Lorraine Kelly

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is the journalist and broadcaster Lorraine Kelly. Though let's be honest, in daytime TV, no surname is necessary. There is only one Lorraine, a morning staple in British homes for some 40 years. She was born in Glasgow and started out as a reporter on the East Kilbride News. In time, she graduated to covering stories across Scotland for ITV's morning news. She was one of the first reporters on the scene in the aftermath of the Lockerbie bombing, trying to make sense of the devastating terrorist attack while the emergency services were still arriving. Her calm yet compassionate coverage brought her to the attention of ITV bosses, and she's been a mainstay of the morning schedule ever since. In her many years on our screens, she's interviewed everyone from George Clooney and Julia Roberts to Sakia Starmer and David Cameron. Her coverage of the Dunblane massacre in 1996 led to a connection with the families affected that endures to this day. She's broken to booze, one of the first to bring conversations about the menopause and breast cancer to mainstream TV, and has been awarded the title Honorary Gay by Attitude magazine for her long-standing support of the LGBTQ community. Her other awards include an OBE, a CBE and a BAFTA Special Award for her outstanding contribution to television. She says, people often dismiss breakfast TV as cozy and that's a mistake. I like to think I'm sharp but disarming. I ask the questions. I just wear kid gloves. Lorraine Kelly, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Oh, it's so good to be here. Oh, it's great to have you. So sharp but disarming. That's such an interesting combination. How do you hit the right tone?

Lorraine Kelly2:23

It's a really, really interesting question. I always remember Piers Morgan said, I was an iron fist in a velvet glove. And I loved that description so, so much. And I don't mind when people come in, particularly politicians, and they underestimate you because then they're on the back foot. It's just quite handy that. Yeah, and I don't do the sort of gladiatorial style of interviewing someone, which is more like an interrogation. I do like to let people talk because oftentimes, particularly with politicians, they don't quite know how to handle that and they trip themselves up and they end up being very revealing a lot more than they would if you just hectored them all the time, you know. My thing is, and I think I learned that from my parents, is just treat everybody the same. You know, it doesn't matter who they are.

Speaker 12:41

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly3:12

How much they think of themselves, and everyone is just the same, you know, and I think that's really, really important. To make sure that you treat people with respect, of course, you know, you don't go in there shouting at them. But part of the job for me, especially if it's somebody who's come on to talk about something really difficult, is I need to make sure they go away feeling that they've done themselves proud or whoever it is they're talking about. You know, say it is a mother talking about a campaign she has on knife crime because her child has been killed or badly hurt. She has to go away feeling that she's done them proud and herself. That's really, really important to me. You are on occasion though.

Presenter3:49

Not backwards in coming forwards when you disapprove of something. And, Lorraine, you did once cause a stir when you criticised the businesswoman, Jennifer Arcurie, off the back of her.

Lorraine Kelly3:51

Yeah.

Presenter3:59

Shrown her eyes already. Here we go. Off the back of an interview that she'd given on Good Morning Britain. So at the time, it was alleged that she benefited commercially because of her relationship with Boris Johnson when he was Mayor of London. She'd gone on to talk about this and then not said very much, said she wasn't going to answer any direct questions about the relationship. That clip stopped.

Speaker 14:00

So here we go.

Speaker 14:04

Yeah.

Speaker 14:08

Because if

Lorraine Kelly4:20

Trending pretty quickly. So funny, wasn't it? So funny. See, that's the thing. Sometimes I do actually forget that I'm on the television, and I've got quite a good self-edit button. But now and again, now and again, I just think, oh, come on. Talking to Piers and Susanna, who asked all the questions that I would have asked her, and she just stonewalled it. And I thought, what is the point of you coming on here and not answering the question? Just don't bother, don't waste our time. And I just thought, no, no, I'm not having this, not having to behave yourself. It's interesting because.

Speaker 14:32

And again, I just think

Presenter4:51

I was watching the the clip back, it seemed to me that you were almost more annoyed on behalf of the viewers.

Lorraine Kelly4:57

Oh yes, thank you. That's exactly what it was because that's exactly what it's all about. The viewers were sold short because they deserve to have the facts and if she doesn't want to get asked those kind of questions and we're using her as an example but it could have been so many other people. If you don't want to be asked questions do not come on because there's no point because all the things they don't want to talk about are the things that we want to hear about. And I always think to myself if you have had something happening to you that's difficult and you know you're going to get asked about it the best place to go is live television because you can have your say and nobody can edit it. You have your say and you move on.

Presenter5:33

One.

Lorraine Kelly5:34

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly5:34

Uh

Presenter5:34

It's time for your first disc, Lorraine. Tell us about this, because I know this is a big artist for you.

Lorraine Kelly5:40

Uh

Presenter5:40

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly5:40

Oh, David Bowie, I have loved since the 60s. At school, we all loved him. There was a gang of Bowie fans. You know, I found my tribe. I had moved from Glasgow to Eastcoat Bride because back then all the tenements were getting knocked down and then you were sent out to a new town or a new scheme. And you know, when you go to secondary school, it's a massive secondary school, over a thousand pupils there. And I'm like, how do I make friends? And it was through David Bowie, through appreciation of David Bowie. I used to sometimes put a circle on my head. Oh, the ladies. Yeah, he had a circle and he said with little rhinestones around it. And then I embroidered David Bowie on the back of my duffel coat that was huge because obviously everybody's mum and dad bought them a massive duffel coat. To grow into it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that. So really, if it hadn't been for Bowie, I probably would have been really lonely. And this track was on top of the pops. And you know, when he points his finger and he says, I had to call someone and I picked on you.

Presenter6:11

The yellow insane

Speaker 36:22

To grow into

Lorraine Kelly6:39

I've talked to so many Baby fans who was he was talking right at me. He was talking to me. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. He was talking to me. Him and McBronson, the amazing guitarist. Oh, it was just amazing. I honestly thought he was just talking to me and Starman. It was wonderful.

Speaker 36:56

Is this

Speaker 36:58

Waiting in the sky He'd like to come and meet us But he thinks he'd blow our minds There's a storm man waiting in the sky He's tells us not to blow it Cause he knows it's all worthwhile

Speaker 37:18

Yeah.

