Cyndi Lauper

Speaker 10:00

Uh

Speaker 10:01

BBC Sound

Cyndi Lauper0:02

Music

Speaker 10:03

Radio podcasts.

Presenter0:05

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is the singer, songwriter, and activist Cindy Lauper. She burst onto the scene in 1983 with her album She's So Unusual, and she really was an explosion of colour and joy with a look and sound that were equal parts spirit and skill. Her dressing-up box aesthetic inspired a million look-alikes. Her own inspirations were more esoteric. She draped herself in thrift store petticoats, pasted Van Gogh's Starry Night to the soles of her high-heeled shoes, recruited Annie Leibovitz to shoot the album cover, and insisted that the instrumentation on the record's centerpiece, Girls Just Wanna Have Fun, should evoke the Coney Island Fairground she'd grown up visiting. The exuberant catchiness of that track and the soaring success of those that followed belied the years she'd spent struggling to become an overnight success.

Presenter1:33

She's sold over fifty million records, won two Grammys, and her debut album was the first by a female artist to spawn four consecutive US top five singles.

Presenter1:43

She also won an Emmy as an actress and then took on Broadway, composing the music and lyrics for the internationally successful and Tony Award-winning musical Kinky Boots. Her activism, inspired by her own experiences of homelessness and misogyny, has seen her testify before Congress and been honoured by the UN. She was unusual. She still is. She says, The truth is, you always have to listen to what's inside. Not the narrative, not the naysayers, not the gatekeepers. There's always a way around the gate. Always. Cindy Lauper, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Hey, how you doing?

Cyndi Lauper2:18

Uh

Presenter2:19

I need an umbrella. It's too hot. You're already too hot on the island with the sun. Don't worry, there's an umbrella available. There you go. There you go.

Cyndi Lauper2:26

Vega.

Presenter2:27

So Cindy, you've recently been back on the road for a farewell world tour. It began in twenty twenty four, almost forty years since your first big arena shows. I wonder how it's been for you saying goodbye to fans. Has it been emotional?

Presenter2:39

I finally got

Cyndi Lauper2:41

What to do?

Cyndi Lauper2:42

This wonderful show with this wonderful artistic director Brian Burke, it's not spinal tap'cause it started to turn into spinal tap.

Presenter2:52

There's a sweet spot, isn't there, that you've got to hit before you

Cyndi Lauper2:55

Before you get there. Well, when I first started, I wanted to fly across the audience, but I wanted a cherry picker. You know, I wanted to be like the Rolling Stones, right? Or Tina Turner. She had a cherry picker. Why can't I

Cyndi Lauper3:10

They said, you know, you can't afford the cherry picker, but, you know, we can do a garbage pail.

Presenter3:16

But but

Cyndi Lauper3:16

Yeah.

Presenter3:16

You're also ahead of your time, Cindy. As you're describing, there's always been this incredibly strong visual element and these esoteric inspirations to the work that you do, and you're still carrying that on in your live shows today. But tell me from your perspective, you know, you create this spectacle for the audience. What's it like looking out? Who's coming to your farewell shows?

Cyndi Lauper3:16

Error.

Cyndi Lauper3:36

My husband came to five of them.

Cyndi Lauper3:39

and he started to take pictures.

Cyndi Lauper3:42

of people coming in.

Cyndi Lauper3:44

Everybody, all different kinds of people, all ages.

Cyndi Lauper3:49

And it's a safe place to come and be together and dance and laugh and cry and feel hopeful and happy when you leave. And that is what I'm trying to do.

Presenter4:04

Yeah.

Presenter4:04

We're going to be listening to your tracks today, Cindy, that you've chosen to take to the island. It must have been difficult narrowing them down to eight. What's your first choice? What have you gone for? Why are you taking it with you?

Cyndi Lauper4:15

Well, the first music that I remember was the music my mother played us.

Cyndi Lauper4:20

And, um, she loved classical music.

Cyndi Lauper4:24

She would play this music, and I remember this very clearly. She had bought a new stereo.

Cyndi Lauper4:31

And in those days, you know, a stereo was like

Cyndi Lauper4:35

It was like a Victrolla. It was like this and it was a portable, so it opened up, and when it opened up, those were the speakers. And this is a record

Cyndi Lauper4:45

Debussy's prelude to The Afternoon of a Fawn. And I remember.

Cyndi Lauper4:51

Hearing it.

Cyndi Lauper4:53

And the melody

Cyndi Lauper4:54

was stunning.

Cyndi Lauper4:56

And I even said to myself,

Cyndi Lauper4:58

Mom, sometimes when you hear this stuff, is it so beautiful that it just makes you cry? And she said, Yes, that's what music can do. And then she always shared with us like that. And this was one of the first things that I remembered.

Presenter6:20

Debussy, prelude to the Afternoon of a Fawn, performed by the Orchestre National de Lyons.

Presenter6:27

Cindy Lauper, you were born the second of three children to Fred and Katrine in nineteen fifty three, and initially you grew up in Brooklyn. What are your memories of that neighborhood?

Presenter6:36

To me it was

Cyndi Lauper6:38

Well, yeah, it was a strange kid. It was very magical. It was a little like Shakespeare.'Cause, you know, she kept taking us to the Shakespeare festivals'cause they were free. And museums. She loved all of that, didn't she? Yeah, yeah. I mean, sometimes, like, when I was five, you know, you'd be walking on that hard floor and be like, Oh, I wanna go home

Presenter6:50

And she loved all of that, didn't she?

Cyndi Lauper6:58

No, you should look at these pictures.

Presenter6:59

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper7:00

Yeah.

Presenter7:00

So you was saying bro

Cyndi Lauper7:00

Sam you were seeing bro

Cyndi Lauper7:04

Wasn't like Romeo and Juliet.

