Amanda Blanc

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs Podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:42

My castaway this week is the businesswoman Amanda Blanc. She's one of the most influential leaders in the city of London and is currently group CEO of Aviva, the UK's largest insurer. She has 30 years experience in her sector, starting out on the shop floor and working her way up to the top. She's now one of just eight female CEOs to lead a FTSE 100 company and is credited with transforming its fortunes after a number of difficult years. She grew up a world away from the corporate boardroom. Her self-belief and resilience were instilled during her upbringing in a coal mining family in the Rhonda Valley. Both qualities were in evidence when she spoke out against the sexist comments aimed at her at her own company's AGM last year. The story made headlines and her response to it won many fans. She says, I'm a person who likes change and likes to fix things. Once something becomes a care and maintenance role, I'm probably not the right skill set for that. Amanda Blanc, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you very much for a nice introduction. Well, it's a thrill to have you here. You are known, Amanda, by your colleagues as the queen of execution. I mean, quite a soubrique. Tell me more about what you think they mean by that. Well, I hope that's a compliment and not a criticism, but maybe it's both. Look, I just like to get things done. I think so often in life, people just talk and talk and talk and talk. And I think, you know, there's a time for talking, but there's definitely more of a time for doing. And if you get into something and you achieve something, okay, it may not be 100% perfect, but actually doing something is better than just sort of sitting and adjudicating at the side and, you know, saying, oh, well, maybe this might work, that might work. I don't know. I think just getting things done is important. So it's all about getting stuck in it. It is. I can hear your passion, and that's an interesting one because insurance does sometimes get a bad rap. I think one journalist memorably, if ungenerously, called it the boring uncle of the financial services family. That's so unfair. You love it. I think it's so unfair on insurance. And of course, from the outside, people say, oh, insurance companies don't pay claims and all of that sort of stuff.

Amanda Blanc2:32

It is.

Presenter2:52

We pay 98, 99% of all claims. But more importantly than that, the world doesn't function without insurance. A bus doesn't come out of a bus depot, a train doesn't leave a train station, an aeroplane doesn't fly. And I think we saw that a bit in the financial crisis when there was a moment where one of the very, very big insurers who insured a lot of the aircraft, it wasn't sure that they were going to operate. And the whole world was like, well, hang on, what's going to happen? So I think insurance plays a really key role. It underpins society.

Presenter3:22

All right, it's time to get stuck into your music, Amanda Plum. Disc number one: What have you chosen to take to your island first? So, the first disc is Cape Bush running F that Hill. I've recently bought an apartment in the city and I bought myself a Peloton bike to go into that apartment. And at five o'clock in the morning, I can be seen-hopefully, not by many people, but on my bike listening to Cape Bush, and it's got a brilliant beat, particularly for cycling up hills. I basically get the absolute joy of seeing the city wake up. So, I look out onto Tower Bridge, onto Canary Wharf, and I basically see the lights come up in the city, the office lights come on, and I'm cycling away, getting myself ready for the day. And you just think how lucky I am to be able to exercise, to be able to listen to this wonderful music, and to do what I do.

Speaker 24:15

Yeah.

Speaker 24:21

And make a deal with God, and I get him to swap out places. Be running up that road, be running up that hill, be running up that building.

Speaker 24:35

See if I could

Presenter4:46

Kate Bush and Running Up That Hill. So, Amanda Blanc, you were born in Treherbert, a former mining village in the Rhonda Valley. Both your grandfathers, I think, were miners. Did they start work young? People generally did in those days. Yeah, my grandfather started work at the age of 13. His father had to carry him home from work that day because he was just so exhausted. I mean, it's hard to even imagine what that was like. And look, you know, the really sad story about Charlie is that he actually witnessed the accident that killed his father. He saw a piece of wood sort of fall on his father's neck. Now, his father didn't die immediately, but he never went back to work after that. And he did die of that injury. So that had happened just a year after he started. So he was 14? Yes. And the stories that they told, I mean, the community was just everything. And they lived in a street which was actually at the top of the valley, which they called the town. Everybody in that street really worked in the mine or was connected to the mine in that way. And yeah, they had marching bands and they used to go on trips to Blackpool every year on the bus. And what about your other granddad? So that was Charlie. Yeah, that was dad's. So we used to call him Dad's and he was also in the mine. But he retired. He retired a miner and he worked in the other pit. So, you know, Charlie was working in Compark and he was working in Blancum. And he got into a slightly more senior role in the end, but he was still working underground and, you know, still his whole life revolved about that. So you describe this wonderful tight-knit community, Amanda, but of course the miners' strike in 1984, everything changed.

