Tahra Zafar

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:46

My castaway this week is the costume and creature effects designer, Tara Zafar. One of the most talented makers in Britain today, her magical creations have enchanted film, TV, and theatre audiences, young and old. She produced Harry Potter's Pets, brought the cast of preschool TV show In the Night Garden to life, was in charge of 23,000 costumes for the London 2012 Olympic opening and closing ceremonies, and even built the titular beast for Lady Gaga's Monster Ball Tour. Most recently, she developed the uncannily convincing Paddington Bear, who's currently taking London's West End by storm in the musical adaptation of Michael Bond's classic story. She was born in London in 1965 and grew up surrounded by entertainers. Her father was a choreographer and her mother a dancer. She studied theatre design at Central St Martins and started out making costumes for operas and plays before taking the leap into film, working at the famous Muppet Maker Jim Henson's Creature Workshop. Speaking of leaps, it was down to her to find the perfect wig for Her Majesty's stunt double when the late Queen took on that iconic skydive for the Olympic opening ceremony. She says, For me, it's about storytelling, bringing together artists and collaborating with people working at the top of their game. Tara Zafar, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Gosh, thank you. What a lovely introduction. Well, you make it very easy. You've done so many interesting things. Let's start with that stage version of Paddington. Five-star reviews across the board. How does it feel to see him walking out on stage at last? Because I know this has been a long-running project for you. Yeah, it has been a long project of like research, getting him right, looking at kind of different inspiration. And he's been very loved by us, but kind of private to our theatre production family. And it was our first preview.

Presenter2:43

And we were just kind of taking stock and thinking, we're about to show him to the world and he's not going to be ours anymore. About to leave him at the train station. We're going to leave him at the train station. So I really, um, yeah, overwhelmed really by the response and it feels like everyone needs a nice furry Paddington to love and have in their lives and um when things get a bit tough.

Presenter3:07

A nice, polite bear is what you need. In difficult times, he's the hero we all want, isn't he? So, what did you want the stage version of Paddington to embody? Because obviously, you know, the books are classics and we've seen him on screen and in the films. You know, what's particular to your Paddington, do you think? Well, I think we've looked at all of the different Paddingtons that have been, you know, including the original illustrations, Peggy Faulkner's illustrations of the toys. So, we looked at Peggy's illustrations and sort of created this quite delicate bear who left a few gaps in your imagination. He's not quite real, he's not quite a toy.

Tahra Zafar3:31

Boom.

Presenter3:45

He's sort of something in the middle, and by having him slightly ambiguous in that way, we kind of think that your mind or your emotions can kind of fill the gaps. Oh, I love that, the semantic gap they call that. So that's semantic. And for children, does that mean that they engage in a different way? So it's kind of drawing them into the production. I think so, and also particularly because he's slightly toy-like.

Tahra Zafar3:55

Oh, I love that.

Tahra Zafar3:57

So that's semantic.

Presenter4:08

Children choose to love their toys. So you've got two performers, one inside Paddington, and then an actor who is creating his voice but also his facial expressions at the same time. He's singing and puppeteering at the same time, which is an amazing feat. James Mead is just exceptional, you know, really beautiful. And then Artie Shar, who is on the on stage Paddington. There are also lots of details, I know, Tara, that nobody will see, including a tiny label on Paddington's paw. Yes.

Presenter4:41

Some of you made Yeah, we just added a maid in Peru. It's quite subtle on his the sole of his shoe because what sole of his foot, should I say? Because when you get a toy it they have where it's made and usually washing instructions.

Tahra Zafar4:41

Yeah.

Presenter4:55

Well, I'm so glad that you're here today. We've got lots to talk about, Tara, and of course music. Let's get started with your first track then, your first disc to take to the island. What have you chosen and why, Tara? I've chosen Thunderbirds Ago. So I am a child of the mid-60s. I grew up watching television, maybe too much, according to my mother, but I was quite happy. And I watched a lot of Thunderbirds, Stingray, Captain Scarlett, who was my first love. Oh, really? I did kiss the television. It was very disappointing. But Thunderbirds Ago, I love the bongos in it. Makes me laugh. But the puppets in that show, the Gerry Anderson shows, were just superb. And for me, I might wake up and I think I'm on my Tracy Island.

Tahra Zafar5:41

I thought you would r

Presenter5:42

You would like your desert island to be a bit trezy? I love that. Well, it could be, you know, I'd like to give a lot of kind of.

Tahra Zafar5:42

You would like your

Tahra Zafar5:45

Well, it could be.

Presenter5:48

Building skills and things like that to go. But I could think that maybe round the corner is a very nice swimming pool with brains lying on a sun lounge and Lady Penelope. And they just happen to be round the corner. So I would think that would be quite funny. And it just would wake me up nicely. And also, my sister's godfather was the voice of Virgil for Thunderbird 2. So it has a bit of a family connection too.

