Jackie Charlton

Speaker 20:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Speaker 20:08

Jackie off from Northumberland.

Speaker 20:10

Ashington.

Jackie Charlton0:11

Yes. In Northumberland. And from a football family? Oh, very much so. Uh on my mother's side, the Milburn family, all the Milburns, Jack George, Jimmy Stan, Jackie Milburn is a member of the family as well. Yes. And uh my grandfather was a footballer, my great grandfather was a footballer. In fact

Jackie Charlton0:26

It's football all the way.

Speaker 20:28

is a mining town.

Speaker 20:30

Were you destined for that?

Jackie Charlton0:32

Yeah.

Speaker 20:32

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton0:32

But I need to

Speaker 20:32

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton0:32

I think almost every kid who's born in a mining area, unless there is something else for him, is destined for to be a miner. I worked down the pit for

Jackie Charlton0:41

about six months. Actually qualified to be go down and work there.

Speaker 20:45

Yes.

Jackie Charlton0:46

How old were you when you went off to join Leed?

Jackie Charlton0:49

Just fifteen and a half. Uh got the opportunity to come to leads. I could have gone at fifteen, but I didn't want to leave home.

Jackie Charlton0:56

And I found out I could only really go in the mines. I tried to see what it was like and I didn't really like what I saw.

Jackie Charlton1:02

And uh I still

Jackie Charlton1:03

My most vivid memories

Jackie Charlton1:05

and of what I saw in the pit, down below.

Jackie Charlton1:08

But I didn't take.

Jackie Charlton1:09

Yeah.

Speaker 21:09

Not at all.

Jackie Charlton1:11

Uh

Speaker 21:11

So at fifteen and a half off he went to join Leed.

Speaker 21:14

A at that age of course you have to you do you go in as a player or do you have to work on the ground stuff?

Jackie Charlton1:19

Uh

Speaker 21:20

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton1:20

Yes, you're going as a player. That's the prime

Jackie Charlton1:23

Thank you for having you there.

Jackie Charlton1:24

But usually you've got other jobs to do. Such as well when I was on the ground staff we had uh

Jackie Charlton1:29

Sweep the terraces, keep the place tidy.

Jackie Charlton1:32

paint the toilets out during the summer.

Jackie Charlton1:36

Pick the weeds off the field. Thousands of menial tasks.

Speaker 21:40

Leeds is the only club you ever played for.

Jackie Charlton1:42

Yes, I've um been very happy at Leeds. On a whole, yes, it's the only club I've ever wanted to play for. Yes, there was an interruption of a couple of years while you were in the army.

Jackie Charlton1:51

Two years at Windsor. Yes. This was probably the two happiest years in my life, in fact. Were they? I think so. I made more friends.

Jackie Charlton1:58

Saw more of the south of England anyway than I'd ever thought I would. You were in the Horse Guards. I was in the Horse Guards at Windsor for two years.

Speaker 22:01

And we're in the horse.

Jackie Charlton2:05

And um generally learnt all the bad habits I've kept since.

Jackie Charlton2:08

You played a lot of football?

Jackie Charlton2:10

I was captain of the regimental team for the last year.

Speaker 22:12

As a private

Jackie Charlton2:13

As a private, probably the only private ever captained a horse guard steamer believe. At that time it may have been different since.

Jackie Charlton2:19

We won the Cavalry Cup and generally we raised. I like to think that I helped to raise the standard of the regimental football at that time.

Speaker 22:26

When you were out of uniform, we went back to Leeds. Um it's about this time your young brother signed up with another

Jackie Charlton2:32

Glove.

Jackie Charlton2:32

Bobby joined Manchester United when I was seventeen.

Jackie Charlton2:37

And just going in the army. And then when I was ready to come out of the army, he was still in. Uh-huh.

Speaker 22:42

Uh

Jackie Charlton2:42

Yeah.

Speaker 22:43

And um

Jackie Charlton2:43

Uh

Speaker 22:43

He could swank a bit because his was a first division club and when you joined Leeds Leeds was second division.

Jackie Charlton2:48

Uh

Speaker 22:48

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton2:49

Yes, well Bobby was always an ex an outstanding schoolboy. He was an exceptional player. And it was it wasn't a case of

Jackie Charlton2:57

Whether Manchester Naters had been in the 3rd, 4th or 5th Division, at that time he was Manchester Native crazy and that's where he wanted to go.

Jackie Charlton3:03

Generally in a first division club how stiff is the training?

Jackie Charlton3:07

Well, preseason is very hard.

Jackie Charlton3:09

Pre-season. This is the five weeks before you actually start the season. Yes. But then once you get into this season,

Jackie Charlton3:16

Because of the pressure of the number of games you have to play. Like, if you play two games a week, which is in fact three games within seven days.

