Anna Scher

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Kirsty Young. Thank you for downloading this podcast of Desert Island Discs from BBC Radio 4. For rights reasons the music choices are shorter than in the radio broadcast.

Presenter0:10

For more information about the programme, please visit bbc.co.uk/slash radio four.

Presenter0:34

My castaway this week is the drama teacher Anna Scherr.

Presenter0:38

When she set up her theatre school in London more than four decades ago, children queued round the block to get in. Cathy Burke, Martin Kemp, and Pauline Quirk were among those who handed over their tenpence pieces every week, and the cast of East Enders would have been sadly depleted without a long line of Schur's graduates.

Presenter0:56

It's more than ten years since depression forced her to step down.

Presenter1:00

But when she tried to return, there was no job for her leading the organization which bore her name, so she started again, set up a new school, and recruited a new group of teenagers. Teaching is the love of my life, she says. Teaching is everything for me. It's my raison d'être. I'm wondering, Anisha, what do you say to those young

Presenter1:21

Eager teenagers who come through the doors for the first time dreaming of their leading role in Oliver or starring part in EastEnders.

Anna Scher1:29

Well, I give them the ground rules.

Anna Scher1:33

that we start with discipline.

Anna Scher1:35

But our staple is improvisation, and that makes for very believable actors. We have many actors over the years in

Anna Scher1:43

East Enders. And that's the way to do it, I think, you know. How old are the kids? Well, we start them at six and then we go up to people in their sixties. There's no upper age limit.

Presenter1:56

And do they come in with I'm wondering if they and sometimes with their parents slightly nudging them from behind do they come in with stars in their eyes? Do they think, Ah, yes, this is the woman who makes the stars who get on the telly?

Anna Scher2:06

That used to be, but not so much now. I think they come for the sake of the class, and there's a lot of bonhomie.

Anna Scher2:14

in the classes that we run.

Anna Scher2:16

Um they've no illusions as to how overcrowded the theatre is.

Presenter2:21

I wonder what you make of the current culture for, you know, the sort of Britain's Got Talent, X Factor, all those kind of shows that, you know, pull in.

Anna Scher2:26

Yeah.

Presenter2:29

Tens of millions each weekend. They do encourage youngsters to think that there's a quicker road to fame that, you know, if you just get in front of Simon Cowell. Yes.

Anna Scher2:37

Yeah.

Presenter2:37

Riches will be yours. What do you make of all of that?

Anna Scher2:39

Yeah.

Anna Scher2:41

Well, I don't like to see the pressure on the children.

Anna Scher2:47

But

Anna Scher2:48

I do enjoy the shows.

Presenter2:50

You do enjoy the shows, that's interesting. What do you enjoy about them?

Anna Scher2:51

That's interesting.

Anna Scher2:54

Well, I enjoy the critiques.

Anna Scher2:57

But I I like it to be constructive criticism, not destructive.

Presenter3:00

It's interesting that in this current X Factor series, Gary Barlow, who has been there, seen it, done it, says that he does worry about children being just not quite mature enough to take the criticism. What's your perspective on that?

Anna Scher3:11

Yeah.

Anna Scher3:14

I agree with Gary Barlow. I think to be heard publicly is not a good thing.

Presenter3:21

And what about you when you see the the people who've come up through the ranks of your classes? You see them on stage or on television? And how do you feel?

Anna Scher3:28

Oh, very proud.

Presenter3:31

I'm like a proud mum.

Presenter3:33

We're going to go to the music, of course, Anna Shara. Tell me what we're going to hear first of all today.

Anna Scher3:38

This is Brown Eyed Girl by Van Morrison.

Presenter3:41

And why have you chosen this?

Anna Scher3:43

It's a wonderful, tuneful tune and it makes it for a very good warm-up.

Speaker 43:50

Hey, where did we go?

Speaker 43:53

Days when the rains came

Speaker 43:57

Down in the hollows

Speaker 44:00

Playing a new game

Speaker 44:03

Laughing and running, hating.

Speaker 44:06

Skippin' and a jumpin'.

Speaker 44:09

In the misty morning forward

Speaker 44:12

Ah, my heart's the found bare in you.

