Michael Sheen

Presenter0:00

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:46

My castaway this week is the actor Michael Sheen. He's widely regarded as one of the best actors of his generation. His talent was obvious from the beginning. He left rather early to pursue a burgeoning career on stage and, with a string of acclaimed performances under his belt, moved to Hollywood. Success on the big screen followed, and alongside other high-profile roles, he garnered special praise for his portrayal of real people: Kenneth Williams, Brian Clough, David Frost, and no less than three times, former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This impressive trajectory, however, is only half the story, because while he was in Hollywood, his heart was in his hometown of Port Talbot, South Wales. In 2011, he went back there to work with the local community. He cites the 72-hour play they created, The Passion, featuring a cast of thousands, as his proudest achievement and a major turning point in his life.

Presenter1:37

Reconnected with his community and newly connected with local charities and campaigners, he moved back home with a commitment to use his platform and resources to work on the issues he cares about. This year he also founded a new Welsh National Theatre, of which he is artistic director. The curtain's due to go up on their first performances early in 2026. He says, I've got no control over what people remember once I'm not around. Legacy is for other people. But I can do something about now, using whatever resources I have. Yes, I want to be the best actor I can, but it's also become increasingly meaningful to me that people respond to the other work I do. Michael Sheen, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Michael Sheen2:18

Ah, I'm loving it on this island already.

Presenter2:21

Well it's lovely to have you and Michael despite that busy slate of community projects you're still very busy acting too, speaking towards the end of your run as Nye at the National Theatre in London before the show goes on to Cardiff. You're playing a political titan, an Iron Bevan, father of the NHS. How did you prepare to step into his shoes or should I say, carpet slippers I think to be?

Michael Sheen2:44

Well, just lived my life, really, growing up in South Wales. He is a giant figure. He looms over us all in one way or another. Although, having said that, I've been really surprised during the run of Nye both last year and this year, how many people have said, well, you know, I know his name, but I didn't really know his story. It feels like a really timely moment to be telling his story and the story of the NHS, just as we get to the point really where there's not many people left alive who were of an adult age before the NHS came in. So that kind of living memory of what it was like before and what it could be like again is starting to slip away. So it makes telling this story all the more important.

Presenter3:15

Come on.

Presenter3:20

Many listeners might have seen your TV documentary earlier this year, Michael Sheen's secret million pound giveaway. So this is you using £100,000 of your own money to buy up a million pounds worth of other people's debt, which is sold off at a discounted price by debt acquisition companies to highlight the social impact of these loans and credit. What inspired you to do it?

Michael Sheen3:44

I remember the very first time I saw something around that subject was John Oliver in America in his show, and he did it around medical debt. And obviously, the situation in America is very different. And I remember watching that and thinking, oh, I wonder if I could do something similar back in Wales. I hadn't really looked into things to do with debt and high-cost credit and that kind of stuff. That sort of led to me starting up something called the End High Cost Credit Alliance, trying to sort of work with lots of different groups and organizations around those sort of issues. And, you know, ultimately led to me spending, you know, 10, 15 years or something, you know, looking at these issues and trying to find ways to do it. And I thought it was a really good way of highlighting this sort of absurd idea that you can buy other people's debt and at a much lower rate. And I thought perhaps it would be a good way to get people's attention. And that, in fact, many business models of companies are based around people being in trouble. So they know that's a good idea.

Presenter4:37

So they know that someone will take it someone who's on the edge will take a small loan out and and then they're just going to end up in a situation where they can't pay it back and the interest gets in there.

Michael Sheen4:45

Yeah, and that the whole point is that they can't pay it back so that you keep making interest and people are, you know, signed up to this for ages and then ultimately are juggling multiple debts because you have to take out another one to be able to deal with it. So there's, you know, there's a lot of difficult stuff out there. Ironically, in the documentary, a lot of the people that I actually talked to and interviewed, because I couldn't choose who the people were, they weren't recipients of this. So unofficially, I ended up paying off their debts as well. But that was as a separate thing. But because they had been so influential, you know, they'd helped me so much in it. It just felt terrible that they weren't then getting the benefits of it.

Presenter4:47

It's not like

Presenter4:48

Act so that you

Presenter5:23

Michael, we've got to go to the music, which is of course what it's all about today. I know that you love your music, so I want to hear all about disc number one. What are you taking to the island first and why have you chosen it?

Michael Sheen5:33

Well, the first thing I would want to listen to it's not the first single I bought, but it's the first song that I remember just

Michael Sheen5:42

I don't know, getting to somewhere in me that nothing had ever got to before. From the very first moment you hear this start.

Michael Sheen5:49

It creates an atmosphere immediately, and it sends shivers to me every time I hear it.

Presenter5:55

Do you remember the first time you heard it?

Michael Sheen5:57

Well, it came out in 1980, so I would have been eleven.

Michael Sheen6:01

I mean, I really remember the album sleeve. I've got an image of it in my head sitting on my kitchen table, my mum and dad's kitchen table, and me just looking at it as if it was going to somehow play just by sitting. Not on a record player. I'm not even sure I had a record player at this point. I just bought this album because I loved it so much. I remember the video for it as well, this black and white video, sort of in some Eastern European film noir-ish kind of setup. It was everything that was exotic to me as an 11-year-old in Patalba in my kitchen. This is, of course, The Great Vienna by Ultravox.

Presenter6:11

Play

Speaker 46:46

It's gone over you and I. It means nothing to me

Speaker 46:53

There's much better to be

Presenter7:06

Ultravox and Vienna. So Michael Sheen, you were born in Newport in nineteen sixty nine, but we actually need to go a bit further back than that, because show business is most definitely in your blood. In what is perhaps a first for Desert Island Discs, your great great grandmother Mary was a lion tamer and elephant trainer.

Presenter7:26

Tell me everything about her.

