Jessie Buckley

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:46

My castaway this week is the actor and singer Jessie Buckley. She first came to public attention singing on a BBC talent show when she was just 17. She didn't win, but its title proved prophetic. She went from I'd Do Anything to being a performer who really can, widely regarded as one of the most versatile actors of her generation. In addition to her Olivier Award and a place on the Mercury Prize shortlist, she recently won a Golden Globe and a BAFTA for her starring role in Hamlet. Her critically acclaimed performance as Shakespeare's wife Angus has also secured her an Oscar nomination, her second. Growing up in County Kerry, creativity was her family's first language. Her father wrote poetry and her mother was a singer and harpist. Watching her ability to move people to tears made Jessie want to get up on stage too, though she never dreamed it would take her quite this far. She says, I've had amazing moments in my life and all of them I've gone into quite innocently and ignorantly. I can't believe how lucky I've been. Jessie Buckley, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Jessie Buckley1:50

Oh, thank you so much. That was.

Jessie Buckley1:55

I'm so honoured to be on this.

Presenter1:57

Well, we're delighted to have you. And it's just it's just a short list of what you've been working on. I mean, so much to talk about. But I think we should start with Hamlet. And huge congratulations on the Oscar nomination. How do you

Jessie Buckley2:09

Did you find out?

Jessie Buckley2:10

Oh, I was had just packed up my car to go back home up to Norfolk with my husband and my baby and um she was a bit ratty because I hadn't given her a bottle yet and the announcement came on and I was you know cheering in one hand and holding a bottle in the other and then I had to do like a live interv

Speaker 12:30

And then I had to do

Jessie Buckley2:32

For US N News and um I think the first sound that came out was her kind of howling for her bottom.

Jessie Buckley2:42

Everyone's a critic. I think they thought I was howling for joy, but I was like, no, she doesn't care. She just wants her bottle. And the beautiful thing, you know, there's people back home who.

Speaker 22:42

I think they

Jessie Buckley2:53

I think my uncle sent me one clip and there was like some kind.

Jessie Buckley2:57

In the bar, my family's bar, going, Jesus, I wouldn't put a bet on her at all, so I don't have a clue about her at all, but she're best of luck.

Jessie Buckley3:06

They just take you for what you are. Like, they don't, you know. And I love that. I love that about it.

Presenter3:11

Yeah, it's been wonderful to watch it all happening. And, you know, the film obviously is really connected with people. When you were making it, you actually chose to stay in quite a remote shepherd's hut. They'd put you up in a hotel with all mod cons, but you were like, I can't do this. Why did you do that? And, you know, what did it do for you creatively to be in nature like that?

Speaker 13:21

The hotel?

Speaker 13:24

Uh

Jessie Buckley3:24

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley3:32

I grew up in nature, you know. I grew up in Killarney in County Kerry and we're surrounded by mountains and lakes and

Jessie Buckley3:40

I understand what nature can give you. You know, there's a freedom by being in nature and.

Jessie Buckley3:47

I've been so lucky to travel with my work and experience so many things, but I find hotel rooms very lonely.

Jessie Buckley3:54

And I was in a hotel on a roundabout. There was it was like a humongous hotel like there was ten floors and four different restaurants and archery and swimming pools and I was like on the tenth floor and I just couldn't be there. And I remember I found this shepherd's hut in the middle of nowhere and I just said to production, I'm sorry I really have to go to this shepherd's hut.

Jessie Buckley4:20

And my lovely driver was driving me up like after rehearsals in the pitch black and he was like, Are you sure you're going to be okay up here? And I was like, I'm going to be so fine up here and sometimes you just need simple things.

Presenter4:35

Jesse, music came first in your story, as we will hear today, and of course you're sharing your discs with us. You are a singer, songwriter, you play the piano, the harp, the clarinet and the saxophone. Is music still a big part of your day-to-day life? I think my saxophone skills are very you winced when I mentioned this. She winced like it like a lady hasn't.

Jessie Buckley4:52

But I mentioned

Jessie Buckley4:53

Like a lady who hasn't picked up a sex in a while. Very, very low. And I can probably still play my grade eight piano pieces, but um.

Presenter4:55

Jackson

Jessie Buckley5:02

There's a lot of joy and a lot of emotion and a lot of freedom in in in the music that I inherited from my parents growing up in Ireland.

Jessie Buckley5:12

I'm so grateful for that.

Presenter5:14

Well, we can't wait to dive in. So, I think we should just get started. Tell us about your first choice today, Jesse Buckley. What's it going to be?

Jessie Buckley5:21

The Gloaming, they're called, and this song is called Soura Soura.

Jessie Buckley5:27

And sauer in Gaelic means summer.

Jessie Buckley5:30

And when we were young we had a caravan by the sea.

Jessie Buckley5:34

And there's seven of us in our family, I'm the eldest of five, and we'd all every summer bottle down to this place called Ballinskelligs on the coast. And the water was always freezing. My dad'd go in canoe and he'd like catch mackerel, and then he'd come back and like chop the head off the mackerel and put it into the like oven that was falling apart. And it was also an incredible place because up the coast there was this artist village called Kilrealig, which this woman, Noel Campbell Sharp, had renovated this old famine village on the edge of the cliff.

Jessie Buckley6:06

And I think it was the first time I like was experiencing artists. You know, there were like these kind of exotic creatures that would disappear into these old huts. And my mum, who's a harpist, sometimes got allowed to take one of these famine houses for a week and and work on her music. And

Speaker 16:11

Black geek.