Speaker 37:20

Children use hands belong to Children Blue Games.

Presenter7:25

David Bowie and Starman. So let's go back to the beginning, Lorraine. You were born the eldest of two in Glasgow in 1959, and your parents, Anna John, had both just turned 18 when you were born. How had they met?

Lorraine Kelly7:37

My wee mum, when she was very, very young, she was only about seven or eight, and her and her three sisters were put into a convent and they lived there and they were educated there. And she basically stepped out of the convent, got a job in Semples in Denison, and it was like a record shop where they sold televisions and radiograms and all of that. So she was the girl that, if you came in and wanted to buy, you know, the latest Elvis, she would be playing it for you because you were allowed to listen. The listening booths. The listening booths. I mean god.

Speaker 38:07

The lesson in birds.

Lorraine Kelly8:10

It's a great idea. So and my dad was an apprentice T V engineer and he took her out to the dancing. One thing led to another and my mum found herself pregnant and you know she she told me that they went to see her mother, Granny Mac, who was a very, very formidable woman and she wanted my mum to go down south because her bigger sister Jacqueline lived in Cheltenham to have the baby which was me.

Lorraine Kelly8:37

And then to put the baby up for adoption. And my wee dad, who was from the Gorbles, and he had his Elvis haircut and he had his wee suit on and his wee pointy shoes, because back then the shoes were pointy.

Presenter8:47

Is it wing cupping?

Lorraine Kelly8:48

These winkle pickers, but they were so cheap that they turned up at the end. You looked like some Aladdin, you know.

Lorraine Kelly8:53

And he goes up to the scariest woman in the world and says, No, no, no, we're going to get married. We're going to get married And they did. They they got married in July and then I was born in November. So I always remember when I was old enough, sort of going counting on my fingers and my mum would go, You are premature.

Lorraine Kelly9:11

The miracle baby, the miracle baby, who cares? But you know, back then, I suppose people did care, but who cares? But they were so young. And they moved to this called a single end, just a one-room in the Gorbals with an outside toilet, you know, one tap, a wee recess for the bed, and then me and a wee cot. And then we moved when I was, I think I was a couple of years old, we moved to Bridgeton and we had an inside toilet. We went right up in the world, right up in the world. But when I look back on it now, we had a living room with a wee sort of kitchen, you know, in the same room. So kitchenette. Yeah, kitchenette thing. And a wee sink. And then there was the bedroom. And me, my mum and dad, and my wee brother Graham, who was six years younger, we were all in the same bedroom till I was like 12. But it was fine. I mean, everybody was in the same boat, but people loved coming to my house. And why was that? Because mum and dad were so young. Ah, so they were cool.

Speaker 19:46

Yeah, catch net thing.

Presenter10:04

So they were they were cool, they were energetic. Exactly, they were cool.

Lorraine Kelly10:05

Exactly, they were cool. They listened to cool music. You know, mum was listening to like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Melanie, all these kind of things she was listening to. My mum was always dancing, she was always singing, and it really was a fantastic childhood. The difference is.

Presenter10:21

The background between your parents sound interesting because your mum was from a Catholic family, dad from a Protestant family, and Glasgow quite quite sectarian back then. Yeah, that was

Lorraine Kelly10:26

Do fam

Lorraine Kelly10:29

Yeah, that was a big deal. It was called a mixed marriage. And it seems really strange now when you look back on it, but that was a big deal. There were certain members of the family that wouldn't go to the wedding.

Lorraine Kelly10:37

Just would not approve of it, which is so ridiculous when you think about it.

Presenter10:42

And what about Granny Mac? Because you said she's quite formidable character, but you very fond of her.

Lorraine Kelly10:47

No, I was very fond of her because I wasn't her child, I was her grandchild. She was hard on her children. Yeah, she was hard on her children, especially her daughters. And even though she didn't bring them up because she put them in the convent, we've never quite got to the bottom of that as to why, you know, like our four older children were brought up. They were teenagers during the war, so they all served. But then she had a gap and then she had these four daughters and she didn't bring them up. So it's quite dumb.

Presenter10:50

Bad child.

Presenter10:51

Possibly

Speaker 110:53

Uh

Lorraine Kelly11:14

No, it's a mystery, you know. What was she like?

Presenter11:14

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly11:17

She's one of these people who, very well-educated, self-educated, you know, working-class women who I think felt frustrated. You know, it's a little bit like my dad. My dad should have gone to university, very bright, but the opportunity wasn't there. And I think there was a resentment there, I think. Very complex character. One minute, she could be your best friend in the world, and the next minute she would be calling you from everything. So it was very difficult to know where you stood with her. But from her, all her daughters and her sons have got this amazing love of Shakespeare, poetry, books. You know, because I grew up in a house where there were books everywhere, and that was wonderful because it gave me that lifelong love of books, which is the best thing you can give to your kid. The best thing. Lorraine, it's time to go to the music. Your second choice today. What are we going to hear next? Well, I love, love, love this woman, Dusty Springfield. What an icon. Absolutely amazing. I used to watch her telly shows, and I always thought, why are they putting Dusty in those dresses? She doesn't look happy. My mum had the album, A Girl Called Dusty, and on the front of the album, there was the Dusty that I thought there always should have been. Not the one on the telly. She looks really modern and she's got a denim shirt on and she looks phenomenal. And this album, every single one, it's a classic, but the one that I really liked because it reminds me of my mum and it reminds me of us dancing about and just having fun was Mama Said.

Speaker 312:40

Mama said lovely days like this, there'll be days like this, my mama said. Mama said, Mama said, Mama said lovely days like this, there'll be days like this, my mama said. Mama said, Mama said. I went back, everything was going fine.

Speaker 313:01

And I made a little morning Billy Joe. And then I almost lost my

Presenter13:10

Dusty Springfield and Mama said, Silver Lorraine Kelly, in nineteen seventy three the family moved to East Kilbride, south east of Glasgow. If we'd met you back then at thirteen, what impression would we have had of you, do you think?

Lorraine Kelly13:22

But it

Presenter13:22

It's a bit

Lorraine Kelly13:23

The thwart.