Michael Sheen7:26

It is pretty great to be able to say that. Yes. Nanny Blower.

Speaker 47:27

Yeah.

Michael Sheen7:32

She was known as. There's only one photograph in existence as far as I know. Certainly one that I've seen.

Presenter7:37

I've seen it. It's a splendid image.

Michael Sheen7:39

She talks through it. I think they described people who look like that as a handsome woman.

Michael Sheen7:44

Which essentially means she looks like me in a dress. Not that I'm saying I'm handsome, but like, you know, there's a family resemblance for sure. She she looks formidable. I don't know how she got to this point, but she ended up.

Presenter7:49

There's a family resemblance for sure.

Michael Sheen7:57

working as a lion and elephant tamer, and went on tour with and the legend is that one time with the lions, one of the lions went for her, mauled her, and took off one of her breasts.

Michael Sheen8:10

and the claw of that lion.

Michael Sheen8:13

was kept, and kept in the family, and put on a chain

Presenter8:17

How amazing. And these dramatic genes were passed down to your parents, uh, Myrick and Irene. They were in the Amateur Operatics Society in Ports Alba, where where you uh grew up.

Presenter8:28

Did you and your sister Joanne go and see them when you were little Joanne?

Michael Sheen8:30

Oh yeah, well that's that's one of the main things I can remember about my childhood is going to theaters and watching relatives and people doing these musicals and shows and going backstage. I remember going into the dressing room, you know, and this smell of the makeup and, you know, in retrospect, middle-aged men wearing far too much makeup and really loving it, you know, and bringing it down. Just that smell of the backstage stuff, it was really kind of magical. And my dad...

Presenter8:50

And really loving it, you know.

Presenter8:55

And

Michael Sheen8:57

Loved performing, loved being part of that world. Wasn't the most naturally gifted?

Michael Sheen9:04

of performance, but had total commitment and just loved being a part of it. So for him, it was perfect. He got to go along, meet people every week, socialize, but be in a show and put on the costume and do it.

Presenter9:15

Back.

Michael Sheen9:15

Uh

Presenter9:15

And I mean, I know you lost your dad this year and I'm I'm so sorry, but he sounds like such a a character because he also had this kind of second career in his later years as a Jack Nicholson impersonator.

Michael Sheen9:17

I'm sorry.

Michael Sheen9:26

It was around the time that the first Batman film came out, the Tim Burton one where Jack Nicholson played the Joker. And so there was a lot of publicity about it. And so one day he said to me, Michael, there is a competition in the newspaper. Are you the Joker? Will you take some pictures of me? So I took these photographs of him and we sent it in and he won this competition. So he got a look-alike agent from doing this competition. And then he started working, I mean, literally all around the world. He had the most extraordinary...

Presenter9:29

My jack

Presenter9:52

What were the high like is the highlight reel of his you know his greatest performances as Jack?

Michael Sheen9:52

Like

Michael Sheen9:56

Oh my goodness. Well there was the time when he was asked to go to Germany for the premiere of Batman and that Jack Nicholson was going to be there and he was going to do some sort of you know satellite stuff around it. And then he got there and the organizer came up to him when he got off the plane and said, Jack couldn't do it. He's pulled out. You're going to be Jack.

Speaker 410:07

London.

Presenter10:07

Yeah.

Michael Sheen10:15

So he actually

Michael Sheen10:18

He had to go and do radio interviews. And in the middle of the radio interview, whilst they were playing. That was his American accent. I mean, terrible. Terrible.

Speaker 410:23

How

Presenter10:23

This is American accent.

Michael Sheen10:27

He sort of died man, he just sort of made noises The interviewer it whilst a m uh a record was on leaned over and went, You are not Jack Nicholson, are you? And my dad, without a moment's hesitation, he had a playing card seller taped to his the palm of his hand that was a Joker, and then written on it was Myrick Sheen. And he just showed him and he went, Meh, Myrick Sheen, even better than the real thing.

Michael Sheen10:57

I mean, the if I'm allowed to say this on this desert, the balls of the man. Incredible. There was another one. He got invited to Leicester Square.

Michael Sheen11:07

for the premiere of a Jack Nixon film, Anger Management.

Speaker 411:10

Mm-hmm.

Michael Sheen11:12

And the idea was: this production company got in touch and they said, right, Jack Nixon would be walking up the red carpet. We want you to step out.

Michael Sheen11:20

You know, and we get a shot of Jack Nicholson meeting his doppelganger on the and my dad was telling me about this, that he'd been asked to do this. And he said, I'm not sure if I'm going to do it, Michael. What do you think? I said, I don't know, Dad.

Michael Sheen11:34

Well, I love to think about it.

Michael Sheen11:36

So the following week, I called him up again. I said, Have you decided what you're going to do, Dad? He said, Yes, I'm not going to do it. It's Jack's night.

Michael Sheen11:44

Which was incredibly magnanimous of him, wasn't it?

Michael Sheen11:50

I mean, his car, he had his own number plate, Jack N1, on his car. But then when he stopped doing it, he then had another career as an after-dinner speaker, My Life as Jack, telling stories, because there were so many stories.

Presenter12:01

Telling stories.

Presenter12:03

How different was all that from what he did for a day job?

Michael Sheen12:06

He started off he got his apprenticeship in the steelworks in Petalbutt, and then eventually he was the kind of union representative and then he got the opportunity to move into middle management, which was a big turning point in our family, because that's what then led him to getting a job in Newport, which is why I was born in Newport rather than Patalbot. So he started moving around for work.

Presenter12:15

Yeah.

Michael Sheen12:25

And so he worked in essentially what I think is now called HR. It used to be called personnel.

Presenter12:31

It's time for some more music, Michael. Your second choice today. What's next and why?

