Greta Gerwig

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:45

My castaway this week is the director and writer Greta Gerwig. This year, Barbie made her the first woman in cinematic history to have the sole director's credit for a billion-dollar blockbuster. The film takes the titular doll on a fantastical, philosophical journey that's a love letter to Hollywood's golden age and both a celebration and critique of all that Barbie herself represents. Greta was born in Sacramento, California, where she grew up with big passions, everything from fencing to ballet. She initially dreamed of studying musical theatre, but first found acclaim acting in indie films so understated they were sometimes called mumblecore. And then she went behind the camera. First, there was Ladybird, inspired in part by her own naughties childhood about a teenage girl dreaming of moving to New York to make arse with a capital A. The film was nominated for five Oscars. Little Women followed, meticulously faithful to its 1860s setting, but contemporary in its focus, it was another huge success, earning six Oscar nominations and one win. She says, I think young Greta wouldn't believe it. I think she'd be proud that I found a voice as a writer and filmmaker. I always wanted to, but I wasn't always certain that I could, that I was worthy of it. So I hope she'd be proud.

Presenter2:05

Greta Gerwig, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Greta Gerwig2:07

Thank you so much for having me. This is

Presenter2:10

It's a big honour.

Greta Gerwig2:11

Uh

Presenter2:11

We're thrilled to have you. So Greta, you were in the eye of the storm this year, in what many regard as the cultural phenomenon of the year, Barbenheimer, the simultaneous release at the cinema of Barbie and Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer. What did it feel like to be caught up in that moment?

Greta Gerwig2:27

Honestly, I mean, it was such an extraordinary moment of when it was released and came into the world and then there was this overwhelming sense of everyone's going to the movies again. I don't know. For me, so much of when Noah Baumbach and I wrote the script and what was the dream of making it was really this hope of like everyone being in cinemas again. And that was because we wrote it during, you know, we started really writing it in March of 2020.

Speaker 12:50

Again.

Greta Gerwig2:57

And that was just, there was no movies. You know, we weren't gathering. And we I kind of thought, well, if we ever do this again, let's make the most.

Greta Gerwig3:06

Bananagrams thing they'll let us get away with that you would want to be together for. I know that as well. Barbie was somewhat forbidden fruit for you as a kid. My mom wasn't so into Barbie for, you know, certain moms would be like, I don't know if this is a good example of womanhood, or you know, the body type and everything was she was less excited about that. But I got hand-me-downs from girls in the neighborhood where I was growing up, and so I got a lot of pre-love dolls. Although my mom, I will give her credit. She gave me, she did give me a doll, a proper doll.

Presenter3:08

Way with

Presenter3:15

As a kid.

Greta Gerwig3:42

for Christmas in in a box she she relented. Yeah, and then I destroyed her.

Greta Gerwig3:49

Uh

Presenter3:49

Time for your first disc, Aggressor. What have you chosen?

Greta Gerwig3:52

Okay, so this my list is extremely musical heavy because that's the truth of who I am. So the first one is a chorus line, the original cast recording, and I like these original cast recordings that you can feel the room. It's less pristine as a recording, but it's more you can feel the sweat almost, which is lovely. And this is the kind of opening of all of the dancers' auditioning to be in this musical. But I loved it for my whole life. And it had this sort of like.

Greta Gerwig4:26

Yearning to be part of something. God, I hope I get it. Like, I felt like I was born with that yearning. It was just endless for me.

Speaker 24:37

I hope I get it. I hope I get it. How many people does he need? How many people does he say? I hope I get it. How many boys? How many girls? Look at all the people. At all the people.

Presenter4:41

I'm meditating

Speaker 24:52

How many people does he need? How many boys? How many girls? How many people does he? I really need this job. Please God, I need this job. I've got to get this job.

Presenter5:08

I hope I get it. From the musical A Chorus Line by Marvin Hamlish and Edward Cleban, performed by Dan Pippen and a Broadway cast with the Chorus Line Orchestra. Greta Gerwig, you were born and brought up in Sacramento in California. Your dad Gordon worked for a credit union. Your mum Christine was an obstetrics and gynecology nurse. You've described them as culturally ravenous and as artists without being artists. How did they share that creativity with you?

