It's quite good. And then, invariably, as an actor, you have a laugh all day.

Speaker 35:16

Uh

Anna Maxwell Martin5:18

I'm

Anna Maxwell Martin5:19

Uh

Presenter5:27

Well, let's get started. Tell us about your first.

Presenter5:30

My first song is I Love Taboogie by T-Rex, and I have chosen that because I really did want a recording of Julie Walters singing as Mrs. Overall, but that wasn't possible. And so I want to celebrate the Acorn Antiques Opera, which I went to see when I was about 14 or something like that. She takes off the overall and then there's another overall underneath, and she's wafting around the tray, it's all stuck to the tray. Absolutely. I mean, honestly, she's amazing. But anyway, this is for Julie really and her dancing around so brilliantly in Billie Elliott.

Anna Maxwell Martin5:45

From the A.

Anna Maxwell Martin5:47

Which

Anna Maxwell Martin5:48

But

Anna Maxwell Martin5:50

When she takes off the oak roll and then there's another oak roller

Anna Maxwell Martin5:55

Absolutely.

Speaker 36:04

Two.

Speaker 36:07

Okay.

Speaker 36:12

Look at the boogie.

Speaker 36:14

We love to boogie on Saturday night

Speaker 36:19

Belinda Mayfina's got a cadillac on Jamie Lawson Cherry walking all the way home The passion of the earth blasted his mind Now Needsweep ready for the moon-based climb We love to forget

Speaker 36:33

We love

Presenter6:34

I Love to Boogie by T. Rex, which featured in the film Billy Elliott, starring Julie Walters. Anna Maxwell Martin, you were born in Beverley, East Yorkshire, in nineteen seventy seven, little sister to Adam. Your mum Rosalind is Scottish and your dad Ivan was from Northern Ireland. So how did they meet?

Presenter6:52

At church?

Presenter6:54

At a church, sort of, I want to say youth group, but they weren't, yes, guess they were semi-youths.

Presenter7:03

They'd both come down to London, so dad was a post grad and mum had come down she'd come down from Aberdeen.

Presenter7:12

She was working, I think, at that point in Guy's hospital, and she was living at the I may have I may have got lots of this wrong, but she was living at the YMCA or the equivalent for ladies. And you don't know anyone, do you? So they both went along to the church in Chelsea, which was a Scottish Presbyterian.

Anna Maxwell Martin7:14

Yeah.

Presenter7:32

Church, and they met there. Yeah. And and both scientists, so would have had a lot in common.

Presenter7:37

Yeah, faith and science. Hey, what a hotchpotch.

Speaker 27:39

Yeah.

Presenter7:42

So tell me a bit more about them, your mum first. What what what what did she area did she work in? What was her special? She was sort of in research and actually what she really wanted to do was be a sort of a forensic pathologist. But that wasn't really possible at that time. But she would have been absolutely brilliant. Yeah, she's quite amazing, my mum. Very, very practical, very together. She's got a really good sense of humour. You can be really silly with my mum.

Speaker 27:48

The she was

Anna Maxwell Martin7:54

Yeah.

Presenter8:10

Yeah.

Presenter8:11

And your dad, Ivan, was managing director of a pharmaceutical company by the time you came along and were growing up. When you think about it, what what comes to mind?

Presenter8:21

He's like the for me, it's like m the spine that holds you up, is my dad. I feel he's shaped so much about how I approach the world, my thinking, how I contribute to life. Say the world then. Make myself sound like the Dalai Lama.

Presenter8:41

I just want to clarify I'm not contributing to the world. But how I contribute, let's leave it there. And when I think about work and doing well in my career, I think that my mum and dad together, definitely as parents, and so very much my dad, never ever questioned it. They never questioned the choice. They never said, you know, it's very impactful on a child when you say, well, why do you want to do that? They never even said that. Because there's a negative saying, why do you want to do that? You just do. You said he was your greatest cheerleader. He was absolutely. Yeah. And that cheerleader, although I lost my dad at 24, I feel exceptionally grateful I had 24 years. And I feel like that amount of unequivocal cheerleading.

Presenter9:34

Just filled up the tank and then I and I and it sustained me throughout my life. Yeah. But so, like, were you the kind of kid who would put on plays? Were you kind of getting the family to sit down and watch you perform? Oh, constantly. We lived in a cul-de-sac and all the kids got together. My brother and I used to love makeup songs. That's all I wanted to do. So I did lots of plays at primary school.

Speaker 29:45

Sit down and watch you prefer.

Presenter9:57

And then, yeah, I got to secondary and then I would do drama and singing outside of school. And I had a l I was in a little singing troupe. But then I started doing singing competitions as well. So how did that go? It went well until the final hurdle. So I sang a song called London is London, dressed as a pearly queen, and I got to the London final.

Presenter10:20

Was it in the accent? London is London. Oh yeah.

Presenter10:27

And I was picked at the post, didn't make it to gold. Yes, oh gosh, I remember her. Who was it? What did she di what did she have that you did? She sang opera. I thought you should be in a different competition, love. This is a competition for your basic singer.