Cyndi Lauper7:07

They're very blue collar. They're women pulling wash in.

Cyndi Lauper7:11

The sheets looked like sails.

Cyndi Lauper7:14

I was blown away by the women's version of Glam. They would also copy the

Presenter7:21

Stars. So what were they wearing? Are we talking like the heels and the bouffants and the eyeliner and everything? Red lipstick dot

Cyndi Lauper7:29

White hair

Cyndi Lauper7:30

And a cigarette dangling sometimes, you know, and they'd be cha-cha and over there to the and you know, and and then

Presenter7:32

You know, and they

Presenter7:34

Yeah.

Speaker 27:34

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper7:38

There was the big church.

Cyndi Lauper7:40

You know, everybody had to go to church, you know. St. Mary Gates of Heaven, but sometimes it it felt like the gates of hell, but you know, what can you do? And they used to have flags like by the grocery store. So it was always to me like a little celebration. You had the women that were all dressed up coming out of the beauty parlour and you had the flags, all different colors, and it was a colorful pl

Presenter8:02

Cindy, I want to ask about your mum, because I feel like I've already been introduced to her via your videos. I've seen her and your aunts on screen in several of them, but I know she was a huge influence on you, so tell me more about her. It sounds like she was creative and interested in the arts and music.

Cyndi Lauper8:19

music. And she was very patient too, because I was a really, really odd

Cyndi Lauper8:26

Kid.

Presenter8:27

Then what would

Cyndi Lauper8:27

Wait.

Presenter8:27

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper8:28

In every way.

Cyndi Lauper8:30

My idea of play was listening to her records. She had musicals.

Cyndi Lauper8:38

And because there were so many different voices,

Cyndi Lauper8:43

It's what I did all day.

Cyndi Lauper8:44

I would listen and imitate them, and then I would listen again and imitate them. And I had it down, you know, but this was how I spent my time. My father also loved books, and he would always have instruments all over the place. What kind of instruments? Like he wanted to play xylophone, so there'd be a xylophone in the porch, you know.

Presenter8:58

What kind of instrument?

Speaker 18:59

Like he wants to

Cyndi Lauper9:04

and he would play harmonica. Unfortunately for my dad, you know, they lived through a strange time. They lived through depression. and wars.

Presenter9:14

Did you have a sense of that as a little girl that you were seeing parents who maybe hadn't fulfilled their ambitions, their dreams?

Cyndi Lauper9:29

He loved tinkering and playing this and playing that and his idea was when he retired he wanted a he had an organ and he was gonna play in a bar. What did he do for a living? What what was he doing instead?

Presenter9:38

What did he do for

Presenter9:40

Uh

Cyndi Lauper9:40

He was a shipping clerk at Bul of a Watch, which is where he met my mom.

Presenter9:45

I want to make room for your second choice today. Tell us about this next track.

Cyndi Lauper9:47

They tell us.

Cyndi Lauper9:49

My mother loved to sit and talk and be with us, and

Cyndi Lauper9:54

She would play different music. So there was this wonderful album, Satch Does Fats, and it was uh Louis Armstrong, of course. And

Cyndi Lauper10:05

We were girls, we had to do chores, so we'd separate all the clothes. But we were all together, and then she'd play this music, and we'd dance wildly.

Cyndi Lauper10:15

I remember how wildly we would dance and how much fun this was. And this.

Cyndi Lauper10:20

kind of

Cyndi Lauper10:22

banter. But like when I did the Frank Sinatra thing with, um, Santa Claus coming to town.

Presenter10:30

Yes, you collaborated and it was

Cyndi Lauper10:30

Well, I was in the studio.

Presenter10:33

You work together.

Cyndi Lauper10:34

In the studio.

Cyndi Lauper10:36

If it's already sung and it was sung, you do more than you need. So I did a lot of the banter stuff that I learned listening from Satchma when I was little. So that's why when he says he sees you when you're sun w really? You know, because

Cyndi Lauper10:54

And how did that go down?

Presenter10:55

Damn.

Cyndi Lauper10:55

Nice.

Presenter10:55

Tana

Cyndi Lauper10:56

I mean that saves mixing.

Presenter10:56

That takes Lexington.

Cyndi Lauper10:58

He thought I was so disrespectful, but what I didn't think to say what it really was now I know should have been a little letter to him say

Cyndi Lauper11:10

Dear mister Snadra, in no way was I being disrespectful. When you go in the studio you do more than what you need.

Cyndi Lauper11:20

I didn't know what you were gonna choose, so I did more, so you could choose the best things that you like to put on the record. And that kind of banter was just an influence that I learned as a young kid listening to Louis Armstrong. But of course I didn't say that.

Cyndi Lauper11:40

I just got oh my god.

Cyndi Lauper11:42

He hates you now, you know. But I don't care. They knew what they signed up for. Well, I don't know. I guess so. Anyway, this song is fun, and he had such spirit. And this was before I knew anything about anything.

Cyndi Lauper12:14

Hey Pops, what's wrong, Daddy? You look like something's bothering you. Say nothing bothering me, honey. That a piece of roast beef can't fix up. Well, I'll tell you one thing, Pops. A man works hard, then comes on home. Expects to find stew with that fine ham bone. He opens the door, then starts to look in.

Speaker 112:37

Say, woman, what's this stuff you cooking?

Speaker 212:37

Same.

Speaker 212:42

Now then And no, potatoes are just seen right, they're like a green tomato.

Speaker 112:45

Damn.

Speaker 212:51

Here I'm waiting, half potato, with all that meat and no potato.

Presenter13:00

Louis Armstrong and his all-stars. All that meat and no potatoes. Cindy Lauper, your mum had a a beautiful singing voice. She actually was offered a scholarship to go to school and study music and sing.