Greta Gerwig5:36

Well, I mean, there was a record collection in my house, which is where honestly, a lot of things come from. It was lots of different stuff, but it was also.

Speaker 15:43

Uh

Presenter5:43

Mm-hmm.

Greta Gerwig5:46

It was like Steve Martin's stand-up album and stuff. Like, it was just this connection to other things like music and comedy and theater. And it was, we had recordings of plays, which they used to put on records. And then they would take me to everything that there was. I mean, there was a symphony in Sacramento, which we went all the time. It was like a lot of like, let's go to every, absolutely everything there is to offer in Sacramento. And then my dad had a couple of work trips to New York, and I went to New York, and I have very formative memories. There was almost a version of this list that had, I saw it 42nd Street.

Speaker 15:48

And stuff like that.

Greta Gerwig6:21

It must have been 1990, 1989, 1990. I was about five. The rush tickets, you're always in the front row because, you know, nobody wants to stare straight up. And I was small enough that I remember just standing when they did We're in the Money and they dance on those giant coins. I couldn't believe it. So I felt like they gave me all this access and then they also just kept allowing for it. Like they were like, she's interested and let's keep going. I don't think they ever thought I was actually going to do it. It was a hobby. It was a.

Presenter6:53

A kind of a richness that you could add to your life, but it wasn't what you're going to do for a living. Yes. Well, because it seems, we just didn't know anyone who did it for a living. So, at what point did your performance gene kick in then? You were born in 1983, youngest of three. You know, were you the type of kid who would be putting on shows for the family, for your parents, for your siblings? Yeah.

Greta Gerwig6:57

What exactly

Greta Gerwig7:13

Yeah.

Presenter7:13

No, I was always putting on shows.

Presenter7:16

I would say that there's there's a look on your face, Gressica, that I can only describe as rueful.

Greta Gerwig7:16

I would say that there's

Greta Gerwig7:21

Now as a parent, you are like, oh man, I really made my parents sit through just uh yeah, I was constantly and I was also doing it all the time on the playground or at school. I was trying to organize other kids into

Greta Gerwig7:37

Reenacting plays I'd seen. I remember, I must have been in kindergarten, explaining to all the kids what the story of Starlight Express was, and that I would be playing Rusty. And I was like, no, no, we're all trains and we're being played with. And we're the steam engines, but they're these electric trains that are coming. They were like, what are you talking about? And I was like, and we're all on roller skates, but I know we're not, so we're going to have to pretend to be. And I think I had a sort of force of will that made people.

Greta Gerwig8:10

Just sort of go with it in some way. I couldn't think of anything more.

Greta Gerwig8:15

That I wanted to do then organized fantasy play with that, that was like what I did.

Presenter8:21

Listen, we've got to make room for the music, Rhett. It's your second choice. Tell me about this disc. What are you going to hear next?

Greta Gerwig8:23

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig8:25

Yeah, we can

Greta Gerwig8:27

Cool.

Presenter8:27

This is a

Greta Gerwig8:27

Pinball Wizard by the Who

Greta Gerwig8:30

And I will say, even of my rock and roll choices, they're pretty musical theatery.

Greta Gerwig8:35

I guess to the kind of just me as a child, like the part of me that was like too much and too crazy, it was like that kind of rock and roll of that time period was like there is no too much. You can go for it. This never fails to

Greta Gerwig8:51

Just make me excited. Like when you hear some of those chords, you're like, yes!

Speaker 28:55

Uh

Presenter8:55

Yeah.

Speaker 19:03

Ever since I was a young boy, I've played the silver ball. From Soho, down to Brighton, I must have played them all. For I ain't seen nothing.

Greta Gerwig9:03

Ever since I

Presenter9:03

I was a young f

Presenter9:11

Nothing like him in any amusement hall That don't like it Sure plays a meme

Presenter9:24

Pinball Wizard by the whom. So Greta Gerwig, you've described yourself as a child of big emotions. Intense, I think, is another word that you've used. Tell me more about that. Tell me more about you when you were young.