Michael Sheen12:35

When I was choosing what I would bring to the desert island, even though there's stuff that I'm maybe more into now, but I drifted towards the things that have just stayed around, that have been the ballast for me in the shipwreck of life. And this is one of those things. So it's called The Ecstasy of Gold by Morricone, and it's from the film The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. It's the build of it is so extraordinary. It just sort of builds and builds and builds and then becomes this kind of romantic, dramatic, over-the-top kind of piece of music. And again, it gets me every time. Every time I listen to it, it does the job. And it's so evocative.

Presenter13:44

The Ecstasy of Gold, composed by Engnio Morricone.

Presenter13:48

So, Michael Sheen, we've heard about your wonderful dad. So, I want to hear about your mum now, Irene. Did she have a chance to be creative like he did?

Michael Sheen13:52

Now I

Michael Sheen13:56

She enjoyed writing poetry.

Michael Sheen13:59

And she liked to read. I've got you know, lovely memories of Saturday afternoons when I was a kid and watching films on BBC Two on a Saturday afternoon. And my dad was such a big character and my mum was a sort of you know, they were a perfect compliment w to each other. They met when my mum was like fourteen or something.

Speaker 414:14

They may

Speaker 414:16

So together their whole lives.

Michael Sheen14:17

So together whole lives. And so, you know, it is just you know, it's only a few months since my dad died and it really hit me to realize that my mum and dad had spent so long together, you know, and had a whole lifetime together. It's really hard to get your head around what it must be like to then that person is just not there anymore. One day they are and one day they're gone.

Speaker 414:22

Mm.

Presenter14:32

Mm-hmm.

Presenter14:34

So as you mentioned, you were born in Newport, but your family moved back to their hometown, Portalbott, when you were eight. Now as a place, it just has this extraordinary acting pedigree. There's Richard Burton, Anthony Hopkins and now you. How did growing up there shape you as a person and as a performer?

Michael Sheen14:53

As I've got older, I've realized how much it shaped me. You know, I mean, at the time.

Michael Sheen14:59

I mean, I just took it for granted, or I just assumed that everyone had the same experience. You know, it wasn't until I left Patalbot and went to London to go to drama school, and I heard other people's experiences and the sort of places they came from and the sort of upbringings they'd had, and I realized how different it was. And that's when I started to get a sense of where I came from. You know, I didn't even realize I was Welsh until I didn't live in Wales because I just assumed everywhere was Wales. I mean, I'd heard of other places, but I didn't really believe they existed. This year is the centenary of Richard Burton's birth, so there's a lot of celebrations going on back at home, and I'm sort of involved in a few things. But to grow up in an area where you want to do something like acting in that area, which you know, it was industrial, it was quite rough at times, it was quite, you know, a dangerous place growing up. It felt like a dangerous place growing up. It felt like there was sort of violence on street corners everywhere. Not the sort of place that you'd expect people to feel warmly about someone who says, I want to be an actor. But if you come from where Richard Burton came from, and Anthony Hopkins, obviously, people sort of saw it as a noble profession. Oh, right, yes, you're going to be another Burton. You felt very supported in that, you know. So, the combination of that, and then also, I, and again, this is something that I've become more and more aware of how fortunate I was. There was this youth arts infrastructure in the area, mainly because of one man, a man called Godfrey Evans, who set up a sort of youth theatre, a youth orchestra. This was the Western Wescamorgan Youth Theatre. This was the Wescomorgan Youth Theatre Company that I came through. Russell T. Davis came through, many, many people came through. The youth dance company, Catherine Zeda-Jones, came through. You know, you look at all these different things that got set up. They were all funded by the local education department, and it just had a massive effect on the youth of that area. You know, it created so many opportunities.

Speaker 415:48

Fights and

Presenter15:48

Violence on the street

Presenter16:08

Mm.

Presenter16:24

So is this the the Westland Morgan youth?

Presenter16:45

There's a bit of a slide in doors moment though, you know, back in your teenage years, Michael, because acting wasn't your only passion. You had been obsessed with football and really r quite talented. You were scouted to play for Arsenal youth.

Michael Sheen16:54

Mm-hmm.

Presenter16:58

How did you end up, you know, taking the acting path rather than the football?

Michael Sheen17:03

I've always been obsessive. And looking back, my first big obsession was football. You know, I didn't just play football. I absolutely lived and breathed it. Every spare moment that I could, I'd be kicking a football run, even inside the house, which got me into a lot of trouble. I was probably at my height at about 12, which is when I got sort of spotted for Arsenal. And I couldn't go to London because, you know, my mum and dad were working in Wales and I was only 12. And so my mum and dad said, well, look, you know, if anyone's still interested in you to play football when you're a bit older, when you're 15 or something, then maybe. But I feel like I'd sort of peaked at that point. And my interest started then going into, I was doing school plays and I found something that I could be equally obsessed by and that sort of used up every single part of me. I remember playing football.

Speaker 417:43

Yeah.

Michael Sheen17:52

And I'd be on the pitch and I used to be adding up the numbers on the back of everyone's football tops. You know, you've got your number on the back. And I realized it's because there was a part of my brain that just wasn't getting used somehow. It was just, so I was filling it up somehow. And I think when acting came along, I realized, oh, this uses every single bit of me. And so the obsession just sort of moved that way then.

Presenter18:12

And so the

Presenter18:15

It's time to go to the music, Michael, your third choice today. What's next for us?

Michael Sheen18:19

So this is another piece of music that has been with me for a long time, not quite as long as Vienna, but this is by the group TalkTalk.

Michael Sheen18:27

And part of what I love about this, not only the music itself, but also the sort of story of what happened, where you got a band like Talk Talk who became, you know, big in the 80s. And when they first had their big sort of hit singles, Life's What You Make It, and all that kind of stuff, you sort of felt like, all right, well, this is really good, but I sort of know what they are. And then where they went.