Speaker 35:52

Yeah, but I

Tahra Zafar5:52

Uh

Tahra Zafar5:57

On a sun lounger and they can

Presenter6:45

Oh well that was just a joy. Thunderbirds Are Go, the theme tune played by Barry Gray and his orchestra. So Tara Zafar, you were born into a very creative family. New Year's Day 1965, the youngest of two children to Jenny and Leo. And I know that your dad had quite a story, so tell us a bit about him. My dad was American from an Armenian family, so first generation American. My family lived in Boston. They had a flourishing shoe business. So it was a shoe shop and they used to make orthopaedic shoes and specialist shoes like that. But they had a sideline in clown shoes, I know. Yes, they did. So every year the Ringling brothers came to Boston to do the show and they would order in advance all the clown shoes. And I only found this out about kind of five years ago for my cousin. I can believe it because it's like I make a lot of leather work and all of that sort of thing for the film and TV industry. So I was kind of blown away by that.

Speaker 37:33

Uh

Tahra Zafar7:33

I

Tahra Zafar7:35

Smoke.

Tahra Zafar7:40

A lot of leather work.

Tahra Zafar7:42

Absolutely.

Presenter7:47

Him and his twin sister Naomi, they used to dance together. In fact, did some service dances, you know, for the war effort and things like that. My dad was older than my mother. And was there at the right time to audition for Westside Story when it was coming over to the UK. And so that was what brought him here. That's what brought him over. He was in the original.

Speaker 38:05

And so that was

Presenter8:10

production of Westside Story in uh Her Majesty's Theatre in London. And that was quite a big deal. I mean, in terms of revolutionizing the the dance scene over here, people had never seen anything quite like that choreography, had they? Yeah, Jerome Robins' choreography was like

Tahra Zafar8:13

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar8:15

Is it

Tahra Zafar8:21

Yeah.

Presenter8:24

Jaw-droppingly different from what anyone had seen. So, the cast of that show were really celebrities. And in fact, David Holliday, who was the voice of Virgil, was Tony in the show. And who did your dad play? He played Anxious, he was a shark. But then, actually, as it ran over the years, he played some other parts as well. But also did a lot of teaching. He was teaching a lot of people in the UK to dance, that kind of style, that jazz. It's kind of classical jazz dance. And he also met my mother through choreographing. He stayed in London and his place sounds very interesting that he had. He restored an old tea shop called The Blue Kettle in Islington. What do you remember about it? It was amazing. It was on Islington High Street, exactly where the new.

Speaker 38:38

Ah, so

Speaker 28:39

Uh

Tahra Zafar9:05

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar9:10

It is like

Presenter9:17

Angel Tube is. It was an extraordinary building and it had huge kind of beautiful floorboards and hatches that you could drop things down. There was even a dumb waiter from when it was a cafe, and he did it up and made it very, very beautiful, and he would get me and my sister, Leah, helping him make walls.

Presenter9:36

Walls. Walls, things like that. So we'd be there of of a Saturday holding up like a door frame and he'd be hammering it. And yeah, he was really good with his hands, very hardworking. Okay, so you must have picked up quite a lot from him just growing up around that then?

Tahra Zafar9:43

Yeah.

Presenter9:50

Yeah, there was a lot of like 3D stuff going on. Yeah, he sounds very can-do, just very interesting guy. Yeah, people loved him. He was a real character and a performer. He was working in this incredible theatre TV industry. He did a lot of work. He worked with Morgan Wise and people like that. He was really up there in the art scene of that time. But I think he just was looking for something, which I don't think he ever quite found, which I think was a shame.

Tahra Zafar9:57

Yeah.

Presenter10:22

All right, Tara, let's see your second disc today. What's it going to be? It had to be a Bernstein and it had to be Westside Story. But the record that I'd like it to be isn't the original London cast recording, in actual fact, because my father sang in it, but he wasn't featured. And he had this record of songs from Westside Story, and he got to sing Gee Officer Krupke. So I'd like that one. You'll hear the man that he is. Let's just say he enjoyed every moment of it.

Tahra Zafar11:02

Yeah.

Presenter11:04

Kindly Sergeant Krapkey, you gotta understand. It's just our bringing up key that gets us out of hand. Our mothers all are junkies. Our fathers all are drunks. Golly m-

Tahra Zafar11:15

Moses, naturally we're punks G, officer Krono Keith, we're very upset. We never had the love that every child oughta get. We ain't no delinquents, we're misunderstood.

Presenter11:27

G. Officer Krupke from Bernstein's West Side Story performed by your dad, Leo Caribbean, with Norman Ferber and Vince Logan. What's it like hearing his voice again hearing that?

Presenter11:39

It's wonderful'cause he had such a distinctive voice. And you said that he used to dance in the street outside and annoy the neighbors. Yeah, he used to tap dance outside some neighbors up the road from us and really annoy them.

Tahra Zafar11:44

That's uh and and

Presenter11:53

It's kind of like a bugs bunny, sort of daffy-duck annoying, that kind of style. Got it. Sometimes. Got it.

