Katherine Ryan

Presenter0:01

B B C Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Speaker 20:05

Hello, I'm Laura LeVelle.

Presenter0:06

And this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is the comedian and writer Catherine Ryan. She's one of the most successful stand-ups in British comedy with the sell-out tours, Netflix specials, and a sitcom to prove it. She delights in subverting the stereotypical image of a stand-up. She has an imperiously glamorous on-stage persona, describing her recent tour costume as the statue of liberty and drag. Her savage punchlines often skewer the bleakest realities of life as a woman, and her sitcom, The Duchess, about a successful, happily single mother, was written out of frustration that she couldn't see anyone telling a story like hers. In her early 20s, she moved to London from her Canadian hometown to support her partner's comedy career. Things didn't work out as planned. The relationship failed, and it was her star, not his, that began to rise. By this time, she was a single parent, earning her stripes on the circuit as her baby daughter slept backstage. She says, For many years, I was the unwelcome surprise on a mixed bill, and now people come to see me on purpose, which is all I ever wanted. Catherine Ryan, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you so much for having me here. That was a lovely introduction. Well, you're so welcome. Every word is true. Now, Catherine, I want to start with you on stage because you do share a lot in your routines about your personal life. Why is that important to you? I like secrets. I love the kinds of people who leapfrog the small talk and tell me all about, you know, their dead father. That's the first conversation that I want to have with someone. Nice to meet you. What medication are you on? I just love that transparency. That makes me feel special and it makes me feel like I have a connection with them. So I try to be that way. I just try to share everything because I want to connect with people and be vulnerable. And that's really just my language of love. And your look is a very important part of your on-stage persona. How did it come together? Well, I always valued glamour. My grandmother was really glamorous. She drove a Cadillac and wore red leather gloves. And that was the best thing that you could be was pretty. And that trickled down to my mother, who's also very glamorous. So from just a natural perspective, I think it's polite to be invited into someone's living room looking your best. Or if people are paying a babysitter and they're paying for parking, coming out on a Saturday night, then you should be the best dressed person in the room. But then when I started doing comedy, there was a bit of pushback where early on in the noughties, people, bookers, men, I guess, would say, oh, you mustn't dress up because the men will fancy you, they won't listen to you, and the women will be angry, they'll be jealous of you. And you have to make yourself invisible so they listen to your jokes. So you should just wear a hoodie. And I thought that was a bit downtrodden for what I had my sight set on. I suppose I was dressing for the job I wanted, not the job I had. So it was a little bit of rebellion. It was certainly rebellion. I decided to go all out and be basically, I joke that it's drag. Drag culture very much celebrates big, bold, brave, feminine culture. And I think that's what stand-ups do too. It's like, you don't like me being a woman, then I'm going to be such a woman. Catherine, it's time to get into your music choices. Let's begin. Disc number one. What is it?

Presenter3:52

I love the Spice Girls. They had characters that all the girls in my school could identify with. And for Halloween, there were two groups of girls who each went as their interpretations of the Spice Girls, five against five. Were you one of them? Which Spice Girl were you? I was always Jerry. I was Ginger Spice. I can see that. I liked the Union Jack, but also I was a bit ginger myself. And I just didn't quite qualify to be baby. I would have liked to be baby, but I wasn't quite blonde enough. You know, there was always a girl. That's the story of my life. Always someone blonder and prettier than me. So I got to be a bit spicy. I love Spice Up Your Life. The opening really got me going and made me feel powerful.

Katherine Ryan4:09

Fuck.

Speaker 34:10

It was ginger spice.

Katherine Ryan4:35

When you're feeling

Katherine Ryan4:38

Hello.

Katherine Ryan4:40

You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 34:41

We gotta go

Katherine Ryan4:42

Uh

Speaker 24:43

Smiling, dancing, everything is free.

Speaker 24:47

All you need is positivity.

Presenter5:07

Spice Girls and Spice Up Your Life. Katherine Ryan, you were born in nineteen eighty three in the city of Sarnia, Ontario. Tell me about your hometown. Was it fertile ground for comedy to be planted in?