Jessie Buckley6:26

Anyway, there's this hill that leads up to that famine village, this artist's retreat. And as you crest the hill, you come over into this other bay called Finian's Bay, which looks out on the Shkelig Rocks, which is this amazing monumental ornament in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean where monks used to live. And we used to play this song when we used to crest over this mountain. And so this just brings me right back to my childhood and the simplicity and the beauty and the like.

Jessie Buckley7:00

Expression that was like just pouring out of the mountain, and all these little huts, and my mom, and the fish, and love.

Speaker 27:07

Sour sour bin

Speaker 27:14

Hogamur Fan on Sondi

Speaker 17:15

Player

Speaker 27:19

Sorry the Norwegian lay girl

Speaker 27:24

Hogemorphen solo

Speaker 17:25

Fit.

Speaker 27:31

Pokemon traveller

Presenter7:38

Sarah Sarah by The Gloaming

Speaker 27:38

So

Presenter7:40

So Jessie Buckley, as you mentioned, you were born in Killarney, County Kerry, in nineteen eighty nine, and you're the eldest of five. Your family was apparently nicknamed the Von Trapps by your neighbours.

Jessie Buckley7:49

By by your neighbors. Tell me more about that.

Jessie Buckley7:53

My dad used to run a guest house, and we were all part of like serving and the entertainment for the tourists that would come in and out. Okay, I'm going to just stop you at entertainment, which for the tourists which involved what? What did you have to do? I mean, Irish dancing, obviously, even though I was to my hands, I was the worst Irish dancer in the world. Because you've got to keep still up top, right? Yeah, I mean, I just was like, but I've got so much in me. Let it out.

Speaker 18:07

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley8:20

And we didn't like, you know, there was no um

Jessie Buckley8:23

put shows on all the mom and dad'd go for a walk and we'd take all the cushions off and my poor brother'd be like wrapped in some sheet and until I got bored of him playing that I'd then take the sheet and I'd wrap be that character.

Jessie Buckley8:36

But it was just so

Jessie Buckley8:38

full of expression and money didn't matter, you know, if you were living and you were experiencing and you were curious, that was all that was counted as being rich for your soul.

Presenter8:52

So that's what mattered. And tell me more about your parents then. So your mum, Marina, trained as an opera singer and was a professional harpist. What kind of person is she? How would you describe her?

Jessie Buckley9:03

My mom is a pretty extraordinary woman.

Jessie Buckley9:08

I'm gonna get emotional now.

Jessie Buckley9:11

I don't sh there's a confidence about her, even though she has this very delicate kind of available.

Jessie Buckley9:19

Self. And she's recently changed her life and gone back to university and retrained as a music psychotherapist and works with neonatal babies in palliative care and people in palliative care. And my parents are no longer together. And she lives in Dublin and she's writing her own story right now. And at 60 years of age, I am so proud of her. I think she's extraordinary.

Speaker 19:40

Yeah.

Presenter9:40

And

Presenter9:45

I think so.

Presenter9:46

Uh

Presenter9:47

And that idea of emotional availability is interesting because that's a quality that actors talk about a lot. It's it's something they're always trying to achieve. So your mum, by the sound of it, has always had that and you always saw that in her.

Jessie Buckley9:58

What I saw in her when she sang in church was this need to tell a story through song. And she'd sing like it was going to cost her life. You know, she needed this vessel to express something that she probably wasn't able to share just walking around in life. Because I'd see this very magical.

Jessie Buckley10:21

strange kind of unspoken conversation happened between her and the congregation were like.

Jessie Buckley10:28

Just from telling this story through song, these old men and women and aunts and other, you know, wives would come up and they'd just have tears in their eyes, and I'd be like, What's happened?

Jessie Buckley10:41

That's when I thought I I want to do that, like I want to have that conversation with people.

Jessie Buckley10:48

Did you get to go to the theatre?

Presenter10:49

Uh

Jessie Buckley10:50

Yeah.

Presenter10:50

Sir, when you were little, do you remember seeing any plays, your first play?

Jessie Buckley10:52

Oh, yeah, yeah. I um the first play they ever took me to was in my local town hall in the Aoris Paulderick, and it was Jesus Christ Superstar.

Jessie Buckley11:04

And I was so transported by watching this production that I genuinely thought a man had been crucified in front of my eyes. Traumatized. I was traumatized, Lauren. I was like on the floor sobbing. And my mom, probably out of embarrassment or my dad, had to like ask, could they bring me backstage to meet Mike Murphy who had played Jesus? To show me that he was okay. And that was like the first kind of peek behind the curtain, you know, the magic of theater. Like I was shaking this man who'd resurrected in front of my eyes, hands. Like I was like.

Presenter11:13

Tramita

Speaker 111:13

Show

Speaker 111:25

who had played Jesus

Presenter11:27

Yeah.

Speaker 111:28

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley11:41

So the bug bit you. Bit me, but also it was so real. That experience was so total. It had happened in some shape or form.

Presenter11:54

Jesse, I think we should go to the music. I can't wait to hear your second disc today. What's it going to be?

Jessie Buckley12:00

This is very special.

Jessie Buckley12:02

Because this is my mom singing. Sorry.

Jessie Buckley12:07

Oh, holy nice

Jessie Buckley12:09

In church.

Jessie Buckley12:11

I love this piece of music so much because it really reminds me of coming home for Christmas and us being together.

