Ronnie O'Sullivan

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. This is an extended version of the original Radio 4 broadcast and, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:48

My castaway this week is the snooker player Ronnie O'Sullivan. He's arguably the greatest player in the long history of his sport, and his career is littered with superlatives. At nineteen he became the youngest Masters winner in history. Last year at 46 he became the oldest winner of the World Championships, a title he's won seven times. He's made over a thousand century breaks, more than any other player in competition, and has held the record for the fastest 147 break since 1997, when he cleared the table in five minutes and eight seconds. It's not just his wins that have earned his place in the history books though, it's how he's played the game. His attack, intensity and flair on the bays earned him the nickname The Rocket, and his ascent captured the imaginations of sports fans around the world. But there were times when it seemed like he might crash and burn.

Presenter1:40

But he kept going, kept winning, and now he says, you're either a fighter or you're not a fighter. It's something you're given. And I know I have that in me. Resilience, courage, determination. I'll have the bad day, but the next morning, I'm back at it. Ronnie O'Sullivan, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you, thank you. So let's start with the psychology of all this because snooker is a sport of psychology. It's often referred to as chess with balls. How do you prepare for a day's play?

Ronnie O'Sullivan2:01

The voice

Ronnie O'Sullivan2:02

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan2:03

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan2:09

I just listened to what you said there, and sometimes I think stupidity should have been put in there,'cause sometimes I think I just do it. You think, why? You know what I mean? You put yourself through so much sometimes, and feeling it and observing it is two totally different things, which I've come to just recently see. And when I see what I put myself through, I think, like, why would you do it? You know, most people would look at it and just go, don't do it. You know, so.

Presenter2:30

What are you talking about? The pressure, the isolation, the travel? I mean, I think it's

Ronnie O'Sullivan2:32

The isolation, the travel. I think it's just pressure because if I'm playing in a room with a friend or just on my own, there's no pressure. It doesn't matter if I'm having a bad day, not hitting the ball quite so well. No one's watching, you know. But when you're pitted against another really good player, top-class player, in a venue, just take the World Championships because that is the one and only tournament, really, which really kind of stands alone, you know, for the atmosphere, for the intensity, for just the nerves that it brings out in you. And it's like trying to play in that nervous state, you know, and the build-up can play tricks with your mind and it can make you go from good form to bad form if you overthink or you freeze or you you know, it just gets the better of you. So it's not a normal situation to go and do your work. Yeah. You know, so that becomes really difficult and something that I don't enjoy really.

Presenter2:35

Trump

Presenter3:20

And it's all about fighting against that, being in control of your mindset as you approach a game. I mean, tell me about that.

Ronnie O'Sullivan3:22

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan3:27

Yeah, because like the more you try and fight it, sometimes the worse it gets. So sometimes you just have to go with it and reason with it and kind of get a different perspective on it and understand that

Ronnie O'Sullivan3:41

This moment is going to pass. I know it's a difficult moment, but give it 20 minutes, give it half an hour. Hopefully, I'll come out the other end and I'll be okay, you know. So, a lot of it is just sort of realizing that things are fickle. Once you kind of understand that, you kind of can then roll with the punches a bit more because you're not so up panic mode. You're going to go, Well, it's like biorhythms. There's two of you in there fighting. One guy's going to have his turn, I'm going to have my turn. Can't have it all your own way, which is difficult for me to accept because for a lot of the time I do get it my own way. And I find that I have this mindset of like, if I could get everything right, I will always have it my own way. It wasn't always like that, because I remember when I was younger, and I was playing better players than me, I was just hopeful that I might get a frame. So, knowing that you couldn't beat someone was not a nice feeling, but knowing that you can beat everybody if you play well is like a drug in itself. You know, when I was younger, I used to feel like them periods of playing well lasted for a lot longer than they did. So, I went from like 12 to 16, when I felt like I was really at my best, them periods would last for like two, three months. Then I'd have four bad days. In some ways, I used to look forward to the bad days because I didn't get them out of the way, because then I'm gonna have another three months good.

Ronnie O'Sullivan4:53

Then when I got to about eighteen, nineteen, it turned around. It was like I'd have four or five good days and it seemed like I'd have like two or three months bad days. So I was kind of like in this loop of like pure anxiety because I was spending most of my time not really

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:08

Feeling like I was in control.

Presenter5:10

You're very keen on physical training. That's an important part of your life. Does that help you maintain your equilibrium through something like the the World Championships? We're speaking just a couple of weeks after they've taken place in Sheffield.

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:12

It's an important

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:14

A f

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:22

Yeah, it definitely helps for everything, you know. For me, just if I wake up and I get the trainers on and I'm out the door half seven, run with my mate, already I'm off to a flyer. If there was a pill on the shelf and you went in there and it says this is gonna make you feel happy for the rest of the day, we'd all be out buying it. Well, that's what running does for me. So I go and do it and it's a guarantee that I'm gonna feel fantastic for the rest of the day.

Presenter5:46

You jointly hold the record with Steven Pendry. You've each got seven world titles. You are more experienced than anyone in this process.

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:53

Yeah.

Presenter5:54

How much do you want an A?

Ronnie O'Sullivan5:56

The records never bothered me, so at one stage I was just happy if I'd got one. That was my main goal. Never thought I'd get one, so if I got one I was like, Okay, they can never say I'm one of the best players to have never won the World Championship, so that was a massive weight off my shoulders.

Ronnie O'Sullivan6:10

After that I always remembered how I felt.

Ronnie O'Sullivan6:14

The possibility of not winning one. So, to win two, three, four, it didn't really matter. And I've never chased them because it was never something that I felt capable of doing.

Presenter6:23

So what keeps you coming back, bearing in mind how gruelling it can be?

Ronnie O'Sullivan6:25

I've taken time off before and it doesn't suit me. It doesn't suit me to be not doing nothing. You know, I get a little bit bored and a lot of the things that I love, like the running and the keep fit and taking time out, is only because I play snooker. If I wasn't to play snooker, I'd become very lazy. I won't get up in the morning. I'll lay in and, you know, that's not good for me. So in a way, snooker allows me to do all the things that I love doing, like the hobbies. So running, go to the gym. Not having a boss, being able to just decide what I want to do where and when is a great luxury. You know, I wouldn't be good if I was an employee where someone says, you know what, you've got to be here that day, that day, and I had to ask permission for like days off. I don't plan anything. It's sort of like all made up on the spot, which really works for me, you know.

Presenter7:08

Well, we want to dig into all your passions and interests, as many as we can anyway, in the time that we've got, Ronnie. And of course, the next to discuss is music, because you're going to be sharing your discs with us today.

Ronnie O'Sullivan7:18

Thus today

Presenter7:19

Tell us about your first choice.

Ronnie O'Sullivan7:21

First choice was Monym Lose yourself.

Presenter7:25

And why have you gone for it?

Ronnie O'Sullivan7:26

My first real turning point I suppose in trying to get back on track was when I met this guy called Pete Cohen who's a really good friend of mine. He was a life coach. He was the first person for me to start looking into how to sort of make myself more optimum level thinking wise, you know. So he was a big music guy and we talked about Eminem who was just coming on the scene at the time. It was massive and it was just lose yourself and it was just that one shot, one moment and it was like he was big on just that one shot. It was like, you know, we've got one shot of this and I kind of like remember that was a big turning point for me.