Presenter13:23

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly13:23

Yeah.

Presenter13:24

Uh

Lorraine Kelly13:24

Yeah.

Presenter13:24

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly13:26

Dwee Pow, like into nerdy stuff? Yeah, I was nerdy. I was into, well, my dad got me my first telescope when I was five.

Presenter13:27

Into nerdy stuff?

Lorraine Kelly13:33

And I was into all of that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I actually enjoyed school. I enjoyed it. I did. I loved learning. I was like a little sponge. And you had a house where learning was valued, books were valued. Absolutely. That's the thing. You know, we were so lucky, both Graeme and I, my wee brother, we were so lucky that our parents, they just wanted us to have a really, really education, education, education. Long before Tony Blair. That was my mum's mantra. You know, that was the thing. And you had to do your homework. It's why to this day I can't cook. Because I would come home from school and my mum would do everything. And I would say, you know, can I help? No, absolutely not. You do your homework. You sit and you do your homework. And I'd say, I'm finished. No, we'll do more.

Presenter13:33

All of it is fault.

Presenter13:43

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly14:09

It was all about getting better, doing better than them, if you like. You know, they laid the groundwork for you. And when I say better, I don't mean necessarily more money. It was just more fulfilment, a life that would fulfil you. Because she was equally insistent that I would go out, you know, and have fun. Oh, go to that disco, go there, go there, go and do that, go and do these things. You know, she really was, she really opened the world. And then, also, the best thing I think that ever happened to me was when we were in Bridgeton before I moved to Eastcobride, but in Eastcobride, I joined that library too. The Bridgeton Library, wow, you just walked in the door and there's another world. All these amazing books. Because we had books at home, but obviously, this was on another level. And you have, you know, you've been writing in recent years. You started writing.

Speaker 114:13

If you

Speaker 114:18

Mm-hmm.

Presenter14:53

We started writing.

Lorraine Kelly14:54

Infection

Presenter14:54

Yeah, yeah. Does that take you back to to those years and what you're interested in?

Lorraine Kelly14:54

Yeah, just

Lorraine Kelly14:57

That's something I've always wanted to do. I mean, to be honest with you, I kind of bumbled and stumbled my way into television. What I really wanted to do was write. It was always, always the ambition. I didn't ever think that it would happen. And then I was supposed to go to university.

Lorraine Kelly15:12

I got a place to do a Russian and English because I'd been studying Russian for a couple of years at secondary school and I didn't go'cause I got the job in the Escobride News.

Presenter15:21

And had you been a news junkie previously? Was that part of that whole kind of hinterland at home of the reading and the engagement with the world?

Lorraine Kelly15:26

Oh no.

Lorraine Kelly15:29

I mean I didn't line up my teddy bears and interview them or anything like that. I didn't do anything like that, but I knew that I wanted to be a journalist. I was nosy. Well I would say curious, you know. I always remember going to a lecture with Michael Palin and at the end of the lecture he was talking about curiosity and it absolutely resonated with me. He was giving a lecture about Antarctica which is another obsession of mine. And at the end when he said that about curiosity I just thought he's so right. And kind of that's what I've been doing my whole job. I've been going, you know, my whole life I've been going why why why? Since you brought up Antarctica I do just have to bring in the sidebar that you've got like a whole library of books about Shackleton. Oh I've got every book that there has ever been written about the great man. His book South is by my bedside and I've loved Ernest Shackleton since I was a kid.

Speaker 115:47

Yeah.

Presenter16:06

Because you are

Presenter16:16

It sounds like from what you're saying that you had the kind of imagination and curiosity where nothing was off limits. No, that's true. And you were obviously just encouraged by your parents to pursue whatever you were interested in, whether it was Russian or Shackleton or space travel or

Lorraine Kelly16:22

No, that's true. That's true.

Speaker 116:29

Shackleton or space travel.

Presenter16:31

How did they feel when you turned down the place at university to take up the job on the paper then?

Lorraine Kelly16:35

University

Lorraine Kelly16:38

Education, education, education. And they wanted that photograph on the mantelpiece with the wee funny hat and the scroll under your arm.

Presenter16:38

Yeah.

Presenter16:42

Uh

Speaker 116:42

Bundy arm

Lorraine Kelly16:44

They were very, very disappointed, but they didn't say anything. They just they said, Oh, well, okay, we wish you all the best. We wish you all the best. That's great. If that's what you want to do, that's absolutely fine. And of course it turned out really well, but I didn't no, they didn't know that at the time. Well, I'm sure

Presenter16:57

None of you did. You sound extraordinarily dynamic as a kid. Were you confident, too?

Lorraine Kelly16:58

Boom!

Lorraine Kelly17:03

No, I don't think I was. I think I was putting on that front that I know for a lot of us do. No, I wasn't. I wasn't a confident kid. So, yeah, but I think, I mean, I still don't feel a particularly confident person. Really? I don't know if it's the working class cringe or not, but I do still think, you know, we're very lucky and get invited along to things. And when I got the, of course, for goodness sake, the OBE and the CBE, I would say that to you, and I still can't believe that it actually happened, especially the OBE, because that was a queen.

Lorraine Kelly17:30

And that was in Hollywood in Edinburgh. Wow. And I still feel, you know, I was like, I still feel as if I don't really belong here. You know, I'm kind of somebody's going to tap me on the shoulder and say I'm terribly sorry. It's been a mistake. You have to leave.

Speaker 117:40

In a news.

Lorraine Kelly17:43

You're not good enough, you have to go. And I think that stays with you. It's time for disc number three. What are you taking with you? Well, this woman is extraordinary. She's one of these people who you go to her concerts and you feel as if she's only singing to you, and your whole body just kind of vibrates actually. Because you know, you just live the songs with her. You just live the songs with her. Her name's Horse, and she's become a really good friend. And this one, oh my goodness, me, careful. It's just Horse and her beautiful voice and that end note. I don't know anyone else who could do that justice.

Speaker 318:26

When you're out breached from me when you're out of rule

Presenter18:56

Hoarse and careful. So Lorraine Kelly, tell me a little bit about life as a trainee journalist on the East Kilbride News. What kind of stories were you covering?

