Liz Carr

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is the actor and activist Liz Carr. Her breakthrough role was in the BBC forensics drama Silent Witness, which made her a regular presence in millions of living rooms for almost a decade. That was followed by big-budget fantasy epic The Witcher and her own musical. Last year, she won an Olivier Award for her part in the national theatre production of The Normal Heart. She played a character based on Dr. Linda Larbenstein, a pioneer in the treatment of AIDS and a wheelchair user. Liz was the first wheelchair user to play this role in almost four decades since the play's premiere.

Presenter1:19

Acting wasn't her first choice of career. She studied law and was campaigning for the rights of other disabled people when, after taking a theatre course, she discovered a new passion. She joined the famous Grey Eye Theatre Company, the comedy troupe's nasty girls and abnormally funny people, and presented the award-winning BBC podcast Ouch before landing the role of Clarissa Mullery in Silent Witness. She says, Everything I do is urgent. I'm not grateful for the anxiety that comes with worrying about my health. I'd rather not have that. But the flip side is that I have lived a life so far that has been amazing. Liz Carr, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Liz Carr1:57

Hello, what?

Presenter1:57

What a summary. No wonder if you're a little bit tired.

Liz Carr2:00

Uh

Presenter2:00

Into the

Presenter2:02

You've got so many strings to your voice, stand up comedy, T V, film, theatre, to which discipline is closest to your heart? And do you kind of get the urge to scratch the opposite creative itch if you've been in one lane for too long?

Liz Carr2:13

I think partly I have done so many things because I think I'm in an industry where they don't really know what to do with disabled people. We're new. Relatively we are. We've not. We've been around for quite a long time. But in terms of a confidence. And what that means is that I've won an Olivier, but I haven't done anything else theatre-wise. I haven't been for auditions. Where would you like to go if you could take your pick? The rehearsal.

Liz Carr2:39

For theatre is a proper in-depth working with other people, creating a character. You know, when I did Silent Witness, you basically wheel onto set and away you go. There's no time to think about who you are. I mean, you make that time, but in theatre, you know, you work through the character, you think about who they are, who they are to you, who you want to present them as. And then I'm also a massive show-off and exhibitionist. So going out in front of an audience and getting that feedback, I mean, it's devastating when it's not the feedback that you want, but you can play the same role, tell the same jokes, whatever it is, and get such a different reaction each night. But the buzz, the high when you realize that you're communicating with people.

Liz Carr3:28

And they're hearing you, and they're either finding you funny, or they're touched, or they're enlightened, or they're entertained. When you make that connection.

Liz Carr3:37

I think that it's there's nothing like it.

Presenter3:39

And what's the dream park?

Liz Carr3:41

Uh

Liz Carr3:43

The dream part doesn't yet exist because there's such a lack of imagination around disability as well. That usually the things that we are cast in are autobiographical because they have happened, so we don't have to imagine them. I would like to open a script and go, Oh my god, this is amazing. This is better than I could think of. This is not something I've seen before. And of course, I do want to be a bond villain. I say that. Any of

Presenter4:12

Opportunity. Liz, you've got eight tracks you can take with you to the island. What's your first choice? My first?

Liz Carr4:20

is somewhere over the rainbow.

Presenter4:21

Yeah.

Liz Carr4:22

Judy Garland.

Presenter4:23

Gosh, there's so many reasons.

Liz Carr4:23

So many reasons, but it reminds me of a lot of family parties.

Liz Carr4:29

Piano in the house.

Liz Carr4:31

Always playing. My dad played the piano. Would he play this? He would play this, absolutely. But I used to sing it. You had to have a party piece. Plus.

Liz Carr4:41

I just think the film is fantastic. And I played The Cowardly Lion years ago. At school? Yeah, at school, in infant school. I think I was about six. And there's a picture that was in the Wirral Globe, which is where I'm from.