Speaker 38:08

Look.

Speaker 38:10

If you had

Speaker 38:13

One shot

Speaker 38:15

One opportunity.

Speaker 38:17

This is everything you ever wanted.

Speaker 38:20

One moment.

Speaker 38:22

To capture

Speaker 38:24

Just let it slip. Yo!

Speaker 38:27

His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy, there's vomit on his sweater already, mom spaghetti, he's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to drop palms, but he

Presenter8:38

Min M and lose yourself. So Ronnie O'Sullivan, I want to ask you about that Guinness World record for the fastest competitive one four seven break. You know, I watched it back the other day and it's just the most extraordinary moment, five minutes and eight seconds, nineteen ninety seven.

Presenter8:53

And I felt like it's palpable the atmosphere in the room becoming more and more charged as the crowd starts to realize what's happening and you're clearing the table from pin drop silence to just absolute bedlam as you pop that last ball. I mean

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:02

Pro

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:05

They're just out.

Presenter9:08

When did you last watch it back?

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:10

I don't watch that one back'cause that reminds me of when my game wasn't in a good shape, you know. Although I made the 147, I wasn't really playing good enough snooker or consistent enough to win the World Championship. So for me looking back at that time, it's not a good thing, but obviously you're forced to watch it sometimes because

Presenter9:28

So hang on, an almost 30-year record that many think will never be broken, and you're looking at it thinking, oh, I wasn't doing very well back then.

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:30

It's fair.

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:33

Thank you.

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:34

It's not an important record though. It's like one of them like in the snooker world, what is more impressive than anything is just consistency. It's about being able to churn it out ball after ball, match after match, becoming this like rock. And at that time I was anything but a rock, but I could do moments of magic, but I didn't want to be known for moments of magic.

Presenter9:53

But isn't it interesting that you say that? Because people love that and many others will say that that's part of your magic. But I know that you've always admired the guys who are consistent. For you, they're the

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:56

Yeah, there's

Ronnie O'Sullivan9:59

But I know that

Ronnie O'Sullivan10:03

Yeah.

Presenter10:04

They're the kind of

Ronnie O'Sullivan10:05

Kind of heroes, right? Yeah, because when I had that one four seven

Ronnie O'Sullivan10:09

The guy that won the tournament, I wanted to be him. I didn't want to be the guy collecting the nice big check that they give you for the 147. I was like, I'd give all that up just to get my hands on that trophy. So at that moment, I was like, I need to be where he is. And what do I need to do to get where he is lifting that trophy? And I need to, like, basically take my game apart. So I had to kind of start again and build myself into this player that could survive 17 days at the Crucible and perform under pressure. That five minutes and eight seconds, yeah, it was brilliant. But I lost the next match because I was just hit and miss. This hit and miss in snooker or in sport in general doesn't get you very far. Now, the guys that get far are the ones that can maintain a high level for long periods of time. So snooker, it's not about moments, it's about long periods of time of just being good.

Presenter11:00

There's so many questions I could ask. But I think before we s talk about starting again, we should go back to the beginning, back to your start. When you first picked up a queue, I know that your dad gave you your first queue and got you started in the game when you were seven years old. Where did you play?

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:02

Before

Speaker 111:02

Uh

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:05

Back to your

Speaker 111:05

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:09

As kids

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:11

Yes.

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:13

Everywhere. You know, my dad used to put me in the car. He'd go, Right, we're going to City Road today. I'm going to drop you off. You'll be all right there. I'll come and get you a late run tonight. I'll be like

Presenter11:24

So he'd drop me off at the snooker hall in port East London, that would have been.

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:26

Yeah, what is it?

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:27

Yeah, so City Road was like I think it was up by not far from King's Cross.

Presenter11:32

He would have dropped you off at seven.

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:34

About eight years of age, I'd say. So, yeah, he dropped me off there. But my dad was like an East End guy, so he knew he had the gift of the gab and he'd go in and he'd go, I want my boy, he's a bit younger come here. Here's the money for him to play all day, let him do what he wants, you know what I mean? Just make sure he behaves and just keep an eye on him.

Presenter11:49

So there'll be someone behind the bar keeping an eye on you too.

Ronnie O'Sullivan11:51

Yeah, my dad used to call it a creche. He went, it was the best place for you to be. He said, I couldn't do my work, but I knew you were safe. You weren't out on the streets being naughty, getting like up to no good. He said, I can leave you in the snooter and go, He's all right there.

Presenter11:54

For you to be.

Presenter11:55

Wow.

Presenter12:00

Okay.

Ronnie O'Sullivan12:03

And it was just lucky enough that I l used to like the game as well, so it was a good crush.

Presenter12:03

How can

Presenter12:08

And how long was it before you and your dad realized that you had something special? You were really good.

Ronnie O'Sullivan12:13

Him sooner than me because obviously I didn't realize you know that I could play this game well. I just used to love playing, but he was always telling people, My boy's 10 years of age at the moment, and he's going to be world champion. And a lot of people come up to me now and go, Everyone says their son's going to be this and that. He said, But he was right. And I have quite a few people come up to me. So he obviously had big faith in me, but I never did. I don't think you can as a kid. You know, I don't know. I hear some of these people say, Oh, I knew I was going to be this. I never knew what I was going to be. I just, it was scary the thought of, like, what, you're going to be the best player in the world, you're going to be world champion. Why me?

Presenter12:48

But did you love it?

Ronnie O'Sullivan12:49

I loved it. Yeah, I loved playing. I loved playing the game. Enjoyed it. Couldn't keep me off the table. Play for like seven, eight, nine hours. No problem. Just wanted to do it all the time. In fact, both my parents would would make me not go to tournaments and make me go football instead.

Presenter12:50

Yeah.

Presenter13:04

So was it a little bit obsessive then?

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:06

Could have been and, you know, being in snooker halls wasn't seen as the most healthiest thing. It was a bit of a misspent youth. I know in the eighties it started getting a really, really good sport to do, but really you wanted your kids out playing football on their bike or over a park like yeah, fresh air. You don't want them cooped up in a snooker billiard hall all day long, smoking this, that, loads of older people.

Presenter13:17

Yeah.

Speaker 113:17

Fresh airplane.

Speaker 113:22

Smoke

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:25

'Cause in snookers you can grow up too quick, which I did, but'cause you're around adults all the time, so you have to learn how to you mimic.

Speaker 113:28

Yeah.

Presenter13:28

But

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:32

Who the people you ran, really?

Presenter13:33

And were you lost in it? Would it be that thing of forgetting to eat?

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:34

Would it be that

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:36

I would order my food and they'd go, Ronnie, food's ready and I'd run out. I would always keep my queue on the table and balls on the table and the light on'cause I didn't want to lose my table and I didn't want to lose whatever was going on the table and I'd run out and I'd scoff my food down and I'd be bumped back out on the table. And it's only now that

Ronnie O'Sullivan13:53

I get people come up to me and they go, We knew you was going to make it because of my enthusiasm for the game.

Presenter13:59

You must have been a little kid playing at adult sized tables.

