David Morrissey

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is the actor David Morrissey. For over 40 years he's been a welcome presence on our screens, playing everything from a ruthless survivor of the zombie apocalypse in The Walking Dead to former Prime Minister Gordon Brown in The Deal. He's starred in stories set everywhere from Britannia's Roman Empire to James Graham's Sherwood. If there is a common thread in his work, it may be an examination of masculinity. His characters are often men struggling to maintain the facade they present to the world as they wrestle with inner turmoil, whether it's a buttoned-up headmaster in recent murder mystery Gone or hapless grandfather to be Malcolm in the BBC comedy Daddy Issues. He was born in Liverpool, a city that he says took the arts seriously. The famous Everyman Theatres youth programme embraced him during a tumultuous time in his teenage years and from then on he declared his intention to become an actor to anyone who would listen. He says, I did what you're not supposed to do and put all my eggs in one basket. But I looked after that basket. David Morrissey, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

David Morrissey1:51

Thank you very much. It's a real pleasure to be here.

Presenter1:53

Delighted to have you, David. So despite your focus on acting from such an early age, you say that you're not a perfectionist.

David Morrissey2:00

No, I'm I'm very mistrustful of perfectionism. I mean, I think uh sometimes it means that you don't get started.

David Morrissey2:07

But you know I take my work seriously and I want people to bring everything to it and work hard and be researched and all that. But I find that the real creativity is in the sort of in the mess really and the more you try to control that mess the less sort of magical it can be, you know. I used to get really hung up on an audience's reaction.

David Morrissey2:29

both good and bad. You know, if I got a laugh one night, I'd chase that laugh the next night until it sort of died really. But it's it's really freed me up not to care too much about where it lands. It's what do I want to do? Where's the story going? What do I want to do with this character?

Presenter2:46

You're known for your meticulous preparation. You can go quite deep down a rabbit hole, I think.

David Morrissey2:51

I can.

Presenter2:51

What's the deepest you've ever gone?

David Morrissey2:53

Well, when I did Gordon Brown, I w I was surprised that sort of people from MI5 weren't arresting me outside his house in Scotland and stuff. I did do a lot of research into him. I never met him.

Presenter2:54

You're smile, which is a good one.

Presenter3:02

Scott Lambert.

David Morrissey3:07

But I met a lot of people who knew him, and it was very obvious for me from early on that there was two people. There was the public person who was very accessible, I could find him, but that private person he kept very guarded.

Presenter3:20

So how do you get into that

David Morrissey3:21

So I get really nosy really. So I'll pick up a phone, I'll talk to people that might be peripheral to the characters or in that job. And usually people want to talk. You know, when you meet people, if they're teachers or policemen, they want to tell you their story. You know, what helps me when I'm doing the job.

Presenter3:23

It was so I

Presenter3:38

You know.

David Morrissey3:41

is when I've looked in the eyes of a policeman who's been through some of the circumstances that my characters are doing, or a teacher or whatever, and then I hold that responsibility all the way through the job.

Presenter3:52

Amise

David Morrissey3:52

Six o'clock

Presenter3:53

But

David Morrissey3:53

The p.

Presenter3:53

Osa

David Morrissey3:53

It's for you too, I think. Well, music is a part of it for many reasons. I always do a playlist for the character.

David Morrissey4:00

I actually do two playlists. So I do a playlist for the music that I think that character would listen to.

Presenter4:05

Okay, so say for Gordon Brown, what's that?

David Morrissey4:08

Well, Goldenberg was a lot of Scottish folk stuff, really, and sort of traditional sort of Scottish music. Whether he listens to that or not, there was something very traditional about him, I felt. There was something steeped in that sort of country. It was about the sort of the shipyards and the countryside and all that. You know, he was a union man from that place, and then Edinburgh University and all that stuff. So it was very much about Scotland in that playlist. And then the other playlist I do is a mood playlist, because when I'm on a film set, everyone's got to go to work. You know, you've got to have the electricians who've got to do the work, props people, everyone.

Speaker 24:15

Yeah.

Presenter4:16

Yeah.

Presenter4:27

Yeah.

David Morrissey4:46

But I've got to be on set and I'm you know, I can't shut them up all the time because they're working. So I put my earpods in and I'll listen to mood music for the particular scene. Sometimes it can be a banger because I need to have a lot of energy. Sometimes it can be something that pulls on the heartstrings a bit more. And it keeps me in a moment whilst everybody else is working. So yeah, I tend to just lock out with music as well.

Presenter5:02

Yeah.

Presenter5:09

Well, that's Andy. Perfect for today. What does that mean about putting your discs together? Music's obviously important to you. Has it been difficult?

David Morrissey5:15

Oh, it's been oh Laura, it's been awful. It's been absolutely awful. It's been torturous. I mean, I had a playlist of four and a half hours long at one point and I thought, I wonder if they'll go with that. And I'm still very nervous about what's coming at you.

Presenter5:32

Well, I think on that note, we should get started. Let's just get into it. Disc number one, please.

David Morrissey5:36

Well disc number one is the one tune that's always been on my list. Even before you you know you invited me on this show, I always thought, I wonder what would be on my Desert Island discs. And it was this track has always been on it.

David Morrissey5:48

It'll come as no surprise to people growing up in Liverpool and also being a Liverpool supporter. I've sang this song all over Europe. I've sang it standing next to my brother and next to my son and next to you know 80,000 other people. If you don't get football you don't get it but for me it's a really really important part of my life and when I stand up with in the Amfield singing this song or anywhere across Europe it really means a lot to me. So this is Jerry and the Pacemakers with You'll Never Walk Alone.

