Artur Rubinstein

Speaker 10:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young, and this is a podcast from the Desert Island Disc's archive. For rights' reasons we've had to shorten the music. This is a recording as it was being broadcast, rather than the studio recording.

Speaker 10:14

and for that reason you may hear some interference.

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And some degradation in the sound quality.

Speaker 10:20

The programme was originally broadcast in nineteen seventy one.

Presenter0:24

Desert Island Discs

Presenter0:42

As usual, the castaway is introduced by Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:47

On our desert island this week is the international concert pianist whose career has spanned seven decades, Arthur Rubenstein.

Presenter0:55

mister Rubenstein, could you endure prolonged loneliness?

Artur Rubinstein0:59

I would like only to survive in the same condition as I'm living now. And I must say I'm grateful to Providence or to all the gods, whatever they are above us.

Artur Rubinstein1:10

To have reached my age in the condition I feel to be, you see, is I can still run, even I can run.

Presenter1:18

Is there any one thing you would be particularly happy to have got away from?

Artur Rubinstein1:24

As you see, I am used by now to be asked by interviewers, and they are charming people to ask me questions, always to limit myself. They always want to take something away from me. And I object to that very, very seriously.

Presenter1:40

But to take away something unpleasant.

Artur Rubinstein1:43

Well, if you if I must, you know, I mean, of course, if I'm going to prison, I know that they are going to take away from me freedom and then might be the good food and all sort of things and so on. But then I do feel condemned, you see.

Presenter1:58

Do you listen to records?

Artur Rubinstein2:00

I do, of course. Unfortunately I have to listen a lot to my own records.

Presenter2:05

Yes. Do you listen to other peoples as well?

Artur Rubinstein2:07

Yes, of course I listen to the record because I adore music and I discovered lately that there is quite a series of records which are really more apt to be heard in a room than the music in a concert hall.

Presenter2:22

Which music in particular?

Artur Rubinstein2:24

Well, particularly of course all the chamber music. I must say chamber music, the intimate chamber music, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven quartets, even the modern quartets lose a lot of their impact, of their real beauty, you know, in a large hall.

Artur Rubinstein2:42

It's too intimate, the sonority, I mean that created the word chamber music.

Presenter2:47

That's an interesting point.

Artur Rubinstein2:48

Uh

Presenter2:48

Yes. On what terms are you choosing your eight records? Are you choosing nostalgically or to give you great performances or?

Artur Rubinstein2:58

Music to cheer you up. Again, you see, you pin me down to something. I'm a man of of of moods.

Artur Rubinstein3:06

I learned from my friend Picasso something very precious. I was very astonished to see him painting always the same subject for about a month or two months.

Artur Rubinstein3:16

I told him, aren't you bored to do that every day? He said, What are you talking about? He was furious with me. He said, What a silly thing to say. I change every minute. The sun is different every minute. Every day is a new life for me. Everything is new again. I'm I'm a completely different person. And this picture

Artur Rubinstein3:39

Is every time absolutely different because I see it with other eyes. I'm another man. I can only ask.

Presenter3:45

You can only ask

Artur Rubinstein3:46

Thank you for your choice of the day.

Presenter3:47

Day.

Artur Rubinstein3:47

Uh

Presenter3:47

What is the first of your eight records that you have chosen?

Artur Rubinstein3:51

The first record which I chose today, I think it was the Piano Quartet of Brahms. It is the A major, you know, because it is the least popular of the three.

Presenter5:05

Part of the A Major Quartet by Brahms. At your request, Mr. Rubenstein, I'm not specifying which particular recordings these are, but...

Presenter5:16

I'm just playing the music that you ask for and not specifying the artist.

Presenter5:21

Let's have your second record. What's that to be?

Artur Rubinstein5:23

The Beethoven Quartet opus fifty-nine number one, when I was a boy.

Artur Rubinstein5:29

Joachim, the great violinist, was my tutor, was my second father, really. He looked after me for years. He gave me all my education, really. I owe him a tremendous lot.

Artur Rubinstein5:41

And he gave he gave me the great privilege.

Artur Rubinstein5:45

of being able to assist at his rehearsals, quartet rehearsals.

Artur Rubinstein5:51

And this very quartet which I chose remained in my mind with all the remarks he made and the heavily way he played it.

Artur Rubinstein6:01

I cried when I heard it for the first time.

Artur Rubinstein6:04

And I think the second movement is one of the most incredibly beautiful ideas of Beethoven.

Presenter7:11

Part of the second movement of the Beethoven Quartet Op. 59 in F major.

Presenter7:17

Mr. Ropenstein, you were born in Poland, in a part then under Russian domination. As a very small child, did you hear a lot of music in your home?

Artur Rubinstein7:26

I never heard any music at all. I had three sisters, much older than I was. They were already young ladies, they were eighteen, nineteen.

Artur Rubinstein7:37

And they had piano lessons, but without being very musical.

Artur Rubinstein7:41

And I played really better than my sisters when I was three. I played all their pieces much better.

Presenter7:49

Where did you make your professional debut?