Jessie Buckley12:21

as a family and

Jessie Buckley12:23

I really, really miss this moment. And so if I'm on that desert island, I think I'll have to play this at least hourly to make me feel like my family are around me.

Speaker 212:36

Holy love, the stars are brightish love.

Speaker 212:44

It makes a

Speaker 212:47

All the dear Savior's love.

Speaker 212:56

Longly the world missing.

Presenter13:06

O Holy Night, your mum Jessie Buckley Marina Cassidy singing in her local church in Killarney.

Presenter13:12

So Jesse, tell me a little bit more about your dad, Tim. He ran a guesthouse when you were growing up. He's now a bar manager in County Kerry, but also a poet. What type of poetry?

Jessie Buckley13:22

Does he write?

Jessie Buckley13:23

I mean, I don't even know what kind of type it is. I think it's just from the like.

Jessie Buckley13:28

epicentre of his soul, you know.

Jessie Buckley13:31

He um he's kind of shy in many ways, my dad.

Jessie Buckley13:35

But wild and feraled.

Jessie Buckley13:39

And he'd be the kind of man who'd like we'd go surfing or boogie boarding in in that place in Financians Bay that I was talking about. And, you know, if there was a strong current, he'd be like, Well, swim harder. Like, you have to learn. Um, the most extraordinary dad would, you know, well, if it was five A. M. and there was a swimming lesson, he'd be up and he'd drive me, you know, half an hour to the next town to be part of a swim team and

Speaker 113:47

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley14:06

As like an amazing cook, like he was the cook, always was. We were laughing on our family group chat the other day because he would always find exotic things like star fruit and bring it into the guest house. And we'd be just completely beguiled by the star fruit or spices. You know, he was just always kind of like a real artist, a real.

Speaker 114:16

Bring it into the guest house.

Jessie Buckley14:27

True creative. Intrinsically creative. In his heart, you know.

Speaker 114:28

In

Speaker 114:29

Yeah.

Speaker 114:31

You know?

Jessie Buckley14:32

And his poetry, it's his biggest expression, and any time we see each other.

Jessie Buckley14:39

Sometimes you don't have the space to say the things that you want to say to each other, but

Jessie Buckley14:45

After we have parted, he'll often send a poem which contains everything that was unsaid or what lives between us. And I guess dad's words, I think, probably prefaced what I experienced when I met Shakespeare, because words, those words had like.

Jessie Buckley15:06

Bottom where they were bottomless.

Presenter15:08

And what about you? Do you remember the first time you got on stage and performed?

Jessie Buckley15:12

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley15:13

I remember I did a production in my local amateur dramatics, I can't remember what it was, but I remember my appendix nearly burst on stage and I was like, I am not leaving, not leaving until I finished this show and went home and then ended up going to hospital and getting my appendix out. It was like drinking water. You know, I just think the more I did it, the more I realized this is essential to me.

Presenter15:39

Jesse, I think we should have some more music now. This is your third track today. What are we going to hear next and why are you taking it with you to your desert island?

Jessie Buckley15:47

Oh, I mean, I feel like Nina Simone is elemental, uncompromising, fierce, emotional, and

Jessie Buckley15:56

This piece is her singing Who Knows Where the Time Goes by Sandy Denny.

Jessie Buckley16:01

And I did a film called Wild Rose, and after I did the film.

Jessie Buckley16:07

We I didn't want to really do normal publicity, so I kept the band going from the film and we went on a little tour. You played a country singer, a young single mom who's a

Presenter16:16

Yeah, it's kind of a

Jessie Buckley16:17

Laswegian country singer. She's a convict. She's many layered. It's a great fan. Mother, who and actually, one of the places we did a gig.

Presenter16:19

She's many layered.

Jessie Buckley16:26

was in Mountjoy Prison in Dublin. And I've had a long connection with this charity called the Matt Talbot in Dublin, who helps people with addiction and also people coming out of the judicial system to reintegrate them into society. And

Jessie Buckley16:41

I did a gig for male lifers in this church in Mountjoy Prison, and I remember singing this song, and all these.

Jessie Buckley16:50

faces like looking up and

Jessie Buckley16:54

It was, you know, just a moment of humanity where whatever we've done in our life, you know, we all have stories. And it's a kind of great equalizer that you're never alone, you know? And I just hold this song very, very dearly, and I love this version.

Speaker 217:13

Across the morning sky

Speaker 217:18

Are the friends alive?

Speaker 217:30

How can they know?

Speaker 217:35

And then it's time to go.

Presenter17:43

Nina Simone with Who Knows Where the Time Goes. So Jessie Buckley, when you were eleven you went off to board at convent school in Tipperary. What do you remember about that? That's that's young to leave home, especially such a loving home that you obviously ad

Jessie Buckley17:58

Daught.

Jessie Buckley17:59

Firstly, it was an incredible music school, and I was kind of there for that because there was opportunity to be part of orchestras and piano, and there were brilliant teachers there.

Jessie Buckley18:11

But there is also something that about being there that I think if I hadn't gone, I probably wouldn't have had the confidence and independence to move to London when I was seventeen, you know?

Speaker 118:22

You know?

Jessie Buckley18:24

And

Jessie Buckley18:25

I have very happy memories of

Jessie Buckley18:28

The nuns, they were incredible, like interesting people, really supportive. I had an incredible teacher there called Mary Butler who really, really encouraged me in doing theatre. And we used to do these amazing shows. Once you got to third year, you could do be part of the shows. What kind of parts were you playing? Well, I played all the male parts.

