Charles Groves

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. This is the only extract the BBC has of this episode, and for rights reasons, the music is shorter than on the original broadcast. The presenter is Roy Plumley. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter1:18

Charles, what part of the country do you come from? I'm a Cottony.

Presenter1:21

You come from a musical family?

Presenter1:23

Not really. I think somewhere way back there was a famous singer.

Presenter1:28

Ada Crossley in our family. But my mother was a nice singer of ballads. Yes, played the piano nicely, but uh not really musical.

Presenter1:36

And you began your musical career as a conister.

Presenter1:39

I did, yes, in St Paul's Cathedral. Mhm. Where did you progress from there? I went to school at Southern Valence in Kent, and then directly to the Royal College of Music. And you were a great concert goer as a boy. Enormous, yes. I I had my first season to get at the Proms as a present.

Presenter1:55

And the first year, I was 12, I think. In the first season, I went to 41 out of the 42 concerts that year. I'd heard a lot of music. You certainly did.

Presenter2:03

And at the Royal College, what savvies did you take?

Presenter2:06

Well principally organ and piano. First of all organ as as principal study and piano as second study.

Presenter2:12

Then after a time I changed round the other way round. Yes. Are those years that the the mid thirties were exciting years at the Royal College were they? They were wonderful because Sir Hugh Allen was a great director.

Presenter2:22

It gives a great stimulus. He invited Sir Thomas Beacham to come two years running to conduct operas, Mance Hugh the Drover by Vaughan Williams.

Speaker 12:27

Once you

Presenter2:30

And the Village Romeo and Juliet by Delius. These were great days. Were you mixed up with the opera class? I wasn't very much, no. I a lot of my friends were. It took me a rather long time to get from the ecclesiastical to the uh worldly. Yes. Your sights were set on what? Being an accompanist? Being an accompanist, yes, really.

Speaker 12:43

Yeah.

Presenter2:49

And what happened when you left college?

Presenter2:51

Well, I applied for an audition to the BBC as an accomplist. I didn't get the job, but they gave me a lot of ad hoc work, and I got involved very much with the BBC.

Presenter3:00

Yeah.

Presenter3:01

You worked with that legendary figure Toscanini.

Presenter3:05

I did, yes, I played some of the rehearsals for his.

Presenter3:08

Coral pieces

Presenter3:09

in the London music festivals of thirty-six and thirty-seven here.

Presenter3:13

Was he a difficult man?

Presenter3:16

I think he was a difficult man in that he was very fiery.

Presenter3:20

Uh

Presenter3:21

Because he couldn't understand English, was apt to think that if anybody said anything

Presenter3:25

They were being rude to him.

Presenter3:29

How did he compare with Beecher?

Presenter3:32

He used to call Beecham Arlachino or Pagliaccio. And Beecham used to refer to him either as poor old Toscanini or a military bandmaster. So I think they they were both.

Presenter3:43

fire and brimstone people, but beecham had more charm.

Presenter3:47

Yeah.

Presenter3:49

And then you moved on to the BBC stuff? I did, yes. I was chorus master for the BBC Theatre Chorus. In 1938, they formed the music productions unit, which was to do studio opera. And the first production, which was conducted by Stanford Robinson, was Manon by Massenet, with a supercast, Maggie Tate's Manon, Hedel Nash's Degrieur.

Presenter4:13

Dennis Noble, Norman Allen.

Presenter4:15

Roy Henderson. It was a fantastic card. It really was magnificent.

Presenter4:20

And um

Presenter4:22

I think I should like to remember that by hearing Hedel Nash sing the dream song.

Charles Groves4:29

But one thing, one thing only still is one.

Charles Groves4:45

Ah

Charles Groves4:47

Yeah.

Charles Groves5:01

Dream complete.

Charles Groves5:09

To God we too shall live together if you come.

Presenter5:25

Edelmer singing the dream song from Massenet's Mano.

Presenter5:31

Now this was 1938. The war wasn't far off of course.

Presenter5:35

And he went up to Evesham. He was sent there with 12 singers, I guess.

Speaker 15:40

That's right.

Presenter5:41

Yeah.

Presenter5:42

We used to rehearse in an old pub called the Cider Mill, which was very nice. If you remember, the

Presenter5:48

Autumn of 1939 was a golden Indian summer.

Charles Groves5:51

Yeah.

Presenter5:52

And the war hadn't really started.