Michael Sheen18:47

As you get towards the end of the 80s, Mark Hollis, who was the kind of, I guess, the key figure in Talk Talk, he just took what they were doing somewhere else and to what appeared to be a very non-commercial place. I'm sure the record label were like, what is this? Where's the single? I mean, it's an extraordinary piece of music. Spirit of Eden, which is the album that this piece is from. And this is one of my favorite moments in it, which is a track called Desire.

Speaker 419:31

Just control

Presenter19:38

Talk, talk and desire. So Michael, your school put you forward for Oxford. You were bright, but you decided that it wasn't for you. You were absolutely determined to go to drama school, but in order to get the savings together that would allow you to do that, you spent a year flipping burgers on the A48 at a drive-in. What was that year waiting, saving up, waiting for your life to start like?

Michael Sheen20:03

I was sort of very slow on the uptake, I think, about what was going on inside me, if you see what I mean, in that I think I hadn't quite realized that I wanted to be an actor, even though I, inside, I did want to be an actor. It hadn't quite connected with my head somehow. And so I was having interviews at universities. I was going to do English or English and drama. I remember that moment on the train, I think, coming back from wherever it was, and that sort of realization of, oh, no, I can't do both. I'm only going to get a grant to do one of these things. And so I have to make a choice. And of course, I'm going to choose going to drama school because I'm going to be an actor. And yet that hadn't really crystallized before then. So I had a year to wait before I could audition for drama schools. And that's when I worked in Burgermaster. And I mean, I did a few other jobs as well. I remember finding myself at six o'clock in the morning in full like, you know, souesters, you know, oilskins going down the side of the motorway, picking up litter whilst it's pouring with rain and cars are going past and splashing me. And I thought, this is not the life for me.

Presenter20:34

Yeah.

Presenter21:06

Yeah.

Michael Sheen21:06

I need to go on the stage. Naibevan described himself as a projectile hurled out of the valleys when he and that's very much what I was like. I was ready for it.

Presenter21:14

Yeah.

Presenter21:17

Okay, so so you were hurled directly to Rada. I think every drama school that you applied to accepted you and Radha, you know, were they were the last to say yes, and off you went. Late eighties, moved to London.

Michael Sheen21:20

Yeah.

Presenter21:29

How did you find that sort of cultural metia? You know, there you are, the creme de la creme of the acting world. Did it feel like.

Michael Sheen21:35

Yeah.

Presenter21:35

You fit in?

Michael Sheen21:36

I didn't really know what to expect. Thinking back, I think I remember feeling like, well, I'm going to get there and everyone's going to be amazing, you know, and they're all going to be quoting Shakespeare left, right, and center. And I'm going to be, you know, I'm really going to have to try my best. Yeah. And then I got there and.

Presenter21:43

You don't want to.

Michael Sheen21:54

And within weeks, I think, I got called into the principal's office and he said one of the third years has had to drop out of one of the productions. He was playing a Welsh character.

Michael Sheen22:06

I want you to do it. Will you do it?

Michael Sheen22:08

I was like, okay. And so I find myself in this third year of production, and they were in the tech, I think. I was literally days before the phone. So I was sort of saving the day without me quite realizing it. And

Michael Sheen22:21

doing very well. And and then by the time we got to the second year, which is when you do your first public you'd be doing classes up until that point and rehearsing things, but no one would see it. And in the second year, you would do your first public performance. And by that point, I was full of myself.

Michael Sheen22:35

I thought I was the bees and ease. The first public performance was Oedipus. And I thought, well, of course, I'll be cast as Oedipus. And indeed, I was cast as Oedipus. And we got, you know, ready to do the performances. And I thought, this is it. This is the moment where the world wakes up to the brilliance of me. And we did the performance. And of course, it didn't wake up to the brilliance of me. Nothing changed. In fact, I couldn't quite understand why nobody was praising me to the skies. And I sort of had a bit of a breakdown. I couldn't work out why.

Presenter22:53

For the brilliance of me,

Michael Sheen23:05

It wasn't coming through, like why it wasn't working in the way that I thought it would. And I just sort of fell apart.

Presenter23:12

You took a bit of time out of school.

Michael Sheen23:13

Yeah, I had to, I sort of left drama school for a bit and I just sort of stayed at home in a funk. And then eventually, I asked if I could come in on a Saturday morning. The head of acting at Radha did sort of classes for professional actors on a Saturday morning. And then when I went to watch these classes, I started to see, oh, there's another way of doing things which is about being open to what's going on around you and responding, which was much scarier. So I sort of built, yeah, built everything up from there again and sort of never looked back.

Presenter23:44

And ultimately, you know, your your time there was so successful that you ended up leaving early before graduation because you'd got a role opposite Vanessa Redgrave in the West End.

Michael Sheen23:52

That's right, yeah. In a play called When She Danced. I was one day I was doing a you know a movement class.

Michael Sheen23:58

Wandering around a room pretending to be a nose?

Michael Sheen24:02

And then the next day I was doing a read-through.

Presenter24:03

I would like to see that as well, to be fair.

Michael Sheen24:05

Oh, my nose is very well regarded.

Presenter24:08

My bet.

Michael Sheen24:08

Yeah, and then the next day I was there doing, you know, rehearsing with Vanessa Redgrave. It was extraordinary. It was a great break to have right at the beginning of my career. And it meant that I sort of almost immediately had choice, which is, you know, that's the most precious thing as an actor.

Presenter24:22

We better have some more music, Michael. Your fourth choice today. What's next for us and why?

Michael Sheen24:27

This is probably one of the darkest songs ever written. So this is The Rolling Stones. It's my favorite Rolling Stones song. Give me shelter. It just is drenched in darkness. I think it was written in the year I was born, around 1969. The Vietnam War is going on. It's about war and violence. But they clearly, you know, with Altamont, what was happening and people talking about the end of the 60s and something much darker and violent. And this song seems to just be dripping in it.