Liz Carr4:57

And I'm sitting on the stage next to the other big players, you know, the the Tin Man and the Scarecrow and Dorothy, of course. And I've got my little black pumps on. And I've got this it must be home made, like this really ropey

Liz Carr5:11

kind of lion suit with with the hood up.

Presenter5:13

And do you remember the kind of love and appreciation of the crowd? Were you hooked back then?

Liz Carr5:18

I was hooked, but I was also filled with envy because my best friend at the time, Helen, she got to play Dorothy.

Liz Carr5:26

Uh

Speaker 45:29

Over the rainbow way upon

Speaker 45:38

There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby

Speaker 45:48

Somewhere over the rainbow skies on

Presenter5:57

Judy Garland and Over the Rainbow. So Liz Carr, I want to hear about your family and I think we'll start with your piano playing father, Peter. He was ra rather wonderful by the sounds of it. He's also a scientist by profession.

Liz Carr6:08

It's also a

Liz Carr6:10

Yes. He was a research chemist at Unilever, PhD. Made it from first generation, as was my mum, to go to like higher education to go to university. Okay. And dad had to go to work, you know. When he finished school, but he did so well that they then sent him to like the local college and then they paid for him to do a PhD at Bristol. You know, he was super, super smart.

Presenter6:35

So tell me more about your mum Pat. So she was a teacher before she retired.

Liz Carr6:38

That's right. She was a supply teacher until she had me and my brother Jonathan. And that meant that she kept teaching when we were little and we would go to school. So I went to school from like I think from about three.

Liz Carr6:52

Both of my parents are really funny and they worked very well together. I feel like it's a slight cliché because I'm from the Northwest to sort of go, yes, I lived with a lot of humour, but I did. It's time for some more music, Liz, your second choice today. What have you gone for? I have gone for a song about my parents, really, very connected with them. And it's the song Beautiful Dreamer.

Liz Carr7:13

But the version of it is Cheryl Crowe and it's their song because I mentioned about big family do's. So when my mum met my dad

Liz Carr7:22

She would go round and they'd have these big do's and they'd say, Pat, Pat, well, what do you sing? And she was like, No, really, I can't sing. And then it got to one point where she couldn't put it off any more. So my dad said, Look, let's go into the front room where the piano is, of course, and uh you just sing for me.

Liz Carr7:42

So we started to play Beautiful Dreamer and she's like, Beautiful Dreamer!

Liz Carr7:48

And when you hear the beautiful Cheryl Crow singing it, you'll realize how bad that was. And my dad apparently.

Liz Carr7:57

Just

Liz Carr7:58

closed the piano lid.

Liz Carr8:00

And stood up.

Liz Carr8:03

and said, This will never be discussed again.

Speaker 48:08

Beautiful dreamer

Speaker 48:12

Wake unto me

Speaker 48:15

Starlight and dewdrops are waiting for thee

Speaker 48:22

SOUNDS OF THE RUDE WORLD

Speaker 48:26

Heard in the day

Speaker 48:29

Lulled by the moonlight, have all passed away.

Presenter8:35

Yeah.

Speaker 48:37

Beautiful dream

Presenter8:39

Cheryl Crowe's version of Beautiful Dreamer.

Presenter8:43

What were you thinking about, Lister?

Liz Carr8:45

Tune that track.

Presenter8:45

Yeah.

Liz Carr8:46

When um my dad was dying four years ago now.

Liz Carr8:50

And he was unconscious and it was we didn't know if it was hours or days or anyway, one day, mum

Liz Carr8:57

She was like, oh so Peter, you know, I was just wondering, would you like me to sing Beautiful Dreamer? And from nowhere he just goes, no, I don't.

Liz Carr9:07

Like nothing.

Presenter9:07

Thank you.

Presenter9:08

So Liz, when you were at primary school, your family embarked on a great adventure. Your dad had got a position in the States for two years with his work. Was it an opportunity that you were all looking for?