Tahra Zafar11:59

But sometimes

Presenter12:01

So your mum, Jenny, she was a ballet dancer at first, but she got too tall, so she branched out. Yes, well she was a fantastic dancer. You know, she was a very beautiful dancer. She was at the Royal Ballet School. Gru

Presenter12:15

bit too much. She was like five foot seven. It's not you know, but when you're on point that is that is tall. And so she became principal dancer and went out on tour.

Tahra Zafar12:19

Mm-hmm.

Presenter12:25

when she was very young, round like s yeah, in her teen sixteen seventeen? Sixteen initially. She needed a chaperone, which was her best friend. And she went round um Italy, France and um Las Vegas, and she was like principal dancer and very

Tahra Zafar12:27

How old is it?

Presenter12:43

Very good dancer as well. So, this is Las Vegas, what, in the 50s, the rat pack era. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did she tell you about that? Oh my god, there's amazing stories. Her best friend Amy MacDonald, they lived together in Las Vegas and had an extraordinary time kind of circumnavigating that era. And there were some like extraordinary.

Tahra Zafar12:47

Rat Pack Era

Presenter13:04

Things going on. There were the atom bombs being tested. All the hotels saw that as kind of a revenue, you know, so they would have atom bomb picnics in Las Vegas and people go out and watch the bombs being exploded. So go out into the Nevada desert. Yeah. And did she, and your mum did that? No, my mum was really annoyed because her shifts never allowed her to go. Thank God for that. Yeah. Did she rub shoulders with you know any of your Sammy Davis Jr.'s or Frank Sinatra's? Yes. They were all there then and they got, you know, were asked out for meals and things like that, which did she go?

Presenter13:41

Wow.

Presenter13:43

I do know that Nat Kinkole was quite keen on her. Frankson Archer was quite keen on Amy, I think. Maybe stories for them to tell. But an amazing place to be, you know, at an extraordinary time. So I'm trying to picture your mum, Tara, because she also acted in films, TV, commercials. I wonder what it was like seeing this kind of extremely glamorous on-screen, on-stage version of her and then the mum that you had at home, because your mum and dad split when you were little, so she would have been a single parent most of the time. Yeah, very young, single parent, very beautiful young lady. It must have been really hard. You know, there were times when it was a bit tough, but we got through it in the way we got through it. And we had like this extraordinary kind of cultural life. We used to go to the theatre and exhibitions all the time. We didn't go on holidays and things like that, but we did the arts in style.

Tahra Zafar14:16

She would have been

Tahra Zafar14:17

Yeah, fair.

Tahra Zafar14:18

Yeah.

Presenter14:39

So, Tara, your mum had you when she was very young, you know, and she was a dancer then, but she changed career later. What did she end up doing? We were kind of leaving home, and she was only about 38. She, with her work, had decided to help out with production while she was performing, and that role kind of grew. And she ended up working for some theatre producers, eventually got a job with Camera Macintosh and was with him for 22 years. And she did all of his overseas licensing of all of his shows. Because she was a performer and because she did all of that, she had that knowledge of the whole kind of side of theatre. I'd love to hear your third disc, please, Tara Zafar. What's it going to be? So, the third one is part of being at home. We had this box set of Beethoven symphonies, and we listened to them and listened to them and listened to them. And Beethoven Ninth was something that we used to listen to a lot. And I kind of felt I would like something symphonic on the island and something choral.

Tahra Zafar15:13

Why don't you

Presenter15:51

that I could sing along really badly to quite loudly, I thought would be quite fun.

Presenter16:47

Part of the finale from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, performed by the Berlin Philharmonic and the Vienna Singverine, conducted by Herbert von Karrion. Tara, from a young age, you say you hunkered into art. What kind of things were you making? I would make things like all the time. So every like Easter or Christmas I get given like an airfix model, machinery that really kind of appealed to me. And so I would make all these aeroplanes and paint them and hang them for my bedroom. I would do lots of painting. I'd make clothes. I would make lots of tiny things, you know, like a tiny rolled-up measuring tape cover with little felt flowers and some buttons on top and things like that for my granny. It was like I would always be making things. So you just leave a trail of creation behind you for a few minutes.

Tahra Zafar17:37

He went.

Presenter17:38

And you were diagnosed with dyslexia when you were a kid, which I I found quite surprising because it was often not tested for in those days. No, it wasn't tested for and my mum was really on it because my school said I was writing backwards at one point and had quite a stressful time with a teacher being kind of quite

Tahra Zafar17:41

Point.

Presenter17:58

Quite nasty, and my mum said no, you know. So she took me to a specialist, and in those days they do like IQ tests and then they do all of those sort of things. And I was diagnosed with dyslexia, but you know, I also had a high IQ and things like that. So it was kind of proof that I wasn't.

Presenter18:19

Stupid. The important thing is to understand yourself, isn't it? And to not internalize the kind of negativity that you were getting from, for example, that teacher that you were talking about. So, were you able to do that? How did you feel about yourself and what was your approach to learning? It was difficult, actually, because I think.

Tahra Zafar18:27

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar18:33

Two learning

Presenter18:37

If you're a kid who's got a really good memory and can do school easily, you're going to feel great about yourself.