Amanda Blanc5:25

Yes.

Amanda Blanc5:49

And it's a

Amanda Blanc6:10

Damon

Amanda Blanc6:15

Yeah.

Presenter6:15

What do you remember about that time? Oh, everything. It really did change everything. I mean, the impact on the community was absolutely huge. Every chapel that was built, every business that was there, the train line which went from the pit down to the docks in Cardiff and Barrie, you know, these were put in place because of mining. The pubs that were built, and there were many, were all built around that mining community. So when the strike happened and the strike went on for so long, and I mean, it was so punitive to the miners. I mean, I can remember, you know, donating tins of food, but there was a lot of pride. People didn't want to take handouts. Of course, they didn't. You know, it was really tough. Do you spend a lot of time in the Rhonda today? And what's your connection with it? And what do you think about how things have changed? So my mum and dad still live in the Rhonda Valley. And before eight o'clock in the morning, we'll get phone calls from all the, you know, the various family and people around them. Are you okay? Can we do anything for you today? Do you need anything? Because obviously me and my sister live away from home. That sense of real belonging, real community absolutely still exists today.

Amanda Blanc6:17

Oh, I

Presenter7:25

Time for some more music, I think, Amanda. Your second choice today. What have you gone for? So this is the jam town called Malice. When I watched the film Billy Elliot, the bit where he taps his way through all of these houses in deep frustration, right, around the fact that his family didn't understand that he wanted to be a ballet dancer.

Amanda Blanc7:38

In the background.

Presenter7:46

And in that, obviously the lines of the houses just reminds me of Ronda Valley and just brought back so many memories.

Speaker 27:53

Stop dreaming of the fire lives and s

Speaker 48:05

Never done. Time is short and life is glorious. Have to ask to change the time or matter.

Presenter8:17

Town Called Malice, the Jam. Amanda Blanc, your mother, Glennis, sounds like she was a hard worker. What sort of jobs did she do? Oh, she was a shop worker, a factory worker. She used to work nights. What factory did she work in? She worked in, it was called a rubber wheels factory. Now, I don't know the actual name, I can't remember the actual name, but she used to peel rubber off wheels, and then she also worked in the canteen in that factory. So these wheels used to be delivered. She used to do some homeworking. They used to be delivered to the house, and she used to have this really sharp knife. And she used to like shave the rubber edges off the wheel and then they would go back. She used to see her do this. Yeah, she was very keen for you and your sister to explore other interests by the sound of it. What did she encourage you to do? Oh, everything. I'd go home and it would be you'd have tea really quickly and then it would be right, okay, what's tonight? Swimming, you know, singing, piano, clarinet, brownies.

Amanda Blanc8:49

And then they would watch her do this.

Amanda Blanc8:56

Nope.

Amanda Blanc9:01

That's

Presenter9:05

You mentioned piano. That that was a a passion of yours, I think. Well, I was grade eight. I got to grade eight piano. I would say it was more a passion of my mother's than it was of mine. You know, she w she would basically say, Have you done your practice yet? And I'd be like, Oh

Amanda Blanc9:14

Ish.

Presenter9:19

So she was supporting you in that? Did you have a piano in the middle? I would say nagging would be the other word I would use. She was pu supporting. Did you have a piano in the house? Yeah, we did, and I can remember we had the most beautiful new piano, and they saved up for that piano, and it really was beautiful. And it was an upright Yamaha piano.

Amanda Blanc9:21

Did you

Amanda Blanc9:22

I'm not engaged.