Speaker 44:17

From the

Presenter4:19

That was Van Morrison and Brown-Eyed Girl. You chose Anisha just really because it's a fabulous piece of music, but you did have, I understand, an encounter with Van Morrison.

Anna Scher4:27

Yes, I did. We were both doing the Gloria Honeyford Show.

Presenter4:28

What happened?

Presenter4:31

Mm.

Anna Scher4:32

And one of my sayings is the smile is stronger than the scowl.

Anna Scher4:38

I was feeling particularly smiley, so I tried the smile scowl test on Van and failed miserably.

Presenter4:45

What is the smile scowl test?

Anna Scher4:47

Well, let me try it on you. If you just give me a scowl and look into my eyes, and I give you a smile.

Presenter4:48

Yeah.

Anna Scher4:55

And you see it wins.

Presenter4:56

And I actually was trying quite hard there.

Anna Scher4:58

Well, there you are.

Presenter4:59

But he didn't. He didn't, didn't he?

Presenter5:03

When I was preparing to talk to you today, I I read a lot about you saying it was important to diffuse anger and you know, sort of reconciliation and words that I wouldn't really have expected to be associated with.

Anna Scher5:09

Sort of

Anna Scher5:13

Yes.

Presenter5:13

Yes. Well, you know, just a drama class. So, do you find with with your children then that that anger's sometimes quite close to the surface, that you have to get rid of it?

Anna Scher5:21

Well, they they get rid of their anger by doing improvisations.

Presenter5:26

Right.

Anna Scher5:26

And then we have uh an olive branch where they reconcile.

Presenter5:33

Shouting quite easily. Is that where people go when you ask them to improvise? Yes. They become dramatic.

Anna Scher5:36

Maybe

Anna Scher5:37

Yes, that's right.

Presenter5:38

That's right.

Anna Scher5:38

And and then w we do an olive branch to make up. Explain more to me about that. Well, peace studies play a part. I've done peace workshops all over the world integrating

Anna Scher5:53

say Catholic and Protestants, when I was in Northern Ireland and did some peace workshops there.

Presenter6:00

It would be easy to be sniffy about it. It would be easy to say

Presenter6:04

Drama, peace workshops, in places that are in, you know, the greatest turmoil imaginable. What difference, tangible difference, do you see them make?

Anna Scher6:13

Enjoyment is the key.

Presenter6:14

Right.

Anna Scher6:15

And it's integration through improvisation. So with the uh with Rwanda I integrated Hutus and Tutsis.

Presenter6:23

This would literally be in a class. You wouldn't have people from both ethnic groups there, would you?

Anna Scher6:27

Yes. How would you even get them there? Well, I have a facilitator. He comes with me and does the workshops with me. I use Peace People.

Anna Scher6:38

As a reference point, my great heroes are Martin Luther King, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, and Frank.

Anna Scher6:46

And we use those as the reference point and we base the workshops round them.

Presenter6:52

I'm wondering if the people who come along to your workshops, in a sense you are preaching to the converted, you are speaking to the Hutu who is predisposed towards sitting in a room with a Tootsie, the ones that you maybe need to get to.

Presenter7:04

are the ones who won't come.

Anna Scher7:06

Well, I don't worry too much about that. As I said, enjoyment is the key note, and they love the high standards. They absolutely every place I've been to, when I went to Israel, I

Anna Scher7:19

integrated Jews and Arabs in a bomb shelter.

Anna Scher7:22

As I said, you you have to have a facilitator to set up the location and so on.

Presenter7:27

And how do you get there? Do you sort of just turn up with your facilitator and give it a go?

Anna Scher7:32

I get invited. Northern Ireland I've been over there about seven times.

Anna Scher7:37

I think it's it stays in their mind. It stays in their mind.

Presenter7:43

And what about being the moral arbiter? Do any of your students ever say to you, Well, who are you? Who are you today?

Anna Scher7:48

Review

Presenter7:49

To tell me how I should be. I'm here to learn to act, Anna. I'm not here to sort of listen to you tell me what you think's important.

Anna Scher7:56

Well, in improvisation is the staple, so they just fall into it by

Anna Scher8:02

By nature. When I started as a school's drama club in nineteen sixty-eight now,

Anna Scher8:08

There was enormous class, there was about seventy in the class. And a lot of those people were non-readers, so I fell into improvisation by chance.

