Ronnie Wood

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:48

My castaway this week is the musician and artist Ronnie Wood. For over 40 years, he's brought his skills as a guitarist, a songwriter, and occasionally as a diplomat to one of Rock's greatest bands, The Rolling Stones. His music career goes back even further, however, beginning when he was still in his teens and started a band with his school friends. In 1967, he joined the Jeff Beck group and, a couple of classic albums later, left to form The Faces with his mate, Rod Stewart. As he puts it, back then, two blokes with the same haircut couldn't escape each other for long. He joined The Stones in 1975. His role as Mick and Keith's little brother was a case of art imitating life. He grew up as the youngest of three and his real-life big brothers introduced him to jazz and blues. He followed them to art school too, sparking a lifelong love of painting, a second career which would run in tandem with his work as a musician. He says, number one is learn to laugh at yourself, because if you don't know how to do that, you're in schtuck, mate. Ronnie Wood, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Ronnie Wood1:51

Hi. Nice to be here. Such an honor to be here. Yeah.

Presenter1:54

Thank you for joining us, Ronnie. So listen, let's start with music. There's lots to talk about, but you're a multi-instrumentalist, Ronnie, as well as the guitar. You've taught yourself the drums, trumpets, pedal steel, harmonica, sax, cornet, clarinet, banjo. The list goes on. What is it that keeps you experimenting?

Ronnie Wood2:12

If you haven't got something to aim for, you're in trouble. You know, you've got to.

Ronnie Wood2:19

Keep the creative spirit going. In my book, you've got to keep creating.

Presenter2:23

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood2:23

And putting things into action. But I started on the drums.

Ronnie Wood2:29

My brother Ted used to play the drums and he had his kit underneath the stairs and when my parents were at work

Ronnie Wood2:37

and I was at home either on sit leave or doing a dodge from school, I'd get the drums out and play all afternoon, pack them away before anybody got back. Not that they didn't mind me playing, it's just that they they didn't know that I did this while they were out. Anyway, the neighbours said there was an awful crash and banging coming from the house all afternoon, Mrs. Wood.

Ronnie Wood3:02

And they said, was that you, Ronnie? I said, no, I had nothing to do with it.

Presenter3:05

Uh

Ronnie Wood3:08

Uh

Presenter3:08

You are completely self-taught, so can you read music?

Ronnie Wood3:12

Yeah, I can to a point. And then I gave up and I thought, no, I don't want to know every night I'm playing. It takes the element of um ad lib out of it, you know, and inventiveness, I think.

Presenter3:24

And what about your fellow students? What did they make of your musical experiments over the years? I know Charlie let you have a good go on his drums once. Caught you at it.

Ronnie Wood3:32

Well, he he caught me playing uh on a song called Sleep Tonight and um he tried it when he came in and he said, I can't do it as good as you, Ronnie. You get back on the drums, you know. So I played on that song.

Ronnie Wood3:46

It's pretty good drums I f even if I slap myself.

Presenter3:50

Ronnie, you've been part of some incredible bands, you know, as well as the Stones, obviously the Faces, you know, Jeff Beck group. How do you see your role when you're on stage and you're working with other people in that way?

Ronnie Wood4:01

Uh

Ronnie Wood4:02

I always take pride in helping the main, you know, the head boy, whether it be Rod Stewart or Mick Jagger up the front there. It's nice to make them feel confident by having a powerhouse behind them that's not going to mess up, you know, if you can help it. And you know, there's a lot of humour involved in the music as well. If there's a bum note, we blame the other guy, you know. And there's a lot of friendly camaraderie that goes on.

Presenter4:36

Uh

Ronnie Wood4:36

Uh

Presenter4:36

Tell us about

Ronnie Wood4:36

Disc number one, what have you chosen?

Ronnie Wood4:38

Well, when I was a little boy in grey flannels, about seven, my brothers they had a back room and all of their art school friends would uh come and we'd have a room full of instruments and so it was like uh Sandra's workshop for me in the back room, you know.

Presenter4:56

So, you were quite a bit younger than your brothers, weren't you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, so you're I'm imagining you.

Ronnie Wood5:00

So,

Presenter5:02

So you're kind of peeking through the holes, looking at what's going on with the mm-hmm.

Ronnie Wood5:05

Yeah, well they let me in because they knew that they could see something in me that was a spark, you know. I could play the kazoo or the washboard, my first instrument actually with them.

Ronnie Wood5:16

Anyway, the guitar section was Jim Willis on banjo and Lawrence Scheaff, who is still alive, who's now a professor in America. And he played, note for note, this first choice of mine, which is Big Bill Brunsy, the guitar shuffle. And I would watch him totally glued to his approach and he would draw out the numbers on the strings on a diagram where to put your fingers. And that's how I first started to play the guitar. But anyway, he would play this song, Guitar Shuffle, and it's very earthy. And this man, Brunsy, was just an inspiration.

Presenter6:31

Big Bill Brunzy and Guitar Shuffle. Ronnie Wood, I'm watching your fingers go as you're listening to that. You're kind of you're still playing it now.

Ronnie Wood6:39

Yeah, it's a kind of a background to my life, and I would suggest to any aspiring new guitar player that they get hold of that. And the great thing throughout my whole career is I still don't know that song perfectly myself. You know, I'm still learning. And I love that.

Presenter6:54

Yeah.

Presenter6:55

Absolutely. So, Ronnie, let's go back to the beginning. You were born in 1947 and brought up in the West London suburb of Usley. So, your parents, Archie and Lizzie, they had an interesting background, both born into the canal boat community, what would have been called Bargees, those families going back generations.

Speaker 17:03

Uh

Ronnie Wood7:03

So

Presenter7:15

What did they tell you about growing up themselves and their upbringing?

