Sandy Powell

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is Sandy Powell. She's one of the most celebrated costume designers in the film business, with three Academy Awards to her name. Her looks bring stories to life. She created Shakespeare in Love's sumptuous realism, Gangs of New York's murderous dandies, and brought Mary Poppins into a new century. She grew up in South London, where her father entertained her with tales of the characters who frequented the casino where he worked, and her mother taught her to sew. She's dressed everyone from Leonardo DiCaprio to Judy Dench and worked closely with some of modern cinema's greatest auteurs. Derek Jarman, Todd Haynes and Martin Scorsese have all trusted her to articulate their visions on project after project. She says 80% of the job is psychology and only about 20% art. You have to figure out how to make people feel safe because dressing them is a very intimate act. They have to feel that in your hands they will find their character. Sandy Powell, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you. How do you make actors feel comfortable and safe in the fitting room? Because that's where it all happens for you.

Sandy Powell1:51

It absolutely does all happen in the fitting room. That is where the design takes place. And you have to make them believe that you're there to help them find their character. You're not there to force them into wearing uncomfortable clothes or things they don't want to wear.

Presenter2:05

So how did you come up with a look for Daniel Day Lewis's character, Bill the Butcher, in Gangs of New York?

Sandy Powell2:11

What happened with him was I'd started with a meeting with Martin Scorsese, and he said he saw Bill the Butcher as a dandy. I mean, he was the villain of the piece, and he's a butcher, but and a gangster, but he was a dandy. He

Sandy Powell2:27

Sort of showed off his wealth in his clothing. I then met Daniel Day-Lewis in Ireland a little bit later and had never met him before, and I was a little bit nervous about meeting him, and talked to him about how he thought his character. And it was the complete opposite. It was like, oh, and I think he should be greasy, dirty, and down, and grimy. And it was like, hmm, that's not what Mr. Score says he thinks. But anyway, let's try. Let's try both options. And so what happened was I went away and then we created prototypes along the lines of what Marty was asking for. And then in our first fitting, put the sample shapes on him.

Sandy Powell3:05

And he was sold. I mean, he said, okay, this is it. I understand where you're coming from.

Presenter3:09

And s

Sandy Powell3:10

So for Bill the Butcher, what was the silhouette? What was the look? The silhouette was I exaggerated his own silhouette in a way. I wanted to make him really long and lean. And so his trouser shape was long skinny leg trousers, which was kind of right for the period, which was around 1840, 1850. It was sort of right for a 19th century gentleman at the time. And then made his top hat a little bit higher than everybody else's. It was just sort of exaggerating the silhouette. I mean, he's a bit of a caricature.

Presenter3:41

Well let's dive in. Disc number one. What are we going to hear and why have you chosen it?

Sandy Powell3:46

This is Jeepster by T-Rex, which was the first album I ever bought. I'd saved up my pocket money in 1971 when I was eleven. I mean, I think it was the the cute man in ladies' clothes, in like ladies' blouses and a scarf, and he wore those little shoes, those little character shoes from O'Nello and David with a heel. I mean, they were about I I've got like four or five pounds in my head, and it was something I could afford myself.

Sandy Powell4:11

And they came in every different colour. And so, yeah, I dressed like Mark Boland and listened to Mark Boland.

Speaker 24:19

You look so sweet

Speaker 24:21

You're so fine.

Speaker 24:24

I want your all and everything like just a true mind that you're my babe.

Speaker 24:33

Wish you my love.

Speaker 24:38

Oh girl, I'm just a cheapster for your love

Presenter4:47

T-Rex and Jeepster. So Sandy Powell, you're born in South London in nineteen sixty. You're a keen cinema goer in your teens, I think, as well as a music fan. What was the first film that made a big impression on you? I remember

Sandy Powell5:00

For being taken to see Cabaret by my mum, and I know I was underaged.

Sandy Powell5:04

I mean, one of the best memories from that was when Liza Mannelli is on a train station, she's walking away from Michael York, and she waves.

Sandy Powell5:12

And the green nail polish really stuck with me. A little bit later on when I was thirteen or fourteen in seventy three or seventy four I went to see Death in Venice.