David Morrissey6:29

And you

David Morrissey6:32

I feel like

Presenter6:52

Jerry and the Pacemakers and you will never walk alone. So David Morrissey, let's go back to the beginning. In Liverpool, you were born there in 1964, the youngest of four children to Joe and Joan. What are your memories of early family life?

David Morrissey7:08

I was born in the house that like my grandmother had been married in. I have a photograph on the wall of her wedding day, which is taken in the yard that I grew up in. And it was a classic sort of back to back sort of house, really, with a outside toilet and a tin bath and

David Morrissey7:23

And there were seven of us in there. It was my grandma.

Presenter7:25

Yeah.

David Morrissey7:26

So the seven was my mum and dad, my grandmother and the four kids.

Presenter7:30

Okay.

David Morrissey7:31

We were all on top of each other really. My mum and dad had the front room where their telly was, my grand then had the next room and then there was the kitchen that we all

David Morrissey7:39

You know, did everything in really. And then upstairs there was three bedrooms. And I shared with my mum and dad for a bit before I went in with my brothers. But my sister shared with my grandmother for a long time, you know. But those houses were condemned even when I was sort of born really. So we were waiting for them to be knocked down.

Presenter7:40

Everything

David Morrissey7:58

R Street, which was Selden Street, was one of the last to go. So there was just this waste ground of rubble.

Presenter8:04

I mean, those clearances were were very common in you know, all over the country in that period. I I saw a photo of you five years old, I think five or six, about to make your first Holy Communion in your suit and everything with your with your mum outside the house.

David Morrissey8:15

You see

David Morrissey8:17

Uh-huh.

Presenter8:18

What comes to mind for you when you see that picture?

David Morrissey8:20

I have mixed feelings about it really, but in retrospect. Um my brothers were much older than me and my sister was you know six years older than me. They were off doing their stuff really. The church was a big thing, you know, over my first Holy Communion was a big thing. I went to a Catholic school. We left when I was eight.

Presenter8:37

Yeah.

David Morrissey8:39

And we went to a new estate in Notty Ash. It was like a new housing, a straight

Presenter8:44

Did it feel like luxury?

David Morrissey8:46

It did at first, but what happened was my dad got ill very quickly when we were there. It was w I think it might have been our first Christmas there. And I was sitting on the sofa and he was on the chair watching T V and then he suddenly got up and went into the hallway and I heard this horrible noise. And I went out and his ulcer had burst. So he was lying on the hall floor and just like blood coming out of him. And my mum rushed down, she had hold of him and she was trying to hold him and on the phone to the ambulance. And I just froze really and watched it. And it was really

Presenter9:23

Yeah.

David Morrissey9:25

You know, I can still see it now.

David Morrissey9:28

My dad survived. He was in hospital. We went to visit him in hospital. But that started a series then of him being ill and fragile and slightly distant. I was really close to my mum and I never really from then on I was frightened of that. I was frightened of what I saw really.

Presenter9:46

Yeah. Uh Yeah.

David Morrissey9:47

and that it could happen again. And then he was very ill then until he died when I was fifteen.

Presenter9:52

So you said you were very close to your mum. Tell me a little bit more about her. I want to come to your dad, but but start with your mum, Joan, first. What what kind of person was she?

David Morrissey9:59

Oh, she was really sociable, my mum. People would light up when they saw her. She was an Avon lady, which was like really really important. She worked in Littlewood's catalogue. That was one of her jobs, but her other job was being an Avon lady.

Presenter10:11

But he

David Morrissey10:14

She was brilliant at it because she was so sociable and she would have these Avon parties.

Presenter10:19

They should have people round and getting products out and everything.

David Morrissey10:20

Doing all that with the little catalogues, makeup, you know, makeup. We had moon, wind, talc, and soap on a rope, and all that in the house. It was just great. Smelt amazing. And then these big boxes of makeup and products would arrive, and she'd have to divvy them up for different customers. And I'd help her with that. And that was one of my favorite things: these big boxes arriving and then putting them in piles for different people. And I saw the world through her, really. You know, one of the things that she did, my mum, was she would parent in her absence through catastrophizing stuff. So she was very much about the bogeyman and stuff like that. She was very much about telling me stories she'd read in The Echo, in the Liverpool Echo, about some boy who got killed crossing the road. So, you know, and things like that.

Presenter11:08

She wanted you to be careful.

David Morrissey11:09

So she wanted me to be careful and she s and she instilled that into me so much that I was quite anxious about the world, quite frightened of it. But that's how she did it really. And also the evidence in front of me with my dad as well was that the world was was quite unsafe.

Presenter11:15

My fright.

Presenter11:23

Not a safe place, you know.

David Morrissey11:25

But uh yeah, I mean, I adored her and she was very you know, unlike my dad, she saw my success and really uh shared in that. And uh yeah, I was very proud that she got to see my work.

Presenter11:37

David, let's have some music. I think it's time for your second choice today. What's it gonna be?

David Morrissey11:42

So this is all about my mum. The first conversation I remember having, which was

David Morrissey11:48

Other than, you know, What's for Tea and Have You Seen This Thing on the Telly? Was about this song. It was on the radio, and it's a story, and it's sort of a complicated story. It's a multi-character story. And I remember saying to my mum, Gosh, that's really sad, isn't it? And we had this discussion, the first time we had this empathetic discussion about other people and other people's lives, and what it's like being a child, what it's like being a parent. And I knew when I was having this conversation, something different was happening. A connection was happening, another world was opening up to me. A sense of just what the story brings, but also talking about story itself and how story can move us and open up things to us. And it was a really powerful moment to me. So it's the Beatles, She's Leaving Home.