Greta Gerwig9:37

I had intense loves and, um, passions and I mean, when I was young I w I wanted to be a dancer. I had studied ballet. I would have spent seven days a week there for as long as I could have done it. I had to be sort of kept from things.

Greta Gerwig9:54

My mom was worried, I think, that I was too I would get too obsessive about. You would get fixated on a thing. Yeah, and I think I realize now that that kind of fixation is not um not everyone feels that, but I had that sort of level.

Presenter9:59

But we can fix

Presenter10:11

Full of fixation. Sadly, ballet didn't work out for you, but your mum persuaded you to take up fencing, and you became one of the best in the States.

Greta Gerwig10:19

I did. I did. I I really, uh I went for it.

Greta Gerwig10:25

Because I was intense and because I had all this kind of drive, I think sports were a very good place for me to put that because I think there's a real structure in sports that allows for that. And it was sort of um my competitiveness was fine. So that was that was always in you as well.

Presenter10:43

Maybe as well.

Greta Gerwig10:44

I got that from my grandfather. He was he'd say, Well, I'll play around a cribbage for you to find out who takes out the trash and they'd be like, Well, all right, I'll do it And I think I just kind of got that competitiven you know. I'm still that

Presenter10:57

That way. I took that from him. What about your relationship with your mum, Christine? She was furrying you to all of these activities. What was the relationship like between the two of you? How would you describe it back then?

Greta Gerwig11:06

I was very stubborn. She was very stubborn. She's really.

Greta Gerwig11:11

You know, extroverted and funny and outward, and so am I. And I think there was like 14 to 18 was an extremely stressful time. You know, you don't come to the breakfast table wearing your pajamas, you come fully dressed. Because if you came in your pajamas, she'd say, Well, that's your way of letting me know that you're not ready for anything life has to bring to you today. Like, it was like expectations. It was like every day, it was like, and and my dad, who's more somewhat more internal, and like she'd sign him up for the bridge club. She's very good at getting everyone.

Presenter11:32

It was a shot out of a cannon.

Greta Gerwig11:47

Activated. It sounds like she would have made a good director. She would have made a good director. She would have made a lot of good things. She's.

Presenter11:48

Thank you.

Greta Gerwig11:53

One of the truly great characters of, I think, I would say the 20th century. She's just fabulous.

Presenter12:02

So she was scheduling all of the whole family, but many, many activities for you. Why do you think you needed so much stimulation as a kid? I mean, I had a

Greta Gerwig12:05

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig12:10

I've been diagnosed as an adult, but I didn't know there wasn't

Greta Gerwig12:14

I don't know, maybe testing wasn't as prevalent. I think I needed a lot of a high level of engagement. Did diagnosis give you a new perspective on all levels? Yes. It was a.

Greta Gerwig12:23

Oh, all of these behaviors fall into a pattern? Oh, like, I almost felt silly that I hadn't recognized that before, but I was like, oh, that makes sense.

Speaker 112:30

before but I was like

Greta Gerwig12:33

I think that's why I love directing so much and being on film sets so much, is because it's long hours and it's all encompassing and it's sort of however much you can ask of yourself to do.

Greta Gerwig12:45

There's always more. That gives me a sense of calm.

Presenter12:49

It's time for some more music, Greta.

Greta Gerwig12:51

Yeah. What's next? Sleigh Ride by Johnny Mathis. Johnny Mathis, I love his voice. My dad loved Johnny Mathis too. And my dad and I have a tendency to break into song. And the song has these sections that are, they just keep going. You can't believe that this song keeps going. And it's like, there's a section that's like, these wonderful things other things will remember all through our lives. These wonderful things that the things remember all through our lives. Just hear those. And you're like, oh my God, it's still happening. It's like we went up and all them and we're still going. And I feel like it has this almost like joy mania. Like there's something about it where I was like, I love this song so much. It makes me just thrilled.