Amanda Blanc9:25

She was put supporting.

Amanda Blanc9:27

Did you have people?

Amanda Blanc9:28

And

Presenter9:36

And it glistened. It shone. It was beautiful. And it was in our best room. There was not a scratch on that piano from the day it arrived to the day that they sold it. And what about your father, David? He was sales manager for a chemical company when he was working. So that must have involved quite a lot of travel. It did, yeah. But I remember he had this little office, and you know, when computers were first there, and you know, they were just basically black and green screens, and there was a curtain in one in our living room where he used to sit behind the curtain doing his work till very late at night. He was an incredibly hard, also an incredibly hard worker.

Amanda Blanc9:50

And it was worth it

Amanda Blanc9:53

Oh.

Presenter10:10

Amanda, you're a lifelong rugby fan. What got you interested in that in the first place? My best friend, Joanne Barnett, her father was president of the Welsh Rugby Union and I can remember it so well. It was the sort of late 70s. And sometimes I used to get to go with Joanne down to the Angel Hotel in Cardiff, not go to the game. But we used to be able to listen to the sound of the game going on. You could hear the atmosphere. You could hear the singing. You could hear the atmosphere. But you didn't go with your own dad?

Amanda Blanc10:34

Fair enough.

Amanda Blanc10:37

But yeah.

Presenter10:39

No, we didn't go to rugby. No, no, my dad. He can't watch rugby. Why? He loves it. Because he's a jinx. So he used to go, he used to go on the trips when he was younger. I do remember he did that occasionally, but actually, he now will say. I saw last weekend when obviously Wales played England. I said to him, Did you watch the game? He said, oh, no, no, no, no. My mum watched it, but he had to go to another room because he believes that he's a jinx. It's time for your next piece of music. What have you got for us? This is Thank You for the Music by Abba. And the reason that this is such a fantastic song is I remember this so well singing this in chapel with my sister Catherine. And we would have been, there would have been about 12 of us, I guess. It would have been quite unusual to sing such modern music, but we had a guy called Kevin Raleigh who used to lead us in chapel. And he said, let's sing Thank You for the Music. And I just think you listen to the words of this song and thank you for the music. And I just love music and it's just a brilliant song.

Speaker 211:36

Uh

Speaker 411:36

So I say thank you for the music, the songs I'm singing.

Speaker 411:44

Thanks for all, enjoy their bringing.

Speaker 411:48

Who can live without it?

Speaker 211:51

Asking Lord of the Steve, what will I be without a song?

Speaker 411:59

There's one I think, so I say thank you for the music.

Speaker 412:05

Waiting to me.

Presenter12:09

ABBA, and thank you for the music. Amanda Blanc, you went to Trioche Comprehensive School. Did you keep up with your music interests while you were there? Oh, yeah, absolutely. In fact, I got a bit of a confession. I never actually went to PE at all. I would, you know, bunk off to the music centre and do something either with the orchestra or with my clarinet or piano or singing because I just loved music so much. Were you tempted to study music at university? You said grade eight. I mean, that's getting up there. I had grade eight on the piano and the clarinet, and I applied actually to do music. And when I was going for the interviews, I was thinking.

Amanda Blanc12:35

He said great.

Presenter12:45

I'm not good enough. I'm nothing if not totally pragmatic. And when you can see other people and you just think, do you know what? I'm not going to be good enough to make a career out of that or a life out of that. So then I sort of switched to history. That must have been quite a big decision to make and quite a a disappointment in its way that actually this path that you thought was going to be the one you took.

Amanda Blanc12:48

Uh

Amanda Blanc12:55

Yeah.

Presenter13:08

Wasn't going to be open to it, it just wasn't going to be possible. Yeah, it was this it was disappointing because I you know, I had genuinely built my whole life up that I was going to to to do music. So, how did you deal with that?