Ronnie O'Sullivan14:03

Yeah, when I was eight, first time I I played on a full size table. Obviously scared by the the size of it when I first see a full size table. And I grew up just playing in a in a man's world from from the age of eight really and I was p competing against men from the age of ten onwards, winning junior tournaments from eleven, winning amateur tournaments against professionals when I was twelve. So you've got this little kid playing professionals that were on T V and beating them.

Ronnie O'Sullivan14:29

But even then I didn't think I was good enough to be a top class player.

Ronnie O'Sullivan14:34

Uh

Presenter14:34

It's time to go to the music runner. Your second choice today. What are we going to hear for disc number two?

Ronnie O'Sullivan14:38

We've got careless whisper.

Presenter14:40

Careless whisper.

Ronnie O'Sullivan14:41

I love Jules Michael and the older I get, the more you kind of like look back on some of his old sort of videos and some of the sort of stuff that he was saying and I just thought he was just a genuine, lovely guy who was very smart, didn't s kinda buy into all what everyone else seems to buy in. He was a bit ahead of his time. Liked him a lot.

Speaker 315:27

I feel so unsure.

Speaker 315:33

As I take your hand

Speaker 315:35

And the

Speaker 315:36

The dance floor

Speaker 315:40

As the music dies

Speaker 315:43

Something in your eyes calls to mind a silver screen And oh it's sad goodbye I'm never gonna dance again Guilty feet have got no rhythm But we'll see

Presenter16:00

Wham and careless whisper. So, Ronnie, you were born in nineteen seventy five to Ronnie Senior and Maria O'Sullivan. What were your early childhood memories growing up in Essex with them?

Ronnie O'Sullivan16:10

Early childhood memories was Eaton Road, living occ opposite Locksford High School, playing football with my neighbour Darren. I always remember it was fun, do you know what I mean? I always remember the house was just full of energy, full of fun. My dad was a people's person. There was always people in and out of the house. There was like characters like Shaking Ted, this one, that one and I'm like, you know

Presenter16:36

Shaking Ted, any relation to Stevens or?

Ronnie O'Sullivan16:38

He wasn't.

Ronnie O'Sullivan16:41

But it was just all these different characters that I would meet. And then when I look back on it, I think it was like it was good times, you know, it was good times. And my dad was out grafting. My mum was home when she had my my sister. So it was nice, you know. So your mum

Presenter16:53

So your mum was Maria was from Sicily. Yeah. And she was a good cook, I think.

Ronnie O'Sullivan16:55

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan16:56

Fantastic cook, yeah. I grew up just eating proper food, you know, when I saw that home cooked food, ev everything was done from scratch. Real good Sicilian pasta.

Presenter17:06

And obviously, you know, you've described your fascination and focus at the snooker table. What about your schoolwork? What kind of kid were you in the classroom?

Ronnie O'Sullivan17:10

Snookity

Ronnie O'Sullivan17:13

I was useless. I was no good at school. I used to like PE and I didn't mind a bit of history and still do like a bit of history. I wasn't really interested in school. I didn't really want to learn. Cooking was alright. I didn't mind a bit of cooking. I couldn't wait to get out of school to be honest with you. I mean, as a kid, yeah, no, it didn't didn't work for me at school. I'd be at school thinking, like, why am I here? I just want to go and play snooker. So my main thing was I couldn't wait for the bell to ring.

Speaker 117:31

So

Ronnie O'Sullivan17:34

Get my rucksack on, get out of that school gate as quickly as I could, and run across Redbridge roundabout, which was a massive roundabout. And instead of going under the underpass, because if I went under the underpass, I weren't making that bus. So I used to run across the road, run across the roundabout, run across the road again, and I'd literally just make the bus, get home, and I'd get a cab and I'd be straight up snoo crawl. So my whole day was fixed around that bell going and thinking, right, my last class is here, so it's going to take me an extra minute to get round towards home. And so it was a bit hit and miss whether I'd make the bus. If I had a game of football, then I go, oh, I'll quite look forward to that. But I wasn't academic, wasn't interested in learning, found it very boring, didn't like sitting at a desk.

Presenter18:15

So it wasn't the the nine till half three. It was what happened afterwards. That was the real part of your life that was alive.

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:19

Uh Yeah.

Speaker 318:20

Yeah.

Speaker 318:21

Yeah.

Presenter18:22

You were earning proper kind of tournament winnings while you were at school, right? You started winning some quite important tournaments and fairly big sums of money. How much are we talking about that?

Speaker 318:26

Right he started.

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:29

I'm sorry.

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:32

I think on average from the age of like 12 onwards, I was probably making like between 20 and 25 grand a year. Wow.

Presenter18:38

Wow.

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:39

Yeah, cash as well. So I wasn't paying tax in as well. So that's the equivalent of 50. So that was just. Yeah.

Presenter18:40

Cash as well, so

Presenter18:46

So would you have been earning more than your teachers then?

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:47

Yeah. Yeah. And some weekends I'd come in with three grand and I was like fourteen.

Presenter18:51

How did your school friends see you, I wonder? Were you a a boy wonder? Were they all back in you, or was there a bit of jealousy there as well? No, no.

Ronnie O'Sullivan18:57

Not really, because snooker wasn't the sport. Everyone was like football. So there were other kids at school who were really good at football, and they were like the talk of the school. You know, he's a great footballer, he's going to be this. So no one really paid any attention to the school. You were on top of it. Yeah, the only time I kind of got people got a bit excited was when I said to my mates, he says, Right, should we have fish and chips? They went, yeah, we love that. I said, how much money you got? And they went, I've got a pound for lunch. I went, well, how much? So we get a fiver. We all had a pound each. I went, right, I'm going down to Snooker Club. I said, I'll turn that into 20 quid, no problem. I said, you're up for it. And they went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Presenter19:08

So you were under the radar?

Ronnie O'Sullivan19:29

So I went down there and I knew him in there. I said, Do you want to game a snooze? He went, Yeah, all right. I said, I'll give you 14 stars, six reds. I've got like 20 minutes to get this done. And I went, bam, man. Got the 20 quid. I went, right, let's go and have fishing chips. And they went, that was amazing. I went, so I've got them all their fish and chips. Then we walked back to school, and that was it. And I used to do that every lunchtime for my mate. So

Presenter19:47

How old would you have been then?

Ronnie O'Sullivan19:49

Twelve. I was good.

Presenter19:50

Yeah.

Presenter19:52

Fish and chips definitely like the love language of of most twelve year olds.

Ronnie O'Sullivan19:55

Or Savoloy in chips it was at the time. I used to I was partial to a Savaloy

Presenter19:56

Next slide.

Presenter20:00

It's time for some more music, Ronnie. Your third disc today. What are we going to hear next?

Ronnie O'Sullivan20:04

Yeah, Whitney Houston step by step. In the drive from my house to the forest I get the chance to listen to three songs and this is one of them and it just a feel-good song, you know, just sort of like going to run. It just gets me in the mood. Where do you like to run? I go over Hainock Forest. No one really knows about it and once you get out to a certain part you don't see a soul and you're just out in the woods on your own and you've got the mud, the hills, the this and that. So Hainock Forest is my favourite place to run really.

Presenter20:17

Where do you like to run?

Speaker 320:31

Cause I'm checking it

Speaker 320:33

Step by step

Speaker 320:38

It's the first time.

Speaker 320:42

Don't buy stone yeah

Speaker 320:46

Bye, Brady.