Presenter5:19

I think it was because I don't feel that comedians are born from just comfort and being really pleased with everything around them. You need to be shaken up a bit to want to choose such a rebellious path. I think that it's not such a small town, but it's a very small-minded town in the way that there's one industry, and that's a petrochemical industry that I feel must be dangerous, but everyone assures me is not. And everyone's parents work there, and I had lovely parents. I think I had a lovely childhood, but I felt very trapped in that town from a young age. Your father, Finbar, had emigrated to Canada from Ireland just a few years before you were born. He met your mother, Julie, not long after he arrived. Was being funny a quality that meant a lot in your family?

Presenter6:04

Certainly was. I was raised at a time when, certainly from my dad's point of view, I think children were a bit to be seen and not heard. He was busy with work, he was getting on with things. And if you wanted attention in my house, you had to sit with the adults and participate. My mom's extended family, certainly, were smoking at the dinner table, chatting and laughing and drinking at the dinner table. And I could see that comedy was valued. And if I could drag myself up and sit at the dinner table and withstand the fumes, then I could get respect. Your parents sent you to French-speaking school when you were four. Was that a creative place to learn? I was really lucky because, almost like a prank, my two non-French-speaking parents decided to put me into French school. Not French immersion, like full all-French, zero-English speaking English was a punishable offense at my school. I remember the first day of school thinking,

Katherine Ryan6:35

And uh

Presenter7:00

What is going on? Is this the whole world outside my family speaks this language that I don't understand? And they were so strict that because I couldn't ask to go to the toilet, they just let me wee myself. So, four years old in front of all these new kids, they just let me wet myself and then they put me in this orange, she wet herself dry outfit. However,

Presenter7:20

The benefit of going to the French school was at that age, you're like a little sponge. I became fluent immediately, didn't want to wee myself again. And it was a different funding for the French system. So, we, for some reason, had loads of funding for drama and music, and we had a radio station, and we had a school newspaper. And this is only primary school. But when I was 10, I got to recite a poem about consent that I chose from a book. And it was about how you shouldn't be forced to kiss your uncle, kiss your babysitter, kiss your grandma. It was called Des Bézé des Bézés, Encore des Bézé, Gro Bésé mouille de la voisine d'acoutés, a bézé plain dru jalève de la guardien marieves. And I would go on and on in this rant about all the people who thought I was cute and wanted to kiss me. And at the end, I said, Sele men conge envie, comprit, merci. And that means only when I want to kiss. Do you understand? Thank you. And it was a funny poem, and it was like I would never have got that opportunity at any English-speaking school. Catherine, it's time for disc number two. What's it gonna be?

Presenter8:20

I was really drawn to rap music, and I found Eminem really sparked something in me because he was powerful and he was rebellious, but he was really funny as well. I think that Eminem tracks are really stand-up comedy. So The Real Slim Shady by Eminem changed my life. I just thought, hang on, this is funny. I just wanted everything to be powerful and funny, and he was it for me.

Presenter8:47

And I have your attention, please.

Presenter8:50

May I have your attention, please?

Presenter8:53

Will the real Slim Sadie please stand up?

Presenter8:57

I repeat.

Presenter8:58

Will the real slim shady please stand up? We're gonna have a problem here. Yeah.

Speaker 29:03

Y'all act like you never seen a white person before Jaws all on the floor like Pan Like Tommy just burst in the door and started whooping her ass bursting before they first went bored sewing her over furniture It's the return of the Aw wait, no wait, you're kidding He didn't just say what I think he did

Presenter9:17

Eminem and the real slim shady. Catherine Ryan, your parents split up when you were 15. They divorced that year. You say they were a bad match for each other. How do you look back on their relationship now? So my mother was 21 or 22 when she met my dad, and she had never seen a man from another country before. And in Swanse Finbar, just a really tall, handsome, funny man from Cork. He was an explorer. He was like, I'm going to leave Cork with my best friend and start a business where? Sarnia, Canada. I still don't know why they would choose that on a map. But my dad opened a chemical, electrical, mechanical, structural engineering company with his friend. And that was in its infancy. And he met my mom and married her immediately. I think they only knew each other for six months because she was the hottest woman in the town. And I have said, because their marriage obviously dissolved, you don't get married for that reason. I know that you're young, and I know that you have a lot of hormones racing around. And it's my fault, really, because I was this star in the sky. I existed in the universe, and I needed to be born in Sarnia in 1983 at that moment by those two parents. So I dragged their souls together. Tell me a bit more about your mother, Julie. You've described her as being an actress in her soul. Did she ever get the chance to express herself?