Anna Maxwell Martin10:30

Yeah.

Presenter10:45

Are you opera singer?

Presenter10:46

Let's have some more music, Anna Maxwell Martin. Your second choice today. What's it going to be? Well, my second choice is The Greatest Love of All by Whitney Houston. And this is a song that The Troop I'll call them The Troop. That was not the name. What was the name? That we used to no, it didn't have a name.

Speaker 210:59

What's the name?

Anna Maxwell Martin11:00

Uh

Presenter11:03

Anyway, it's the greatest love of all. Love the lyrics, stand by them all. I remember once we went on a holiday to Tossa in Spain on a coach, from Beverly to Tossa, and I can tell you that's a long, long coach ride. You weren't allowed to do a number two on the coach, only a number one. So I think most people left that trip with bowel problems.

Presenter11:22

And I remember I just played Whitney Houston, my Whitney Houston tape on my Walkman endlessly. I loved Whitney so much.

Speaker 311:32

I decided long ago never to walk in anyone's shadows. If I fail, if I succeed, at least I live in life believe. No matter what they take from me, they can't take away my dignity because of bread.

Presenter11:58

Whitney Houston and the greatest love of all. Anna Maxwell Martin, you've said that when you were little, you were a dweeb and a happy weirdo.

Presenter12:07

What did you mean by that? Do you remember? Stand by it? Yeah, duh had a patch.

Speaker 212:07

What did you mean by that?

Presenter12:11

I had an eye patch. My dad cut my hair with, you know, the bowl. I mean, we all had that, didn't we? The bowl cut, yeah. Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin12:12

An iPad?

Presenter12:19

And uh I was such a happy dweeb. Yep.

Presenter12:23

You have described yourself as a drama queen as well. How did that play out, in what way?

Presenter12:29

I was feeling things very intensely. I was pretty anxious, but at the same time, very driven. You know, I really loved doing what I was doing, and I just wanted to do all the things. You know, like, well, my dad made me play the cello, but I did want to. So I played the cellos in all the orchestras, the choirs, I was doing my drama. It's all I thought about. I didn't.

Anna Maxwell Martin12:50

I didn't

Presenter12:52

That's just all I wanted. It was all performing and you know the artist. I don't know if it was performing.

Anna Maxwell Martin12:53

As

Anna Maxwell Martin12:55

Yeah.

Presenter12:57

I don't think of it as performing because I think I'm quite shy. I think it was sort of.

Anna Maxwell Martin12:59

It's performing like

Anna Maxwell Martin13:02

Uh

Presenter13:05

I don't know it it

Presenter13:06

Escaping a bit, or I think I felt um.

Presenter13:11

And then this went through my 20s, and then after my dad died, really chronically. But I think, even as a young kid, we left this cul-de-sac I grew up in, and it was.

Presenter13:21

Like Nirvana, you know, I'm pretty sure that song, all Nirvana songs were written about Mike Oldessac because it was heaven. And when we moved, I f I remember feeling quite lonely quite a lot of the time. So you moved into Beverly Town, having grown up just outside? Yes, mother said announced that she didn't want to give us lifts anywhere. So we moved into town. Tell me about school. How did you get on at school?

Anna Maxwell Martin13:34

So you mean

Presenter13:45

I loved school. I loved doing work. I loved achieving.

Presenter13:51

I used to ask for extra homework. I was that horrible, kid. Were you picked on?

Presenter13:57

No. And if I had been, I wouldn't have noticed, Lauren. Honestly, I I I just always I've been quite always quite good at just uh quite resilient at getting on with things.

Speaker 314:06

Yeah.

Presenter14:07

Yeah. You've said before that you were pretty grateful for who you were as a kid. Tell me what you meant by that.

Presenter14:15

Uh I think

Presenter14:17

As I say, I was quite resilient. I had a good sense of self. And it seems like I it you know, I that I can see there's this picture. I'm quite an intense person, but I am a bit of a fish swimming round the bowl. So I think I think feel things deeply and then I just move on and forget. I can't retain any information. So

Presenter14:35

I think that's sort of always helped me to sort of shape, shift and move on and and um I I don't really navel gaze or anything like that. I I think I h have an outward looking disposition.

Presenter14:49

Alright Anna, let's have some more music. It's your third choice today. What have you gone for?

Presenter14:54

Oh, Together in Electric Dreams by Phil Oakey and Giorgio Moroda. And I've chosen that because it's really about friendship. And I have an amazing, wonderful, life-affirming group of friends from university. We have been through so many things together. They have got me through so many things. And I hope and feel I've contributed positively to their lives.

Presenter15:20

And recently I have an exceptional friend I made when our children were young. She's just battled cancer. It was a difficult couple of years and I watched her handle that with such grace and aplomb and humour. But I remember after that long road, we were at the garden centre. And despite cancer, she's always been an exceptionally mentally and physically strong person.

Speaker 315:48

Uh Yeah.