Cyndi Lauper13:10

And

Cyndi Lauper13:13

Yeah, well.

Cyndi Lauper13:15

That didn't go along with my grandfather's plans. I mean, he literally told her only whores go to school.

Cyndi Lauper13:22

in Manhattan.

Cyndi Lauper13:23

I actually found her eighth grade picture, her graduation.

Speaker 113:26

A graduate.

Cyndi Lauper13:27

And all the kids have a look on their face but hers?

Cyndi Lauper13:31

Those eyes

Cyndi Lauper13:33

They were heartbroken.

Cyndi Lauper13:35

And grown-up

Cyndi Lauper13:37

Always heard these stories about

Cyndi Lauper13:40

Her friends went to California. They found a job for her and sent a letter back. My grandfather found the letter, tore it up every turn.

Cyndi Lauper13:49

The women were disenfranchised and cut off from any kind of life, but being around the family and, you know, free domestic help, taking care of your parents when they get old, which is a nice thing, but not if they have talent and maybe they should have an opportunity to actually enjoy life.

Presenter14:11

Cindy, let me ask you more about your mum's story. You mentioned the dynamics with your grandfather. Sadly, they played out in her marriages as well because your parents' marriage was unhappy and they divorced when you were just five.

Cyndi Lauper14:25

Uh

Cyndi Lauper14:26

They fought a lot. Okay. And I used to watch and I think what happened was, you know, remember in the late forties and the early fifties, it was very you'd go to movies and you see these women throwing dishes and breaking dishes and that was like, oh, look at that

Cyndi Lauper14:43

She used to throw dishes against the wall, and I was watching, and I think a shard went in my head.

Cyndi Lauper14:50

When they were fighting.

Cyndi Lauper14:52

and they rushed me to the hospital and I had a little score.

Cyndi Lauper14:56

But they felt it was not good for them to be together. It wasn't safe. And with if they couldn't control their tempers,

Presenter14:59

But

Cyndi Lauper15:03

They shouldn't do this.

Presenter15:05

So they split. She remarried, and that wasn't a happy marriage either. She was a woman.

Cyndi Lauper15:11

Love and we wanted her to be happy.

Cyndi Lauper15:13

But unfortunately

Cyndi Lauper15:16

You know, he had a great sense of humor, but he was also very disturbed.

Cyndi Lauper15:20

It's kinda like living with Don Nichols and Freddy Krueger, kinda all together. Frightening for you?

Cyndi Lauper15:26

Well

Cyndi Lauper15:28

Then you would go to school with the nuns, and they were pretty scared.

Presenter15:31

Rejo.

Presenter15:33

So, your mum sent you away to school, you and your sister Ellen, because she was scared for you. She was trying to keep you away from your stepfather. Yeah. Why?

Cyndi Lauper15:36

Because

Cyndi Lauper15:41

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper15:43

Well, he threatened threatened a lot of bad things.

Cyndi Lauper15:47

So he threatens to beat up her parents, rape her children. I was like, oh yeah, he's he's a keeper.

Cyndi Lauper15:56

No matter what

Cyndi Lauper15:57

If the police came, they would come domestic violence leave. They don't care.

Presenter16:03

This must have meant for you though, because you started, I think, writing songs when you were about twelve or so, getting it te so even younger.

Cyndi Lauper16:09

So even you

Presenter16:12

Music must have felt even more of an escape if home is difficult and school is really challenging. That must have been so vivid, such a bright spot.

Cyndi Lauper16:16

That must have been silver

Cyndi Lauper16:20

It was well, you my dad, he got Ellen a guitar.

Cyndi Lauper16:25

And then when she graduated eighth grade,

Cyndi Lauper16:28

He got her an electric guitar like a baby strat and a twin amp.

Cyndi Lauper16:33

which then we had a group.

Cyndi Lauper16:36

And I saying

Presenter16:37

So this is two of you? Was you was your little brother in it?

Cyndi Lauper16:39

Me no, me, my sister and her friend Diane Andromeda.

Cyndi Lauper16:44

was one of the girls from Howard Beach.

Presenter16:46

Well, on that note, Cindy Lawbra, I think we should have some more music. Your third choice today, what's it gonna be? Okay, well. Italians

Cyndi Lauper16:53

They love Puccini. And my mother kept playing this stuff, you know, and it was always like, Mom, you know it doesn't work out for her in the end, right? She dies, or it's not good for her. It's always bad for the woman. She loved this aria from Madam Butterfly one fine day. The greatest voice of the century, female to me, one of them.

Cyndi Lauper17:19

Is Maria Collis?

Cyndi Lauper17:21

And I think she's extraordinary because of the way she would be loud and then soft and then full and then almost like talking and the control and the beauty and her story, which was so tragic because her life was like an opera, but her voice was incredible.

Speaker 217:53

We must be afraid before.

Speaker 218:01

God brace the mail, God feed them all.

Cyndi Lauper18:12

Uh

Presenter18:45

One fine day we shall see from Pacini's Madame Butterfly sung by Baria Callas with the Orchestra del Teatro alla Scala de Milano conducted by Herbert von Carrion. Cindy Lope, you left home at 17 moving in with your sister Ellen. She wasn't much older than you and you didn't have any money but it does sound like she created a really nurturing environment between her and her friends who I think lived.

Cyndi Lauper18:58

Wait.

Speaker 118:59

Mm-hmm.

Cyndi Lauper19:09

And they were there.

Presenter19:10

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper19:10

Very kind to us. I just kept failing and failing and failing and failing and then Ellen, when Ellen graduated and left, I just was like.

Cyndi Lauper19:19

lost and

Presenter19:20

Well, it must have been hard being because, you know, she she left home and you were left behind in the house.