Presenter5:55

These wonderful countryside

Presenter5:58

Rehearsing

Presenter5:59

In the morning, going downstairs for a pint of cider in the break and something. It was quite extraordinary at the time, really.

Speaker 16:04

Done.

Presenter6:05

And then you were put in charge of that rather oddly named orchestra, the Review Orchestra. Yes.

Presenter6:10

This really had been the old BBC television orchestra. And I had it for a year. I did some quite interesting things. I remember conducting for Gertrude Lawrence's Lady in the Dark.

Presenter6:21

by Brexton Court Vile is

Presenter6:24

And

Presenter6:25

We used to do little concerts and from that I was

Presenter6:28

spotted, I suppose, as as being a possible conductor.

Presenter6:31

In the future.

Presenter6:32

Yes. And then you took over the BBC Northern Orchestra, that's right. Was that hard work? It was terrifically hard work because I suppose we did five broadcasts a week and I used to conduct them all in those days. We didn't have any guest conductors.

Presenter6:44

and good for learning the repertoire. Indeed. I believe you met your wife at that time. Yes, she used to uh be in charge of the musical balance of some of our concerts. And I always was attracted to her.

Presenter6:56

Because I thought she left the knobs alone, as I said. She used to leave the dynamics to me for it.

Presenter7:03

You had an exchange visit to Australia at that time? Yes, in 1950.

Presenter7:07

I spent four and a half months there and I enjoy it very much. How long did you stay with the corporation altogether? Thirteen years. Wasn't it arranged to leave?

Presenter7:15

It was really, although

Presenter7:17

It's been marvellous really because I've always worked for the BBC ever since in one way or another and I feel I have great links with the BBC.

Presenter7:26

Let's have your third record now.

Presenter7:28

Well, it really illustrates what I mean. It's it's part of Beethoven's Chorus Symphony.

Presenter7:33

The last movement.

Presenter7:35

Where the

Presenter7:37

Bay's service comes in with his great restitive.

Presenter7:40

and says let's not have any more of this

Presenter7:43

Humming and haring, let's get on with the song of joy.

Presenter7:46

Here it is.

Charles Groves8:13

Sonden.

Presenter8:45

An excerpt from Beethoven's choral symphony, the Viana Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Hans Schmidt Isserstead.

Presenter8:52

When you left the corporation, you went to the Bournemouth Municipal Orchestra and thrived. At a time when it was faced with rather a serious financial crisis.

Presenter9:00

Yes, it was not long after I went there that the corporation decided they couldn't afford

Presenter9:05

the orchestra, although the rates of the musicians in those days were pitiably low.

Presenter9:10

But um

Presenter9:12

When we got the sack, we all got together and decided we couldn't let the orchestra finish, so we.

Presenter9:18

Formed a new orchestra called the Bowman Symphony Orchestra.

Presenter9:21

I'm pleased to say it's flourishing. Yes, and you had a great deal to do with putting it on its feet and sorting it out. You linked up with the Welsh National Opera Company. Yes.

Presenter9:30

And this was a very fortunate thing for us at the time and it was also good for the Welsh National because it meant that they had a ready-made professional orchestra.

Presenter9:39

For their office. Yes, you used to conduct beard for them. Yes.

Presenter9:43

How many concerts a year did you do with the Bournemouth Orchestra? Well, when I first went there, I would think in...

Speaker 19:46

Uh

Presenter9:48

Bournemouth alone.

Presenter9:50

Mm-hmm.

Presenter9:53

It's a lot, it's a lot, yeah. And you brought it to the proms for the first time? Yeah.

Presenter9:58

How long were you with them?

Presenter9:59

10 years and from there I became the first resident music director of the Welsh National Opera Company.

Presenter10:07

Because Bill Smith, who was then head of the opera there, he decided that.

Presenter10:12

If the worst national was going to mean anything, it's got to be a national company.

Presenter10:16

And he had his eye on a possible professionalization of the company. And so he asked me to come in and help him do that.

Presenter10:24

And then you move to the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra. How are things in Liverpool? Oh, they're fine because we have our own beautiful hall.

Presenter10:32

Where we rehearse and where we have our offices and that sort of thing. We're very fortunate indeed.

Presenter10:38

You're also Associate Conductor of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, and of course you have a few months in the year to to travel and and conduct overseas. You have a regular engagement with the Munich Philharmonic. Well I I have been there every season for the past four years and I'm going again at Christmas when I'm conducting the Ninth Symphony on New Year's Eve, which will be very nice. Lovely.