Artur Rubinstein7:53

Professional, I wouldn't call it very professional. I was six and I was allowed to play in a charity concert in Warsaw and

Artur Rubinstein8:01

I remember only that I played three or four pieces at that concert and thought of nothing else but a big huge chocolate box which was given to me afterwards and I knew that I'm going to get it.

Presenter8:13

At the age of fifteen, I think it was, you went to live in Paris. When did you first appear in London?

Artur Rubinstein8:20

In nineteen ten, with Pablo Casals at Queen's Hall in Sonatas, he had his manager from London in Vienna while he was playing there. He was an old friend of mine already then.

Artur Rubinstein8:33

And so he absolutely persuaded me to come to London and give piano recitals. I had a protector, a Polish prince, Lubomirski, you know, who was ready to pay for those recitals, because in those times one had to pay.

Artur Rubinstein8:49

To be heard. My revenge now for that, you see.

Presenter8:51

Yeah.

Presenter8:55

In the first years of your career, inevitably a a mixture of success and and failure, did you ever know poverty? Were you ever hard up?

Artur Rubinstein9:04

Terribly hard up I was even pushed into almost suicide at the age of twenty.

Presenter9:09

You went to the United States and played at the Carnegie Hall in New York. You weren't a great success on your first visit to the States.

Artur Rubinstein9:15

Well

Artur Rubinstein9:16

I pretend I'm a little bit too modest about that. Actually, I had a very big success there.

Presenter9:22

Good. What do you think was the turning point in your career? What was the best thing that happened?

Artur Rubinstein9:28

Well, there you are again on that limiting me.

Artur Rubinstein9:31

Every day was the best thing that happened. Every hour. Yes. Always.

Artur Rubinstein9:37

Skin now.

Artur Rubinstein9:39

I wouldn't give one single moment of my life for another one.

Presenter9:42

And moving on to the 1920s, you had the reputation then of being something of a a playboy. You liked the the full rich life in in very pleasant places.

Artur Rubinstein9:52

Well, I must say this reputation I had only in England.

Artur Rubinstein9:56

Because quite casually, you know, it is it was really only casual that I became acquainted with very prominent people, you know, like Margot Asquith, Lady Diana Cooper, many of those people. See, and they took me I mean as as a friend, you know, they saw a lot of me, they invited me very much to dinner, I went out for dancing with the Prince of Wales, you know, I I mean so the critics didn't trust that a man who does all that could play decently a bit on sonata.

Presenter10:29

Let's have your third record now. What's that to be?

Artur Rubinstein10:32

A third record, oh yes I remember, Winter Reise, which I adored, also that has a sentimental memory for me because I heard it as a young boy by Arthur Schnabel at the piano and his wife Therese Baer.

Artur Rubinstein10:48

I sang it in Berlin and I was absolutely overcome. I think that was my very first

Artur Rubinstein10:55

absolutely shattering impression of sugar.

Artur Rubinstein10:59

I never, never could forget that.

Artur Rubinstein11:01

And so when I heard a good record of it, a brilliant record of it, of course, I would miss it very much if I couldn't hear it again.

Presenter11:08

So you want to specify a single in this case.

Artur Rubinstein11:11

Fischer Dieskow has sung it and I don't think that anybody could sing it better.

Speaker 411:18

Dear V Spirit Meat, Delaware Fanny of Mine of Stern's Hall.

Speaker 411:37

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 411:38

Uh

Speaker 411:39

His house is out to stay the sheep, so head him as Lord House and glorious thou and me.

Speaker 111:55

Inheritan be of him door.

Speaker 411:59

No need

Presenter12:13

One of the songs from Schubert's Winteriser, sung by Fischer Disker.

Presenter12:19

There can be very few countries in which you haven't appeared.

Artur Rubinstein12:23

Well, I played practically everywhere, but I'm sad to say I don't play in Germany. And please, I want to state it once more, I did that very often in public. I don't go to Germany only out of respect for the dead. And unfortunately, among the dead is my whole family, who has been most horribly assassinated. You know, I mean about a hundred people of my family, they were very numerous.

Presenter12:49

The question of respect.

Artur Rubinstein12:51

It's a question of respect, you see. I can't go to a country where such things happen. Where is your base now? Where is your home?

Artur Rubinstein12:58

I have now three homes, I must say. I have a lovely house in Paris and a small apartment where I would like to be incognito in Geneva, in Switzerland.

Artur Rubinstein13:09

and a charming home in Marbellia in Spain. See, I'm fond of the Spaniards and I think they are fond of me too, personally. We get along beautifully well, and there I'm writing my memoirs.

Presenter13:23

Splendid. Let's have another record.

Artur Rubinstein13:28

You make me regret all the others. That's so dreadful. You pin me down all the time.

Presenter13:31

You feel me down?

Artur Rubinstein13:33

Well, that is Bartock's concerto for the orchestra.

Artur Rubinstein13:38

This again has a sentimental background for me.

Artur Rubinstein13:41

I have known Bartock quite well. I remember even I heard and met him the first time at the mean little tiny bit of the Aulean Hall on Bond Street.

