Clive Myrie

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is the award-winning journalist and broadcaster Clive Myri. He was born just outside Bolton in Lancashire, one of seven children to Jamaican parents who'd emigrated to the UK a few years earlier. His interest in news and foreign affairs was peaked by the free reading material he picked up on his paper round and from watching his childhood heroes Alan Wicker and Sir Trevor MacDonald on TV.

Presenter1:09

He spent many years as a foreign correspondent reporting from war zones including Afghanistan, Kosovo and Iraq.

Presenter1:16

He has a long-standing interest in US politics and has covered seven presidential elections, including Barack Obama's historic victory in 2008. Next month, he's leading the BBC's election night coverage, along with Laura Koonsberg. In 2021, he became the quiz master of the BBC's much-loved mastermind, but he hasn't lost his appetite for reporting from the sharp end, covering the NHS response to COVID, as well as the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and the Israel-Gaza war. He says, there's an adrenaline rush in being a journalist on the front line, something that makes you want to go back for more. Although for me, I don't think it's the sense that I'm potentially in danger. It's just about telling stories from incredible places. Clive Myrie, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Clive Myrie2:00

Thank you for having me. It's great to be here.

Presenter2:02

You're so welcome. But listen, Clive, let's start with that adrenaline rush because it is such an emotional dichotomy that sits right at the heart of war reporting, isn't it? You have that feeling and then also the very real horror of what you're witnessing, what's happening in front of you. How do you deal with the emotional dissonance of that?

Clive Myrie2:19

You tend to find the best of humanity and the worst of humanity. People are horrible, people are violent, but some people are kind and generous and loving sometimes in war zones. You've got this mix and it's the mix that makes telling the stories that are involved in conflict so fascinating. But as I've got older, the adrenaline is dying down a little bit and it's about trying to get to the truth, particularly in an age of social media and the speed with which you can lie. For me now, it's about trying to get to the truth of a story. It's always been about that. But now it's even more important because of the age in which we live.

Presenter3:05

Talking about being on the front line, when you presented the news at ten from Ukraine in twenty twenty two, the Anchor Desk was moved from its London studio to Kyiv, the heart of that conflict. Does a change like that affect the dynamic between you as the presenter and the audience?

Clive Myrie3:21

It does. It does very much so. Particularly for those viewers who perhaps didn't really know what my background was. They would potentially have come to me as a man on the telly from Mastermind.

Presenter3:35

Yeah.

Clive Myrie3:36

So they wouldn't know that I've reported from Iraq. When did they react? Clive, get off the roof. What are you doing? And I still get that now. People come up to me and they say, God, we were so worried about you standing on the roof like that, so exposed. Prince Joe.

Presenter3:38

So how did they get it?

Presenter3:48

Yeah.

Speaker 13:48

Uh

Clive Myrie3:51

Of course, Prince Charles, he was Prince Charles, in the middle of 2022. I spoke to him at a reception and he said, ah.

Speaker 13:59

There

Clive Myrie3:59

You're the man of the rule.

Clive Myrie4:01

You're the man of the room.

Clive Myrie4:03

And I was with Lise Dussette, who spent a lot of time with me on the roof with the colours.

Presenter4:06

She's been on a roof or two and a time.

Clive Myrie4:08

She she has, she has, yeah.

Presenter4:10

So you're leading the BBC's election night coverage coming up, Clive, along with Laura Koonsberg. A big occasion. Any pressure?

Clive Myrie4:18

A lot of pressure. And there's a nervous energy there as well, which is wonderful. I mean, I've never presented an election programme in the UK before.

Clive Myrie4:26

I'm getting my head around a lot of statistics, but you know, we want to try and make it fun too. It's not just going to be a night for geeks, okay? I hope it's not just a night for geeks, for political geeks. I want people to be able to tune in and get a sense of where this country is going and the buzz of being on the front line. This is the front line of what it means to be British when it comes to the elections. And so there'll be an adrenaline rush that will keep me going, I'm sure, right through into the wee small hours into the morning.

Speaker 44:34

Okay.

Speaker 14:42

Mm.

Presenter4:57

And another string to your bow with quite a different brush to it, I'm sure, is Presenting Mastermind for the BBC. You've also just fronted a new travel series. Are those jobs a bit of a conscious decision to show a different side to your personality?

Clive Myrie5:02

Uh

Presenter5:10

The

Clive Myrie5:10

They've ended up being part of an attempt to show that I'm not just a sort of one-dimensional news robot. But at the same time, it's also a way of having the public understand a bit more about what I'm like. You know, we're invited as newscasters and journalists, we're invited into people's homes every single night. And they could either open the door, look you in the face, and say, no, thanks, slam the door in your face, switch off the tele or go to another channel. Or they open the door and say, oh, it's my mate. Ah, it's someone I trust. It's someone whose word I can believe. And I think that is possibly, maybe more likely if you know a little bit more about who I am. I'm not just, as I say, this news robot handing down tablets of stone. Here is the news for you, Lauren, and you'd better take it. I would love it if you'd like to.

Speaker 15:37

Ooh.

Presenter6:06

I would love it if you did that, just to be clear.

Clive Myrie6:08

It's your broccoli, your broad beans. It's good for you, good fibre. I want to be able to say.

Clive Myrie6:16

Do you know what happened in Ukraine today?

Clive Myrie6:19

This is what happened in Ukraine, and hopefully that will engender a little bit more trust in what I'm saying and what the BBC is saying.