Anna Scher8:18

And I found that that was a very effective way of character training.

Presenter8:24

Let's have some more music then. Tell me what we're going to hear as disc number two.

Anna Scher8:28

Sunrise, Sunset from the soundtrack to Fiddler on the Roof.

Presenter8:33

And particularly why why have you chosen this?

Anna Scher8:35

Because I find it a very moving piece of music and topple.

Anna Scher8:40

I think he's got so much charisma and empathy in his voice and compassion. I really love it.

Speaker 48:49

Sunrise, sunset, sunrise, sunset. Swiftly fly the years.

Speaker 49:02

One season for in the love

Speaker 49:08

Little with happiness.

Speaker 49:12

Amteach.

Presenter9:17

That was Sunrise Sunset, the cast recording from Fiddler on the Roof. So, Anna Scher, let's go back then. You were born in Cork. It was nineteen forty four. Jewish Lithuanian family, which sounds interesting. Tell me what you remember of those very early years.

Anna Scher9:33

Well, I believe I've got green blood. I I love Ireland. I went to uh a convent school. In fact, I had the dubious distinction of being the only Jewish girl.

Anna Scher9:46

in the convent school. And I used to go tap dancing. I really loved it, singing and dancing. It was my life. Life was bliss there.

Presenter9:57

What did you like about it? What did you like about being on stage when you were little?

Anna Scher10:00

I just loved it. I really loved it. And I loved doing the pantomimes every year.

Anna Scher10:07

And I used to count the Christmas trees on the way to Cork Opera House, where we did them.

Anna Scher10:13

In fact, Cork Opera House I was in at the night it burned down. Goodness me, you you were

Presenter10:17

You were performing or or?

Anna Scher10:20

It burned to the ground. I mean, we all got out safe and sound. How old would you have been? I must have been twelve. Goodness me, so that must be seared.

Presenter10:30

On your consciousness.

Anna Scher10:31

Yes, it is. I remember looking up at the amber sky.

Presenter10:31

Yes it

Anna Scher10:36

The whole sky was amber.

Anna Scher10:38

And that was the end of the Cork Opera House.

Anna Scher10:41

What about lessons? Did you enjoy lessons too? Oh, yes, I did. I loved it at the convent school.

Anna Scher10:47

and I lived there till I was fourteen, and then the family moved to Hove in Brighton.

Presenter10:51

And you said you had the distinction of being uh the only Jewish girl in the convent. Were you aware you were the only Jewish girl in the convent?

Anna Scher10:59

Oh yes, I was, because I went to synagogue on a Saturday.

Anna Scher11:03

And I didn't attend the Catholic prayers at school, you know, so I I was made very clear.

Anna Scher11:10

I had two cultures to embrace: the Irish and the Jewish.

Presenter11:14

Describe to me a little bit more about Cork in in the late nineteen forties. What sort of a town was it to live in?

Anna Scher11:20

Oh, it was lovely. The nuns were so kind, and there was a massive moral compass there, and it seemed as if people were happy.

Anna Scher11:34

and wanting to do their best. I have a memory of Cork when we left the Innesfallon boat took us to England, and I looked out and there were all my class, with their green uniforms, waving goodbye to me.

Anna Scher11:52

And I was absolutely in tears, floods of tears, because I'd left Cork.

Presenter11:58

We'll take a break now for some music then, Anisha. Tell me what we're going to hear now. We're on on your third disc to day.

Anna Scher11:59

Yeah.

Anna Scher12:03

This is Bob Marley and One Love. And why have you chosen this? I've chosen it because when I do my piece workshops

Anna Scher12:13

This is the song that that all the children seem to love.

Speaker 412:18

Wanted love.

Speaker 412:21

On the floor.

Speaker 412:23

Let's get together and

Speaker 412:26

Feel alright. Hear the children crying. Hear the children crying. Saying give thanks and praise to the Lord. And I will be alright. Saying, let's get together and feel alright.

Presenter12:47

That was Bob Marley and one love. So, Anna Scher, you were the eldest of four girls. When you were little, how did you get on in this busy house?

Anna Scher12:56

Ah, we got on brilliantly.