Lorraine Kelly19:05

Oh god, everything, everything from the you know the judging the Bonnie Baby competition to reviewing the rep to sitting you know in the council meetings. Oh geez, that was dull. Oh that was dull. That was when the clock went backwards. You know you think to yourself it'll be over soon, it'll be over soon. And you know then it was typewriters with bits of paper and I'm really glad because the first couple, in fact probably about the first two or three years of the School Bride News, it was hot metal rather than you know rather than computers. So you would have to go and put the paper to bed and there was all of that. So I felt you would really were an inky fingered hack. You know, you really were. You're changing the typewriter ribbon and all of that. But it was an amazing, amazing opportunity. I absolutely loved it. It was wonderful.

Speaker 119:35

Okay.

Speaker 119:43

So

Presenter19:44

Yeah.

Presenter19:50

Yeah.

Presenter19:51

In nineteen eighty three you made another move. You joined BBC Scotland as a researcher for a programme called Sixty Minutes. That meant a drop in salary though, so you actually had to take on another job to keep paying your mortgage, which you had by then. You sound very committed. You were working as a waitress in the evenings and then and then

Lorraine Kelly19:52

Don't

Lorraine Kelly20:06

It will be

Lorraine Kelly20:09

Research.

Presenter20:09

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly20:09

Chip.

Presenter20:09

Here in the day

Lorraine Kelly20:10

Yes, the easy thing would have been to state the paper because I loved it. But I just thought if I don't go now, I'm never going to go. And I did want to be a researcher on television and I really did want to be a correspondent. I mean, I applied for every single job at the BBC. I applied for farming correspondent, BBC Aberdeen. I mean, I wouldn't even know one end of a cow from another. But I just thought to myself, because back then you were in front of a board, very, very daunting and intimidating. But it would be the same HR lady. And I thought she's just going to get so bored with me seeing my teachers. Cleaning up every week for every job that's going. Eventually I'll wear them down. Did you? I did, because I got the job as a researcher. And like you say, the money wasn't great, but it really wasn't about that.

Presenter20:45

Alexander.

Presenter20:48

Yeah.

Presenter20:50

And did you?

Presenter20:56

Well, exactly. And, you know, actually, after six months, you sniffed out a pretty good story. It got you your first researcher credit.

Lorraine Kelly21:03

Do you remember what it was? Yeah, of course. This was a chemical company and there was a lot of emissions from this chemical plant. And we were worried, and certainly people had come to the BBC saying that they were worried that the fact that this was affecting not just crops but cattle as well and sheep. And I just seen a tiny wee paragraph in one of the local papers and just went at it like a dog with a bone. And that was eventually, you know, we did a half-hour show on it. The programme is called Focal Point. And that was when I saw my name, you know, researcher up there, I just thought, wow. And your dad must have been thrilled about that as well. Yeah, no, it was a big deal. It was a big deal. And I thought, ah, great, I've arrived. You know, this is the step towards being the person that's actually doing the documentary. So you had the toe in the door at the BBC. Yes. But it did not go wider at the BBC. What happened to the BBC? It didn't. I honestly thought when the big boss took me into his room that he was going to say, right, okay, again, you've worn us down because I always just say, I'll do that, I'll do that, I'll do that. So I thought, here we go, here we go. And he just kind of took his glasses down and looked over them. You know, they were on the bridge of his nose and looked over them and went, nope, it's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. You're never going to be a reporter. Maybe if you take elocution lessons, but actually, no, you're never going to make it telly with that accent. How did you feel? Oh, crushed, absolutely crushed. And really, I just didn't, I didn't know what to do. I just didn't know what to do. And one of these things, you know, when the door closes, a window opens, I found out the next day that they were looking for someone for TVAM for their Scottish office, which is a tiny office, it was really small. It was only two journalists and one had left.

Presenter21:03

Yeah.

Speaker 121:23

Yeah.

Speaker 321:40

Yeah.

Speaker 321:42

I knew I was a

Presenter21:58

Yeah.

Presenter22:00

Uh

Lorraine Kelly22:45

And I picked up the phone and asked to be put through to the boss for schedule. And he was Australian, so to him, I didn't sound working class Scottish, I just sounded Scottish. And I got the job, which was I can believe it. Lorraine, I want to dig into that. But first we've got to make Give them room for the music.

Presenter22:59

You

Lorraine Kelly23:00

Your left

Presenter23:00

Uh

Lorraine Kelly23:00

The f

Presenter23:00

Disc, if you wouldn't mind. What's it gonna be?

Lorraine Kelly23:02

When Auntie Joyce and I, and I call her Auntie Joyce, but she's not my auntie, she's my best friend, but because she's my daughter's sort of ordinary auntie, so she's called Auntie Joyce. When we were in Glasgow, we were, we had a ball, we had an absolute ball, we used to go to all these fantastic nightclubs. The highway there implies some wild times to me. I'm gonna be honest. There were some times where we might have got a little bit rowdy, but what was really silly was when I was working at the BBC and I was working as a waitress and I got a pound an hour, we would then go to Bennett's, which was a gay nightclub in Glasgow, and we spend all our money. And the song that always got us up, always got everybody up on the floor, Rock the Casbah by the Clash.

Speaker 323:53

The shawty don't like it.

Speaker 323:58

Bump has fun.

Speaker 324:00

That's my fire on the profit

Speaker 324:05

But who can stop?

Speaker 324:09

Degenerate the faithful

Speaker 324:12

With that crazy cat bar sound

Presenter24:16

The Clash and Rock the Kazbar.

Presenter24:19

So Lorraine Kelly, TV AM broadcast the ITV franchise for breakfast television in the UK. You're an on screen reporter based in Glasgow and sending stories down to the main office in London, but obviously this is predigital, so how did it work logistically?

Lorraine Kelly24:35

Oh well, it was very strange. But most of the time we would send the rushes in an envelope. I would go to the airport, find a pilot that was like maybe British Airways, British Midland back then used to do it. And I would say to them, is there any way that you can take this with you and somebody will be at the other end to pick it up? I'm not kidding you. Can you imagine doing that now? I know, it's insane because it did look, you know, it was a tape, like a video cassette type tape. I mean, people knew we were doing it. It was, you know, we didn't just sort of turn up randomly. We had a sort of system in place, but if it was a massive story that maybe broke overnight, then obviously we would just feed the rushes down the line. We can do that. But if it was maybe a feature or it was something that maybe wasn't for the next day, we would do it with the pilot.