Katherine Ryan10:11

Uh

Katherine Ryan10:32

Did she ever

Presenter10:35

My mom was very beautiful and very small and she was very talented and had everything to be an actress or a singer if she wanted to. She has so many talents. She's really funny as well. But she felt chained to what society was dictating that she should do with her life, which is get married and have three kids in your 20s. I knew very early on that my mom and my grandma were frustrated and that they didn't reach the full potential of so this is Dorothy, her mom. Yeah. Your mom's mom. She was an important figure in your life. Yeah, my mom's mom, Dorothy, was really funny too. And neither one of them had really reached their full potential. And I didn't want to be chained to duties of a woman myself the way I'd watched them be.

Katherine Ryan11:08

Ah Mm.

Katherine Ryan11:09

Deuce Nim

Katherine Ryan11:10

Please.

Presenter11:22

What part did your your mum play in developing your later self-confidence, do you think, looking back?

Presenter11:28

She would point out anything that she could see and always say, you could do that. You could do that. You know, an astronaut, you could do that. Things I didn't want to do. You could do that. You could do that. And I loved David Letterman. And my mom said, you could do that. And I just thought she was mad. I thought, why does she always say that about me? But my mother almost gifted me with this privilege of total ambivalence. Like, I didn't realize that anything would be hard because I was a woman. I didn't realize that anything would be hard because I was young or I was going to a different country. My mom just really emboldened me to think that.

Presenter12:02

Well, why couldn't I do that?

Presenter12:04

Let's go to the music, Catherine, your third choice today. What are we going to hear next and why? My mother loved Madonna, looked like Madonna, danced like Madonna, sang like Madonna. She even played Evita in the self titled musical in our local town. And I remember her singing and dancing in the kitchen to La Isla Bonita.

Speaker 312:23

Last night I dreamt of Santa

Speaker 312:29

Uh

Katherine Ryan12:29

Just like I never was gone, I knew the song The Young Girl With Eyes Like Peterson

Speaker 312:37

Uh

Speaker 312:38

It all seems like yesterday, not far away.

Speaker 312:43

Could the island leave all the nature well?

Presenter12:48

It's meant I know

Presenter12:50

La is love, oh me is love

Presenter12:53

Madonna and La Isla Bonita. Catherine Ryan, when you were 14, you started at a very different school to your last. It was English speaking. How did you get on? I was really excited to start high school. I had purchased my autumn coat from the Gap. It was emblazoned with the branding on the back. But over the summer, I had orthodontics that moved my teeth out because I had a very small jaw. And in pushing my jaw out, it created a massive gap between my front teeth. Oh, no. And I was the poster child for like really awkward looking.