Anna Scher12:58

We had a very strict father.

Presenter13:00

Right. What was allowed, what was not allowed.

Anna Scher13:02

Well, he called me a good time girl because I I loved going out and dancing.

Anna Scher13:09

But he insisted I became a teacher before an actress, and he said no daughter of mine shall ever be an actress. You become socially useful and become a teacher first.

Anna Scher13:23

Which of course I'm very grateful that I did become a teacher first because I think acting I would not be right for. Why not?

Anna Scher13:32

Well, I think I would have been rejected.

Presenter13:35

Too many casting directors telling you to to go away.

Anna Scher13:38

Yeah.

Presenter13:38

And do you think he actually saw something in you that he thought would be useful as a teacher? Do you think he also recognised that?

Anna Scher13:47

Yes, I think he probably did.

Anna Scher13:49

But I mean his view was no daughter of his was going to be a good for nothing actress. He wanted me to be a dentist, like him. He came from a family of four dentists, and he used to bring these prospective teenage dentists to meet me, to our mutual embarrassment.

Presenter14:09

Or as suitable suitors.

Anna Scher14:10

Yes, that's right.

Presenter14:11

Right.

Anna Scher14:12

And what did he think of having four girls?

Presenter14:14

Carl's in the house.

Anna Scher14:15

Oh, I think he found it.

Anna Scher14:19

pretty stressful, even though I think we were very well behaved. But he took his responsibilities very seriously and, you know, he gave us a very good education and um a nice home.

Presenter14:32

And tell me in the early years, tell me about your mother. Wh when you were a little girl, what are your memories of your mum?

Anna Scher14:38

Mum was very easy to get on with and she made the costumes for us to wear at the tap dancing classes and she wanted me to do the pantomimes and things. You know, she was very talented with her hands.

Presenter14:53

Father was she quite liked a little bit of Schubis, did she?

Anna Scher14:56

Yes, she did.

Presenter14:56

East.

Presenter14:57

Yeah.

Anna Scher14:57

She did, and there was arguments as to whether I would do the pantomime every year and she always defended me. But as I said, with mum and dad, I was the thorn between two roses rather than rose between two thorns. But mum, bless her, won the day.

Presenter15:17

And did it make for I mean, between your parents, was it genuinely tense? I mean, were there proper arguments about it, or it was really, you know, just a a bit of jesting?

Anna Scher15:25

Oh, they were pretty tense. Mm.

Anna Scher15:30

I remember there were terrible arguments about it. But I mean, to be fair to Dad, I think, you know, he he was worried that I would be an actress and he knew how precarious it was.

Presenter15:42

Yes, and also around about that time it was a profession with a sort of disreputable reputation, it would be fair to say.

Anna Scher15:48

Yes, I think it would be.

Presenter15:49

It was certain sorts.

Anna Scher15:50

Yeah.

Presenter15:50

We were attracted to that and they probably weren't dentists' daughters.

Anna Scher15:54

Yeah.

Presenter15:54

Very well put.

Anna Scher15:55

Uh

Presenter15:55

Yeah.

Anna Scher15:55

Kirsty.

Presenter15:56

Let's have some more music then. Well, in fact, it's not music now. Tell us what we're going to hear now. We're on your fourth disc of the day.

Anna Scher16:04

This is part of Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech.

Presenter16:08

And why have you chosen this?

Anna Scher16:09

Well, Martin Luther King is one of my great heroes.

Anna Scher16:14

And when I do my peace workshops all over the world and in class.

Anna Scher16:21

I incorporate them in my drama classes, and Martin Luther King had such passion.

Anna Scher16:28

in his voice.

Anna Scher16:29

Yolanda King, his daughter who's sadly not with us now.

Anna Scher16:33

came to our thirtieth birthday.

Anna Scher16:37

and we put on Martin Luther King speech and we held hands.

Anna Scher16:42

and walked through the theatre.

Anna Scher16:45

Like sisters.

Anna Scher16:46

And that was the most memorable moment in my life.

Anna Scher16:52

And Martin Luther King h it was like his

Anna Scher16:56

Spirit was was there.

Presenter16:59

For rights reasons, we are unable to bring you this choice.