Presenter13:19

I mean, in a way, I always tend to, and it is, I think, just a feature of the way I am, is that you're sort of disappointed for a little while and then you just think, okay, what next? Brush yourself down, move on. And you've got to be resilient, haven't you? You know, I mean, in life generally. But you just think. You must have had that then. Yeah, I guess so. And it was just a case of, okay, so that's not going to work. What is? So I applied for history and I was able to go to Liverpool and study modern history. So modern history in particular, why that course? Oh, it was the one that was available.

Amanda Blanc13:31

You know, I mean

Amanda Blanc13:33

You just think well

Presenter13:50

I'm not going to pretend there was anything more scientific to it than that. I'm not sure I thought about what I was going to do next at any point. It was just a matter of, you know, enjoying what I was doing. And then I finished and it was okay, what now?

Presenter14:05

So what did happen next? I had two job offers. One was with Mid-Glamorgan County Council, which was a graduate scheme. So I was lucky to get two graduate job offers. And that was, you know, stay at home. My mum could do my washing and cooking and all of that. And that would have been lovely. Or go to Luton and become a graduate for commercial union. And that's what I chose to do. Luton won. Why? Oh, my gosh. Because I thought if I didn't go, then I probably never would. And what did you think about insurance at the time? What did you know about it? Nothing.

Amanda Blanc14:13

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Blanc14:25

It's blue and white.

Presenter14:34

I only knew about your car insurance, you know, or your home insurance. I didn't know anything about anything else. But you learned really quickly. You did everything. You did claims and underwriting. You know, whereas today you would have to go to different parts of the country to do all of those things. At that point, you were able to learn everything in one place. Well, I think on that note, we better have some more music, Amanda. Disc number four. What are we going to hear next? So, disc number four is Tainted Love Soft Sell. This takes me back to 1981. Me and my best friend, Catherine Savage, on the beach in Aber Avon.

Amanda Blanc14:52

Okay.

Amanda Blanc14:54

So this

Presenter15:05

You know, you do those things where you record it on your tape recorder. I know you're not meant to do that. So tape it off the radio. Tape off the radio on a Sunday night. And then you'd have your pencil and you'd rind it back and then you'd play it again. And, you know, you'd like to think that it was a little bit like the Algarve in Aborab and it was not. It was probably cold and windy, but we loved this song and we played this song constantly.

Amanda Blanc15:10

Definitely.

Speaker 415:28

Sometimes I feel I've got to

Speaker 415:33

Ah

Speaker 215:33

Run away, I've got to get away from the pain you drive into the heart of me. The love we share seems to go nowhere, and I've lost

Speaker 415:49

My light, for I toss and turn, I can't sleep at night Once I ran through

Presenter16:00

Soft Zell and Tainted Love. So, Amanda Blanc, at just twenty nine you moved to Leicester, where you became Commercial Union's youngest ever and first female branch manager. That was a huge turning point for you. How did you react when you got the job? Disbelief.

Presenter16:16

I mean, I said, no, no, no, I mean, that can't be right. And they were like, no, no, no.

Presenter16:21

You're going to be fine. But I was 29 and I walked into this Leicester branch and it was on Charles Street in Leicester and it was very, very old-fashioned building. So, I mean, you know, I'll give you an idea. The branch manager's office had its own toilet. I mean, I stress, I did not use this toilet, you know, because, but it was very sort of that's it was very old-fashioned, very hierarchical. And were you managing a lot of people who were older than you? Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of people, most people were older than me. And, you know, when you walk in, they were calling you like Mrs. and I was like, no, no, my name's Amanda. And, you know, it took quite a lot to try and change the culture. But, you know, I think I did, and it was really fun. And Leicester was just a brilliant city and a great place to work.

Amanda Blanc16:39

Hierarchical

Amanda Blanc16:42

Yeah, but you

Presenter17:01

So even though you you said you you felt disbelief when they told you you'd got the job, I mean, there must have been part of you that was confident enough to take it. Yeah, I mean you I think you have an inner confidence, but I'm not going to pretend that I didn't walk in there on that first day, you know, thinking

Presenter17:18

Yeah.