Presenter15:49

And we went to the garden centre and we got near the those big bags of compost. And they're heavy, aren't they? Yeah. Should come over here, come over here.

Presenter15:58

Try and lift this compost, deadlift this compost. Come on. I said, I can't, you know I can't do it.

Presenter16:04

Of course, I picked it up, Laura, and I just couldn't get it above the shoulder. I couldn't. I went, Rach, it's not possible. And of course, she turns around, she just battled cancer, she just flings it in the air above her head. And I looked at that in that moment with the bag of compost floating over perilously over her head, and I thought, I love you so much. I do. I just thought, I love you so much. Everything you stand for, everything you've been through, and you're still flinging compost around. And this is for her. It's for all my friends and her, yeah.

Speaker 316:37

I only knew you for a while. I never saw your smile till it was time to go.

Speaker 316:47

Time to go away

Speaker 316:52

Sometimes it's hard to recognize.

Speaker 316:56

Come to Jose Supride and it's too late

Presenter17:06

Together in Electric Dreams, Phil Okey and Giorgio Moroda. Anna Maxwell Martin, you graduated from Lambda in 2001 and within just a few months you were at the Don Mar Warehouse in The Little Foxes, directed by Marianne Elliott and starring Penelope Wilton. That must have felt very special. Yeah, it was like a dream come true. I can't tell you. I've never taken it for granted. And luckily my dad saw that show. He died just after the day after the last night that we finished that show. Yeah, so he actually did see me working. What did it mean to have a drink? Well, he'd seen plays and things at university. Professionally, I mean.

Anna Maxwell Martin17:40

What he'd seen

Anna Maxwell Martin17:42

Professionally, I mean

Presenter17:44

Um

Presenter17:45

I I think I did definitely think fewe that he's seen something and I'm not just a layabout have actually been employed. He could see the beginning for you. Yeah. He would have always had faith that it was going to happen. He would never have doubted it. Like, just no way.

Anna Maxwell Martin17:50

But

Speaker 317:50

And

Anna Maxwell Martin17:50

Uh

Anna Maxwell Martin17:51

Yeah.

Speaker 317:51

Saf.

Anna Maxwell Martin17:56

Yeah.

Presenter18:02

No way.

Presenter18:03

So he he died the the night after your final show of the run. Yes. And he was staying with you and your brother, wasn't he? Yes, he was, yeah. He'd been really poorly, but I was very in denial about that. I think I was probably a pretty selfish twenty year old. And um

Speaker 218:09

Uh

Anna Maxwell Martin18:09

Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin18:10

But

Presenter18:18

I hadn't fully engaged with that. Maybe I couldn't or I didn't want to. But we'd had a really nice day the day before. I was rehearsing another play in the day, actually, whilst I was doing the Don Mar thing in the evening, and he was

Presenter18:30

testing on my lines and he'd really put his shoulder to the wheel on that, you know, like he'd do all the parts and do all the voices. Um oh, he was just lovely, my dad. And then um

Presenter18:45

Yeah, then and then the and then he i it just all went wrong. So you'd heard him ill in the night and then was it went into the bathroom and he was there? Yeah, I went to say goodbye. I'd been up a couple of times. Um

Speaker 218:53

Yeah.

Presenter18:58

He wasn't very well and I I I thought I knew all about that. I thought I I knew all about how to help him'cause I'd had food poisoning for the first time on on the job and someone had given me you know, you don't know anything when you're young, do you? Someone had given me pepto this thing called Peptobismol.

Presenter19:13

um miracle worker and I I tried to offer daddy some of that and that w that wasn't gonna cut the mustard'cause he was having a really big brain bleed by then. And then, yeah, it just all unfolded. It was like a horror, really. And um I didn't process that

Anna Maxwell Martin19:23

Uh

Speaker 319:23

Hmm.

Presenter19:32

I wasn't allowed to and I didn't process that for a long, long time, years and years and years. You were diagnosed with PTSD. Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin19:39

Yeah, it's great.

Anna Maxwell Martin19:41

Yeah.

Presenter19:42

So why why my late thirties? You said you couldn't, you weren't allowed to process it. Why not? What was.

Anna Maxwell Martin19:42

My favorite.

Anna Maxwell Martin19:44

You said

Presenter19:48

There's a just a culture of not talking about it within my family, but also not out of malice or any bad bad intention at all. There's a lot of love in my family. It's just.

Anna Maxwell Martin19:49

There's a job

Presenter19:59

These things are very difficult for people to deal with and you you have to appreciate that and have kindness for that. And I also was very young and nobody I was very aware that no one wants a Debbie Downer around, but I I felt chronically alone.

Speaker 320:18

Yeah.

Presenter20:19

Processing grief and death.

Presenter20:23

And trauma is very, very difficult.

Presenter20:27

And it is just a road you sort of have to trudge down.

Presenter20:31

And when you think about your dad now, uh how do you remember him? As has the way that you remember him changed?

Presenter20:38

But there were lots of things I couldn't remember.

Presenter20:41

And now I do. It's a bit like the the clouds clearing.