Presenter24:50

To do it?

Speaker 325:08

Yeah.

Speaker 125:13

Which then

Lorraine Kelly25:25

But I love the fact that, you know, I'd get mail in the office and it would be head of politics. Oh, that'll be me.

Lorraine Kelly25:31

Head of sport, well that's me. Me again, industrial correspondent, that'll be me. That was amazing because, you know, in a big newsroom, women of my age back then would have been, you do the Vox box or you do the funny wee bit at the end or you do the girdly story, whatever that may be. You know, you may be allowed near a big news story. It was an amazing learning curve because you just had to do it.

Presenter25:45

Whatever that may be.

Lorraine Kelly25:52

Uh

Presenter25:53

Lorraine, in july nineteen eighty eight, you covered one of the biggest stories of your career, the Piper Alpha disaster. One hundred and sixty seven men died following a huge explosion on the oil rig, which was based off the coast in the North Sea. How much did you know when you got the initial call?

Presenter26:09

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly26:09

Not a lot. Knew there was something big. And the next day we went up in a helicopter and flew over, and it was still burning at that point. It was still smoking, I should say.

Lorraine Kelly26:17

I don't know how anybody got out of that. I still some people did. You met survivors, I think. We did. We met survivors, and that again was something where I think they would talk to me. You know, if people watched in the morning, they would see me in the morning. So they would kind of say that I'm one of them. They trusted you. Yes, that's actually the word. And that's the word that I think is really important. If somebody said to me, What's the most important thing that you think for your job is essential is trust.

Presenter26:19

Hmm.

Presenter26:20

Yeah.

Speaker 126:29

Yeah.

Presenter26:29

On the more

Speaker 126:29

But

Lorraine Kelly26:43

That was

Presenter26:43

the July nineteen eighty eight, and then in December, you were one of the first reporters on the scene after Pan Am Flight one hundred three exploded over the town of Lockerbie, south west Scotland. I mean that was just a horrific

Lorraine Kelly26:56

Tragedy. Awful. I remember getting the call. I remember it vividly. It was the police officer who phoned me who said, Look, get yourself down here. It must have literally just happened. He said, Get yourself down here. Something is going on. It's really, really bad. Now, at that time, I was going out with Steve, who's now my husband, and we were living together, and he was the cameraman. So the two of us could just go. There was no kind of hanging around. We just went.

Presenter27:13

Hmm.

Presenter27:15

There was no

Presenter27:18

So you arrived as the emergency services were still arrived.

Lorraine Kelly27:19

Yeah, there was still a ring. Yeah, I remember. We got right up to the nose cone. Oh, it's horrific. But do you know what? It's really strange because I have blanked out such a lot of that. Because I think in order to function, you had to. Because there were bodies everywhere, everywhere. It was horrific. You know, people's gardens. It was awful. And I went back a couple of years ago to do a documentary on it and really, it was actually quite difficult to

Lorraine Kelly27:46

Kind of remember a lot of it because I had just cuts a trauma response, isn't it? I think so. I think so because you can't really function. And the thing actually that broke me, I'll be honest with you, was people taking down their Christmas decorations. I know that sounds like a tiny, tiny trivial thing, but that to me just said, Well, they can't, nobody can celebrate Christmas here. And that, I think that really brought it home to me. But my dad came to pick me up, and all the way back to our house in East Bride, where my mum and dad were still living. I just poured it all out. You know, my dad did this thing, of all you won't want to talk about that then. And I just, and that actually, I think, really helped. But then I thought to myself, I've got no right to be traumatised. You know what I mean? I've got no right because I'm just an observer. You know, that was all I was doing. And then I had this weird, added thing, very, very strange and quite difficult to live with, which was that when I was doing all these reports, our boss, Bill Ludford, at the time, was looking at the screen in the newsroom and said, bring that me girl down.

Presenter27:50

Yeah.

Speaker 127:52

So be

Speaker 128:29

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly28:46

Bring that mee girl down and give her a go. That was the moment. Yeah, that was and I got brought down in January because somebody was on holiday. So I got brought down to do the news hour between six and seven. So really bittersweet.

Presenter28:48

Yeah.

Presenter28:52

Does the flow change?

Lorraine Kelly28:56

Very strange. Did that feel guilt with it? Oh, absolutely. Of course it did. Of course it did. It was that thing again of you've got no right to be doing this. I mean eventually you sort of get over that, but it it it does even now looking back and it feels very strange, you know, it feels odd.

Presenter28:58

Don't

Presenter28:59

Oh, absolutely.

Lorraine Kelly29:11

Lorraine, it's time for your fifth choice today. What's next? When I first came to London, I was a wee bit lost. I didn't really know anybody, you know, when I was called down to do the show. And because you were getting up at three in the morning, you couldn't really have a life, you know, you really, it was very strange, it was very, very odd. It was a very odd time. And music got me through. It really did. And one band in particular, I listened to their music over and over and over again. And I still, to this day, if I'm feeling a bit that I need, I don't know, I need a... It's almost like putting a comfort blanket on because I know the song so well. But Hue and Cry and Truth, this is such a great song.

Speaker 329:49

I'll give you truth for impatience. I'll give you truth. Keep you calm. Give you truth to hold the shadows back. Truth to save your heart.

Speaker 330:17

I'll bow down to your wishes.

Presenter30:21

Hue and Cry and Truth. Lorraine Kelly, in January 1990, became the main presenter of Good Morning Britain on TV AM, sitting on the sofa alongside Mike Morris. How did you find making the switch from reporter to presenter? How different were the skill sets?