Presenter18:48

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley18:53

I lived for it. And then there was a period of time where I really wasn't very well and I got very depressed and just got very.

Jessie Buckley19:03

lost in myself and it kind of

Jessie Buckley19:09

You know, I wasn't kind to my body. I got very anxious. I wasn't able to be in school.

Jessie Buckley19:17

I was volcanic as a child and as a teenager. I had so much feeling in me. I didn't know what to do with it. And I think also.

Jessie Buckley19:25

My education was

Jessie Buckley19:27

Just a slice of you. If we can have just a slice of you, that'll be enough. And don't be too much, you know. And.

Jessie Buckley19:35

And I just felt on fire. I was like, Whatcha mean?

Jessie Buckley19:39

What do you mean be small? Like these have these are not small feelings I've got going on. I I found learning in school I just couldn't learn linearly, you know.

Jessie Buckley19:52

And I remember feeling so protective of singing and pia of my music and my creativity. And I'd wake up at 5 a.m. in the morning and I'd like steal the key to the music room and go into the music room. And I wanted to just be on my own.

Presenter20:07

Let it all out.

Presenter20:10

You said that, you know, when you were depressed, you you weren't kind to yourself, you weren't kind to your body. I mean, if you are able to talk about it, what were you going through and how did you get better? Did you did you have to go home to Heal and recover?

Jessie Buckley20:24

Well, I had an eating disorder and it took time and it took a lot of help and also it was depression. So I would like I mean I just probably I didn't I didn't know how to be alive the way I wanted to be and it was it was difficult and but I do not for a second regret it and I think I've been able to transform it and recognize our vulnerabilities as humans in the world. You know, you can't walk through life not being affected, but you can

Jessie Buckley20:59

transform that into something that

Jessie Buckley21:03

Allows you to be more human and alive in the way that you want to be. And I'm very grateful for everybody who helped me along the way with that and for the people who held space for that. So many people, like the nuns, were incredible. My family were incredible. I mean, I think it's very difficult for a family to go through that, you know. I think it's, you never want to see your daughter in that place. Therapists, I've been in therapy since I was 17. I still go every week. And moving to London, you know, when I moved to London,

Jessie Buckley21:36

I still wasn't out of the woods. And I think there were moments where I was like.

Jessie Buckley21:43

If I don't get better here.

Jessie Buckley21:45

This music, this being part of theatre, I'm not going to be able to do this anymore, and I probably won't survive.

Jessie Buckley21:54

And that was like the thing that turned it in my head was like.

Jessie Buckley21:58

I don't want to sacrifice that. This is bigger than that. And it won.

Presenter22:07

We'll find out the next steps that you took in a moment, Jesse. But I think we should have some more music. This is your fourth choice today.

Jessie Buckley22:13

Who's next and why? Oh, with utter pride and with absolute gratitude to this woman.

Jessie Buckley22:21

This Sinead O'Connor.

Jessie Buckley22:24

And she's so interesting around all of this because when I was young growing up, like I really remember the rhetoric being told of her to be very careful of her, you know, she's dangerous.

Speaker 122:32

Uh

Speaker 222:32

Uh

Jessie Buckley22:35

And then a few years ago I did a production of Cabaret.

Jessie Buckley22:39

And I just got curious about her. I was like

Jessie Buckley22:42

I just needed her. And I just listened to everything. I read her books. I watched the incredible Catherine Ferguson documentary.

Jessie Buckley22:52

And then, like clear as day, I could just see the revolutionary that she was, who always acted from her heart to protect the most vulnerable parts of what it is to be alive. And I really do believe that the legacy that she has left is immortal. And I had the real privilege of singing this song, Troy, on Culture Night on RTE. And it was a tribute to Sinead O'Connor after she passed away. And I've never felt more like determined to sing it for Sinead. I need this song and this island to like howl at the moon and say thank you.

Speaker 223:33

Our memory

Speaker 223:37

And drop them in a rainstorm

Speaker 223:41

Sitting in the long grass in summer

Speaker 223:45

Keepin' warm

Speaker 223:49

Oh my memory.

Speaker 223:53

Ever restless night

Presenter23:54

Rest

Speaker 123:54

Uh

Speaker 223:58

We were so young then we thought that everything we could possibly do well

Presenter24:04

Troy, Sinead O'Connor. Jesse Buckley, by the time you were 17, you'd left Ireland to audition at the Guildford School of Acting. How did it go?

Jessie Buckley24:13

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley24:14

Oh, terribly. Sorry, they didn't let me in the door. They were like, nope, not ready. And it was a great lesson. You have to kind of roll with the punches, and sometimes you're just not ready, really, for that moment. So that door closed.

Presenter24:27

Yeah.

Presenter24:28

But another one opened pretty swiftly afterwards, didn't it? What what happened next?

Jessie Buckley24:33

Yeah, well that same weekend that I was over for to audition to get into Guildford, there was an open audition for a BBC reality show called I Do Anything with Andrew Lloyd Weber and Cameron McIntosh and Barry Humphreys and John Barriman and Denise Manauton. And I remember I joined the queue outside the county town hall on the South Bank. So they were looking for a Nancy to star in the West End production of Oliver. That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, and ended up coming second.

Presenter24:58

Yeah.

Presenter25:06

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley25:06

So you've got in line.

Presenter25:07

Uh

Jessie Buckley25:07

I mean, have you watched any of it back? Not for a while. I love.

Presenter25:12

That little girl though. Yeah.

