Alec Robertson

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy two.

Presenter0:12

Desert Island discs.

Presenter0:31

As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:36

Our Castaway this week was a record critic for nearly fifty years, and he's a popular author and broadcaster on musical subjects, and this very day is his eightieth birthday. It's Alec Robertson. Congratulations to you, Alec, and good wishes. And it's harm

Speaker 10:46

Yeah.

Alec Robertson0:46

Definitely.

Alec Robertson0:52

Hard to believe. Thank you, Roy. Yes, I am indeed eighty. Sometimes I feel like it, but very often not, I feel young inside.

Alec Robertson1:00

But I've got a friend I meet occasionally, and every time he says to me, You don't look a day older Then he adds, Nor a day younger. That puts me in my place.

Alec Robertson1:11

Is there any one thing you'd be especially glad to have got away from? Oh, indeed.

Alec Robertson1:16

Motor cars, aeroplanes.

Alec Robertson1:19

And members of the upper classes will say, I know, I hope, instead of a good round O.

Presenter1:26

Ha ha ha.

Presenter1:28

Out of your vast experience of music, how did you set about selecting just eight discs? Was there any plan in mind?

Alec Robertson1:36

Yes, I suppose there was. Obviously one goes for the music that one loves. I've always been very fond of opera and leader, English songs. And so I like um vocal record best of all. What's the first one we're going to hear?

Alec Robertson1:52

Well, this will be my beloved kind philosopher and friend.

Alec Robertson1:58

All through my life, really, Joan Sebastian Bach.

Alec Robertson2:03

Now not one of the big works, these aren't suited to Desert Island, something intimate, chamber music in fact. It is um a movement from one of the six violin and harpsichord sonatas.

Alec Robertson2:17

And

Alec Robertson2:18

In it, something happens that only music can do, and it's this.

Alec Robertson2:23

The violin begins with a praise and halfway through the harpsichord begins with the same praise. Now imagine two people speaking a poem, one beginning and then suddenly the other one cuts in with exactly the same words and going on to the end. Chaos, but in music, lovely.

Presenter3:43

The Bach sonata for violin and harpsichord in A major, Henrik Schiering and Helmut Walker.

Presenter3:49

What's your second record?

Alec Robertson3:52

Beethoven.

Alec Robertson3:54

You know, it's an extraordinary thing that every year at the Proms Beethoven comes top of the pole. His popularity never seems to diminish. He's always a sell out at the box office, at the festival hall, it seems. Now why is this? Well, I think there's one reason for it.

Alec Robertson4:12

Beethoven wins his battles. He fought some terrible battles in his life tragic life on the whole. But he gets above the battle. He's victorious.

Alec Robertson4:24

I believe this gives people courage.

Alec Robertson4:27

Well I've chosen the caveatina from the um B flat.

Alec Robertson4:33

major string quartet.

Alec Robertson4:37

That's one of the last five string quartets, you know.

Alec Robertson4:41

And Beethoven said this affected him more than anything he'd ever written. I think you'll understand why when you hear it. It's coming from the very depths of his heart and soul. It is a

Alec Robertson4:51

Not just a beautiful melody, it's a fervent prayer.

Alec Robertson4:55

He always said, God alone has never deserted me.

Alec Robertson4:59

And that's the faith he clung to.

Presenter6:01

The cavertina from the Beethoven string quartet in B flat major, opus one hundred and thirty, the Italian quartet.

Presenter6:09

Alec, do you come from a musical family?

Alec Robertson6:12

My mother, um, had singing lessons from a famous singing teacher of her time. Well, when I say lessons, lesson, I should say. She sang Angels Ever Bright and Fair and he told her to go away and never come back again. Were you put to the piano as a dr Or or did you go to the

Presenter6:28

Or ou did you go to the piano?

Alec Robertson6:29

I went to the piano. I went to the harmonium first of all. I made dreadful noises, but I had an aunt who had attacks of wind during it, she didn't notice it. And then I went to the piano, as you say, and studied the piano and the violin and all those things. But I soon realized that music was to be my life. My mother's people were legal people, barristers, and want a judge, but music for me.

Presenter6:30

I win

Presenter7:03

Where did you study?