David Morrissey12:38

She we gave her most of our lives.

Speaker 312:43

Believe in sacrifice most of our lives

Speaker 312:50

We gave their everything money Home after living.

David Morrissey12:58

In the Lord so many years

Speaker 213:05

Father

Presenter13:07

The Beatles and she's leaving home. So, David Morrissey, tell me a bit more about your dad, Joe. I mean, before he got ill, what was life like for him? What did he do for work?

David Morrissey13:17

Oh, he was a cobbler, really. He was he worked in a it was a heel bar, so it was like you he may not do shoes, but he would do engraving and he'd do key cutting. I've always been slightly embarrassed by my hands,'cause his hands were workers' hands, ingrained with leather and glue and stuff. And him and my mum met in Timpson's. She was on the shop floor, and he was down below doing all the repairing and stuff. And yeah, they caught it and got it together. And uh my earlier memories of him in the house was that, you know, he worked hard. He was someone he had his own shop. He worked for a company called Mr. Minutes, but it was his shop, and him and his mates ran it, and it was just round the corner from where the cavern was and and round there in Liverpool.

David Morrissey13:59

I mean, he was just a really great guy, I think. He had a lot of friends and stuff, and but when he got ill, I sort of sli I feel like I lost him a bit. Like he was so fragile from then on and sort of

Presenter14:11

I mean, it sounds like it was traumatic for him to go through that experience and and to not know what was happening to him must have been terrible.

David Morrissey14:16

Exactly. And then and the insecurity then of, you know, your health and what that means to you, but then financially, what does it mean to you as a family? How how are you going to carry on? And my mum and dad, they didn't talk about th things to me. W people just didn't. You know, when my dad died,

Presenter14:25

Yeah

David Morrissey14:35

Either funeral happened and

Presenter14:36

So you were fifteen?

David Morrissey14:37

Yeah, and after that, you know, my brother you know, I remember my brother coming home the day my dad died and gave me a hug and stuff. But quite quickly afterwards we were all supposed to go back to sort of life as normal. I remember seeing my mum through the through the front window.

David Morrissey14:53

coming towards the house with these shopping bags. And I thought, oh, who's that old woman? you know and it was my mum and she looked drained of of everything, of any vitality.

David Morrissey15:04

And I suddenly realized that that's what it meant, that she was carrying this real grief and sorrow. But as soon as she came through the door, I didn't mention it, I didn't say, You're all right, you know, or anything like that. We just carried on, you know, where's my tea? sort of stuff.

Presenter15:10

Boom.

Presenter15:16

We didn't work.

David Morrissey15:18

And I I really regret that I was spo I was able to speak to her.

David Morrissey15:22

Later in life.

David Morrissey15:24

But you know dad was very

Presenter15:24

What what did she say when you did speak to her?

David Morrissey15:29

Stoic about it. The day my dad died, that night I went to the Everyman for a drama session. Don't think I told anybody in the session, I just got on with it. And at the day of his funeral, I went to the drama set. Because that was sort of, it rescued me. Going to the Everyman Youth Theatre, I suddenly found my tribe. I found people who were vibrant, they were experimental, they lacked embarrassment, they lacked all that stuff of don't talk about it. The stuff that was going on at home and at school where people were very private and held and sort of caged. They had none of that. And I suddenly went, oh, I want this. The first thing I ever did, I did two shows. I did a nativity play when I was about probably about eight. And it was a different sort of nativity play where I played an old man coming down the aisle of the church and my mum saw me. And afterwards, I remember her saying, God, I didn't know you. You're so great. You know, I thought it was an old man. And that look in her face, I thought, oh, I want that.

David Morrissey16:31

And then I did The Scarecrow in Wizard of Oz. And I remember getting on stage and the audience laughed and I thought, oh, I want this. You know, I wasn't a footballer. I was an academic. When I heard that audience react to something I'd done, I thought, yes, please, I'll have that. And then I went searching for that and I got it at the Everyman. And the main theater was full of actors like Tracy Allman, Jim Brawl Ben, people like that. And Anton Lesser, who I remember going up to and badgering him and saying, I want to be an actor, I want to be an actor. Can you help me? And he did. He took me seriously. People like Pete Pothers were, they took me seriously. None of the actors in the main company ever told me to go away.

Presenter17:03

And he did.

David Morrissey17:11

They all sat down and said, Well, what are you doing about it? Do you know about drama school? Do you know about the stage newspaper? What They all took me seriously and wanted me to succeed, wanted to help me. You know, they passed on what they knew.

Presenter17:23

David, I think this is a good moment to go to the music. What's your third disc?

David Morrissey17:27

This is Leonard Bernstein with the soundtrack to On the Waterfront.

Presenter17:31

And why are you taking that to the island?

David Morrissey17:33

So this is all about my dad as well. So, you know, it was quite an odd relationship with my dad. There wasn't a lot of chat. He had his chair, he sat in his chair. As I said, he was quite often quite frail. And I'd sit on the sofa. And one night we must have been watching something quite late.

David Morrissey17:52

And the announcer came on and said, and next is this movie.

David Morrissey17:57

And my dad said, Oh, this is a great movie, this, this is great and he got up off his chair and he came and sat next to me.

David Morrissey18:03

And I was amazed. I was like, oh great, great, we're going to watch a movie. And the music started, and my mum came into the front room and she said, What's this? And my dad told her, she said, Oh, he's too young to watch that.

David Morrissey18:15

So I had to go to bed and this this music was playing as what I've just said. And I was really upset for many reasons. But years later I saw the film. She was probably right, to be honest. But when I saw the film I thought, God, I wish I'd shared this moment with my dad. That was it.