Cyndi Lauper19:25

At one point

Cyndi Lauper19:27

She said, Get your stuff and come here right now'cause it wasn't safe anymore. I just remember that school was it was hard. I was talented in art, but it it didn't work out and there was a lot of stoners and whatever and they were just in this class and I I just felt like great. I woke up in hell.

Cyndi Lauper19:48

you know, finally I did leave school, but they said

Cyndi Lauper19:52

I was most likely to die or become an artist. They had no idea what was going to become of me.

Presenter19:58

There was something in the yearbook where they'd said you were the most likely to fail. That they would even vote on that uploading in the year book.

Cyndi Lauper20:04

No, no, no, no, no, no. That was a joke. That was a joke. That I was most likely to die. But still, what's his the head of the art department said.

Presenter20:06

That was a joke.

Presenter20:09

But still.

Cyndi Lauper20:13

She's either gonna be an artist or she's she's gonna die. One or the other. She's gotta pull it together. Yeah.

Presenter20:20

So I mean obviously glad that it worked out and you became an artist, but at the time, what did it feel like hearing that?

Cyndi Lauper20:26

I didn't care. I kinda liked the fact that people thought I was a little craygray. What was the dream for you?

Presenter20:30

What was the dream for you back then? Did you want to be an artist yourself? Did you think that was a possibility?

Cyndi Lauper20:36

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper20:38

But I gave up.

Cyndi Lauper20:40

And I tried really hard to fit into the world and get a job.

Cyndi Lauper20:45

And, you know, I just got fired a lot, you know. What were you doing? What kind of thing? Well, you know, the whole office thing. I was a gal Friday the thirteenth and I was awful, even though I tried, but I I sucked.

Presenter21:02

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper21:02

So and

Presenter21:03

Your career was almost over before it began because you also lost your voice for a year after you just started out as a singer. What happened exactly and and how did you get it back?

Cyndi Lauper21:14

You sing in these bands. You have to learn how to perform and stuff. So I would be singing, and they'd have the 200-watt martial amps right by me, and the cymbal where the guy would be hitting it right by your head. So you're singing like singing in this little fart box that was supposed to be the monitor. So basically.

Presenter21:28

So you're singing Loud and

Cyndi Lauper21:36

And they're like And I remember at one point I asked one of the guitar players in the second band to please turn down and he just ignored me'cause I had to sing over him. So I was playing cow belt, you know, with the broken drumstick. So I jabbed him. And then he got really upset. And he stopped playing. And I said, Thank you.

Cyndi Lauper21:59

I'd love to hear some more music before

Presenter22:00

Our fourth choice to do.

Cyndi Lauper22:02

Okay, well this is the song.

Presenter22:02

Okay, but this

Cyndi Lauper22:04

that my grandmother heard so many times. And you know, you always think it's the movie star that's doing it, but it isn't. Monnie Nixon. And she was the standin' and Deborah Carr got to lip sync to her. These songs

Cyndi Lauper22:22

were how I learned to sing. I played this album so much, this getting to know you and the king and the album of The King and I, right?

Cyndi Lauper22:36

So much that my grandmother, who lived upstairs, she just came downstairs, she took, she lifted the needle off my little red record player, picked up the record, didn't say a word, and just walked back upstairs. And that was the end of that record. I never saw that record again because she just couldn't take it. And my mom, God bless her, everything was like okay, you know, with her.

Cyndi Lauper23:06

Getting to know you, getting to know all about you, getting to like you. Getting to hope you like me

Presenter23:22

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper23:22

Uh

Presenter23:22

Getting to know you, putting it my way, but nicely you are precisely

Presenter23:35

Getting to Know You from the film soundtrack To The King and I sung by Marnie Nixon.

Presenter23:42

Cindy, you eventually left the band Blue Angel and started working as a solo artist. Your first album, She's So Unusual, was a huge hit. You'd spent your twenties grafting to get musical success. Once you got it, how was it? How did you find fame?

Presenter23:58

Where

Cyndi Lauper23:59

So I still think there needs to be that book, How to Be Famous for Dummies, because

Cyndi Lauper24:07

You really it's a shocker.

Presenter24:09

Look back then. I mean, obviously your aesthetic is still central to your art today, but that was one of the first things that made such a big impression on everyone. This colourful hair shaved at the side, you know, corsets and petticoats, copied a million times. These days, any star, any artist will be working with it. You know, stylists, makeup artists. Was it like that back then, or was it more DIY?

Presenter24:34

You know

Cyndi Lauper24:35

I worked at a a vintage clothing store.

Cyndi Lauper24:38

And I work there because I shop there.

Cyndi Lauper24:41

And I figured.

Cyndi Lauper24:42

Why not work where you love the clothes?

Cyndi Lauper24:45

And of course I put a lot of stuff on layaway and after a while it was too much. I wasn't allowed to layaway the clothes anymore.

Cyndi Lauper24:53

But

Cyndi Lauper24:55

I used to love to dress people when they came in.

Cyndi Lauper24:58

And

Cyndi Lauper25:00

the owner of the store when I got

Cyndi Lauper25:03

You know,'cause a lot of other stars would come in and they'd ask for something and she'd put something together for them and bag it.

Cyndi Lauper25:11

and then they'd go and use it and they would be the stylist.

Cyndi Lauper25:14

And I I said to her one time, I said, You know, don't worry.

Cyndi Lauper25:19

When I do my album cover you'll be my stylist. And was she? Yeah, of course she was. For years we worked together.

Presenter25:26

Yeah.

Presenter25:27

So, you were adapting clothing to make it your own, you were, you know, changing styles, and you did that with your music too, and you know, the instrumentation. That's a hugely successful album. You know, single after single hit big, and of course, girls just want to have fun was the centerpiece. But originally, this was a track that you weren't keen to do. You had to adapt it and make it your own, make it fit you. How did you do it?