Liz Carr9:20

Absolutely. My mum had loved the Hollywood movies, you know, growing up in the 40s, 50s, 60s. I remember being devastated on my last day at school, of course, because I loved school. I was really popular. I was not disabled, in case that's not clear. I was a regular kid, regularly attractive, smart. I had a lot of things going for me. I remember crying my eyes out and not wanting to go. But then we had this new adventure. Children that, you know.

Presenter9:48

John Franklin.

Liz Carr9:50

They bounce back, resilient.

Presenter9:52

Then did you make friends?

Liz Carr9:52

Uh So how did you fit in at school with your English accent? They loved the English accent and all was good and then I got tired and I got a rash and I got really ill. A really bad bout of measles, a virus and six months later I became really very ill. So the reason that, you know, if people are aware of my appearance, I haven't grown since I was sort of seven because I was on steroids, really high dosage. I think we're six in a million.

Liz Carr10:22

with my condition. So comes out of nowhere, not able to go to school because I'm uh on such high doses of steroids. So I can catch I'm really sort of immuno compromised. And I used to walk until I was

Liz Carr10:37

But eleven?

Presenter10:38

So it's a gradual process.

Liz Carr10:40

It's a gradual process. My lower spine just collapsed'cause steroids sort of are no good for your bones, they weaken your bones. All of those things meant that, yeah, from eleven I become a wheelchair user. Well, that was really difficult because

Liz Carr10:54

You know, we all have such negativity around disability, I think. You'll notice that I've not labeled the medical condition that I've got.

Presenter11:04

Mm-hmm.

Liz Carr11:05

That's really good.

Presenter11:05

That's a big choice for you.

Liz Carr11:07

Big conscious choice because it becomes something that obsesses the media. That's all they want to know. Or public. You know, if you put my name into Google, I'm not saying I've ever done that, but I have, the top questions will be, what's wrong with Liz Carr? What condition has Liz Carr got? And it distracts. It's not that interesting. Ask me the right questions and I'm a fairly interesting person.

Presenter11:34

Going back to when you were a little girl, I know that you've said that you were told then, when you were very small, that you weren't going to live very long. I mean, I can't imagine what it's like to hear that as a child.

Liz Carr11:46

So I was in my early teens and I used to be a patient of a very fearful doctor. You would go to her consultations and the big booming woman. I was like, I I didn't know. I was scared. I was very ill. What's going to happen? We don't know. But you won't live to be old.

Liz Carr12:05

How it affected me is every night before I went to bed, when my mum was tucking me up, I'd go, will I die tonight?

Liz Carr12:12

And she'd say no.

Liz Carr12:14

And I'd go, yeah, but you don't know that. I need realism. And when you're told that by a doctor.

Liz Carr12:20

And of course we believe doctors. And now to this day, I don't think there's a day goes by when I don't think about that. I have

Liz Carr12:28

huge anxiety a lot of the time.

Liz Carr12:30

But I have lived so far with that.

Liz Carr12:35

I've got to do it now because who knows. It's time for disc number three, Liz. I am taking James's sit-down.

Liz Carr12:44

If anything, I want to just take James with me, the band, because they have been the band that's followed me as an adult. So when I go to uni, I really discover myself. It's 1990, it's indie, I loved it. James, I didn't know which song. Used to go to the Irish club on a Wednesday in Nottingham, went to Nottingham Uni, and I learnt how to...

Liz Carr13:10

Be free, I think, and sit down, felt like a protest song. Mine was getting more political, but it was just a great dance track and you just want to sing it.

Speaker 413:26

Uh

Speaker 413:27

I believe this wake will be my wakeful

Presenter13:51

James and sit down. So Liz Carr, you got your first power chair when you were eighteen, I think. You were in the school sixth form. What difference did that make to you and how did you feel about it at the time?