Presenter19:31

Part of Bernstein's symphonic suite and the soundtrack to on the waterfront, performed by the New York Philharmonic Orchestra, conducted by Leonard Bernstein.

Presenter19:40

So David Morrissey, your dad's illness cast a long shadow over your childhood. You talked about how it affected him, obviously, and your mum. What about you? Was there a sense that you had to be careful, that you had to you were walking on eggshells around your dad a bit?

David Morrissey19:55

Yeah, very much in the house that did feel to for me, you know, that you'd come home from school and mum would go would shush me sometimes because, you know, dad was having a sleep or whatever. I've always had a fear of the key of the door, not so much hearing it from inside the house, but actually getting it out of my own pocket and putting it in the lock of thinking, what's behind that door? What am I going to find when I go in? Will everything be okay? Or has something happened? What's the atmosphere like?

David Morrissey20:26

And I had that for years actually, but it came it stemmed from that time.

Presenter20:31

It's interesting that when you say that that key in the door thing, so so in that case, you have to kind of find your refuge outside the home then?

Speaker 220:39

Uh

Presenter20:39

You've talked about very fondly about the Everyman Theatre, but also about Liverpool, you know, as a place. You said growing up in Liverpool, you felt you were at the centre of the universe. So where did you go when you needed to feel happy, to feel free?

David Morrissey20:54

The Everyman had a bar underneath it called the Bistro, and you'd be in there and sort of, you know, Echo and the Bunnyman would be sitting in the corner, or, you know, Teardrop Explodes would walk in, or Pete Wiley would come in and stuff. And then you'd see them on top of the pops on a Thursday night, you know. And then, you know, just down the road was Manchester, and that scene was happening. So you did feel that you were at the center of the universe. The Beatles at that time were slightly on cool. But knowing that they'd walk down the very streets that you were walking down and they'd achieved world fame, it did give this kudos to the city and you as a member of the city, and then the football on top of that.

Presenter21:08

Yeah.

Presenter21:31

David, you know, listening to you talk, like despite everything that you were dealing with at home, you sound like such a motivated, engaged young man. You know, you're interested in everything, working really hard, you're on the board of this theatre. It's making me wonder how you got on at school. You know, was that potential and that engagement embraced there and spotted?

David Morrissey21:50

No, no, not at all. I got good friends at school. I was head boy of my school, which was w weird. But um, it was a secondary modern. They didn't do any drama, so I had to go and find the drama myself. It was very much like the school in Kez. It was chaotic.

David Morrissey22:06

You were not encouraged as a young lad in my school to put your hand up and answer a question in the class. That would guarantee you get your head kicked in in the in the schoolyard afterwards. It was quite oppressive.

Presenter22:15

Right.

David Morrissey22:17

I made good friends there. I really did. And and have them today. But I did feel.

David Morrissey22:24

Uh cheated out of that.

Presenter22:26

And for you, do you remember when you started telling people, I want to be an actor, I'm going to be an actor? Because I think you were quite intentional about it, really.

David Morrissey22:34

I was. I was very entirely...

David Morrissey22:38

Cares was a big film for me, but I also saw an episode of Cold It with Michael Bryant, where he pretends to go mad in order to escape. And that troubled me. It really upset me.

David Morrissey22:51

I identified with him, his character, his situation. And that sort of thing that bubbled up inside me, I wanted to find out how to control that or understand it. And therefore, I went looking for acting. I went looking for a way out. And when I walked into the door of the Everyman, I found it. I found these people who were having fun but experimenting. And it was about emotion. It was unashamedly about feelings. And I've spoken to a couple of actors of my generation about that episode, and they all remember it. They all remember it. And he was, you know, he was someone who pretended to go mad so that the Germans would have to let him go.

Presenter23:26

Roman touchstone isn't it?

David Morrissey23:34

And he succeeds in that. And then just at the end, the con the British commander comes in and reads this letter from his wife saying, We're sorry he's in an institution now, but thanks for looking after him when he's and he'd driven himself mad by trying to go mad to escape. And that broke my heart. I mean, it was just wild.

David Morrissey23:52

So

Presenter23:55

Yeah, emotional just remembering it. David, let's take a minute and go to the music, shall we? Yeah, so those.

David Morrissey24:01

Yeah, those men who were important in my life. There was another guy called Albert Byron, and he taught me about film and books and music as well, different types of music. And he would take me to like the corner house to see Tarkovsky's mirror and all those stuff. And it was a real education, and I owe him so much. I remember going around to his house once and he played me this, and it was like a revelation. And I bought the album, and then I've taken it with me everywhere. And it's Keith Jarrett's clone concert.

Presenter25:36

Keith Jarrett, The Beginning of the Cologne Concert from 1975.

Presenter25:42

David Morrissey, you left school and you left home at sixteen and got a job, I think, with the Zip Theatre Company based in Wolverhampton. What did your role entail?

David Morrissey25:52

At that time Thatcher had brought in this thing called youth opportunity programmes, YOPS, and they were basically to take people off the dole.

David Morrissey26:00

You got paid £23.50, I think, but if you left your hometown, you got paid 28 quid. And a couple of my mates had found this, it was called Volunteers in Another City or something like that. And a couple of my mates just decided to apply for it. And I applied for it, and it was this theatre company, Zip. And we got there, and they were great. It was four drama students from Birmingham who got together, formed their own company. We did a little bit of acting, but really what we did was we made the set, we made the costumes, we tour with them. They toured all these Midlands sort of venues. What kind of sh?

Presenter26:36

What kind of shows?

David Morrissey26:37

Well, the panto was the big thing.