Jessie Buckley25:14

I love her.

Presenter25:15

I felt very affectionate because I did go and watch it back before this, and I mean, you were such a baby.

Jessie Buckley25:22

I was so little and it meant so much and, you know, I was so raw and you're doing it so publicly as well.

Presenter25:22

I'm so sorry.

Presenter25:31

And that was

Jessie Buckley25:31

And that was the word.

Presenter25:31

And the critiques which were harsh and the times were different. People would probably wouldn't talk to such a young girl in that way now on T V. Kind of like, oh, you know, we've got to gotta get you looking womanly and, you know, you were there sit with six inch heels on saying that you were gonna start to learn to look like a lady and all of

Jessie Buckley25:56

Excellent and look like a lady.

Jessie Buckley25:58

All of that, you know, that's that is you know. I don't like that part of it, and I think like.

Jessie Buckley26:03

That was also a young woman who's trying to discover her body and herself. Like. We all do, you know, as growing up and

Speaker 126:09

That's cool.

Jessie Buckley26:11

I I wish that hadn't happened. And I think I was putting a brave face on because really what I wanted to do was sing. And really I wanted to act and I wanted to be part of this industry. And all of a sudden you had to be

Jessie Buckley26:26

A certain kind of person, and I just wasn't. You know, I never will be. That's just not me. And

Speaker 126:31

Uh

Jessie Buckley26:33

Inside, I'm on fire.

Jessie Buckley26:36

And raw and I'm like

Jessie Buckley26:38

How do you do that?

Jessie Buckley26:42

I'm bringing in the kind of water cooler onto myself. But I'm so proud of that girl. I think she did great. And I don't regret any of it. I had it was what brought me to London and

Jessie Buckley26:57

I think for the people who maybe didn't have the sensitivity or to.

Jessie Buckley27:03

Recognize what was bigger.

Jessie Buckley27:05

Then objectifying that young girl?

Jessie Buckley27:09

Maybe you can now and I hope that doesn't ever happen to another young girl at that age. And I think women are beautiful all shapes and sizes and that's what I love about what I do. You know, the people that have continued to blow my mind have been absolutely, totally themselves and have never conformed to the idea of what it is to be successful or to be a woman in the world.

Presenter27:34

But but, to be fair, Andrew Lloyd Weber says at the end, you know, that you are you have everything you need and that you shouldn't be interfered with by, you know, the opinions of people like him.

Jessie Buckley27:40

And that you

Jessie Buckley27:44

I cannot thank Andrew Lloyd Weber, Cameron McIntosh or Barry Humphreys enough. You know, I think they cut through that crap and got to the essence of what it is that I was trying to

Speaker 227:56

Good.

Jessie Buckley27:57

Say

Jessie Buckley27:58

And they've been consistently supportive through my life. I mean, Cameron McIntosh, after I came out of that show, he was the one who introduced me to Shakespeare. He was very kindly offered to send me to Radha to do a four-week Shakespeare course, which really changed my life. That was a turning point. That was a ginormous turning point. That was really the moment I recognized myself as an actress.

Speaker 128:13

Until

Speaker 128:14

That was a ch

Jessie Buckley28:19

Jesse Buckley, let's have some more music. Number five, what's next? Oh, well, I would watch Judy Dench sing Send in the Clowns on repeat for hours and hours and it was like at a BBC proms concert and she's just sitting on a stool, there's a spotlight and it's like imperfect, it's human.

Jessie Buckley28:47

And

Jessie Buckley28:48

When I first met my agent Lindy King, who I've been with since I was 17, and she'd seen me on I Do Anything and she was like a proper agent.

Jessie Buckley28:57

I remember I'd come from for my meeting to see her. I'd come from my caravan in South West Carrie and Balancekelligs and at the time everyone wore fake tan in Ireland, so I'd like lathered myself.

Jessie Buckley29:11

So you had a fake tan face.

Presenter29:11

Oh, you had a fake tan face.

Jessie Buckley29:15

I looked nuclear. I was like lathered in this fake tan. I had white hoopy earrings on, uh, polka dot like red and white like Betty boop dress, a a white cardigan that was turning more yellow as the journey went on from the caravan to London, and cork heels, little white like cork

Presenter29:33

To finish the look. Perfect. Perfect.

Jessie Buckley29:37

And I went into her office and she'd seen me on the show. She was like, I really don't do musicals. If it's musicals you want to do, I don't know if I'm your person and there's other people I could introduce you to. And I remember she had this little mushroom stool in her office at the time. And I looked up at her and I said, I want to be Judy Dench. And she was like, okay then.

Jessie Buckley29:57

That was it. So thank you, Juji.

Speaker 230:02

Isn't it rich?

Speaker 230:07

Are we a pair?

Jessie Buckley30:08

We

Speaker 230:12

Me here at lost on the ground

Speaker 230:16

You

Speaker 230:22

Send in the clown.

Presenter30:32

Send in the Clowns from Stephen Sundheim's A Little Night Music, performed by Dame Judy Dench with the BBC Concert Orchestra, conducted by David Charles Abel.

Presenter30:43

Jesse Buckley, we were talking about your reality TV adventure. I'd do anything. I mean, you came second, but you did get offered the part of the understudy, and you turned it down, interestingly.

Jessie Buckley30:52

I Davis

Presenter30:53

Tell me about that. Why? Where did you get it?

Jessie Buckley30:55

Yeah.

