Monica Dolan

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds Music Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast from BBC Radio 4. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury, that they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music's shorter than on the original broadcast, but you can find a version with longer music tracks on BBC Sounds. Listeners will also get access to episodes 28 days earlier than everyone else. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:50

My castaway this week is the actor Monica Dolan, a BAFTA and Olivier Award winner who is equally at home playing a wrongfully convicted postmistress in mister Bates v. the Post Office as she is navigating the court of Henry the Eighth. in Wolf Hall.

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She's written and performed a critically acclaimed one woman show at Edinburgh Festival and brought menacing gangland matriarch Anne Branson in Sherwood chillingly to life.

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She's especially good at characters whose apparently ordinary exteriors belie a deeper, inner turmoil. She calls them her cardigan roles, women with cosy knitwear and sensible haircuts who, beneath the surface, are a seething mass of drama, intrigue, vulnerability, and sometimes pure evil. She was born to Irish parents who'd come to Britain to pursue their work as scientists and grew up in Surrey, where she dreamed of becoming an actor, secretly withdrawing her university application to ensure she followed that path. She says, I think imagination is an actor's most useful tool, and truth and authenticity are different things. Truth is more important. Monica Dolan, welcome to Desert Island Disc. Thank you so much. What a wonderful introduction. That's so kind.

Monica Dolan1:54

Thank you.

Presenter1:58

Well it's wonderful to have you here. We're talking not long after the BAFTAs where you were nominated twice, once for leading actress playing sub-postmistress Joe Hamilton in Mr. Bates vs. the Post Office and then again as supporting actress for your role as the evil Anne Branson in Sherwood. Now it says a lot about you Monica that you were nominated for such different roles. How do you prepare for a part when you're portraying someone who's a real person like Joe Hamilton? How close do you want to get to the truth of who they are and to the person themselves? Every actor is different but I think that you slightly have to keep yourself in there. You have to kind of think well

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If I was this person, how would I behave? I was very lucky with Jo because she's definitely more approachable than most of the people that I've played, or some of the people that I've played.

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I met her, and I think you'd be surprised how many things just at the beginning are really practical things. Like it went over 20 years, so it was okay, what colour was your hair that year, or what sort of things were you wearing, or also obviously what was going on in your life. One of the things I did very early on, actually, which was really helpful, which I'll definitely do again, was to ask her if it wasn't too intrusive, and I felt with her that I could, to ask her to record her life story, just a little version, like 15-minute version, up to the point where the script begins, where it all starts. That was really useful because, you know, you get your makeup on and everything at unit base. Then you have to travel to the location or wherever you're filming, and you've always got a bit of time. So I could listen to her voice and I'd have her voice in my head, and also I'd have her background in my head. That was very useful indeed, because you're kind of absorbing that person. What a brilliant idea. And it resonated so strongly, Mr. Bate. I mean, had this huge impact on the national conversation. The viewing public was scandalised about what was happening to postmasters, some of them due to the faulty Horizon IT accounting software. People wrongly accused of theft, some went to prison, people's marriages broke up.

Speaker 23:59

Yeah.

Presenter4:04

And it really reignited atten and focused attention on the scandal. What was that like for you, having been part of the show, to watch it connect with people in that way? I was immensely proud of people for being that collectively angry, I think.

Presenter4:19

We get lots of anger popping up in sort of little spiteful ways, I guess, on social media. But it really, really felt like a collective anger that could focus in and do something. And you can't ask for more than that, really. I also think the timing I've actually talked to the scheduling people since, because I'm quite nosy about it. I think the timing was incredible because it came out on New Year's Day. People are a bit hungover or whatever.

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And thinking, oh, sh what should we watch, you know, oh, this looks cosy post people kind of thing.

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The timing in that sense was really good, but also that there was.

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probably going to be an election in May.

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Because if there was collective outrage about something in a way the politicians, because of partly because of the timing, had to listen more. Also if we'd come out in May we would have been at the same time as Baby Reindeer, which wouldn't have been great. Just as well you're out on New Year's Day.

Presenter5:20

And obviously you're sharing your discs with us today. How important is music in your life?

Monica Dolan5:22

How important

Presenter5:25

Well, we weren't really, really allowed a lot of music at home. Or if we did have music at home, my dad would say close the two doors. He'd be in the living room watching the telly.

Monica Dolan5:36

But

Speaker 45:36

Yeah.

Monica Dolan5:36

Uh

Presenter5:37

And my sister, who's nine years older than me, would be generally doing her homework and listening to Diana Ross or Donna Summer or something like that.

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Well, I made her listen to My Fair Lady, I think, as well. Well, let's get started. Tell us about your first. My first disc is The Banana Splits, which was a T V programme and it's a T V theme.

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And the reason that I've got that is because I was a rhesus baby, which means that my blood group was the opposite to my mum's blood group.

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And because of my sister, who I just mentioned, who is nine years older than me, who was also the same blood group as me, my mum's body started to create antibodies to attack

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The opposite blood group to her. This was 1969, and I had to be induced early. They took me home and

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I think about thirteen days later.

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They

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took me to be checked up at the doctor's and the doctor said that my red blood cell count was extremely low. So I had to go back into hospital.

Speaker 46:39

Hmm.

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and I had to have a blood transfusion.

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So I want to publicly thank the person who gave me the blood.