Artur Rubinstein13:53

We talked a lot and then I saw him in New York, very poor. You know that he died in misery. He was supported

Artur Rubinstein14:02

before he died by the Musicians' Emergency Fund.

Artur Rubinstein14:06

of which I am now, after Chrysler, the honorary chairman.

Artur Rubinstein14:11

It was heartbreaking.

Artur Rubinstein14:13

And then came the concerto which expresses all that, you see, for me.

Artur Rubinstein14:18

It's a great work.

Presenter15:15

Part of Bartock's Concerto for Orchestra. What's your next record?

Artur Rubinstein15:20

I think the Mozart piano concerto and C minor.

Presenter15:23

I know.

Artur Rubinstein15:24

If you give me the many, many concertos of Mozart to choose from.

Artur Rubinstein15:30

I invariably somehow put my finger on the C minor because I think it shows the real Mozart, not the Baroque Mozart, but the Mozart who did even outdo Beethoven in some ways in his simplicity.

Artur Rubinstein15:45

and this incredible economy of notes and so much music put into it.

Presenter16:51

part of the Mozart C minor piano concerto.

Presenter16:55

We've got now to record number six. What will that be?

Artur Rubinstein16:58

Are they the nocturnes of Chopin? Nocturnes of Chopin. Nocturnes of Chopin. Well, the nocturnes of Chopin would be my choice if you cruelly would just pin me down to those eight and not nine or fifty thousand records.

Artur Rubinstein17:14

Especially if there's a lovely night, you know, the moon shining, a lovely girl next to you is better still my wife, of course.

Presenter18:26

A Chopin Nocturne, and I know these recordings are anonymous, but that sounded astonishingly like you, Mr. Rubenstein. Now let's get on to record number seven.

Artur Rubinstein18:37

Number seven is at the Quintet of Schubert.

Artur Rubinstein18:40

Yes. But the quintet of Schubert really, if you like to put it number one.

Artur Rubinstein18:46

Because it deserves really number one in my heart.

Artur Rubinstein18:50

This is a quintet which I heard very much at night here in London when we had two years in succession, night after night, chamber music in the house of some friends of mine, Paul Draper and Muriel Draper. They lived in Kings Road. Is that Chelsea? In furthest Chelsea. Far out somewhere, you know. They had a studio and there, you wouldn't believe it, but Isai, Thibault, Chrysler, Casals, Tertis, Lionel Tertis, my beloved Lionel Tertis who is still here, and we made music till seven, eight in the morning.

Artur Rubinstein19:29

interrupting sometimes with a good supper here and there, but playing, playing, playing, playing. And the queenette of Schubert was always the highlight.

Artur Rubinstein19:38

played by those great ones. And I must tell you quite sentimentally, I asked my wife

Artur Rubinstein19:44

If I am

Artur Rubinstein19:45

dying in a decent way. I mean, you know, nice nicely going off.

Artur Rubinstein19:52

That she would play a record of this quintet to me, the second movement of this quintet to me.

Presenter21:00

The second movement of the Schubert C major quintet. And now we come to your last record. What's that to be?

Artur Rubinstein21:07

Well that the sonata of Schubert was the sister of the quintet. I consider him the brother, he's more male than than than the sonata. This sonata I played very late in my in my life.

Artur Rubinstein21:22

So it belongs

Artur Rubinstein21:23

Again to the family of

Artur Rubinstein21:26

The Chamber Music for Listening at Home.

Artur Rubinstein21:30

And I adore this work absolutely beyond anything I can say. I love to play it. It's each time a great experience and an honor to put my fingers on it.

Speaker 421:42

Uh

Presenter22:42

Schubert's Piano Sonata in B flat.

Presenter22:45

Mr. Rubenstein, if you could take only one of the eight records you've chosen.

Presenter22:51

Which would it be?

Artur Rubinstein22:53

I think I will take the quintet of Schubert.

Artur Rubinstein22:56

because I probably will die of boredom, you know, in general, being only there with one record. And I wanted to die listening to it, as I told you before. So that would help both of us.

Presenter23:09

As well as your eight records, you're allowed to have one luxury.

Presenter23:14

One thing, one inanimate object which it would be pleasant to have with you, a work of art or something quite frivolous, but nothing that's going to help you to live.

Artur Rubinstein23:23

I can only think of a revolver.

Artur Rubinstein23:25

Because I am sure I would kill myself after one or two days.

Presenter23:29

I don't somehow believe it, but you've asked for it and you shall have it. And one book apart from the obvious choices of the Bible and Shakespeare.

Artur Rubinstein23:39

Well I could be blindfolded and take any book out of my library because fortunately I have the other books in my head. I remember them, so I don't need to read them over and over again.

Presenter23:53

Right. And thank you, Artur Rubenstein, for letting us hear your Desert Island Discs.

Artur Rubinstein23:58

Thank you very much for your patience listening to me.

Speaker 124:09

You've been listening to a podcast from the Desert Islandists Archive. For more podcasts, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.