Presenter17:19

I mean, how is this going to pan out? And I say this to all the people I speak to today. You know, if I'm speaking to a 25-year-old and they'll say, you know, when you do the results, how you know, you look so confident. And I'm going, what, you think that I don't feel butterflies? You think that I'm not nervous? Even today.

Speaker 217:33

Do it now.

Presenter17:35

You get over it more quickly, but you still feel that.

Presenter17:40

It's time for some more music. This is your fifth choice today, Amanda. What are we going to hear and why are you taking it with you to the island? So, this is me is the song. Keala Settle from The Greatest Showman. I mean, there's a little bit about me in it, obviously. That song particularly just really was just a monumental song. Amanda, you said there's a bit of me in this. What bit of music? Be yourself.

Amanda Blanc18:03

See your s

Presenter18:04

And I think there's too often that goes on a lot in the city. You know, you're pretending to be something that you're not. And in my whole career, I think I've seen a lot of that. But I just think if you turn up as yourself, you can't go far wrong.

Amanda Blanc18:21

When I stand up, when I draw

Presenter18:47

This is me, Kiarala Settle, from the soundtrack to the greatest showman. Amanda Blanc, in 1999 you joined AXA as a regional director. Now you had your first daughter Caitlin three years later and you've talked about the time that you allowed yourself to take off as maternity leave. How soon did you actually go back? I was back within about six to seven weeks I think. It was too soon. How do you judge that? How did you know? Well I was exhausted. I mean literally and I think then you're not good at anything. And why did you go back so soon? Well because I really did love my job and I think I was really good at my job and I could see that my career was going really really well and you know I and I wanted to do the best for my children and I felt that was going to be for the best. But you know would I make the same decision again? Probably not.

Amanda Blanc19:11

Yeah.

Presenter19:32

I think it was in 2006 you were actually offered the post of CEO of the retail broking division for Towergate Insurance, but you weren't sure that you should take it. Why not? I really felt that it was a bit mad to take this big new job as my first CEO position, three months pregnant. But it was at that point that Ken...

Amanda Blanc19:50

Mm-hmm.

Presenter19:52

Really, my husband said, actually, I think you're going to do really well, and I want to support you in that. And I'm happy to give up my career for you to do that. So you were both in insurance? Yeah, he was in banking at that point, but he'd been in insurance prior to that. But he said, you know, I think that it would be very, it's going to be very difficult. And you took three weeks' maternity at that time. I mean, that must have been just physically stupid as well. And also, I was 40. It was so difficult physically to exhaust it. I was older. I was completely exhausted. And the head office for Tarragate was in Maidstone, and I lived in Manchester.

Amanda Blanc20:03

Yeah, he puts it in the middle.

Amanda Blanc20:13

Yeah.

Amanda Blanc20:15

The secret.

Amanda Blanc20:18

And also I was forty.

Amanda Blanc20:20

I was older.

Presenter20:27

Oh, Che you know, in Nantwich in Cheshire. So it wasn't just that the job was intellectually demanding, it was also physically challenging. I was getting the train to London, which was my base.

Amanda Blanc20:29

Uh

Amanda Blanc20:34

It was a

Presenter20:39

Every day, the sort of 6.25 train from cruise station every morning. And I would literally I would open the laptop as soon as I would get on. I would work all the way down and then I'd get about the four o'clock train back. I would work all the way back. And it was exhausting. It was crazy.

Presenter20:54

You mentioned your husband Ken saying, Okay, I'm going to give up my career and be there for the kids day to day.

Presenter21:02

So he took his path and made his peace with it. And what about yours? What did you have to reconcile? So I think I had to reconcile that I wasn't always going to be there for the school productions or for the parents' evenings. But everything in life is about choices. And once you've made your choice, then I think you've got to reconcile yourself that you should be there for the really important things. And it allows you to prioritise.