Presenter20:45

Because you're not swamped with overwhelm. Um just then I did a tiny bit. Did you see? I nearly kind of went but it but I can sort of handle it and I can hear him see him.

Presenter21:00

And I think for a long time in that wilderness, I just couldn't. It's too frightening to go near the feeling because you're worried about how intense it's going to be. Yeah, and what happened to him and what that experience was like of him dying, which was not a good death. But, you know, overwhelmingly, I really feel.

Anna Maxwell Martin21:07

Oh, intense.

Anna Maxwell Martin21:13

Think of him dying.

Presenter21:21

so overjoyed that I had such a loving and s supportive dad. So I f I feel inordinately lucky.

Presenter21:31

Anna, let's have some more music. What's next? Oh, it's Puccini's Omeo Babino Caro, which means to my beloved father, and it's um Maria Calla singing it. We did play it at my dad's funeral, but it's also that um when I thought about acting when I was young, a film I watched over and over again, and it was I was thinking I just want to be in a film like that.

Presenter21:54

was Room with a View and this is played in Room with a View.

Presenter21:59

I don't know if you know the scene, but it's when they kiss in a poppy field and it's so romantic. Oh my God, it's so romantic. And I also think, oh, I'd love something like that to happen to me.

Presenter22:12

Simply like grab grabbed and manhandled in the feet.

Presenter22:18

Um and I and I just wanted to be in films like that and I l I I love this song, it's beautiful and and it reminds me of my dad.

Speaker 323:10

We are Lord. The CC, the Jebo on Lord.

Presenter23:33

Part of Puccini's O Mio Babino Caro, performed by Maria Callas, with the Philharmonia Orchestra, conducted by Tullio Serafin.

Presenter23:41

Anna Maxwell Martin, while you were experiencing that private grief, your professional life was taking off. Just months after leaving drama school, you appeared in the Tom Stoppard trilogy, The Coast of Utopia, at the National Theatre. How did you navigate that professional success while also coming to terms with what you were going through?

Presenter24:03

Uh well, I you know, the overriding feeling was like, Yes, I've got here. I used to stand on the bridge outside the National and think I want to be in there one day. But yeah, it was difficult. I was dealing with like a bit of I wouldn't it's quite extreme to say agorphobia, but a little bit of that.

Speaker 324:22

Mm-hmm.

Presenter24:23

And some anxiety, but I felt lucky to be there. And then the National was very good to me. They are, you know, they're very loyal to you if you work hard for them. And I stayed there and I did, I think, four productions there. Met Roger there. I did his dark materials there with Nick Heitner, which was an incredible production to be part of. So all of these things are absolutely supercharging your career and changing your life. You mentioned meeting Roger Michel, who directed the film Notting Hill. He auditioned you for a play called Honour.

Speaker 224:45

So

Presenter24:57

The two of you quickly fell in love. What drew you to him? What do you remember about meeting him?

Presenter25:02

Oh no, really? I don't know if we quickly fell in love, but what did happen is that I walked in the room.

Presenter25:08

I don't know. Roger just had a vibe. He just had a vibe. I just, I left the room and I thought, oh, I love him. I mean, I don't mean romantically. I mean, I just.

Presenter25:18

I don't know, Roger had like a silent strength. It just made him such a good director, such a good dad. And it was that. I just thought, Oh, who is he? And then we started doing rehearsing the play. And Roger was also a very sweet person and um

Presenter25:38

Also like, you know.

Presenter25:41

One thing I love about Roger, he never tried to be cool or anything. There are people in our industry that try to be cool or whatever. Roger would come in in his Anorak and he'd have his hold-all.

Presenter25:50

like a holdall bag. And then he'd get his Tupperware out and he would have made his lunch and he and then he'd take his lunch out and then he he'd hang his holdall bag on a special hook. We'd hold it the whole we'd call it the holdall hook.

Presenter26:03

And you could have a real laugh with him. He was really daft and silly.

Presenter26:07

And he was a special person. So there was quite an age gap between the two of you, wasn't there? He was 48, you were 26 when you first met. Yes.

Presenter26:19

Yeah, I mean the age gap is s is something in hindsight. I

Presenter26:25

I I didn't ever f feel like we had an age gap, but of c of course it I don't know, it it does become self-evident and yeah. I d I don't know, it's difficult to talk about that really, I think. Okay, if I'm being honest. I mean, I miss him.

Anna Maxwell Martin26:37

Uh

Speaker 326:37

Uh

Anna Maxwell Martin26:38

Okay.

Presenter26:41

Yeah, of course.

Anna Maxwell Martin26:41

Books.

Presenter26:42

Two thousand three was professionally a hugely successful year for you. You got rave reviews for your starring role in Histark Materials at the National Theatre. A year later, you won your first BAFTA playing Esther Summerson in the BBC's Bleak House. Were you able to enjoy those successes at the time?