Presenter25:24

The Rolling Stones and Give Me Shelter.

Presenter25:30

Michael Sheen, the 90s was a creatively successful decade for you. The critics loved your work, so did the public. You were described as the most exciting young actor of your generation. And a string of roles in Shakespeare, Chekhov and Pinter were followed by your performance as Mozart in Sir Peter Hall's production of Amadeus. That made you a Broadway star by the time you were 30. It's all a long way from the West Blamorgan Youth Theatre. Did you feel on top of the world once you got there?

Michael Sheen25:58

That was an amazing time. I was kind of playing all the parts that I'd ever wanted to play. You know, I remember when I was in school, really, still doing my A-levels, I think, and I was doing A-level drama. I remember reading a lot of plays to work out what I was going to do as my, you know, the practical bit where you do speeches from something or a scene. I remember reading a bunch of plays and thinking, oh, I'd like to do these plays. And it was, you know, The Seagull, Hamlet, Piaguint, Caligula, you know, all these different plays. And

Michael Sheen26:27

I did them all in the nineties. That was when I was very busy.

Presenter26:30

In nineteen ninety nine, you became father to Lily with your then partner Kate Beckinsale and you relocated to LA. Many artists dream of breaking America. Did you?

Michael Sheen26:42

Well, it was a very strange period of time after that because I was kind of getting to do sort of whatever I wanted to do in theatre at that point back home and loving it. You know, I remember people, and you hear this so much, you know, that when you go for meetings and people, you know, say, oh my God, you're amazing, and we're going to put you in this and do this, and then nothing happens. There was a lot of that. There was an innate sort of respect for theater, I suppose, but ultimately it was meaningless. So I found myself ultimately in LA because myself and Kate split up, but I lived there because Lily was, you know, growing up there. So I find myself in LA kind of doing nothing. I would sit in diners reading Stephen King books, essentially, and thinking, sort of thinking about what I could be doing back at home and finding myself sort of going up and doing auditions for, you know, Cough and a Spit in the back of an Alien versus Predator movie or something and not getting it. And feeling quite demoralized, yeah. And it sort of felt like it felt like that went on for a long time. I went to go and see a player, I remember, when I was back in London for a little bit. And whilst I was there, a lady came up to me who I'd never met before.

Presenter27:40

Is it demoralizing?

Michael Sheen27:53

In the interval, and she said, I'm working on a love story about Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. I'm casting it, and I think you should play Tony Blair.

Michael Sheen28:03

And I just thought she was a mad woman. Like, what are you talking about?

Presenter28:06

So this is the deal.

Michael Sheen28:07

And this was the deal. I was committed to doing a play, and I said, Well, I can't do it because I'm doing this play.

Michael Sheen28:13

And everyone was like, Well, you need to not do that play, you know, you know. And I was like, I can't. And I've this has happened a few times in my life where I've gone, I can see that I need to go and do this other thing, but I've said I'm going to do this, and I will not. I just can't go back on my word. Like, if I've said it, I don't want to let people down.

Michael Sheen28:29

We managed to work it out for me to do the play and playing Caligula at the Don Mar at night and filming the deal in the day. And I would film and then someone would run onto the set and say, Right, you've got to go now. And I would run off and I would wet my hair so that it wasn't blair hair anymore, put a helmet on, get on the back of a motorbike where someone would then ride me across London to the theater where I would get off and by the time I took the helmet off my hair had gone all curly again and then go into the theater and play Caligula and then do and then get up the next morning and do that over and over and over again.

Presenter29:00

You must have been exhausted.

Michael Sheen29:01

I was absolutely exhausted, but I have a really strong memory of being on the back of the motorbike.

Michael Sheen29:08

Whizzing through central London, going past Rada.

Michael Sheen29:12

And just thinking, if someone had come up to me when I was at Radha and said, One day you will be playing Tony Blair in a drama for Stephen Frees in the day and going and playing Caligula at the Dolmar Theatre at night I mean, you can't imagine anything better. I remember thinking, Being tired is a very small price to play.

Presenter29:30

Let's go to the music here. This is your fifth choice today. Tell us what's next, Michael. I think this is quite a special band to you. Yeah.

Michael Sheen29:36

Yeah, so this is the Manic Street Preachers. And I feel very fortunate that over the years I've sort of got to know particularly James Dean Bradfield and we've worked together on different things and they came and were part of the passion when I did that. And I really cherish my relationship with them. But ultimately, I'm just a fan. It's a song called Ready for Drowning. And it's a song that you can just listen to. But once you start scratching at what it's about, what are they referring to? It takes you into a world of Welsh history and politics and that is still reverberating today. It's about or inspired by something that happened in the mid-60s where in the Truarian Valley, there was a rural community called Capel Kellyn. And that valley was flooded in order to create a reservoir to provide water for Liverpool. And this community in Capelkellin, who were one of the only Welsh language speaking communities in that area at the time, were forced out. I mean, literally, their village was just underwater.

Speaker 430:43

So what are we going?

Speaker 430:48

Ever dry

Speaker 430:55

So where we got win

Speaker 430:58

We are not.

Speaker 431:00

Good drive.

Presenter31:07

The Manic Street Preachers and Ready for Drowning. So, Michael, your first performance as Tony Blair led to you playing quite a wide range of real-life figures: Brian Clough, Kenneth Williams, David Frost. You've talked about finding a point of connection with those characters and said that in some ways you're always playing yourself, even when you're giving a very convincing performance as someone we feel we already know. How does that work?