Presenter17:04

That was part of Martin Luther King's speech I Have a Dream delivered on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in March 1963. It was a very poignant image, Anna Scher, that you shared with us earlier on of waving goodbye to your school chums. You were in your early teens, were you about fourteen? I was fourteen. You were fourteen. And you were travelling to Hove. Yes. And why? Why did the family uproot itself?

Anna Scher17:21

You were fourteen.

Anna Scher17:26

Well, I think my father felt that we would have m more educational opportunities in England.

Anna Scher17:34

And I didn't want to go, certainly, and mum didn't want to go either. But that's what we did, because go we must.

Presenter17:41

Was it the sort of family I mean, you've mentioned t tensions in the family, were you able to say to your mum and dad, I don't want to go, why are you making me go? Or did you just buckle down and get on with it?

Anna Scher17:50

I buckled down and got on with it.

Presenter17:51

Yeah. And there came a point when the family essentially broke up. Your mother left. At what point at what point did that happen?

Anna Scher17:57

So one point

Anna Scher18:00

That happened, I think, about a year later. Did you have any warning of that? No. But it was extraordinary because I went to school the day she left.

Anna Scher18:10

and I had a terrible feeling something was wrong.

Anna Scher18:14

So I begged the headmistress, Miss Brown, to let me go home and I came home.

Anna Scher18:21

And there was the inevitable note on the table.

Anna Scher18:26

And I contacted my dad and she was gone. And um anyway she she left and she had a child.

Anna Scher18:38

Dad was devastated.

Anna Scher18:40

The child, however,

Anna Scher18:42

you know, my sisters and I have met him.

Anna Scher18:45

And he is just adorable, he really is.

Presenter18:49

Even now it's almost one of the last taboos a mother to up and leave her brood. At the time, how did your mother explain it to you? Did you talk to her about why she'd done it?

Anna Scher19:00

Um

Anna Scher19:01

She said she'd never forgotten.

Anna Scher19:03

You know.

Anna Scher19:05

'Cause we met up with her years later.

Presenter19:07

How many years later?

Anna Scher19:09

Um six, about six years later.

Presenter19:13

You didn't see her at all for six years. Though

Presenter19:16

No. And when she told you that she had thought about you every day, was that enough?

Anna Scher19:21

You see, I I could never blame her in any way. I'm not into blame anyway, but uh he was difficult to live with.

Presenter19:31

And did she go on and make a whole new life? She had a as you say, she then had a son and

Anna Scher19:34

And had a son and a new life with her son. I mean, he's now forty or so. He he has turned out just an example, as the nuns would put it.

Anna Scher19:47

Very, very gentle, lovely, lovely young man.

Presenter19:51

And so you were reconciled with your mother after six years and you didn't blame her. What about your other sisters? How did they feel?

Anna Scher19:54

Yes, and you didn't

Anna Scher19:58

Well well, my father called it the family tragedy.

Anna Scher20:02

And uh he was very, very upset, terribly upset.

Presenter20:08

How did you come to be reconciled, given that you say it was a period of six years from actually meet up with your mother again? Can you remember?

Anna Scher20:16

Um I don't know. I just did some research. I mean there there weren't computers and things then. I think I made a few calls.

Anna Scher20:25

And we met up.

Anna Scher20:27

in Victoria Station.

Anna Scher20:29

And we both passed each other in the station, not realizing.

Anna Scher20:34

And she

Anna Scher20:36

She always had a very good sense of humour. She said, What took you so long?

Anna Scher20:41

But, you know, w we met up and my other sisters met her in due course. I was the first one.

Anna Scher20:49

She was very sad. It was very hard for her. It was very hard for her.

Presenter20:55

You've gone on, of course, to to be a mother yourself. We we'll talk about your son later, but

Presenter21:00

When you became a mother, did it did it cause you to look differently upon what your own mother had done?

Anna Scher21:05

I put it down to dad being

Anna Scher21:09

Very tricky, as I said, I don't blame her at all.

Presenter21:14

It's uh time now, Anna Scher, for our next piece of music. We're on disc number five. What is it, and why have you chosen it?

Anna Scher21:22

Buddy Holly and reigning in my heart. I love Buddy Holly. And when he died I kept a lone vigil.