Presenter30:55

Uh

Jessie Buckley30:55

Gumption to do that. Absolute gumption, the audacity. I don't know where I got it. I just kind of felt in my bones, no, I don't think this is for me. And I really didn't know how the business worked. And so I thought you go tell them yourself. And I at the time. So your agent would traditionally ring. Usually that would be how it would work. And I found out where Cameron Macintosh.

Presenter31:13

So you're a

Presenter31:16

Oh yeah.

Jessie Buckley31:20

you know, where his offices were and I was living in Hammersmith at the at the time in like a flat share. So I walked from Hammersmith to Fitzrovia and like knocked on the door and said, Is is Camberny?

Jessie Buckley31:34

I remember you was probably like, why is this girl in my office? And no, really sweetly I and in I was innocently I was like, thank you so much, but I won't be taking the part of Nancy Understudy. I've got other things I think I should probably be do.

Presenter31:52

And uh yeah and it's interesting, his reaction was to send you on that Shakespeare workshop at Rada and then in 2008 you made your stage debut in Trevor Nunn's production of A Little Night Music. By 2010 your career was blossoming, but it was at that point that you decided to enrol at Rada for three years. What made you choose studying over

Jessie Buckley32:14

working professionally.

Jessie Buckley32:16

I think because of my parents' relationship to what art was, I knew that you really do have to commit and educate yourself and I took it so seriously. And also at the same time,

Jessie Buckley32:30

I had to pay my rent in London, so in between my terms I'd be out on the road doing a singing tour or like

Presenter32:39

You'd sung as a a jazz singer in the nightclub Annabelles for a few years by this point to supplement your income.

Jessie Buckley32:46

Yeah, I did jazz gigs in Pizza Express and Lorestoft and

Jessie Buckley32:53

But that was also brilliant because they put they'll put a plaque up if you're not careful.

Jessie Buckley32:59

I'd be proud. I'd be proud. I'd be proud of it.

Presenter32:59

Yeah.

Presenter33:01

Proud, I'd be proud of it.

Jessie Buckley33:03

Yeah.

Presenter33:05

It needs a cocktail and a pizza. The Jessie Buckley. Absolutely, yeah. But but yeah, I mean, so so you were continuing to support yourself. How did that work once you got to Rada?

Jessie Buckley33:15

Well, I couldn't fully support myself just by myself. So I was very fortunate that I got sponsored by a very kind man who'd heard me sing when I was singing around London and just wanted to support somebody who wanted to be in the arts. And he paid for my whole education at Radha. And I couldn't have done it. I couldn't have stayed here. I couldn't have done it without him. So he made a massive difference in your life. Are you still in touch with him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I messaged him the other day.

Jessie Buckley33:48

So this is Tony Bernstein? Tony Bernstein, yeah. Yeah. He must be so proud.

Jessie Buckley33:53

I hope he is.

Jessie Buckley33:56

It's hard to repay something like that, you know. I'm probably clumsy in it, you know, because it really, really was.

Jessie Buckley34:05

I really wouldn't have been able to continue to do what I what I can do. And I know my parents are very grateful to him too.

Jessie Buckley34:13

I think a lot of young actors probably need the support of people like Tony to to be able to sustain and to go and get an education, you know.

Presenter34:23

Uh

Jessie Buckley34:24

We need more to

Presenter34:24

Lony's in the world. Jesse, it's time for some more music. Your sixth choice, please. What's it gonna be?

Jessie Buckley34:30

At the time I was at Radha I uh met my ex boyfriend Chris, who is this extraordinary musician and composer. And a few years ago he put this piece of music up on

Jessie Buckley34:44

I can't remember. He put it up somewhere. And.

Jessie Buckley34:47

It's a Christmas song and it's sung by the Bassiana Ensemble.

Jessie Buckley34:51

And this choir they're um a Georgian male choir sitting around this Christmas table.

Jessie Buckley34:58

And

Jessie Buckley34:59

Out of nowhere this singular voice cracks into the air, and from this moment

Jessie Buckley35:07

All these other men around this table start folding in around him, and it becomes this.

Jessie Buckley35:13

This thing that's bigger than this man. It becomes something that's bigger than the time that it's in. And it moved me so much. And I remember watching it going.

Jessie Buckley35:24

But I wish our leaders of the world were these men.

Jessie Buckley35:27

And the holding that this song has, it's my favorite piece of music, it's my favorite moment of music ever.

Speaker 235:41

Utstahzade ger erasa.

Presenter36:05

Christmas Song

Presenter36:07

By the Bassiani Ensemble.

Presenter36:10

Jesse Buckley, during your time at Rada, you were suspended for a brief period. What was your misdemeanour?

Jessie Buckley36:17

And how did you get caught? My misdemeanor was um singing, which is like my felonies are pathetic. Like I really should smoke a cigarette and like do like hard, do bad things.

Speaker 236:25

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley36:29

But yeah, I I

Jessie Buckley36:32

You're not meant to work while you're at college, and in between I never worked while I it was during term time, but in between I had no option. I had to like

Jessie Buckley36:41

pay my rent and buy food. But you were so keen to learn. I mean, you must have been upset to to be in trouble. Oh, I really, I was. And I nearly left because

Jessie Buckley36:54

I couldn't do the shows without getting a panic attack in my in college. And I remember John Boschitza, this teacher, pulled me aside one day and he was like,

Jessie Buckley37:06

Let's go for a walk.

Jessie Buckley37:08

And we sat in a garden off Good Street, and he was like, What's going on? Like, this is not you.