Alec Robertson7:05

But

Alec Robertson7:07

I began to study actually at a school. I went to the headmaster and I said, I don't want to do Latin verse. I'm going to be a musician. Can I study harmony and counterpoint? He was so staggered by this.

Alec Robertson7:19

He almost fell into the waste paper basket, and before he recovered

Alec Robertson7:22

I did it. I got it. I thought that's never happened before. Then I went to the Royal Academy of Music.

Alec Robertson7:28

and studied there for four years.

Presenter7:30

Yeah.

Alec Robertson7:30

And when you left the academy?

Alec Robertson7:32

When I left the academy, I became organist and choir mart of a charming little village called Frencham in Surrey, and was very happy there. I lived in a cottage called Nightingale Cottage.

Presenter7:42

Yes.

Alec Robertson7:42

Yeah.

Presenter7:43

Well then there was the First War and you were in the army for a number of years in India most of the time, remember?

Alec Robertson7:48

I was only in India for well, yes, for two years for uh training for active service.

Alec Robertson7:54

Yeah.

Presenter7:54

Was there any scope for music while you were in uniform?

Alec Robertson7:56

Tremendous scope.

Alec Robertson7:58

One of my greatest friends is a very good pianist. I sang that time in what you might call a charming light baritone voice.

Alec Robertson8:06

And there were various people there, sopranos, singers and basses and tenors and so on. We used to give concerts every Sunday night. It became an absolute rage in the station. Such a thing had never happened before, I don't think.

Alec Robertson8:19

And then of course I went to Palestine as a on active service and that was the more or less the end of that.

Alec Robertson8:25

And when the war was over.

Alec Robertson8:27

When the war was over, I did not return to the organ bench. I never really liked the organ. It's apt to go off in a funny way, you know. You're not expecting it.

Alec Robertson8:37

And so I lectured at Evening Institute uh for quite a long time. An awful slog. You got about two guineas for two hours, you know, that sort of thing. And then I joined the Gramphone Company, HMV, through the good offices of a friend of mine. Yes. What did you do?

Alec Robertson8:56

Well, um I was to be a lecturer to their newly formed education department. I stumped up and down England, Scotland, Wales.

Alec Robertson9:06

Everywhere.

Alec Robertson9:07

trying to propagate uh the use of the gramophone in uh to teach people about music. And the amount of snobbery there was about this, you wouldn't believe, you know, people this toy, the way they looked at it. When did you start reviewing records?

Presenter9:14

Uh

Alec Robertson9:23

1923, County Mackenzie had this brilliant idea of um

Alec Robertson9:28

Introducing this paper, never had been a paper like it before.

Alec Robertson9:32

And we used to review them in a very primitive kind of way, down in Newman Street in London.

Presenter9:37

The monthly magazine The Gramophone.

Alec Robertson9:39

Yes. And because I was employed with the Rampo and Company, I had to take a pseudonym. I call myself Newman Passage.

Alec Robertson9:46

And my other friend, who was also of the Grand Hen Company, called himself Percy Percy.

Presenter9:52

A splendid act. Percy and Newman Passie. Well, let's have your third record now. What's that to be?

Alec Robertson9:55

Yeah.

Alec Robertson9:58

And now I'm turning to something very different from Beethoven.

Alec Robertson10:02

Cappatina. That is um

Alec Robertson10:05

A wonderful piece by Bartard called A Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion. I think he's...

Alec Robertson10:11

Certainly one of the greatest composers of our time.

Alec Robertson10:15

It's the last movement I've chosen.

Alec Robertson10:17

And uh as you'll hear, it's a most exhilarating piece.

Presenter11:18

The third movement of the Bartock sonata for two pianos in percussion, Eden and Tamir at the pianos.

Presenter11:26

How long did you work on the education side of the Gram Affair?

Alec Robertson11:30

Oh, let me see.

Alec Robertson11:32

Honestly, can't remember how many years, quite a lot, about eight years, something like that. And then you decided to study for the priesthood? Yes, and the two companies.