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And the reason it's the banana splits is because once I was on solids, she was trying to boost my iron levels. My mum put lots of iron in my food.

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to try and build up the red blood cells, and it was so disgusting. I used to spit it everywhere, used to spit the food everywhere. And the only way that she could get the food into my mouth

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was when the Banana Splits came on and and that song played and then I'd be absolutely riveted to the T V and she could stuff the food in and get the iron into me. So in some ways I could possibly say that the Banana Splits song saved my life.

Speaker 47:46

Uh

Speaker 47:50

Banana, two, banana, three, banana, four Four bananas, make a bunch of soda, many more.

Speaker 47:57

Now where the banana buggies go, coming home to bring you the banana

Presenter8:01

Well, that's a strong start. The trolla la song from The Banana Split. So Monica Dolan, let's go back to the beginning. You were born in 1969 to Jim and Anne. They met while they were studying at the University College in Dublin. Your mum was studying biochemistry and botany. Would there have been many women on a course like that in those days? No, they wouldn't at all. I think that my mum and a few other women, notably several nuns, were on the front row and all the men had to stand up when they walked in and then once the women were seated they could all sit down.

Monica Dolan8:19

But there'll be

Presenter8:38

So my dad probably got quite a good look at my mum.

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I think they were both in the same chemistry class, and there was a trip to Belgium.

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So he decided, I think, that he was going to carry her bag. He's no longer with us, but he always maintained that the death of romance and the problem with relationships and starting relationships is roll-along suitcases and roll-along bags because if there weren't then you could be chivalrous and go and help someone with their bag and not enough opportunities for gallantry. Exactly.

Monica Dolan9:08

No, no, no.

Presenter9:11

Your parents left Ireland to come to the UK to forge their careers. They were both devout Catholics and religion was a big part of family life. How did they balance that faith with their work as scientists? I think that was really hard for them actually. My mum's pretty extraordinary. So when she was young, you weren't supposed to believe in Darwinism or anything like that. And she just always did as a scientist. And I was like, well, but you know, fairly lately, I sort of said, but you weren't supposed to believe in all that. And how did you?

Presenter9:41

And she went, Well, I just didn't tell anyone, you know. You just didn't mention it. No, I it was like, Oh, yeah, yeah, I knew that it was right, but

Monica Dolan9:44

Yeah.

Monica Dolan9:46

It was like

Presenter9:49

I think chemical engineering

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My sister became a chemical engineer for a while as well, and it certainly was.

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difficult for women. That world at the time, I don't know how much it's changed, but at the time was very

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Macho

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And that would have been difficult for my dad as well because he was quite you know, sort of had poetry in his soul and he was quite um intense sort of person and

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Yeah, he's qui he was quite deep thinking and deep feeling sort of person. You know, quite um innocent in some ways. So I think he could be quite shocked by things.

Presenter10:25

It's time for some music, Monica Dolan, your second disc today. What are we going to hear and why? We're going to hear that's entertainment by the Jam. I grew up in Woking and I should probably be choosing a town called Malice because that is about Woking. But I'm choosing that's entertainment because

Presenter10:43

I think it's sort of about what there was to do or what there wasn't to do in Woking. And so I was growing up there in the 80s and it was quite a spiky place to live, quite an acoustic place to live. And I really felt the difference actually when I left there, yeah. Did you ever see the jam live? I mean, did you ever see them round the neighbourhood? I didn't. They were quite a bit older than me. And actually, I met Paul Weller since because he was performing at my drama school and it was towards when I was leaving.

Presenter11:14

So I went up and talked to him then. Did you have the walking chat? Yes, I did actually. I remember saying to him something about that his work was really passionate and that I really liked Shakespeare and Shakespeare's really passionate. I think I was saying, Oh, oh, you know, King Lear, I really like that one and

Presenter11:31

He said all right, Shakespeare and shit, yeah.

Presenter11:34

And I say, Yes, yes, you'd love it, Paul.

Monica Dolan11:34

Yeah.

Speaker 411:34

Yes, yes.

Speaker 411:40

This car and a screaming siren You may

Speaker 411:44

The ripple time is going to raise

Speaker 411:47

Maybe weighing straight on Mountain Scrutin brakes and lamp light blinking Let's see

Speaker 411:54

Untertainbox Unertain

Speaker 412:03

A smash of glass and the rumble

Speaker 412:07

An electric train and a ripped out fumble

Presenter12:10

The Jam and That's Entertainment. So, Monica Dolan, you were the youngest of four, so two older sisters and a brother.

Speaker 412:17

PM

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How did you get along as a Foresom?

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Well, I was uh five years younger than my brother, and he was the next one up, and then my other sister was two years older than him, and then my other sister was two years older than than her. So

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I felt like I was playing catch-up a lot of the time. So you were very much the baby of the family. Yeah, and it was really hard to join in because they'd be playing chess or I'd sort of want to learn how to play chess, but then they didn't really want to teach me and I'd in all honesty I mean anyone who's tried to teach me to play chess since will tell you that I get bored quite quickly with it.

Presenter12:54

It sounds like a kind of very academic family through and through yours. How did you fit into that? Certainly Gabriel and Paul. Gabriel was seven years older than me and Paul was five years older. Yeah, they were very academic indeed. I mean Gabriel ended up teaching at Imperial College. She's actually got a maths award named after her. Wow. Paul did engineering and and then Adele, she sort of did enough to make her life happy I think, which is probably the cleverest thing to do.