Sandy Powell5:21

Myself and my friend Gillian Roth, who I was at school with, funked off school about seven times to see that, over and over and over again. It was just the most gorgeous thing I'd ever seen. And it it was the costumes. Dirt Burgard sitting on the beach at the Ledo in white with his hair dye running down his face.

Presenter5:41

Your parents, Sidney Morin, loved the cinema and the theatre too, and I think your dad had quite an unusual way of getting into the pictures without paying.

Sandy Powell5:49

He told myself and my sister Roz that as a kid as I mean, he was a kid really from a poor family brought up in Battersea. And he used to love going to the Sin Mar but had no money. And he used he told us that what he would do is

Sandy Powell6:05

When everybody was coming out of the cinema, he would walk in backwards so that he wouldn't be noticed. He'd walk in backwards as the crowds were walking up, so he's facing the wrong way. And that was in the days when the cinema performances were continuous. You know, one would stop and another one would start. So he'd probably, you know, go in and then run round and let his mates in through a side door. I mean, it was hilarious.

Presenter6:13

Through his face in the

Speaker 16:13

I was like

Speaker 16:19

Do you know?

Presenter6:19

But

Speaker 16:19

Bump.

Presenter6:25

It was hilarious. He sounds like great fun, you dad, quite a character.

Sandy Powell6:30

What what did you learn from him? What was he like?

Sandy Powell6:32

What did I learn from my dad? I guess a sense of humor. He had a sense of humour. He could laugh about everything, actually.

Speaker 26:40

Mm-hmm.

Sandy Powell6:40

He was a Creepier at the Playboy Club originally and then he moved to Charlie Chesse's Casino in Archer Street.

Sandy Powell6:47

through the seventies where he was a manager. And that's where, you know, he had many a tale to tell of uh you know, Francis Bacon used to come in because his boyfriend worked the door. He'd tell stories of actors who would come in during in full costume during the interval'cause the the stage door would be you know at adjacent to it and come in and then stage managers dragging them back out again.

Speaker 17:07

To it and

Sandy Powell7:11

Yeah, it was fascinating. Sandy, it's time for disc number two. What's coming up next?

Sandy Powell7:18

This is um Mahler's Fifth Symphony, which is a significant part of Death in Venice. It brings back those days of punking off school and going to see Death in Venice and the beauty of it all.

Presenter8:31

The Adagietto from Mahler's Fifth Symphony, performed by the Orchestra of the Academy of St. Cecilia, conducted by Franco Menino, from the soundtrack to the film Death in Venice. Sandy Powell, your mother, Maureen, was a secretary. You dedicated your BAFTA Fellowship Award to her and to mothers everywhere. How did she inspire you?

Sandy Powell8:50

I guess she was just always encouraging. She was the person that sort of made me believe that I could do whatever I wanted.

Presenter8:56

And she was the one who taught you to sew, I think.

Sandy Powell8:58

Yeah, she did. My mum used to make our clothes when we were kids for years. So I was just used to that. I was used to seeing her. So I was also used to shopping with her for the fabric and the patterns. And I used to really enjoy that, looking through the pattern books, the simplicity and butterick pattern books and choosing a pattern and then helping choose I mean I'm saying I helped to choose the fabrics, I don't know whether I did, but I used to enjoy that and then I really wanted to learn how to do it myself. I started by making dolls clothes and I also did attempt to make clothes for myself very young. Apparently I cut something. I c I think I cut a skirt up and made some hot pants or shorts or something or a bikini. I mean seem to remember that.

Presenter9:35

Um

Sandy Powell9:37

Or I she's told me that I don't remember actually doing it.

Presenter9:39

These sound like potentially forbidden items that you wanted but didn't have. Yeah, exactly.

Sandy Powell9:42

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and that's when I started making clothes for myself because I wanted clothes I couldn't have. I mean, it was different back then. There wasn't fast fashion, as it were. They weren't cheap outlets for buying clothes. I was always making things. I was always doing things and making things. So I was either drawing, painting, sewing, or making things. I just always doing that. I kind of wasn't a sort of playing outside kid.