Alec Robertson11:41

joined at that time, Columbian HMV, and somehow I feel him very much out of um

Alec Robertson11:47

Touch with commercial things. I had this idea of wanting to dedicate such talents I had to the service of God in a special way. And so off I went, to my mother's horror, to Rome, where I studied for four years in the Collegio Beda. Yes. And then you were a chaplain at Westminster Cathedral? I was appointed to Westminster Cathedral, which I prayed I never would be, and of course I was. Were you able to wait? From the

Presenter12:14

Male Speaker 2.

Alec Robertson12:14

Uh Sure.

Alec Robertson12:15

Yes, all that side of it I like very much.

Alec Robertson12:19

and I play the organ sometimes.

Alec Robertson12:22

And um I continued my reviews there. I n I had no particular musical post except just to um stand in for the organ occasionally.

Presenter12:31

Then after a few years you asked to be relieved of your priestly obligations and you joined the

Alec Robertson12:36

B B C

Alec Robertson12:37

That is so, yes. All the avenues seem to close for me. It was a very, very unhappy time, but I am glad to say I had a wonderful friend in Cardinal Hinsley.

Alec Robertson12:47

Really?

Alec Robertson12:48

I can't tell you how kind and fatherly he was to me. Then I joined the B B C I started a thing called Forces Music Club, you know, and um I worked on Music Magazine for eight years. I was the in the very first number, as indeed you were. Yes, we

Presenter12:58

I work on

Presenter13:04

Uh

Alec Robertson13:05

Yeah.

Presenter13:05

Yeah

Alec Robertson13:07

And then twenty years ago you retired from the B B C and got busier than ever? I did. I did a tremendous amount of broadcasting and some television too. I didn't like that terribly well, but I'm glad I was able to cope with the medium.

Alec Robertson13:22

And uh I was writing books very hard. I love work, it's it's a joy to me to work. And so, um, you know, I've been very busy indeed.

Presenter13:32

It's time we had another record.

Alec Robertson13:34

This has been one of the great loves of my life.

Alec Robertson13:38

And I'm tuned

Alec Robertson13:40

for its associations too with two artists, Darling Elizabeth Schumann and my very dear friend Gerald Moore, two magnificent artists. It's Schubert thanking

Alec Robertson13:50

His beloved piano for all its men.

Alec Robertson13:53

And mine clavier to my piano.

Speaker 414:01

On discovery.

Speaker 414:19

On Fisk of Meeting.

Speaker 414:24

Yeah.

Speaker 114:38

Should be

Speaker 414:42

Favour's coming.

Presenter14:58

Elizabeth Schumann singing Schubert's Anmein Klavier.

Presenter15:03

In your more than fifty years' association with records, work for which you have been awarded a a much coveted golden disc, you must be one of the very, very few non-recording artists to own one of these discs. You must have seen tremendous changes, particularly in the extent of the repertoire.

Alec Robertson15:21

Yes, that is very true. You must always remember that if you go right back, it's quite astonishing what things do turn up. You'll find some Monteverde, you'll find some Schoenberg even early work. But today it's fantastic how the rapper are.

Alec Robertson15:38

has changed and enlarged itself, but unfortunately repeats itself far too often in the classics.

Presenter15:44

Yeah.

Presenter15:45

Tell me about your books. You've written a history of music, I know.

Alec Robertson15:49

and several biographies.

Alec Robertson15:50

Well the history music was with my friend Dennis Stevens for penguin books been a fantastic success, the only time I made any money out of a book. And um I yes, I've written a biography of Bourjac, no other biography is relevant. I've written a lot about church music and I've just completed now a book on 170 of the Bach church cantatars and that will be the end for me. You think? Well it very nearly finished me as it was. Recently you've returned to the priesthood.

Alec Robertson16:23

Yes, this was a great joy to me. It's quite a private, intimate affair.

Alec Robertson16:27

But um just as Cardinal Hinsley was a wonderful friend to me, so has Cardinal Heenan been.

Alec Robertson16:34

And I hope I'm sorry, it sounds a bit snobbish. There's a third cardinal right to the Vatican.

Alec Robertson16:40

And it seemed that everything came right in the most beautiful and lovely way. And so I'm very happy.

Presenter16:47

Friendly. Let's have record number five.