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you know, in terms of being at school and I know it shouldn't be a competition, but it's, you know, sibling rivalry is a thing and

Presenter13:30

I think I knew that there wasn't a way to win. What were your ta-da moments to get that kind of glow of parental attention?

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Well, sometimes it didn't always come out in a glow. But certainly I remember dressing up as Hong Kong Fui. One time when I'd been told off and been sent upstairs and I had a red dressing gown and I remember

Presenter13:50

Coming through the door doing karate chops and so he was a karate dog? Would we describe Hong Kong Fui as? From the 1970s? I think I probably hadn't.

Monica Dolan13:56

Yeah, I guess.

Presenter14:00

Done the whole authenticity thing of making myself into a dog in my mind. But yeah, I came through the door with my karate chops and everything and.

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My dad didn't laugh, but everybody else laughed. And I thought, oh, this is obviously the way to do things. At what point then did you realise that you wanted to act yourself? Can you remember? Did it start at school or was it always there? It did start at school. I mean, I just got a feeling from it that I didn't get from anywhere else. And I think it was basically a feeling of being noticed or being seen, as people now say. I thought, oh, I want more of this. And then also my brother did some acting at school as well. And I always wanted to be like him. I really, really looked up to him.

Presenter14:41

And when you were a teenager, you joined a youth group called ACT One in Guildford. What was it like?

Monica Dolan14:46

Yeah.

Presenter14:48

It wasn't like anything else I'd ever done. I don't remember this, but my mum says that I came home and said, I've found my people, which sounds very dramatic, doesn't it? The great thing was that you could swear. There was lots of improvisation. It was on a Thursday night and a Saturday morning. And you'd get into groups and you'd be given something to work on and you'd be given improvisations to do. And I actually remember being with a guy called Nigel who was in it and we couldn't think of anything to do. And we just said, let's just swear.

Presenter15:23

So we kind of went on and just did a lot of swearing. I had really spiky, really short hair and DMs. Everyone wore DMs and everyone smoked. There was actually a girl who thought that you had to smoke in order to be in it.

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So you were kind of unleashing your inner punk a little bit? I think so. And also the structure that my parents had or tried to keep.

Presenter15:44

I think it was a brilliant way of rebelling actually. It was a very safe environment apart from the smoking. It was a very safe environment to do that. And how did your parents react when you told them that this was something you wanted to pursue as a career?

Presenter15:58

I think mainly they just thought, we don't know anything about that, we can't help you with that. And there's definitely a reason why.

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Two out of three of my siblings went into chemical engineering. It's because my dad was a chemical engineer and he'd come from Ireland and he knew that you could make a living.

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In terms of what they could do, anything that they could do, or knew how to do.

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They did it 100%. So tell me about secretly withdrawing your university application to make sure that drama school would be your next step.

Presenter16:29

That's a big a big thing to do, especially in

Monica Dolan16:29

That's a big

Presenter16:32

In a family where, you know, there's kind of this lineage this pretty academic path. Yes, I remember I'd already done it and

Monica Dolan16:40

Before you

Presenter16:43

Then I had the conversation with my mum of like, well, why do you want me to go to university so much?

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Her saying, well, you know, I had a really good time at university and all of that.

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I did want to be an actor and that was kind of that.

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But we went to a few universities and looked at them.

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And it just didn't feel right and I didn't.

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I just thought, I don't want to be here. This isn't where I want to be.

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Say then

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I spotted in the pamphlet that there was a page at the back that had one of those

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Little scissors and a dotted line, and you could fill that in and say that you were withdrawing for them all, and so I did it.

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Did you do and you did it in secret?

Presenter17:27

I did it in private, yes.

Presenter17:31

That's an important thing. And then I told them that that's what I'd done. The reason that I say that I did it in private is'cause it was my life and it it's my life and that's what I wanted to do with it. Well I mean I withdrew and then I kind of

Monica Dolan17:32

And then

Presenter17:42

Tried to get into drama school for a couple of years. Well, let's let's find out what happened next in a minute. First though, I'd love to hear your next disc, Monica. Number three, what's it gonna be? My next disc is nothing.

Monica Dolan17:44

So that's

Presenter17:54

From a chorus line, which is sort of all about improvisation. And these directors are clever people. I remember being at a party, and it was a director's party, and he was choosing different things for people to sing. And he just said, Right, Monica, you're up, and gave me the mic and put this on, and I could just sing it straight away, and I loved singing it.

Speaker 418:18

Every day for a week we would try to feel the motion, feel the motion down the hill. Every day for a week we would try to hear the wind rush, hear the windrush, feel the chill. And I double right down to the bottom of my soul to see what I had inside. Yes, I double right down to the bottom of my soul and I tried, I tried. And everybody's going shh.

Monica Dolan18:40

Down

Monica Dolan18:41

No to see what I have

Speaker 418:56

I feel the snow, I feel the cold, I feel the air.

Presenter19:00

Nothing performed by Priscilla Lopez and a chorus line orchestra conducted by Don Pippin from the original Broadway cast recording.

Presenter19:08

So Monica, you'd set your sights on going to drama school. You did have a day job at this point. You were working at the job center in Woking. What do you remember about that time? One of my really

Monica Dolan19:15

Yeah.