Presenter13:27

Just handing it over to the bullies, and they called me Gap. Do you floss with a brick? All these things. But also, it was a bad experience. The school I went to, athleticism was rewarded, and I was very much a teacher's pet who liked musical theater, and it just wasn't the experience that I'd hoped. So, yeah, your expectations had been really high. This must have been a huge shock. I was just not equipped at all for what it took to be cool in high school. I wanted to be tanned, and I wanted to have very blonde hair, and I wanted to have breast implants. I wanted to be for decoration. I wanted to be non-problematic. I hated that the things I said that people used to think were funny or used to think were clever at my old school or in my musical theater group. If I said anything to try to ingratiate people to myself, I was just digging the hole deeper. I was just a weirdo. So, I'm interested in this desire that you had as a young girl to just be this kind of quiet, decorative object. I think that that might have taken you to your university job when you were a student in Toronto. You worked at Hooters. That's an American restaurant chain where waitresses wear skimpy outfits serving a largely male clientele. But you really loved your time there. Why? I didn't really know what awaited me in Toronto. And a beautiful orange beacon called to me on the street corner, and it was Hooters that I had seen in TV and films. And the girls inside looked like cheerleaders, and they were writing on the chalkboard and hula hooping and having fun and laughing. And no wonder I wanted to be pretty and non-problematic because I was very young and very traditionally beautiful and very blonde. And everyone just says yes in the arenas that I was aiming for. You know, maybe I might not have gotten a job as a neuroscientist that day. But I said, please, can I work here? And the manager just looked me up and down and said yes. And I loved my time there. And I know that that's not the right thing for a feminist to say. Well, some feminists do argue that those kinds of jobs are degrading. So what's your take on that?

Speaker 214:12

Hmm.

Katherine Ryan15:05

Mm-hmm.

Katherine Ryan15:08

But as a police, can I work here?

Presenter15:23

I was 19 years old and I was learning. And yes, there were signs on the wall that said girls are flattery operated. I didn't feel degraded though. In Canada, it's just like being a cheerleader. We had a lot of customers going to the sports games, bringing their kids. And what Hooters ended up being was this matriarchy where I got to be around other like-minded young women and just hang out with girls all day.

Presenter15:45

It's time for your fourth choice to day. What's next? Oh, boys, what a curveball in my life. I had a bit of a rescue syndrome. I liked these boys with baggy pants and guitars who used to sit in the street and play music. And one of the first boys that I ever fancied used to listen to a lot of Blind Melon.

Presenter16:03

And the song Soul One is emblematic of all of the early romances that I started to have at that time.

Speaker 316:13

No one's there, I needed the one

Katherine Ryan16:16

Where you now come?

Katherine Ryan16:19

The ones down the song is times, some say.

Katherine Ryan16:25

Open your eyes to a brighter light, okay

Katherine Ryan16:31

Oh my god.

Speaker 316:33

Uh

Katherine Ryan16:33

They will lie

Katherine Ryan16:38

She was my soul.

Presenter16:42

Blind Melon and Soul One. So you said that when you were young you really wanted big boobs. It was you want breast implants from quite a young age and you were still a student when you decided to get them, I think. Were you looking to change the way that you felt as well as the way that you looked?

Presenter16:58

I didn't want to have such a padded bra all the time in the summer. That was my first thought because I had created big boobs. You know me. If there's something that I don't have, I'll just make it. I'll just get it. I'll just make it happen, magic it out of thin air. So we'd fill water balloons with like rice pudding and pop those in our bras. Yeah, like chicken cutlets, anything in there, you know, the sofa cushions, whatever I could get in there, socks. I just wanted to have that shape. And again, I feel like I can be forgiven for thinking, you know, these are the women that I saw, first of all, not only in my family, but also I saw them having a better life. I saw people responding really positively to them, and people responded really positively to me. Once I got my act together, started being more attractive, I had an easier life. Well, you also have the very interesting ability in your life to kind of.

Speaker 217:22

Eric.

Katherine Ryan17:26

And again

Katherine Ryan17:39

Once

Presenter17:49

Explore your ideas about those things on stage, which you do quite a lot. You're open about having Botox and filler, and actually on stage, happy to exaggerate what you've had done if it gets a laugh. Does that feel empowering to do that? I guess it is a power move, but it's also just like I love jokes, and I don't mind if I am the butt of the joke or the joke is at my expense. And I think this is a wonderful privilege to get to make people laugh, and I just don't feel that I would ever be precious about myself.

Presenter18:16

You compared the annual Miss Hooters Bikini Pageant in 2004. What do you remember about the show? How did it work out? To do the bikini pageant, we would push all the tables together and make a stage. And it was a really busy night at the restaurant. And the waitresses would actually put different bikinis on and walk along the stage, just like you see in an American televised pageant and answer questions. And one thing that stuck out to me was the man in the very ill-fitting bow tie with a red face asking us really, I thought, foolish questions. Like, if you could be anything on the menu, what would you be and why? And the girls were like, I would be the hot naked wings. You know, just really, I just didn't like the questions and answers. So I asked my manager, could I be the next host of the bikini pageant? And for some reason, he said yes. I can't believe he said yes. And I took that opportunity.