Lorraine Kelly30:37

Essentially the same because you're getting the story. Although I never ever thought that I would be sitting on a sofa, you know, a pink sofa with big hair. I never thought about that. It wasn't, you know, I can't. Well, you were in the Anorak on the side of the motor. I walk with my hair askew, you know, windswept. That was me. And I wasn't hired because of the way I look, which was great because you grow out of your looks. You know, that's always been something I've actually been very happy about. I remember one exec saying to me, you don't make my trousers twitch. Nice, huh? Wow. Oh, yeah, wow. Oh, yeah, wow. And I was like, well, I'm glad. You know, thanks. I'm glad I don't. Because I'm you. And can you imagine anybody saying that today? When was that then? That would have been probably late 80s, early 90s. Exactly.

Speaker 130:45

Uh

Presenter30:47

Yeah.

Presenter30:50

Yeah.

Presenter31:19

Time slate

Lorraine Kelly31:20

AC says no

Presenter31:20

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly31:20

Yeah.

Presenter31:21

But it's interesting, isn't it? Because even though not hired on that basis, you still get judged on how you look, how you present yourself, all of that. Absolutely. So that was that would have been.

Lorraine Kelly31:27

And yourself.

Lorraine Kelly31:30

Been an adjustment, I'm guessing. I'll tell you what made it easier. Mike Morris made it easier. He was a very kind, very generous, very underrated presenter. And we got to the stage where we could finish each other's sentences. I knew when he was going to do a follow-up question. Obviously, I'm not going to stand on that, I will lean back. And we had this kind of thing where if he asked the first question, it didn't really matter who did what, you know, but if he asked the first question and I wanted to ask the second question, I would just kind of tap him on his leg. And if he leaned back, you know, I could jump in, but if he leaned forward, he'd something else to say. And we were all, you know, it was new and it was exciting and all of that. It was amazing. But it was scary as well. You know, but I had this thing of just, you know, we're all the same. We all go to the toilet. There's no point in being intimidated by anybody. Just get on with it.

Speaker 131:51

Yeah.

Speaker 131:58

I was jumping.

Presenter32:15

But TVAM lost their commercial franchise and GM TV launched in 1993. Now, the following year, you were at the helm of the main breakfast show there alongside Eamon Holmes.

Lorraine Kelly32:17

Base

Presenter32:25

Then you became pregnant with your daughter, Rosie. While you were on maternity leave, you got a call from your boss. How did that go?

Lorraine Kelly32:33

Oh that did not go well. I had Rosie in the June and obviously I'm freelance, you know, just a taxi for hire. So I was coming back in the September, which is no time at all. It's only a couple of months. But I fully expected to be coming back. We had a massive mortgage, you know, we needed to I needed to work. And the boss called me up and just said, Em. And our conversation starts with Em, you think, and he was sort of like harumphing, you know. And then eventually spat it out and said, we don't need you anymore.

Lorraine Kelly33:02

Sorry, we're not renewing your contract. We don't need you anymore.

Presenter33:06

What was that about, do you think? Was it

Lorraine Kelly33:07

I don't know. I've never quite got to the bottom of it. But to be honest with you, all bosses, when they want to make a change in a show like that, they'll change the cushions and change the presenter. And that's the way it is. You know, it's brutal, but that's the reality. And it was a shock. It was very difficult. You know, I took my baby under one arm and my little VHS or my best bets under my other arm and went round every station in the UK looking for work. And then they got back in touch with me, GMTV, and they said, look, we've got sponsorship from Cowingate, I think it was. They want to do two slots every week about babies, but they'll only do it if you come on and do it. So.

Speaker 133:32

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly33:46

Of course the Glaswegian in me wanted to say, I write.

Lorraine Kelly33:51

Exactly. But but, you know what, I got over that and said, thank you very much, I shall do that. And it did well. Because it did so well, in the January, to my great surprise, they gave me my own show. And I honestly do think, I really do think that

Speaker 133:51

So it's

Lorraine Kelly34:09

Being a mother made me so much better at my job. You have so much more empathy, you have so much more understanding, you know, it definitely, definitely made me better.

Presenter34:17

And your dad once said about you, there's a wee bit of steel in Lorraine. There's a hunger and drive as well as ability.

Lorraine Kelly34:24

Did you see that, my dad? Yes. Oh, he's right. He is right. I think he is absolutely right. And I suppose effectively being sacked when I was off.

Presenter34:24

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly34:33

having just given birth and your hormones are all over the place. I've never ever take it for granted. Never, ever, ever. I I think it could all end tomorrow. And that's fine. That's okay because that's what happens. And I'll go and do something else and it will be fine.

Speaker 334:35

See you.

Speaker 134:38

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly34:47

It's time for some more music, Lorraine, your sixth choice today. What have you got for us next, and why are you taking this one to the island? Well, I love this woman, and I remember, you know, back in the 80s, this album was just played all the time, especially in the gay clubs, it was played all the time. And I had a really close set of amazing gay pals who were just like the best. And it's Grace Jones. She is wonderful. And I could have picked so many of her songs, but this one in particular, oh, it's a naughty song. Warm Leatherette.

Speaker 135:21

Yeah.

Speaker 135:35

Yeah.

Speaker 135:37

Need the breaking fast

Speaker 135:39

In Beyond the Past.

Speaker 135:42

Be the break and drive.

Speaker 135:44

In the On the Pass.

Presenter35:50

Grace Jones and Waum Leatheret.

Presenter35:52

Lorraine Kelly, on Wednesday, March 13th, 1996, 16 children and their teacher were killed in a mass shooting at Dunblane Primary School. Many of the children were injured.

Presenter36:04

The following day, you and Eamon Holmes presented your programme live from Dunblane. It must have been an extraordinarily difficult broadcast. How did you prepare for it?

Lorraine Kelly36:15

Gosh, that was a tough one because we had hardly any notes. We just, do you know what? We just talked really like two parents. I was just glad that I didn't know that some of the families were watching that day because I don't know if I would have been able to do it. But, you know, we had a duty that day to let people know what was happening. But also, again, because of the kind of show that we do, we were able to be not emotional. I don't mean that, you know, we weren't mockish in any way, but we could actually somehow try and articulate how people were feeling.

Lorraine Kelly36:47

Sh

Presenter36:47

So later on you met in private one of the mothers who'd lost a child that day.

Presenter36:53

Did you instantly know that you were not going to go in there as a journalist at all, you were just meeting her mother to mother?