Liz Carr14:03

When you think about what not having a power chair means, it shocks me and it was my life. So it means I can't get from A to B. You're sitting at one desk, but you want to go and talk to the girls at the back of the class. I mean, or you want to go to the toilet, or you just want to move. And that was because at that point, couldn't get a decent outdoor chair on the NHS, and the chair that they had couldn't get up the slight incline that there was at my school. That I'd break down on the incline, and there's not a sort of RAC for wheelchairs. They come out in weeks' time. In the end, I have a manual chair that I can't self-propel. I had a gang of friends by then, and I say gang, that suggests we're really cool. We were like the oddbods from school, really wonderful, wonderful friends.

Liz Carr14:55

They were horrified that I didn't have a wheelchair.

Liz Carr15:00

And we're all going off to university.

Liz Carr15:03

So unbeknownst to me, they were raising money for me, the entire school.

Liz Carr15:09

So I turn up one day.

Liz Carr15:11

And there's an assembly in the sixth-form common room and my mum and dad turn up and you're like.

Liz Carr15:19

Oh god. And then a big card that's pretty much as big as me. And they wheel in a chair. And...

Liz Carr15:27

I was

Liz Carr15:29

thrilled and

Liz Carr15:31

Mortified in equal measure.

Speaker 415:34

Mm-hmm.

Liz Carr15:34

And it was very confusing for me. My friends, the whole school was doing this because of the injustice.

Liz Carr15:41

But I now felt really different. I was the object of charity.

Liz Carr15:46

But that's confu I'm confused.

Presenter15:48

Yeah.

Liz Carr15:48

And I feel different and I don't really want to feel that. And the local paper, again, the World Globe, wanted to do the story. And all they wanted was to talk about me and what was wrong with me.

Liz Carr15:59

And all I wanted to do was to talk about what my friends had done and the whole school, which was amazing. Were you able to do that? Did they let you?

Liz Carr16:06

No, so I didn't do it.

Liz Carr16:08

Disc number four, please, Liz.

Liz Carr16:10

We're going to hear a song called Rolling Thunder by Ian Stanton.

Liz Carr16:13

When I was nineteen.

Liz Carr16:17

I got very, very involved in what's known as the disabled people's movement. And part of that was going to these cabarets, disability cabarets. If we leap ahead

Liz Carr16:30

To 1996, I live in Nottingham. I'm very involved in something called DAN, Disabled People's Direct Action Network. I believe in protest, I believe in taking direct action.

Liz Carr16:40

If that's necessary.

Liz Carr16:42

And we have a three day action in Nottingham, partly against the MP Ken Clark, because we were in his constituency and it was inaccessible, so he said it there were steps into it. So he said, Oh, don't worry, I'll come out and meet you in my car park.

Liz Carr16:57

And we were like, no, you find another venue, it's not acceptable. But we took that appointment and we all turned up and there's there's a brilliant picture and I've got a tannoy and there's like, I mean, fifty, sixty of us at the bottom of the steps and we're just chanting, Build a ramp, build a ramp and there's a wheelbarrow with cement in it and there's

Liz Carr17:19

And after

Liz Carr17:21

The second night of protest we have a cabaret.

Liz Carr17:25

And this song was sung by Ian and Caro Parker is a deaf woman who does sign song and I can't hear it without being present that night and

Liz Carr17:38

At the end of the song, Imagine just on and on and on, the words proud, angry and strong.

Liz Carr17:44

And it went on for

Liz Carr17:47

Minutes and minutes and minutes, and it felt like forever. I've never felt anything like it before. It was

Liz Carr17:55

A real homecoming and a real sense of community and power and pride.

Speaker 418:04

We are advancing.

Speaker 418:09

Bears and all blew away.

Speaker 418:13

Like Ram

Speaker 418:16

Oh no.

Speaker 418:21

Come on.

Speaker 418:24

Holy hell.

Speaker 418:29

How much longer?

Presenter18:34

Iain Stanton and Rollin' Thunder. Liz, you went to Nottingham University and studied law. You've said that it was the making of you. Did you enjoy being a student?

Presenter18:44

Yeah.

Liz Carr18:44

I

Liz Carr18:45

Just knew that I had to get away from home.

