Joyce Grenfell

Presenter0:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition.

Presenter0:05

Yeah. Yeah.

Joyce Grenfell0:05

The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:08

Joyce, are you a Londoner?

Joyce Grenfell0:09

Yes, I am. I was born in London.

Presenter0:11

But you are slightly more than half American.

Joyce Grenfell0:14

Well, I'm a rather mixed uh lot, really. My father's mother was American from Rhode Island.

Joyce Grenfell0:20

He was born in New York. His father was English from Wiltshire. My mother came from Virginia.

Presenter0:25

Yes. On your mother's side the the celebrated Lady Astor was your aunt.

Joyce Grenfell0:30

Yes, she was my mother's older sister. There were eleven children. My mother came right at the end.

Presenter0:34

Yeah. As a girl, did you go through the Deb routine?

Joyce Grenfell0:37

Yes, I did. In in those days uh

Joyce Grenfell0:41

My friends all met each other, I think.

Joyce Grenfell0:45

At parties I suppose that goes on today, but not in the organized way that uh

Joyce Grenfell0:50

I wouldn't want to go through it again, though I enjoyed it enormously, to start with. I met my husband as a result, I suppose, of

Joyce Grenfell0:58

going to the that kind of dances and parties. And uh

Joyce Grenfell1:02

It was great fun in those days. We weren't perhaps so socially conscious as we are now, and I don't mean social social.

Presenter1:08

Yeah.

Presenter1:09

You were an art student for a while, weren't you?

Joyce Grenfell1:11

I was, briefly, as I always thought I was going to draw. I have a very small talent for drawing.

Presenter1:14

Yeah.

Joyce Grenfell1:17

And I love trying to paint in watercolours. I don't show anybody much what I do. It stays within covers. But it's the fun of the doing, really, and it makes a holiday to me.

Presenter1:26

And after you were married you began to write. You began to write verse.

Joyce Grenfell1:29

I wrote verse, I I uh contributed to Punch and things like country life and The Times even and The Observer, and I worked on The Observer for nearly three years as their radio critic.

Presenter1:39

Yeah.

Presenter1:40

And then, in a rather roundabout way, that brought you into the theatre.

Joyce Grenfell1:43

Yes, entirely by accident, and I've told it so often, but you know, going to a party, playing the fool, and Bertie Fargen hearing me describe a Winyan's Institute lecture.

Presenter1:53

Yes, I remember that monologue very well. Useful and acceptable gift.

Joyce Grenfell1:57

Absolutely, I could do it right now.

Presenter1:59

Hello.

Joyce Grenfell1:59

I will

Presenter2:00

You did it for nearly a year in the little review.

Joyce Grenfell2:03

Just over a year, yes, I did.

Presenter2:04

That was the beginning of the war, just about

Joyce Grenfell2:06

1939. We opened in April 1939 and the war came later that year.

Presenter2:10

And for a while you did it non-stop. It was non-stop before you were starting.

Joyce Grenfell2:13

We played it uh absolutely non stop, and the thing which was so disconcerting was when people got to the bit where they'd come in, you heard their seats banging up. That reduced you to size.

Presenter2:21

That reduced you to size.

Presenter2:23

You were in several other Herbert Farchen reviews after that.

Joyce Grenfell2:26

Yes, briefly in one called Light and Shade that didn't go

Joyce Grenfell2:30

for very long. And then in in diversion

Presenter2:33

Yes, which was a bit of a

Joyce Grenfell2:33

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter2:35

Yes. Very topical title in those Blitz days.

Joyce Grenfell2:37

Was it not? And we played matinees only.

Joyce Grenfell2:41

For six months at Wyndham's.

Presenter2:43

Yes.

Presenter2:44

Of the rest of the war years you devoted to entertaining troops all over the place. How many countries did you ever count?

Joyce Grenfell2:50

Yes, I did. Fifteen countries. The job was a a a rather special one. Isolated units and hospital wards. Yes. You know, there were proper troops of entertainers doing the concert halls in the hospitals or the army barracks and things.

Presenter2:58

Uh

Joyce Grenfell3:05

But um I was sent to the places where you it wasn't worth sending a big company, you know.

Presenter3:11

No audience too small is a story of you stopping to entertain two lonely chaps guarding a pipeline.

Joyce Grenfell3:16

It's driving.

Presenter3:16

It's miles from anywhere.