Presenter13:36

There's a happy feeling nothing in the world can buy When they pass around the coffee and a pumpkin pie It'll nearly be like a picture print by Carrier and Ives These wonderful things are the things

Speaker 113:53

We remember all through our lives These wonderful things are the things we remember all through our lives Just hear those sleigh bells jingling, ring, ting, tingling Come on, it's lovely weather For a sleigh ride together with

Presenter14:07

Sleigh Ride, Johnny Mathis with Percy Faith and his Orchestra. Greta Gowig, you went to an all-girls Roman Catholic high school and when you were about twelve in seventh grade you had a formative moment. A teacher pinned a short story that you'd written up on the board in front of the whole class. It was based on a real-life experience you'd had during a maths test. What exactly happened?

Greta Gerwig14:29

That's so embarrassing. It's still embarrassing.

Greta Gerwig14:33

It was the first time I changed classes, and there were all these people and lockers, and it just I felt intimidated. And anyway, we were taking a math test. We were taking a math test, and I had to go to the bathroom, but I didn't know. And then I just was like one of those awful moments where I had peed my pants in seventh grade, and I was doing a math test for placement. And the thing that happened, which was actually so lovely, is a girl across from me saw what was happening. I was just, I was then I started crying. I mean, even telling it now, I just feel so sad. And I was like ashamed. And she had a sweatshirt and she took it off. And she sort of gestured, wrap it around yourself so no one sees. And she gave me her sweatshirt. And then I sort of ran out of the room. And it was this moment of just like.

Speaker 115:10

Um

Presenter15:18

Uh

Greta Gerwig15:26

Just kindness. And then I.

Greta Gerwig15:30

You know, it was just, I got taken. I was just, it was so embarrassing. I like went to the office.

Presenter15:33

It's interesting that you chose to write about that. Because you're emotional just talking about it now. Your eyes are glossy. You're like.

Greta Gerwig15:36

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig15:39

Oh yeah.

Greta Gerwig15:40

Yeah, no, I'm embarrassed by it.

Presenter15:42

It's it's

Greta Gerwig15:42

It's quite

Presenter15:43

Brave

Greta Gerwig15:44

Yeah, well, so I did it. I wrote about it in eighth grade. It was, I think, it was one of the first personal essay assignments. And

Greta Gerwig15:52

She pinned it on the board, and I I thought I was just turning it into her, and it would just be for her.

Greta Gerwig15:58

And then it was all of a sudden on the board and then everybody knew that it had happened to me, if I'm remembering correctly. I think I wrote about it as if it was f funny, but I still was like

Greta Gerwig16:10

Just emba so embarrassed by it. In a way, I think at the time I tried to turn it into something funny very quickly and to take the stinger.

Speaker 116:19

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig16:20

Probably. Yeah.

Greta Gerwig16:23

But, you know, write what you know. Uh, yes, exactly. That's the beginning of that.

Presenter16:28

Greta will find out what happened next in a minute, but it's time to go to the music. Your fourth choice today for what's it gonna be?

Greta Gerwig16:32

Fourth.

Greta Gerwig16:35

Okay, so this is And the Grass Won't Pay No Mind by Elvis Presley. I didn't really love Elvis. Elvis wasn't my person, but a friend of mine said, wait, you gotta listen to it. And I remember this song was like when it clicked for me, what people were hearing in it. I don't know that anything beats like a friend or someone you respect saying like, try it again. You've missed it. Try it again. Listen to music.

Presenter17:06

You can hear God calling.

Presenter17:10

Walking barefoot

Presenter17:12

Biostree.

Presenter17:17

Come unto me.

Presenter17:21

Your hair softly falling

Presenter17:25

On my face as in a dream

Presenter17:31

Uh

Speaker 217:31

And the time.

Presenter17:36

And the Grass Won't Pay Nor Mind. Elvis Presley. Greta Gerwig, after high school you applied to a number of colleges to study musical theatre and you didn't get in. How did you handle the rejection?

Greta Gerwig17:47

I started comedy. Not that I was the best at comedy. It was just comedy was.

Greta Gerwig17:52

Even if you weren't good at comedy, they always need a straight man to have the other people to be funny around.

Presenter17:57

So you responded to the rejection by diversifying.