Liz Carr18:48

Now you've heard I love my parents, but I knew that if I didn't, that was it for me. I'd live at home, what would happen when my parents got older, that was it. I was terrified really. So I knew I had to make it work. Because my parents were like, if it's not working, come home. You've got our support, whatever you want to do.

Liz Carr19:08

But I just couldn't. I that that first year was really unpleasant. Didn't know how to make friends. It took me a long time at school. And so uni, everybody wants to go off and be off doing stuff. So I've done a year. I've survived.

Liz Carr19:23

I've been drunk and I've made some friends and

Liz Carr19:27

It's 1991, it's December, and my mum used to subscribe to something called arthritis care.

Liz Carr19:34

I don't have arthritis. No, stop guessing. But it was similar in some ways. So mum read about this thing. It's called a personal development course. And I go and they provide assistance. So I don't need to worry. And there I am. It's the first evening. And it's all disabled people. And we are asked, do you think you're a disabled person or a person with a disability?

Liz Carr19:57

I'm a person first and absolutely that. Yes, absolutely. That's me. And then we go for dinner and there's this woman that I've seen, wheelchair user, blonde, and she's with like a friend and it comes to dinner and they according to Sue, they've sussed me out and they are desperate to grip me and pull me.

Liz Carr20:19

Into political disability and help me find myself. This was somebody that I really got, and they got me. And so, by the end of the weekend, it was like, We asked you at the beginning, you disabled person, a person with a disability, and I was like, I'm a disabled person because I'm disabled by the barriers in society. I know that it's not me that's the problem, I'm not the one that needs to change, but we need to change the structure of society. So, this is the social theory of disability. That's exactly it.

Presenter20:48

So that's exactly what I'm doing.

Liz Carr20:50

I learned about, yeah, the social model of disability, a different way of framing the problem and looking at the solution. And the solution then becomes about one that we can all contribute to. And it really made sense to me. I remember travelling

Liz Carr21:04

To San Francisco and I got on a bus. At that point, the buses weren't accessible in Nottingham, where I lived.

Liz Carr21:13

But I could get on the bus there and it tells me that disability, like discrimination, is not inevitable. Because I can't get on the bus in the UK, but I can in San Francisco. I've not changed. I don't need to change. The buses, the public policy, what we do with our resources, that's what has to change.

Presenter21:32

Damn.

Liz Carr21:32

I think

Presenter21:32

Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Carr21:33

Better hear your next piece of music. Tell us about it, Liz. Next song is Good Old Dolly Parton. Which one to go with? Uh I have gone with nine to five.

Liz Carr21:44

Lots of reasons, but a big reason is.

Liz Carr21:49

It's the year that I meet my wife, Jo.

Liz Carr21:52

And a bunch of us, we are gonna see what happens when wheelchair using women want to learn how to strip and do burlesque.

Liz Carr22:01

And my act began with me dressed in kind of office wear.

Liz Carr22:06

to playing to nine to five. And then there's like a crisis. I spin my chair around and it becomes the Superman music and I strip off and under my shirt and blurs and everything and skirt I've got a Supergirl.

Liz Carr22:22

costume and that was kind of a homage to Christopher Reeve. He'd become a wheelchair user. Nine to five makes me think of that summer and whipping the clothes off.

Speaker 422:34

They just use your mind and they never give you credit. It's enough that drive you crazy and you're ready.

Speaker 422:45

For service and devotion.

Speaker 422:50

Would deserve a bad promotion, want to move ahead But the boss won't seem to let me in I swear I see

Speaker 122:52

Want to move ahead?

Speaker 422:59

And it's out to get me!

Presenter23:02

Dolly Farton and Nine to Five. So, just picturing your act there as Supergirl, it does sound like you are developing this flair for the dramatic that would lead inevitably to the stage, to a life on screen, to everything that you did subsequently. And also, some of the kind of direct actions and protests that you were masterminding taking part in at the time were dramatic, they were funny. You know, it was all about kind of capturing people's attention and telling a story as succinctly and engagingly as you can.