Presenter19:20

Large regrets is that I did not keep a diary of when I worked at Waking Job Center because I think it was to do with.

Presenter19:29

Maybe how unemployment was at the time or something. Was this late eighties? It was late eighties, yeah. It would have been sort of eighty-seven to eighty-nine.

Monica Dolan19:32

And slap.

Monica Dolan19:33

It was

Presenter19:37

And also

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There was a psychiatric hospital, I suppose you'd call it, which w in Woking, which was closed during that time.

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And we had really, really a great variety of people, let's say, coming into the job centre and trying to get jobs.

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And um I was also working with

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A guy that had been in my year at school, Jason, he was the other one sat on the desk. And the people that you would see, you would see every day.

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And I remember

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Being with Jason, there was one particular quite young guy came in.

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And he came in every day and we were like

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Oh my God, I managed to get him a job, I managed to get him a job And then a couple of days later he was in again. One of the things I really remember is seeing somebody spiral down, and it was really upsetting.

Presenter20:26

So alongside all this, of course, you still had hopes and dreams of your own and were focussed on acting, and you got your place at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama. Tell me about your time there.

Monica Dolan20:32

Yeah.

Presenter20:38

How much did you enjoy it? I have to say that was after a long time that I got that. So I'd been auditioning for two years that I was at the job center.

Monica Dolan20:38

Yeah.

Presenter20:47

And it was the last place, I think, that I got a recall and I hadn't got in any of the other places. I really liked Guildall. And what about for your parents? Did they come and see you in student productions? My parents came to see absolutely everything.

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And we're really, really affected by it actually.

Presenter21:08

I remember like my first job was at Exeter at the Northcott Theatre and they drove there. Then there was like a rumour that I had an audition for Pitt Lockery and they had got their maps out and they were looking at how to get to Pitt Lockery and I was like I haven't even gone for the audition yet you know. They were also supportive when you had to perform for a panel to get a discretionary grant. That's right. Whatever they saw that they could do they would do. I auditioned at the Redgrave Theatre in Farnham and there was a certain number of grants for dance and drama and maybe music actually as well. It's kind of upsetting because you've got your place at drama school. Like everyone that auditioned had got a place at a school that was really difficult to get into and then they had to try and get the money to go there. So I auditioned for

Presenter22:01

Panel and my parents drove there the day before so that I wouldn't be late. They practiced the drive there to make sure that I wouldn't be late and then did the drive there the next day. And did you get the grant? I did get a grant, yes. I had to do a mime in the audition, which I have. Well, I have to say that I've never done one since, and I think theatre is better for it, probably. I was going to say, I've seen you do a lot, but not a mime. Well, you know, actually, maybe I should try that next. Maybe.

Speaker 222:19

Shut up.

Presenter22:30

First though, I think we'd better have some more music. Your fourth choice today, Monica, what's it gonna be?

Presenter22:35

Love and Affection by Joan Alma Trading. There was a show that I was doing, and for some reason, lots of the cast were camping.

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And I wasn't.

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And uh I I remember one night just staying with them when when they were camping and

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One of the actors, Simon Coates, had his guitar out and he started singing this song. And like doing all the parts to it, there's different parts to it.

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And I just thought, what is that song? And then I listened to Joan Alma Trading. Just the arrangement is so beautiful, and she's just extraordinary. I mean, what a pioneer. And she just really, really, really loves her music.

Presenter23:18

Now we fucking stoop

Presenter23:21

Love the song Uh

Speaker 423:24

My eyes and the rain are my face

Speaker 423:27

Why can't I fall?

Speaker 423:45

Uh

Presenter23:48

Joan Alma Trading and Love and Affection.

Presenter23:53

One of the things that really is amazing about your ability is the way that you can take on an accent. Even the trickiest accents, you're exceptional at them. And I know that when you were playing Press Officer Tracy Pritchard in W1A, people were often very sort of disappointed, surprised that you weren't actually Welsh when they heard you speaking. Right. Even casting directors. I think even some of the cast, I mean, obviously they knew I wasn't Welsh, but I do remember Nina Sasania. I remember texting her, like, and she said, you do realise that every time you text, I hear it in Welsh, because it wasn't a staying in character thing, but in between the takes, I would still carry on with the accent because it's different muscles and you don't want to sort of let it slip, you know. So what's your approach then when you need to get an accent just right and which has been the most difficult?

Presenter24:43

The approach is to get a really good dialect coach, and also, actually, to be fair.

Presenter24:50

I do the psychological work at a different time to the accent work. So the accent work's really just technical.

Presenter24:57

It's to do with the sounds and the rhythm and I

Presenter25:00

I remember with the Gloucester accent with Rosemary West just being really painstaking and every time it was an A sound I'd go through the whole script doing that sound and every time it was an S sound I'd do the same.

Presenter25:14

Well, winning a BAFTA must have been a moment that you knew that you'd officially arrived. You won it for your part as serial killer Rosemary West in Appropriate Adult, and it was a harrowing performance as well as an acclaimed one. How did you prepare for that part? So emotionally difficult. How did you cope with the research? I was really scared of doing it. And also it wasn't a big role. So I was sort of saying to my agent, this is a lot of dark place to go to. I was definitely concerned about what it might do. And I went to visit

Presenter25:50

her solicitor and he lent me the transcript of her trial. And obviously like reading a lot of any trial is quite can be quite boring, but it's also slightly like reading a play as well. You really get a sense of what the people's physicality is like and what they look like and

Presenter26:09

could kind of hear the v vastness of what was happening to her, I think, in it. And how do you cast something like that off at the end of the day? Is it easy to do that, for you, to switch out of work and into back into yourself? I think I like to think it is. I did have to be fairly careful at the time just because my temple was so available.