Ronnie Wood7:20

Well, as you can imagine, it was very hard for them transporting wood and they used to call me Young Timber and my Dad Timbar, come on, Timber. I do remember going on my Dad's boat, being down in the little cabin and and my first experience of condensed milk. That was

Ronnie Wood7:43

Really, something that went hand in hand on going on the boat. And my brothers and I were the first ones to be born on dry land since the 17th century. That's as far back as I could trace them. And I have a boat to this day. I have one called the Grandad Dyer, which is my mum's side of the family, the Dyers. Yeah, it's called the Granddad Dyer, your father's yacht, because if I stepped out of the line, my dad would always say to me, Where do you think you are on your father's yacht?

Speaker 18:07

Because if

Ronnie Wood8:14

And the one down here I have on the Grand Union and Regent's Canal is the Muddy Waters.

Presenter8:19

Oh, fantastic. That can that brings everything together.

Presenter8:22

So your parents were both born on boats, you know, separately? Did the families know each other? Or were they, you know, part of the same circle?

Ronnie Wood8:22

Zah

Ronnie Wood8:29

It's a very tight-knit community on the water.

Presenter8:32

Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Wood8:32

And um they all drank to excess. Everyone did it and everyone smoked to excess. That that's how I grew up among that. And um my dad, he was always in the pub, he was never there, you know. And when he was there, he was fantastic. But

Ronnie Wood8:49

He didn't realize his absence caused so much.

Ronnie Wood8:54

Disruption in

Ronnie Wood8:56

family and in my head, you know.

Speaker 18:59

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood9:01

But uh there's nothing really

Ronnie Wood9:04

bad about it, you know.

Ronnie Wood9:07

And um my dad used to bring this incredible

Ronnie Wood9:11

collection of people at home, like rag and bone men, pig bin man, uh, different walks of life from the pub. My mum didn't really take very kindly to it. She'd come down and and throw them out, you know, because they'd all be stretched over the furniture down in the living room, you know.

Presenter9:30

So your house was the party house at the weekends, was it?

Ronnie Wood9:33

Yeah, well that was down to dad, you know. If I could find him, he was always asleep down in the uh runner beans or down in the cabbage.

Presenter9:40

Look at the vegetable patch outside.

Ronnie Wood9:41

Yeah, in the garden.

Ronnie Wood9:43

Or other people's gardens we used to find them in as well.

Presenter9:48

So you lived in a council house, number eight, Whitehorn Avenue, um the party house at the weekends, and I think it had a crack down the middle of it. Was it in the wall? Your mum had a theory about it.

Ronnie Wood9:57

Right down the center of the house there was a crack.

Ronnie Wood10:02

Because we used to have a piano wedged in the by the front door, uh uh near the stairs into the living room, and um people would come underneath and over the piano to get in that room.

Ronnie Wood10:15

And the more crowded the place got, everyone was singing, you know, everyone would bring a barrel or a keg or something.

Ronnie Wood10:25

There'd be us rocking in the in the back room and Dad playing his harmonica and his different music and telling stories and jokes. He he was a great music hall type man, you know.

Presenter10:35

Yeah.

Presenter10:36

Um what was your mum's theory about the crack in the house? Where did she say it came from?

Ronnie Wood10:41

She's all wrong. I think we just went over the top just a few too many times, you know.

Presenter10:51

Alright, Ronnie, it's time for your second piece of music, disc number two. Tell us what we're going to hear next.

Ronnie Wood10:56

Are you going to hear it? A very inspirational, fantastic track.

Ronnie Wood11:01

By Jimmy Reid. Shame, shame, shame. Art brought that home when it was terribly difficult to get American songs on disc. In fact, I've got a quick story about Jimmy Reid because when I was in Chicago, Buddy Guy, one of my inspirational guitar players, he had a club called Legends, where he still does in Chicago. And I said to him, did you ever meet Jimmy Reid, buddy? And he said, well, I've got a funny story, man. He said, I was in bed one night and they rang up from the club and they said, come down, come down, Jimmy Reed's here. And he went, what? He said, I got out of bed, put my clothes on and I ran out of the house and they said, come in the side door, you know. And he ran there and tripped over at the side of the road. It was bundled, you know, and ran up the stairs. They said, where's Jimmy Reed? He said, the thing you just tripped over, that was Jimmy.

Ronnie Wood11:57

So he was happily oblivious in the garden.

Ronnie Wood12:04

There it is. Same, same, same.

Ronnie Wood12:07

Well I thought I did you baby

Ronnie Wood12:11

Run ain't no fence, no you got me baby Up against this fence and ain't that shame, shame, shame

Ronnie Wood12:24

Shame shame the way you s

Ronnie Wood12:31

Well it's the same

Presenter12:33

Shame, shame, shame. Jimmy Reid, a harmonica player, Ronnie, like like your dad and like you too. You also carry a harmonica.

Ronnie Wood12:41

You also carry a harmonica.

Presenter12:42

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood12:42

Yeah, I'll put one along listen.

Ronnie Wood12:52

God love if you want it, baby.

Ronnie Wood12:55

Kinds of if you want a baton.

Presenter13:03

Uh Uh

Speaker 113:09

Drop it

Ronnie Wood13:10

We can rock all the time.

Ronnie Wood13:13

We can rock all the time.

Ronnie Wood13:17

Yeah.

Presenter13:17

There. Oh, love it, Ronnie. What a treat.

Ronnie Wood13:20

My dad always had one in his top pocket.

Presenter13:22

Well, it's good to keep yourself busy, isn't it? And it sounds like you needed to'cause you were a ball of energy when you were a kid, so I mean, no change there. How did your mum keep an eye on you?

Ronnie Wood13:33

Uh well, the best she could, really.

Ronnie Wood13:36

My brothers would often send me to get a bottle of lemonade or a bottle of beer or something so that they could be alone with their girlfriends. And I'd be I'd pretend I was an Olympic runner, I'd be back in like three minutes. And they'd go, Oh no, he's back already.

Speaker 113:44

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood13:52

But I w yeah, I was a a runner, you know, I ran everywhere. But, you know, that's what we did in them days and just the

Ronnie Wood14:01

What was in the air was excitement, you know. It wasn't football and music and

Speaker 114:05

Yeah.