Jessie Buckley37:14

And I just was like, I can't breathe. Like, I feel...

Jessie Buckley37:19

it's too much observation, like too much pressure and I all I've done is sing, you know, I haven't and I haven't it hasn't impacted me in my training, you know, it's just part of who I am and it's part of how I can

Jessie Buckley37:33

Stay in London, and he gave me this book. I still have it. There is a candle on the front of it, and it's called F It.

Jessie Buckley37:43

And he was like, if this gets to you, they've won, and you have basically got to metabolize this and move on.

Jessie Buckley37:51

And he was right. And I did. And I'm doing great.

Presenter37:57

So the book turned out to be helpful. So you graduated in twenty thirteen and this is when everything just goes whoosh. twenty twenty two, you won an Olivier Award for playing Sally Bulls in the West End revival of Cabaret, though I did read that the first night wasn't plain sailing.

Jessie Buckley38:12

Oh yeah, no, it really, um

Jessie Buckley38:16

In her opening number, Sally Bowles singing Don't Tell Mama and

Jessie Buckley38:23

I'd been given a note to like try and climb up on one of the poles and and I'm doing my thing and I'm like great here I go here's the pole I'm making eyes with Cliff and and I just went to grab the pole and in the first song I swung off the stage and ended up in one of the boxes.

Jessie Buckley38:45

And you get, I got such a shock. I just got back up and I did the whole show as if it didn't happen. And the minute the curtain came down.

Jessie Buckley38:53

I dissolved. I was like.

Jessie Buckley38:57

Um, but it's good. I am only human, you know, and you do come back up.

Jessie Buckley39:03

Jesse, let's have some more music. Your penultimate track. What is it? I got married four years ago. We decided to get married in seven weeks in our back garden. And I being honest, I was really scared of love.

Jessie Buckley39:19

I think love is kind of a scary thing to to really

Jessie Buckley39:23

Be in, like, really be in love. Not the idea of it, but like. What is it? The risk of getting hurt? Is it the not the risk? It's so full of so many things. And I didn't expect my husband, you know. You were set up on a blind date. We were set, yeah, we were set up on a blind date, and we went for like a pub crawl along the canal. And it was lovely. I didn't really, I was like, that was nice. You know, I didn't think you didn't realize your life had changed. Yeah, I didn't know what he would and does mean to me, which is something I'm still discovering and what we're discovering with each other. And getting married to him was one of the greatest days of my life. And this song was our first dance. It's Kate Bush's Red Shoes. And I remember.

Presenter39:28

Uh

Speaker 139:38

You were

Presenter39:39

We're set.

Presenter39:50

Realize your life is

Jessie Buckley40:14

I remember just the amount of life and disobedience and like.

Jessie Buckley40:22

Holding of each other, and we created our own world in our back garden where we invited our friends to come and celebrate. It sounds like a cracking wedding. I heard there were cheese toasties on the dance floor. There's cheese toasties and pints of Guinness. Perfect.

Speaker 240:39

I she moved like the demon do. I said I'd love to dance like you She said just take off my red shoes Put them on and your dream will come true No words

Speaker 240:55

With your song in

Speaker 240:57

Condense a dream with your body on And this care is your smile And this cross

Presenter41:08

Kate Bush and the Red Shoes. Jesse Buckley, you and your husband Freddie moved to Norfolk in twenty twenty. What's life at home like in the country?

Jessie Buckley41:17

Oh, it's very, very, very, very simple. I'm a really bad gardener, but I love the garden. We walk, I cook, have baths, read, change nappies at the moment.

Presenter41:31

A lot of that. He's six months old. Yeah, yeah.

Jessie Buckley41:34

Uh Yeah.

Jessie Buckley41:35

I wanted to be a mother for a long time.

Jessie Buckley41:40

And it was quite a wild experience shooting Hamlet with that need, you know, because.

Jessie Buckley41:46

I w had these like

Jessie Buckley41:48

pregnant prosthetic bellies and I was giving birth and

Jessie Buckley41:52

Like my husband would laugh because I'd be out in the garden like pulling bags of leaves with this prosthetic pregnant belly that I brought up for the week.

Jessie Buckley42:00

To try and feel what it felt like to be pregnant and to just be like, God, my wife is so mad. And.

Presenter42:04

Just be like

Jessie Buckley42:09

It was so extraordinary to play that woman. And I remember reading the book and really, really feeling like a story had met this moment of my life.

Jessie Buckley42:22

Yeah.

Presenter42:22

What will

Jessie Buckley42:22

I was a little bit. About the story that

Presenter42:23

What was it articulating that you were going through or feeling?

Jessie Buckley42:27

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley42:28

her landscape as a mother was so tender and so deep and who had like such a kind of connection to her

Jessie Buckley42:41

elemental nature as a human but also

Jessie Buckley42:45

nature and

Jessie Buckley42:48

I think that was just the next story for me was like understanding that tenderness and the capacity to love from such a courageous place when she has such a relationship with mortality and with chapters really

Speaker 143:02

B

Jessie Buckley43:06

Look, I don't know, but I got pregnant a week after this.

Jessie Buckley43:10

This film finished, so something coaxed something.

Presenter43:12

Something else.

Speaker 143:12

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley43:16

And I think it like, yeah, brought me into this chapter of my life as a mum.

Presenter43:21

Oh, how lovely.

Jessie Buckley43:22

They

Presenter43:22

Well, I'm sorry, but I am going to take you away from your gorgeous family and send you to the desert island.

Speaker 243:28

Boom.