Alec Robertson16:50

Yes, now this is going to be opera. You've been one of the great loves of my life. And love I love the the voice, you know, especially the soprano voice.

Alec Robertson17:00

It to me is a miracle, uh the great Wagnerian prima donnes, the great Italian prima donnes.

Alec Robertson17:06

It's a miracle to me what what the human larynx can produce in the way of beautiful sound. Not always beautiful, I admit.

Alec Robertson17:13

And so I've chosen

Alec Robertson17:15

An artist I love, Tibaldi, reminds me of my years in Italy too, the warmth, the sensuous warmth and beauty of Italy.

Alec Robertson17:22

A singing a little aria from a minor composer.

Alec Robertson17:27

in an opera called Adriana Le Crouverde. And she is representing this French actress. She comes into the dressing room and says, Well, don't applaud me, my friends, to the other actors. I'm only the humble servant of art. That's how I begin.

Speaker 417:53

Uh

Speaker 418:28

Give me your fall.

Presenter18:43

Renata Tabaldi in an aria from Chile's Adriana Le Couvre.

Presenter18:49

And that brings us now to your sixth record. Uh

Alec Robertson18:52

And this will be Elda.

Alec Robertson18:54

You know, I love almost every note, every note, that Elga wrote, even in the little salon pieces.

Alec Robertson19:01

Or whatever have you, right up to the heights of things like Gurunches and this wonderful.

Alec Robertson19:06

He's for a string orchestra, I think.

Alec Robertson19:09

The greatest piece of string writing perhaps has ever been.

Alec Robertson19:13

I've chosen the bit at the end where the two themes have their apotheosis, and it's a great flood of lyricism lifts you right up and out of this world.

Presenter20:20

Elgar's Introduction and Allegro for Strings, played by The Sinfonia of London, conducted by Sir John Barbie Raleigh. Now we've dumped you on this island, Alec. How are you going to manage? Are you are you a practical person? Can you

Presenter20:34

Build things, look after your

Alec Robertson20:36

I can't build anything at all. I can just about hit a nail, not on the head.

Alec Robertson20:43

And um What about food? Food? Oh, I suppose it'd be bananas and oranges and things, won't it? Yeah. Do you know anything about fishing? Nothing. Cooking? Yes. Good. When I've got the materials.

Alec Robertson20:56

Would you try to escape? No, I'll stay.

Alec Robertson20:59

And let's have your seventh record.

Alec Robertson21:02

I chose Tchaikovsky at this point.

Alec Robertson21:05

Panorama from the Sleeping Beauty.

Alec Robertson21:08

to recall all that I've got out of the ballet and out of his music.

Presenter22:15

Tchaikovsky's Sleeping Beauty, Anatole Fistulari and the Paris Conservatoire Orchestra. And now we come to your last record. Watch that, please.

Alec Robertson22:24

You may think it a bit premature, but I've chosen the last movement of Gabriel Forre's Requiem. This is a brutal movement called Imparadism.

Speaker 423:09

Stay after

Presenter23:37

In paradisum from Foray's Requiem, the choir of King's College Chapel, Cambridge, conducted by David Wilcox. If you could take only one disc out of the eight you've chosen, which would it be?

Alec Robertson23:51

I would take for this requiem, that's uh the disc from which Imparadising comes.

Presenter23:57

And one luxury to take to the island with you?

Alec Robertson24:01

Well, can I have a piano?

Presenter24:03

Uh yes, an upright.

Presenter24:05

That'll do me very nicely, thank you.

Presenter24:08

and one book apart from the Bible and Shakespeare, which are already on the island.

Alec Robertson24:13

Yes, I'll take another book which is to me a musical Bible.

Alec Robertson24:18

If you allow me to do this, I would like to take Bach's 48 Preludes and Feudu. Right.

Alec Robertson24:25

Handsome

Presenter24:27

Thank you, Alec Robertson, for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc and for your hospitality in your beautiful West Sussex home.

Alec Robertson24:34

Thank you, Rosby. I'd like to meet you again and to have this chat together.

Presenter24:39

Uh

Alec Robertson24:39

Goodbye everyone.

Speaker 124:47

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Island Discs Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.