Anna Scher21:34

in front of his photograph in Woolworths in Cork, and that was nineteen fifty nine and there was just me and him terribly upsetting, but so memorable.

Speaker 421:50

The sun is out, the sky is blue, There's not a cloud to spoil a view, but it's raining.

Speaker 422:02

Raining in my heart

Speaker 422:08

The weatherman says clear today He doesn't know you've gone away and it's raining

Presenter22:15

Go.

Speaker 422:20

Uh

Presenter22:20

Reigning in My Heart. That was Buddy Holly and Reigning in My Heart. You were in raptures there, Anisha. I threw out all of that. Back at the window in Woolworths in Cork. Um so tell me about it it started just as a lunchtime drama club. You you'd become a teacher.

Speaker 422:26

That's right, all the

Anna Scher22:30

Go ahead.

Presenter22:36

You were teaching English and drama, enjoying it, and then you started this lunchtime drama club.

Anna Scher22:41

Yeah.

Presenter22:42

It started with how many people.

Anna Scher22:43

seventy.

Anna Scher22:44

And improvisation was the staple from the beginning because many of the children were non readers, and this was a quicker and fairer way to get round all the classes, that every voice gets heard.

Presenter22:58

And when did the Lunchtime Drama Club become the Anna Schirr Theatre School?

Anna Scher23:03

Well, I ran it for two years, and then

Anna Scher23:06

The children that were leaving at eleven to go on to their secondary schools were coming back to me.

Anna Scher23:12

So the drama club was too big for the school. So I I found a hall across the road from the school and I stayed on at the school as a English and drama teacher. And I took the drama club outside the school. And it would be fair to say, I mean the

Presenter23:27

The school was a huge success. I'm going to do a little roll call of people who've been through your school. We've got the Kemp brothers, Gary and Martin Kemp.

Anna Scher23:31

Then it's for you.

Anna Scher23:34

That's my

Presenter23:34

Patsy Palmer from EastEnders, Susan Tully, who was in Grange Hill, and then EastEnders, as Pauline Quirk and Linda Robson, two of the three birds of a feather. And also, you've gone on to write as well stacks of books on the subject of acting. Once you started the theatre school, did you feel that you'd really hit your stride? Did you think this is what I was meant to be doing? I love this.

Anna Scher23:57

I did really. Yes, I did. And of course Cathy Burke, who is an absolute angel. She's just

Anna Scher24:05

I'm just full of praise for her. She's fantastic. But they all were, and and many more. Can you remember the first time Cathy Burke came through your swing doors? Well, she c she came in to the Juniors and I saw this wonderful girl that was

Anna Scher24:21

Bright as a button and talent absolutely flowing out of her. So the school was a big success.

Presenter24:28

Then it was what just over ten years ago now that that you realized that you were

Presenter24:32

You are unwell. What what happened?

Presenter24:35

But

Anna Scher24:36

Cult depression.

Anna Scher24:38

Depression is an illness.

Anna Scher24:41

And with illness you can often get better.

Anna Scher24:46

So I just was hoping and praying that I'd come out of it.

Presenter24:51

And at the time, what I I read an interview with you where you said, you know, you were one of those people who was sort of up at six in the morning and straight into work and full of energy and a real powerhouse. What was the difference when you got ill? How did you feel?

Anna Scher25:05

I felt I couldn't get up.

Anna Scher25:07

It was terrible because I couldn't control it.

Anna Scher25:10

It was a shocking

Anna Scher25:12

Feeling

Presenter25:12

Yeah.

Anna Scher25:13

Uh

Presenter25:13

Did it come completely out of the blue, or had you had episodes of depression before?

Anna Scher25:17

I had depression before. Right.

Presenter25:19

Right.

Anna Scher25:19

Uh

Anna Scher25:20

Routine but not rut.

Anna Scher25:23

That's what I applied to myself just keeping to a good daily routine. Inch by inch, life's a cinch. Yard by yard, it's very hard. So I just took one day at a time.

Presenter25:38

Let's have some music, then. We're on our sixth disc for the day, Anna. Tell me about that.

Anna Scher25:43

This is dedicated to Ireland and two very dear friends in my life, Carl Damond and Alan Mills. So it's Danny Boy sung by Carl Damond accompanied by Alan Mills.