Presenter6:27

Well, Clive, it's time for your first disc. What are we going to hear, and why are you taking it with you?

Clive Myrie6:32

I got a love of music and playing music and being involved in music from a very early age. I played the violin, played the trumpet, and I played in the Bolton Youth Orchestra. I had a lot of fun, so music is important. I first heard this in my teens, actually, when I was learning to play the violin. I couldn't play this, I was never that good. But I've always loved the slower movements in Beethoven's string quartets, and this one is particularly magical: the melancholy, the longing, the power. And it's the sixth movement of Beethoven's string quartet number 14.

Presenter8:03

Part of the sixth movement from Beethoven's String Quartet No. fourteen, performed by the Kodai Quartet.

Presenter8:10

Clive Myrie, your parents came to the UK from Jamaica. They temporarily left your sister and two half brothers behind with your grandparents while they started a new life in Bolton. You were their first child to be born in the UK. This was nineteen sixty four. What did you know about Jamaica when you were growing up?

Clive Myrie8:27

Being born here over the years growing up didn't negate the Caribbean side of my heritage at all.

Clive Myrie8:36

You know, my parents would cook West Indian food. We'd listen to music that came from the Caribbean. We would have a front room that was festooned in souvenirs, I suppose, and remembrances of that other life that my parents had. You know, coasters with a map of Jamaica on and on.

Speaker 18:46

Yeah.

Speaker 48:46

Uh

Presenter8:56

Yeah.

Presenter8:59

You said the front room was was the Caribbean when you were growing up.

Clive Myrie9:02

Yeah, yeah, and as such a place of refuge, I suppose one could say. Being immigrants to this country and being black, that at times could be problematic. And so the front room with different bottles of rum and the pictures of Caribbean sunsets and so on was a safe haven, I suppose.

Presenter9:25

Tell me a bit more about your mum and dad. So your mother, Lynn, she was a primary school teacher in Jamaica. Was she able to teach when she moved to the UK?

Clive Myrie9:33

No, she wasn't. And she knew that before she got on the plane to come to Britain. She knew she was going to have to retrain and to get a British qualification to teach. But then she fell pregnant with me. And that meant that she, of course, had to contribute to the family finances if she had to get work herself. So it was put off. So she became a seamstress.

Speaker 19:52

So it was

Clive Myrie9:56

She was so good that the bosses allowed her to work from home, which meant that she could bring up me and my other siblings while she was working. So I remember the lorry arriving in the morning with all the bits to the garments. So, you know, the yoke of a shirt and the sleeves and the buttons and the back and everything. And she made shirts for Marks and Spencer. She made miniskirts for Mary Quant, Harold Wilson's raincoats. She was an amazing seamstress.

Presenter10:20

Oh wow.

Presenter10:25

But she was able to get her teaching qualifications in the end though, I think.

Clive Myrie10:30

That's right. I mean, she always believed that she could have done it, if I hadn't come along.

Clive Myrie10:35

And then another kid came along and and we ended up with a large family. So getting the time off to get the qualification was always difficult until of course we all grew up and flew the nest. And at the age of what was she, she was 64 I think, she got her qu teaching qualification.

Presenter10:53

64.

Clive Myrie10:54

Yeah, yeah. She needed to prove to herself that she could have done it. So she was very good around children and I was actually really shy as a kid to the point where I was mute in preschool and the teachers called her in and they said, look, we're really worried about Clive because he's just not speaking in class. And my mum said, oh, don't worry, he's fine, absolutely fine, totally understanding me and understanding where shyness comes from. He's just in a new environment, blah, blah, blah, blah. I didn't speak for a wee while. bit longer, a few more weeks. And all of a sudden I burst out in class, my mum and dad have lions and tigers in the house. And the teacher was like, he really has got a problem now. He really has got a problem now. He's speaking. So my mum's hauled in again. And the teacher says, what's this about lions and tigers in the house? We really think he should see a child psychologist.

Clive Myrie11:45

And my mum said, burst out laughing, and she said, Those are the little ornaments we have in the house on the mantelpiece. This is in the front room.

Speaker 411:51

Is this in the front room?

Clive Myrie11:54

Lauren this is in the front room, little lions and tigers, glass ornaments. And so she understood me, she understood children in a way that some teachers didn't. So she was a wonderful, and still is, a wonderful teacher.

Speaker 111:54

Right, this is

Presenter12:07

Your father, Norris, he'd been a cobbler in Jamaica. How did he find life in Bolton?

Clive Myrie12:12

It was difficult for him. He struggled. He was a good-looking, carefree kind of guy in Jamaica. In the UK, of course, he had to deal with bringing up a family of kids, a large family, and that carefree sort of life that he had before suddenly disappeared. And also sort of not feeling that he was really, you know, a part of this new society that he had to become accustomed to.

Presenter12:38

What was he doing? Where was he working?

Clive Myrie12:38

Uh

Clive Myrie12:39

So he was working on construction sites to begin with and then for a long time he worked at a battery factory up the road making car batteries.

Presenter12:48

So w was he unhappy?

Clive Myrie12:49

I think he was. I think he was. I think that came across in the way that he behaved around the kids, you know, a little distant. It was sad because, you know, he wasn't really the kind of man who would join in sort of family gatherings and let his hair down. You know, you sort of rarely saw that, but you could hear it in the front room when he was with our uncles and visitors who came. And, you know, we kids were sort of locked out, basically. We weren't allowed in the front room while the men were talking. And you could hear the laughter and the chink of rum glasses. But I suppose I didn't get a proper all-encompassing awareness of how unhappy he was until last year and I had long conversations with him about what it was like for him when he first arrived here. And he talked about that sense of alienation and that loneliness to a degree, that he wasn't in the sunshine of the Caribbean.