Speaker 320:48

I

Speaker 320:50

Step by step

Speaker 320:54

Day by day

Speaker 320:58

Bye-bye, mother.

Presenter21:02

Winton Houston and step by step. Ronnie O'Sullivan, you won the British Under sixteen Championship at just thirteen years old. At what point did you start to think you could become a professional snooker player?

Ronnie O'Sullivan21:15

I think the first time I thought I'm good at this game was when I was twelve and I won a tournament at Barking, which was my home club and it was a Pro-Am tournament and it's all like all the best amateurs in the country would travel every weekend. This weekend it was at Barking and the best I'd done was like I think I got to like uh a last thirty-two which was I won two matches. I managed to get to the last sixteen. It was like new territory for me and I was like mm okay and all of a sudden

Speaker 121:40

Nope.

Ronnie O'Sullivan21:42

My game just clicked. I was like, I played this guy and I just felt like I couldn't miss. For the first time in my life, I thought, I'm gonna clear this table. Like, you give me a chance, and I'm gonna clear this table. There's no doubt in my mind. Do you know what I mean? Like and it was like bang, long red, eighty, bang, long red, seventy, bang, long red, under. And I shook it and I'm in the quarters and I'm thinking

Ronnie O'Sullivan22:01

So I'm in the quarters now, but I feel a different player. And I thought, hmm, if I can keep this going, you never know. Bang, won the quarters, won the semis. And now I'm in the final. I'm thinking, like, this is like fairyland. You know, this isn't meant to happen. And I had this guy in the finals, a brilliant player, top amateur, good money player, knew every trick in the book. Best of five. He was playing well. And I beat him 3-2. And I got a check for like 600 quid and I got the trophy. It was like half 10, 11 o'clock at night. I'm thinking, this is unbelievable. And that's the first time in my life where I thought, you know what?

Ronnie O'Sullivan22:37

I can play this game.

Presenter22:39

And was there ever a Plan B after that, or was it to snook all the way?

Ronnie O'Sullivan22:42

Never a plan B. I always can tell when someone else is going to make it. They don't have a plan B. I think once you've just got that in your head, there's no stopping you really. And when I hear people go, Oh, if I don't make it, I think you ain't making it. You got no chance. Not unless, like, there's you know, like in football, there's 4,000 players that can make it into certain divisions. There's lots of divisions around the world. But in Snooker, there can only be one world champion, one best player in the world, out of all the people on the planet. And if you ain't like fully committed, it's impossible. The only plan I was getting that bus.

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:16

That was making the bus to get to the snooper. That was the most important thing in my life.

Presenter23:16

Making it supposed to get to the snoophole on time.

Presenter23:20

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:20

I'm not getting that bus.

Presenter23:22

So in your early days, your dad was your manager, but you mentioned that he also did quite well in business himself. He ran a chain of sex shops in Soho. Did you know about his day job back then? Did you understand what it was?

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:23

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:25

Um

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:26

Also did

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:28

Selfie

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:30

So

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:34

Yeah, yeah. I mean uh obviously our garage was full up with

Ronnie O'Sullivan23:37

dirty videos and dirty magazines, you know, like I was like I was never like oh like shelter to it. Like I say shaking Ted would come around, he was like selling the magazines, but my dad would be buying off him. You know, I'd be getting in the car, my dad going up the west end, boot full of like magazines, videos. I'd get dropped off of the snooker club. Sometimes I'd go to Soho and he'd kind of like, what, you were meet a day and like and I'd walk around the shops and listen, I enjoyed it. It was a life experience. My dad knew everyone, right, Ronnie, right, Ronnie, all right, Ted, right? You know, he knew everyone up there. It was like we was in Bruno's CAF, we was here, we was in the Italian Delhi, getting the stuff to take home. Like my dad, he was like a a resident of Soho.

Presenter24:16

He was quite out there as a character by the centre.

Ronnie O'Sullivan24:18

As a character by the sound of the game.

Ronnie O'Sullivan24:22

Smart.

Ronnie O'Sullivan24:24

Quite clever. Bit Roy, you know, if you could have polished that up, he could have become a CEO of any sort of company, you know, but he wasn't privy to that upbringing or that education. But he had that desire, he had that forward thinking, you know. He was up the West End, there was no one better. He said, I don't care what you say, it was the best business in the world. He said, I used to wait till mid every midnight, he said, I'd hit they used to have to drop the wages off. He said, I could tell by the fud on the floor if they'd had a good day or a bad day. He said,'Cause if it was a good day, it was a heavy bang on the floor. And that's all he used to wait for. So in the end, he didn't really work. It was just sort of like delegating and you know, he had must have had about 30 staff, 40 staff at one point.

Presenter25:04

I can see it in your eyes how much you adored your parents. But did you have a sense that it wasn't.

Ronnie O'Sullivan25:05

And

Ronnie O'Sullivan25:07

Yeah.

Presenter25:09

An average job, let's say it wasn't a kinda normal job that they had.

Ronnie O'Sullivan25:14

Not really. That's all I was brought up in, you know. It was sort of. It was like a bit of a.

Ronnie O'Sullivan25:20

How can I say? It was a bit like a bit of a mafia, you know, the empire. Like my dad used to work for a couple of guys who had all the shops up the West End and they were the big bosses and we used to go around their house every weekend and they'd have these big ass swimming pools and Rolls-Royces and this and that and we'd turn up in a little fiesta at RXR2 and that was good for my dad. Bought their house but he was just an employee and then one day they got closed down. And they was like, oh, oh, we don't want to take the risk. And my mum went, you get back up there and start opening your shop up. And he went, really? And she went, yeah. So he got up there, got his first shop and I helped him kit it out in Berwick Street, I think it was. And then within two, three years, he was snapping up every shop up there because he was on time of his payments. He was three months ahead. He went, there's three months ahead. And no one wanted to pay their rent. But he was like, you know what? Your money's up front. He run a good operation.

Presenter26:12

I'm wondering about you as a kid who then goes to school and it's like, well, what does little Johnny's dad do? Someone's mum's a nurse, the next person's data fireman. I mean, like, there must have been a bit of that. Was there a lot of stuff?

Ronnie O'Sullivan26:18

Isn't that

Ronnie O'Sullivan26:22

I just got that more at the snooker club because there was other kids up there whose mum and dads had normal jobs and they would like mum and dad would bring their son to the club and they would sit there and watch their son play and take him home. I used to get a cab to the club. I used to have my own money. I used to like I had m you know and then I realized then that like my dad would just turn up

Speaker 126:33

Press.

Ronnie O'Sullivan26:42

meet me up there and he'd have his roof down in the car and he'd buy everyone in there, lunch, dinner, teas,'cause no and snooker players had no money. And that's when I was like, Okay, my daddy's l a lot different to everybody else. So mine was more it was more in my face at a snooker hall.

Ronnie O'Sullivan26:57

than it ever was at school.

Presenter26:59

Let's go with the music, Ronnie. It's your fourth choice today. What have you gone for?

Ronnie O'Sullivan27:03

We've gone for Deacon Blue Real Gone Kid. The reason why I chose this song was because me and my dad used to do a lot of travelling up and down the motorways when I was a kid. And I remember he got out on Bow and we were driving the very next day to a tournament and this song came on. And yeah, we both got kind of emotional. He was out on Bow so we never knew what was going to go but I just remember, yeah, listening to this song and it just reminds me then that time really.