Tahra Zafar18:44

Uh

Presenter18:45

If you're the child who has lots of different skills and is told that they're not in the top set or that they can't do this and can't do that, they're not going to feel great about themselves. Was that you? That was me. They did the tests that they did, and I ended up going to a Saturday school for gifted children and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and got accepted into a school. Kind of at that point, it was semi-selective, comprehensive. Camden School for Girls. Camden School for Girls. But I still found it really hard. I don't think I ever really fitted in until I kind of.

Tahra Zafar19:14

Uh

Speaker 319:15

Uh

Presenter19:20

Grew up enough to be confident enough to know who I was or could be. You also had a very inspirational art teacher at Camden School for Girls, Chris Livesey? Chris Livesey, yes, he was absolutely amazing. And I spent a lot of time in the art room and he really kind of pushed my art. I'm very sad he's no longer with us and I didn't quite get a moment to say thank you, which I'm kick myself for, which is a great shame that I didn't do that. But his art room. was was really an amazing place. He had this pair of boots, which if other people went to the school, I'm sure they all drew these old boots. But were you know, there was always a still life set up, so you could go in there and do a still life draw or paint or whatever. You know, really clever.

Tahra Zafar20:13

You know

Presenter20:14

Tara Zafar, it's time for your next disc, your fourth choice today, please. What are we going to hear? This is part of my art school time and the brilliant film Terry Gilliam's Brazil. And what an amazing filmmaker. And the soundtrack is Brazil that I'd like to have on my desert island. I have this thing that it's kind of a theme tune. So if I go into a hotel or somewhere and they've got kind of a pianist, cheesy pianist, I always go up and say, excuse me, because you play Brazil. And they always do. Do they know it? Is it all the pianists know? Yeah, really all over the world. And they all do their own version. I love it. And I particularly like this particular version, which was from the film, the soundtrack, because it's got a good bit of whistling and I like whistling. So I can whistle around.

Tahra Zafar20:45

Is it?

Presenter20:59

Are you a good whistler? Yes, I am. Oh no, my dad whistled, so we were whistling. Duettes. Yeah.

Tahra Zafar21:01

Self-soft

Presenter21:08

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar21:20

Frozen, we're hunts for entertaining cheer.

Tahra Zafar21:29

We stood beneath an amber moon

Tahra Zafar21:34

Then softly murmured, some day soft

Presenter21:42

Brazil from the soundtrack performed by Jeff Mulda.

Presenter21:47

Tara Zafar, you studied theatre design at Central School of Art and Design, Central St Martins these days. How did you get your first job? I got my first job actually from my degree show, which I was pretty lucky. An amazing costume designer called Stephanie Howard came in and had seen that while I was at college I did a lot of the pub theatre. So I designed lots of shows at in kind of pub theatres all around London. And I'd had to paint the set, make the set, do the costumes and things like that. So I kind of, I was, you know, very handy. She asked me to be her assistant for the English Shakespeare Company's War of the Roses. They were going to do the whole of the Wars of the Roses, which started from Richard II, Henry IV, the two, Henry V, and then ending in Richard III. A lot. Quite an undertaking. So I got asked to be her assistant in the design department for her initially, and then I kind of moved over and did buying, costume buying. So there you were, you were working on stage and you know with theatre shows. Your career was going very well, but then you had the opportunity to work at the Jim Henson Creature shop, the father of the Muppets. Father of the Muppets. What was that like? This is this building in Camden. This is the 90s. What an extraordinary place to work. What was it like? Oh, it was amazing. We were on Camden Lock, so the building was on the side of the canal. It was the whole building. I'm just imagining loads of fake fur and loads of different folks. Oh, yes, of course. And quite a lot of fun. Please tell me that Kermit and Miss Piggy came to visit. They did.

Tahra Zafar23:03

The fast

Tahra Zafar23:21

Oh, well yes.

Presenter23:29

Everyone just got so excited. I got some got some pictures and all of that sort of thing. Like a royal visit, oh, it's a complete royal visit, yeah.

Tahra Zafar23:35

Yeah.

Presenter23:37

Yeah. We had a fabrication floor where we did the making and then with the hair departments and then upstairs was like the start of computer generated creatures and so that was the top floor with all of the offices. So it was this hive of industry. Worked on many different things, lots of pop promos, commercials like Honey Monster and that's where we did the monkey for ITV Digital, which is now the P D Tips monkey. Did lots of projects and then working on the first Harry Potter movie there. Okay, well I want to come to that. I'm going to pause and put a pin in it for a second.

Tahra Zafar24:14

Post it.

Presenter24:17

Because you met your husband James at the creature workshop, James. Yes, yes. Did your eyes meet over a monster's head? What happened? It was actually, it was a sea turtle. But yes. We were doing a production of Pan for Australia and he came in to sculpt it. Yeah, so we met there. He was at the time art directing on

Presenter24:40

TFI Friday and had originally done like the big breakfast in the kind of art department, but was also a sculptor, had trained to be a sculptor and an illustrator. How quickly did you hit it off? Really quickly, you know, we're really kind of kindred spirits and yeah, it was it was lovely.