Presenter14:05

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ronnie Wood14:08

painting and girls, you know, it was so much fun, all this new music coming home as well.

Presenter14:15

And music was a big part of your early life. What were your first memories of it? When did you first become aware of it?

Ronnie Wood14:21

Oh, my brothers were, as I said, eight years and ten years older. Ted, the jazz fanatic, he was a purist, and

Ronnie Wood14:32

Ted played right till the end of his life with a band called Colin Kingwell and Jazz Bandits, and he was also in a band called Temperance Seven.

Ronnie Wood14:44

That there were a bunch of fantastic characters in Cephas Howard and all all people like that in the band, and I remember used to bring them home.

Presenter14:52

And then you had Art, who had a very different outlook, didn't he? His his music taste was quite different.

Ronnie Wood14:57

Yeah, he was R and B and Blues and Artwood had his the Artwoods. And he was also playing with Alexis Corner and Cyril Davis and along John Baldry, all of the early Blues Incorporated. I'd be immediately thrown in with the big boys, you know,'cause I was always the young one.

Presenter15:09

Losing corporate.

Presenter15:15

Yeah, yeah, we're always kind of familiar with the

Ronnie Wood15:16

And I'm still the young one in the stone.

Presenter15:20

And it sounds like, you know, because of them you had a a ready-made set of instruments that that you could learn to play and you made your debut performing in Ted's band when I think you were nine. Tell me about it.

Ronnie Wood15:31

Yeah, the local cinema, the Marlborough, yeah. Between two Tommy Steele films. There was a live band between movies, you know, and uh there was me on the washboard, you know. So it was a skifflebo.

Presenter15:43

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood15:44

That was my first experience of butterflies in the tummy, you know, for the nerves.

Presenter15:51

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood15:52

And once I got over that, I thought, this sounds like a really good job, I'm going to pursue this.

Presenter15:59

So you like that feeling of being in front of an audience?

Presenter16:02

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood16:03

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood16:04

Rod used to say, Open the fridge door and I burst into song, you know.

Presenter16:10

And Art and Ted were the ones who chipped in to buy your first guitar. What do you remember about that?

Ronnie Wood16:16

There was this guy called Daisy Hayes who gave me my first guitar, and I thought he'd given it to me, but he said I got called up to National Service, I've got to have it back and my brothers saved up to get me one on the higher purchase.

Ronnie Wood16:30

My parents were the Garantours, and it was a Rogers guitar, and I played that in The Birds.

Presenter16:36

Did you and your brothers ever play together?

Ronnie Wood16:39

Oh yeah.

Ronnie Wood16:40

We had a band.

Ronnie Wood16:42

Called The Quiet Melon.

Presenter16:45

Why have Melanie?

Ronnie Wood16:45

And yeah, Art said, It's a harmless name, isn't it, Ronnie? He said, Can you imagine a quiet melon? And I said, Yeah, it's a very passive name, isn't it, Art? And he said, I think we'll settle for that.

Ronnie Wood16:58

A bunch of lunatics in this band.

Presenter17:01

How did they feel about you hitting the big time?

Ronnie Wood17:03

Oh, they were so proud of me. My dad used to call me Ronnie Wood of the Ronnie Stones in the pub. He introduced me. So proud. And um, Ted and Art knew that I was flying the flag for the whole family, you know. They were going, If we can't do it, Ronnie's doing it for us.

Presenter17:09

Instrument

Presenter17:22

Let's have some more music from your discs today, Yoshi.

Ronnie Wood17:25

We've gotta have Smokestack Lightning from Howling Wolf.

Presenter17:28

Oh, we do. Tell us about this one.

Ronnie Wood17:30

Well, my brother used to back him up when he came to uh England. He was kind of frightened by him because he was such a massive guy. And uh one time I said to him,

Ronnie Wood17:43

Because he used to like his whiskey. He um picked him up by the scruff of the neck and lifted him off the floor and he said, Get me.

Ronnie Wood17:51

A double whisk.

Ronnie Wood17:53

And At said, Okay, mister Wolf.

Ronnie Wood17:57

Oh, spokes that lightning.

Ronnie Wood18:02

Shut in.

Speaker 218:04

Just like gold!

Ronnie Wood18:05

Uh

Speaker 218:05

But don't you hear me cry?

Speaker 218:12

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood18:12

Woo

Presenter18:28

Howling Wolf and Smokestack Lightning.

Presenter18:31

So your brothers were creative, as we've heard, Ronnie, but I think your mum was too, Lizzie. Um she used to make these crinoline ladies on glass.

Ronnie Wood18:40

Yeah, but she was an amazing crochet and knitter and she was amazing with her hands. So I think that is her contribution to the

Ronnie Wood18:50

draftsmanship and yeah

Presenter18:51

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood18:52

Penmanship

Ronnie Wood18:53

'Cause I used to write for the school as well in italics. I used to do all the uh open days and the uh the awards, you know, at school.

Presenter19:03

So when did the drawing come in? When did he start drawing?

Ronnie Wood19:07

When I was about

Ronnie Wood19:08

Three or four. I mean the earliest memory is about four. Uh because my brothers, you know, during the war they were down in the um air raid shelters with no T V or any entertainment, so they would draw and they became very prolific at it and became draftsmen and uh commercial artists. I need to draw for

Ronnie Wood19:31

The Daily Papers.

Presenter19:32

And your talent as a a young artist was spotted quite soon, wasn't it, at school?

Ronnie Wood19:36

I was a T V star because I was on a show called Sketch Club with Adrian Hill on the BBC.

Ronnie Wood19:44

And it was on every Friday night, and I used to make pictures being shown. And this one from Rodaldwood from Usley. Oh, wow. And I actually won a few times, and he invited me to be a special guest artist in St Albans at his exhibition. So I went there and met him and made the local papers. And it was like, wow, this is a dream. What was your winning picture?