Greta Gerwig18:01

Yeah, that's right. I was like, now I'm going to do this. And I think at that point, I knew that there were lots of different ways to be part of.

Greta Gerwig18:08

The world of show people. That's what I like. I liked actors, I liked writers, I liked dancers, singers, directors, production designers, lighting designers, stage managers, people who made things, people who created these fictions. And I was like, well, there's gotta be a spot for me in all of this because it is a job. And I think that was a big part of moving to New York: how much I saw just people who were normal, everyday people who worked at it. And that felt made it more like some.

Presenter18:43

Something I could possibly do. So you moved to New York and you studied English and philosophy there, started acting in mumblecore films like Hannah Takes the Stairs. They were low budget, mainly improvised. Do you think of yourself as an actor as well as a director today?

Greta Gerwig18:58

Yes, because I think it's part of who I am. It all goes together for me. Like, one of the ways that I felt that I learned how to write was by acting. You know, you realize why

Greta Gerwig19:13

Someone like Tennessee Williams is a great writer when you try to memorize it and act it. It's almost like some door, or this is my experience of it, some door opens inside you and then you're in a room where all the choices are right. There's a ton of possibilities and everything is alive. You also once said about acting, I sometimes can't get rid of who I am. Yes, that's definitely true. I wish I could more. Sometimes it feels like I have and then I see it and I'm like, oh, there you are.

Greta Gerwig19:43

Like

Presenter19:44

I love the derision with which you said

Presenter19:47

Why why is that so terrible? What?

Greta Gerwig19:50

Uh

Presenter19:50

I

Greta Gerwig19:50

I guess you sort of hope that someone else showed up, you know? Like it it like'cause, you know, when you're acti you know, you feel you're in this imagined world, and maybe you even have a picture in your head of someone who's other than you, and then it's just your face. I mean, it's always gonna be your face, and you think, oh God, there I go.

Presenter20:09

Greta Goerg, it's time for your next choice. Tell us about your fifth disc. What is it and why are you taking it to the islands?

Greta Gerwig20:11

Tell us about your f

Greta Gerwig20:14

This is Moon Age Daydream by David Bowie. I think this is sounds wild, but I truly think if David Bowie hadn't existed, I wouldn't have made anything. I just I think he's so I remember when I heard him for the first time because for some reason David Bowie wasn't actually in the record collection. So I don't I didn't hear David Bowie until I was in college. I was like eighteen and I couldn't believe that it existed. Yeah, it's like it tripped some wire in me that I had always been there and then I was like, oh, there it is, it's Bowie.

Greta Gerwig20:48

And that lyric Keep Your Electric Eye on Me, I didn't know what it meant, but it felt like.

Greta Gerwig20:55

What is this? And I wrote it on everything. All my notebooks, all my everything, text anything I would write, keep your electric eye on me. It had a a weight.

Speaker 221:06

Mama, Mama, Papa coming for you.

Speaker 221:10

I'm the space invader

Speaker 121:12

Uh

Speaker 221:13

Uh

Speaker 121:13

I'll be a rock and roll on this for you.

Speaker 121:17

Keep your mouth shut

Speaker 121:20

Just smoking like a big monkey but now I'm busting up my brains for the world

Speaker 221:34

No electric cars need

Presenter21:38

Moon Age Daydream, David Bowie. Greta Goig, your partner, is the screenwriter and director Noah Baumbach, and the two of you often collaborate. You co-wrote Barbie, as you mentioned earlier. One of your first collaborations was at Francis Haar in 2012. Now, at that point, Noah was the more established filmmaker, and your contribution wasn't always acknowledged. What was that like? It must have been annoying. Yeah, well.

Greta Gerwig22:01

Well, now it's the opposite because now when I are on the street, no, just in terms of Francis in particular, people stop and say, you know, I love Francis and it means so much, and they'll totally ignore him. And then some of them will be like, well, you know, actually, he directed it. He is actually I didn't direct that one. He directed it. And they kind of look at him like, oh, well, good for you. But like,

Presenter22:05

Yeah.