Cyndi Lauper25:51

When I was in Blue Angel I learned a lot from John Torrey, who helped me.

Cyndi Lauper25:56

Understand that different keys would make your voice sound completely different.

Cyndi Lauper26:03

And then you would take on a different personality, different spirit, whatever. I started doing that, and I also realized my grandmother and my mother, they were tailors. So they could take clothing that were hand-me-downs, pull them apart, put them back together on you, and it looked perfect like it was made for you. So I started to feel like that.

Cyndi Lauper26:27

kind of mentality.

Cyndi Lauper26:29

Is the same for songs, isn't it? And so.

Cyndi Lauper26:33

You take it apart and put it back together so that it sounded like

Cyndi Lauper26:38

It's you. But you also, Cindy, changed the lyric. Yeah, absolutely, and edited some things that didn't make sense. They wanted me to make a female anthem. They just didn't realize that they talked to somebody who burnt a training bra at the first demonstration at the Alice in Wonderland statue in the sixties. So originally the f

Presenter26:58

The original track, I think, you know, it's a son singing to his father. Yeah, how lovely.

Cyndi Lauper27:02

Yeah, the idea, nudge, nudge. We are the fortunate ones'cause girls they want to have fun with us. Why not? You know, and why not? That makes sense. But it didn't make sense

Cyndi Lauper27:14

As a woman, to sing that, like, what am I singing about?

Cyndi Lauper27:18

It needed

Cyndi Lauper27:19

A new spirit

Cyndi Lauper27:21

and a new arrangement

Cyndi Lauper27:23

We did it and it

Presenter27:24

Worked. Cindy, your mum was also in the video for Girls Just Wanna Have Fun. In fact, she was in several of your pop videos.

Cyndi Lauper27:32

There was something so.

Cyndi Lauper27:34

fantastic about her on film. Something so vulnerable that I didn't realize, you know. And I put her on film and she's photogenic and she's doing this thing. And she's never done anything in the video. Well, she just did it because she wanted spend more time with

Presenter27:44

And she's never just green in the video.

Cyndi Lauper27:50

Yeah.

Presenter27:50

What was it like for her to be able to share in your success like that?

Cyndi Lauper27:53

Well, she actually was really shy, and I realized I was pushing her to do things she didn't want to do.

Cyndi Lauper28:00

She just wanted to spend time with me and play.

Cyndi Lauper28:03

And to her being in the videos was just playin'.

Cyndi Lauper28:06

I want to hear some more music. Cindy, it's time for your fifth choice today. What have we got? Well, when the Beatles came over.

Cyndi Lauper28:14

It was mayhem my cousin Winter. She gave us for Christmas Meet the Beatles. So when they came to America one of the times I was eleven by that time, so I was old enough, I guess, for her.

Cyndi Lauper28:30

and me and my sister and her friend Diane.

Cyndi Lauper28:34

She drove us'cause she worked at the airport too, as a waitress. So she drove us to a spot

Cyndi Lauper28:41

where she knew the cars driving from Kennedy Airport would pass. So she dropped us on this island. She said, Do not move from here

Cyndi Lauper28:51

I'm going to be there and I'm going to come back in a little while.

Cyndi Lauper28:57

Here comes the car. I start screaming. I had my eyes closed, and all of a sudden, I opened my eyes and I saw the back of their heads. And I said, What a jerk! What did I do? I missed them. And the only time I really got to see them really close up was one time I was at my dentist, like recently.

Cyndi Lauper29:18

I turn around and there's Paul McCartney right behind me. What did you say to him? Well, I was at the dentist. I didn't know what to say, so I said, Nice teeth. I didn't know what to say. You know, I'm thinking your teeth look great.

Cyndi Lauper29:31

I don't know. And then he said, oh, let's hug it out. So I figured he was used to people.

Cyndi Lauper29:38

Getting Pull McCartney around him. Can't be happy. You know, but he.

Presenter29:40

Yeah, yeah, whatever.

Speaker 129:41

Yeah.

Presenter29:41

You know.

Cyndi Lauper29:42

Very gracious.

Cyndi Lauper29:45

It's a funny thing about the Beatles because also my sister and I, you know, like every kid, we were acting out the Beatles. But what I learned

Cyndi Lauper29:56

as a a a musician.

Cyndi Lauper29:59

I learned harmony.

Cyndi Lauper30:01

And I harmonized with my sister. Ellen always had to be Paul. I had to be George. She was Paul.

Presenter30:06

She's a good idea.

Cyndi Lauper30:10

And that was fine.

Cyndi Lauper30:12

But I learned the harmonies.

Cyndi Lauper30:14

And

Cyndi Lauper30:15

It just trained my ear differently.

Speaker 230:21

No.

Cyndi Lauper30:21

Oh yeah!

Speaker 230:22

Tell you something.

Speaker 230:25

I think you'll understand.

Speaker 230:28

Can I say that something?

Speaker 230:32

I wanna hold a hand

Speaker 230:36

I wanna hold your hand.

Speaker 230:40

I wanna hold your hand. Oh, please say to me.

Presenter30:47

The Beatles and I Wanna Hold Your Hand. Cindy, your second album was another success. The stand out single True Colours resonated with many people, but found a particular connection with the LGBTQ community. Why did that song resonate so deeply with people?

Cyndi Lauper31:04

Pooh.

Cyndi Lauper31:06

There are certain songs that are healing songs.

Cyndi Lauper31:09

And I in my life had the privilege of being part of two songs.

Cyndi Lauper31:17

that have helped communities over the years.

Cyndi Lauper31:21

And

Cyndi Lauper31:23

The one

Cyndi Lauper31:24

thing was at the time.