Presenter27:04

Oh no, I don't think I did, not really. God, I've never been asked that. I'd

Presenter27:10

No. I was worried about the next thing. And I think I was quite aware that I was holding myself back, because I'm not very outwardly ambitious. I'm quite shy. I wouldn't be able to go into a room and approach a director and say, Hey, I'm so and so. Here I am. I know you. I know all your work. I know your entire oof. Give me a job. I couldn't

Presenter27:29

do that. Yeah, walking into rooms is pretty daunting. At the beginning of my career, I'd think the r the the the initi the first day, the first day of doughnuts and meet and greet, I'd be on the tube and I'd think, Oh, God, I'll just say I'm ill today and I'll go in tomorrow when we're doing the actual work.

Anna Maxwell Martin27:46

I will want to

Presenter27:46

I wouldn't want to do the doughnuts and the meet and greet. I'd be just feel too shy.

Presenter27:50

Let's have some more music, Anna. It's your fifth choice today. What's it gonna be?

Presenter27:55

You know, grief is a form of heartbreak, and then there's heartbreak, isn't there? Romantic heartbreak. When I think about it when I was young, you know, it is such a

Presenter28:06

monumentous and shaping moment, how you come through it, how you come through it with humility. But at the time, you humiliate yourself so much, don't you? You really do. You make an absolute donkey of yourself.

Presenter28:25

And did you? Oh, God, I did. Yeah, I've been heartbroken a couple of times. And I think.

Presenter28:31

Yeah, a completely

Presenter28:33

Humiliating, prostrating yourself in desperation. I mean, an absolute dork. And so I really wanted to include a song about heartbreak because it really shapes you, doesn't it? And so a song I loved, and I really loved the album, but a song that reminded me of a particularly difficult heartbreak in my 20s was Dry Your Eyes by the Streets.

Anna Maxwell Martin28:56

Please let me show you where we could only just be for us I can change and I can grow or we could adjust The wicked thing about us is we always have trust We can even have an open relationship if you must I look at her, she stares almost straight back at me But her eyes glaze over like she's looking straight through me Then her eyes must have closed for what seems an eternity When they open up she's looking down at her feet

Anna Maxwell Martin29:20

Try your eye

Speaker 329:20

Are you right, mate?

Speaker 329:22

I know it's hard to take but her mind has been made up.

Presenter29:27

The Streets and Dry Your Eyes.

Presenter29:31

Anna Maxwell Martin, you've said that when you started out in acting you were very earnest and took things quite seriously. How did that work out?

Presenter29:40

Not well.

Presenter29:43

No, you've got to lose that pretty quick. I probably didn't lose it quick enough. I just wanted to take the work really seriously. And then as you go on in your chosen career, maybe you just can relax into it a bit more. And what was it that helped you relax? Was it just a matter of time or? Well, I had children. And then I really couldn't be thinking about much other than the children and the timetable and the logistics of it all. And so I still worked as hard in prep, but then I was just, yeah, just running onto a set and getting on with it. Didn't get bogged down with it. It was really releasing, actually. And then about that time, I started doing comedy as well. And that was. Well, exactly. This all brings us to motherland. And I think that that kind of overstuffed schedule and that no-nonsense attitude really helped when you auditioned for the show in 2016. Take me back to that moment. What happened? Oh, yeah, I was horrible. It was really horrible. I'd hit a real nadir. I'd won a few awards and people started saying, oh, I don't audition anymore. And I was thinking, well, I do.

Presenter30:44

So, I actually don't mind auditioning. I like to. I'd much rather do that than have a chat.

Presenter30:50

But anyway, I don't know. I was in a bit of a I was just juggling a lot and my age of family said, Will you audition for this? I said, Well, do I have to audition? I've heard other people aren't auditioning. They're just getting getting offered things. And he said, Yeah, no, you do. Well, I think he was thinking, Well, you've never done any comedy. What are you smoking? Of course you're going to go in and audition.

Presenter31:10

And he was very patient with me, Sam. Bless him.

Presenter31:14

So I went, Fine, fine, I'll go in. I went in and signed in. The tears started to spring into my eyes crossness and sadness.

Presenter31:23

Think why am I having to do it? I'm just so sick of it all. I've been trying so you know, oh very god. I mean.

Presenter31:30

Get a grip, get a grip, get on the ship. And then I went into the room and I was pretty cross in the room. And Graeme and Ham was like, Oh, you know, would you like to read? And I was like, Yes, I'll read whatever you want. And I was pretty terse. And then, but it helped. I mean, look, you know, Julia was a stressed-out Mary, wasn't she? And then they phoned back up and said, Oh, we do like her. I said, Good. Is it an offer? They said, Well, actually, they'd like to meet you again. I went, Nope, nope.

Presenter31:57

Why do they want to meet me again? He went, They'd like to meet you again because they're a bit scared of you.

Presenter32:02

Anyway, I was mortified, obviously. I was absolutely horrified at my horrible behaviour, and I got on set and I apologised profusely.

Presenter32:10

You and Roger separated in twenty twenty, Anna, and the following year he died suddenly from a heart attack. He was sixty five. You'd stayed on good terms with him, even though you'd separated. You'd just appeared in his final film, The Duke.