Presenter24:58

So you were involved in making the creatures for Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. This takes us up to 2000, fabricating Hedwig the Owl, Scabbers the Rat. Was it as magical to work on as it was to watch? It was really exciting because we'd read all the books and, you know, when that film production started, it was really wonderful. We made this stunt scabbers that had to go in and out of Ron's pocket. They trained all of these lovely rats to do different tricks. At the sound of a bell, one would run up some stairs or go onto someone's shoulder or eat something or stop.

Presenter25:35

And they all looked identical. We asked, can we have one to copy? Because it had to be identical. And they said, oh, you can have this one, Max, because he's a bit thin and he doesn't like being handled. He's not doing very well at the training, but you can have him to copy. And we had him at the workshop, and then came the weekend. It was like, well, who's going to look after Max at the weekend? So we ended up taking him home. And he was a very well-loved rat and got fed a lot and adored by everybody at work and handled and played with. And when we returned him at the end, he'd put on weight and liked being handled. And he made it into the film. No way. Oh, what a happy ending for Max the rat. Yeah.

Tahra Zafar26:17

Declax

Presenter26:19

Let's have some more music, Tariza, for your fifth choice today. What's next? Well, it's Stevie Wonder, because I love Stevie Wonder, and I really wanted Sir Sir Duke because it's not only about a brilliant musician, but it's got lots of people in it. I think that's what I'm going to miss, you know, on the island, is being around people and the noise, you know, they make when they're having a nice time. So it would make me feel as if they were maybe I would be sitting in my bedroom or doing something and they'd be in the next door room. But I would be quite happy kind of listening to the party that was happening. And the energy, I thought it would be really good while I'm

Presenter27:01

Maybe stripping some bark and doing some weaving to make a comfy bed, or maybe trying to make my first knife, which I might have to make. I thought they would be really invigorating morning music.

Tahra Zafar27:18

Music is a world within itself. Will the language be all understand?

Tahra Zafar27:27

But it

Speaker 227:27

An equal operator

Speaker 227:35

Just because the record has improved, don't make it in the room But you can tell right away

Presenter27:45

Stevie Wonder and Sir Duke. Tara, in 2004, your daughter Zara was born, and I think she proved incredibly useful at helping you with your first job back after maternity leave because you worked on the children's series in the night garden. You helped bring Upsy Daisy to life. How was she instrumental in the development of those costumes and puppets? I started part-time when it was my first, as you said, first job back. Started part-time. And by the time we finished the project, you know, because there's many stages to a project before you go into the main build, she was our audience. So she was like three, three and a half at that point. So by the time I'd finished the Pontupines and the Wattingers. I remember them well. I've got kids that age, yeah. Yeah. They, yes, lived next door to one another, a bit of one-upmanship going on there.

Tahra Zafar28:30

Go kids.

Presenter28:36

Very funny. One had a moustache, one did a mass. Ponty Pines were quite hectic. The Watt inches, I remember being a bit more chilled out, as I remember. Yeah.

Tahra Zafar28:38

Plenty p

Tahra Zafar28:42

Yeah.

Presenter28:44

She was completely of that age for us to kind of watch it and love it. A really lovely project to be involved with. And there were live theatre shows for In the Night Garden as well. Yes, and those live theatre shows which are still going every year. What I love is it's the first theatre experience for many children. And you go into the theatre and strangely, you think it's empty.

Tahra Zafar28:56

As well.

Presenter29:11

Because you see all the seats from the back. It's only when you go to the front you can see lots of little small people sitting in them.

Tahra Zafar29:16

Small people

Presenter29:18

But they're, you know, on their booster seats and just.

Tahra Zafar29:20

Yeah.

Presenter29:22

So excited. They're so excited to see all of those beautiful characters come to life, and it really is very lovely. There's a surprisingly mathematical side to puppet, scale, and proportion, though, isn't there? It's, you know, there's something underpinning all of this. Yeah, there is. I think under a lot of what I do, even though it looks very soft and gentle, there's a lot of mathematics and there's a lot of with proportions, getting everything right, working out how things work. And there's also quite a lot of technical things of electronics and mechanics and exploring materials and things like that. So, yeah, that's my other brain side that gets very happy when I'm kind of working those things out as well.

Tahra Zafar29:23

There's

Tahra Zafar29:34

So this is that

Presenter30:05

Time for some more music I think Tara is afar. Your sixth disc today. What is it? It's um Groove is in the Heart. Some of my choices have been made for maybe what I would get up to on the island. So I would have kind of some activities which were morning songs. But I think as I get to Groove is in the heart, it's kind of late afternoon or later at night, maybe with a fire going, having a good dance. And again, it's reminding me of having a really good bop. You need to have a really good be able to have a dance and kind of feel a bit free. You're going to be a bit free. You're going to be by yourself. You don't need to worry about what anyone else is thinking. That's what I've gone for.

Tahra Zafar30:45

I'm going to dance.

Tahra Zafar30:47

Going to dance.

Tahra Zafar30:49

We're going to din and have some fun.