Liz Carr23:32

I think it's about absolutely getting attention, flamboyance, exhibitionism, getting in the press, having an audience. I had not really thought about it like that, but those skills kind of massively cross over. My first direct action would be like 92, and there was a lot of coming down to London, didn't live down here at that point, chaining ourselves to buses. It was the old handcuffing ourselves to London buses, Westminster Bridge or wherever. You know, you're basically saying, this is public transport. We're members of the public. We can't get on there. You know, my life is about, I'm either invisible. If you don't know me from the telly, I'm invisible as a disabled woman. If you do know me from the telly, then people want selfies and a thrill to meet me. I live a dual life. It's fascinating.

Presenter24:21

Liz, after a time working as a disability rights advisor, you decided to take the plunge and did an acting course with Gray Eye Theatre Company. That led to a few years of working as a stand-up and in the theatre, and then you got your breakthrough role. You were playing Clarissa Mullery in the T V show Silent Witness. I loved Clarissa. Uh

Liz Carr24:39

Trap Uh Yeah.

Presenter24:39

Uh From the

Liz Carr24:39

The minute I read the script, I got her.

Presenter24:42

Once you got the part, you really wanted to have a say in Clarissa's storylines. What was it that you wanted for her?

Liz Carr24:49

I want Clarissa to have

Presenter24:50

Uh

Liz Carr24:51

A stable relationship because what we see on TV usually is disabled people.

Liz Carr24:57

Going through that. Will anybody love me because I'm disabled? Well, valid, don't get me wrong, but that's usually the same story we see. So I wanted to show what I needed to see when I was growing up, what I got when I met Sue, was that she had a stable relationship and was married. And I needed that. So I needed to represent that myself. All the other main characters, Thomas, Nikki and Jack, they all have all kinds of weird relationships. I'm going to be the one that has the stable relationship.

Liz Carr25:25

Ladies, it's time for your next disc. What are we going to hear? We are going to hear the amazing track called Something Good. It's from The Sound of Music.

Liz Carr25:36

Soundtrack

Liz Carr25:37

And it's a song that It's Me and Joe, my wife.

Speaker 425:42

For here you are, standing there, loving me.

Speaker 425:50

Either or not

Speaker 425:55

Oh, yeah.

Speaker 425:56

So somewhere in my youth or childhood I must have done something.

Presenter26:12

Something good from the soundtrack to the film The Sound of Music sung by Julie Andrews composed by Richard Rogers and Liz Carr for your wife Jo.

Presenter26:22

Liz, alongside your happy personal life and your very successful career as an actor, you've also been a campaigner and one of your campaigns is against attempts to introduce an assisted dyeing bill in Parliament. Now you've travelled to countries where assisted dyeing is legal. You've made two documentaries on the subject for the BBC World Service. It is a hugely controversial debate and definitely not an easy thing to campaign on. What made you want to put your head above the parapet in the way that you have?

Liz Carr26:51

I felt

Liz Carr26:52

I had no choice. There's a whole group of us called Not Dead Yet who are disabled people who I think believe there's such a fine line between illness and disability that often

Liz Carr27:06

We feel very much as stakeholders.

Liz Carr27:09

in the discussion around it because it is controversial hugely and people on both sides feel very passionate.

Liz Carr27:17

And often I might be accused, well, why don't you want my loved one to have this opportunity? And I'm kind of, I actually want everyone to have a good end of life. I have concerns that once we introduce assisted suicide, that things will change, that it changes our NHS, it changes our relationship with the medical profession.

Liz Carr27:39

And bear in mind maybe other things you've heard me say today. I think if you're a disabled person, you've probably had a lot of experience with the medical profession. So their wonderfulness and their flaws I've experienced.

Liz Carr27:54

Also the power that they have.

Liz Carr27:56

Also, a lot of people when they become ill or disabled, and I completely understand this, feel like their burdens feel hopeless.

Liz Carr28:06

And of course, your life has changed beyond reason. And I know that because I've had that too. So I have complete.