Presenter21:25

So, you know, when they're taking the lead in a production of Peter Pan as Rhiannon did, I was there and I saw it, you know, three times because she had the lead part. And that's when you prioritise. And in terms of, you know, your current role and life now, you are quite vocal about ensuring that the staff that work for you have a good work-life balance. Now, you haven't always practiced that. Is that because you haven't been able to? And how committed are you to making sure that they can? Things can change going forward? Yeah, I mean, so I got better when we moved to Hampshire, which we did in 2011. And then I was able, I had a much shorter commute, and then I was able to practice what I preached around work-life balance. And whilst I would go in early, I would always leave early, you know, leave at five o'clock so that I could be home for the evening.

Amanda Blanc21:55

Yeah.

Presenter22:12

And I would always say to my team as I was walking out of the office, what are you doing? What are you doing here? Go home. You've got lives. You've got families. Go home and live that life. Now, I would like to say that today I still practice that, but being the FTSE 100 CEO isn't just, you know, I would like to say that you can have a work-life violence, but genuinely, you live, you breathe, you sleep, you eat it, you think about it constantly. My children are older, they're 16 and 20, but it is all-encompassing.

Presenter22:41

It's time to go to the music, Amanda. Number six. What are we going to hear next? This is Dignity by Deacon Blue. This is the song really for Ken. He's a really bright guy, you know, physics graduate, an MBA, and he gave all of that app to support the family. And of course, that decision is taken in many households in the reverse. So I think it's really important to acknowledge that. And then there's the deal that you have to have around.

Presenter23:04

How you communicate with each other and how you respect each other, and how that communication needs to be really, really strong between the two of you. It doesn't always work, but you know, I think it's key. And of course, Ken is Scottish, and so there's a little bit about that in it as well. But this is a song that he loves. The children will always go, oh, when this song comes on, because we both sing it really loud.

Speaker 423:25

West Coast, through villages and towns. Have me on my holidays. They'll be doing the rounds. They're like six.

Speaker 223:35

Before I got a housey, I saved my money, see isn't she pretty? That ship called D

Presenter23:55

Deacon Blue and Dignity. Amanda Blanc, in July 2020, you were appointed group CEO of Aviva, Britain's largest insurer. Now, it was struggling when you took over, and since your appointment, things have started to turn around, but still, you had a surprising experience at your AGM last year. What exactly happened, Amanda? Talk me through that day from your point of view. Yeah, I mean, go figure it. It was a really interesting day. I had just finished my speech and I sat down and somebody stood up. It was an elderly gentleman, and he stood up and he said, It's great to see so many women on the board, you know, because they're so good at housekeeping.

Amanda Blanc24:16

Yeah.

Presenter24:32

And that set the tone effectively for the meeting. And then another shareholder basically said that I wasn't the man for the job.

Presenter24:41

And then there was a follow-up by another shareholder about, you know, needing to wear the trousers. And they compared me to a previous CEO and said, you know, that I should wear trousers. What was going through your mind? I mean, complete disbelief. And the Financial Times were in the room. And so they were like commenting on it. And I was just about to get on a plane to go to Canada. So I went home and I was having dinner with my kids. And my daughters were saying, We can't believe that has happened. Because of course, by that point, it was getting paid off. The FTI had caught light. So the FT had been in the room. The FT had been in the room. They had written a story about it. And people were talking about it. And I talked to them about it. I said, you know, this is what has happened today. And as I was sort of 35,000 feet in the air, I thought, actually, do you know what? This is not acceptable.

Amanda Blanc25:09

And

Amanda Blanc25:10

So the

Amanda Blanc25:11

And the actual

Amanda Blanc25:14

Yeah, yeah.

Presenter25:25

I'm not happy about this at all. And I thought, how am I going to deal with it? And I thought, I'm going to write a LinkedIn article.

Presenter25:31

And I posted it.

Presenter25:33

And uh then I switched my phone on and literally my phone was going absolutely. So what did you said? What did you write? I I wrote that, you know, that for too long I had sat back and not said anything, but it's time to step up, it's time it's time to talk and it's time for this stuff to stop.

Presenter25:49

And judge me by my results, but not by the fact that I'm wearing a dress. And when I started reading the stories in the private responding to what you're doing all over the world, I was getting this happened to me, this happened to me, this happened to me, this happened to me, other FTSE CEOs saying,

Amanda Blanc25:56

So people stay at least responsible.