Presenter26:28

and so near the surface and

Presenter26:31

In terms of the research, people would say, Oh, so what happened? and they'd want to know about it and then you'd get to a certain point and they wouldn't really want to know, but you'd have started offloading, you know. I remember a long time after it, just going in home and then the guy upstairs saying, Monica, Monica, you're on television and um so I went up to his flat and his girlfriend and

Presenter26:54

It was just a scene from the police interviews, and I wasn't even in that scene, but I just felt under my skin felt like ice. And I thought, Oh, goodness me, I I was feeling like this all the time when I was doing that. So it's good to have things that earth you. But I also remember my mum saying, when I went from doing Jane Eyre to doing

Presenter27:14

I think it was quite a quick turnaround to playing Laura in the Glass Menagerie.

Presenter27:18

She absolutely could not believe how

Presenter27:21

Quickly I lost interest in in one and sort of

Presenter27:25

then went on to the other one, but I think that, you know

Presenter27:29

Who is it said actors are the opposite to people?

Presenter27:32

And I know that I can sometimes

Presenter27:37

have a quite clinical approach. And I don't know how this will be taken, but I think there's a certain point to which you mustn't care too much. And I really hesitate to say that because some of the situations are so serious. But you really actually have to remember it's a game. And I know that sounds brutal. That acting is plain. Yeah, you know, just in order to protect yourself and the other actors and also to keep it objective, otherwise you will go nuts, you know. You have to be able to talk about the scene and

Presenter28:13

So just sometimes come out of it and talk about something technical maybe.

Presenter28:17

Or you've got the dialect coach going, nope, you got that wrong again, you got that sound wrong again.

Presenter28:24

I think we'd better take uh a moment for some more music, Monica Dole and it's your fifth choice today. What are we going to hear next, and why? We're now going to hear MacArthur Park, and it's the Richard Harris version.

Presenter28:35

And I think if I didn't put this in, I'd have lots of complaints from friends whose parties I've put to.

Presenter28:42

A premature, slow, painful death with this song.

Presenter28:47

So, not always a crowd pleaser. No, I think it's very definitely the end of the night when this goes on.

Presenter28:54

I really love this, partly because a boyfriend of mine made a tape for me with it on there and

Presenter29:02

I love the image. I think quite a lot of people think that there is actually a cake left out in the rain and.

Presenter29:10

It's the park that's melting. So it's the snow and the green icing's coming down because the green of the grass is is coming through the snow. And the love wasn't going to last till the springtime. It was it was for winter.

Presenter29:27

And why it means something to me is that sometimes life throws something at you and you'll lose something completely.

Presenter29:35

And you can't get it back.

Presenter29:38

And

Presenter29:40

There's so much in the song about knowing that and accepting that.

Presenter29:45

And

Presenter29:46

Saying I'll take the rest of my life and I'll use it, and that once if things happen to you, you can take them as experience and

Presenter29:58

use the rest of your life and also move on with that experience. And so yeah, it's a very long song, but it's a a very wise song.

Speaker 430:13

The sweet green icing flowing down Someone left the cake out in the rain

Speaker 430:21

I don't think that I can take it, cause it took so long to bake it, and I'll never have that recipe again. Oh no!

Presenter30:38

Richard Harris and MacArthur Park.

Presenter30:41

Monica, you're on record as saying that there aren't enough female playwrights, and in twenty seventeen you took matters into your own hands. You wrote The Beasts, a one woman show, and took that to Edinburgh. Tell me a bit about the idea behind the play.

Presenter30:55

Well, I don't know if I can talk very openly about the idea without giving it away. So what I will say is that it's really about the sexualization of culture and sexualization of children actually. So in the title, it looks like beasts,'cause the the first is an asterisk. Yeah.

Monica Dolan31:12

Yeah.

Monica Dolan31:14

Uh

Presenter31:15

I think that was a little nod to in the 90s, there were lots of plays that had asterisks in. You can call it the Beasts Alder Breast, yeah. It's such a big thing to take on a one-woman show at Edinburgh. I mean, you know you're going to be on stage every day and it's just you, it's all on you. How did you get ready? How did you prepare to go to the festival? I had a really, really good director who I've known since 1998, John Hoggarth. And I just really surrounded myself with people that I

Presenter31:46

loved and I hope loved me, and the first time I ever read it to anyone was in a room full of eight friends.

Presenter31:54

And

Presenter31:55

I sort of sat in my kitchen with the spotlights on and they sat in the living room and watched me.

Presenter32:00

And I, you know, made them lots of sandwiches and wine, hoping that they would forgive me. And with those eight people, they happened to be actually looking back on it I chose quite well'cause they were sort of in different aspects of theatre and could give me advice and help.

Presenter32:16

But

Presenter32:17

Also there were eight people that I thought

Presenter32:20

If I start crying ten minutes in and say, Can we go to the pub? They won't mind, you know.