Presenter13:49

Clive, it's time for your second disc. What have you chosen and why are you taking it with you today?

Clive Myrie13:54

Yeah, the second disc. My parents, when they came here from Jamaica, they came with a love of the old crooners, Bing Crosby, Andy Williams, and on the old radiogram in the front room

Clive Myrie14:07

You would hear this coming out of the speaker. Jim Reeves, welcome to my world.

Speaker 414:13

Welcome to my world.

Speaker 414:19

Won't you come on in?

Speaker 414:25

Miracles I get

Speaker 414:30

Still happen now and then.

Speaker 414:36

Step into my heart

Presenter14:43

Jim Reeves and welcome to my world. You're back in the front room. Well, let's talk a little bit more about that idea of the front room as a kind of safe haven from the world outside. Because there are many stories about how difficult it was for families who left the Caribbean to be accepted in the UK in the 60s and 70s. What sort of experience did your parents have and how much did you know about what they'd been through?

Speaker 414:45

Or back in the front row.

Speaker 114:46

Back in the

Clive Myrie15:07

Didn't really know that.

Presenter15:08

I might actually.

Clive Myrie15:08

I think the majority of what I found out about what it was like for them, particularly dealing with issues like racism and so on, you know, I found out.

Clive Myrie15:18

In the last couple of years. You know, it clearly was a difficult time for them on occasion. I don't recall them.

Clive Myrie15:25

Ever going to the pub or ever going to a restaurant? And I think.

Speaker 415:27

Ooh.

Speaker 115:27

Uh

Clive Myrie15:30

You know, they just wanted to keep themselves to themselves and that might have been to do with wanting to avoid, you know, any confrontations that could have happened. And I suppose, you know, they just felt safe within the confines of their own home.

Presenter15:42

Your mum was brought up as a Catholic. She was very devout, I think. But you weren't raised a Catholic. Why not?

Clive Myrie15:49

My mum taught in a Catholic school in Jamaica. She came to this country with a letter of introduction from the priest in her hometown. And this was her letter of introduction to the priest nearest to her home in Bolton. And she took the letter to the priest. He read it and he said, well, I'm sorry, but this church falls outside the diocese in which you should be going to church because your address is this particular address. But the church was within, I don't know, less than half a mile from my mum's front door. And the nearest Catholic church within the diocese of the area where the priest said she should be going to worship.

Clive Myrie16:34

was about three or four bus rides away. To this day she would never suggest that this was racism.

Presenter16:39

What did she put it down to?

Clive Myrie16:41

Oh, he he was simply following the letter of the law. You know, you could see the church from our front door, you could walk to the church from our front door, but he was simply being conscientious to his other parishioners or whatever.

Presenter16:56

What do you think about that?

Clive Myrie16:56

What do you think about that? Oh, it's it feels to me as if he decided that um my mother, being a woman from the Caribbean and being black, shouldn't be in his church.

Clive Myrie17:08

That's what it feels to me.

Presenter17:10

So what did your mum do?

Clive Myrie17:10

The waiter mundan

Clive Myrie17:11

So she went to the nearest church to our home within the diocese, and that was Church of England. So I was brought up Church of England, and it wasn't until I was about to get married to a Catholic, went to the church in Covent Garden, and the priest said, You know, you're going to have to convert because you're Church of England. I said, Yes, I fully understand that. And then I went to my mum and said, I'm going to have to convert. She said, Well, actually.

Presenter17:36

Yeah.

Clive Myrie17:37

You Catholic?

Presenter17:39

And your mum s it sounds like your mum has an incredible faith in human nature.

Clive Myrie17:44

She does actually. She hasn't got a bad word to say about anyone. And I hope that's something that all her kids have picked up, actually. You know, we're always hoping to see the good in people. And I get that from my mum, absolutely.

Presenter17:58

Tell me about the family dynamics growing up, Clive, because they must have been quite interesting and and shifted quite a lot. So at the beginning you're effectively an only child, but then everybody else arrives.

Speaker 418:06

Yeah.

Speaker 418:08

Yeah.

Presenter18:09

That's right. So your brothers and sister come from Jamaica to live with you and your mum and dad. Did they bring you out of your shell? The house must have got incredibly noisy very quickly. Absolutely, they did.

Speaker 418:09

That's right. That's right.

Clive Myrie18:14

Yeah.

Clive Myrie18:15

Yeah.

Clive Myrie18:19

Yeah, absolutely. They did. My two older brothers, Lionel and Peter.

Presenter18:23

So they would have been teenagers by now.

Clive Myrie18:24

So they would have been early teens, sort of 11, 12, 13. Okay.

Presenter18:28

Okay.

Clive Myrie18:28

And Judith was seven. So all of a sudden you've got this house. I was on my own and now there are four other people. There is my kid brother Garfield, two years younger than me. Then there is Sonia, two years younger than Garfield and Lorna, two or three years younger than Sonia. And it's huge and it's riotous and you need to come out of your shell in order to make your voice heard. You know, make sure you don't get the dregs of the cooking at the end of the day.

Presenter18:55

At the end

Presenter18:56

That is a huge thing.