Cyndi Lauper31:27

In America they were not talking about AIDS.

Cyndi Lauper31:30

and AIDS was very prevalent and people were dying.

Cyndi Lauper31:34

And as for the

Presenter31:35

You lost friends, I know, during the friend

Cyndi Lauper31:36

And I had a friend who, if people were more educated and they understood about the disease more,

Cyndi Lauper31:45

They would not have treated these people this way.

Cyndi Lauper31:48

And I was always worried about my friend. I was worried if I came to see my friend, am I going to kill him with my germs? Is he going to kill me? Am I going somewhere else? What am I doing? Nobody's telling us about this thing.

Cyndi Lauper32:01

And then she wants me to

Cyndi Lauper32:04

to write a song for him the same way that Deion Warwick and Elton John, they sang That's What Friends Are For. So I wrote Boy Blue, but I also sang True Colors. I sang True Colors for us who survived him.

Cyndi Lauper32:19

for him because he was really a good, good kid and a young adult.

Cyndi Lauper32:26

And he

Cyndi Lauper32:27

He never felt good about himself because you're made to feel horrible about yourself, and that's what makes these youth more vulnerable.

Cyndi Lauper32:36

And how was he

Presenter32:37

How old was he when he died?

Cyndi Lauper32:38

24.

Presenter32:39

20

Cyndi Lauper32:41

I was so saddened by it, but at one point I was singing True Colors and some guy came up to me from the crowd with a flag, like the new rainbow flag. Did you know what it was then? That would have been

Presenter32:55

Yeah, I knew it was a flat.

Cyndi Lauper32:57

And he said, You know, I designed this because I was inspired by your song.

Cyndi Lauper33:03

So that was the pride thing.

Cyndi Lauper33:05

put it on, and after that moment I knew that Gregory got his wish.

Cyndi Lauper33:11

There was the song.

Cyndi Lauper33:13

that I sang for him.

Cyndi Lauper33:16

And then we started doing things like

Cyndi Lauper33:19

Creating a fund, helping.

Cyndi Lauper33:22

And she

Presenter33:22

And trying to create change. And what does it mean to you, Cindy, to see other activists take up your song, your lyrics, your your music, and to kind of literally put them on a banner? You know, to see those banners at the women's march saying girls just want to have fundamental rights.

Cyndi Lauper33:40

When I saw that, I cried a little because I used to get in a lot of trouble for talking about women's rights. When I saw that, I called up my friends that I started the True Colors Fund with and I said, let's start the Girls Just Want to Have Fundamental Rights Fund. Come on, which helps women's health, safe and legal abortion, prenatal care, postnatal care, cancer screenings, and everything having to do with women's health.

Cyndi Lauper34:09

promotion of women. So we do that in we raise money and fund organizations all over the world.

Presenter34:18

Cindy, alongside your singing career, you've also worked as an actor. You won an Emmy for Outstanding Guest Actress when you appeared in the TV sitcom Mad About You, and you actually met your husband David, who's an actor on the set of a movie. The two of you were married by the architect of rock and roll himself, Little Richard. He officiated your wedding. Wasn't it great here? Please tell me everything.

Cyndi Lauper34:37

Please tell me everything. And we were planning the wedding and I was trying to do the album and I got two licenses that year. I was so excited. I learned how to drive and

Cyndi Lauper34:50

I got a wedding license. I had two licenses. And, um

Cyndi Lauper34:55

I was thinking, David is very thoughtful, was walking around and he said, How about we get married in the friends' meeting house?'Cause we're going to bring our friends together, right? I said, That's a great idea. I said, How about we have the greatest singer ever?

Cyndi Lauper35:11

'Cause I come from the school

Cyndi Lauper35:18

And of course David's father didn't believe we were really married, that it was legal, but it was. And we just had a wonderful time. We got married there. We rented a double-decker bus to take everybody to the restaurant. Of course, a Sicilian restaurant. And we ate Sicilian food. And I actually ate at my wedding. My mother was shocked, but I had the black ink sauce.

Presenter35:42

How did bringing all those friends together go? You know, David said you were bringing your friends together. I'm imagining your mum, your aunts, little Richard, Patty LaBelle. What was the reception like?

Cyndi Lauper35:49

Little red.

Cyndi Lauper35:54

Well, you know, Will Richard's shy and with a lot of Italian people.

Cyndi Lauper35:59

So they were learning.

Speaker 136:00

Yeah.

Presenter36:01

Yeah.

Speaker 136:01

But

Cyndi Lauper36:04

I love Patty and her uh keyboard player.

Cyndi Lauper36:07

and my family, and the people that were close to me.

Presenter36:12

Cindy, let's have some more music. Your sixth choice today. What are you taking to the island next and why?

Cyndi Lauper36:12

Send it.

Cyndi Lauper36:16

Okay, this is an important thing.

Cyndi Lauper36:20

Now when I

Cyndi Lauper36:21

Decided to take these this class at in the Leni Tristana School of Jazz.

Cyndi Lauper36:27

I studied Billie Holiday, but also an assignment was not just Billy, but Billy singing with Lester Young.

Cyndi Lauper36:36

And if you listen,

Cyndi Lauper36:39

to them singing together.

Cyndi Lauper36:41

It is so extraordinary. This woman, Billie Holliday, to me

Cyndi Lauper36:48

Rote modern phrasing.

Cyndi Lauper36:51

She was extraordinary. Now, I know that I don't have Joni Mitchell on here.

Cyndi Lauper36:57

But that'll be

Cyndi Lauper36:58

Another time, but obviously she was a big influence. But Billy

Cyndi Lauper37:03

was the foundation.

Cyndi Lauper37:05

of me never to be afraid.

Cyndi Lauper37:08

of the snare drum again.