Presenter43:29

How are you feeling about life there?

Jessie Buckley43:32

I think I will really, really miss the people I love the most on that desert island. But I think I'll have a way of placing them in my world. Like I'll just find a stick

Presenter43:36

So on that

Jessie Buckley43:46

That will become like my husband behind a rock. That'll become my daughter and I line all my family up like, you know, I've my imagination will create them around me. So I'll kid myself that I'm not alone.

Speaker 143:49

You'll have to find your

Presenter43:50

Yeah.

Speaker 143:50

Yeah.

Presenter44:01

Uh

Jessie Buckley44:01

Uh

Presenter44:01

Yeah. And you will have your music to keep you company too, and to keep them with you. Speaking of which, final choice, please, what's it going to be?

Jessie Buckley44:09

My last choice is actually something that came right on the precipice of Hamlet. It was the first piece of music I ever sent to Chloe Jau. It was the first piece of music I sent to Paul Mesca. It's called Old Note by Lisa O'Neill.

Jessie Buckley44:29

And

Jessie Buckley44:30

I remember there was a moment I'd played it so much in prep leading up to and throughout, but there was a moment I think it was the last day of filming.

Jessie Buckley44:41

And everybody had finished except me, and my last scene in in in the set was saying goodbye to our home.

Jessie Buckley44:49

and all the furniture had been taken out, all the like flowers and the f kids stuff, and I didn't r think it would hit me the way it did, but I asked Chloe to play this track and I stood in that attic where we slept and I just

Jessie Buckley45:06

Bottle, like it just is like the floor went from underneath me, and I just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed.

Jessie Buckley45:13

It brings me back home to growing up in Ireland.

Jessie Buckley45:18

But it also brings me right up to the present. And the end of this piece of music, there's a little girl who talks to Lisa.

Jessie Buckley45:26

About the kind of spirits that she has heard in this song and that the singer is gone now, you know, she's I I she's gone.

Jessie Buckley45:36

And I think in my imaginary world where I'm not alone, if I have this song, I think that little girl will become.

Jessie Buckley45:45

My little girl and I don't know what I'd do without her, so I think I need to keep her as a little girl in this in this song.

Speaker 246:18

Next to the song

Presenter46:27

Lisa O'Neill, an old note. So, Jesse Buckley, it's time I'm going to cast you away to your desert island. I will, of course, give you the books to take with you, as well as your discs: the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book of your choice. What's that going to be?

Jessie Buckley46:41

Um I'm going to take

Jessie Buckley46:45

collection of every single poem my dad has written, because I haven't read them all.

Jessie Buckley46:52

And there's so much of him that I want to know.

Jessie Buckley46:55

And I want to sit in this island and laugh at all the things that he caught that I didn't and have it in this beautiful bound book that has got all of his amazing words together and I just want him to be with me. How fabulous to be able to take his

Presenter47:10

Voice, it's yours. You can also have a luxury item. What do you fancy?

Jessie Buckley47:15

Well, I would like my bath from Norfolk.

Jessie Buckley47:20

But does it come with hot water? It can. Okay. So what's the requirements? My requirements is like, I just like a bath and I love, can I have some smelly salts as well?

Presenter47:23

Okay.

Presenter47:25

Marvel.

Presenter47:30

Yeah.

Jessie Buckley47:32

Yeah, so I like my bath with smelly salts, and I'll sit in the bath in front of the sea and I'll look out as it starts to go tonight and I'll think.

Jessie Buckley47:42

What a great life.

Presenter47:44

Why the Norfolk Bath in particular though, Jesse? I mean you could have the you could have any bath in the world. Why why yours from

Jessie Buckley47:50

My

Presenter47:50

Oh

Jessie Buckley47:51

And he just put me back.

Jessie Buckley47:52

In my home, in my in in my nest.

Presenter47:55

We'll rig something special up for you. You're going to have some fab baths on the island. And finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves first if you needed to?

Jessie Buckley47:57

Could I

Jessie Buckley48:08

Oh, it's hard. I I I think the track I will save just'cause it just brings me right back to my this child, this like purity.

Jessie Buckley48:19

The world, the ocean, is the gloaming Sour Sour. I want to like crest that mountain and see the rest of the world.

Jessie Buckley48:29

Jesse

Presenter48:29

Book Thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Jessie Buckley48:33

So much for having me.

Presenter48:53

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jessie. We'll leave her reading her dad's poetry in that lovely bath of hers. We've cast away many actors to the island, including Kate Winslet, Leslie Manville, and Lenny James. Jessie's inspiration, Dame Judy Dench, is in our archive too, along with the author of Hamlet, Maggie O'Farrell. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram. The assistant producer was Tim Banno. The executive production coordinator was Susie Roylance. The content editor was Mugabe Turia and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the heart surgeon and writer, Professor Stephen Westerby. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 149:52

Hi, we're the Van Tulliken, the identical twin Dr. Van Tullikens, Chris and Zand. In What's Up Docs, we're diving into the messy, complicated world of health and well-being. We are living in the middle of what I would call a therapeutic revolution, but it can sometimes be hard to know what's really best for us. Do I need to take a testosterone supplement? How can I fix my creaky knees? Why do I get hangry? Is organic food actually better for me? We're going to be your guides through the confusion. We'll talk to experts in the field and argue about what we've learned and share what we've learned and maybe disagree a fair bit too. No, we won't. What's up, Docs, from BBC Radio 4? Listen now on BBC Sounds.