Speaker 23:18

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton3:22

You tend only to loosen up and to warm up and to get rid of the aches and pains.

Jackie Charlton3:26

And then when you've finished the midweek games then it starts really getting a bit harder again, although we only train mornings.

Speaker 23:32

Yes.

Jackie Charlton3:32

We very rarely go back in the afternoon. Oh, you don't go back to do things like tactics and looking at films? Occasionally. Not no films. We do tactics occasionally in the afternoon.

Speaker 23:37

Occasionally.

Jackie Charlton3:41

But usually

Jackie Charlton3:42

When you've made the first team.

Jackie Charlton3:44

But leads anyway, you've already had already

Jackie Charlton3:47

Basic knowledge of the game pushed into your head, and you've practised that at great length.

Jackie Charlton3:51

So when you're in the first team you tend to be able to be told

Jackie Charlton3:55

What you want they want you to do rather than have to practice it all the time, yeah.

Jackie Charlton3:59

How many league games have you played in your career?

Jackie Charlton4:03

towards the end of last season.

Jackie Charlton4:05

A lot of football. How many times have you played for England?

Jackie Charlton4:09

Thirty six they tell me I never did count them.

Jackie Charlton4:12

But um thirty-six people tell me and they're they're probably right.

Speaker 24:15

Now you and brother Bobby, of course, together in the English side. It had been a long time since there were two brothers together in the England side.

Jackie Charlton4:21

Yeah, it was quite a thrill at the time. It was something I never thought would happen to me to actually play with him at Wembley for England, especially at Wembley.

Speaker 24:27

Yes.

Jackie Charlton4:28

Uh

Speaker 24:28

Yeah. You are together in perhaps the most exciting game of football this country has ever seen probably ever will see.

Jackie Charlton4:34

Uh

Speaker 24:35

The

Jackie Charlton4:35

The Welco Final Cup.

Speaker 24:35

The Welco File.

Jackie Charlton4:37

While I was with him for possi possibly the

Jackie Charlton4:40

The best part of football

Jackie Charlton4:43

Most exciting part of football that I and my career have ever had, you know, from joining the England team to going through the World Cup.

Jackie Charlton4:49

to the following World Cup in Mexico. This was a tremendous you know, not only for England, but for my club as well.

Speaker 24:51

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton4:55

We went through complete cher period of change.

Jackie Charlton4:58

came from obscurity to be one of the leading club teams and to be with England at the time of the World Cup was also a tremendous privilege. I

Speaker 25:07

Nervous.

Jackie Charlton5:07

Uh

Speaker 25:07

Before again

Jackie Charlton5:08

No

Jackie Charlton5:09

Uh, I want to be. I play me I play better when I'm nervous. Unfortunately I find I've played a game so long that I tend

Jackie Charlton5:16

and certain games to play him very flat.

Jackie Charlton5:19

So that I've got to really gee myself to give a performance. Are you superstitious? Oh, very much so. I uh

Jackie Charlton5:25

I don't walk under ladders and all the things that you're not supposed to do. I throw salt over my shoulder. I don't know whether I should be.

Jackie Charlton5:32

because I am uh reasonably religious without

Jackie Charlton5:35

In

Jackie Charlton5:36

What's the word um

Jackie Charlton5:38

Fanatic.

Speaker 25:38

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Charlton5:39

But, um and I I've always feel a bit guilty because, you know, superstition and religion can't go hand in hand together.

Speaker 25:45

No.

Jackie Charlton5:46

When you play outside England, which country do you like playing in? Well, two really.

Jackie Charlton5:50

Germany where I play. I like playing in Germany. I think they play our tape of football. It's hard, it's aggressive and it's

Speaker 25:51

I like

Jackie Charlton5:56

Very competitive.

Jackie Charlton5:57

And the Ford's great.

Jackie Charlton5:59

I like the phone in Germany, they eat better than anywhere I've ever been.

Jackie Charlton6:02

And uh I like a night out after a game and you can always find somewhere to go in Germany.

Speaker 26:05

That's

Jackie Charlton6:07

Where's the other country? Brazil.

Jackie Charlton6:09

Uh although I've never played in Brazil, I went with the England team once, but I didn't play in the game.

Jackie Charlton6:13

Rio in particular was absolutely beautiful. It's it's easily the

Jackie Charlton6:17

The most beautiful city I've ever been in. The beaches were unbelievable and

Jackie Charlton6:21

Oh, everything about it was magic.

Jackie Charlton6:23

Jackie, what's gone wrong with football? Why has it become such a violent game?

Jackie Charlton6:27

I don't believe it has become a violent game. I think um

Jackie Charlton6:31

The press and the television cover more the violence than they do the football nowadays, and they give it more publicity than it ever did before.