Ronnie Wood20:09

Uh it was my view

Ronnie Wood20:13

of the reaction of a cinema crowd.

Ronnie Wood20:18

Watching a horror film. So from the actual screen, looking out into the audience and and all of the different movements and reactions from the audio.

Presenter20:28

What a fantastic idea. No wonder you won.

Presenter20:30

In nineteen sixty three, then, you followed your artistic interests and went to study art at Ealing College of Art, following in the footsteps of your big brothers. What did your parents think of the three of you going to art school?

Ronnie Wood20:44

Oh, yeah, they were so proud. My mum came along and um she went to the headmaster's office and he said, Oh, you must be the mother of the artist.

Ronnie Wood20:54

And so she was very proud.

Presenter20:56

So Ronnie, it was around this time, 1964, that you went to see a band called The Rolling Stones play at the Richmond Jazz and Blues Festival. What did you think of them?

Ronnie Wood21:06

There was this tent that was rocking like an elephant.

Ronnie Wood21:10

and I got attracted to it and I went in and it was the stones.

Ronnie Wood21:14

And I thought that that's the band for me. I'm going to be in that band. I was the last one out of the tent as well.

Presenter21:19

Even then, how old were you?

Ronnie Wood21:21

About fifteen, sixteen. You know, I think the last song that they played when I went to the live gig was um Bye Bye Johnny.

Ronnie Wood21:30

the Chuck Berry Standard, and the whole audience was singing along with them. I said Bah Bah Bah Bah you know, and it was fantastic. The atmosphere and the tent started rocking again. I don't think it ever stopped, you know.

Presenter21:46

Ronnie, let's go to the music. It's your fourth choice today. I'm dying to hear what you've got for us next. What's this number four?

Ronnie Wood21:51

What's this number for? Can't be on the radio without playing you, Muddy Waters. I want you to listen to this song and think of me in the Jeff Beck group, because we played Attacking Blues, and I was playing bass at the time.

Speaker 122:06

Mm.

Ronnie Wood22:07

Led Zeppelin were also forming and they would come and watch the Jeff Beck group and this song was an important kind of link that was an essence of what we were all trying to say. This kind of feel that Muddy Waters is conveying on this song called You Need Love.

Ronnie Wood22:37

You got yawning and I got funny.

Ronnie Wood22:42

Baby, you look so sweet and cunning.

Ronnie Wood22:48

Baby, way down inside Woman you need love.

Ronnie Wood22:54

Mama Doo Dig Love

Ronnie Wood22:57

You got to have some love.

Presenter23:00

Muddy Waters and You Need Love, key influence on your work, Ronnie Wood, with the Jeff Beck group. So let's talk about that. In nineteen sixty seven, you joined with Jeff and vocalist Rod Stewart. Now you'd met Rod a couple of years before, I think. How did the two of you meet initially?

Speaker 123:06

Uh

Ronnie Wood23:06

Oh the left

Ronnie Wood23:17

We met in uh Wardore Street in a pub called The Intrepid Fox. Anyway, he came in wearing this Coco the Clown suit, you know, and it was it was brown and yellow and all these cubes and checks and it was mad. His hair was rod hair, even more exaggerated.

Ronnie Wood23:38

And he spotted me and came up and he went, Hallo, Face and I went, Hallo, Face Little did we know, a few years later we'd be in the faces together.

Presenter23:47

And what were your relationships like with the other bands back then who were all coming up?

Ronnie Wood23:52

And there was a wonderful

Ronnie Wood23:54

Stream of encouragement going from whichever band it was, whether it was the animals or the yard birds or the fruity things or

Speaker 124:01

So that

Ronnie Wood24:03

Hendrix, I remember when Jimmy first came to, um

Ronnie Wood24:08

To London, he played this place called the Speakeasy in Margaret Street, around the back of Oxford Street there.

Ronnie Wood24:16

We used to sit there and I'd have a pepper steak and Jimmy would come after a gig and he'd say, I think we did all right you know he said but my voice is terrible. I said Jimmy, the way you play guitar, I don't think you should worry about your voice.

Presenter24:31

By nineteen sixty nine, the Jeff Beck Group was over and you and Rod joined Small Faces members Ronnie Lane, Kenny Jones and Ian McLagan and form the Faces.

Ronnie Wood24:35

Yeah.

Presenter24:42

I mean, fantastic band, particularly legendary for your live shows. And watching those back now, you know, you just always look like you're having a blast. Did it feel like that? Was it about that live energy for you?

Ronnie Wood24:51

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood24:54

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood24:55

The song had me a real good time, summed us all up, you know. We used to hand out.

Ronnie Wood25:00

A bit of the medicine that we had, we'd hand out wine or champagne, instead of getting the support band, we'd get all the audience on the same wavelength we were on.

Presenter25:10

Yeah, I've seen f I've seen footage of concerts where the audience are kind of more or less on stage with you, you know, people are coming up and it was all very it seemed very loose, yeah. One big party kind of thing.

Ronnie Wood25:17

Very loose, yeah.

Ronnie Wood25:19

Yeah, the party would continue on stage as well as off, yeah, and back at the hotel.

Presenter25:24

Well, which does bring me to my next question, which was going to be about your reputation for raising hell while you were touring. There was one.

Ronnie Wood25:31

Well we c weren't allowed in any hotels. We used to have to check in as Fleetwood Mac.

Presenter25:38

So you got this is because you got banned by the holiday in. Yeah. So you'd have to think.

Ronnie Wood25:40

Yeah, yeah. So you tough to the whole chain, yeah.

Presenter25:43

So you had to create aliases as other bands so that you could get somewhere to stay. Yeah.

Ronnie Wood25:48

It came to a head in Detroit with Mona, her name was, behind the desk, and um she reported us to the police and everything, just because we made the the hotel room out in the corridor.

Ronnie Wood25:59

We just quietly arranged all the furniture out in the corridor, and the manager came up and he said.