Presenter26:39

Oh yeah.

David Morrissey26:39

Yeah, we did Mother Goose. The main actor in it was the guy who ran the company called John Lingodlin and he was like mother goose and he wasn't going to let you get anywhere near a gag and he was brilliant. And we would do a children's sort of party in the morning, maybe like a school in the afternoon. But in the evening we'd do these working men's clubs and the show, you can imagine, changed during the day. Rather more blue as it was. It was like, yeah, it was a revelation to see it. But he was amazing. And I was there for six months. I was away from home. That was difficult. I found that very difficult.

Presenter27:05

Rather more blue as the hours were.

David Morrissey27:17

Oh.

Presenter27:18

That must have been tough for your mum as well,'cause that's what, a year after your dad died? Yeah.

David Morrissey27:21

Yeah, it was. I just knew I wanted to get out. I had to.

David Morrissey27:25

Be on my own.

David Morrissey27:27

Part of the thing for me.

David Morrissey27:29

With my dad's illness and all that stuff was that I was left in no doubt that it was up to me. Whatever was going to happen, it wasn't going to happen for my parents or anything like that. I had to make it work. And I knew that academically I was never going to be able to go to university or anything like that. That was never going to happen to me. So I had to make it happen somewhere else. It was hard for my mum, but I knew I had to cut the strings and find independence.

Presenter27:51

Mm.

David Morrissey27:56

You know, they say that that hyperindependence is a trauma response. I do tend to cut off sometimes.

David Morrissey28:03

And you know, I've

David Morrissey28:05

I am a recovering alcoholic. I was someone who has been sober now for 21 years. And that was all part of that, being in trauma, not knowing how to stop, being sort of in a depressive state and sort of just, you know, needing to be on my own. Drinking first was about anxiety. It was about I've had this terrible social anxiety and that helped me get through it.

Presenter28:30

And does that go back to your teens then?

David Morrissey28:31

Yeah, it really does.

Presenter28:32

Bose.

David Morrissey28:33

And Liverpool is a party city. You would have been abnormal not to drink, you know. But then I got later on in my life, in my adult life, I couldn't stop. And I wasn't drinking to be convivial and I wasn't drinking to sort of get through the anxiety. I was just I was on my own in the pub, you know, and that was really hard and very hard for my ex-wife and um and people around me.

Presenter28:35

Yeah.

Presenter28:38

Yeah.

Presenter28:50

No, I'm not sure.

David Morrissey28:56

I worked with a guy on a job. He gave me his number on the job and I knew he was in AA. And then two years later, I was in a terrible, terrible state. And I phoned him quite late, like early in the morning time. And he came round to my house and just sat with me. And that was I've not drank since that day really. So it's been tough. I mean the other thing for me is when I stopped drinking I didn't stop being an alcoholic. My behaviour was still very self-destructive for many years.

Presenter29:25

When you look back at yourself now as that young lad leaving home, leaving school and moving to a new town at 16, it's interesting because you describe the sense with you're anxious about the world and also socially anxious and isolating yourself, but really brave. How brave to do that? How do you feel looking back at you when you were that age?

David Morrissey29:47

Now I feel I was in crisis a little bit, but the thing that rescued me was work. And so that's why I've always had this weird thing with work, is that's where I feel safe. There's a great Barry Humphreys quote where he's sort of on tour as Dame Edner and he's doing all these different functions and stuff. And then at the end of his busy day, he walks out on stage as Dame Edner in front of 5,000 people. And his immediate thought is, alone at last.

David Morrissey30:16

And I can relate to that. Like when I'm in work, I feel safe. I feel I know not not necessarily in control, but I feel it's where I should be. In my life I'm less less confident around that. I'm always looking for an exit strategy.

Presenter30:33

And I

Presenter30:37

Mm-hmm.

David Morrissey30:38

In every situation, yeah, even now.

Presenter30:40

Even now, the door's behind you.

David Morrissey30:41

Yeah, it's that type of thing. I do not go anywhere. I'm much better nowadays.

Presenter30:43

I've

David Morrissey30:47

But for a long time I was really

David Morrissey30:51

Telling myself I wasn't enough and all that stuff. And that added to the sort of the alcoholism, really, and the the inability to stop.

Presenter30:59

So as a teenager, worldwise, things took off for you pretty quickly. You were only eighteen when you got your first big break. You were cast in the Channel Four drama one summer. It was much talked about, very well reviewed, and I think gave you your first taste of fame, really. How did it feel to be recognized?

Speaker 231:06

But

David Morrissey31:17

It felt great at first and then got very strange. I was actually 17 because I had my 18th birthday on it. And I, you know, you do it. And then I had a bit of money in my pocket. So I went traveling. I went to Africa and stuff. And then I was sitting in Nairobi in this hotel having a coffee or something. And there was a guy in front of me with a newspaper and he turned it round. It was the Times and there was a picture of me on the paper. So I went over and asked him if I could borrow it. And it was a review for the first episode. It came out and I didn't know.

David Morrissey31:49

So I thought, well, I better get home. So I got home. I got to Houston and people were looking at me. And I was like, this is very weird. This is odd.

David Morrissey31:58

And then I got on the train and people were always looking, still looking at me. And then I got a cab to my mum's and the cab driver was like all over the place. He was like, oh my God, I've been watching you and all that. Instead of taking me home, he took me to his house first to introduce me to... To show you off. Yeah, to introduce me to his brother, I think it was. I was like, hello, you know, can I get home now? And then I got home and my mum was like, the phone's not stopped ringing, David.

Presenter32:12

To show you

David Morrissey32:21

Bye, God.