Presenter27:32

We'll talk more about what happened to Ydad in the next section, but for now let's hear it.

Speaker 327:38

You're a real don't kid

Speaker 327:43

Nevina, baby, baby, never baby.

Speaker 327:50

Never not baby

Speaker 327:53

I'll do what I should've did

Speaker 328:04

Now I stood on the shadow

Presenter28:08

Deacon Blue and Real Gone Kid. So Ronnie O'Sullivan, in 1992, he was 16 years old, he turned professional.

Speaker 328:14

Yes.

Presenter28:17

And then later that year your father was jailed for murder. He served eighteen years in prison.

Ronnie O'Sullivan28:20

He said

Ronnie O'Sullivan28:22

Mm.

Presenter28:22

What do you remember about that time?

Ronnie O'Sullivan28:25

I remember

Ronnie O'Sullivan28:27

My dad getting out on bowel.

Ronnie O'Sullivan28:29

Coming to see me in Blackpool, because I just started out as a professional. I was literally in Blackpool for three months and I won 74 out of 76 matches and I literally played every day. And on the final day of qualifying for the World Championships, which was my last match, my 76th match, I travelled home the next day to my grandad's and was sat in the kitchen and that was the day of the verdict and that's when we got the news that it didn't go well. I could tell by my uncle's face when he came in like he'd seen a ghost. Oh, this ain't good.

Presenter29:01

So he got a phone call?

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:03

No, they were at court. I wasn't at court. I was just in the house, but my uncle was there, and I could just tell by his face that it was bad news, you know. And then it wasn't until and I spoke to his whoever was with my dad at the time, she said to me, like, it is like 20 years before he even thinks about coming out, you know, that's minimum. And I was just doing the math, 16, 20, 36, you know, like it feels like for a moment. Yeah, it's too far away to even get your head around it, you know. So that was hard, that was hard because there was no like hope in a way, you know. You thought, well, there's nothing really to work towards. It was just too far away to even contemplate. It's decades, isn't it? It's two decades, you know. So, yeah, just that was hard in a way.

Presenter29:27

It feels like right.

Speaker 129:29

Yeah.

Presenter29:30

Yeah.

Presenter29:35

But it's not

Presenter29:39

Contemplate

Presenter29:41

That's two.

Presenter29:43

Yeah.

Presenter29:45

Yeah. You said you felt like you lost your spine when your dad went to prison. He was obviously he'd been managing you, he was your coach, your driving force, my idol, you said. I mean, did you think about giving up?

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:46

You said you

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:49

Please.

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:51

Music

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:52

Your driving force might

Ronnie O'Sullivan29:56

There was a point where I said, Look, Dad, you know, I'd rather just run the shops. I enjoyed doing that more than playing Snooker, you know, it kind of like.

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:04

I thought I can do this and have a bit of a life, whereas snooker, I'm just going to be up at Snooker every day potting balls. And I was like seventeen, eighteen and I just got a little taste for sort of driving, being independent and thinking maybe there's a bit more life than just playing snooker.

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:19

And he was like, nope, you're not doing that. You don't want to be in that game. You can snoop is the best thing for you. This is that. Don't get it. I was like,

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:25

And I and I really fought against it, to be honest with you.

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:29

But he wouldn't let me.

Presenter30:30

Why wouldn't he let you?

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:31

I don't know. I still think it might have been the better thing for me in a way.

Presenter30:35

Do you think he saw Snooker as your way out of his life?

Ronnie O'Sullivan30:38

Dunno, maybe he thought I wasn't cut out for it, you know, like the West End was a different ballgame. And then when I think about it now, maybe I wouldn't have survived up there'cause it took a certain type of personality to be able to s survive up there, you know. Maybe I was a bit too naive to be a success up there. Maybe you thought I'm better off in the world of snooker. And I think in hindsight I made the right decision. But you just never know.

Presenter30:58

So you must have felt really adrift without your dad. How did you approach continuing and and

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:02

Mm.

Presenter31:05

How where did you like you say, you'd been in the car together, driving to matches, doing everything I mean, like you were on your own at that point, I guess.

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:13

Well, it became more about not letting him down, not letting him feel responsible for for you know, if I if I mess up, he's surely gonna feel like it was his fault. And I know that's how he felt. So it became like it wasn't an option then to foul. It's like I had to keep going, I had to keep trying to sort of

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:31

you know, to win in tournaments really,'cause at the end of the day that was that was the only thing that was gonna kinda like balance it out really in my dad's mind, you know.

Presenter31:38

And was there a sense that you playing was keeping him going while he was in prison?

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:42

Yeah?

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:43

Yeah, I mean he he he said that to me. He said like you know like I always knew a visit was important to my dad.

Ronnie O'Sullivan31:49

You know, and I'd visit him once a month, no matter where he was. And then he said to me, like, We've got television now, he says, I'm watching you play Snow Go. I was like, Oh, great He went, Every time I see you on T V it's it's like a visit I thought, Oh, I can't stop now That's a lot to

Presenter32:01

That's a lot to take on emotionally, isn't it?

Presenter32:04

It's a lot of pressure.

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:05

Do you think so?

Presenter32:06

I think so. Well, especially because hadn't you wasn't he not allowed to come and see you play? Because you could like feel him in the room when you were younger.

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:07

Well especially

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:12

Yeah, like that was at time at Barkey when I first won my Pro-Am when I was twelve, about a few months before that.

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:20

I'd started getting some better results because he wasn't there.

Presenter32:23

But then now you're in a situation where you know that he's watching you all the time, that's quite a lot.

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:25

You know that

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:27

The T V didn't bother me because I thought as long as I haven't gotta have him sort of like

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:32

Telling me off. It was like, why did you play that? Why did you do that for? I was scared to play the way I wanted to play because I thought I've got to play the way my dad wants me to play, which never worked out. I always got beat. He'd say, do this, do that, do that. I'd do it. And I'd get beat and I'd go, and he went, why'd you do that? I went, you told me to do that.

Ronnie O'Sullivan32:51

So I was like and then once I he realized him not being there and I could play with freedom, it was fine. So just not having him like feeling him, he could watch, love him watching. You know, now I kinda like, you know, I as long as he's not in the building, it's fine. On T V, not an issue.

Speaker 133:02

Yeah.

Presenter33:02

Mm.

Presenter33:08

You're a dad, you've got

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:09

You've got

Presenter33:10

Kids in their teens and coming up to that age, looking back.

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:10

It's

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:13

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:15

Mm.

Presenter33:16

It must have been incredibly hard for you to for your dad to to not be in your life at that time.

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:21

Oh, yeah, it was horrendous. It was horrible. It was horrible. It was like I lost my best mate. I lost my backbone. You know, someone that kind of like.

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:28

You know, I wouldn't have gone off the rails, put it that way, if he would have been out. I know that for sure.

Speaker 133:32

Yeah.

Speaker 333:32

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan33:33

I just couldn't have done it. I just wouldn't have come home. I wouldn't have wanted to have to face him putting me in my place. I just wouldn't have wanted it. So it would have been a complete no-no. And people around me wouldn't have even attempted to do that. They'd have said, like, got big Ron to answer to like, leave him out. Do you know what I mean? But once my dad went, it was like, you know what? There was no one there to protect me in a way. And I'm not saying that I was led astray. I was always the one l instigating it. So a lot of the time people around me go, oh, he's no good for Ronnie, he's no good for Ronnie. I'm thinking it weren't him.