Ronnie Wood26:04

the elevator door opened and there was this room there with all the pictures on the walls, settees and slippers and and he said, It's very nice He said, But it better not be here when I come back and he got back in the elevator.

Ronnie Wood26:17

Yeah.

Presenter26:18

You and Rod were back together at Glastonbury this year performing. I mean, how much has changed when you're on stage together?

Ronnie Wood26:24

Absolutely, nothing has changed. Just that Rod doesn't allow amps on stage anymore. And I went, Hang on, Rod, this is not rock and roll, baby. What's going on?

Ronnie Wood26:35

He said, No, I like to keep a nice clean stage. And I'm going, Oh, all right, Rod. What am I supposed to do? He said, Will you wear these in ears? And I went, Oh, no. So these are the little mod

Presenter26:45

So these are the little monitors, that e-place monitors that you can wait so you can hear yourself.

Ronnie Wood26:46

The EP sponge.

Ronnie Wood26:49

Yeah, oh god, is that?

Presenter26:51

No.

Ronnie Wood26:51

Got into it. It's a nightmare. But the thing is, it came over really well, and he knows what he's doing.

Presenter26:57

Any plans for a faces reunion? I know the two of you are still pretty close.

Ronnie Wood27:00

Yeah, we we would love to do that. We we've got these songs though that we're working on from back in the day, but it's hard to make our times tally. When we do get a chance to get in the studio again, we will finish off these songs. We've got a good body of songs going.

Presenter27:18

Oh, fantastic. Good luck with that.

Presenter27:20

Ronnie, I think we should hear some more music now. Your fifth choice today. What's next?

Ronnie Wood27:25

Now, see, melody has gone through my life. And there's a song from Guys and Dolls called Adelaide, which Frank Sinatra sings. And the song is just so haunting. In fact, my wife Sally played Adelaide at the college. It just hits a very sad

Ronnie Wood27:48

But hopeful note within me. The melody is so beautiful. Adelaide, Adelaide, ever-loving Adelaide is taken a chance on me.

Ronnie Wood28:04

Taken a chance, I'll be respectable and nice.

Ronnie Wood28:09

Give up cards and dice, And go for shoes and rice, O gentlemen.

Ronnie Wood28:16

Fill me out. Do not try to feel me out.

Ronnie Wood28:21

I got no more evening.

Presenter28:23

Adelaide, from the soundtrack to the film Guys and Dolls composed by Frank Lesser and performed by Frank Sinatra.

Presenter28:31

Ronnie Wood, you joined the Rolling Stones in 1975. You were brought in to replace guitarist Mick Taylor. What do you remember about the moment when the offer came?

Ronnie Wood28:40

Yeah, just in the right place at the right time,'cause I was at a Robert Stigwood party. Yeah, I was sitting on this sofa between Mick Jagger and Mick Taylor.

Ronnie Wood28:50

And Mick Taylor leans over to Jagger and says,

Ronnie Wood28:54

I'm leaving the band.

Ronnie Wood28:57

And he goes back and Mick said, Why he said I'm leaving the band?

Ronnie Wood29:02

And Mick Taylor got up and left.

Ronnie Wood29:05

And Victor looked at me and said, Oh my god, what am I going to do? Would you join? And I said,

Ronnie Wood29:12

I thought you'd never ask.

Presenter29:16

There had been a near miss though, years before. You'd been recording with the faces and Mick rang the studio. Who picked the phone up?

Ronnie Wood29:24

Ronnie Lane picked the phone up in the Burmese rehearsal room.

Ronnie Wood29:28

And Jagger was on the phone and he said, Do you think Ronnie would join the band?

Ronnie Wood29:33

And Ronnie Lane said, He's perfectly happy where he is, thank you very much. Five years later I found out he turned me he turned me down for the job. Mind you, probably a blessing in disguise.

Presenter29:46

So that was the point that you were in. And once you were in, you had to learn pretty quickly, I think, something like 200 songs in just a few weeks.

Ronnie Wood29:54

300, yeah, back catalogue. Yeah, we were in Montauk prior to the 75 tour rehearsing. Keith and I had

Ronnie Wood30:03

Didn't go to bed. I think we slept one or two nights, you know, during the three weeks we were there or whatever. And it often turned out that I knew more about the arrangements of the songs than they did, you know, because Keith said, how does this one end? And I go, well, it ends like this, you know. And he goes, how did you know? I said, come on, just get on with it. I know more about these songs than you do. And Keith says, well, just because I wrote them, it doesn't mean I know them.

Presenter30:30

You and Keith were already, you know, good friends and had recorded together for quite some time. And that chemistry between the two of you when you play, was that present from the beginning?

Ronnie Wood30:39

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood30:41

that kind of brotherly um beast of burden guitar weaving way and on and off stage, yeah, it was just a very brotherly um knit between us, you know.

Presenter30:55

And how does it work in terms of, you know, when you're playing? Because it seems almost telepathic in some ways. Like, you know, you've got like the two of you.

Speaker 131:01

Gone.

Presenter31:03

Sometimes one will take a solo, and then the next night onto it'll be the other person. How do you know who's going to do?

Ronnie Wood31:06

To

Ronnie Wood31:10

What? It's an unwritten weaving. The ancient form of weaving, it's called. Yeah.

Presenter31:15

Does it ever get competitive between the two of you?

Ronnie Wood31:18

Yeah, hold the giant.

Presenter31:21

He was the most competitive.

Ronnie Wood31:23

Keith, because he you know, he doesn't like it when I take solos. Much better than him, you know.

Presenter31:28

Yeah, yeah. So that ke that keeps you sharp. That's part of the magic, is it?

Ronnie Wood31:33

Oh yeah, well i we spa all the time, you know.

Presenter31:37

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood31:37

Tell each other to shut up and

Presenter31:41

Ronnie, let's go to the music. Your sixth choice today. What are we going to hear and why?