Presenter32:23

David, let's have some more music, I think. What's this, number five?

David Morrissey32:26

I realize that there's unfinished business with me and my dad, you know, and that that it will never be finished really. You know, there's there's a search for me about that relationship.

David Morrissey32:38

And I know that because every now and again it hijacks me, it catches me off.

Presenter32:41

What kind of moments?

David Morrissey32:43

Well, sometimes when I'm watching TV or reading a book or like this, when I hear this song, even now with my own son and my grandson, you know, I can see it, what it's like to be a father and have a connection and stuff like that. And I do, you know, I do miss the fact that I never had an adult relationship with him.

David Morrissey33:04

But this song is about this man's relationship with his father and he's a real hero of mine, Ronnie Lane, Debrie.

Speaker 233:13

I left you on the depreci

Speaker 233:20

Yeah.

Speaker 333:20

Uh

Speaker 233:20

Yeah. The sun is Come on and mind Market

Speaker 333:23

Uh

Speaker 233:23

Uh

Speaker 233:28

He was looking through the alternative

Speaker 233:35

You was looking for a bargain

Speaker 333:38

I heard your footsteps.

Presenter33:43

Ronnie Lane and Debrie. David, after the success of one summer, you got your equity card and you moved to London, where you went to Rada. How did you get on there? Did you feel like you fitted in?

David Morrissey33:54

But the first person who came up to Mitrado and sort of said they'd seen one summer and they were really friendly was Rape Fiennes. And, you know, I'd never met anyone like Rape Fiennes. I didn't, you know, that was only seen people like that on the telly. You know, he spoke very posh and he was and he was such a and he is such a lovely man and was very friendly. And then I saw then

David Morrissey34:16

amongst my fellow students that it was a real mixture of people. There was you know there was people like me, but there was people who'd been to public school and Oxford and Cambridge and all that. They were all meeting in the same place and it was a meritocracy. It was very much about what you did. Nobody was asking me what my A levels were.

Presenter34:34

Mm.

David Morrissey34:34

And that was a real freedom for me.

Presenter34:37

So you found your feet at Rada and were successful in your course. Your first plate after you left was called.

David Morrissey34:44

It was called WCPC and it was back at the Liverpool Playhouse.

Presenter34:47

Yeah.

Presenter34:49

1986

David Morrissey34:50

And uh so I had to

Presenter34:52

I think you're laughing'cause your auntie and your mum came to see it. So I had to.

David Morrissey34:54

So I had to in this play it was about policemen cottaging in toilets and I was this young recruit and there was a bit where some one policeman sort of assaults me in a toilet and then the next bit was I had to sort of dress up as Liza Manelli from Cabaret and do a little song and then at the end I had to strip off and dance around with the other actors singing YMCA and yeah my mum and my auntie Pat came to see it and I was dreading it. So I met my mum afterwards and the first thing she said to me was she said have you been eating properly?

Presenter35:24

What did they think?

David Morrissey35:33

I thanked her so much for that because it was like really embarrassing.

Presenter35:38

Sometimes it's just as well not to talk about things, isn't it?

David Morrissey35:40

It was. But the other favorite thing was when I stripped off, the head of the police force had to say to me, I still have my underpants on and he had to say, and the underpants, they're police issue. And then I take them off of it.

Presenter35:50

And

David Morrissey35:52

Keep my hands in a certain place. But then one night he was just about to say it, and three guys in the audience said it. Handy on the pants.

David Morrissey35:59

Their play situation and that was it from then on. People used to shout out the audience, so that was quite weird. But yeah, it was going back to Liverpool and doing that play at the Playhouse, which was, you know, the posh theatre as far as I was concerned. That was really great and uh I had a great time doing that. And then I was off and running really. You know, it was uh uh not long after that I went to the RSC and had a wonderful time.

Presenter36:16

Mm-hmm.

Presenter36:22

You've worked very consistently since the beginning, but I think never really felt secure. Like you've never been able to relax into thinking, oh, this is me, I'm fine now. You once said, There's something I must love about the insecurity I profess to hate. Which sounds like you sound like you know yourself pretty well. Have you figured out what it is? Well.

David Morrissey36:43

There's something about

David Morrissey36:45

Yeah, that it could all stop tomorrow, which it's those eggs in the basket thing, is that you treat it seriously.

David Morrissey36:51

I don't take it for granted.

David Morrissey36:54

You know, there's great actors I've worked with and it has suddenly stopped for them, you know, or something has changed and they don't get the work they want anymore. So I try to try to keep my head where my feet are and sort of enjoy the day, enjoy it right now. It's quite interesting though, Lauren, because being asked to be on this show was the first time in my life where I thought, oh, maybe I've done that. Maybe I've done something worth it. It was like that thing of suddenly going, you never guess what? I'm on Desert Island Discs.

David Morrissey37:26

Sorry.

Presenter37:27

Whereas everybody else is going of course he is because why haven't you gone already?

David Morrissey37:27

Or is everyone

David Morrissey37:28

There was some sort of like, you know, knighthood going on there. But I was, I must like the insecurity. And the other thing about that is then.

Presenter37:36

I think

David Morrissey37:39

Taking ownership of it, that actually you're playing it, it's not playing you. And that's what's really important for me: is that I have to start from the point of view where I go, I chose this. And it's fun and it's buzzy and it's risky. You know, there's no. The other thing I came to learn is that I'm pleased when I'm nervous because I care. You know, if there's nothing at risk, why do it? You know, I have to be, something needs to be at stake. You know, you can chase that. That can be addictive in a way that you're trying to sort of get this feeling of this frisson of excitement that you could, you know, you could fall flat on your face.