Presenter34:05

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan34:07

Asking to get it was like me ringing him up to go out, you know, so I was like

Ronnie O'Sullivan34:12

I was bad.

Presenter34:13

I mean, I want to talk about what happened next and the kind of risky behaviour, but also it feels like, you know, there's an element of anger there, isn't there, sometimes when kids maybe that they can't express. I wonder if there was part of you that was just really angry about

Ronnie O'Sullivan34:26

Oh, I became angry, yeah, yeah, yeah. I became a pretty anti-establishment in a way for institution and for authority. And I never was really. I was always quite, you know, just happened to get on my snooker, do my thing, and that's all I wanted to do. But then it became a bit like planting seeds in my head, and then I would sort of like he was having his fight in there, so then I had to have my fight out here, and we both had something in common, like, yeah, you're doing it, I'm doing it, yeah. We're like, you know, like, forget them, we're at it, it's us against them. So I built up this sort of anger, if you like, and become a bit.

Ronnie O'Sullivan34:58

Just lost the plot about, I suppose, really.

Presenter35:01

Ronnie, I want to come back to all of that, but first I think we'd better take a minute for some more music. Your fifth choice, what have you gone for and why are you taking it to the island?

Ronnie O'Sullivan35:09

Carly Simon and it's You're So Vain and the reason why this song stands out for me was'cause I was 15 when my dad first got nicked for the murder and my mum thought it was a good idea to get me out to Thailand a little bit earlier hoping that I wouldn't hear about my dad and that by the time I came home dad would be home. It never happened that way so my mum phoned me up, told me while I was in Thailand what had gone on and I remember there were three songs on repeat mode in my hotel room and this was one of the songs which sort of sticks in my mind, you know, obviously. So yeah, that that's why I picked that song.

Speaker 335:51

Maybe your partner end

Speaker 335:54

You're so vain.

Speaker 335:58

Probably think this song is about you. You're so bad, you're so bad.

Speaker 336:05

You think this song is about you, don't you, don't you?

Speaker 336:11

At least several years ago When I was still quite naive When you said there was

Presenter36:22

Carly Simon, and you're so vain still tough to listen to that.

Ronnie O'Sullivan36:26

Yeah, a little bit, you know, obviously it takes you back to that time and stuff like that, but

Ronnie O'Sullivan36:31

Yeah, crazy, crazy, you know.

Presenter36:33

Ronnie, you were the youngest player to win the Masters Snooker title, just 19 years old when you did it. But just a year after that you had to somehow balance looking after your younger sister as well, because your mum had to spend a few months in prison for VAT fraud. She'd been looking after your dad's business while he was in prison, so you had both parents in prison. How did you manage everything?

Ronnie O'Sullivan36:55

Um that was the point where I kinda like it just went from zero to to a hundred overnight. You know, once my mum had gone away it was like I had no one to sort of be accountable to to, you know, because she was another one that I knew would be so disappointed in me if I come back drunk or I started smoking.

Presenter37:13

So she was quite straight then.

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:15

She was, yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:16

When my dad went away, she was the next person that I didn't want to let down, you know. So it was kinda like I wanted to be there for her and make sure that we both got through it, you know, together we were stronger. That was my mindset. Um so by her going away it kinda like left me on my own and then by the time she came out it was too late. The damage I was already off and running, there was no stopping me.

Presenter37:20

So

Presenter37:35

So you had to look after Danielle, your little sister.

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:39

Tried, I tried.

Presenter37:40

And obviously it was just too much.

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:42

Couldn't deal with it. I I I I was already then drinking and partying and

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:47

smoking dope, just hanging around with people that wasn't really

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:51

Good for me, really.

Presenter37:52

So who stepped in? Who what happened?

Ronnie O'Sullivan37:54

I moved to Liverpool by mistake. There was never like any intention to go and live in Liverpool. I just was on my way to Preston, got some fella, some tickets who lived in Liverpool to come and watch me in Preston, stayed at his house, got comfortable. I spent like nearly two years living in Liverpool. I felt like I had friends, I felt like I you know, I go down the snooze club, everyone was just it was just I fitted in more down there than I ever did in London. I still do in a way, I still feel happier up north of England than I do down at the south.

Presenter38:23

Did you feel safe, though?

Ronnie O'Sullivan38:24

Yeah, I felt safe. Yeah. It was a different type of safety, you know, even though I didn't have my family. I had a different I had a good network of friends. I actually met people my own age that were sensible and smart and that were like

Presenter38:28

And if

Ronnie O'Sullivan38:37

I felt safe hanging around with, you know, a lot of my friends down London were just sort of.

Ronnie O'Sullivan38:43

They weren't my cup of tea. I I wasn't good at choosing the right people. When I went to Liverpool, they were like, This is Ronnie, keep an eye on him And then I was introduced to really good quality young people that kinda like I felt safe around, you know, they would say, Look, not now, Ron, not it's not that you know, whereas in London it was like, Yeah, whatever Ron wants to do, we'll do it, you know, so usually I gravitate to older people, I don't know why, but it's like I'm looking for that father maybe

Presenter38:58

No wise.

Presenter39:05

Maybe growing up in snooker holes as well, maybe. Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:07

Maybe, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah. It was so, you know, for me to hang out with people my age was was was was a good thing for me, you know.

Presenter39:16

Yeah. As you mentioned, that there were things that started to kind of spiral, behaviors that that had started that that began to get worse. And so I think addictive behaviors that took a few different forms. What what kind of thing was happening?

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:21

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:23

Then

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:29

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:31

Well, food was one. So I stopped the drinking, stopped the wacky baky, you know, got into food, but didn't know it at the time.

Presenter39:32

Uh

Presenter39:38

But yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan39:39

It's just kind of like, it was just like another form of numbing whatever you were feeling. But when you haven't got an awareness, you just kind of do it, you know. And then I came home and my mum was like so disgusted in me that amount of weight that I'd put on. I lost my driving licence and I trained every day, three times a day. So I'd run in the morning, gym in the afternoon, gym in the night. And I lost about three and a half, four stone. And I was the fittest and most healthiest I'd ever been. And that was again three times a day. And another addictive baby. And another addictive. So it wasn't until I went to the priory and I started to realize about addiction because I just thought, oh, they were going to teach me to stop at one or two and this. And I was going to be, you know, I was going to gain control of it. And once they sort of said, like, if you're an addict, you kind of never really gain control. You know, when it comes to drinking, it's complete abstinence. And I was like, what? Like, never again? I just couldn't get my head around it.

Speaker 339:44

Yeah.

Speaker 139:44

Uh

Presenter40:14

Another addictive behavior.

Speaker 340:26

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan40:40

So I know now that addiction can run rife in me and it can be in anything, you know, so I have to be careful about what I kind of some things I indulge in and it's brilliant, you know, like

Speaker 140:43

And it can be

Ronnie O'Sullivan40:50

overexercise and the worst that's things that can happen to me is that I'm a bit knackered for a couple of days and just need to sleep it off a little bit and just eat good food. That's not a bad sort of trade-off, but

Presenter40:56

Benjamin.