Presenter10:05

Okay.

Sandy Powell10:05

Okay. I and my sister would be outside climbing trees and I'd be indoors making things.

Presenter10:09

But they're all quite solitary pursuits. So I wonder about your kind of personality as a kid. Were you were you shy?

Sandy Powell10:11

Wonder about your c

Presenter10:15

Yeah.

Sandy Powell10:15

Probably a bit, because I've been accused of being standoffish, and that usually comes from being shy, doesn't it?

Sandy Powell10:21

Probably I was, but I did have friends, but not thousands.

Sandy Powell10:25

And you knew your own mind even as a kid? I don't remember being anxious or nervous about things, and I think I knew what I liked and I knew what I wanted, so I probably was demanding.

Speaker 110:30

I think

Sandy Powell10:35

And so then there's maybe

Presenter10:35

Maybe a sense of a kid that was l a little bit different even then, as well that stood out in a crowd a little bit.

Sandy Powell10:41

Probably, but I did that myself as well'cause I wanted to look different. I mean, half the half the point of making my own clothes was so that they weren't the same as everybody else's. It's time for your next disc. What have you chosen?

Sandy Powell10:52

I remember hearing David Bow for the first time on the radio, and I must have been 11 or 12, and it was Starman. And I was just like, stop what I was doing. And then I remember having a little cassette tape recorder, and I remember rushing to get it and turning it on and holding the microphone up to the speaker on the radio to record it, and then telling everyone to be quiet. And you're shush, I'm recording the radio. After that, I was then looking out for anything to do with him. And I remember seeing the sort of iconic moment on top of the pops where he was singing the same song.

Sandy Powell11:25

And it was extraordinary, just his whole look I'd never seen anything like it. And he had the blue guitar and the orange hair.

Sandy Powell11:31

And there was that moment where in the middle of it, he actually looks straight into the camera and he's looking at you. And it was like, oh my goodness, this is so exciting. And it was, you know, that was one of those moments. That was one of those life-changing moments, really. But having loved Ziggy Stardust and the whole of that album, I've actually picked Life on Mars as my David Bowie track.

Sandy Powell11:56

This song made me feel like I could do anything. And I don't know why, but this was the song I used to sing to myself, sitting on my bed in my little bedroom, thinking, one day I'm going to be doing something I really want to do.

Speaker 212:12

It's a god-awful small affair.

Speaker 212:17

To the girl with the mousy hand

Speaker 212:21

But her money is yelling no

Speaker 212:25

And her daddy has told her to go.

Speaker 212:29

But her friend is nowhere to be seen.

Speaker 212:33

Now she walks through her sunken dream.

Speaker 212:37

To the seat with the clearest view

Speaker 212:41

I'm sorry.

Presenter12:41

Life on Mars David Bowie. Sandy Powell, you did a foundation course at St Martin's School of Art in the late 70s. How do you look back at those days?

Sandy Powell12:50

I had a ball. I mean, it was my first taste of real freedom out of school. I kind of made a decision when I left my school, like Sydenham High School for Girls.

Sandy Powell12:58

I decided I was going to change my life. I decided this is it. I changed my name from Sandra to Sandy.

Sandy Powell13:04

First day at college. I remember we did a supposed woodworking course where we had to make something. And I actually made a soft sculpture out of fabric. I think I made a train out of fabric. But then other things, I made an outfit out of satin. It was a pencil. I was dressed as a pencil. So I had a pencil skirt that was shaped like a pencil with military epaulettes made out of pencils and then pencils around a high collar. I mean, it was crazy.

Speaker 113:14

But then other

Presenter13:29

You started a degree in theatre design at the Central School of Art and Design, but you dropped out and began working for the dancer and choreographer Lindsay Kemp. Now, he taught mime to David Bowie, and you'd first become aware of him while you were still just a schoolgirl, and you went to see his show Flowers. What did you make of it?

Sandy Powell13:46

I had never seen anything like it, and I was just transfixed.

Sandy Powell13:50

It was glam rock on stage and I thought this is the world I want to be part of.

Sandy Powell13:55

And how did you end up working for him?