Presenter38:22

David, let's make some time for the music. It's your sixth choice today. What are we going to hear next?

David Morrissey38:27

My brothers and sister, they would have big record collections, you know, and this record I'd see in my brother's room, I'd see in my sister's room, I'd see in my cousins would play it. One of my cousins is a musician and he would play stuff off this album. I bought it in cassette, I bought it an album, I bought it on C D. I've downloaded it, all those things. It stayed with me all my life. The album is Blue by Joni Mitchell and this track is River.

Presenter38:54

Why have you gone for a river specifically?

David Morrissey38:56

It's just something that breaks my heart. I love it. I love the sentiment of it. I think the way she sort of the lyricism of it is just like all of her stuff. But it's the one that sticks in my mind most.

Speaker 239:11

I wish I had a river I could skate away on

Speaker 239:19

I wish I had a river so long I would

Speaker 239:24

Teach Muffy to fly

Speaker 239:32

I oh, I wish I had a river.

Speaker 239:37

Could skate away

Presenter39:42

Joni Mitchell and River. David Morrissey, you've always been committed to whatever part you've played. I read that when you were cast as a policeman in Clubland, you actually insisted on returning to work after being operated on for a burst appendix. When you look back on that now, do you ever think you were a bit too all-in and that you could have looked after your health a bit more?

David Morrissey40:01

I went to the hospital. I was in AE for hours. And the nurse said to me, It's wind. Just go home. Okay. Went home. And then I was in agony. And I phoned an ambulance. And they took me in, and it was an emergency operation appendix. And I woke up, and the writer was sitting at the bedside. And he said, It's okay, we've cast someone else. And this someone else I knew it was a friend of mine. So I got in touch with him. He came to see me and I said, No, I'll be fine. I'll be fine. Don't worry. And I literally, I have to sit down in the first two scenes. It's just an interview scene. I'll be fine. I'll be fine. And I went and I did it with my stitches in. And I wasn't going to lose that job. So things like that. I have pushed myself. But there's two things there, isn't there? There's pushing yourself.

David Morrissey40:43

And then there's the consequences of the people around you, with you pushing yourself. I have done jobs that's taken me away from home, that have meant that I'm absent, rather than be where arguably I should have been. And so that's been a trade off.

David Morrissey41:00

That's sometimes I regret.

Presenter41:02

You have also said that you've things have changed in recent years for you because you've started finding the authenticity that you were looking for in roles in different places and in comedy, being able to do something like daddy issues for the BBC, which has been a big success for you.

David Morrissey41:16

The baby

David Morrissey41:19

It's really interesting that because talking about Michael Bryan before and stuff, I wanted to be an actor and the thing I wanted to be was I wanted to be authentic. And for me, what that was, was authenticity was always in the bad stuff. It was always in the gutter. It was always in pain. It was always in stress and broken hearts and stuff like that. It could never be in joy or love. It couldn't be frivolous. That was not authentic for me. And so I spent years pursuing this authenticness, which was banging my head against the brick wall and being miserable, basically. I felt that that's where it was. You know, someone like De Niro banging his head against the cell wall, that was acting.

David Morrissey42:00

And then I suddenly, through sobriety and stuff, I suddenly realized that you can be authentic and have fun. You can have joy, you can have love, you can have connection. That's just as authentic as anything else. And I got confused in that. And so when daddy issues came along,

Presenter42:14

Yeah.

David Morrissey42:17

I was able to have fun, still go to work, not work any less, you know, it was still hard work to do, but actually have joy in doing the job itself, making people laugh. You know, I see it now when the edit sometimes I can see that they've had to cut away from me and Amy Leward just before we crack up, you know, because we crack up all the time. So comedy has been part of my life, but for such a long time as a young actor.

David Morrissey42:44

I felt that you could only get truth through misery and pain.

Presenter42:49

Let's have some more music, David. It's your penultimate disc today. What are we going to hear?

David Morrissey42:54

So, one of the things I really need to do on the island obviously is dance. I mean, I love dancing. I mean, I love dad dancing, obviously, but granddad dancing now. You know, all those bands we were talking about before in Liverpool with the Echo and the Bunnyman and Teardrop Explodes. I was thinking of those things, but there was another band around that I was just I couldn't believe were from Liverpool when someone told me. I saw them on top of the box and I thought they were from Philadelphia or something. They were just great. And then I saw them around town and stuff. And this is the real thing: you to me are everything.

David Morrissey43:28

I would take the stars out of the sky for you

David Morrissey43:32

Stop the rain from falling if you ask me to

David Morrissey43:37

I'd do anything for you, your wish is my command.

David Morrissey43:42

I could move a mountain when your hand is in my hand. Mmm, words could not express how much you mean to me.

David Morrissey43:51

There must be some other way to make you see

Presenter43:56

The real thing, and you to me are everything.

David Morrissey44:00

I think Chris Samuel, who's the lead singer of The Real Thing, holds the record as the only person to have a number one hit and Wing Crofts.

David Morrissey44:10

That is a strong

Presenter44:10

That is a strong, strong trophy cabinet right there.

David Morrissey44:13

And that's it.

Presenter44:14

Do you know what breed you want?

David Morrissey44:16

Yeah, it was an Afghan hound I think.

Presenter44:19

An Afghan hound looks like the real thing, sound. Perfect. Perfect.

Presenter44:25

So David Morrissey, it is almost time to cast you away on the desert island. I read that you travel so much that you actually keep a bag packed at home, ready to go.

David Morrissey44:33

I have a s set of drawers actually which have my sort of travel stuff in, yeah. So uh if I need to go there's uh if I need to go quickly I have that stuff there.