Presenter32:24

What was that awful period like for you and your family?

Presenter32:29

You know, there was a lot that was difficult and there's a there's a lot now that springs up that's difficult. I can do well as a mum. I think I'm I think I do okay as a mum.

Presenter32:41

There's just things that Roger did better than me. There's things that he did that I can't do. The things that girl the girls need from him and he's not here.

Presenter32:50

And grief is really exhausting and taxing and difficult. Well, and it's it's multi-dimensional, isn't it? Because there's the emotional aspect of it, but then there's practical, financial concerns. It's like all of these things. Yeah, and I think so often for the adult, not for my children, but as the adult, in the initial stages, the practical dominates because you are only thinking, well, they're gone, so you've got to make a living, pay the bills, support your family. I'm not going to over-egg that because we were in a very fortunate position, and my children and I are very privileged in the position we're in. But that's something, of course, it's incredibly difficult for my children. Nobody has their lived experience that they know. And so that's really hard for me to watch, but even harder for them to live. But saying that, their ability to find joy and silliness in life is off the chain.

Anna Maxwell Martin33:05

Yeah, I think often.

Presenter33:48

Really. Even when they're low and sad, you know, they're laughing or making up a joke or they're d dead daft, the girls. You know, they have a laugh at themselves, at me, at our familial situation. They are amazing.

Presenter34:04

Let's have some music, Anna Maxwell Martin, your sixth choice. What's next and why? Oh, this is a hymn. This is my favourite hymn. We have to play quite a slow version of this hymn, because it's a hymn, and so they do sing them quite slowly, don't they, in churches? Which is a shame, because I would sing this song at triple speed.

Presenter34:24

Because I think it's a very jolly hymn. It's called When a Knight Won His Spurs, and it reminds me of a really, really joyful times with Roger. I used to sing this hymn to him a lot. I don't think he was hugely pleased about that. I think he found it quite grating.

Presenter34:41

But we we had some really wonderful times and we were in a second hand bookshop in Suffolk, which was a really happy place for us. And I found this hymn book with my favorite hymn in. And so I sang it to Roger over and over again in the car.

Speaker 334:55

Life promise was in the store is old.

Speaker 335:02

He was gentle and prayed for He was silent and faithful.

Speaker 335:28

No charger am I, And no sword by thy side.

Speaker 335:36

And still to love and joy.

Speaker 335:48

They have the giants have a friend.

Speaker 335:53

Have a nice

Presenter35:56

When a Knight Won His Spurs performed by the choir of Salisbury Cathedral with the organist John Challenger, directed by David Halls. Lovely Anna Maxwell Martin, if a bit slow. Bless them They did it well. God I'm not dissing them. But I could sing it better.

Presenter36:12

Anna over the past.

Presenter36:17

Bring me my Naila. Here I go. Anna, over the past few years, you've been a very vocal advocate for children and families, especially those navigating the Send Special Educational Needs and or Disabilities system in schools. What's made you so passionate about those issues?

Presenter36:34

Um, I think because um after Roger, trying to get the girls' needs met in the education system was especially for my younger one, really for my younger one, was exceptionally difficult. Um head banging, mental making.

Presenter36:50

Exhausting, soul-destroying. I don't use those terms lightly. It just, that is what it is. And it's no one's fault. And we came across wonderful caregivers in the school setting. I mean, my older daughter had that covered. She had exceptional people around her. But for my younger daughter, it was a different story and terribly degrading meetings where only one that my youngest attended, which was exceptionally heartbreaking and humiliating for her. And I thought. Why was it humiliating?

Speaker 237:23

Yeah.

Presenter37:25

Because there was a suggestion made of exclusion, which means leaving the school. And exclusion is something I will battle against forever, and it is something I want banned from schools, because it affects our most vulnerable children in the worst ways. There must be a a a different mode or keeping them

Presenter37:46

involved, just in a safe setting. And I accept always that it's so difficult. I'm not a teacher or a TA. They are the most difficult jobs, undervalued, underpaid. I wish we had more TAs. They are exceptional. Teaching assistance.

Anna Maxwell Martin37:59

Teaching assistants.

Presenter38:01

And I'm in a really privileged position. So if you're not, wow, the struggle is extra difficult. I mean, for me, it's not about send, which is special educational needs. It is about

Presenter38:15

meeting all children's needs at the point of need. This is my dream and I know people sort of, you know, I get trolled a lot for being ignorant about these things and I don't work in an education setting and it is so difficult. But of course the idea would be that all our children feel valued and feel seen and that we don't have our thousands of children othered and excluded from school and written off.

Presenter38:43

I'd love to one day retrain as a TA. I'd love to mentor young people. They probably wouldn't want me, but if they did, I'd love to do something much more practical. It for me, it would feel like it had, yeah, much more value. You mentioned the trolling that you've experienced. How do you deal with that?

Presenter39:02

Don't care. You can choose to read it or not read it, take it on, not take it on.