Liz Carr28:14

sympathy with that empathy I think. I don't even know how many years it took me to be okay with being who I am. On the night that I met Joe.

Liz Carr28:23

We were outside the pub.

Liz Carr28:25

There's you can visualize it now two blind people guide dogs there's a guy with thalidomide there's me disabled woman in a wheelchair and the woman who's about to be my wife

Liz Carr28:37

And then there's a homeless woman.

Liz Carr28:38

Outside the shop, next door.

Liz Carr28:41

She comes up to me, and she puts a pound coin.

Liz Carr28:44

on the arm of my chair.

Liz Carr28:47

I'm at the BBC.

Liz Carr28:49

I'm fine.

Liz Carr28:50

But a woman with no home, in a beautiful act of generosity, thinks I'm more needy than her.

Liz Carr28:59

So I kind of feel that

Liz Carr29:01

While we have such an inequality, we have an inequality in how we view certain lives, we have an inequality in healthcare and provision.

Liz Carr29:10

We don't support people. We don't have enough palliative care.

Liz Carr29:15

that I think I will keep.

Liz Carr29:17

Speaking out.

Presenter29:18

Yeah.

Liz Carr29:18

Liz

Presenter29:18

It's time for your next disc.

Liz Carr29:20

So I believe that Palliative Clare is one of my favourite songs. I would say that because I wrote it. In musical theatre, when you can't speak anymore, your emotions are so heightened, you've got so much you want to say, you're so desperate and urgent and all those things, you take to song.

Liz Carr29:41

And that's why I picked a musical. I hoped it would be entertaining, it would open people up to some different ideas and I did sing in it as well at the end because I had no more words. So this was my attempt to make over palliative care.

Speaker 430:00

They call me Palliative Claire My jobs in end-of-life care When fear and suffering are rare

Speaker 430:14

Degrees of pain you can feel

Speaker 430:19

Providing hope, not despair And when you die, I'll be there and palliative clair

Presenter30:29

Palliative Clare from The Musical That You Wrote Liz Carr. Assisted Suicide The Musical Sung by Clare Willoughby, music by Ian Hill, lyrics by Liz Carr in collaboration with Ian Hill and Mark Whitelaw.

Presenter30:42

So Liz, last year you won an Olivier Award for Best Supporting Actress for your role as the wheelchair user Dr Emma Bruckner in the play The Normal Heart. Now you were actually the first wheelchair user to play her and when it came to accepting the award at the Albert Hall there was an access problem. How did you deal with that?

Liz Carr31:01

You know, we've all seen those exciting award ceremonies. We see the faces in the audience and the strain and the acting when they hear that they've lost or won or whatever. And then they go up the front, up the steps onto the stage. I wanted my moment like everybody else, if I won. So we tried to make it work. We couldn't. So instead, what they did is that before my category,

Liz Carr31:27

We went backstage and what was wonderful is the other nominees, the other three women, came back as well. We all had somebody with us, so that when it was announced, I'd come through from the back of the stage and to the front.

Liz Carr31:42

But fisher.

Liz Carr31:44

It's accessible.

Presenter31:46

Liz, it's almost time to cast you away to your desert island.

Liz Carr31:49

Yeah.

Presenter31:49

What sort of picture do you have about what will greet you there?

Liz Carr31:53

Inaccessibility. I hate sand. So then we could go for a cold island, but you know, I'm not much better with ice and snow. So I'm seeing a bit of a difficult time. I don't want to fight you on this. I'm going to have to have, not as a luxury item, but as just basic kit, kind of a hover wheelchair, an all-terrain that can go on the sand and in the water. Oh, no, absolutely. Is that all right? Yeah, of course.

Presenter32:13

Sand and in the water. Oh, no, absolutely. Is that what you are? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Dished them out in the past, don't worry about it. That's not a luxury item.

Liz Carr32:15

Yeah, yeah.

Liz Carr32:17

Don't worry about it.