Lorraine Kelly37:01

Oh yeah, I mean it was. I got a call to say that because each family had been given a police officer, a sort of liaison officer, to help them. And Pam, Pam Rose, whose daughter Joanna was murdered, she got the police officer to get in touch with me to say that she just wanted to talk to somebody, not for the telly, not for anything like that at all, just as, as you said, mother to mother. And I must admit, it's probably a bit the most nervous I've ever been about going to see someone because I thought I don't know what to say. I really don't know what to say. And

Speaker 137:28

I really don't

Lorraine Kelly37:32

I just basically we sat and we just talked. We talked about she talked about her daughter, I talked about my daughter, but it was it was quite

Lorraine Kelly37:41

It was such an honour, you know, to be asked to do that, to be given the chance to hear their stories, and to see Joanna. Joanna was upstairs and to actually see her. She was in her little Pocahontas nightie and she didn't look as though anything had happened to her.

Lorraine Kelly38:01

Sorry, sorry, that's okay. Sorry, Tim.

Lorraine Kelly38:05

But it was very private.

Lorraine Kelly38:08

And I also remember on the window

Lorraine Kelly38:11

There was Joanna's little palm print was on the window and

Lorraine Kelly38:15

Pam kept that for such a long time. Of course, she did. And she is one of the most amazing, extraordinary women, and her husband Kenny, and all of the families that I've ever met. Their dignity and their grace, especially when they had to fight for the ban against guns. Because I think everybody now looking back, and I know there's a whole generation growing up who are probably not aware of the story. They're aware of the story but not aware of the circumstances and what happened. Everybody just thinks that happened and the government banned guns. And it didn't. All the families had to do this campaign, the snowdrop campaign. And it wasn't like now, where if there's a

Presenter38:43

And there was no data.

Lorraine Kelly38:51

A campaign, or you know, you're urged to support something and you just click on your phone. It wasn't like that. Back then, you had to write a letter, and those families had to get all those letters and take them to Downing Street and try somehow to make something happen. There was a lot of opposition.

Speaker 338:58

Mm-hmm.

Lorraine Kelly39:07

Unbelievably, unbelievably. Then there was a change of government, and when Tony Blair came in, that's when the ban actually happened, but it would never have happened but for those incredible families. And I don't think we should ever forget that. What they did in the midst of their grief, unimaginable grief. You can't, you know, you know, I can't even go there, I can't even imagine it.

Presenter39:26

Good morning.

Lorraine Kelly39:27

They're amazing.

Presenter39:28

It was a story that you returned to years later and made a documentary, you know, with survivors, with families. What does it mean to you to be able to do that?

Lorraine Kelly39:31

Okay.

Presenter39:37

To reconnect with people and revisit those stories that you've been there in. Uh In the whitey of a moment

Lorraine Kelly39:44

Like that. I think it was really important to go back and to remember the campaign and it's trying to find light in the worst possible circumstances. But the Dumbling Centre, because do you remember there was a real outpouring of money was sent and that money has gone into this amazing centre that is at the heart of the community and that's thriving and that is such an important thing as well. You know, there's a symbol there, a symbol of hope, really.

Presenter40:10

Lorraine, let's take a break for some music. Your seventh choice today, what's it going to be?

Lorraine Kelly40:15

Now, I'm choosing this because it is so so very special. This song was out when my daughter was born, so I was hearing it all the time. And I think there's a certain section of people, including Marti Pello himself, who probably got a wee bit fed up with this song. But fast forward 30 years, and here am I standing singing this song with Marti Pello and our fantastic change-in-check choir.

Lorraine Kelly40:40

In the Royal Albert Hall in front of royalty, our producer Helen Addis had breast cancer and she launched a change and check and there we were with Marty Pello who's an angel. He came to us and said can I do this? It's 30 years since Love is All Around. I want to do something positive with it. I mean if you'd said to me that one day I would be on the stage singing to royalty. I'm going to say singing.

Lorraine Kelly41:05

Warbling badly. But what an amazing thing.

Speaker 341:10

Feel it in my finger.

Speaker 341:13

I feel it in my toes

Speaker 341:21

Love is all around me.

Speaker 341:24

And saw the feeling grow

Speaker 341:32

It's written on the web.

Speaker 341:36

It's everywhere I go.

Presenter41:40

Love is all around. Wet, wet, wet.

Presenter41:42

Lorraine Kelly, in 2019 you won your case against the HMRC. They demanded that you pay a £1.2 million tax bill. The case depended on whether you were classed as a freelancer or an ITV employee and the judge concluded that you were a theatrical artist, which meant any payments to an agent would be tax deductible. The judge said that in your work you presented a persona of yourself rather than your real self. How do you look back?

Lorraine Kelly42:09

back at that experience.

Lorraine Kelly42:10

Well, it was horrible and it was really stressful, and it went on and on and on for years. But in the end, they didn't have a case to answer. But I just wish that I hadn't had to go through that because it was not easy fighting the big guys like that. And then I couldn't tell my side of the story because they could have appealed. So, all these headlines were going on about me not paying tax, which wasn't true, but I wasn't allowed to say that, and that absolutely crucified me. It really did. I mean, I was heartbroken, you know, to see things online, and I wanted to respond, but I couldn't. But the one thing I do take from it is that it has helped other people. You know, like my case is now case law, and it has helped other people. I had a brilliant lawyer, which I'm very grateful for.

Speaker 142:37

I mean, I was

Lorraine Kelly42:55

And how do you feel about that idea of you're not playing a persona rather than a person? It's a really difficult one because I am very much myself, if you like, but it's a version of myself. I mean, if I was really myself, I'd get taken off the air. I would, you know, I really would. I mean, I definitely would. So you are, it is a version of yourself, if you like. You can't be totally you. You're switching into a professional person. Exactly. You're a version of you and a pretty sanitized version of you, to be honest. Well, I am anyway. And you have to put your good face on, you know, you have to do that.

Presenter42:58

I know that.

Speaker 143:04

Yeah.

Presenter43:20

Exactly.

Presenter43:30

You know you have to do

Presenter43:32

Loreen, you've been at the top for such a long time, and earlier this year it was announced that I T V would be cutting the show from an hour to thirty minutes, and it would air thirty weeks a year out of fifty two. How did you take that newspaper?