Amanda Blanc25:59

What

Presenter26:07

sometimes the same shareholders. You know, it th the these things had happened. I I've often thought as a woman, you know, I've done very well and I should be happy with that and not really appreciated my role as a role model.

Presenter26:21

You don't like to think of yourself as a role model. It feels big-headed or something. It feels ridiculous.

Amanda Blanc26:24

Feels ridiculous.

Presenter26:26

Why should I be a role model? But then, if you're not going to do it, who is? This wasn't the first time that you'd found yourself dealing with a hostile situation, Amanda. In 2020, you joined the Welsh Rugby Union Board as chair of the Professional Rugby Board, which runs the game in Wales. You resigned the following year. What had happened there? I spent two years on the Welsh Rugby Union Board, and I would say that I'm a reasonable business person. I've been in business for a long period of time. But when you are just simply not listened to, some misogynistic comments. What kind of comments? There was one which was, you know, what do you know about governance? Well, quite a lot, actually. I've got 32 years of experience and I operate in a regulated business.

Presenter27:11

Nobody else was asked that question but I was.

Presenter27:15

And I got an apology for that actually, a written apology for it. And you gave a a blistering leaving speech about what had happened, getting things off your chest. I mean, how did the experience leave you feeling personally?

Amanda Blanc27:21

I did.

Amanda Blanc27:23

Game things are

Presenter27:27

I still feel that genuinely and I you know and I don't say this very often if they if I had been listened to that we wouldn't have had the situation that would have happened over the last number of weeks, particularly in respect to the women's the women's game. And you know, and there was a women's a women's review.

Amanda Blanc27:40

Uh

Presenter27:42

Which was undertaken about the way that women were treated very, very differently to men. And I called for the women's review to be made public and I called for the board governance to be modernized. And neither of those two things have happened. And we find ourselves now in the situation where a lot of women have come forward to say that they were badly treated. And so it left me feeling deeply frustrated, very sad, actually. But I'm hopeful that with the review that's now been undertaken, and I hope that, you know, I hope that I'm asked to contribute to that review, that there will be change. But it needs to change.

Presenter28:16

Amanda, it's time to take a minute for some music. Your disc number seven, if you would. This is Taylor Swift and the Man. My 16-year-old daughter is a massive Taylor Swift fan, and that's part of the reason for the song. But the other reason for the song is that Taylor Swift, I think, is pretty iconic in terms of the way she has stood up for herself. I think if you listen to the words which you'll hear in the opening, you know, she's basically saying, Do I have to be like this to be able to be successful? An alpha male. And I would say, you do not have to be like that.

Speaker 228:49

I'm so sick of running as fast as I can

Speaker 228:53

Wondering if I'd get there quick or if I was a mid in And I'm so sick of them coming at me again

Speaker 229:01

Cause if I was a man

Speaker 229:03

Then I'd be the man

Presenter29:04

Man, I'll be the man.

Presenter29:09

I'll be the man

Presenter29:14

They're a soldier

Presenter29:17

Taylor Swift and the Man. Amanda Blanc, I know that your Twitter account is named after your passion for shoes. Oh, and I'm duty bound to explore this at some point in the programme. The time is now. How extensive is the collection? Well, it's extensive. Okay. Don't tell Ken. It's all right. He'll never know. He'll never know. Please don't tell anybody. So it has its own book, and I take pictures of the shoes so that I can sort of design. It has a book, you know, in that like a photo album with the pictures.

Amanda Blanc29:23

Oh.

Amanda Blanc29:34

It's all right. He'll never know.

Amanda Blanc29:40

It has a

Presenter29:45

And it's beautiful. So when you're planning an outfit, you can flick through the box.