Ronnie Wood31:46

Mozart is such

Ronnie Wood31:48

An all-encompassing

Ronnie Wood31:51

Genius

Ronnie Wood31:52

And Chuck Berry said to me once, Hey, Ronnie, we ain't doing anything that Mozart hasn't already done, right?

Ronnie Wood32:01

And he has a lot of feeling and a lot of rock and roll in some of his requiems and some of the pieces that he plays. But I chose one that goes back to me

Ronnie Wood32:13

When I

Ronnie Wood32:15

Really, when I lost my first girlfriend at at school and

Ronnie Wood32:20

had to learn immediately about loss, you know. So uh Mozart's piano concerto, number twenty one, was the the name uh of music to a film called Alvira Madigan. I went to see that film with my first wife as well. And uh

Ronnie Wood32:40

I don't know, it was going back to school days.

Presenter32:44

Ronnie, you you you mentioned you you lost your first girlfriend. She was killed in a car accident, I think.

Ronnie Wood32:49

Yeah, on her way to see me in in a show.

Presenter32:52

That must have been so difficult. How how old were you both?

Ronnie Wood32:57

I don't know, I was about fifteen, I suppose.

Presenter32:59

So very young, yeah.

Ronnie Wood33:01

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood33:03

And, um, Stephanie, she was such a lovely girl, and I used to walk her home from school and stuff, hide in the garden when her parents would tell her off, and uh

Ronnie Wood33:13

for being one minute late home. If I took her to the pictures or something, they were terribly strict with her. But, um, she took three of her school friends, three beautiful girls

Ronnie Wood33:26

And they all got wiped out in a mini.

Ronnie Wood33:29

My friends took me down the path, but that's where I really started to

Ronnie Wood33:33

I suppose drown my sorrows.

Ronnie Wood33:37

It took me a long while to to get above the the water, yeah.

Ronnie Wood33:41

The alcohol

Presenter33:43

And this music got you through that?

Ronnie Wood33:45

Yeah.

Presenter34:47

Part of the second movement from Mozart's Piano Concerto No. Twenty One, performed by Geyser Onder from the soundtrack to the film Elvira Madigan.

Presenter34:56

Ronnie Wood, you are often referred to as the peacemaker in the Stones. Tell me how you navigate the complex and occasionally in the past volatile relationship between Mick and Keith.

Ronnie Wood35:09

Uh well, I just don't stand for any messing around keeping this institution going. So if I see a crucial uh point that is going to be more than destructive, uh I I nip it in the bud because they're they've known each other since the sand pit anyway, so.

Presenter35:29

Yes, exactly. And I mean, things have been going smoothly for quite some while now, but there was a time when, you know, the band came close to the precipice. In the 80s, there was quite a serious falling out between Mick and Keith. You're making the album dirty work, and they didn't speak for a long time, didn't perform together for a few years. You got them talking again. How did you do it?

Ronnie Wood35:51

I was speaking to Mick and he was saying, he hates me, you know, like, so I was saying, no, he doesn't.

Ronnie Wood35:59

But I tell you what I'm gonna do. In fifteen minutes the phone's gonna ring and it's gonna be Keith and you're gonna speak.

Ronnie Wood36:07

Would you do that and mix it? Well, yeah, but I don't think you'd

Ronnie Wood36:11

And make that happen.

Ronnie Wood36:12

And I said, Well,

Ronnie Wood36:14

Watch this. Anyway, I rang Keith. I said, You're gonna ring Mick now because I said it's going on too much, too far.

Ronnie Wood36:23

And I want you to speak to him and ring him right now. He said, Well, where is he? I said, Well, he's at this number.

Ronnie Wood36:29

I said, Will you ring him? He said, All right then. So he did, and that was it. And I I said to Mick, ring me back after, you know, and he did, and he said, Wow, we actually.

Ronnie Wood36:38

Patch it up, you know, it's really good.

Presenter36:42

Is that quite a weight of responsibility, you know, being the glue that held the band together? Did you ever feel that?

Ronnie Wood36:50

Yeah?

Presenter36:51

So it's all about putting the band first. So it it almost sounds in a way that you're you're still a fan. You know, you can see the perspective of the fan as well as being part of the band.

Ronnie Wood37:00

Yeah, I mean catastrophic for it to fall apart, which it wouldn't do. I wouldn't allow that.

Presenter37:06

And do they appreciate your diplomacy?

Ronnie Wood37:08

It is a

Ronnie Wood37:09

Yeah, they do.

Presenter37:12

What about when it comes to songwriting? Because of course Mick and Keith are, you know, an incredible creative partnership.

Ronnie Wood37:17

That's another thing I encourage. I only put my songs in if.

Presenter37:19

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood37:22

They've run run out, which they very rarely do. But you know, once in a while when it the pickings are a bit thin, then I'll put my songs in. And we've recorded a few. We have them up our sleeve, you know, they're really good.

Speaker 137:35

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood37:36

The Jagger Richards partnership is one that's worth looking after and preserving and continuing. So that's what I try to do is help its continuance.

Ronnie Wood37:50

You know, since we lost Charlie.

Ronnie Wood37:52

Yes, Steve Jordan has given us a kick, which Charlie uh blessed. So that's another thing that that will keep the band going because we we had uh when we found out Charlie had passed, we we didn't sit around moping for long. We we had a day off and we went Charlie wouldn't like us to

Ronnie Wood38:10

Sit around, you know, grieving. We're gonna get on with and carry the flag and press on. It's something.

Ronnie Wood38:18

It's worth uh

Ronnie Wood38:21

Improving on and uh oiling. We've got to oil the gears and and keep the circus going, you know.

Presenter38:29

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood38:29

The Travelling Circus

Presenter38:30

By the sound of it, that idea of still learning, still innovating, still improvising is a big part of the appeal for all of you.

Ronnie Wood38:34

So it's

Ronnie Wood38:39

Yeah, and that's what the driving force is. We're always raising the bar.

Ronnie Wood38:44

And miraculously.