Michael Sheen31:27

The

Michael Sheen31:34

I suppose people tend to assume that I was one of those kids who was, you know, always impersonating teachers and other friends and stuff. And I was not. I could not do that. In a way, it's good that I wasn't very good at impersonations because it made me go, well, I can't do an impersonation of this person, so I'm going to have to do something else. So it made me focus on the kind of inner life of the person and really trying to research them and work out why they sounded the way they did, why they moved the way they did, all that kind of stuff. And because, of course, it's a real person, there's usually lots of footage or stuff you can do the research on, which, of course, you can't do with a fictional character because they don't exist. And slowly, I sort of discovered that I kind of could do.

Presenter32:10

Yeah.

Michael Sheen32:17

The voice and that kind of thing. But I knew that in the process of it, that had to be the last bit that fit into place. If I focused on that too soon, it didn't work somehow. I mean, I always liken it to, you know, there's those fantastic things that you can watch, like behind the music, and there's someone sitting behind a mixing desk going, Hi, welcome to Behind the Music. And there's all those faders and dimmers on that massive mixing desk. Well, I sort of see me as being like that. That when I play a character, you know, I look at that mixing desk, and all those dimmers and faders are at certain levels, and that represents me. And then I have to change those dimmers and faders to be who the person is. And I'll experiment. I remix myself. Exactly. I remix myself. That's a really good way of describing it. I basically do mashups. I do remixes. You know, when I'm researching these people and I find out about their life and I find out what shaped them and what matters to them, I'm sort of looking for the points of connection with myself. And so that then I can go, oh, well, all right, on my mixing desk for me, you know, my, you know, whatever particular quality it is, is at four, but in Kenneth Williams, it's at eight. But I have to use the bit in me. I just exaggerate it or change it or make it more extreme or bring it down. So ultimately, yes, when I'm playing these characters, hopefully I do enough to convince people that I'm being them. But what I'm using as the raw material is me.

Presenter32:55

So remix yourself.

Presenter33:38

Michael, work was going great, guns. And you know, we could have filled a whole episode of Desert Island Discs just talking about the wonderful acting roles that you've done. But there was another turning point that began a new chapter of your life that you're still living and writing. And that began in 2011 when you created and starred in a National Theatre Wales production called The Passion, a secular passion play staged over 72 hours in your hometown with a cast of thousands working with ordinary people. And you've described it as your proudest achievement. It sounds like a huge undertaking. Tell us a little bit about how you got it off the ground.

Michael Sheen34:14

Well, it was absolute madness, is what it was. I sort of look back on it now and can't believe that it actually happened, but I'm very glad that it did. It was like the entire town was involved in it. Thousands and thousands of people. We'd made this decision that it was going to be one performance that lasted non-stop for 72 hours, taking place all over the town. And people could come to like the official episodes of it. And then, in between those official episodes, there would be other stuff that you could find. So, it was a sort of very interactive, immersive experience. So, when it first started, the very first thing that happened was as the sun came up on the Good Friday morning down at the beach. And I remember lying in these sand dunes waiting to make my entrance. We'd sort of spread a rumor that might be something happening at sunrise at the beach, and that was it. And so we didn't know if anyone would be there. And I remember lying in these dunes and hearing a walkie-talkie going, Okay, Michael, Q, Michael. And I get up and I walk down towards the beach. There's about maybe like, I don't know, 100 people, maybe. And I did the first thing, which was walking into the sea and all this stuff happening. So we went from 100 people that morning at sunrise.

Michael Sheen35:21

To them by the time we got to Sunday night, that was Friday morning, Sunday night, being crucified on the roundabout at Brambon Beach. And it depends on who you ask, but anywhere between 12,000 to 20,000 people are there. And it's just grown over the weekend because it was boiling hot. It did not rain. The weather was unbelievable. And it was starting to be reported on the radio, not just locally, like. They're reporting on it in China and Australia. And, you know, more and more people were coming to the town. And it ended up being one of the most extraordinary, I mean, probably the most extraordinary experience of my life. And I mean, it became a celebration of community. That's what it was, really. It led to me ultimately deciding to move back to Wales and to use my career as the engine for being able to do the other stuff, to support the other groups and just to take that further rather than just being a photo opportunity. Because, you know, you're always asked, will you come and have a photograph? Because then that will help support. And I was like, well, yes, but I want to do more. And whilst I've got the opportunity to do it and I've got the resources to do it, I want to do as much as I possibly can because ultimately, you know, one day that opportunity won't be there anymore. And I will really regret it if I didn't make the most of it.

Presenter36:17

Yeah.

Presenter36:36

So, how much of your personal wealth have you given away at this point?

Michael Sheen36:40

I don't know. I mean, I have no idea. You know, I don't keep the records of it, but

Michael Sheen36:45

I mean, it's, you know.

Michael Sheen36:47

Aye, millions.

Michael Sheen36:49

I only need a certain amount, you know, and and as long as there's enough coming in and out to keep us going and, you know, I've got three kids and I've got people depending on me, so I you know, I'm not not saying I I I can't I haven't got enough to be able to, you know, make sure that they're all right. But, you know, beyond that point. As long as there's money coming in, and I know that I can work, then I've sort of found a way to make that work for myself. And so it just goes out. So I don't really keep a record of it, but I just make sure that we're okay and that we're not going to be in trouble. And that, I mean, there are moments where I go, ooh, I may have miscalculated this. This may not work out. Ooh, dear. So things get a bit edgy sometimes. But once I get the sense that the work is going to dry up, I'll have to rethink. But until then, I'll just keep going like that.

Presenter37:34

Yeah.

Presenter37:37

All right, let's have some more music, Michael. It's your sixth choice today. What's next?

Michael Sheen37:41

Ah, well, given what we've been talking about, this is a piece of music called Passion. It was music that Peter Gabriel put together. I say put together because he brought together musicians from all over the world to create the music for the film The Last Temptation of Christ by Martin Scorsese. And I remember watching that film when it came out.