Lorraine Kelly43:46

Personally. Oh, I was so I was disappointed. Of course I was. This is the world that we live in now. Every single person in the media, no matter whether it's TV, radio, print especially, or new media, this is the world we live in. Things have to change. I mean, I have been through so many regime changes in my life. For me, this is just another one, but it's seismic. The thing that really I think has upset me the most is the fact that we have got this great team and obviously that's not going to be in place next year because jobs will go. We're hoping that we can save as many jobs as we can. That's the aim right now. And hopefully I'll be able to hang on to some of these amazing people. That's my aim. But you know what? It's just the world we live in. It's very, very sad. It really is. It's a tough industry. Oh, it's very tough. And it is tougher, actually. In some ways, you would think because of new media and because of social media, all of that, that there would be more opportunity. And in fact, there isn't. Do you worry about that? I mean, especially having coming from, you know, the

Speaker 344:18

Yeah.

Presenter44:31

Yeah.

Presenter44:32

The tough industry

Presenter44:43

Do you worry about that? I mean especially having coming from the story that we've heard today, you and your

Lorraine Kelly44:47

Today you and your

Presenter44:49

Uh

Lorraine Kelly44:49

Alright.

Presenter44:49

Uh

Lorraine Kelly44:49

Yeah.

Presenter44:49

Yeah. Uh as of working class cares.

Lorraine Kelly44:51

I do worry about that and I really worry about working class people not being given the opportunity that I had. We talk about diversity quite rightly, but there's a whole raft of working class people of all colours who are just being all colours, all creeds, all religions who are being left behind. And that all comes down to money because these kids cannot afford to come to London to live in London because it's impossible.

Presenter44:55

Hmm.

Speaker 144:56

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly45:12

For them to do that, therefore, they cannot get the jobs that they absolutely should be allowed to do. You know, this is the thing.

Presenter45:19

As well as the fairness of that, I wonder what the knock-on of that is for us culturally as a country.

Lorraine Kelly45:24

Huge, enormous, because you have to hear these voices, because that's what that's what our country is is made up of. And if you're only going to hear elite opinions, we're never going to get anywhere. Or whoever can shout the loudest on social media, we end up in an appalling state.

Presenter45:39

Uh

Lorraine Kelly45:40

It's almost

Presenter45:40

Almost time to cast you away to the island, Lorraine. What are you expecting to find there? What what kind of i island are you imagining?

Lorraine Kelly45:47

Well, if it's just some sand in a palm tree, I'm going to be bored out of my tiny mind. So I'd want to be able to go for a big walk. Can I make it a sort of reasonably large island? So it's got to be quite a big enough island to explore. And birdies. I want to, you know, bird watch and animal watch and stuff like that. Oh, yeah, I'm sure we can do it. Thank you.

Presenter45:58

Yeah.

Presenter46:03

Yeah, thank you.

Presenter46:05

One more tune before we send you away. Your last track today, Lorraine. What's it gonna be?

Lorraine Kelly46:08

Yeah.

Presenter46:08

Uh Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly46:09

This is a song from a band that I absolutely love. They're a bit like Biffy Clyro in that they sing with a Scottish accent, and I really love that. I love the Biffy and I love the Proclaimers. Now, this song, I was training for the marathon and I was listening to Proclaimers, and when this song came on, I had to sit down.

Speaker 146:19

Uh Um

Presenter46:19

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly46:28

It just got me. It's a story of love, it's a story of a relationship, it's a story from start to finish and it's just so beautiful. And there's a lot more to the proclaimers than, you know, walking a long way. There's a lot more to them. And this one, that's when he told her, is it's one of my favourite tracks of all time.

Speaker 346:49

That's when he told her that he loved her and he'd love her all his life.

Speaker 347:02

That's when he told her when he told her that he loved her and he loved her and he'd love her all his life.

Speaker 147:09

Me b

Speaker 347:16

Light light

Presenter47:19

The Proclaimers. That's when he told her. Solarain Kelly, it's time to cast you away to the islands. I'm going to give you the books to take with you: the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare. Thank you. And you can take one other book. What will it be?

Lorraine Kelly47:32

South by Shackleton. The book that's by my bedside, it's his account of his amazing voyage where he managed to save all of his men's life and

Lorraine Kelly47:42

Just the leadership qualities of the man. So that would be my other book.

Lorraine Kelly47:47

You can also have a luxury item. What do you fancy there? Do you know you can get these digital photo albums? Would I be allowed that if I had solar power on it? Absolutely. Is that okay? And then I can just have photographs of everybody that I love. Obviously, there would be a million photographs of my granddaughter because obviously they've got a million photographs of her. But yes, I would like that to remind me of all the people that I adore.

Speaker 147:54

Yeah.

Speaker 147:57

Yeah.

Presenter48:09

Oh, definitely, you can have that. And finally, which of the eight tracks that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves first?

Lorraine Kelly48:16

If you needed to. I think it would have to be careful by horse because it's such a beautiful, beautiful song and it has such fantastic memories and she's just so wonderful. So that would be my song. Lorraine Kelly, thank you so much for letting us hear your desert island. Discs

Presenter48:31

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly48:31

Yeah.

Lorraine Kelly48:32

Thank you so much.

Presenter48:55

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Lorraine, and I have no doubt she's going to be channeling her inner Shackleton while she's on the island. We've cast away many journalists and presenters over the years, including Sateri Wogan, Christine Amanpour, Lindsay Hilsom, and Clive Myrie. The studio manager for today's programme was Sue Mayo, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylands, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the photographer, Sally Mann. I do hope you'll join us.

Presenter49:34

Our culture can cancel someone in the blink of an eye. Celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers, and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line. In the age of AI generated evidence, lawsuits written in legalese you need to pass the bar to decipher, how are you supposed to separate the fact from the fiction?

Presenter49:53

That's where we come in. I'm Anishka Matanda Dauty and this is Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds. We'll mythbus, debunk, pre-bunk, fact check and get to the truth behind the timeline. There are new episodes every week, so make sure you listen to Fame Under Fire and subscribe on BBC Sounds.