Sandy Powell13:58

One day when I was at college I saw advertised at the Pineapple Dance Centre that he was doing classes. And I went to his class and then you literally had to sort of waft around a room and pretend to be a cherry blossom.

Sandy Powell14:11

I mean, kind of excruciatingly embarrassing, but then you realize everyone else was doing it and he was doing it, so you just go with it. And then at the end of that first class, I went up to him and did this sort of, I really like your work, I'm a huge admirer, and would you be interested in looking at any of my work? And I'd done a couple of I'd bought a couple of drawings with me, I think. And he invited me to the pub, and we went to the pub, and I showed him my work, and then we.

Presenter14:28

I

Sandy Powell14:32

Became friends, we hung out, and I did his classes.

Presenter14:35

And you went on to design the costumes for his production of Nijinski in the studio theatre at La Scala in Milan. What do you remember about that?

Sandy Powell14:43

I was like sent a plane ticket and flew to Milan.

Sandy Powell14:47

and turned up and didn't know what on earth I was doing. Were you scared? I suppose I must have been. But I don't know. Or if I was scared I might not have gone. I don't know. I just thought I'm just doing this. What Lindsay taught me and got me interested in was dyeing. I mean ev all the fabrics were dyed but then everything was broken down which means everything was made to look old and tattered. Sequins dropping off type.

Sandy Powell15:10

Things and that's what I learned how to do really with him. Yeah, so all of the clothes immediately had so much character. They did. I mean, I think I even took a blowtorch to something to get it sort of burnt looking and bedraggled. I mean, I he was just such a fantastic example of being bold and taking risks and going for it. And I mean, even just being bold, like taking a blowtorch to a costume. I mean, I got into trouble doing that at a later point where I actually burned a parquet floor somewhere.

Sandy Powell15:40

Yeah. And we we worked in Italy and we also worked in Spain, but his company were completely international. All his dancers were from South America, from France, from Italy, from everywhere. And I remember learning my first Spanish when one of the dancers would run off the stage and say más len tejelas, which means more sequins, more sequins. They there was never enough sequins, so we were always gluing more sequins onto the the tanga.

Presenter16:08

Sandy Powell, let's have your next disc, another piece of music, I think, number four.

Sandy Powell16:12

Oh, well this is

Sandy Powell16:14

La Villen Rose, and it's an instrumental version and this is the piece of music that Lindsay, as Notre Dame des Fleurs in Flowers, made his entrance onto the stage. This really sums up the first time I ever saw him and that show and the effect that whole experience had on me.

Presenter17:03

La Vion Rose, performed by Alan Dunne. Sandy Powell, in 1983, you began working with the director Derek Jarman, initially on music videos, then on his film Caravaggio. What was the brief?

Sandy Powell17:15

The brief was, well, it was about the artist Caravaggio, but he wasn't going to set it in the exact period. But somewhere in the nineteen forties, and it was that you know, that working class, raw look.

Sandy Powell17:29

There was a lot of full as earth thrown at things. I mean, there was a lot of full as earth on the set, so there was dust everywhere, and everything was dusty and worn and lovely. And that's really all the first work I did seemed to be making things look old and worn in and well loved. And as well as. That you know the approach

Sandy Powell17:46

Derek was. To enjoy it staff. We had such a ball. I mean, I thought, great, I love this. I love the world of film. It was not too dissimilar from working in the theatre.

Sandy Powell17:56

Where everybody did everything. I mean, the kind of theatre I did back then. For instance, I mean, we were we shot Caravaggio in a warehouse on Canary Wharf before it became the Canary Wharf that we knew. Unsoundproofed, rickety, big warehouse, shooting down one end. There was a set built down one end. The other end was my costume department with a couple of cutting tables where the costumes we were making things as we went along.

Sandy Powell18:22

Everybody marked in, even the actors. I mean, Nigel Terry would iron his own costume and he would even hide his own costume at the end of the day because he thought we were disorganised and partying too much to actually find his costume every day. So and were you partying? We did party, I must admit. We worked hard all day and then we'd work into the evening and then we would go out to nightclubs at 11 o'clock midnight. I'd roll home at about three in the morning, sleep for two hours, sometimes in the bath, get in the bath, have a bath, sleep for a couple of hours.