Speaker 231:00

Dig

Speaker 331:08

The chills that you spill up my back leave me filled with satisfaction when we're done, satisfaction of what's to come.

Presenter31:16

D Light and Grooves in the Heart. Tara Zafar, you were head of costume, hair and makeup for the London twenty twelve Olympic and Paralympic ceremonies. Your team created a mind boggling twenty three thousand costumes. What were you tasked with and how on earth did you approach something of that scale?

Presenter31:35

Well

Presenter31:37

What's a task? So I was there for like just under two years. So it was like a year and three quarters. And for the first three months, it was just me and lots of spreadsheets. We had like four creative teams who all needed attention, love and care. And you were quite keen that everything should come from British suppliers. Yes. Why was that important to you? Very important to me. Well, we the taxpayers were paying for it. So I kind of set that as my personal goal.

Tahra Zafar31:56

Yeah.

Presenter32:06

That we would only use British manufacturers. And we just found some wonderful companies who really sort of understood what we were at. Part of my job was not only on the dry side initially, was to get all of these spreadsheets and timelines kind of put together and finding all these factories. And then it came the fun bit of actually doing it and creating it. And at what point did Danny say, well, we've got the Queen?

Presenter32:37

They had the idea, and they went to the palace, and they said yes.

Presenter32:42

But they didn't think she would be involved as much as she was. They didn't think she would do a skydive initially. No, you know, but and you know, we'd made a a costume for a double and a stunt double. I worked really closely with the Palace on that. Yes, and you you and you went to Buckingham Palace to prepare the Queen's outfit for her James Bond sketch. Yeah, well the um Angela Kelly, who's this amazing, amazing, amazing um lady who was just like the best one of the Queen's best friends she was. And she was her dresser, wasn't she? She was and and and went into lockdown with her and all of that sort of thing. She was really up for us getting involved and helping us for as much as much as possible. It was a very wonderful insight into how much people work behind the scenes on all of these things, making sure the dress is in the right place or maybe the she was in the late Queen would be in Sandringham or

Tahra Zafar32:48

No, and you

Tahra Zafar32:55

Yes, um you

Tahra Zafar33:10

Thank you.

Tahra Zafar33:12

She was and uh

Tahra Zafar33:16

Yeah.

Speaker 233:32

Hi.

Presenter33:36

Windsor, they've all got to be in the right place, you know. They've got to have all their logistics. And, you know, in terms of her response to you and to what you were planning, what did she make of it? Because I know that you had to match the stunt double's wig to her hair. Yes, so we did have an audience, a private audience, in one of her rooms, and me and the wig supervisor, Matt. It was wonderful. We were only in there for about as long as you could boil an egg.

Tahra Zafar33:41

The logistics

Presenter34:04

But we had these hair samples and we had to match them. The light wasn't very good, and we all had to shuffle over into the

Presenter34:11

The bay of the wi window with the with the lake queen there, and she was very game. And then I had to write all these very complicated labels with all the different samples.

Tahra Zafar34:21

Uh

Presenter34:21

With her watching me, like, oh, I'm not going to, my hands can't shake now. I've got to.

Tahra Zafar34:23

But

Presenter34:27

Um we got this very beautiful wigmaid and you could have done shot to shot back of head, front of head with our with our copy, but we didn't need to use it in the end because she she did the whole thing.

Presenter34:40

So we were delighted.

Presenter34:43

And what about the big night itself? I mean, what was it like for you watching the audience's reaction?

Presenter34:49

When we got to The Queen's Arrival, I did watch and I just I was just blown away by it all.

Presenter34:56

But when the fireworks are going off at the end of the show and you know you've delivered it and everyone has had a great time, very important, it's so exciting. And the volunteer cast were given all their costumes as a thank you. So they all got the tube home after the show and you'd have all of the Industrial Revolution and then you'd have the people who were in Thanks Tim, you know, that amazing section for Sir Tim Berners-Lee and they'd be in their kind of their kind of seventies vibe or their sixties vibe and they'd all be kind of it's like this big soup of people in these wonderful costumes. Carriage after carriage.

Tahra Zafar35:16

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar35:18

Industrial Revolution.

Tahra Zafar35:25

And you have to do it.

Tahra Zafar35:36

How is your

Presenter35:38

So, Tara, London 2012 was obviously an incredible professional high. I know that in the years that followed, you and your husband James went through some very tough times. He was diagnosed with bone cancer and he died in 2016. I think treatment moved very fast after he got his diagnosis. What happened, and how did you approach it? How did you handle what you were going through, the two of you?

Presenter36:01

Well, you've just uh yeah, so he he went from rounds of GP, going back forwards to the GP to finally seeing a specialist, and then you finally see the specialist and they say, Oh, yes, you're I'm really sorry, but you're gonna have to lose your lower leg and you're gonna start chemo. We want you to start tomorrow, and um, you get taken to that room, that room at the side, and tears didn't really happen because you're just so stunned. Yeah, um, but um it's uh it's tough, you know, it was um it was but he's a r was a really fit young man.

Tahra Zafar36:27

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar36:39

Yeah.