Presenter32:20

And what about the challenges that you'll encounter, Liz? What do you think the biggest will be?

Liz Carr32:24

The lack of an audience. What am I going to do without my audience? It's cutting.

Presenter32:29

I don't know, we're worried for you.

Presenter32:31

I think we better have one more track before you go. What's it gonna be?

Liz Carr32:34

I Feel Love by Donna Summer. It was the song that opened the normal heart. So when I hear it, I absolutely feel the nerves inside me and then I feel the joy. It was.

Liz Carr32:50

The best thing I have ever done. It's changed my life. I felt like I belonged.

Liz Carr32:59

I really did. I was coming up to 50 and I didn't feel like I didn't deserve to be there. I felt absolutely that it was the right time and I was the right person. So I had the time of my life. So every time I hear I feel love, it fills me with terror, nervous anxiety and joy. Much like life.

Presenter33:52

Soles car, the time has come. I'm going to send you away to the island. No audience there for you, mind. I'm giving you the books to take with you, the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book of your choice. I know you're not a fan of reading, so I'm sure they're going to be scant consolation.

Speaker 133:57

Right.

Liz Carr34:05

So I'm sure that

Liz Carr34:08

Yeah, I mean I think the big books will be good if my chair gets sort of stuck at all. So I'm seeing them as access aids, the other books. The book I'm gonna choose to take is kind of considered a children's book, The Little Prince. He ends up in the desert and talks about all the different kind of worlds that he's visited. When I read it, the first thing that

Liz Carr34:30

grasped from it was that, you know, it's only with the heart that you really see.

Liz Carr34:35

You don't see with your eyes properly, you know, through love and through feelings. That's how you make connections with people.

Presenter34:43

Well, you've got your souped up powerchair. Yeah. You've got copy of the little prince. What about your luxury items? Yeah.

Liz Carr34:49

I'm gonna take a pair of ruby slippers.

Presenter34:53

Perfect. Why?

Liz Carr34:54

Because I am going to put them on.

Liz Carr34:58

Click my heels together three times, say there's no place like home, and just as in The Wizard of Oz, hopefully get back to my wife and my cats.

Presenter35:07

And finally, Liz, which one of the eight tracks that you've shared with us today would you save from the waves if you had to?

Liz Carr35:14

I'm going to go with Sit Down because James have been with me my whole adult life from 18 to almost 51 and I want them with me.

Liz Carr35:25

Link

Presenter35:25

Yeah.

Liz Carr35:26

Uh

Presenter35:26

But

Liz Carr35:26

Uh Uh The

Presenter35:26

Uh

Liz Carr35:26

Very much fellow.

Presenter35:26

Letting us see your desert island diss. Thank you.

Presenter35:43

Hello, I hope that Liz is happy on her island with her hover wheelchair and ruby slippers. We've cast many actors away over the years including Dame Judy Dench, Anne-Marie Duff and Richard E. Grant. You can hear their programmes if you search through our Desert Island Discs programme archive or on BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Sarah Hockley and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Next time my castaway will be the comedian Dara O'Breen. I do hope you'll join us then.

Speaker 136:19

Hello, I'm Greg Jenner. I'm the host of You're Dead to Me, the Radio 4 comedy podcast that takes history seriously. And I'm delighted to say that we are back for series 6. Once again, I'll be joined by a fantastic cast of expert historians and top-notch comedians to talk about a wonderful, fascinating, surprising array of historical subjects from all over the world. We'll be popping on our biography hats to look at the lives of Cleopatra, Sarah Bernhardt, Frederick Douglass, Leonardo Vinci, and Simone Bolivar. Plus, we'll be exploring some weird and wonderful subjects, including the history of vital electricity, the Jacobites, and the Columbian Exchange. Find out what that is by listening in. And the series will be launching with a Valentine's Day special about dating and courtship in 18th century Britain. So that's series six of You're Dead to Me. Make sure to subscribe on BBC Sounds so you never miss an episode.

Liz Carr37:07

Bye.