Presenter18:36

And we thought

Sandy Powell18:56

Get back up and go to work. I was having a whale of a time. And did you all go together with wi with Derek? Derek didn't go out tonight. No, he was sensible then. Okay. I mean, no, he treated life like it was a party and he treated work like it was a party, but actually he was responsible. Oh, but he treated work like a party. What what did he say to you about that? No, that was one of his pieces of advice. So he actually said that, you know, really you should go to work every day with the same excitement as going to a party.

Presenter19:03

I mean

Sandy Powell19:21

Otherwise there's no point.

Sandy Powell19:23

I think there was

Presenter19:23

Quite a tight budget on Caravaggio. It was 400,000 total. Crazy. How did that affect you?

Sandy Powell19:30

Creatively.

Presenter19:30

Uh

Sandy Powell19:30

Yeah.

Sandy Powell19:31

I didn't even know about budgets then or think about budgets because I was being brought up in the theatre where, again, you make things out of nothing and with Lindsay Kemp you make things out of nothing. It was more of the same.

Sandy Powell19:42

There was one it was for the fancy dress scene, the party scene, and somebody's hair wasn't right. So we needed to sort of create a head dress and I think I ripped a sleeve, a big sleeve off one costume and fashioned that into a headpiece. And then it needed jewels, and so I used quality street wrappers.

Presenter20:02

Just stuck on. I mean, really.

Presenter20:04

I think we'll go to some more music here, Sand, if you wouldn't mind your fifth choice today. What are we going to hear next?

Sandy Powell20:10

I'll Never Fall in Love Again by Bobby Gentry. We're going way back now.

Sandy Powell20:15

Till nineteen sixty nine.

Sandy Powell20:17

I used to listen to a radio show on Sundays called Pick of the Pops with a DJ called Alan Freeman, and my mother, being a secretary, knew how to do shorthand and I would make her write the lyrics to the songs, to my favourite songs, so that I could then learn all the lyrics. And I have such a vivid memory of sitting in our kitchen, in our flat in Clapham, at a table with her and her her pad and pencil and and listening to Bobby Gentry sing I'll Never Fall in Love Again.

Speaker 220:49

What do you get when you fall in love? A guy with a pin to burst your bubble. That's what you get for all your trouble. Never fall in love again.

Presenter21:19

Bobby Gentry and I'll Never Fall in Love Again. Sandy Powell, in nineteen ninety eight, you designed the costumes for the Todd Haynes film Velvet Goldmine. You won your first BAFTA for it. It's a personal favourite of yours. Why?

Sandy Powell21:32

because it's about the nineteen seventies glam rock, which prob you know, those years, the nineteen seventies obviously for me were the most formative inspirational years. And Velvet Goldmine was everything I wasn't able to do at the time because I was too young. So I was able to actually experience it in my own way through this film.

Speaker 221:41

Uh

Sandy Powell21:52

Uh

Presenter21:52

It wasn't long after that that you won your first Academy Award, first Shakespeare in Love, actually that same year, I think. And that's such an interesting contrast,'cause those films couldn't be more different.

Sandy Powell21:58

Think.

Presenter22:02

How authentic can you actually be with people?

Sandy Powell22:05

Period costumes.

Sandy Powell22:06

Shakespeare in Love was set in a period, but it's a comedy. We weren't trying to be absolutely one hundred per cent historically accurate, and that's difficult to do when you're doing something like the Elizabethan period.

Sandy Powell22:17

You know, you can be you can you can try your best, but you can only be

Sandy Powell22:21

accurate to a certain extent because we cannot have the same materials. We don't have the same machinery. The stitches aren't as tiny as they were. Making a Victorian dress, if you look at her original, the stitches are tiny.

Presenter22:30

She was a tiny film of yours, yeah.

Sandy Powell22:33

And when I did Young Victoria I got to actually look at some original pieces of her costumes at Kensington Palace and the fabric is so much finer, the stitching is so much smaller, you can't do it and what we do now in comparison is gigantic and ugly. But then again, people are bigger. You know, people aren't as tiny as they were even in the seventies. Everybody's changed. So in a way it's all scaled up.