Clive Myrie18:57

It's a big thing. It's a big thing.

Presenter18:58

So what was what what how did you

Clive Myrie18:59

You don't want to be there with the little scraps of chicken wings.

Presenter19:02

Who gets served first?

Clive Myrie19:03

Who gets the breast? Well, my dad would get the breast and my mum. And then the older sort of boys would get a little bit more. Maybe they'd get a couple of legs. And you don't want to be left with the wing.

Presenter19:13

So you had to learn to hold your own.

Clive Myrie19:14

Damn right.

Presenter19:16

Clive, it's time for disc number three.

Clive Myrie19:18

This number three, yeah I love opera. I love the madness of it, the drama. I go to the opera festival in Verona every year. We stay in the same hotel, we eat the same food. A lot of the time we see the same operas that we've done over the last decade or so, but it's just it's just wonderful and I've got a circle of friends that we all go there and it's an annual ritual now. And this is such a beautiful, beautiful area. In English, may the wind blow gently. In Italian, of course, it's suave sia il vento from Cosifantutti.

Speaker 119:31

The same

Speaker 420:06

In goodness of

Speaker 420:16

Whose

Presenter20:54

Suave Sia Ilvento from Mozart's Coti Fantuti performed by Kiritikanoa, Anne Murray, and Ferruccio Ferlinetto with the Vienna Philharmonic.

Presenter21:06

Clive Myrie, one of your very first jobs was actually a paper round, and it came with a pretty good bonus. You got free copies of the newspapers to take home. So that must have broadened your perspective quite a lot.

Clive Myrie21:18

It did. It really was this window on a world.

Clive Myrie21:22

Beyond Bolton. And I'd be reading these stories about stuff going on in some place called South Africa and in America which I'd heard of stuff about some bloke called Richard Nixon.

Presenter21:34

How old would you have been back then?

Clive Myrie21:36

So I would have been 10, 11.

Clive Myrie21:40

And my dad was adamant that he had to watch the 10 o'clock news on ITV. Had to be ITV.

Presenter21:46

Okay.

Presenter21:47

Why I see the

Clive Myrie21:48

A little bit more user-friendly, shall we say, less formal, a little bit more relaxed. So as a result, there was a sense that ITV News spoke to us a bit more. I'm sure that's not the case.

Speaker 421:59

Uh

Clive Myrie22:00

That is absolutely not the case now. Um so you know I grew up with Gordon Honeycomb and Reginald Bozenke and Sandy Gaul. These were my heroes on television. And there was this other guy called um Alan Wicker and he'd be doing some of the stories that I'd be reading about in the newspaper.

Speaker 122:09

And that

Clive Myrie22:16

And I'd be like, wow, where is he now? He's in Japan. And then next minute he'll be in Haiti.

Presenter22:22

So he was off having adventures.

Clive Myrie22:23

He was off having adventures, that was it, way beyond Bolton. And I liked his manner and I liked his style and he just seemed to be having fun. And I thought, oh, that's what I want to do. But I thought, none of these people sound like me. They all say castle, they don't say castle. And none of them look like me. None of these people were black. And then one day, turn on the TV and there's this bloke called Trevor McDonald. And he's off all over the place. And he's having fun. And I'm like, right, it is possible. Seeing Trevor was an event for everybody. Not just in our household, but for so many Caribbean households up and down the country because there was a black guy in a position of authority speaking about serious things. You know, it wasn't an entertainment show. He wasn't a comedian. We would see the comedians, you know, Granada TV program with Kenny Lynch and another black comedian sort of being funny, which was brilliant. But this guy was serious. Because he was serious, maybe he was important and he was black. So households across the country, 10 o'clock, Trevor MacDonald is on. Everyone would run downstairs. Everything on TV. Everything stopped.

Presenter23:31

Everything's jumped.

Speaker 123:32

Uh

Clive Myrie23:33

To see Big Trev. That was a big thing. And you know, I'm pleased to say that he's someone that I know a little bit now. And he was such an important part of my decision to get into this profession in the first place. You can't be what you can't see, the old adage.

Presenter23:48

Uh

Presenter23:48

Did you tell him that?

Clive Myrie23:51

He is so bored of me telling him that. Honestly, it's like oh, like before you say it, yeah, I know, I know you think I'm your hero, that's fine, that's okay. Now let's move on. What are you having to drink? What are you having to drink?

Presenter24:02

What are you having to drink?

Speaker 124:02

Uh

Clive Myrie24:04

So, but no, he's he's he's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful guy.

Presenter24:08

You did very well at school, Clive. You went to grammar school, studied law at the University of Sussex, but from what you've said, was your heart in it?

Clive Myrie24:17

Wasn't really there. I was aware that that's why my parents, why any immigrant, frankly, does what they do. They didn't fly four, five thousand miles for me to be a bum. So I studied law at university and I thought, you know what, it's a good career to have to fall back on if I didn't make it as a journalist. But I chose Sussex because there they have, or at least they had, the major minor system, which meant that you could major in law, but I could do what I really loved, which was literature. And I studied American literature and politics.

Presenter24:55

After graduation, you got a place on the BBC Reporters Training Scheme. It's a very competitive course. Many, many people apply for it, and very few make it. You did.

Clive Myrie24:58

So

Clive Myrie25:00

Yeah.

Presenter25:04

What was your parents' reaction to that success?

Clive Myrie25:06

They they certainly outwardly were okay and you know, it's what you want to do, want you to be happy, blah, blah, but I know um deep down they they were they were a little bit disappointed.