Presenter29:50

I mean, I know that that feels ridiculous, but the whole shoe account actually started as a bit of fun. We were going to a conference in Manchester, and one of my team said, Wouldn't it be funny if your shoes had their own Twitter account to go to this conference? And I said, Oh, okay, maybe that would be actually quite fun. I'm afraid that your heels will do you no favours on the island, and I am about to cast you away. Oh. In your professional opinion, Amandra, I wonder how you'd rate your chances of navigating the challenges of the island successfully. Very, very low. Not a very practical in terms of being able to look after myself person, to be honest. So, the practical side, not so good. Emotionally, how will you be with the isolation? Oh, no, I would hate that. I love being with people.

Amanda Blanc30:19

Successfully.

Presenter30:34

I get all my energy from people, so that would be really, really sad. You are a very high energy person, though. Will you try and escape? I think you you seem the type of- Well, I'm not a bad swimmer. Do you think it would work though?

Amanda Blanc30:40

Tell them

Presenter30:47

Maybe it will be worth a shot. We'll let you choose one more disc before you go though, Amanda. What's your last selection today going to be? So my last selection has to be the Welsh National Anthem.

Amanda Blanc30:52

What's your last

Presenter30:58

But it has to be a very specific version of the Welsh national anthem, which is the version which was sung before Wales beat England in what was then the Millennium Stadium. And, you know, there we are in our stadium, 70,000 people with the yellow daffodil hats and all the anticipation and the players sort of holding on to each other. You know, all these phenomenal players and the emotion on their face as they sing this song and that the music. And let's be honest, it's the best anthem. I mean, it is the best anthem. And you see our sort of, if you like, older brother, the England fans, you know, a slight nod to say, that's a good anthem. You know, that's good. We recognise that that is good and we like to hear you sing it. I'll give you that.

Presenter32:21

The Welsh national anthem, sung by fans in Cardiff's Millennium Stadium just before Wales went on to beat England in the 2013 Six Nations Championship.

Presenter32:31

Amanda Blanc, it's time. I'm going to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and you can take one other book of your choice. What are you going to go for? I'm going to take little women.

Presenter32:44

Louisa May Alcott. That's right. I just read this book maybe a hundred times when I was younger. Four very different women, well, five of you include the mum. And I just love it. It's a great story.

Speaker 232:44

Yeah.

Presenter32:56

You can also have a luxury item to make your stay on the island a little bit more enjoyable. What would you like? I'm going to take the photo album of all the photos I've ever taken. Not of the shoes, to be clear. Not of the shoes, to be clear. To just be totally clear. Because I think that that will help. You know, if you can't be physically with somebody, then at least you can be able to see them. So friends and family would be too.

Amanda Blanc33:05

Not of the shoes, to be a little bit of a trend.

Amanda Blanc33:17

Obviously two.

Presenter33:18

And finally, which one track of the eight that you've selected today would you rush to save from the waves? It's really a tough one that, but I'm going to go for Tainted Love.

Presenter33:26

The 80s was such an iconic decade of music, and that for me is one of the iconic songs. Amanda Blanc, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Thank you for having me.

Presenter34:13

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Amanda. Maybe she can fashion a nice pair of low-heeled sandals from Driftwood. We've cast away many business people over the years, including Deborah Meaden, Nicola Horlick, and John Timpson. You can find these episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and through BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Jackie Marjoram, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the actor and activist, Liz Carr. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 435:02

I mean, they called it shock and awe in the outside world.

Amanda Blanc35:04

Oh my god, they were horrible things.

Speaker 435:07

Why did the US and UK invade Iraq?

Amanda Blanc35:10

I gotta tell you, we would have invaded Iraq if Saddam Hussein had a rubber band and paper clip.

Speaker 435:16

I'm Gordon Carrera, the BBC's security correspondent. So many of the stories I've covered have emerged from Iraq.

Speaker 235:23

How on earth do you go about working with people when you are a foreign invader?

Speaker 435:29

Why was the intelligence wrong? That's one conclusion. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to comment further. In Shock and War, Iraq, 20 years on, I'm trying to get to the truth of what happened and its legacy today. But honestly, these things get taken out of the context in which they're said and written at the time.

Speaker 435:47

Search now for Shock and War on BBC Sounds to get new insights into possibly the most controversial period in recent history.