Presenter22:55

And how do you manage situations where, you know, costumes might be there might be differing opinions around which costumes actors should wear? I mean, we mentioned Shakespeare and Love before, and I think there was some concern about the the male members of the cast wearing tights from some studio executives.

Sandy Powell23:13

I don't remember. Oh, well, I do remember. I think what you're talking about. Yes.

Sandy Powell23:20

I think what you're referring to is, yeah, the Elizabethan period for men could be those very short hose. Well, the ho hose are the tights, but the very short britches, as it were, the really, really small ones. Those are the ones. And yes, there was some sort of comment about maybe that will look ridiculous and nobody will think that Joe Fiennes is sexy enough or, you know, it'll alienate the modern audience. So what he was wearing is period accurate as well, but a little bit later, which is a britch that comes down to the knee and then he's got a boot that it tucks into, so it looks a bit more.

Presenter23:50

Ah, so that's why I'm not sure.

Sandy Powell23:50

That's where we have a lot of money. comfortable to the modern eye. But I mean, you know, I've had problems for years over producers or executives complaining about things like hats. People always hate actors in hats, and you think, why?

Presenter23:52

Come f

Sandy Powell24:03

And why is that? Well, there are two things. I mean, quite often cinematographers don't like hats because they think they can't light the face properly because it provides shadow, but then, you know, we always figure it out.

Sandy Powell24:12

And then it's just that thing where people think they're doing a period film, but then they want it to look modern because they want the audience to respond or identify. Well, then why do the period film in the first place? Why not do a contemporary film? This certain executive was worried about the hats in Gangs of New York. Are you going to put Leo in a hat? Yeah. Why? Well, it's they wear hats. This is Gangs of New York where everybody has a hat on, and there's a scene, in fact, where all the hats get flown into the air. And I remember saying, Is this a Martin Scorsese film? There's got to be hats.

Sandy Powell24:43

New won the argument. Yes. Time for some more music, Sandy Powell. Disc number six. This is Satellite of Love by Lou Reed. It reminds me and it really brings up all the fabulous memories of working on Velvet Goldmine. We kind of lived the life we worked on the film and we parted hard and we were all in the film.

Sandy Powell25:03

I've never seen myself in it, but I am in a couple of the party scenes. Yeah, it's a 1971 New Year's Eve party scene. I'm in there somewhere.

Speaker 225:11

Satellites gone up to the sky

Speaker 225:19

Things like that drive me out of my mind.

Speaker 225:27

I watched it for a little while.

Speaker 225:30

I like to watch things on TV

Speaker 225:37

Satellite of gloom.

Presenter25:41

Lou Reed, Satellite of Love. Sandy, you work with many of the same directors, including Todd Haynes and Martin Scorsese, repeatedly. I wonder how much input you get from directors.

Sandy Powell25:53

Both Martin and Todd do a hell of a lot of research themselves before they begin. Todd will provide a soundtrack as well as visuals, which is just for mood and inspiration.

Sandy Powell26:04

And Martin Scorsese, you'll get sent a list of films or a pile of uh D V D's to watch.

Sandy Powell26:12

When we did Gangs of New York, which is my first film with him, he made me watch an entire film to look at the shape of a collar, or a pattern o of a collar a whole film, just to look out for one scene of somebody at the theater in a box watching a play.

Presenter26:22

Just to look out for

Presenter26:25

That says a lot about his attention to detail and his visual

Sandy Powell26:28

And he remembers everything. Everything. He will remember the kind of notch in a lapel on a jacket. And remember, if I say, well, that's more 1830s and that's more 1850s, he will remember the difference. And likes and enjoys clothes. So what happens when an actor has a new costume on in a scene is you bring them onto the set, you bring them.

Speaker 126:40

Uh

Speaker 226:41

Hmm.

Sandy Powell26:50

to him, and it's really st he has this strange habit of touching the cloth.

Sandy Powell26:54

Like on a man's suit, he'll just touch the arm, touch the cloth, and then go, hmm, right, okay, yeah, okay, very good.