Presenter32:26

The first time I read it to friends, I couldn't believe that I was still alive at the end of it. I was so nervous. It's very exposing. Yeah, did you feel vulnerable?

Monica Dolan32:32

Did you

Presenter32:34

Yeah, I felt much more vulnerable than

Presenter32:36

than when I act. I mean, I I also remember

Presenter32:39

Oh, I remember when John was trying to cut bits of it and there was you know, he was he was dramaturg as well and

Presenter32:47

I son of it I just thought I'd never been this angry in my life, him wanting to cut this, but has he not read it?

Presenter32:53

It's time for some more music, Monica Dolan, your sixth choice today. What's next? The next song that I'm choosing is The Night by Diane Chorley.

Presenter33:03

When I was in Edinburgh, after my director designer after they'd all gone, I thought, right, this is just me in the dressing room. Little did I know that I'd be sharing the dressing room with Millie Thomas, who was

Presenter33:17

doing the show just before me, and also eight guys, and one of them was David Selly, who performs Diane Chorley. He was in the same space as I was, but he wasn't the next show, he was the one after that, but it took him so long to get ready.

Presenter33:32

that we would always talk outrageous and maternal.

Presenter33:40

And inclusive, and he wrote this song, and I couldn't believe he'd written it. I think it's a masterpiece.

Speaker 433:47

Then you came in through our door at the flame

Speaker 433:54

You ain't strange anymore

Speaker 433:59

Cause some of us belong to the night, this guy lies

Speaker 434:08

I'm here to guide you Some of us be long to the night

Presenter34:19

The Night, Diane Chorley.

Presenter34:21

Now, Monica, we all had to adapt the way that we worked during COVID and you were no different. You starred in a new episode of Alan Bennett's Talking Heads during that time called The Shrine. So you played a newly widowed woman, Lorna. Her husband's died on a motorbike and she finds out that there was a lot more going on with him than she realised. But is it right that that piece was almost lost to history?

Presenter34:45

That's what's so extraordinary, isn't it? Yes. So.

Presenter34:50

Apparently, Alan Bennett wrote a book called Two Besides, which tells how

Presenter34:55

These

Presenter34:57

Extra pieces came out. Apparently, Piers Wenger, who was running the drama department at BBC.

Presenter35:04

Decided it would be a good idea to do talking heads because you just needed the actor, camera operator, and the sound operator. I think they asked Nicholas Heitner, could

Presenter35:15

Alan Bennett write a couple more, Talking Heads, because they were going to do all the original ones, they were going to redo them.

Presenter35:22

And also do them on the East End of stage, which is massive. So that's all good for social distancing, and you can't get more English than

Presenter35:30

Alan Bennett and the East Enders coming together, yeah.

Monica Dolan35:32

The East Enders coming together, yeah.

Presenter35:34

Anyway, Nicholas Hytner sort of thought, well, of course, you know, it's Alan Bennett. You can't just ask him to write a couple more. One doesn't email Alan Bennett and Well, I I don't think one does'cause also he types everything.

Presenter35:47

He apparently just remembered.

Presenter35:49

that Alan Bennett a couple of years before had brought him round

Presenter35:54

Another talking head script. So he went to look for that because he thought maybe we could do that one. So that's the one that Sarah Lancashire ended up doing.

Presenter36:02

and underneath that one

Presenter36:04

Was the one that I did. So that was in the bottom of the drawer. Exactly. And it did fit that extraordinary moment. As you say, technically, you know, it was possible to shoot that as well. You gave a mesmeric performance, but you weren't just on acting duty. What other aspects of your performance were you managing?

Monica Dolan36:14

Yeah.

Presenter36:22

Oh, well, we had really incredible people. None of us were doing anything, so we had Oscar winning.

Presenter36:30

makeup designer and Oscar winning costume designer. But you had a makeup designer, but they couldn't put makeup on you, presumably, because of so much. No, they couldn't. No, she couldn't. So we had to be on Zoom and I would be doing my makeup. And what was quite funny was that what looked less orange to me looked more orange to her over Zoom.

Presenter36:51

At one point she said, Monica, you've only put makeup on the front of your face because obviously I wasn't used to

Monica Dolan36:55

Yeah.

Presenter36:57

Doing that at all. The piece is, you know, a lot of it, the big theme is grief. And obviously, you know, that resonated with people completely during the pandemic. And was something that you were personally experiencing because you lost your brother Paul to COVID. I did, yeah. I was outside learning my lines for the Alan Bennett one and then found that I'd got all these messages on my phone and um

Monica Dolan37:07

Pandemic

Presenter37:24

Yeah, my my sister was pretty amazing actually. She

Presenter37:29

I just remember her saying

Presenter37:35

Just saying, are you sitting down? Because it's not good.

Presenter37:40

And then telling me, yeah. Um

Presenter37:44

And

Presenter37:48

It was really, really good to have that work and

Presenter37:51

It does help to have to have work to to throw yourself into and and

Speaker 437:51

To help

Presenter37:55

Distract yourself when you're going through something difficult. But I mean, especially at that time, because everybody's so kind of.

Monica Dolan37:59

Yeah.

Presenter38:02

Dislocated, you know, everybody's separated from each other, so we're all isolating. And then you lose someone in this way that is so shocking and.

Speaker 438:06

Yeah.

Presenter38:11

You know, it's doubly isolating, it's traumatic. Yes, and also, everything just took such a long time because.