Presenter41:00

So you've had to s learn to choose your poison a little bit.

Ronnie O'Sullivan41:03

Yeah, I don't know what it's like to not have an addiction and be able to go, I'll have a bit of this, a bit of that, a bit of this, a bit of that, and you know, have a great balance in life. But I don't feel like I have that ability to do that. I can recognize it and kind of go, well, I won't do this, I won't do that. And I'm much better at sort of taking on what's healthy for for me now. But I still realize that that drive is there and it just manifests in different ways. It's just how do I want it to manifest? That's why I know that whatever I get into, I've got to be careful because, you know, it is all or nothing, you know.

Speaker 141:22

Mm-hmm.

Presenter41:35

You've written about your life several times, including looking back and reflecting on it for your latest memoir, Unbreakable.

Ronnie O'Sullivan41:40

Latest

Presenter41:42

Some of your behaviour was s was really self-destructive, but also self-sabotaging. And I wonder whether it was a relief. To get help, a relief to be in rehab and say, I just can't manage this, I'm out of control.

Ronnie O'Sullivan41:55

Yeah, I mean, you don't even know when you're self-sabotaging. I mean, I got clean and I was still sabotaging on the snooker table, but I just didn't know that I was doing it. And it wasn't until someone made me aware of what I was doing that I kinda like I understood it. And it makes sense.

Presenter42:03

It wasn't

Presenter42:08

So this is walking out in matches when the pressure gets too much or?

Ronnie O'Sullivan42:10

Yeah, the pressure gets too much or yeah, and so many ways where I'd quit and you know, I'd go back to my room after losing a match that I thought I was better off losing because I wasn't feeling it. And then I'd get back to my room and an hour later I was like, I actually feel like I wish I'd have won that match. I wish I could have had a chance at the next guy tomorrow, you know, but I've I've ruined it.

Speaker 342:11

Uh

Presenter42:12

Yeah, yeah, and

Presenter42:21

Then I can

Presenter42:30

Ronnie, it's time to go to the music, your sixth disc today.

Ronnie O'Sullivan42:33

My next song is Stereophonics Maybe Tomorrow and it was yeah, it was one of the it was a band I was introduced to just before I went into the Priory so I was getting myself clean and listening to stereophonics thinking yeah this guy's really good and then I think it must have been about nine ten minutes later after coming out of Priory I found myself at a party and I was a bit off the wagon and um Kelly was there and I was like

Presenter42:57

Kelly Jones from the Stereophonics was while you were.

Ronnie O'Sullivan42:59

Yeah, I'm like nine months ago I was clean listening to you, now I'm like, I'm off the wagon for the first time and it's like, how did that happen?

Presenter43:09

Two steps forward, one step back. Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan43:11

Yeah.

Speaker 343:12

Been down and I'm wondering why these little black clouds keep walking around me.

Speaker 343:20

Will make

Speaker 343:24

It was time and I'd rather be high Think of what we outside about remote smile But be free

Speaker 343:31

Now I'll free

Speaker 343:36

Mr. Mabby tomorrow.

Speaker 343:40

I find my way

Presenter43:42

Stereophonics and maybe tomorrow. Ronnie O'Sullivan, you've got a number of interests these days that help support your mental health and your mindset. And I think some listeners might be surprised to know that one of them is painting. You're quite a keen painter, and one of your closest friends is the artist Damien Hurst. How important is that friendship to your well-being? And what sort of painter are you?

Ronnie O'Sullivan43:56

Painter

Ronnie O'Sullivan43:59

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan44:04

I'm not a drawer, I can't draw to save my life. But what Damien gets me doing is with he does a lot of dots, so it's sort of like he has a little bit of this quantist thing. Yeah, he's these massive canvases and he was like, You can do this. And I was like, I ain't got a room big enough to put a canvas like that, and you've got like pots of paint here, which like and he went, No, he said, You just get a little piece of paper and you just get smaller pens and you just do it on a different scale. And I was like, Really? No what? This is good for me. This is good. This is getting me in a nice place. I'm like I'm with my friend. I'm I'm here with him. I don't want to be anywhere else. I feel safe. We stop for lunch. We have a lovely bit of grub.

Presenter44:41

So you love what he does and that's, you know, brought something wonderful to your life. But you met because he loves Snooker so much, I think.

Ronnie O'Sullivan44:42

You know

Ronnie O'Sullivan44:44

But

Ronnie O'Sullivan44:47

Yeah, no, he loves it, he loves the game.

Presenter44:49

Do you ever think the balls might be a bit of an inspiration for the dots?

Ronnie O'Sullivan44:52

Could be, could be, yeah.

Presenter44:54

Who knows where these ideas come from? Exactly, exactly. You're the world number one, Ronnie, and the player who everyone wants to beat.

Ronnie O'Sullivan45:00

Mm.

Presenter45:01

How do you deal with the ongoing pressure to stay at the top of your game?

Ronnie O'Sullivan45:05

So for me, it's always being open to learn and kind of becoming a better player. I think I'm a better player now than I kind of ever have been because I don't rely on just one thing. I've kind of got three or four different options of surviving within a game and at any point I can switch, which just took time because I was never really the best at anything. You know, I wasn't the best long pot, I wasn't the best safety player. I was always good amongst making breaks and scoring quickly, which is an amazing asset to have. But without the other stuff, it became a bit like one-dimensional. So over the years, I've had to learn to improve in a lot of them areas. And now I can call upon them, but I always know that in the back of my mind that to get the job done, I need to be firing on all cylinders, which is scoring breaks at a quick, rapid speed. And then when I'm doing that, I'm a dangerous sort of opponent. Yeah, just learning basically, just learning to be, you know, just a better player. That's what sort of excites me, really, because I think I spent a lot of time struggling and trying to work it out. And now I've kind of got to the point where I've improved, but it's sort of like, how long can I keep it going for now? I've worked so hard to get there, and it's like now I just want to make as much hay as I can and enjoyment because I suffered a lot with it, you know, and I've learnt to not suffer. So it's about more pleasure now, you know.

Speaker 145:13

Yeah.

Speaker 146:02

I think that's

Speaker 146:12

I wanna I've worked so hard to get there.

Presenter46:25

Ronnie, it's time for your seventh track. What's next?

Ronnie O'Sullivan46:28

I went for Train Drops of Jupiter and I've always liked this song and it was always um I'd pick my kids up from school on a Wednesday and they never liked any of my music and I was like you know can you put this on dad put it on and so I'll put it on and then one day I said they listened to this song and they listened to it and they went nah and and then they went they both really liked it so I was like cool I've got a song here and they just used to put it on repeat

Ronnie O'Sullivan46:52

And they would play it and play it and play it and then once we were doing a cooking show and they said, Oh, we've got Train here, Drops of Jubiter, playing and I was like, Really? My favourite song. And I got to meet Pat and that and who's a lovely guy. And there he's my my walk-on song as well. So it's sort of like the kids meeting him, lovely guy, love the song, walk-on song. So yeah, good good good song for me.

Speaker 347:15

Yeah.

Speaker 347:19

Since the return of her stay on the moon She listens like spring and she talks like June

Speaker 347:28

Uh yeah.

Speaker 347:31

But tell me, did you sail across the sun? Did you make it to the Milky Way? To see the lights all faded, and that heaven is overrated. Tell me, did you fall for a shooting star?

