James Fitton

Presenter0:00

This download is the only extract the BBC has of this edition of Desert Island Discs. The presenter was Roy Plumley.

Presenter0:08

How early in life was it your ambition to become an artist?

James Fitton0:11

Yeah.

Presenter0:11

As I

James Fitton0:11

Not as I can remember. I should think I must have been at six or seven.

James Fitton0:16

When uh

James Fitton0:17

My father, each Friday night when he got paid,

James Fitton0:21

called at the Penny Bazaar.

James Fitton0:24

which was an early Marx and Spencer's, and brought me a drawing book.

James Fitton0:27

H we

James Fitton0:29

On one side there was an outline, and then the other side was a blank page.

James Fitton0:33

And I always used to fill in the b the blank page, but never fill in the outline. I hated it.

James Fitton0:40

Well, my father realized that he was uh

James Fitton0:42

wasting fifty percent of his capital outlay, so that he started to go to the call it the market and bring me home each week.

James Fitton0:50

uh a block of uh sugar paper which uh they use for

James Fitton0:56

Wrapping up sweets. Wrapping up sweets. And this is marvelous paper to draw on, rather like Japanese paper. What did you do when you left school?

Presenter0:56

Yeah, it's that

James Fitton1:03

Well, I left school on my fourteenth birthday and I

James Fitton1:07

There was no possibility of earning any living in Oldham, anything to do with drawing. In fact, my headmaster said this was nonsense, and that drawing and designing was a woman's job.

James Fitton1:18

Anyway, my father was a sensible man.

James Fitton1:21

And he answered an advertisement in the Manchester paper for a designer, a calico print designer, who wanted an apprentice. And he took me down and I showed this man a bunch of drawings and I was taken on. And unfortunately, he was a he was born in Millhouse in Alsace, and this was in the middle of the war.

James Fitton1:42

and within about three months he was arrested as an enemy alien.

Presenter1:46

Oh dear.

James Fitton1:47

And he was interned.

James Fitton1:49

The business collapsed. Of course, what was the next job? Well, the next job, I got a job as an office boy in the first Labour newspaper.

James Fitton1:57

which was a newspaper called The Daily Citizen.

James Fitton2:00

and I had to sweep out the the office and round the chair and empty the water pot of the cartoonist.

James Fitton2:07

Who was a man called Tom Webster, who later on became a very famous sporting cartoonist? Yes, indeed.

James Fitton2:14

Were you going to art school at this time?

James Fitton2:17

Yes, I was going to art school from the age of fourteen and uh unfortunately I was allowed to go into life class, which was unusual.

James Fitton2:26

I was allowed to go in the life class at about fourteen and a half, I think it was.

James Fitton2:31

Until I was finally taken out, because the Bishop of Manchester was Bishop Wilded.

James Fitton2:37

Came on a tour.

James Fitton2:39

to visit the school one day and came in the life class and saw this nude woman sitting on the dais and asked me how old I was.

James Fitton2:47

And I said I was fourteen and a half, which seemed to shock him far more than it would shock me, incidentally. And uh I was taken out of the class, sadly enough.

Presenter2:53

Yeah.

Presenter2:56

What was your next job after the Daily Citizen?

James Fitton2:59

It was a job in a shipping warehouse, and I found that I had a facility for recognizing

James Fitton3:04

patterns from small pieces that came in from abroad.

James Fitton3:08

And very often it used to take a week to identify a pattern. I found that I could do this very often in in a few hours. And if I could do this, it meant that I could have the next two or three days off.

James Fitton3:21

With a clear conscience. With a clear conscience. And I spent this in the reference library and at the art gallery and educating myself. Yes.

James Fitton3:28

And then

James Fitton3:30

Well, I found an even better job still, which gave me more free time, because my problem now was to get as much free time as I could to do the things I wanted to do. And the next job was a job in the docks and on the night shift.

James Fitton3:44

Where I started at work at half past ten at night and work till half past three in the morning.

James Fitton3:51

I slept until ten or half past in the morning and then I had the whole day to myself. I could draw. I used to go back to the docks and draw all day. Until seven o'clock when the evening school started, seven to nine, then back to the docks. I lived the life of a gentleman. When did you come to London? I came to London on my twentieth birthday. What did you do? I came back with a whole lot of drawings. Looking back on it, I must have had a terrific nerve.

James Fitton4:15

But I went first of all to the uh

James Fitton4:18

The Saint Bride's Library on Fleet Street, and got out the Artist and Writer's Year Book, and copied out for a whole morning the list of names and addresses.