Presenter38:19

Well, to put it bluntly, there was such a back up of bodies that

Presenter38:24

We're being dealt with. So he died on the 10th of April.

Presenter38:30

which was Good Friday, so

Presenter38:32

We've got two anniversaries, tenth of April and Good Friday, of course. And then we had the funeral and that wasn't till, I think, the fourth of June. Was it socially distanced? Were how many people were there? Including the priest. There was me, my mum.

Presenter38:50

My sister, my brother-in-law, and my niece, and my other niece had had a baby ten days before my brother died. So

Presenter38:58

She and the baby didn't come because we

Presenter39:01

As my my brother-in-law said, the star of the show has got to be Paul, not the baby. So, um but it was actually, I think, the first day that you could sit in the garden with

Presenter39:12

Social distancing. So we all did that.

Speaker 439:14

Hmm.

Monica Dolan39:14

Top.

Presenter39:15

And we all had the same biscuits, I really remember that. We didn't want to argue about.

Presenter39:20

Whose biscuits were whose or

Presenter39:22

Yeah.

Presenter39:23

Yeah, it

Presenter39:27

I do remember as well my friends were absolutely terrific.

Presenter39:33

There were a lot of lines in the Alan Bennett.

Presenter39:36

And actually, it's quite good to have something that just runs through your head, you know.

Presenter39:42

They just tested me on my lines over Zoom. And Paul wasn't the first sibling that you lost, Monica, because you lost your sister Gabriel in in two thousand eight. Yeah. I mean, it must have been all the more difficult for the family, for your mum especially, to cope with.

Monica Dolan39:52

Yeah.

Presenter39:58

This time round, were you able to support her?

Presenter40:02

We were living in different places, me and my mum.

Presenter40:05

Say

Presenter40:06

What we used to do.

Presenter40:08

I was quite pleased with this way that I structured my day, but it gets to five o'clock and it's sort of that nothingy time, so we both used to watch the Chase at five o'clock every day.

Presenter40:19

And also there's kind of nothing to talk about. So if you've both watched the chase and then ring each other afterwards and talk about how it went and who won and

Presenter40:27

It's sort of something that

Presenter40:29

Keeps you going, I think. Does this explain your appearance on the c celebrity version of the chase? Yes, it does, yes.

Monica Dolan40:30

Does this

Monica Dolan40:33

Yeah.

Presenter40:36

I think it's great.

Presenter40:37

Alright, let's have some more music, Monica. Your seventh choice today. What are we going to hear next? So number seven is by Kirsty McColl, who I think is tremendous and curious musician. And this is a brilliantly audacious, it's such a confident song and there's so much vigour in it. And it's called Us Amazonians. Where does it take you back to?

Presenter41:02

So I went through a stage of which thankfully I think is over now, every play that I did had a dance at the end. I even did Macbeth and that had a dance at the end, and my flatmate said I'm booking my ticket now.

Presenter41:16

I think really doing a dance at the end is sort of a bit of a sneaky way of trying to get standing emotions. That's what I think.

Speaker 441:26

We pray to our saints and be made love of

Speaker 441:31

I fell in love with a real city boy who's afraid of his nature, afraid of the joy. I punched him out and brought him to this hut. But I know he'll thank me when he wakes up. We got trees, we got snakes, we got acres of sky. His life in the city was making him cry.

Speaker 441:52

Come on, come on.

Presenter41:54

Kirstie McCall, Us Amazonians. Monica Dolan, we've recently seen you on screen as the very scary Anne Branson in Sherwood. It's hard to believe that the funny, charming person in front of me can channel such malevolence. How do you get into the right headspace to play her? Oh, I loved playing Anne Branson. It was really, really good fun. I really, really trusted the writer, James Graham, so I've I've known his work.

Presenter42:19

For a long time, I just thought I've just got to follow what he's given me. And sometimes what she was saying had nothing to do with what she was doing or what she was about to do. And sometimes she was at her most chatty when she was about to do something really horrible or malevolent. And I loved it because it wasn't overwritten. So much of like looking at a part and analysing a part. You're kind of joining the dots. And with her, there were so few dots. And you just really had to look at what she was doing.

Presenter42:59

That's something that I

Presenter43:01

think is is a w is a wonderful thing to do when when you have a script is to look at what the person does and not necessarily what don't get too lost in what they say.

Presenter43:10

It's really about what they're doing. And sometimes, you know, you get you can actually play people who seem very sunny.

Presenter43:17

And it's not one of them, obviously. But.

Presenter43:19

You then realise they're like steel, you know. It's almost time to cast you away, Monica. How do you imagine life on the island? Will you embrace solitude?

Presenter43:29

Yeah, I think I really will, actually. I think I'm one of those quite lucky people. I I like socializing. I love being with other people, but I like being on my own as well.

Presenter43:40

And also I feel like

Presenter43:44

It's been quite a busy life so far, so it'd be good to have a bit of time just to look out to the sea and sort of.

Presenter43:51

Maybe let it flow over me what it all meant all means. And what sort of island are you hoping for? It sounds like you're imagining yourself somewhere tropical. Yeah, I think it's sort of the slightly bog standard kind of emoji one that's got an island that's got the palm on it, you know, that's that's that's sort of uninhabited and quite small and quite sandy.

Monica Dolan44:05

Yeah.