Joyce Grenfell3:17

Yeah, somewhere in Iraq or Iran. And once

Joyce Grenfell3:20

I entertained uh I think it was in India some small pox patients in a in a in a smallpox tent, and we played just outside.

Presenter3:30

We

Joyce Grenfell3:30

We being of the girl who played the piano for me and me.

Presenter3:33

When the war was over, it was back to West End Review. What was that Noel Card Review called?

Joyce Grenfell3:39

Sinomal

Presenter3:40

That's right.

Joyce Grenfell3:41

Lovely song he wrote called Signor More, do you remember?

Presenter3:41

La Vaison.

Presenter3:43

Yes, I do.

Presenter3:45

And then there was Tuppence Coloured and Penny Plain. In all those reviews you used mainly your own material.

Joyce Grenfell3:51

I think almost entirely. In Noel Coward's review I did This is the end of the news which he had written.

Presenter3:58

Yes.

Joyce Grenfell3:59

and which he cleaned up for me to use.

Presenter4:01

Ha ha ha ha.

Joyce Grenfell4:02

And in uh I think it was Penny Plain I did a number written by my cousin Nicholas Phipps. It was Maud's refusal to come into the garden and why.

Presenter4:11

I remember rather scandalous.

Joyce Grenfell4:13

Well, no, she was rather priggish about the whole thing.

Presenter4:17

And in those years just after the war you did a great deal of radio, the How series, for instance, How to Listen to Radio, etc. etc.

Joyce Grenfell4:22

How to listen

Joyce Grenfell4:25

With Stephen Potter.

Presenter4:26

Yeah, yeah.

Joyce Grenfell4:26

One of the real pioneers of of overheard radio, wouldn't you say?

Presenter4:30

Yes. You and Stephen used to write the scripts by ad-libbing them in a single day, was that right?

Joyce Grenfell4:36

That's right. We used well, that's not quite true, really, but we ad-libbed a good deal. There were no tapes in those days. and marvellous people from the B B C would come and take down in shorthand what we were improvising.

Joyce Grenfell4:47

And then we'd get the scripts and we'd add and take from and all that sort of thing. And you were in a lot of those programmes, as I remember.

Presenter4:54

I had the honour to be one of the select members of the Howell Rapporteur Company.

Joyce Grenfell4:57

Very well indeed.

Presenter4:59

And of course we were together and we begged to differ. We had a long run in that.

Joyce Grenfell5:03

I very much enjoyed that with Gilbert Harding and Kay Hammond and John Clements and Gladys Young.

Presenter5:09

Yes.

Joyce Grenfell5:09

and Charmian Innis.

Presenter5:11

Two men versus four women.

Joyce Grenfell5:12

Yeah.

Presenter5:12

And I was a sort of

Presenter5:14

Neutral chairman, a hermaphroditic role, especially in the middle.

Joyce Grenfell5:18

You did it very well, as I remember. It got better, as it got more serious, didn't it?

Presenter5:19

Brother.

Presenter5:21

Yes, we got more serious towards the end of the year.

Joyce Grenfell5:23

It's awfully boring talking about who should do the washing up.

Joyce Grenfell5:26

But when we got on to important questions, I think sometimes some quite interesting things were said.

Presenter5:31

Yeah.

Presenter5:32

Where did you make your first film?

Joyce Grenfell5:34

I think it was during the war. It was a kind of propaganda film that Carol Reed directed. It was for America, and it was called Letter from England. Celia Johnson was supposed to be writing the letter to her children, who had gone to stay with an American woman, played by me.

Joyce Grenfell5:52

And she is writing the letter. You hear her voice and see everything that she is doing.

Joyce Grenfell5:57

And there were a few shots of me. That was my first.

Presenter6:00

Yes. Which have been your favourites among the many that you've made since?

Joyce Grenfell6:04

Well, you know, every time you make a film, it's...

Joyce Grenfell6:09

It's a pleasure, I think. I've enjoyed it very much.

Joyce Grenfell6:12

I enjoyed playing that little tiny bit in Genevieve very much.

Presenter6:16

Oh, the the landlady.

Joyce Grenfell6:17

Yes. And then I enjoyed the only American experience I had, which was quite different, a serious part, in a movie called The Americanization of Emily.

Presenter6:26

You made that in Hollywood.

Joyce Grenfell6:27

In Hollywood, yes. And it wasn't really different from making it here, just as chaotic.