Speaker 218:20

Do you

Presenter19:05

To be really funny, but also to ask the questions that mattered. So I would say, you know, Annabelle, where do we keep the bin bags? And Annabelle didn't know where the bin bags were because she was not a team player and it showed. You know, I really wanted to weed out who deserved the crown. I took everything I did in my life, I took it very seriously and I loved it.

Katherine Ryan19:16

And it showed.

Presenter19:25

So there was a comedy club next door to the restaurant, and after the thrill of comparing the pageant, you decided to give Stand Up a go. What was your early act like?

Presenter19:33

Oh, I mean, I decided that I wanted to be Sarah Silverman, a very successful and talented American comedian. I loved that her jokes were edgy and I loved that her jokes were shocking, but I didn't have the chops or understand the nuance of what made edgy jokes work, what made them clever. So I think I was just really offensive in the beginning. I would just settle for nervous laughter, counted as laughter to me.

Presenter19:59

Let's have some more music, Catherine, your fifth choice today. What's next and why?

Presenter20:03

In my career, I've told jokes about celebrities and you have to hit the biggest ones so that you don't have to explain the reference. I have told jokes about Taylor Swift. I know that she is the queen of the universe and even my teenage daughter Violet is obsessed. I love Taylor Swift and I even got to very briefly meet her at the NME Awards. She said I was amazing and that is my claim to fame. It's the only thing that will get Violet to push the Hoover around the house is my very loose. connection to Taylor Swift and I hope to meet her again. And at any age, you can be reminded of how beautiful it was to be 22. So my choice is Taylor Swift 22.

Katherine Ryan20:43

I don't know about you, but I'm feeling twenty-two. Everything will be alright if you keep me next to you. You don't know about me, but I'll bet you want to. Everything will be alright if.

Speaker 220:58

Uh

Katherine Ryan20:58

We just keep dancing like we're

Presenter21:11

Taylor Swift and 22. Catherine Ryan, in 2008, you moved to London with your boyfriend. He wanted to try his luck in comedy. Now, things didn't work out for him or for your relationship, and you started doing stand-up here yourself. You got your big break in 2012. You were invited to appear on Channel 4's comedy panel show 8 out of 10 cats. What do you remember about the recording? I was in the dressing room getting ready and having professional hair and makeup done. And I'd purchased this little yellow dress from a high street shop, and I'd really put a lot of thought into, all right, yellow is like sunny and happy and beautiful, and I'm going to look really beautiful and say all these prepared jokes that I've written about all the topics. And I didn't have any shoes just because I couldn't justify the expense of heels when I knew that my legs would be under the desk. So I just wore brown wellies.

Presenter21:59

And you know, I was trying to save money. I remember Hannibal Beres was on the show, this American comedian who's very talented, Sean Lock, obviously, John Richardson, Jimmy Carr, Stephen Mangin.

Katherine Ryan22:06

Chocolate.

Presenter22:11

And I had a moment of panic where I went, oh, what have I done? Like, I'm never going to be as funny as Sean Locke. Never going to be funny as Hannibal, John, Jimmy. I should just crawl out the window and run away. But I decided in that moment, like, well, the rent is due in a few days and you don't have a choice. So you have to make this go well. And you're right. You can never compete with these men. So you have to authentically be yourself. You have no other choice. And luckily, my jokes worked. And then I just got booked, booked and busy from that day. You'd often be the only woman on a panel show if you were doing one. How easy was it to hold your own in that kind of environment? Lots of people describe them as bare pits.

Presenter22:50

I didn't really feel intimidated by the men. I think that that format lends itself certainly to interrupting, to being brave, to getting your jokes in. But I never subscribed to these ideas of what a woman should be. Last year, Catherine, on Louis Theroux's television show, you revealed that you'd confronted a male comic during a TV recording, accusing him of being a sexual predator. What made you decide to speak out?