Presenter25:18

How did you set out to position yourself once you started out in journalism at the beginning of your career?

Clive Myrie25:23

I didn't want to be seen as a black journalist. I wanted to be a journalist who just happens to be black. I didn't want the BBC to fall into lazy thinking, which was so easy at the time. Nottinghill Carnival, send the black guy. Riot out on the street, you know, in some inner city area, send the black guy. I didn't want that. I wanted to do those stories, but I didn't want those stories to define who I was at the beginning of my career. I didn't want someone else defining who I am. I didn't want my colour to define who I am. And the BBC understood that, and as a result, my first posting was to Japan.

Clive Myrie26:05

I know, to Japan, you know, not the most diverse of of places, but I think it meant from the public's perspective, from viewers' perspective, oh, it's not that weird having a black guy cover Japan, and it's not that weird because it's not that big a deal.

Speaker 426:05

No.

Presenter26:22

Let's have some more music, shall we? Your fourth choice, please. What have you got?

Clive Myrie26:24

What have you got?

Clive Myrie26:27

He was just so cool, so innovative. And, you know, there's a big black influence on Japanese culture, certainly in modern times. And so it was a wonderful period of my life being there. And I've been lucky to go back every now and again. And jazz, yeah, the Blue Knut Jazz Club in Tokyo is wonderful. Spend a bit of time there whenever I'm in the country. And Miles Davis has got to be on the menu. And this is all blues.

Presenter27:55

Miles Davis and All Blues. So Clive Myrie, as we've heard, the BBC sent you to Japan and while you were there, you visited a leprosy colony. What do you remember about that?

Clive Myrie28:07

Oh, it's um that left a big impression on me. This would have been nineteen ninety six, I think. And the idea that there were still leper colonies in existence anywhere in the world was was just astonishing.

Presenter28:19

How long had the inhabitants been there?

Clive Myrie28:22

Some had been there since before the Second World War. They'd grown up there. They didn't fit the Japanese idea of what it meant to be healthy and pure. But I really wanted to sort of understand the mindset of a society that was so willing to discriminate in that way, in a similar way to the Britain that my parents came to.

Presenter28:41

So you saw that you had an experience that could bring a perspective, a level of understanding. Absolutely.

Clive Myrie28:44

Absolutely. I mean, you know, nowhere near, you know, I hadn't been treated in anywhere near as appalling a fashion as these people who'd been locked away behind closed doors, ripped from the bosoms of their families for such a long period. But I understood to a degree what it meant to be shunned by society and to feel that you weren't valued.

Presenter29:10

Was it emotional for you and did you find it easy to keep that in check?

Clive Myrie29:15

It's never easy to keep those emotions in check, but you know you have to because you're a professional and that's your job. I've actually found that as I've got older I've sort of it feels as if the the pain of others the regrets the longing the sadness affects me more. I haven't got used to it. That's the thing. I haven't got used to it because I've been doing it for 20 odd thirty years. Yeah, maybe it is something to do with age. It affects me much more now than it than it used to.

Presenter29:40

I wonder as well about audience expectations, you know, because perhaps the audience do expect to see a little bit of your emotional reaction.

Clive Myrie29:48

When that's appropriate. I think you're right. I think you're right. But it has to be when it's appropriate. As I say, we're not these news reporters, presenters. We're not just handing down these tablets of stone of news to you. That doesn't feel appropriate now because the public's idea of how the world works has shifted a little bit. We no longer take on board the word of authority as easily as perhaps we used to. We tend to question a lot. You know, the internet has given us the opportunity to find other things out, to question what is put in front of us. And so you need to make a link with the viewer on a slightly different level, I think. And that is to sort of put yourself in the place of the viewer. So if you're seeing an apartment block.

Presenter29:48

Well that's probably

Clive Myrie30:37

That has been blown apart by a Russian missile in Ukraine and people are wailing and crying and there's destruction and death. You need to put yourself, I think, as a reporter, in the shoes of the viewer. And you need to relate to it to a degree in the way that a viewer would. And be appalled.

Clive Myrie30:58

Be appalled that this has happened in the twenty first century.

Presenter31:02

And what happens though, Clive, when the reverse happens, the story coincides with your life? You know, I'm thinking of the Windrush scandal. Your family were caught up in that. Your elder siblings were touched by that. How do you report on that and deal with the mix of emotions that must result?

Clive Myrie31:11

The siblings

Speaker 431:13

Uh

Clive Myrie31:13

Yeah.

Clive Myrie31:18

Sure. Well well again, you're professional and you don't talk specifically about your own personal link to the story, but you show a level of incredulity.

Clive Myrie31:31

and the level of sadness that this could happen.

Presenter31:36

And in your elder brother's case, they didn't have the right paperwork to prove they were in the UK legally, even though they'd lived here since the late nineteen sixties. What happened to them?

Clive Myrie31:46

There was a certain amount of restitution. Lionel now has the right to remain here, but Peter died before he got his stuff. And it's just dreadful. And he wanted to take his daughter Maisie to Jamaica so that she could see.

Clive Myrie32:06

Parents' homeland, and he couldn't do that. He died of prostate cancer. And there are still people who haven't received their compensation.

Clive Myrie32:14

It's just very, very it's just very sad.

Presenter32:17

Clive, let's take a minute for some music, shall we? Your next piece. What's good?

Clive Myrie32:21

Yeah, my next piece is um Bach's cello suites, which I absolutely adore.