Cyndi Lauper37:11

and to breathe and to hear interior rhythm.

Cyndi Lauper37:14

And that is very prominent on this. Just have a listen to how wonderful these two are answering each other.

Cyndi Lauper37:24

And both in the moonlight and you

Cyndi Lauper37:30

Wouldn't that be heaven or heaven just for you?

Speaker 237:33

Oh yeah.

Cyndi Lauper37:39

A soft breeze on a June night and new

Speaker 237:44

Uh

Cyndi Lauper37:46

What a perfect sentence

Cyndi Lauper37:49

For letting dreams come true.

Presenter37:55

A sailboat in the moonlight Billie Holiday and her orchestra.

Presenter37:59

Cindy Loper, you put your songwriting skills to the test in twenty twelve when you undertook the job of composing music and lyrics for a new show, Kinky Boots. So this was new territory for you. What was it about the project that made you want to get involved?

Cyndi Lauper38:15

He wrote the book and Jerry Mitchell.

Cyndi Lauper38:19

Did the choreography

Presenter38:20

For me. How confident did you feel starting work on the project though? Kinky Boots doing something completely new?

Cyndi Lauper38:28

It's kind of

Presenter38:28

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper38:28

Pissy about the tour I was on. And I said, sure. He said, Sin, how about you watch the movie first? So I said, Okay, okay. So I watched the movie.

Cyndi Lauper38:38

And it was shoes.

Presenter38:39

Again, shoes. They've been a running theme for you since art school when you used to paint shoes instead of canvases. Yeah, well, I was in trouble for that all the time.

Cyndi Lauper38:46

Yeah, yeah.

Cyndi Lauper38:48

Um

Cyndi Lauper38:49

But he said, uh, yeah.

Cyndi Lauper38:53

I said, Amen And I just figured

Cyndi Lauper38:56

They wanted me to write catchy songs. That's what I thought. I thought, Oh, you want catchy songs. I could do that.

Presenter39:04

And your creative efforts were richly rewarded. The show is a huge hit. Won six Tony's, including one for Best Original Score. And we won in Olivia. And in Olivia, too. But you were the first woman to win in the Best Original Score category at the Tony's on your own, by yourself. That was incredible.

Cyndi Lauper39:12

I think we

Cyndi Lauper39:21

That was important.

Presenter39:22

Button to everyone. Yeah, how did it feel when your name was called out?

Cyndi Lauper39:27

Like I always feel if I win and everybody else doesn't.

Cyndi Lauper39:32

I felt like Carvey should have won something.

Cyndi Lauper39:35

because he was the one that w was under his tutelage.

Cyndi Lauper39:40

I was able to do that.

Cyndi Lauper39:41

And, um,

Cyndi Lauper39:43

I learned so much. And to me, honestly, comedy, the reason I love comedy is because it's like music.

Presenter39:54

And it's a

Cyndi Lauper39:54

And there's a rhythm to it.

Presenter39:54

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper39:55

Everything

Presenter39:55

Cindy, it's time for your next piece of music, if you wouldn't mind. Disc number seven. I think this is a band and an artist that you said you were rooting for.

Presenter40:06

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper40:06

Yeah, we were all roading for Blondie. We loved I loved I love her still.

Cyndi Lauper40:13

And I love them. And um, I think that

Cyndi Lauper40:17

This is one of my favorite songs.

Cyndi Lauper40:19

one way or another.

Cyndi Lauper40:21

And

Cyndi Lauper40:22

I even play it now before I go on.

Presenter40:26

Oh, I can imagine this is just right for getting you in the zone because there's self-determination.

Cyndi Lauper40:29

Self-determination.

Presenter40:31

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper40:31

I love this song. I think it's so great. There's a sound.

Cyndi Lauper40:36

There's an idea, there's a brain, it all works, it's fantastic.

Cyndi Lauper40:41

Deborah Harry, I love her, and I love Blondie, and we were rooting for them, and when this came out we all went bonkers.

Presenter40:49

Like a new york.

Cyndi Lauper40:50

York thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were ours. They were from New York.

Presenter40:50

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper41:14

One way or another, I'm gonna find ya, I'm gonna get ya, getcha, getcha, get ya One way or another, I'm gonna hit ya I'm gonna get you, get you, get you, get you

Presenter41:27

Blondie and one way or another. Cindy, you've been in the music industry for many years now. How much do you think things have changed for women in that sector?

Cyndi Lauper41:38

Well

Cyndi Lauper41:39

They change and they don't.

Cyndi Lauper41:41

The fact that

Cyndi Lauper41:43

Taylor Swift had to justify herself.

Cyndi Lauper41:46

I was like, are you kidding? I'm freaking so proud of that young woman. What a good example.

Cyndi Lauper41:53

I'm happy watching all these young women.

Cyndi Lauper41:56

And I know that there'll always be struggles.

Cyndi Lauper41:59

But you just always got to take a step back, and there's always going to be gatekeepers, and just figure out how to get around them. Find like minded people doing similar things that you wo aspire to do.

Cyndi Lauper42:15

and know that there are still artists' collectives.

Cyndi Lauper42:18

that you could join and achieve what it is you want.

Presenter42:22

When you look out at the music scene now and look at the younger artists making music, where do you see your influence, your DNA?

Presenter42:30

Right.

Cyndi Lauper42:31

DNA is just like

Cyndi Lauper42:33

Everyone

Cyndi Lauper42:34

that I learned from. We stand on the shoulders of the people that came before us.

Cyndi Lauper42:40

and the people that come after us will be standing on ours.

Presenter42:43

Thinking about, you know, the generations and what comes after, and obviously you're on this farewell tour at the moment. Have you given much thought to what you like your legacy to be? Is that something that you're interested in?