Speaker 425:58

Oh, Daddy Boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling.

Speaker 126:02

What?

Speaker 426:08

From glen to glen, And down the mountainside

Speaker 126:09

Glen to gland.

Speaker 426:17

The summer's gone and all the roses for thee

Speaker 426:27

Tis you, tis you must go, and I must.

Presenter26:36

That was Danny Boy, sung by Carl Damond, accompanied by Alan Mills, both of them your friends and colleagues over the years, Anna Scherr. Um we were talking a moment ago about this uh episode of depression that you suffered and and you said latterly that I was in such terrible mental pain that it became physical. I felt like a block of cement. That's very descriptive.

Presenter27:00

You'd resigned from the theatre school that you set up, and you returned two years later. When you did return, your position had been filled. That that must have been, I can only imagine, a very distressing time, was it?

Anna Scher27:12

Yes, that was very stressful and um

Anna Scher27:17

I wanted my ol old position back, which is was principal.

Presenter27:22

Yeah.

Anna Scher27:22

Uh

Presenter27:22

The people who by then were running the school, the board members, of course they're not here to share their version of events. You entered into what was a protracted battle. And one of the letters that you were sent, as I understand it, you were advised that

Presenter27:38

And I'm quoting directly here, classes cannot be used as a platform to advance issues such as peace studies, discrimination studies or the like. Th th one of the issues was that they felt you weren't concentrating on the things that an acting school should be concentrating on. Is that fair?

Anna Scher27:54

Well they

Anna Scher27:56

weren't really enamored with peace studies. They wanted me to put all my classes through the

Anna Scher28:06

new director and on to the board.

Presenter28:09

Do you think I mean

Anna Scher28:11

Uh

Presenter28:11

Some people might say, well, you know, mi maybe they had a point. Actually, maybe peace studies do not belong in a theatre school. Maybe it's better to just sort of stick to what people expect to learn when they come through the doors of a theatre school. How would you respond to that?

Anna Scher28:23

School.

Anna Scher28:26

Well, basically this is how I do it.

Anna Scher28:29

You know, and the students weren't complaining.

Anna Scher28:32

And these are classes which for thirty-two years they seem to be fine about.

Anna Scher28:39

I

Anna Scher28:40

feel it was unfair.

Presenter28:42

And you had the um the gumption, the steely determination, having recovered, to start all over again. Ooh, that must have taken a lot of energy.

Anna Scher28:53

Not really. Um you know, it it's uh it's up and running now, and it's it's okay, but I I miss the old building very much. Yeah.

Presenter29:05

And what about uh your husband? Did he support you in starting a w?

Anna Scher29:09

Over again. He was very supportive. He's an adjudicator for our Festival of Plays three times a year.

Anna Scher29:16

And he he runs drama classes himself.

Anna Scher29:19

Yeah.

Presenter29:19

Time to hear some more of your choices then, Anishair. Tell me what we're going to hear as your seventh choice today.

Anna Scher29:25

When You Are Old by WB Yeats, read by T P McKenna, Yeats's wonderful poet, Ireland's number one poet, and it's very touching.

Presenter29:38

And poetry is a big part of of your life. You use poetry in your classes, do you?

Anna Scher29:40

But you would like

Anna Scher29:41

Yes, I do. Every day we have poems. Let's hear this piece.

Speaker 129:48

When you are old and grey, and full of sleep,

Speaker 129:52

and nodding by the fire.

Speaker 129:55

Take down this book.

Speaker 129:57

and slowly read

Speaker 129:59

And dream of the soft look your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep.

Speaker 130:05

How many loved your moments of glad grace, And loved your beauty with love false or true

Speaker 130:13

But one man loved the pilgrim's soul in you, And love the sorrows of your changing face.

Speaker 130:22

And

Speaker 130:24

Bending down beside the glowing bars,

Speaker 130:27

Murmur

Speaker 130:28

A little sadly.

Speaker 130:30

How love fled And paced upon the mountains overhead

Speaker 130:35

And hid his face.

Speaker 130:37

amid a crowd of star

Presenter30:40

That was When You Are Old by W. B. Yates, read by T. P. McKenna.