Clive Myrie32:27

You've taken

Presenter32:27

You've taken this around the world, I think.

Clive Myrie32:29

I I have in my knapsack and listened to all over the world and this is a Bach's prelude from the cello suite number five in C minor.

Presenter33:38

Bach's Prelude from the cello suite number five in C minor, performed by Paul Tortellier. Clive Myrie, very sadly, it's not only the literal line of fire that you faced in your career, you've also had to deal with racism from some of the viewing public. What kind of thing have you faced?

Clive Myrie33:55

Yeah, I mean you know you would get the odd comment on email and stuff people like you shouldn't be on RTV you dress like a pimp

Clive Myrie34:06

One person suggested. And, you know, cards in the post, you know, with guerrillas on. I mean, there was a period actually in the 90s when a number of reporters who are of colour would get feces in the post. And so, and it's powerful for the course. It used to wind me up, but now I just have unbridled pity for these losers. This thing has sort of picked up more since I've become a presenter and maybe a little bit more visible. But one chap issued death threats and he was tracked down and prosecuted. And his death threats involved talking about, you know, the kind of bullet that he'd use in the gun to kill me and this kind of stuff. And, you know.

Presenter34:49

How did you react react to something like that?

Clive Myrie34:51

I was I was shaken. Shaken for a while after I'd been told and they thought, well, it's just, you know, someone showboating, it's just bravado. And then they tracked down this this character and it turned out that he had previous convictions for firearms offences.

Clive Myrie35:06

So, um you thought, my god, what if anything might this person have been planning?

Presenter35:13

Let's turn to something more positive. I want to ask you about a night that you've described as one of your best as a BBC journalist, and this is the election of Barack Obama in two thousand eight. Why was it such a special broadcast for you?

Clive Myrie35:26

I was in Morehouse College in Atlanta and Morehouse is one of the historic black colleges. Martin Luther King went there and the hall, main hall in the college was full of undergrads, alumni and some of the people who'd been on civil rights marches with Martin Luther King. They were quite elderly but they wanted to be there.

Clive Myrie35:49

And then it was announced that he got the number of electoral college votes needed, over 270. He was the President-elect of the United States. And I'm reporting from the South.

Clive Myrie36:00

Forty, fifty years earlier, black people were being lynched wholesale. And I'm appearing on the American Election Special Programme. David Dimbleby's presenting and he comes to me, Clive, paint a picture of the scene.

Clive Myrie36:13

And I just say, David, everyone's in tears. The whole room is in tears.

Clive Myrie36:18

And Barack Obama is basically standing on the shoulders of so many of the civil rights marchers who are here today, all that kind of stuff.

Clive Myrie36:26

And then for some reason at the end of it I decided to say and I have to say, David, for me being a black man,

Clive Myrie36:33

To be here at this moment in time in history in the South.

Clive Myrie36:38

is quite a moment and uh

Clive Myrie36:41

David turned away and went on to something else. And I thought, oh my god, I've gone over the top here. I've managed to make one of the most important events in modern American history all about me.

Clive Myrie36:54

How did that happen? OD. And of course, you taught on your journalism course, exactly. Never put yourself at the story. The story is not about you, it's about the people you're talking about.

Presenter36:59

Never put yourself together.

Speaker 136:59

Yeah.

Clive Myrie37:05

And I felt a bit stupid, really, and thought, damn, I've messed this up. And then I looked up and I saw the correspondent for ABC News, one of the big American networks. He was broadcasting live to, I don't know, 25, 30 million people, and tears were streaming down his face. He had no problem, and I thought, I've got no problem. I haven't crossed any line at all. This is how it is, you know. And I think there would have been a lot of people wondering, actually, Clive Meyer is there.

Speaker 137:27

Crossed any line?

Clive Myrie37:37

What does he really think about this? And I wasn't thinking about those viewers. I was just doing what felt like the right thing to do at that moment. And I'm really glad I did, actually.

Presenter37:47

We talked earlier about how at the beginning of your career, you didn't want to be stereotyped as a black reporter who would only do black stories. But obviously, covering that election, your identity came into the mix and you allowed it to do that.

Clive Myrie38:00

Yeah.

Clive Myrie38:02

Yeah.

Presenter38:02

What did that feel like for you?

Clive Myrie38:05

It did feel good in hindsight to tie in there my own identity with this moment, that sense that you can be viewed by the majority of society as an outsider, but still make it.

Presenter38:22

Let's have some more music, Clive. Your sixth choice today. What have you gone for?

Clive Myrie38:26

Bit of Grace Jones, good Jamaican lady. This reminds me of that year that I took off after university, living in Brighton. I'd graduated, trying to work out what I wanted to do. The world seemed so full of possibility. The sun was always shining. I was with my mate Neil and Martin and just having fun. And Grace Jones, slave to the rhythm. This will always remind me of those days. Remind me of possibilities. That's what it's about.

Speaker 438:55

Right.

Speaker 438:57

Get there and uh

Speaker 439:00

Left to the river

Speaker 439:05

Love to the river.

Speaker 439:09

Slake to the river

Presenter39:22

Grace Jones and Slave to the Rhythm. Clive Myrie, when you're reporting from some of the kind of dramatic scenes and scenarios that you've been in, have you ever wanted to stop being a reporter for a moment, to intervene, to protect or help someone? And what do you do when you're faced with that situation?