Presenter42:54

I think

Cyndi Lauper42:55

I think about trying to do the right thing and I think about the music that I make

Cyndi Lauper43:00

That I don't just like I was told one time by a very prominent, very important.

Cyndi Lauper43:07

male figure of the industry.

Cyndi Lauper43:11

That said that we were making disposable music.

Cyndi Lauper43:16

And I took issue with that because I did not make disposable music and I don't do that because the

Cyndi Lauper43:24

You just do the best you can and don't make disposable music or make music that makes people happy.

Cyndi Lauper43:31

Find some songs that help people, and you can leave that behind and do some great work.

Presenter43:37

Cindy, it's almost time to cast you away to the desert islands. How will you cope, do you think, with total isolation?

Presenter43:46

Mm.

Cyndi Lauper43:48

I have no idea.

Presenter43:50

Uh

Cyndi Lauper43:50

Are you good on your own? Are you often on your own? I like to think you are.

Cyndi Lauper43:54

You're on an island.

Cyndi Lauper43:56

There's water.

Cyndi Lauper43:57

There are creatures.

Presenter43:58

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper43:58

Uh

Presenter43:58

Uh

Cyndi Lauper43:58

Uh

Presenter43:58

Not alone. What sort of island are you imagining? What what you picture when you think of your desert island? What's the first thing you'll do when you get there?

Cyndi Lauper44:07

Hmm.

Cyndi Lauper44:08

See if they're making any of those like piña coladas, probably with an umbrella. I like umbrellas.

Presenter44:15

See? Well, you'll have to knock it up yourself, but you never know what materials might be around when you get there. Oh, there you go. Cindy, we'd love one more track before we cast you away to the desert island. The piniculadas are on hold for now.

Cyndi Lauper44:27

To me, this is rock and roll, the epitome of it. Rock and roll is blues.

Cyndi Lauper44:33

Rock and Roll has drums. The thing about this is it's a combination of not just blues, but also the Native American drum beat, which to me is what rock and roll is. Listeners may not know that this is the original version of this track. Yes, it is. This is the original version of Hound Dog.

Cyndi Lauper44:56

And um I think Big Mama Thornton isn't just a blues singer, I think she's a rocker.

Cyndi Lauper45:02

And to me she was the foundation of a lot of stuff that came after.

Cyndi Lauper45:10

Uh

Speaker 245:10

Uh

Cyndi Lauper45:10

Right.

Cyndi Lauper45:13

No

Cyndi Lauper45:15

Which loopin' on my door?

Cyndi Lauper45:18

You not gotta

Speaker 245:20

Ah

Cyndi Lauper45:20

Oh no.

Cyndi Lauper45:22

Where's loving on my door?

Cyndi Lauper45:25

You can wag your tail, but I ain't gonna beat you no more. You told me you were high class, but I can see the land.

Presenter45:40

Big Mama Thornton and Hound Dog. So, Cindy, I'm going to cast you away to the island now. I'll give you the books to take with you, of course. You can have the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book. What would you like?

Cyndi Lauper45:51

Yeah.

Cyndi Lauper45:52

I can read the Bible.

Cyndi Lauper45:54

Um, and I'll take the David Sederis me talk pretty

Presenter45:58

One day

Presenter45:59

It's yours. You can also have a luxury item to make life a little bit more bearable on the desert island. I need.

Speaker 146:03

On the desert island.

Presenter46:05

A luxury hotel. Just one. Ooh, okay. You know it'll be completely unstaffed because you are buttons.

Cyndi Lauper46:12

But it'll have

Presenter46:16

It's an interesting choice. People have taken buildings in the past, they've taken their favorite museums, concert halls. On that basis, as long as it's unstaffed, I can give it to you.

Cyndi Lauper46:22

On that basis.

Cyndi Lauper46:26

See, and I think I could go with that because it'll have everything I need. A piano, I could do my vocals, I could do like I could do whatever. I could write melodies, I could cook.

Cyndi Lauper46:38

I'd have to, you know, go fish.

Cyndi Lauper46:41

You'd have to catch a fish first. I tell you, I can't do it without a luxury hotel, though.

Presenter46:47

Gotta have a luxury Oto. I think it's a clever choice, and it's all yours. And finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you rush to save from the waves?

Cyndi Lauper46:56

Oh my gosh.

Cyndi Lauper46:58

I think that Maria Collis tracked because I don't think

Cyndi Lauper47:02

you could ever get tired of listening to all the colors in her voice.

Cyndi Lauper47:08

Although

Cyndi Lauper47:09

They were all great singers.

Cyndi Lauper47:11

And I love them all for different reasons, but

Cyndi Lauper47:14

Yeah.

Presenter47:14

Such a beautiful way of putting it. Cindy Lauper, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter47:36

Hello, it was lovely to chat to Cindy and hope she's very happy on the island alone in her luxury hotel. What brilliant idea! We've cast away many musicians over the years and there are more than 2,000 programmes in our archive that you can listen to, including Cher, Adele, Debbie Harry and Sir Paul McCartney. You can hear those programmes if you search through BBC Sounds or on our own Desert Island Disc's website. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram. The executive production coordinator was Susie Roylence. The assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Join me next time when my guest will be the conservation biologist Professor Carl Jones.

Speaker 248:42

A new podcast series from BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 248:45

In the first stage of a poltergeist haunting, the entity will confine itself to making noise, as if it's testing its victims.

Speaker 248:56

The Battersea Poltergeist.

Speaker 148:58

My name's Shirley Hitchens. I'm 15 years old. I live with my mum, dad, brother, Gran.

Speaker 149:06

And Donald.

Speaker 249:10

Subscribe to the Battersea Poltergeist.

Speaker 249:12

On BBC Sounds.