Presenter44:42

Okay, so I think you'll adapt quite quickly to life as a castaway. How do you feel about it? How do you think you'll get on?

David Morrissey44:48

Isolation's never been a problem for me. I'm sort of excited about it. I do think, oh yes, that would be great to have a bit of time, but I know that I will miss people and I'll miss life. I'll it'll have to be I'll certainly miss work, but I'll miss people as well. So I don't think I'll get on that well. I'm not that practical.

Presenter45:06

Well

David Morrissey45:08

Okay. You know, I'm not DIY and me are a stranger. You know, I'm not able to do things like that. So that's going to be tough. But um, I think I'll love it for a bit and then I think I might just uh have a little crash.

Presenter45:21

What kind of island are you hoping for? What are you doing?

David Morrissey45:23

Oh, sun and sand. Yeah, sun and sand with a l freshwater sort of lake which has loads of fish in it and then, you know, all that stuff, just sort of fruit f fruit around the place, maybe some veg already growing there, that type of stuff. And a Sainsbury's, you know, things like that.

Presenter45:41

Yeah.

Presenter45:42

It sounds like you've thought about it already. It sounds like you've started your research.

David Morrissey45:45

I have been thinking about it.

David Morrissey45:48

Yeah, but yeah, definitely sun and sand. Yeah, that's what I want.

Presenter45:53

Alright, well, you're about to find out. We'll let you have one more disc before we send you away, David. What's it gonna be?

David Morrissey45:58

So this is an artist who I knew his music and loved it, and then I saw a documentary about him.

David Morrissey46:05

Which really I found very, very moving. He's someone who's struggled with, you know, he's no longer with us, but struggled with mental health crisis in his life. The documentary shows his family dealing with that, particularly his mum and dad, who are so amazing with him. But his work, both his songwriting and his artwork, he's quite an interesting artist as well. I really am drawn to. But there's a simplicity about his work which obviously isn't simple. It's just the way that he encapsulates a mood and a feeling. It feels rudimentary, but actually there's something so open, raw and honest about him. The film is called The Devil and Daniel Johnston, which is amazing. And this is his track which I think is such a track of hope, but also of action. You have to be active for this to happen. And it is True Love Will Find You in the End.

David Morrissey47:03

True love will find you in the end.

David Morrissey47:12

Uh

Speaker 247:12

You'll find out just who with your friend.

Speaker 247:20

Don't be sad, I know.

David Morrissey47:22

No, you will.

David Morrissey47:28

But don't give up until

Presenter47:33

Daniel Johnston, and true love will find you in the end. So, David Morrissey, I'm going to cast you away to your desert island. I'll give you the books. Of course, you can have the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book. What's that going to be?

David Morrissey47:47

Well yeah, it's it's such a hard one, this. I mean, the book I come back to a lot is The Power and the Glory by Graham Greene. But I think just for the size of time I have, the amount of time I have, I think I will take the complete works of Charles Dickens.

Presenter48:02

Okay. And what is it that you love about Dickens?

David Morrissey48:04

I like the fact that he's funny. I mean, I do like that you know, his humor is amazing, but I also like his humanity. And I also like the fact that his stories are you just fall into them. And there's a lot I haven't read, so I'll be looking forward to that.

Presenter48:18

You can also have a luxury item, what would you like?

David Morrissey48:21

Uh

Presenter48:21

Yeah.

David Morrissey48:21

So I don't know whether you're going to give me this. Oh, let's find out. So what I'd really like is it's a bit of a combination, but it's a photograph album. A massive photograph album with pictures of people who've meant things in my life, my family, you know, my mum and dad, all that, and friends and colleagues.

Presenter48:23

Oh let's find out.

David Morrissey48:39

But I'd also like a lot of blank pages at the end and a never-ending pen because one of the things I do all the time is journal. I've been journaling since I was about 14 and I find that process of doing that is really therapeutic for me and wonderful. I get it all out and I do it all the time. I've got notepads everywhere. So I'd like to do that.

Presenter49:00

Well, I think that would be a lovely luxury, of course. It's yours.

David Morrissey49:03

Great.

Presenter49:04

And finally, which track of the eight that we've heard today would you save from the waves first if you had to?

David Morrissey49:09

It would be the Beatles, it would be she's leaving home just for my me and my dear mum.

Presenter49:14

David Morrissey, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island Disc.

David Morrissey49:18

It's been a pleasure.

Presenter49:32

Hello, it was lovely chatting to David and I hope he's very happy on the island with his photo album and blank pages. There are more than 2,000 programmes in our archive that you can listen to. We've cast many other actors away over the years, including Stephen Graham and Michael Sheen. You'll also find Monica Dolan and Leslie Manville, David's fellow actors in the TV series Sherwood, along with its creator, writer James Graham, who's in the archive too. You can hear their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our own Desert Island Disc's website. The studio manager for today's programme was Sarah Hockley, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylands, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Join me next time when my guest will be the North America correspondent for BBC News, Gary O'Donoghue.

Speaker 350:39

I'm Noel Titheridge and for BBC Radio 4 from Shadow World. This is Impulsive. What happens when someone's personality changes completely?

Speaker 250:51

It was completely out of character. Never done it before, never done it since.

Speaker 350:55

And it's because of the prescription drug.

Speaker 250:57

I asked myself, why would you do such a thing? What were you thinking?

Speaker 351:03

I've been uncovering the shocking side effects linked to medications called dopamine agonists.

Speaker 351:10

For BBC Radio 4 from Shadow World. This is Impulsive. Subscribe to Shadow World Impulsive Now on BBC Sounds.