Clive Myrie39:43

You do what any human being would do, and at the end of the day I'd like to think that I'm a human being first and a journalist second.

Clive Myrie39:51

And you know, I remember covering the flight of the Rohingya, Muslims who were being burnt out of their homes by Buddhists in Myanmar.

Clive Myrie40:04

And it became known as the Rohingya Crisis. And I remember some of the stories that were being told of babies being thrown on fires by the Myanmar military, people being burnt alive in their homes, torched by the Myanmar military. And there was a little girl who was wandering around the streets of the town.

Clive Myrie40:35

Just across the border and wandering around the refugee camp with a baby on her shoulders. She must have been.

Clive Myrie40:43

Well, no more than seven or eight.

Clive Myrie40:47

But she was carrying this baby.

Clive Myrie40:49

And I thought we've got to do something about this.

Clive Myrie40:53

So we put down the cameras.

Clive Myrie40:55

And we went up to her and we talked to her and found out that her parents had been killed and she was left with the baby. And so we took her to the authorities in the camp and told her story.

Clive Myrie41:13

After we tried to do something about her personal situation.

Speaker 441:17

Uh

Clive Myrie41:18

That was the most important thing. And I'd like to think that, you know, I would do that in in in any other circumstance. You know, look after the human being rather than look after the story. The story is important and it's my job, but there are some things that come before that.

Presenter41:34

Clive, we've got to make some room for the music. This is your penultimate disc. Why are you taking it to the island?

Clive Myrie41:39

Mm-hmm.

Clive Myrie41:40

Dizzy, Dizzy Gillespie. I've talked about jazz, I love jazz and Dizzy is one of my favourites. And I had met my wife Catherine and I was trying to impress her with my sophistication.

Presenter41:52

Show?

Clive Myrie41:53

As you do. And I said, well, you know, I like a bit of jazz. And uh there's a particular particular album by Dizzy Gillespie. Dizzy on the Riviera. That's the south of France by the way.

Presenter41:57

There's a

Clive Myrie42:05

And Catherine looks at me like I'm just some sort of moron and says, well, yeah, it's one of my favourite albums too.

Presenter42:14

Were you like this is the girl?

Clive Myrie42:14

So I'm like, excuse me.

Clive Myrie42:18

Hello? And the thing was, I had it on CD, she had it on vinyl.

Presenter42:22

So

Clive Myrie42:23

So I mean how classy is that? Yeah.

Presenter42:26

Yeah.

Clive Myrie42:26

So yeah.

Presenter42:27

She definitely outdid you there.

Clive Myrie42:28

Oh, she absolutely did. Wipe the floor with me. So uh this is long, long summer.

Presenter43:34

Long, long summer. Dizzy Gillespie for your wife Catherine Clive Myrie, to whom you've been married for over twenty-five years. Does she worry about the the dangerous side of the work that you do?

Clive Myrie43:46

Yes, she does. She sort of got used to it. My parents haven't got used to it, actually. I mean, they don't want to know that I might be going to Ukraine again, and, you know, they just don't want to know. They see me pop up on the TV and then it's like, oh, my God, he's there again, or wherever. But with Catherine, she sort of knew that this was what I'd always wanted to do, this kind of reporting. And it's not the majority of the work that I do now, which helps.

Presenter44:10

I wonder how much of a factor your work has been in shaping your life, thinking that you're going to be traveling somewhere else, sent to a new post. Has it dictated how your life has progressed?

Clive Myrie44:23

Yeah. Catherine thankfully is someone who liked to travel as well.

Clive Myrie44:28

and someone who, you know, wanted new adventures. So that that sort of worked out. I mean, we sort of felt, I suppose, that, you know, having children might be difficult in that kind of instance. So that was something that was sort of not really on the agenda for us, I think. Because we were too busy having such a great time. You know, I still love traveling. I still enjoy. I mean, I used to enjoy eating airplane food. I mean,.

Presenter44:56

Was that just because it meant you were going somewhere excited?

Clive Myrie44:56

Just because it may

Clive Myrie44:58

Yeah, yeah. And I like the idea I like the idea of just being in the airport and about to get on a plane and thinking, Yeah, I'm on a new adventure now. I'm on a on a plane going to a new experience.

Presenter45:09

So, you've never lost that sense of adventure, and we can see it in the travel programmes that you've been making recently. But I wonder about, you know, when you've been embedded in a story that's really heavy, or perhaps, you know, in the news cycle, which is punishing and constant these days, where do you look to find the hope and joy in life when you need to plug into those things? Where do you go?

Clive Myrie45:32

I go to a lot of art galleries actually. It's what I would tend to sort of focus on after, you know, a difficult trip. Really important. And of course music as well.

Clive Myrie45:43

Because that shows the other side of what it means to be a human being. You know, you can be quite calculated and cold when you're firing a gun or pressing the button on a weapon system that's going to destroy a building with people in it.

Clive Myrie46:01

You're not thinking about them as being your equals. You're just thinking coldly, methodically. I'm going to press the button on this weapon system.

Clive Myrie46:10

And it's going to hit that building, and I don't care who's inside.

Clive Myrie46:15

But when you get to great art or literature or music, you know, that is all the sort of internal bits of what it means to be a human being. The creativity, emotion, love, everything is pouring into that work of art or that finely crafted sentence or that sonata or that incredibly honed three-minute pop song. It doesn't matter. It's all the other bits of the human experience that are the counterpoint to the other bits of human experience that are detrimental and that are cold and that are nasty and that aren't good.