Michael Sheen38:00

And I remember buying the soundtrack to it. And this music, it introduced me to music that I'd never heard before, you know. I mean,

Michael Sheen38:07

And ever since then, right up to today, if I need to be creative or be inspired, I'll put this on.

Michael Sheen38:14

There's something about this album that just goes somewhere quite deep in me, I think, and and just gets my mind going and and really inspires me, and always has. Very difficult to choose one piece from it, but it seemed like a good choice given what we're talking about, to go with passion.

Presenter39:03

PETER GARIAL PASSION From the Last Temptation of Christ

Presenter39:07

Michael, you've said that playing certain roles has changed you as a person. I wonder which role has changed you the most?

Michael Sheen39:14

Well, I suppose I mean, not so much the role, but the product the passion changed I mean, it changed my life, changed everything. But in terms of playing an actual character

Michael Sheen39:26

Ooh, gosh, that's that's a tough one.

Michael Sheen39:30

I mean, sometimes it's very it's only later on you look back and you you can see how much something has affected you.

Michael Sheen39:36

Playing a character like Kenneth Williams, for instance, I remember when we filmed that.

Michael Sheen39:42

It was very low budget and I think we had fifteen days to shoot it until that time.

Presenter39:46

This is Fantabulosa. Fantabulosa. Wonderful fan.

Michael Sheen39:48

Fantabulos. So it was a really short shoot, you know, and yet I had spent months and months and months doing the research on him, because there is a lot of it.

Presenter39:58

And did you listen to Stat Island as

Michael Sheen39:59

I certainly did, which is extraordinary, yeah. And you have to lose.

Presenter40:00

Because

Presenter40:02

You have to lose three stone as well because you can

Michael Sheen40:04

I lost a lot of weight for it, yeah. And I remember getting to the end of it, and you know, they said, cut, and that's a wrap, and that was the end of it.

Michael Sheen40:11

I remember thinking, what do I do with all this now? I've literally physically changed myself more than I've ever done for a character. I've found out more about another human being than anyone ever. And now I've got nowhere to put it. That sort of obsessive nature that I think I've recognized in myself, you know, it's perfect to be able to do that because I can be as obsessive as I want. And it's all for a purpose. But then when you get to the end of it.

Michael Sheen40:39

Where does it go then? I remember thinking, maybe I should ask Go on Mastermind or something. Like, I need to do something. And then I found people online who, you know, Kenneth Williams clubs and that kinda so I'd sort of dip into that. But for a while I used to have to sort of be in for a little bit every day.

Presenter40:42

Like I need to do something. And then I found

Presenter40:54

Just to use those exercise those muscles.

Michael Sheen40:56

Just to, yeah, just to kind of decompress somehow, or something like that. And there is a kind of grieving process as well. You sort of do, you know, letting go of these characters. It is quite hard. I mean, I also getting to be David Frost for, God knows. I mean, I was David Frost for a long time doing the play in Britain and on Broadway, yeah, Frostnicks, and then the film of it.

Presenter41:13

From Britain and

Presenter41:14

A frost day.

Michael Sheen41:16

I remember with Frost Nixon, I remember thinking, it's much more fun living life as Frost than it is living life as me. So I used to really enjoy just being him all the time because it just sort of had this sort of attitude that was just yeah, it was just great.

Presenter41:24

Being him all the time because it's just sort of

Presenter41:28

Yeah, it was just

Presenter41:30

You're obviously a much loved son of Wales, and there is a mural of you, but also of your dad, on a wall in Port Talbot. I know that you went past it on the day of your dad's funeral. What does it mean to you to see it there at home?

Michael Sheen41:46

But it was sad.

Michael Sheen41:49

Yeah, it was it was

Michael Sheen41:51

It was extraordinary, really. Yeah, but the the day after my father died, my sister was going down into town and she saw

Michael Sheen42:01

The beginnings of this man painting a picture of my dad's face right next to me.

Michael Sheen42:07

And so she went up to him and spoke to him, you know, and he said, Oh, I'd heard on Facebook that your father had passed. And I saw the reactions of people and I just thought, well, this man obviously had a massive effect on this community. So I thought, you know, his face should be up there next to his son's. And so my sister came home and told us. And she told my mum. And so we knew then when we were organizing the funeral that it was sort of on the way to where the ceremony was going to happen. And so we thought it'd be a nice idea to.

Michael Sheen42:40

to drive past it and stop there and it was

Michael Sheen42:43

It's unforgettable. It was it was just wonderful.

Presenter42:45

So it's time for your seventh piece of music, Michael Sheen. What have you got for us?

Michael Sheen42:51

Uh well it

Presenter42:52

Uh The last

Michael Sheen42:52

Sort of, I'd say sort of two or three years really, I've developed an absolute love for folk music. It's not something I've been that into in the past. My obsessive nature has led me to now having a kind of an obsession about folk music. And ultimately, I chose this song because it's a song called Dark Secret by a group called Lau. Chris Driver is the singer. And this song is about coming from a small town. It has a kind of melancholy to it. This is the unplugged version of it. There is a version of it that is great, but the unplugged version of it.

Michael Sheen43:28

No notes

Speaker 343:30

Never had a dark secret

Speaker 343:35

I don't know what it is.

Michael Sheen43:35

Don't

Speaker 343:41

I've had a hard childhood.

Speaker 343:45

And I can't remember it

Speaker 343:51

Born on the Isle of Forces

Speaker 343:56

There's nothing else to do.

Presenter43:59

Lau and Dark Secret. So Michael Sheen, it's almost time to cast you away. You recently told the BBC's The Assembly that your greatest fear is loneliness. So how are you feeling about life on the desert island?

Michael Sheen44:12

The idea of being alone is something I sort of dream about because, you know, when you're busy and there's so much going on, the idea of just having a bit of time to yourself becomes, you know, a dream. But the reality of it is, you know, we are.