Speaker 122:06

Uh

Speaker 122:14

But I'll be like, what you

Greta Gerwig22:24

But it's funny because I feel like now

Greta Gerwig22:26

Now and he's like, it's okay. You don't ever have to do that. You don't have to tell people.

Presenter22:31

The two of you are are both pretty competitive, I think. Are you competitive with each other?

Greta Gerwig22:33

When you compare

Greta Gerwig22:35

Yeah, but not in the way that you'd think. It's more that, like, he, I mean, he's so disciplined and just.

Greta Gerwig22:42

He's always on. The only way I know how to describe it is, he's always on the writing channel. I can be on other people's channels, and then it takes me a while to sort of snap into it. He can sit down and just start working, and it's so amazing and totally annoying to me. But it's not really about outcome, it's like his ability to just focus instantly.

Presenter23:03

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig23:03

And he just sits down at the dining room table, and there's kids all around him, and he's just working. Just doing it.

Presenter23:11

There's there's no problem doing it. You obviously really inspire each other, but I wonder how it went in twenty twenty, because his film Marriage Story and your film Little Women were both uproscas in the same category, weren't they?

Greta Gerwig23:23

That was actually

Presenter23:23

Uh

Greta Gerwig23:23

Uh

Presenter23:23

Lovely.

Greta Gerwig23:24

That's that that was great because there was a celebration of both of the things we were making and that was amazing. That was not Did you get to vote though? Oh, yeah, yeah, we voted. We we voted for ourselves.

Greta Gerwig23:36

We did check with each other.

Greta Gerwig23:39

Yeah, um

Presenter23:40

It felt so unique.

Greta Gerwig23:41

Yeah.

Presenter23:42

Greta, your breakthrough as a director came in twenty seventeen with the film Lady Bird. While you were on set you wore some talismanic footwear. It had been given to you by two other women directors. Who gave you the shoes?

Greta Gerwig23:55

This was early. I'd worked with Rebecca Miller and she said um she had a pair of shoes that were the wrong size and did I want them? And they were those like lovely British like like men's shoes, like low like a brogue. Yeah, brogue, yeah. And they were beautiful.

Presenter24:10

Like

Greta Gerwig24:13

And I was like, these were my lucky shoes, and they're great. I still wear them all the time, especially on days when I was like, I need luck on set. And then I had worked with the director Mike Mills and his wife, Miranda July. Also, weirdly, the same thing. She said, I have these shoes. They don't quite fit. Do you want them? And I was like, this is too crazy. Like, if you wrote this, no one would believe it. It's too poetic. These women giving me the directors giving me their shoes. I'm pretty superstitious and pretty mystical. I don't know. I'm always on the lookout for signs, I'll say that. See two pretty clear ones there.

Greta Gerwig24:55

Yeah, I think that was sort of like if you're not if you're no if you don't do it now, don't say that there weren't signs, you know, that they you were told. So if you don't do it, y you're you're denying what's being put in front of you.

Presenter25:07

Greta, it's time for your next piece of music. Disc number six please, what have you got for?

Greta Gerwig25:10

This is a top hat, white tie, and tails sung by Fred Astaire from the 1935 musical Top Hat. For a long time, I had a fantasy that I would have a I mean this was from childhood, but like that I'd have a wedding where a bunch of men who were tap dancing, this is so strange, were tap dancing and wearing like full tuxedos. Yes. As I walked down the aisle.

Presenter25:37

Yeah.

Greta Gerwig25:41

And they'd be singing and I

Presenter25:44

Greta, I want this for you.

Greta Gerwig25:45

I know, I know. In my fantasy, there's not really a groom. It's just me and this like male sort of generalized generalized tap chorus. Exactly. And I descend from Sarah as like a reminder of that.

Presenter25:54

Exactly.

Presenter25:56

I'm trying to stay.

Presenter25:58

I just got an invitation through the mail.

Presenter26:02

Your presence requested this evening is formal. A top hat, a white tie, and a tail. Nothing now could take the wind out of my sails.