Presenter30:45

Anna Shar, you've mentioned in passing a couple of times your your husband. How involved has Charles been in your business of theatre school over the years?

Anna Scher30:54

very involved. We worked together in the main school for many years. He's now back being a adjudicator for our Festival of Plays, and he does a brilliant job.

Presenter31:07

Is it true all those years ago that you proposed to him?

Anna Scher31:11

I think I did.

Presenter31:13

Were you just tired of waiting?

Anna Scher31:16

Um well, I think we were happy as we were partners and um

Presenter31:22

Was there a little bit of your father's voice when you were a dentist's daughter, I'm wondering? You could well be right. And you have a son together, yes. He's thirty one. He's thirty one. And did he ever uh as a much uh younger boy, did he come along to your classes ever?

Anna Scher31:24

Yeah.

Speaker 131:30

Yes, John.

Anna Scher31:33

He's thirty-one. He's thirty-one, yes.

Presenter31:41

He did.

Anna Scher31:42

Yeah. But uh it wasn't for him. What did he say? You're not like you are.

Anna Scher31:48

Oh, I know.

Presenter31:50

Interesting.

Anna Scher31:51

Yes. My persona maybe was not the person he knew.

Presenter31:56

Right, that's interesting. There'll be no children, or indeed sixty year old students, on this island, where I'm about to maroon you two. How would you cope, on the island, do you think?

Anna Scher32:07

I'm afraid very badly. Would you? Why is that?

Presenter32:09

Would you?

Presenter32:10

Why is that?

Anna Scher32:12

I'm not good at DIY. Right. There'd be no chance to ask how do you do it. So I I I think I would fail miserably. You don't think you'd employ the old inch by inch, it's a cinch.

Presenter32:31

To pick me up. Fair news. Let's have your final piece today then, Anna Sher. What are we going to hear? As disc number eight.

Anna Scher32:38

Red Dragon and Compliments on Your Kiss. And you've chosen this why? Well, it's a feature at the Anna Show Theatre. We have it at the end of the class.

Anna Scher32:49

And I ask different people to compliment who they want in the group and why it was they were so good. So it's a lovely way of complimenting someone and getting c some constructive criticism across. And then we have this music underneath.

Anna Scher33:07

And then the recipient of the compliment says thank you. And teachers have told me that they've tried this in class and it's worked like a dream.

Speaker 433:16

Compliments girl on your keys You're number one girl on my list

Speaker 433:23

Memory time I've been gone

Speaker 433:30

I wish that you could have been my good

Speaker 433:33

How to take you down?

Speaker 433:37

Every time I think of you I wait

Speaker 433:41

Hey, who are you sexy body?

Presenter33:45

That was Red Dragon and compliments on your kiss. So, Anna Scher, I'm going to give you the books now: the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare. You're allowed to take one other along. What are you going to take?

Presenter33:57

Yeah.

Anna Scher33:58

I'd like to take poem for the day.

Anna Scher34:02

which has got three hundred and sixty poems.

Anna Scher34:05

Old and new. Right. You may have.

Presenter34:07

Foam every day. You may have that. And a luxury too. What would your luxury be?

Anna Scher34:13

I'm very, very keen.

Anna Scher34:16

on Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Speaker 434:19

Yeah.

Presenter34:19

Mm-hmm.

Anna Scher34:20

I'd like a statue of him.

Presenter34:23

I was gonna say, no, you can certainly have this to have

Anna Scher34:23

Yeah.

Presenter34:25

Uh

Anna Scher34:25

Definitely. Yeah.

Anna Scher34:27

and his right arm is in a position like a high five. Right, in the st of in the statue. In the statue. I've got you. That's right. And then I would come along and I would high five him.

Anna Scher34:41

And it would trigger off his famous

Presenter34:43

laugh. Right, so this is a bespoke statue, then. This is not one that exists? No. Right, we shall have that made for you. Sounds splendid. And if you had to choose just one of these eight discs, which one disc would you choose?

Anna Scher34:55

It would be Bob Marley and One Love because it always reminds me of the children I teach and it brings me right across the world.

Presenter35:07

It's yours. Anna Scher, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you very much.

Presenter35:48

You've been listening to a download from the BBC. You'll find more information on the Radio 4 website: bbc.co.uk slash Radio Four.