James Fitton4:26

of of likely people, and we started at the bottom of Fleet Street.

James Fitton4:30

and worked up and down Fleet Street, and everybody was terribly nice to me, I must say.

James Fitton4:35

I didn't get any work, of course. They advised me, if I had any sense, I would go back to Manchester to my job.

Presenter4:40

What was the first work you had?

James Fitton4:42

Uh I saw an advertisement in an evening paper.

James Fitton4:46

By the standard of the news for

James Fitton4:49

Somebody that could do oil paintings.

James Fitton4:52

So I went to Interview. I I got a reply to go to

James Fitton4:56

I think it was the Lasky Corporation on Wardell Street. The film people. The film people. And uh this chap produced a still photograph and he said, Can you make an oil painting of that?

James Fitton5:07

And of course I said yes, sir, I needed the money, you see.

Presenter5:09

Yes. This was a scene from a film, was it?

James Fitton5:09

This was the same

James Fitton5:11

Was it a scene from a film and uh

James Fitton5:13

I promptly bought some oil paintings. O oddly enough, I'd never done oil painting before. So I brought some oil paintings and the canvas and I I I did a painting of this, and if they were pleased with it.

James Fitton5:23

And I got I think I got four pounds for it.

James Fitton5:26

I afterwards found out they made posters from them and uh I did this for quite a while until

James Fitton5:33

One day he uh gave me a photograph of uh

James Fitton5:37

Of Jack Holt and Gloria Swanson. They'd been at sea in a lifeboat, in an open lifeboat, for about two weeks.

James Fitton5:45

Tempestuous seas, and Jack Holt was in immaculate evening dress.

Presenter5:48

Yeah.

James Fitton5:49

And Gloria Swanson was in a Decalte gown, looking beautiful and and uh perfect. And I did this and sent it in, and this man sent for me.

James Fitton5:59

And I thought, well, this is it, Jose.

James Fitton6:02

and when I went to see him he pointed accusingly at Gloria Swanton's bosom.

James Fitton6:06

And he said there

James Fitton6:08

He said, Don't you realize, my boy, he said we're selling to below stairs maids?

James Fitton6:13

He said, look at that bosom. He said, I want more highlights on this. He said, we're selling flesh. Uh

James Fitton6:19

So I thought by this time I'd had it. So I I was the last poster I did.

Presenter6:24

When did you first achieve the distinction of having your work in the Royal Academy?

James Fitton6:29

Well, I I forget the exact year, but the uh one of the first paintings I sent in

James Fitton6:34

was bought by the critic of The Observer, a man called P. G. Carnady. I think he bought it for Lord Rothermere.

James Fitton6:42

But uh on the year I sent in

James Fitton6:46

a painting and

James Fitton6:48

I received a notice.

James Fitton6:50

saying that the painting was rejected.

James Fitton6:52

And about a couple of hours later I received a telegram saying I'd been elected a member of the Academy.

Presenter6:58

This of course is

James Fitton6:59

I had it both ways, right?

Presenter7:00

Yeah.

Presenter7:01

This was after your first London exhibition, of course.

James Fitton7:04

Yeah.

Presenter7:05

Now for those who don't know it, how would you describe your style of painting?

James Fitton7:10

Uh I would find it almost impossible.

James Fitton7:13

Somebody said uh something in between.

James Fitton7:16

The Casson and Manning which is it which covers practically everything.

James Fitton7:21

Uh

Presenter7:21

Uh

James Fitton7:21

Uh

Presenter7:21

influenced primarily by whom.

Presenter7:23

Who was the great

James Fitton7:25

Well

Presenter7:25

Love in your life.

James Fitton7:25

Lovely. The people I admire, the older I get, the more I admire them, are the people that I think are not basically interested in art, but are interested in those in the source from which art is derived.

James Fitton7:37

And the kingpin of the whole lot of them, of course, is Rembrandt, his whose drawings I think are absolutely fabulous, mar marvellous. I'd like to think I was influ influenced by him, but I sadly enough I don't think I

James Fitton7:50

I am.

Presenter7:50

Do you agree that perhaps your best known single picture is i is that one in the Tate gallery, Frying Tonight?

James Fitton7:57

Uh yes, it probably uh y yes, it does. The last time I saw that was in the

James Fitton8:03

And the s I think it was the Sunday Times, an office portrait of Dennis Healer with Frying Tonight at the back of him. Oh, he's borrowed it. From the tape.