Presenter6:33

Joyce, we haven't talked yet about your entertainments, your one woman shows, uh, an evening with, etcetera. This must have needed quite a lot of courage to start doing an entire evening on your own.

Presenter6:44

Wasn't that rather daunting?

Joyce Grenfell6:46

Well, you know, in a funny way it's what I'd been doing all the time, though not in London. Um it was what I was doing in the war when I was doing the hospitals in isolated units, and I also did a lot of concerts for the Arts Council. I think they were called Arts Council in those days, I can't remember, but that kind of thing. So it had a lot of practice. And Lauria Lister said, Don't you think it's time you tried and did it in London? And so I I first did it, as I remember, at the Lyric Theatre Hammersmith.

Presenter7:05

Yeah.

Presenter7:15

How many times have you played the United States now?

Joyce Grenfell7:18

Oh goodness.

Joyce Grenfell7:20

I should think eight or nine.

Joyce Grenfell7:22

I've done two New York seasons. and some isolated concerts at things like Town Hall.

Joyce Grenfell7:28

But uh I've been round the country many times.

Presenter7:31

Do you change your material for America?

Joyce Grenfell7:33

Nope.

Joyce Grenfell7:34

No, nor for Australia, where I've been four times, nor Canada, where I've been

Joyce Grenfell7:38

Well, I shink almost as many times as America, because I usually do can at the same time.

Presenter7:42

Yes.

Presenter7:43

Your satire is very gentle. Nobody ever gets hurt. Has anyone ever complained?

Joyce Grenfell7:49

I once had an anonymous letter from a lady when I was living in the Kings Road, Chelsea, and she took me to task for mocking at people who spoke with a Cockney accent.

Joyce Grenfell7:59

It seemed to me a

Joyce Grenfell8:00

Odd criticism, because what I'm interested is not the Cockney accent, it's the character, it's the individual.

Presenter8:05

Yes. But you don't actually imitate individuals. Your characters are an amalgam, are they?

Joyce Grenfell8:11

That's right. I have been inspired by real people, but not to imitate the way they sound so much as the way they use the English language. And I have a favourite character. She's the Vice Chancellor of an English University.

Joyce Grenfell8:25

And she is based on a woman to whom I was devoted a great character. I never was able to use the voice she had on stage because it doesn't carry. She spoke with a very warm and rather velvety voice.

Joyce Grenfell8:38

And her phrases were quite unique. For instance, I did a benefit concert for her up north, and she wanted to give me my expenses. So she said My dear Joyce, we have not yet touched on the sordid topic of coin.

Presenter8:57

Now you've been broadcasting quite a lot recently for the BBC Religious Department. This is a new and I should imagine very rewarding.

Joyce Grenfell9:04

Very interesting and I'm very grateful for the opportunities. It's been happening slowly and gradually, and I still get an opportunity from time to time.

Joyce Grenfell9:13

Um to me religion is really a way of life. It's got very little to do with Sunday.

Presenter9:18

Yes. Which has been your most successful talk?

Joyce Grenfell9:21

I wonder I think it was one perhaps in which I talked about

Joyce Grenfell9:28

The spring being a a spiritual concept and going on forever, I can't really remember.

Presenter9:35

and conservation is another interest.

Joyce Grenfell9:37

Very much so, very much so. And the preservation of rural England. I did an appeal for the Council.

Presenter9:43

Mm-hmm.

Joyce Grenfell9:43

Because I think it's a very important thing. I mean, we've got to think of people in the future that

Presenter9:48

The vital thing.

Joyce Grenfell9:48

What do you think? Here we are with the country going on at the moment full of green

Joyce Grenfell9:55

And supposing, in what, fifty years' time, sixty years' time,

Joyce Grenfell10:00

There are no more bluebells there are no more primroses. It's a deprivation. Mark you, people don't know what they're missing, but at the same time I think they should be allowed to know.

Presenter10:09

Yes, I'd rather see bluebells than plastic bags.

Joyce Grenfell10:11

Much rather. Oh, that thing of plastic bags You were saying something on a beach you'd seen some.

Presenter10:17

Yes, for the first time on a French beach in northern France not a few months ago I saw a continuous line of plastic bags some action of the tide, I suppose on the high watermark.

Joyce Grenfell10:26

And did you know that if you use coloured paper napkins and coloured lavatory paper,

Joyce Grenfell10:33

The paper dissolves, but the dye doesn't.

Presenter10:36

No, I don't know.

Joyce Grenfell10:37

And that we should never use anything except white.