Presenter39:07

Um if you have it on Instagram or whatever. Do you read it? Do you look at it? Do you No, not really. And I'm not trolled very much. But I think if you're looking for approval on Instagram I'm on Instagram. So there's a level where I'm looking for approval. Then you have to accept that there's a negative side of that. You can't be crying about that.

Speaker 239:08

How do you deal with the yawning

Speaker 239:11

The

Presenter39:27

It's time for disc number seven. What are we going to hear? Oh, it's Ain't No Mountain High Enough by Marvin Gaye because my kids play this in the car a lot. This wasn't a song I played, this is a song that girls play. So they obviously find it really uplifting. And the song Michelle O'Barma said to her children, she said, I always say to my children.

Presenter39:47

Just come home. We like you here.

Presenter39:50

Not even love, we like you here. Just come home, come to me.

Presenter39:56

And I'm telling you now, and the years I've had in the wilderness with grief and loneliness, I will never allow my children to feel like that. Never, ever, ever. And this song says, you know, wherever you are, wherever I am,

Presenter40:12

Mind you, I'm about to go on a desert island, so I will be cut off from so actually this song doesn't

Presenter40:18

Just realize the irony. They won't be able to get a swim back.

Anna Maxwell Martin40:20

It's a big sweet.

Presenter40:22

But but yeah, I I want them to know.

Presenter40:26

Anything, anything, anything happens, anywhere, whatever, it's me. Just come to me, I will be here for you always.

Speaker 340:39

Listen, baby.

Speaker 340:42

Ain't no mountain high, ain't no valley low, ain't no river wide enough, baby If you need me, call me, no matter where you are, no matter how far

Speaker 340:57

Just call my name, I'll be there in a hurry. You don't have to worry, or baby

Presenter41:05

Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell ain't no mountain high enough.

Presenter41:09

Ano, I'm about to send you to your desert island. What are you expecting to find there? How do you imagine life?

Presenter41:16

The thought of going fills me with dread.

Presenter41:19

I don't want to be on my own there. When I chose my special item, I wanted to take a weapon, but the producers told me I wasn't allowed. Too practical, yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin41:29

Two

Presenter41:31

Yeah, well obvious and obviously you're not allowed to do away with yourself.

Presenter41:34

But then my agent, who I couldn't have done life without, suggested that instead of a weapon I could just sit under a coconut tree and eventually probably a coconut will take me out. That's as good as I can. I'll probably like yeah.

Speaker 241:45

I'm probably like

Presenter41:47

It's very bleak because I don't my whole life blood is being with my people, and I will be without them.

Speaker 241:47

Do to the bottom of the field.

Speaker 241:50

It's very

Speaker 341:50

Yeah.

Speaker 341:55

Yeah.

Presenter41:58

I mean, so you'll miss your people the most. What about survival skills? Will you be bothering with trying to set up a shelter and catch some dinner and everything? No, I'll have a walk around. I'll have a little look around. If there's no one there, I'll think

Presenter42:14

The end is pretty near. Is there any point in building a bivouac? The end is near for me.

Presenter42:20

One more track before we let you go to the island. So, what are we going to hear next?

Presenter42:25

We're going to hear Tell Him by Lauren Hill, and it's for my boyfriend, Dickie. He's been brought up by a really exceptional mum, Diane. She's a single mum, and I think it's shaped so much of why he is an extra special, kind, caring, and wonderful person. And he came into our lives before Roger died.

Presenter42:49

He really wanted a song for him, and I did think long and hard about whether you include a song that's about.

Presenter42:57

your partner because you know partners can come and go, even though we have been together years, I don't think he's going to go. But Eve I was thinking, even if he left now or it fell apart,

Presenter43:10

The things he's taught me are so important I have to include him and talk about him.

Presenter43:18

Sorry.

Presenter43:20

Yeah.

Presenter43:21

Sorry. I think what it is is that I think for a l a long for a big chunk of my life I had sort of

Presenter43:31

Normalize this concept where you are loved, but sometimes love is withdrawn from you.

Presenter43:38

It's quite difficult and it's quite difficult to deal with.

Presenter43:41

And it feels unsafe, and lots of things about grief feel unsafe.

Presenter43:48

And I think what Dickie has done, and he does this by sort of he shows up every single day unequivocally with love and kindness and safety. I lost my

Presenter44:04

Cheerleader when I was twenty-four and I feel in Dickie, I've got it back.

Presenter44:11

How did the two of you meet?

Presenter44:14

It was straight out of COVID, so I was sort of straight out of the traps on a job.

Presenter44:22

And I thought, oh, he looks nice. Yes, he's a camera. They call him camera operators now. Okay.

Presenter44:27

Yeah, and um

Presenter44:30

We had a lovely date and then it went downhill and I thought he was pretty boring.

Presenter44:35

He wanted to do a lot of talking and I didn't have a massive amount of time for talking. I wanted to do more doing.

Anna Maxwell Martin44:39

The majority of the

Presenter44:48

'Cause he's a handsome guy, I'm gonna say.