Ronnie Wood38:46

The ball keeps going up and up.

Ronnie Wood38:49

We just finished a new album, which is very exciting.

Ronnie Wood38:53

And we're at the mixing stage, which brings us back to that.

Presenter38:53

And we're at the mix.

Presenter38:56

You're mixing it now. When are the rest of us gonna get to hear it, Rona?

Ronnie Wood38:59

Well, when it's finished, my dear.

Ronnie Wood39:01

Yeah, um more than halfway there. So I'd say by the end of the year, early next year.

Presenter39:06

Fantastic. Well, we look forward to that. So, tell me about this next piece of music, your seventh choice.

Ronnie Wood39:13

Now, we can't have eight songs without including Chuck Berry. And I suppose.

Ronnie Wood39:21

He's got such a plethora of songs that to get one to speak for the whole style of Chuck Berry, I suppose it will have to be Roland Beethoven because I've just played Mozart, so let's keep the classical theme going. And

Ronnie Wood39:41

Let the music speak for itself because Chuck Berry is one of the cornerstones, him and Bo Diddley.

Ronnie Wood39:49

who I toured with and was very close with Beau and Chuck. I really respect what they did and let's hear Rollova Beethoven.

Speaker 139:59

Well I'ma write a little letter, I'm gonna mail it to my local DJ.

Speaker 140:05

Yet it's a jumpin' little record I want my jockey to play.

Speaker 140:10

Roll up!

Ronnie Wood40:10

I gotta hear it again today.

Ronnie Wood40:15

You know my temperature rising, the two pots blowing a fuse

Speaker 140:21

My heartbeat in rhythm and my soul keep a singing to blue.

Ronnie Wood40:26

I roll over Beethoven and tell Schikowski the news.

Presenter40:29

Uh

Presenter40:30

Chuck Berry, and Rollover Beethoven.

Presenter40:33

Ronnie Wood, you've been very open about your addiction to drugs and alcohol. It went on for a long time and after many stints in rehab, you finally got clean in twenty ten. Why did it work in twenty ten after all those times when it didn't?

Ronnie Wood40:48

Well, I think a lot of the pressure was like from other people and they were going you know, pushing me and it was only when I did it for myself when the penny dropped. And uh, you know, if if you don't love yourself, you can't love anyone else, you know.

Presenter41:05

And you said that, you know, it was a moment of kind of bliss for you, really, to step out of that and to live.

Ronnie Wood41:12

To let go.

Presenter41:13

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood41:14

And have a higher power, whatever it is.

Presenter41:16

What what's yours? What's yours?

Ronnie Wood41:17

I am not the leader of this whole thing. I'm not in charge and my willpower will lead me up the garden path.

Presenter41:25

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood41:25

So my wheelpower's no good, you know. I've just got to hand it over.

Presenter41:29

So what did you hand it over to? What's your higher power?

Ronnie Wood41:32

Music, I suppose. And, um, art, you know, the the things that I'm blessed with and, um

Ronnie Wood41:38

So blessed to be able to do them and to try and strive to get better and better at both.

Presenter41:44

Some people who are going through addiction and are creative, they worry that they won't be able to play or paint or whatever it is when they're sober. How has that been for you?

Ronnie Wood41:57

You know, there's a period of white knuckling, you know, where I needed.

Ronnie Wood42:02

Encouragement, and I didn't know which way to turn, you know. And it takes a while to be able to.

Speaker 142:06

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood42:11

see yourself in the light of getting better, you know, for want of a better phrase, it of um staying on the on the path, you know, it's quite difficult. And and encouragement

Ronnie Wood42:25

And a hand on the shoulder just before going on stage, like from Mick or something, saying, You'll be okay.

Ronnie Wood42:31

to let it go and okay, let's go for it.

Presenter42:34

And I mean it's not the only challenge that you've been through because you've overcome cancer twice in recent years. Keeping you going was your wife Sally, your third wife who you married in 2012, and the two of you have nine-year-old twins. Your older kids also have children of their own. How much have you changed over the years as a father?

Ronnie Wood42:56

We're all still very close and it's fantastic the way that they've all turned out and their their kids have all turned up and my grandchildren. And I'm really blessed with Sally and I'm blessed with Gracie and Alice. They're the most incredible new thing in my life. They're nine now, I can't believe. And now

Ronnie Wood43:19

I'm very happy to be rocking coming up to being an octogenarian soon, so.

Ronnie Wood43:27

Yeah.

Presenter43:28

Fantastic. Still rocking and still looking great. Well, Ronnie, you've got another challenge to take on next because, of course, I'm about to cast you away to the desert island.

Ronnie Wood43:29

It's still

Presenter43:37

How are you in your own company?

Ronnie Wood43:40

Pretty good'cause I'm a Gemini. I'm a really nice bunch of guys, you know.

Presenter43:44

Yeah.

Presenter43:46

And of course you'll have your music to keep you going.

Ronnie Wood43:49

Yeah.

Presenter43:50

Final track to day then, Ronnie. Your last choice, what's it gonna be?

Ronnie Wood43:53

One that made a nice impact and still comes over as brilliant is when Paul McCartney left the Beatles his first solo album with the song called Maybe I'm Amazed, which Ronnie Lane sang along with Rod in the Faces. We covered that song because we liked it.

Ronnie Wood44:11

I'm very close with Paul. We we have lots of dinners together and uh he was best man are you?

Presenter44:16

He was best man at your wedding, wasn't he?

Ronnie Wood44:17

Yeah, him and Rod.

Ronnie Wood44:19

Me and Sally were really honoured about that.

Presenter44:22

And have you guys always been close? I mean, the Beatles and the Stones rivalry, obviously, back in the day, was much talked about. Yeah, I've always been close.

Ronnie Wood44:29

Yeah, I've always been I was always close with uh George. I saw George a lot. He was a lovely man. Ringo, you know, very close.