Jackie Charlton6:39

Do you really think it's as simple as that?

Jackie Charlton6:41

Well, I believe so. You know, um the the pressure on the players is tremendous now.

Speaker 26:45

Uh Yeah.

Jackie Charlton6:45

To perform for the clubs.

Jackie Charlton6:48

And uh

Jackie Charlton6:49

The game is no harder now than it was when I started to play.

Jackie Charlton6:52

It's not the money that the players get. This doesn't come into it at all. I think it's mainly.

Jackie Charlton6:58

The fact that the

Jackie Charlton6:59

The spotlight is put on.

Jackie Charlton7:01

The violin parts are getting much more now than it ever was before.

Speaker 27:03

That spotlight is terribly bad for the game, and it's a a shocking example, of course, to the kids on the terraces.

Jackie Charlton7:09

Yeah, well it's all we get a lot of trouble behind the goals nowadays and

Jackie Charlton7:14

one of the television companies a few years ago.

Jackie Charlton7:16

Run a choir.

Jackie Charlton7:18

Where they encourage people to s go behind the goals and sing. Well, since then the kids have adopted adapted their own words to the songs they they used to sing. And we get it on television now. And they can actually hear themselves when they watch the match of the day the following either that evening or the following day. And it gives them a certain notoriety if they their voice can be heard above everyone else's.

Jackie Charlton7:36

If they're gonna have a fight, the television cameras cover the fight, they leave the game and cover the fight.

Jackie Charlton7:41

And I and I I just think the television people especially and the newspapers

Jackie Charlton7:48

Are more interested in the nastier aspects of the game than they are interested in the game. And this encourages them more unstability. Encourages them more unstability, it gives them publicity, which if they didn't get, they wouldn't they wouldn't look for.

Speaker 27:53

The courage is a matter of

Speaker 27:59

Yes.

Speaker 28:00

You've been at the top a long time, Jackie. What's going to happen when you wind down? What do you want to do? Do you want to

Jackie Charlton8:04

Yeah.

Speaker 28:05

Manage

Jackie Charlton8:05

Yeah.

Jackie Charlton8:07

I probably will want to.

Jackie Charlton8:09

I don't think I would ever like to be a manager in the sense of of running a club for

Jackie Charlton8:14

handling the the the pay checks and worrying about finance and painting the stands and all this business. No, I wanna handle players, I wanna handle a team. People who understand.

Jackie Charlton8:24

I want to do the thing that I'm there being paid for, which is

Jackie Charlton8:27

to impart whatever knowledge I've I've gained in football, whatever training methods, whatever ideas I've got.

Jackie Charlton8:33

To players

Jackie Charlton8:35

And I want to be a public relations man with the public. Yes, that's important. But I think it's important in in a from a like I think the game if they want to clean it up would be much quicker cleaned up if the managers took a lot more interest.

Jackie Charlton8:47

and the way their players performed.

Jackie Charlton8:50

And and stuck to the rules. I'm sure it would.

Jackie Charlton8:54

But I'll I will probably be a manager.

Jackie Charlton8:57

Mainly because I've been in the game so long I know nothing else. Any more talent coming up in the family? What about your children? Well, Bobby's got difficulties. He's got two girls.

Jackie Charlton9:05

Yeah, you buggy boy.

Speaker 29:05

Yeah, you guys

Jackie Charlton9:07

I've got two boys. I have a boy, uh

Jackie Charlton9:10

thirteen and a John and a boy.

Jackie Charlton9:12

Six. Pina

Jackie Charlton9:14

John is um

Jackie Charlton9:16

He's fairly good.

Jackie Charlton9:17

I watch him play occasionally. He's very skilful, but he's he's like I was at his age, he's very long, very skinny.

Speaker 29:22

Mm-hmm.

Jackie Charlton9:22

And um a little bit on the slow side. But he'll get his chance when he finishes school.

Jackie Charlton9:28

to make his way in the game, mainly because his name's Charlton anyway. Yes, if he wants to. If he wants to, and um

Jackie Charlton9:35

The younger boy is starting to take an interest at six. He goes to all the games, stands in the terrace in a little box we've got it on road where he can watch without being crushed. He doesn't like to sit down, he likes to be part of the lads as well. Very critical?

Speaker 29:43

It is like

Jackie Charlton9:47

No, John isn't. Not to me. You very rarely, if ever.

Jackie Charlton9:52

Discusses my performance.

Jackie Charlton9:54

Teams performances sometimes.

Jackie Charlton9:56

Peter doesn't understand it.

Jackie Charlton9:58

And the girl, she doesn't go to football matches, she's dedicated to having fun in many other ways.