Presenter44:11

What will you miss the most, do you think?

Presenter44:16

Miss my friends.

Presenter44:18

And I'll really miss Velma, my my dog.

Monica Dolan44:21

Yeah. Bip.

Presenter44:23

Velma is a Siberian husky and

Presenter44:28

She's very clever. The other day I was about to leave the house and I'd left a window open and she went she stood by the window. She always looks like she's smiling but that might might just be her mouth, I don't know. And uh she's really, really friendly, she loves people, she loves other dogs. There's nothing so thrilling as watching her run towards me. It's like having your own wildlife programme.

Presenter44:52

We'll let you have one more disc before we cast you away. What's your final choice going to be, Monica? My memory of it is living in a house in Kilburn, a shared house, and us all standing in a circle, a bit under the influence, and singing all the different parts of it and swaying. It's the South American getaway from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. It really, really sounds like

Presenter45:17

like the getaway that it is. And also I've got to say that I really love Paul Newman and Robert Redford's relationship, their chemistry as well.

Speaker 445:41

Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun

Speaker 445:46

Uh

Speaker 445:51

Double dumb.

Presenter45:57

South American Getaway from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kids. So it's time to cast you away, Monica. We will of course give you the books to take with you, the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one more of your choice. What would you like? I'd really like to learn to interact with my environment.

Presenter46:13

And I think I would like an encyclopedia or some kind of instruction book of flora and fauna. I'm gonna miss Velma so much that if there were other animals on the island that I could maybe not to be too Dr Doolittle about it, but that I could maybe interact with or become friends with or even slightly train. And also, my mum used to on her window sill

Presenter46:40

She always used to have an aloe vera plant in the kitchen.

Presenter46:43

So, that if ever she burnt herself, she could break off a bit of the plant and put it on her skin.

Presenter46:50

I'm really fascinated.

Presenter46:52

Actually, having been to the Amazon as well and had a little tour of different plants, and there's one that you can chew, and it makes you go numb, and different properties of different plants that could maybe help me and maybe the animals as well. I would really love that. Well, it sounds like the island might make a botanist out of you. Yes, you can join the family business. Perfect. You can also have a luxury item, of course. What will that be? I've given this a lot of thought, and I would like to have somewhere to get the sound off, but also.

Speaker 247:10

Yeah.

Presenter47:22

What I'd really like is

Presenter47:25

A walk-in wardrobe, but if it could be slightly magic, it doesn't have to be on the island all the time. It could just appear there at certain times. Mr. Ben style.

Monica Dolan47:34

Yeah.

Speaker 447:34

Mr. B

Presenter47:35

Yeah. I know I'm not allowed a shopkeeper or shopkeeper's assistant, but um if it was a walking wardrobe and I think psychologically it would be really important to have something to look forward to. Oh, yeah. So if when I go into it

Presenter47:52

There could be a cold glass of champagne on the dressing table.

Presenter47:56

And every day, if there could be a new outfit, then at least I'd might, even if it was AI, I'd have the feeling that someone was thinking about me and I'd have something to look forward to every day. I love this luxury. Love it for you, Monica. Fantastic. So, chill champagne in a fresh outfit every day in a fabulous walk-in wardrobe. Yes, and then I could, yeah, consider it done. It's yours. Oh, thank you. Genius. And finally, if you had to save just one of the eight discs that we've shared with us today, which would you rush to grab first?

Monica Dolan48:18

Oh, thank you.

Presenter48:27

It would have to be Love and Affection by Joe Norma Trading. I can see myself.

Presenter48:34

in my different outfit every night, having my champagne, throwing my head back and

Presenter48:39

being under the stars and dancing to that with Joan.

Presenter48:43

Perfection. Monica Doolan, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter48:59

Hello, it was lovely to chat to Monica and hope she's very happy on her island with many visitations from her magic wardrobe. There are more than 2,000 programmes in our archive that you can listen to, including the writer James Graham, who created Sherwood, the actor Leslie Manville is in our archive too, along with two of Monica's favourite musicians, Paul Weller and Joan Armitrading. You can hear all of those programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our own Desert Island Disc's website. The studio manager for today's programme was Bob Nettles, the executive production coordinator was Susie Roylance, the content editor was Mugabe Turia and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Join me next time when my guest will be the comedian Harry Hill.

Speaker 250:04

Hello, I'm Helen.

Monica Dolan50:05

And I'm Omadi Nucci.

Speaker 250:06

We're the hosts of BBC Radio for Strong Message Here, and over the summer we are bringing you a series of short episodes called Strong Message Here, Strong Recommend. Amando, what is a Strong Recommend?

Monica Dolan50:17

It's something we recommend strongly from the cultural recommendations. It could be a book, it could be a T V show, it could be a play, it could be a it could be a

Speaker 250:29

It could be a video game, and if I have anything to do with it, it will be a video game.

Monica Dolan50:33

It could be not necessarily something that's just out this week or just out now. For example, I will be recommending Richard II by a writer called William Shakespeare.

Speaker 250:41

Ah, I've I hear big things ahead for him. I'll be talking about taxonomy, I'll be talking about Elden Ring, I'll be talking about why it's worth standing just off Oxford Street at 9 p.m. this summer.

Monica Dolan50:50

So that's strong message here, strong recommend. It's a shorter programme with a longer title, and you can get it now on BBC Sounds.