Presenter46:49

It's a beautiful thought and tells me that your discs are really going to help you on the island.

Clive Myrie46:54

I've got to have that music. I want big speakers. Big, giant speakers. They'll just be there on the island anyway. It's a full sound system. Don't worry. It's tricked down.

Presenter46:55

Yeah.

Presenter46:57

Giant speakers.

Presenter47:00

Full sound system. Don't worry, it's tricked out. You're fine. Now I am about to send you away though, Clive. How are you feeling about it? Obviously, you've had to bed down in plenty of uncomfortable places. You've done lots of hostile environment training. Will all that help?

Clive Myrie47:14

Yeah, yeah, that would that will help, but you need companionship, don't you? You need people around you whom you love.

Presenter47:20

Will you try to escape?

Clive Myrie47:22

Will I try to explain?

Presenter47:23

Oh, there's a smile playing about your lips, Clive Myri.

Speaker 147:24

Alexander.

Speaker 447:25

BAAP

Speaker 147:25

See

Clive Myrie47:26

Will I try to escape? Well, I'm not going to tell you that. You know, you'd probably have the sort of guards just watching just in case. We just release you. What's trying to do that? Well, I don't know. Okay, so you wouldn't have to. There's no goddogs.

Presenter47:35

No, no, I like it.

Presenter47:37

We don't release you when we're not.

Speaker 147:40

Yeah.

Presenter47:41

There's no got dogs.

Clive Myrie47:46

I'm a pretty good swimmer actually. I'm a pretty good swimmer, so I might I would I make a bolt for it?

Presenter47:51

Yeah. Dunno, it depends.

Clive Myrie47:52

Yeah.

Presenter47:52

Yeah.

Clive Myrie47:52

Depends.

Presenter47:54

Yeah. I sense there's a new adventure in the offering.

Clive Myrie47:55

Digital adventure in the offing.

Presenter47:57

Alright, one more disc before we cast you away. Your final choice. What have you gone for?

Clive Myrie48:00

Final choice, what have you gone for? Right, okay, I do like a good old classic disco tune. Love that stuff. And I just love this track from the Brothers Johnson Stomp because it's just a group of friends going out on a Saturday night, having fun.

Clive Myrie48:17

and dancing.

Presenter48:18

Will you dance to this on the island?

Clive Myrie48:20

Oh yeah, the sand will be between my toes as I pretend I'm in Studio 54.

Clive Myrie48:25

No question. No question. I will absolutely be dancing to this.

Speaker 448:36

Basically for better than love

Speaker 448:41

Take it to the top where you just come

Speaker 448:44

Oh, damn.

Speaker 448:48

Bear bowls and corners

Speaker 448:52

All time.

Presenter49:02

Stomp the Brothers Johnson. So, Clive Maury, on that disco inflected note, I'm going to cast you away to the island. I will of course give you the books, the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and another book of your choice. What are you going to go for?

Speaker 449:07

Uh

Clive Myrie49:07

Uh

Clive Myrie49:16

I will be nourished intellectually by Big Will and the Bible.

Clive Myrie49:24

So I think it needs to be something visual. And I'm thinking of the catalogue of the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

Presenter49:33

It's yours. You can also have a luxury item. What do you fancy there, Clive?

Clive Myrie49:37

There's probably gonna be a lot of fish, right?

Presenter49:40

Mm-hmm.

Clive Myrie49:40

Wild boar

Presenter49:41

Perhaps?

Clive Myrie49:42

Yeah, perhaps.

Presenter49:42

Uh

Clive Myrie49:44

I need hot sauce.

Presenter49:45

Uh

Clive Myrie49:46

My food's got to be seasoned, man.

Presenter49:47

Okay.

Clive Myrie49:47

It's got to be seasoned and it's got to be spicy.

Presenter49:50

Okay.

Clive Myrie49:50

I want a bottle of hot

Clive Myrie49:54

pepper sauce to add to my dishes.

Clive Myrie49:58

That's it.

Presenter49:58

It's yours, the biggest I can find.

Clive Myrie50:00

A never-ending one.

Presenter50:01

Okay, never ending.

Clive Myrie50:02

Never ended.

Presenter50:04

Yeah, I think we can do a never-ending bottle of hot sauce.

Presenter50:09

And finally, which one of these eight tracks would you rush to save from the waves if you had to?

Clive Myrie50:14

It's going to have to be.

Clive Myrie50:16

Dizzy. Dizzy Gillespie.

Presenter50:19

Yeah.

Clive Myrie50:19

Remind me of Mrs. Myri.

Presenter50:22

Clive Myrie, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Clive Myrie50:25

Oh, it's been a pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Presenter50:42

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Clive and I hope he'll stop fretting about guard dogs and just enjoy dancing. We've cast away many journalists and broadcasters including Clive's hero Sir Trevor MacDonald and his colleagues Lise Du Set and Jeremy Bowen. You can find these episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and on BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, the production coordinator was Susie Roylands and the producer was Paula McGinley. The series editor is John Gowdy. Next time my guest will be the boxer Anthony Joshua. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 451:30

From BBC Radio 4, Britain's biggest paranormal podcast.

Speaker 451:35

Is going on a road trip. I thought in that moment, oh my god, we've summoned something from this board.

Speaker 451:45

This is Uncanny USA.

Speaker 151:48

He says, somebody's in the house, and I screamed.

Speaker 451:54

Listen to Uncanny USA on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 451:59

If you dare.