Michael Sheen44:24

No man is an island, as I'm sure I'm not the first person who said that on this show. But we are more than social creatures. You know, the idea that we are separate is, I believe, an illusion. We are not separate. We look separate. We look like we wander around differently and we have different experiences. But we are essentially one thing. And so the idea of being on your own is unnatural. It's just not right. It shouldn't be the case. So I think I would find that very, very difficult.

Presenter44:53

And what about the practical side of life as a castaway? How would you handle that? I mean, you know, could you knock up a shelter, catch some food, cook for yourself?

Michael Sheen45:02

I like to think I could.

Michael Sheen45:04

But I think I would be terrible.

Presenter45:06

I like to think.

Michael Sheen45:06

I like to think that I would be able to, you know.

Presenter45:09

I'm casting my mind back through the roles and thinking if you ever will there be any research that's come in handy?

Michael Sheen45:11

Thank you.

Michael Sheen45:14

I mean, you know, I played a doctor in a TV series in America called Masters of Sex. I played a doctor. I sort of convinced myself that I could probably do surgery. I could probably deliver a baby. And of course, of course I couldn't. It's just nonsense. So the idea that I could, you know, knock up a shelter and go and catch fish in the sea, the romantic notion of that, yes, I can absolutely see myself doing it. I'd be terrible, absolutely terrible. I'd be huddled under the largest leaf I could find, shouting, help!

Presenter45:18

Of course, yeah.

Presenter45:22

Please.

Presenter45:44

Well listen, before you're faced with the decision and the problem, we will give you one more disc to take with you. Your final choice today, please, Michael Sheen. What's it going to be?

Michael Sheen45:53

Well, this is a song that I first heard when I was, you know, quite young in the 80s. It's a song by a Swiss electronic band called Yellow, and it's Oh Yeah. And I think I heard it probably first in the film Ferris Bueller's Day Off. It's in that. With each of my children, when they're very little, when I'm trying to keep them entertained, or if we're walking around, they're in the prom or something. I find myself there are two songs that I try to replicate with my voice. One is Blue Monday by New Order, and the other one is this: Oh Yeah by Yellow.

Presenter46:27

Can you give us a burst?

Michael Sheen46:28

Yes, I can give you a little burst. It it seems to have worked with them all. And the bit that they really like is: I go down, dong, dong, down.

Michael Sheen46:37

Good don't don't

Michael Sheen46:41

Tuka dong dong.

Michael Sheen46:44

Dong, don't don't cheek cheek chick.

Michael Sheen46:51

And that they love and it sort of keeps them entertained and keeps them quiet and it's worked all these years for them and it has worked many more years for me.

Presenter47:00

Even better than the real thing.

Speaker 447:07

Good job.

Presenter47:31

Yellow and oh yeah. So, Michael, it's time to cast you away. You can have the books to take with you. We'll give you the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, and another book of your choice. What would you like?

Michael Sheen47:42

Well, possibly more than anyone else you've had on the show, the Bible and the works of Shakespeare'll do me.

Michael Sheen47:47

I mean, that sort of covers all my bases, really, doesn't it? You're spoiling me that I get another one as well. But ultimately, I think my favorite book of all time is a book by Joseph Campbell called The Hero with a Thousand Faces, which is about mythology, sort of world mythology. And I love that book so much because it's sort of trying to explore the idea, is there kind of one story that binds us all? Yes, that would be my way of staying with people and not being alone.

Presenter48:10

Or he bites us all.

Presenter48:16

Fabulous. Well, that's yours. You can also have a luxury item.

Michael Sheen48:19

Well, I think my luxury item would be a football.

Michael Sheen48:23

All those years as a kid, I know that I was very happy on my own, just kicking a ball around. I mean, it does require something for it to bounce off, so I'd have to find quite a sturdy tree and dodge the coconuts that fall down. But yes, I think that would bring me great joy and pleasure and solace on the island.

Presenter48:44

And if you had to save just one of the eight wonderful discs that you've chosen today, which would you rush to grab first?

Michael Sheen48:51

Vienna never stops making me try and reach that note. I mean, I could probably spend the rest of my life on the island trying to hit that note that Midge hits. And it always makes me sing along. So, the original and the best, Vienna. And that would make up for it never getting to number one. Because I don't know if anyone's chosen Joe Dolce's Shut Up Your Face as the song that they'd keep on designing this, but that's what kept it from number one. So, this is revenge.

Presenter49:17

It's righting the wrong. That was Joe Dolce's.

Michael Sheen49:19

So

Michael Sheen49:20

Midge's Revenge.

Presenter49:23

Michael Sheen, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Michael Sheen49:26

Such a pleasure. Thank you.

Presenter49:41

Hello, it was so lovely to chat to Michael and I hope he's very happy on his island with his football. There are more than 2,000 programmes in our archive that you can listen to. We've cast away other actors to the island over the years, including fellow son of Port Talbot, Sir Anthony Hopkins. You can find some of the people that Michael has played to, including Kenneth Williams, whose episode is wonderful, Tori Blair, Chris Tarrant and David Frost. You can hear their programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our own Desert Island Disc's website. The studio manager for today's programme was Donald MacDonald. The executive production coordinator was Susie Roylence. The assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky. The content editor was Mugabe Turia and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Join me next time when my guest will be the artist Angela Harding.

Presenter50:47

Our culture can cancel someone in the blink of an eye. Celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty can all find themselves in the firing line. In the age of AI generated evidence, lawsuits written in legalese you need to pass the bar to decipher, how are you supposed to separate the fact from the fiction?

Presenter51:06

That's where we come in. I'm Anishka Matanda Dauty and this is Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds. We'll mythbus, debunk, pre-bunk, fact check and get to the truth behind the timeline. There are new episodes every week, so make sure you listen to Fame Under Fire and subscribe on BBC Sounds.