Presenter10:57

Let's have your fifth record.

Presenter10:59

Well, I should like to recall.

Presenter11:01

Wales. I remember when I announced at the breakfast table that

Presenter11:05

We were going to Liverpool. My two daughters, who were about 12 and 10 then, wept into their porridge because they loved living in South Wales so much. So I'd like to hear.

Presenter11:14

Polly Garter song of Manda Milkwood.

Presenter11:16

The music of which was written by a very old friend of mine, Dan Jones.

Speaker 211:20

The Reverend Eli Jenkins, busy on his morning calls, stops outside the welfare hall to hear Polly Garter as she scrubs the floors for the Mothers' Union dance tonight.

Charles Groves11:35

I loved a man whose name was Tom, He was strong as a bear and two yards long. I loved a man whose name was Dick. He was big as a barrel and two feet thick. And I loved a man whose name was Harry, Six feet tall and sweet as a cherry, But the one I loved best, awake or asleep.

Charles Groves12:13

Was little Willy Wee, And he six feet deep.

Presenter12:20

Diana Maddox's Polygarter in Dylan Thomas's Under Milkwood, and also a few words by Richard Burton.

Presenter12:27

Let's go straight on to your next record.

Presenter12:29

Well

Presenter12:31

I think Wagner is one of the greatest

Presenter12:33

composers. And if I were on that island I'd like to have something to remind me of the grand sweep and scope of his music.

Presenter12:43

And I think I would take the

Presenter12:46

Spring song, which is sung by Siegmund in the first act of Die Vauquira.

Presenter12:52

where the door in Hunding's hut is suddenly blown wide open and there's the spring moonlight outside and he sings this beautiful music.

Charles Groves13:21

In test and they form our wounds, in ill delight at lands of Lin and Lu.

Charles Groves13:35

Can you eye stupidly?

Speaker 113:35

Yeah.

Presenter13:58

John Vickers singing Siegmunds

Presenter14:01

Spring song from Wagner's De Valkura, which you conducted at Saddler's Wells last year. Yes, I did.

Speaker 114:05

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter14:07

Yes, and and on tour incentive, which is very thrilling.

Presenter14:11

How do you fancy yourself as a castaway in the practical sense? Do you think you would be good?

Presenter14:16

I think in in time I would. I'm not

Presenter14:18

particularly practical. I'm rather bad with my m with my hands. My fingers are all thumbs. And I have a

Presenter14:24

Platform

Presenter14:25

Being a lovely person, I've got to be a practical wife.

Presenter14:30

Is good living important to you? Could you survive on basic reasons? Oh, yes, absolutely absolutely.

Speaker 114:33

Oh yes I have

Presenter14:36

Quite easily live on

Presenter14:40

Really basic thing.

Presenter14:41

Would you try to escape? Do you know anything about Small Boat? No, nothing at all. Right. Let's have record number seven. Well, I've chosen this because it's by a not dead composer, Messiar.

Presenter14:52

A piece which he wrote when he was a prisoner of war in Poland.

Presenter14:56

And

Presenter14:57

It shows what amazing tranquility can be achieved.

Charles Groves14:58

Uh

Presenter15:01

by a great composer, under difficult circumstances,

Presenter15:04

It's the fifth movement of his quartet The End of Time.

Presenter15:09

in which the cello and piano are heard alone.

Presenter16:11

The opening of the fifth movement in praise of the eternity of Jesus from Messier's Quartet for the End of Time.

Presenter16:19

Now we come to your last record. What's that to be?

Presenter16:22

Well

Presenter16:24

I

Presenter16:24

have the most

Presenter16:26

Carti.

Presenter16:27

Admiration and loving memories of Sir Thomas Beacham. I'd like to take.

Presenter16:33

Something that he'd recorded with me.

Presenter16:36

After a lot of thought, I've chosen the very end of Strauss's tone poem, Einhildendeben, A Hero's Life.

Presenter16:45

I remember.

Presenter16:47

Beecham coming with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.

Presenter16:49

Manchester, playing at Bellevue.

Presenter16:52

And

Presenter16:54

Seeing

Presenter16:55

old Tommy, with the tears streaming down his face as he conducted this last couple of pages of this score.

Presenter17:57

V8 two chairs and which would it be?

Presenter18:00

I'd take the vagra, I think.