Presenter44:53

Um he wants to get to know me.

Speaker 344:59

Another one of those, for God's sake.

Presenter45:01

Uh

Presenter45:02

One of those. And then, you know, we have faced some huge challenges, and he has.

Presenter45:12

for me and my children, and they would agree, he has just been a metronome of like straight and narrow. He is funny and sweet and safe and hard working and loving and I adore him.

Speaker 345:26

Let me be patient, let me be kind.

Speaker 345:32

Make me unselfie

Speaker 345:35

Without being blind.

Speaker 345:38

Though I may suffer, I'll envy at night And endure what comes Cause he's all that I gotta tell him

Speaker 345:51

Tell him I need him. Tell him I love him.

Presenter45:57

Lauren Hill and tell him So Anna, I'm about to cast you away to your island. I'll give you the books to take with you: the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take one other book. What's that going to be?

Presenter46:09

I've cheated a bit and I've crammed a series of books within the covers of one book. They are Kate Atkinson's books, so the Jackson Brodie books. So I'll trot around the island, read all of the Kate Atkinson books and then

Presenter46:29

The coconut.

Presenter46:33

And then if in doubt coconut.

Presenter46:36

I'm not sure that there's a single collection of Jackson Brody books, but I'll see what I can do. Thank you. I'll do my best. Thank you, thank you. You also get a luxury item. What would you like?

Speaker 346:40

Yeah.

Anna Maxwell Martin46:41

Uh

Anna Maxwell Martin46:43

Would you like?

Presenter46:44

Well as I said I wanted to be a weapon but that was disallowed so I have instead chosen my lucky conquer.

Presenter46:54

I absolutely love a conker, and I also love conker collecting.

Presenter47:00

And the joy I get when you open a conker and it's a double. Do you know what when you open a double conker?

Anna Maxwell Martin47:05

Do you know what mean open a double cop

Presenter47:08

Yeah. Ugh.

Presenter47:10

That's like in my top five happiest moments. And what distinguishes your lucky conker from a regular conker? Is it a double? One of my best friends, Kate Rayfield, gave me that conker twenty odd years ago, nudging 30. And I've had it ever since in my office drawer, my desk drawer. And I do think it has brought me an inordinate amount of luck.

Presenter47:38

um love and life and luck. And so I'm going to take it with me to the island. And if it doesn't bring me any more luck, then yet again I can swallow it, choke on it and die.

Presenter47:53

It's not the upbeat ending I was hoping for for your programme, Anna, I'll be honest.

Presenter47:58

I thought you were going to say you could plant it, maybe find a patch, a green patch and plant it and bring new life to the island. It's beyond that. It's shrivelled and dry. It's not like a beautiful, shiny, lovely, beautiful conker with a lovely side. Have you not seen cue garden seeds last hundreds of years? All right, let's leave on a positive. Let's leave on a positive. Growing in the bomb sites. So it's an either-or. Either, I'll swallow it, it'll choke me and I'll die. Or, as you say.

Speaker 248:03

Yeah

Speaker 348:05

Uh

Speaker 248:05

He's shrinking.

Speaker 248:10

See, I do not

Speaker 248:14

Alright, let's leave on the call.

Anna Maxwell Martin48:15

Let's leave on a positive.

Presenter48:25

I'll bury it and something will grow.

Presenter48:29

Now I feel like you're patronizing me. I don't want to leave on that. That's a sour note to end.

Speaker 348:33

I wanna leave on that.

Presenter48:39

I like that. It's a cliffhanger. Let's do it.

Presenter48:43

And finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves first if you had to?

Presenter48:51

Oh, it's going to be the greatest love of all, Whitney Houston. I can I'll just belt this out a few times and it will bring me a little bit of joy.

Presenter49:01

Anna Maxwell Martin, thank you for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you for having me.

Presenter49:27

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Anna. I'm sure she'll be able to see the positives in living on a desert island and will stay away from those falling coconuts. We've cast away many actors over the years, including Leslie Manville, Jesse Buckley, and Adeal Akdar. The studio manager for today's programme was Steve Greenwood, the assistant producer was Tim Bannow, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the writer Joe Nesbo. I hope you'll join us.

Speaker 250:08

Hi there, I'm Dilly Carter and this is everything you need to know about my new podcast, Sort Your Life Out Unpacked. I interview a different celebrity every episode. They bring me in three items from their home that reveal the most about them and we unpack the stories behind those items. And I give you a few tips and tricks along the way.

Speaker 250:28

Some of the guests that I'm going to be interviewing are TV presenters like Lorraine Kelly, reality stars like Kerry Katona, podcast royalty like Elizabeth Day, and of course our very own Stacey Solomon. Oh and let's not forget some incredibly funny comedians like Phil Wang and Eddie Caddy. I think as with everything Sort Your Life Out based you are going to get so much motivation, inspiration and ideas for your own home. Sort Your Life Out Unpacked presented by me, Diddy Carter. You can watch us on iPlayer and listen on BBC Sounds.