Presenter47:49

Train and drops of Jupiter for your kids, Ronnie Junior and Lily, Ronnie O'Sullivan. So how far ahead do you plan with your playing, Ronnie? I mean, do you know whether you'll go for an eighth world title at this point?

Ronnie O'Sullivan48:01

I think I've got maybe, if I want it, three really good years, but that depends on whether I'm fully devoted to it and kinda like, Right, Snooker's all I'm gonna do for the next three years, which I can do, but it's really hard to do it when you sort of like think I wanna do a few days with Jimmy White as a pundit. I wanna go and do a few exhibitions, I wanna go and do a few shows,'cause they're fun. But I can still perform, I can still be a top eight player doing that, but to to really fully

Ronnie O'Sullivan48:26

become like give yourself the best opportunity. It's about like just being like totally on it, you know, and

Ronnie O'Sullivan48:34

It's whether I'm prepared to do it. And I think I will this year. I think I've got a lot of people.

Presenter48:37

I've got a bit of a twinkle in your eye. I was just going to say there's an expression.

Ronnie O'Sullivan48:38

I was just going to say there's an expression. I think last year's World Championships wasn't a good good tournament for me. I was really gutted at how I played. I wasn't disappointed I lost, you know, you lose, you know. But the way I played, I wasn't happy with that. And I think I want to try and put that right and come back a different player next year, you know.

Presenter48:40

Much is World Championship.

Presenter48:43

Mm.

Presenter48:57

Well, Ronnie, it's time now to cast you away to the desert island. How do you feel about the challenge? Do you think you'll be able to keep yourself happy in your solitude?

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:05

On a desert island?

Presenter49:06

Okay.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:06

I think I would. I think I would sort of enjoy the outdoors. I enjoy the I never done cubs or what what do they call it when they're young scouts, isn't it?

Presenter49:15

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:16

But I learnt that they said we teach them how to set a fire and this and that. And I would love to sort of experience being thrown.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:23

On and somewhere and gone right, gotta survive.

Presenter49:26

This is it.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:26

You know, like bare grills, you know.

Presenter49:27

You're on the right show.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:29

So that is something I'll quite look forward to, yeah.

Presenter49:31

So you'd embrace the challenge. Do you think you'd be good at the practical side, the lighting a fire and building a shelter?

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:36

I'd learn, I'd learn, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.'Cause I had a canal boat and my mate used to have his fire on. I'd go and he's but I've got cool, that's a good fire. You've got it down there, Paul. And then I he'd go, Well, you do this, you do that. And I'd go, So I'd go back to my boat and I'd do it and I'd go, Paul, fire's not going like yours. What am I doing wrong?

Presenter49:51

Well it's not going to be there. You're on your own with this.

Ronnie O'Sullivan49:52

Comround Paul and he'd go, Right, you gotta do this, you gotta do that and I'll do that and that it was roaring. But I could never quite get it right, but it's'cause I was I was there for a few days and then I was gone for a couple of months. But once you kind of get into it, you can learn to do anything really.

Presenter50:05

This is it. You're going to be in the in the deep end, I'm afraid.

Ronnie O'Sullivan50:08

Yeah.

Presenter50:08

One more disc before we send you there, though. Your final choice today. What's it going to be?

Ronnie O'Sullivan50:12

Genesis, that's all. I used to hear this a lot with my dad in the car. He was into Phil Collins and all that sort of stuff. And I used to, again, go into the running, going to Haint Forest, which is about a 12-15 minute drive from my house. I would listen to step-by-step with Whitney Houston, and then the next song was Genesis, That's All. And that was just sort of like the right, good feeling song. And I used to, by the time I finished listening to that song, I'd be ready to get out of my car, meet my mate, and I'm like, yeah, I've had a good morning. You know, the drive was good.

Speaker 350:45

Looking at me, it's always the same, it's just a shame, that's all.

Speaker 350:51

Turning me on, turning me off. Making me feel like I want too much

Speaker 350:57

Living with you is just affording me through it all of the time.

Speaker 351:02

Running around, staying out all night Taking it all, stay to take a one bite

Presenter51:13

Genesis, and that's all. So, Ronnie O'Sullivan, I'm going to send you away to the desert island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take one other book. Which will it be?

Ronnie O'Sullivan51:25

Running with the Kenyans.

Ronnie O'Sullivan51:26

Was my favourite book that I ever read. It was the first, one of the first books that I had to stop reading because I didn't want it to end. And I just kept flying through the pages, flying through the pages, and I just thought the book got better and better. And the writer was an amazing writer, anyway, so it's quite like every book he read. I like his writing. So I'd definitely take Running with the Kenyans with me because I think that'd just take me to a place where hopefully one day I'll get to experience what Running with the Kenyans is like.

Presenter51:56

So Running with the Kenyans by Darren and Finn. You can have that. I'll also give you a luxury item to make life more enjoyable on the island, or for sensory stimulation. Yeah, mapama dots.

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:08

Yeah, that would be something that would get me through times of what am I going to do? Oh, I know what to do.

Presenter52:13

I know what to do. So you're gonna you want your paints?

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:15

Yeah, take my paint, yeah.

Presenter52:17

Okay, talk me through it. What do we need? Like, you know, are we talking watercolours, acrylics?

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:17

So

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:19

Tommy's book

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:21

No, nothing too watery,'cause otherwise it you don't get the texture. It's got to be a thick blanket on there, texture, solid. Takes a while to dry, but once you've covered a few little parts of it, you plod it up and you get onto the next canvas, and eventually they all sort of like you can keep working on them all at the same time. So for me, it'd have to be thick, heavy paint.

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:41

on a nice cut canvas uh background.

Presenter52:43

Oh yeah, we can do that for you. The island's going to be you know your first exhibition space. And finally, which track of the eight that you've played us today would you rush to save from the waves if you had to?

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:47

In space.

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:54

Yeah.

Presenter52:54

Yeah.

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:55

Genesis, that's all.

Ronnie O'Sullivan52:56

Genesis has kind of like just come back into my life just recently, probably only about six, seven months ago, and it's sort of one of them that I forgot how good it was, and then you listen to it and you're like, Wow, why wasn't I listening to that way, way long ago, you know? So it's sort of

Ronnie O'Sullivan53:09

It's my go-to on my playlist.

Presenter53:12

Ronnie O'Sullivan, thank you very much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Ronnie O'Sullivan53:16

Thank you. Cheers.

Presenter53:30

Hello, I hope that Ronnie's happy on his island painting, maybe doing a bit of running there too. We've cast many sports people away over the years to our island. They include snooker players Ray Reardon and Steve Davis. You can hear their programmes if you search through our Desert Island Discs programme archive or on BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Next time my guest will be the journalist Jeremy Bowen. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 154:37

Hi, I'm Rylan, and I'm here to talk about men. Because in recent years, we have all seen the man in Britain undergo radical change as the rule book has been well and truly ripped apart. So, I'm going to talk to a range of prominent figures and celebs who have each got their own diverse and contrasting takes on what it means to be a man today. I want to prize open the fault lines of modern masculinity and get to grips with the changing landscape and try to get some answers so that we can pass them on to the next generation. This is Rylan, How to Be a Man from BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 155:11

Listen on BPC Sounds.