Sandy Powell27:00

Have you ever been tempted to to keep something at the end of a chute?

Sandy Powell27:04

Quite often on a studio film, they keep everything and archive it. So on the on the projects that I can take things from, I take one or two key costumes. I'm also I also get terribly possessive about them. I don't want them going anywhere else.

Speaker 127:08

Yeah.

Sandy Powell27:18

I do. I do. It's a bit weird. I feel like they're mine, but they're not, and I have to let them go. They're your creations.

Presenter27:21

Yeah, but then

Presenter27:23

They're your creations.

Presenter27:25

And have you ever taken something home from the costume rail before you should have?

Presenter27:29

I did.

Sandy Powell27:31

It was

Sandy Powell27:33

In 1991 we filmed The Crying Game, which was an amazing film. Another one of those low, low budget arthouse films where there wasn't enough money. And back in the day or even now, I mean quite often at the end of a film when there are costumes left over, the production sell them off half price. So there was a costume I wanted that was a Gaultier suit.

Sandy Powell27:54

And I really wanted it for her, but it was far too expensive. I couldn't afford it on my budget. And I thought, well, I know, I like it. I'll buy it afterwards half price.

Sandy Powell28:04

And the film ended just before Christmas and I was going away at Christmas and I thought, oh, I'm going to take that suit with me, that's really great. And I needed to alter it to fit me. I actually wanted the skirt a bit shorter. So I thought, oh, we're done with the suit, we've used it. I'll alter the suit. And then, to my horror, a few days later, discovered that we actually hadn't finished using it and she was going to be wearing it again.

Sandy Powell28:27

How did that phone call go? Uh I actually wasn't on the set and I was called to the set I was summoned to the set saying, Sandy, you've got to come to the set, all hell's broken loose and I thought, What's happened? Why?

Sandy Powell28:38

And it was, What have you done?

Presenter28:40

Uh

Sandy Powell28:40

How did you get around it?

Presenter28:40

Uh

Sandy Powell28:41

Luckily, the scene was in a restaurant and she was sat at a table underneath. I said, She can't get up from the table. I mean, I can't believe I'm telling this story. Really unprofessional. I've never done it again. But uh, you know, mistakes happen.

Sandy Powell28:54

I think we better have some more music. Disc number seven. What are we going to hear next? Actually, this is from that same period of time where I was being a little bit irresponsible.

Sandy Powell29:02

Alison Limerick, where Love Lives, reminds me of Sunday afternoons, day after a big night out, at friends of mine, John and Tim.

Sandy Powell29:14

Who used to provide a lovely sort of Sunday roast when you were on a bit of a sort of come-down after a big night out dancing.

Sandy Powell29:23

It was also a period where I met my partner Alfie, and this reminds me of the four of us lying around John and Tim's living room in Brixton, drinking red wine and eating roast potatoes and listening to this song.

Speaker 229:44

And you've been down.

Speaker 229:49

Say out of your fourth one.

Speaker 229:52

And a bush around.

Speaker 229:59

Uh oh yeah.

Speaker 230:05

Down on that door and left.

Presenter30:11

Alison Limerick, Where Love Lives. Sandy, one critic said of your work, she has a knack for giving her costumes emotional accuracy. She sends her costumes out to do a pretty complex job and succeeds on every count. So insightful and well put, I think. From your point of view, how do you manage to achieve it?

Sandy Powell30:30

Yeah.

Presenter30:30

I have no idea.

Sandy Powell30:32

At the beginning of every job, I think I can't do it. I think I've forgotten how to do it. And I don't know how to do it until I'm in the middle of it. Well, let me ask this question then.

Sandy Powell30:40

How do you know when you've done it? Ha.

Sandy Powell30:43

It just feels right. I just know when I've done it. I know. I mean, ev okay, so what happens sometimes?

Sandy Powell30:49

With an outer and a fitting, I might have two rails of clothes, I might have 20 outfits on a rail.

Sandy Powell30:54

And the idea is to try them all on and find out which one's best. Sometimes I'll get to number five and it works and I go no, I'm not going to do any more now.