Presenter8:12

You you've been quoted as saying that art unrelated to life is i is of no real interest.

James Fitton8:18

Well, I think it must be. I d i I think the trouble with art today, you see, is that it's it is it is decorative. It becomes a matter of taste. And I don't think art has anything to do with taste at all. Art is a method of communication, one of the first, earliest methods of communication.

Presenter8:34

You like painting old familiar things. You have a a devotion to to your own past.

James Fitton8:40

Uh I don't think it's uh necessarily that. I I I think it's an involvement with life.

James Fitton8:45

I don't think an artist can get out of this time.

James Fitton8:48

I don't think I can get away from this time.

Presenter8:53

You've done some theatre design?

James Fitton8:55

Well, I've done a little bit. I once did the uh

James Fitton8:58

I once did the s the sets for the insect player Karl Capek, produced by Arthur Bascher and Cola Bellew.

James Fitton9:05

And my wife and I had a marvellous time because we went down to De Harker's studio

James Fitton9:11

Arca the scene painter.

James Fitton9:13

And we painted with our own fair hand. We sat up all night for two or three nights painting these enormous

James Fitton9:20

Sales for yes, for the insect player.

Presenter9:21

So

Presenter9:25

Yeah.

James Fitton9:25

Uh

Presenter9:25

Brick

James Fitton9:25

On the frame, yes.

Presenter9:26

Mm-hmm

James Fitton9:27

Uh

Presenter9:27

This is the two of us.

James Fitton9:28

But the whole thing.

Presenter9:29

Of course your your wife i i is a painter too. Do you share the same studio?

James Fitton9:32

No.

James Fitton9:34

Uh she very seldom comes in uh until I finish the painting.

Presenter9:38

Yes.

James Fitton9:39

And she's bare sensible. She knows the problems and uh the difficulties.

Presenter9:43

If one piece of your work, and only one, were to were to be preserved for posterity, which piece would you select? Which one has come nearest to satisfying?

James Fitton9:53

Oh, I think it will be the one I'm going to do tomorrow, obviously.

Presenter9:58

Now, mister Fitton, let's talk about your work as an academician. We're inclined to think of the Royal Academy as an exhibition hall, whether there's a big general summer exhibition and a specialized winter exhibition, and forget that it is primarily an academy, a school.

Presenter10:12

It still is, isn't it?

James Fitton10:13

Yes, it is. It's it's a school, and it's a school.

James Fitton10:17

where any talented student can get in free.

James Fitton10:22

And uh anyone sending into the summer exhibition

James Fitton10:26

can get on the walls without paying anything at all.

Presenter10:29

Yes. How, why, and when was the Royal Academy instituted?

James Fitton10:32

Well, it was uh instituted in seventeen sixty eight.

James Fitton10:36

uh for the promotion of of art and design.

Presenter10:41

Yes.

James Fitton10:42

And uh

Presenter10:43

What main function apart from the uh the exhibition hall and the academy itself does it fulfil today?

James Fitton10:43

What m

James Fitton10:50

Well, for me, uh one of its uh chief functions is that it uh it allows

James Fitton10:57

Anyone, any artist in the country,

James Fitton11:01

To show their work, artists who probably could never get a showing in Bond Street or any of the private galleries have descended to the Academy and get on the walls

James Fitton11:11

and price their paintings a hundred pounds, and sell it. They get a hundred pounds. There's no commission, it's absolutely free.

James Fitton11:20

It's a very democratic institution from that point of view.

Presenter11:22

Do that.

Presenter11:24

So first when an artist reaches sufficient distinction, he is invited to be an associate of the Royal Academy and then elected a Royal Academician. How many academicians are there?

James Fitton11:32

Yeah, sure.

James Fitton11:35

I think it's Fortair, but I'm not quite sure.

Presenter11:38

Now what what are their functions? It's it's it's a basically an honorary committee of distinguished artists which which run the play.

James Fitton11:43

Yeah.

James Fitton11:44

Yes, uh they're as a matter of fact they're they they're all quite individualists and there's I suppose the strength and the weakness is you have uh a collection of members.

James Fitton11:54

We were all individualists and we're all quite different.

James Fitton11:58

Uh you see, when once you get a uh

James Fitton12:02

stabilized and professionalized you it's it's a it's in a hopeless situation, isn't it?

Presenter12:07

Mm-hmm.

James Fitton12:08

You must return.

James Fitton12:11

An individual outlook.