Presenter26:11

Because I'm invited to step out this evening with top hats, white tie, and tails on. Uh

Speaker 226:16

Uh

Presenter26:16

Uh

Speaker 226:16

Uh

Presenter26:16

Uh

Presenter26:17

Putting on the top hat.

Speaker 226:19

Yeah.

Presenter26:19

Tying up the white tie.

Presenter26:22

Brushing off my tails. I'm building up my shirt front. Putting in the shirt studs. Polishing my nails. Top Hats, White Tie and Tails from the film Top Hats, composed by Irving Berlin and performed by Fred Astaire with Johnny Green and his orchestra. Greta Gerwig, your film sets are known by cast and crew alike to be very supportive environments. I think you've referred to it as a bubble of safety. How does that help you creatively?

Greta Gerwig26:51

I think people make something

Greta Gerwig26:54

better when they feel safe. So I try to give them that safety. And then I don't want all of the ideas to be mine. I certainly have ideas, but I don't want to clone myself a hundred times or two hundred times. I want them to bring me things that I never would have thought of because that's the fun of making movies, is they're totally collaborative. I want to see what I don't know yet. And I want every person

Greta Gerwig27:17

Once they're on the set, to feel that they are the keeper of the story, whether they're a PA or an actor or Dolly Grip and

Greta Gerwig27:27

I think people need to feel safe in order to make suggestions or um because I'm I'm not going to do everything everybody suggests, but that's okay. I mean, listen, if you've got an idea of how to do this, like let's let's try it.

Presenter27:41

It's time for your penultimate disc, Greta. What's it gonna be?

Greta Gerwig27:44

So, this is the reprise or the finale of Camelot in the original cast recording with Richard Burton. I chose the reprise because it's sad, and also, you know, it's like at the end, his kingdom is falling apart, everything's a mess, and he's recounting what it was. I thought, well, for me, my feeling on the desert island, recounting what it had been, don't let it be forgot. There, you know, once was a spot, that kind of ache of what's already gone was part of it. And Richard Burton has my favorite voice of all time.

Speaker 228:20

Where once it never rained till after sundown.

Speaker 228:25

By H. A. M. The morning

Presenter28:27

Focus. And slow

Presenter28:31

Don't let it be forgot.

Speaker 228:34

But once there was a spot

Speaker 228:37

For one brief shining moment.

Speaker 228:42

That was no nice time.

Presenter28:55

The finale from Camelot by Frederick Lowe and Alan J. Lerner, performed by Richard Burton with the original Broadway cast and the Camelot Orchestra. Greta Gerwig, art sometimes comes from dark and difficult places, but the tone of your work is generally hopeful. We leave the cinema feeling that actually people are good. Was that a choice you made early on?

Greta Gerwig29:16

It's not really a choice so much as, um

Greta Gerwig29:20

I think I must believe it. You know, obviously there's very many things in the world that are there's there's a lot of obvious pain and everything else, but I I think I I believe in people. I'm not negative about it all. Although I can have melancholy uh about it, but I hope we uh we find the best way to go forward. And we don't always obviously obviously, but um I do love people.

Presenter29:48

You once said you like living in New York because I like seeing people, running into people. I wouldn't do well alone in the woods. Now this worries me because of the desert island, Grassy.

Greta Gerwig29:54

It's not

Greta Gerwig29:57

I know, that's why this was so hard.

Presenter30:00

How will you cope on the desert island, do you think, all alone?

Greta Gerwig30:02

The thing that is great is I can really just try to m memorize all of Shakespeare, which I you can. You can do it. So that could just be you know, that could take years. That'd keep you busy. That would keep you busy for a while.

Presenter30:15

Okay.

Greta Gerwig30:16

Well, that's the plan.

Presenter30:17

One more track before you go. Your final A choice today.

Greta Gerwig30:19

What's it gonna be? Okay, well this is Ain't Got No, I Got Life, Nina Simone.

Greta Gerwig30:25

I think I'm attracted to voices, obviously. I know I said Richard Burton was the greatest, but Nina Simon's greatest. They're all the greatest, but Nina Simona's the pain and the joy in her voice is both. And I also thought, given that I'm on a desert island, this was a sort of celebration of what you you have and not what's missing.