Speaker 322:59

Mm-hmm.

Presenter23:15

I got a lot of pushback. Like, why won't you say who it is? It's because.

Presenter23:18

That everyone knows who it is. What they're asking me for is the women's names, and that's what I won't give. And that's why I'm reluctant to say that. Well, it's, you know, there are a few women's names that I think investigators are looking for, and that's what they're asking me for. No one's asking me for his name. So it's funny how people go straight to accusing, you know, like, why you're the problem. You won't give his name. And it's like, we're not the problem. I.

Katherine Ryan23:26

Because it was another comic, right?

Presenter23:46

Had a choice. I could go to work with someone whom I believe to be a perpetrator of sexual assault, or I could turn down the job. Those were my options. And so I wrestled with that. I thought,

Presenter23:57

Well, what am I meant to do in this instance? Am I meant to go and like be near someone that I think these things about? To be clear, it's not someone who assaulted you. It's someone that you're not. No, no, I have never been.

Katherine Ryan24:04

That's him.

Presenter24:10

assaulted.

Presenter24:12

The choice is, do I go to work with someone who I think is very problematic? And do I stand near them and laugh and smile and look like I am allowing this kind of person to still be on television? Or do I stay home? And that was really difficult for me. That's what I wrestled with the most because I believe

Presenter24:32

That this person was or is dangerous, but also, like, what am I going to change if I stay home? And so I decided: my compromise was: all right, I'm going to go, but I'm going to let him know under no uncertain terms what I think of him. I'm not going to.

Presenter24:49

Just smile and look like I'm allowing this behavior. I'm not going to let him think that I don't know and that everybody he works with is just going to let him get away with it. So, that is the attitude that I took into the. Show, and did I do the right thing or the wrong thing? I still don't know, but I just felt like, why should I stay home? Like, he should stay home. But if he's gonna be there, I'm gonna be there. And I'm gonna tell him what I think. What was the reaction when you said it? He didn't have much of a reaction. I don't know if.

Presenter25:12

I did it in a way that I'm not sure whether he uh

Presenter25:17

He certainly didn't have an obvious reaction.

Presenter25:20

And I wonder about the reaction from other comics, because if you're describing it, you know, it's one of those scenarios where so everybody knows, but nobody's saying it.

Katherine Ryan25:27

But nobody's

Presenter25:29

What did everybody else say afterwards? What's the reaction been? People really liked what I said. I think they thought that it was funny and courageous the way that I said it. I could see that it got a reaction from other people. Like, I mean, many other people were around. I think it's that nuance, though, of like, did I mean it or was I joking?

Speaker 325:49

Uh

Presenter25:49

But certainly the people who know know that I wasn't joking.

Presenter25:53

Catherine, we've got to make some time for the music. It's your sixth choice today. What are we going to hear next? It's not a happy song for me, really, because it does remind me.

Presenter26:02

Of times that I was really insecure and ambling around London, really uncertain coming out of my relationship with my daughter's father, but this song reminds me of London and being new in London and it's Psychic City by Ya.

Speaker 326:18

I used to live, live, in a psychic city. I never knew what would happen in a day.

Presenter26:26

Uh

Speaker 326:27

I might be looking out the window.

Speaker 326:31

And a friend might

Speaker 326:33

Say.

Speaker 326:35

Come on over over, come on over.

Katherine Ryan26:39

Uh oh.

Speaker 326:39

Yeah.

Katherine Ryan26:39

Yeah.

Speaker 326:40

Yeah.

Katherine Ryan26:40

Come on over, we're having a party for you. Come on over, over, come on over.

Presenter26:48

Yacht and Psychic City.