Presenter36:39

So and they said, you know, he's for being a fit young man, they love people who are fit and because they do really well. So he yeah, he had to have his leg amputated below the knee. But because he was stubborn and got on with it, while he was doing chemo he got himself into a good place so that he could then start being fitted for a prosthesis. So he was in a chair for a short time, which he hated, a wheelchair for a total, which he hated, and then started the kind of the road to rehabilitation and trying to walk. But the whole time he liked he was in chemo after chemo because he was a fit young person.

Presenter37:28

They just kind of threw it all at him to kind of keep him going.

Presenter37:32

I think you've said that, however difficult what you were going through was.

Presenter37:36

There was also an element that you valued the quality of the time that you spent together. You made sure that the way you approached the time that you had together was you chose how you spent your time. Yeah, I stopped working to kind of be with him and look after him. And actually what kept him going is because he could draw, he was he so after being at Henson's, Jim Henson Creature Shop, he then became known for T V production designer and did Master Chef and Great British Bake Off and was known for doing kind of

Presenter38:13

Cool cooking programmes, but then also was this amazing illustrator, and he could.

Presenter38:20

He did lots of concept drawings for T V shows or do storyboards and things like that. So he managed to kind of keep himself going by drawing, which he could do sitting down anywhere. So he did that as best as he could whenever he could. And I just stopped and we spent time together. And it was lovely, actually. Even the worst of times and best of times, you know. I think.

Tahra Zafar38:41

Mm-hmm.

Presenter38:47

The more the more time you spend with someone, the more you kn notice the details of their life and uh get to appreciate that, so that it's um yeah, it's it's kind of you know you're doing the right thing.

Presenter39:04

And um I don't know whether that sounds a bit shallow in some ways, but I think um there's there's um

Presenter39:16

When you know you're giving someone time.

Presenter39:19

It is rewarding, whatever however hard and horrible it is, it is it's just the thing that you want to do.

Presenter39:29

And he sounds amazing. I mean, he climbed Maim Techna apparently once he got his prosthesis sorted. Yeah, yeah. He um so he kind of actually he tried to keep his ill i illness under the wire for quite a long time and would turn up for meetings with trousers on and you wouldn't really know

Presenter39:46

how he was like what was going on underneath. We went on our holiday and yeah, he climbed out of the scree of Mount Etna with his prosthetic leg and with a few people and they all gave him a big round of applause at the top.

Presenter40:02

But it was yeah, very special times.

Presenter40:05

And what kept you going? Who who supported you, you know, during that time and then also after h he died? You know, how have you managed that? Well, my my lovely mother and sister and my Alexi, my half-sister, you know, and we've got much closer as a result of going through going through that time.

Presenter40:26

Let's have some more music, Tara. Your seventh choice today. I have to take Pink Floyd Eclipse, which we actually used in the opening ceremony. This moment we used in the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. I think I definitely want to base myself on the sunset side of the island, whether or not it's on the shipping line or whether it's not, I don't really care. But I think there's nothing nicer than watching the sunset. So I would put on Eclipse by Pink Floyd and I will feel part and connected to the wonderful cosmos of the world and feel quite small but quite big at the same time and just take it all in.

Speaker 341:13

Now let you see.

Speaker 341:16

I'll edit.

Speaker 341:19

Yeah.

Presenter41:19

Yeah.

Speaker 341:19

Uh

Presenter41:19

How you feel?

Presenter41:21

And how much you love and how much you hate.

Presenter41:26

Are you distressed?

Presenter41:29

Hard to say.

Presenter41:31

Don't let you get a new

Tahra Zafar41:37

I don't let you fight

Presenter41:41

Pink Floyd and Eclipse. So Tara, when the Eurovision Song Contest came to Liverpool in 2023, you were the natural choice as head of costume after all that you'd done in London 2012 and beyond. Now what does costume for Eurovision actually involve? Were you dressing the performers, the contestants? No, I wasn't and I wish I was. We supported all of the different countries with their costume needs. So I'm imagining sequins everywhere at this point. Lots of sequins. If you think about what it could be like and then you think it was like ten times crazier.

Presenter42:22

That is exactly that is Eurovision. And you'd suddenly have the King and Queen coming around, or you'd have Peppa Pig appearing, or you'd have all sorts going on. It was great fun. And for us, because it was we were hosting it because Ukraine couldn't, so we had lots of Ukrainian talent coming over, which was very humbling because, you know, they would be coming from a war zone.

Tahra Zafar42:22

That is exactly.

Tahra Zafar42:25

Yeah.

Tahra Zafar42:40

Mm-hmm.

Presenter42:52

And they would drop into Liverpool and all the craziness of the Eurovision Song Contest, and then they returned afterwards to Ukraine. You had to keep remembering that the experience that I was having was very, very different from the experience they were having. You know, it must have been quite surreal for them.

Tahra Zafar43:10

Experience.