Sandy Powell31:03

And I've had assistants who have said to me, but there might be a better one down there at the end of the road. I go, no, this is the one. So I don't know what it is. It's just I know.

Presenter31:12

And I wonder about getting dressed yourself. Spending so long, you know, thinking about fabrics and and textures and all of that. Must change your approach to how you drink.

Sandy Powell31:23

Dress yourself.

Sandy Powell31:25

I dress myself for comfort. I mean, really, I just wear what I feel comfortable in. I wear what's easy.

Sandy Powell31:31

And quite often I wear the same thing every day. Quite often I'm picking it off the floor at the bottom of the bed.

Presenter31:36

It's almost time, Sandy, to send you to the desert island. I wonder how you'll adapt to life there.

Presenter31:42

I quite like the idea of a bit of solitude. What will you miss the most while you're on your desert island?

Sandy Powell31:48

Ooh different visuals, I suppose. Different scenery, different things to look at.

Presenter31:54

Well, you'll have your discs for company, and we'll let you have one more before we send you to the island, Sandy Pearl. Your last choice today. What's it going?

Sandy Powell32:02

This is Tony Bennett singing I Left My Heart in San Francisco.

Sandy Powell32:07

This song I really associate with my dad, and we played it at his funeral.

Sandy Powell32:12

And it makes me very emotional every time I hear it.

Speaker 232:16

I left my heart.

Speaker 232:25

In San Francisco

Speaker 232:34

High on a hill

Speaker 232:41

It calls

Presenter32:41

Holds to me

Presenter32:46

Tony Bennett, I left my heart in San Francisco. Sandy Powell, I'm going to send you away to the island now. I will give you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare to take with you. You can also take one other book. Mobile B.

Sandy Powell32:59

It's called Gypsies by Joseph Goodelke. During the sixties and seventies he photographed gypsies from Romania, Western Europe and Eastern Europe.

Presenter33:08

Was that one of Derek Jarman's references?

Sandy Powell33:10

And this was one of the first books that Derek recommended I use, and it was a major influence on Caravaggio. And it's a book I use to this day. There is a particular couple of images which I use whatever film it is, because it's a young man with attitude that I really love, and there's always something that I could associate him with.

Presenter33:29

You can also have a luxury item. What would you like?

Sandy Powell33:32

Yeah.

Sandy Powell33:33

My luxury item is actually a lemon tree. I have to have.

Sandy Powell33:38

A slice of lemon in hot water in the morning before I can function. And I also thought a lemon tree could be quite handy, it could provide a bit of shade. And if it blossoms, it will be a nice smell.

Presenter33:47

Now, castaways in the past have been allowed to take trees including lemon trees, orange trees, mango trees, and cherry trees. So, Sandy, I'm going to say yes, I'll let you have it. You can have your lemon tree.

Speaker 133:56

Fine I'll be lemon

Presenter33:58

And finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves? Life on Mars.

Sandy Powell34:04

Uh

Sandy Powell34:05

It's the only one I'll sing along to.

Presenter34:11

Sandy Powell, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Sandy Powell34:16

Uh

Presenter34:39

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Sandy. I wonder if she'll make herself an outfit out of palm fronds and seashells. We've cast away Sandy's fellow costume designer Jenny Bevan and people from the world of fashion and tailoring, including Stella McCartney, Vivian Westwood, and Andrew Ramroop. You can find these episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and through BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Gail Gordon, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, and the producer was Paula McGinley. The series editor is John Gowdy. Next time, my guest will be the judge, Rita Ray. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 135:29

Hello, I'm Greg Janner. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me on BBC Sounds. We are the comedy show that takes history seriously. And we are back for a seventh series where as ever I'm joined by brilliant comedians and historians to discuss global history. And we're doing Catherine the Great of Russia with David Mitchell, the history of Kung Fu with Phil Wang. We're doing the Bloomsbury Group for a 100th episode with Susie Ruffle. And we're finishing with a Mozart Spectacular with the BBC Concert Orchestra. So that's series seven of You're Dead to Me plus our back catalogue. Listen and subscribe on BBC Sounds.