Presenter26:50

Catherine Ryan, you married your husband Bobby in 2019. The following year, you experienced two miscarriages. And the first time that it happened, you talked about it publicly. I know that you used the word shame when you were reflecting on your own feelings at the time. And I wonder what was the source of that shame? And were you surprised to find yourself feeling it? I was very surprised to feel shameful because logically I knew that it's nothing I had done and it wasn't my fault. But there was this really deep animal shame. I felt guilty. I felt sorry. I felt that I had caused my husband all this grief. I felt that my body was letting me down. I wasn't able to care for this thing. I felt really confused about where the baby was. I didn't really know where its soul had gone. I spoke to a medium. You know, I was really dealing with all these feelings and I was shameful about sharing it because it really shattered this very powerful.

Presenter27:44

Image that I had shared with people for so long, but I thought.

Presenter27:48

It was almost an act of service. I gained nothing from sharing it, I don't think. It was just because once I shared it, I opened this floodgate. I just started to receive messages of hundreds of women and open another

Katherine Ryan27:52

Uh

Katherine Ryan27:56

It's from people.

Presenter28:00

Really sad story, every email, but I just thought I had to do it because I've shared everything with people for so long, and that when I can help people, then I definitely want to. And I'm someone that they go to maybe because I make them laugh, but I felt a real duty to share this and to make that available for women going through the same experience. How quickly did you go back to work?

Presenter28:21

I was working during the miscarriage. You know, because it, and another thing I didn't realize is it takes a long time. Sometimes it won't let go. And that was the most difficult time for me is just going, what's going to happen and why won't it let go? And maybe because it's afraid and oh, I had to like went through all of these terrible emotions, but I had a gig that evening. So we went to the scan and then we went straight to a gig, which I never in hindsight should have. Again, it's my overconfidence.

Katherine Ryan28:41

Yeah.

Presenter28:46

And um I went to Liverpool and I did this hour long gig and it felt almost like I was numb, but it was wonderful to have an hour not to think about it. It crept up in my mind a few times during the hour, but it was easier for me to push it away and just think about the show. Yeah.

Katherine Ryan29:01

Just think profiles.

Katherine Ryan29:02

Oh yeah.

Presenter29:03

I hate to be so old-fashioned about it, but it really helped to just get on with things.

Presenter29:08

It's time for your next disc. What have you chosen?

Presenter29:12

What the good boys in my high school listened to was the Dave Matthews Band. He's a very talented, instrumental band. And my now-husband Bobby was my high school boyfriend. And this is one of the first songs that we listened to. And then when we reconnected 20 years later, he put music on because he was trying to make an effort. And he put this song on, and it just flooded back. It was very clever of him, actually. I just remembered all these wonderful things that I loved about my teenage sweetheart. So it's crash into me, Dave Matthews band.

Katherine Ryan29:47

Your chain tied to me tight tie me up again Who's got the claws in you my friend Into your heart

Katherine Ryan30:01

Sweet laugh.

Presenter30:03

Crash into me, the Dave Matthews band. Catherine Bobby was your childhood sweet on and the two of you hadn't seen each other for many years, but then you did come back together. How did you manage to find each other again? It was wild because I was invited to Canada to film Who Do You Think You Are for the BBC, this wonderful ancestry show that I was so excited about. And my sister wanted to go out. We went out.

Presenter30:36

Bobby came into the bar. He looked better than ever. And that's so annoying about men. Like he had wrinkles and he was gray, but he was just gorgeous. And I always really did love him. I loved him. And I was heartbroken when he split up with me when we were teenagers. But we got together immediately. We spent that night together. And it was not meant to snowball into a full-blown marriage. It was meant to be one of the things that I was doing. You'd kind of thought, like, okay, well, I'll just go there for the anecdote, really, for the story, as sort of like almost a joke to yourself to tell afterwards. Exactly. I just thought, wouldn't it be funny to spend the night together? I really just did it for the punchline. I just thought it was going to be funny. I imagined myself on my high school girlfriend's WhatsApp telling them in the morning. But we just clicked so instantly. He flew to London the next week to see me. And we pretty much decided then and there in the hotel room because I wouldn't allow him in the house right away, listening to Dave Matthews' band. Should we? I laughed. I looked at him and I said, You love me, don't you? He said, I do. I said, We're probably going to get married and have kids, right? He said, Yeah. I was like, Oh, no.