Speaker 230:47

My heart and soul that my b

Greta Gerwig30:51

I got my sick.

Greta Gerwig30:55

Hugh and Mom got my hands

Presenter30:58

Got my fingers, got my legs, got my feet, got my toes, got my liver, got my blood, I've got life.

Presenter31:09

Uh

Presenter31:10

I got my freedom.

Greta Gerwig31:18

I'm not sure.

Speaker 231:19

I'm gonna keep it.

Presenter31:22

Nina Simone, and ain't got no, I got life. So Greta Gowig, I'm going to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take one other book of your choice. Would you like?

Greta Gerwig31:31

You can

Greta Gerwig31:34

Okay, this was a torturous thing. But the thing I decided on was the complete works of Emily Dickinson. She gets at mortality and loneliness and but then the joy of finding things that you would only find in in silence or emptiness, which I think you probably need that voice on a desert island. You can also have a luxury item, Greta, which you can see.

Presenter32:00

What do you fancy?

Greta Gerwig32:01

I just know I would go absolutely bananas if I didn't have something to write with. Anything, any pen and paper is fine. I will write on anything. But there's a brand called National Brand that has green paper, which apparently is good for your eyes. I don't know if that's true. And it has really narrow rule pages. And then I love Smythson paper, that thin blue paper, and that is a true luxury item. And then pens, I like different, I like the Micron pens, those are good.

Greta Gerwig32:29

0.1 is the thickness I like. I like. I wasn't expecting this level to go to begin with.

Presenter32:35

I'm sorry, I did it to do it. No, I love it. You can't go to a granular food. I'm loving it.

Greta Gerwig32:38

Uh

Greta Gerwig32:39

Okay, yeah, so that, and then if I could pick a typewriter, it would be an IBM Selectric 2. Oh, wow. But I don't know if I can plug anything in. But typewriters. Like if I can get a solid panel on one of those, it's like the typewriter of like offices in the 80s. And when you plug it in and then you turn it on, it sounds like the Death Star. It's like and it's like, it's a sound that makes me feel like, okay, good, now it's time to write. And I feel like I like switching between like writing by hand and then writing on a typewriter because you can type. I can type faster than I can write by hand.

Presenter32:45

Oh wow.

Speaker 132:45

Um

Presenter32:48

Like a

Presenter32:50

Okay, yeah.

Presenter33:12

Okay. This is going to take me some time to pull together, but I can tell you that I'm going to get you a selection of writing accoutrements. Okay, great, great. I can't wait. I'm so excited. Credit going. Finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you rush to save from the waves first if you had to? That's too. What do you mean? You give me a wait last year. And then you say one?

Greta Gerwig33:32

Give me a week and then you just

Presenter33:36

I know.

Greta Gerwig33:36

Uh

Presenter33:37

What? And I

Greta Gerwig33:39

Oh god.

Greta Gerwig33:41

I mean, this is the truth is it's Sleigh Ride by Johnny Mathis, is what I'd say if it's the truth.

Presenter33:48

Yeah. Yeah. Well, then in that case, I will just say, Greta Gerwig, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs. Thank you. And Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas.

Greta Gerwig33:58

Yeah.

Presenter34:20

Hello. I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Greta. May every day be Christmas Day on her island. We've cast away many film directors, including Gorinda Chadda, Baz Luhrmann, Steve McQueen and Steven Spielberg.

Presenter34:34

The studio manager for today's programme was Sue Mayo, the assistant producer was Tim Banno, and the producer was Paula McGinley. The series editor is John Gowdy. Next time, my guest will be the food writer and broadcaster, Delia Smith. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 135:03

To know what it means to be Roman, you need to look beyond the sweating gladiators. There are fresh stories to be told from scattered clues and new discoveries. I'm Mary Beard, and I'll be uncovering these stories for Being Roman, a new series for BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 135:23

There's a young bride avenging the murder of her parents, and an emperor flirting outrageously with his nervous teacher.

Speaker 135:33

Listen to Being Roman, wherever you get your podcasts.