Ronnie Wood44:39

John I met once in New York with a fantastic time we had. He came and knocked at my door, you know, with Yoko, Hello Ron, I'm John, this is John, you're Ron, this is Yoko, you're Ron, I'm John.

Presenter44:50

You you ended up jamming together, didn't you, you John and Yoko?

Ronnie Wood44:53

We went down to um Atlantic Studios and we played the night away, just singing and playing. It was such a wonderful time.

Presenter45:01

What happened to those tapes?

Ronnie Wood45:03

Good question. I'd love to know what happened.

Presenter45:06

So would I. Where are they?

Ronnie Wood45:07

'Cause that studio was remodeled or rebuilt or something after and the tapes were just lost, I don't know.

Presenter45:14

Yeah

Ronnie Wood45:16

Could be, yeah. Anyway, Paul and I are very close and uh I think uh maybe Maze is very a moving moving soul.

Ronnie Wood45:27

Baby, I'm a waste to where you love me all the time.

Ronnie Wood45:33

Maybe I'm afraid of the way I love you.

Ronnie Wood45:39

Baby, I'm amazed at the way you pulled me out of time.

Ronnie Wood45:44

On me on Lay!

Speaker 245:47

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood45:47

Uh

Speaker 245:48

Maybe I'm amazed at the way I really need

Speaker 245:54

Baby.

Presenter45:56

Maybe I'm amazed. Paul McCartney. So Ronnie Wood, it's time to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take one other book.

Ronnie Wood46:06

BAP

Presenter46:06

B.

Ronnie Wood46:07

The title is Just for Today Daily Meditations for Recovering Addicts.

Ronnie Wood46:13

It tells it like it is, and it's very real and it sets you up for the day ahead. In a way it gives you strength, and uh that's what I'm going to need on the Desert Island.

Presenter46:24

Absolutely. We can give you that.

Ronnie Wood46:24

We can give you a little bit of a message.

Presenter46:26

What about a luxury item? It's got to be for pleasure or sensory stimulation. You can't have anything practical.

Ronnie Wood46:33

Well, I want a huge chest.

Ronnie Wood46:35

Wooden chest.

Presenter46:36

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood46:37

With all my paints in it and canvases, turps.

Ronnie Wood46:42

And pallet knives and batches and glue and

Presenter46:47

The full shebang.

Ronnie Wood46:48

Yeah. I wouldn't take an easel'cause I can make one out there on the desert island.

Presenter46:52

Don't need that. Okay. No easels. Got it. Perfect. It's yours.

Ronnie Wood46:53

Okay.

Ronnie Wood46:56

Yeah.

Presenter46:57

How do you balance art and music? I mean, you know, it must have been a toss-up between taking the guitar and taking your painting materials with you.

Ronnie Wood47:07

Yeah, well the music I carry around. I mean I would take my harmonica, that'll be in my top pocket, right?

Presenter47:14

You can just sneak the harmonica in.

Ronnie Wood47:15

Yeah.

Ronnie Wood47:17

What'd you reckon?

Presenter47:18

Well, because it's you, Ronnie, I'm going to look the other way, obviously, but you know, you're pushing against an open door. I shouldn't really.

Presenter47:25

I'm not going to search your pockets before I cast you away. Put it that way.

Ronnie Wood47:25

Mm-hmm.

Presenter47:28

Since you played a tune for me, we won't we won't discuss that any further.

Presenter47:32

But you then you have to

Ronnie Wood47:32

The other thing I want is a huge fur lined

Ronnie Wood47:36

Kashmir carpet

Presenter47:38

You can't have a carpet and the art materials. It's got to be one or t'other.

Ronnie Wood47:43

Oh, really?

Presenter47:44

Yeah.

Presenter47:45

Especially if I'm letting you sneak the harmonica in.

Ronnie Wood47:48

Oh no, that's in my pocket anyway. You wouldn't even know about that.

Presenter47:51

But I did.

Ronnie Wood47:52

Don't don't count the harmonica and let me have a copy.

Ronnie Wood47:58

Otherwise I'm not getting washed up.

Presenter48:02

Okay, how about this? I give you the art materials.

Ronnie Wood48:06

Yeah.

Presenter48:07

On the condition that the carpet is the subject of your first still life.

Ronnie Wood48:13

Oh, perfect, yeah.

Presenter48:14

Okay, but

Ronnie Wood48:15

It become the magic carpet, and that's what I float away on in my dreams and in reality.

Presenter48:16

I'm not sure if I can do it.

Presenter48:20

Done. We are done. You are officially being cast away. And finally,

Presenter48:26

Ronnie Wood, which track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves first if they got washed away?

Ronnie Wood48:35

Hmm. Gold. Um.

Ronnie Wood48:39

Smokesack Lightning

Presenter48:41

Ronnie Wood, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Ronnie Wood48:45

All right, thank you.

Presenter49:07

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Ronnie. Talk about pushing his luck with that harmonica. We've cast away many musicians and songwriters, including Mark Knopfler, Bruce Springsteen, and Cindy Lauper. Ronnie's fellow Stones, Keith Richards and Charlie Watts, are in our archive too, along with his good friend Paul McCartney. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the makeup artist Mary Greenwell. I do hope you'll join us.

Presenter49:47

How did Bruce Springsteen become the boss, and what did it cost him to get there?

Speaker 249:52

Maybe I was the guy that gets the guitar, I get the car, I get the girl, then it adds up to a big so what?

Speaker 150:01

Yeah.

Presenter50:01

From the makers of the award-winning first season of Legend, join me, Laura Barton, for the story of my favourite artist, Bruce Springsteen.

Presenter50:10

We'll get to know the life beyond the legend to discover how a scrawny, long-haired introvert from small town New Jersey transformed into the iconic rock star figure of his eighties glory.

Speaker 150:21

We're all going, he has muscles now, which was a little hard to take because we were scrawny. Do we have to go get muscles?

Presenter50:28

Legend The Bruce Springsteen story from BBC Radio 4 Listen first on BBC Sounds.