Katherine Ryan30:58

That's rewinding.

Katherine Ryan31:14

I imagine

Presenter31:39

What a disaster. That's not what I wanted. And we were married nine months after that.

Presenter31:43

And you now have two children together, Fred and Fenna, as well as Violet. But I'm about to take you away from that very happy family and send you off to the islands, which I'm sure will be a wrench.

Presenter31:55

I will miss my family and the children. We have such a happy home. Everyone in my house likes to have a laugh. Even the two year old. He's funny. I will miss them. Will you miss performing?

Presenter32:07

No, I can just perform to some coconuts.

Presenter32:10

I will miss connection. My job is all about connection, and that's why I love to be on tour so much. But I think that I could make some friends with some monkeys or mice, or I could entertain myself certainly for a very long time. I love my own company, so I'd be quite happy on the desert island for a while. Well, we'd love to hear one last track before we send you there. What's it going to be? Final choice?

Presenter32:33

This song goes back to my relationship with my daughter and it is 16 Shots by Steflon Don because I think it's powerful and she warns anyone against speaking ill of her own mother.

Katherine Ryan32:44

No gag hands on me about my mother. Sixty shots que go longer.

Presenter32:47

Be shut quick.

Katherine Ryan32:49

Them not a top but they real dunder Put buddy in a pocket my bone like gobber No boy can't dismay my mother Round here ain't safe

Katherine Ryan32:59

Sixty shots, wake up shots and they blood

Katherine Ryan33:09

Ya gonna be better than a kingstony. This my mother then ya ski

Presenter33:13

16 Shots, Stef London Don. So, Catherine Ryan, I'm going to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare to take with you, and you can take another book of your own choice. What would you like? I think that I would take a children's book. As silly as that is, I would want something to remind me of my children. And I think I would like to look at pictures and read something soothing like The Highway Rat. Oh, Julia Donaldson and Axel Scheffler. Yeah.

Katherine Ryan33:13

Six.

Presenter33:39

You can have it. You can also have a luxury item. What would that be? I think skincare is really important. It's a very obvious luxury item, but I am far too Celtic to be in that hot sun all day. And I think I would need a very beautiful wide-brimmed hat. I would need SPF, like an unlimited supply of 50 SPF for sure. And I would like to exfoliate. You know, I still need retinol. And that's not, I know that no one can see me anymore, but the last thing you want to feel is parched. I'll do my best. We'll furnish you with a skincare set and a hat, certainly. Finally, which one track of the eight that you've shared with us today would you rush to save from the waves if you needed to?

Presenter34:19

I think it would power me through, try to get me off that island one day if I rescued Spice Up Your Life.

Presenter34:26

Catherine Ryan, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you.

Presenter34:51

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Catherine. She'll certainly need that hydrating skincare set on the island to keep parching at bay. We've cast away many comedians over the years, including Dawn French, Sarah Millikan, Dar O'Brien, and Jimmy Carr. And you can find these episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and through BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, and the producer was Paula McGinney. Next time, my guest will be the entrepreneur Greg Jackson. I do hope you'll join us.

Presenter35:35

Think you're back.

Presenter35:38

Hello, hello, and welcome to Nature Bang. I'm Becky Ripley, I'm Emily Knight. And in this series from BBC Radio 4, we look to the natural world to answer some of life's big questions. Like, how can a brainless slime mold help us solve complex mapping problems? And what can an octopus teach us about the relationship between mind and body? It really stretches your understanding of consciousness. With the help of evolutionary biologists, I'm actually always very comfortable comparing us to other species.

Speaker 336:09

Philosophers. You never really know what it could be like to be another creature.

Presenter36:13

And spongologists. Is that your job title? Are you a spongologist? Well, I am in certain spheres. It's science meets storytelling. With a philosophical twist.

Speaker 236:22

It really gets to the heart of free will and what it means to be you.

Presenter36:26

So, if you want to find out more about yourself via cockatoos that dance, frogs that freeze, and single-cell amoebas that design border policies, subscribe to NatureBang from BBC Radio 4, available on BBC Sounds.