Presenter43:13

Well, it's almost time to cast you away to your island. What kind of place are you hoping for? You've imagined Tracy Island, so it sounds like it's going to be busy. Yeah, I think I need to find something to cut things so I can make things, make a little nest for myself. On the survival front, I think I'd be I think I'd be fine. Um I might have different moods, so I maybe have some different camps at different sides of the island, depending on

Presenter43:39

Or I might just want to build a little kind of green barrier and hide for a little bit. What I love is how you can instantly visualise your island. You've talked about the different sides, you've talked about the different times of day, you've got it in your mind's eye immediately, which makes complete sense given what you do for a living. But I kind of think, you know, you'd be one of the most prepared castaways in that sense that we've ever sent to the island. Maybe.

Presenter44:05

My main issue in my life is I don't is time is f fill, you know, filled up with stuff.

Presenter44:13

I'm really looking forward to having a bit of quiet head time to just really enjoy myself and kind of be in the moment and do what I do. So, yes. Well, I think you should embrace the island on those terms, Tara. And before you go, we will, of course, give you your eighth disc. What's your final choice today? It is Dave Brubeck take five. Why that's fine?

Presenter44:38

Oh, I've chosen that because it's slightly mathematical. You know, it's like a modern Mozart mathematics. It's got a calmness to it, which I think is beautiful. Yeah, and kind of reminds me of like New York and places like that, cities. So I think I will. I am, you know, I'm a Londoner, I'm a Cockney, you know, all of that sort of thing. I will miss the city. So I think that will make me very happy.

Presenter46:08

Dave Brubeck and Take Five, bringing the urban environment to your island, Tara Zafar. You're going to need a drink to go with that track though. Yes, I am no doubt going to find some good fruit that I could maybe ferment and I could have a cheeky little cocktail while I'm watching. I'm going to see you now on the sunset side of your island.

Tahra Zafar46:25

Can we see you now on the solo?

Presenter46:29

So, Tara Zafar, I'm going to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the books to take with you: the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book of your choice. What's that going to be? After lots of consideration, I did think about Dickens and whether you could get the whole of every Dickens novel into one big fat book. But I thought, you know, that was a bit silly. But I would like the compendium of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Now, that does exist. Yes, I looked it up, I checked.

Tahra Zafar46:58

Guys

Speaker 246:59

Don't

Presenter47:01

You can absolutely have it. So a favourite of yours? Yeah, and I think I could look at and read many beautiful books, but something that is kind of of my era, of my time. I listen to it on the radio, I watch the TV series, I worked on the film. You worked on the film? Yeah. And its friendly words saying don't panic on the front would be very good for me on the island, I think.

Tahra Zafar47:18

You

Presenter47:26

That's the perfect choice, Tara. I'll also give you a luxury item to make your time there more enjoyable. What are you going to go for? The time is.

Presenter47:35

an issue. I'd love some time to think and I'd love some time to write something and to draw some things. So I think I just want some really good sketch books.

Presenter47:45

And some art materials to go with it.

Tahra Zafar47:47

Go ahead.

Presenter47:48

But what I would like

Presenter47:50

is I

Presenter47:52

I know islands can get very suffer from humidity. Oh, yes. So I don't really want them being a mouldy, soggy mess as I'm working on them. So I would also like a cabinet that would keep a constant humidity that I could store my sketchbooks in if that is allowed. Yes, we could do what we like. By the time I come off the island, they probably would be mouldy otherwise. So an anti-humidity cabinet full of art supplies? Yes. Perfect. It's a great luxury. It's yours. Thank you. And finally, which one track of the eight that we've heard today would you save from the waves?

Tahra Zafar48:16

Otherwise

Presenter48:31

Well, I think I would save Eclipse uh Pink Floyd because it's just huge music, simple huge music that I would just let wash over me in a sort of I'm a person in the cosmos sort of

Presenter48:48

sort of way. And then all the others I could sing along to in my head if I had to while I was doing all the things that I'm going to be doing. Fabulous. Tara Zafar. Thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you very much for having me.

Presenter49:13

Hello, it was lovely chatting to Tara and I hope she's very happy on our island with her art materials and a nice cocktail on the go. There are more than 2,000 programmes in our archive that you can listen to, including the film costume designers Jenny Bevan and Sandy Powell. The author of Tara's favourite book, Douglas Adams, is also in our archive. You can hear all their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our own Desert Island Disc's website. The studio manager for today's programme was Giles Aspen, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylands, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Join me next time when my guest will be the photographer Richard Young.

Speaker 350:18

From BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 350:21

Wolf Valley

Speaker 350:22

Who's Martinson?

Speaker 250:24

Hello? Two?

Speaker 250:26

Are you in map?

Speaker 350:28

Four people have died over the last five years, all within the same organisation.

Speaker 350:32

Hello?

Speaker 350:34

Yeah.

Speaker 250:34

Toad?

Speaker 250:35

We're in three different countries, no fault accidents seen individually, but

Tahra Zafar50:43

Uh

Presenter50:43

Hey.

Presenter50:46

Oh, hey oh, hey, hey.

Speaker 350:47

Oh hey

Speaker 350:52

Listen to Wolf Valley first on BBC Sounds.