David Sedaris

Speaker 20:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts.

Presenter0:05

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were castaway to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:44

My castaway this week is the writer and broadcaster David Sederis. He's one of America's most celebrated and funniest authors, with 13 best-selling books and decades worth of radio recordings, including his long-running acclaimed series here on Radio 4, Meet David Sederis. His essays are observational, drawn from his own life and extremely funny, whether it's the time he tried and failed to become a performance artist or his stint as a Christmas elf called Crumpet. There's darkness in there too, however. He's written about toxic family relationships, drug addiction, obsessive-compulsive disorder, suicide and death. They may not sound like the ingredients for award-winning comedy, but as he puts it, everything's funny eventually. He says, I'm not witty. I don't rattle things off. I'm really not the kind of person you'd want at your dream dinner party. In retrospect, I can think of things to say, but it takes six months. David Sederis, welcome to Desert Island Discs. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure. Now, I know, David, that you're never off duty as a writer. You carry a notebook with you at all times. You have it right there. What are you looking for exactly? What tends to occupy your mind and catch your eye?

Presenter1:52

Well, I guess I'm just always looking for something that seems absurd to me.

Presenter1:58

You know, the other day I I stopped in this place because I'm I'm doing these Japanese lessons. They're done on the phone. And so I went to a fitness center cafe, and then I heard the sound of a radio, and it was this man playing a radio behind me.

Presenter2:14

And he looked exactly like Wallace from Wallace and Grommet, if Wallace was a real person. I it was uncanny, and that was fascinating to me. Just, you know, something to note down, because I wanted to say to him, like,

Presenter2:29

Everyone's kind of enjoying the quiet. Why do you have to be playing a radio? But then I looked at him and I thought, okay, carry on.

Presenter2:38

You're sharing your music with us today, David. Tell us about this this first choice today and why you're taking it with you to your desert island. The first song is I Don't Wanna Play House by Tammy Wynette.

Presenter2:48

When I was thirteen years old I got a job in Raleigh, North Carolina, selling popcorn peanuts and ice cold drinks at a place called the Dorton Arena.

Presenter2:58

And they had a lot of heavy metal concerts like Fog Hat would come by and Deep Purple and Black Sabbath.

Presenter3:07

And all the guys who sold popcorn, peanuts, and ice cold drinks loved those bands. And so I pretended to love them too. But then they had country music, jamborees, and it was.

Presenter3:16

Loretta Lynn, George Jones. I saw Tammy One at with George Jones. Oh, wow. Yeah.

David Sedaris3:21

Nothing.

Presenter3:22

And I pretended like everybody else, oh, I hate this music, but I really liked it and something that impressed me about it.

Presenter3:32

The heavy metal bands would do their show, they would play their allotted set and then they were gone. But the country music artists would go to their trailers and they would sign autographs for hours and hours and hours and hours. As long as there was somebody who wanted an autograph, they would sign it. I don't know, it's something that later when I started

Presenter3:52

You know, being on stage myself, I just always thought, oh, it seems like a good idea to respect and appreciate the people who come out and see you. One thing that when I look back on it too, it's a concert and you're walking up and down the aisle saying, popcorn, peanuts, ice cold drinks. Well, someone's trying to perform. I do it in my sleep. I think, popcorn, peanuts, that's going to be my last words. I'm going to be on my deathbed. Do you have any last words? Popcorn, peanuts, ice-cold drinks. When I heard our little girl say to him.

Presenter4:31

I don't wanna play house

Presenter4:35

I know Yeah.

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Be fine.

Presenter4:41

I've watched Mommy.

Presenter4:44

And daddy, and if that's the

David Sedaris4:48

Wait, it's

Presenter4:48

Wait, it's done.

David Sedaris4:50

I don't want to.

Presenter4:54

Tammy Winnette and I Don't Wanna Playhouse. David Tederis, I want to talk about your family. Of course, they'll already be familiar to your readers, but for the benefit of everybody else, you're born in Johnson City in New York State, 1956, grew up in Raleigh, as you said. You're the second oldest of six children. You've written so beautifully about your mother, Sharon, and I know that you say she held the family together. Tell me about her. When you think about her, how do you picture her?

Presenter5:21

I never saw her in a pair of trousers ever. She would never leave the house without her hair and make up done. You know, I guess very

Presenter5:30

Traditional in one sense, but at the same time very funny and very.

Presenter5:36

deserving of an audience. I guess I feel like if I have a purpose, it's to make the world love my mother as much as we did. You said she deserved an audience. She had a ready-made one by the sounds of it with you kids. That description of all of you sitting around the dinner table hours after the meal was over and she was holding court telling stories. She was a very good storyteller and she was also the kind of person who would talk to anyone.

Presenter6:05

You know, I mean, if she's in line at the d dry cleaner.

Presenter6:09

She would. And my mother.

Presenter6:11

It was like me in that

Presenter6:14

You know, I just started a new notebook, so I don't have anything really great in this notebook yet, but.

Presenter6:21

When something good does happen,

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I'll work it for days, and my mother would do the same thing, kind of honing it and getting it to where it needs to be, but

Presenter6:32

There was no end product for her.

Presenter6:35

Your mother went through a difficult period after the kids left home. She she developed a problem with alcohol. What do you remember about that time?

Presenter6:45

I mean that that was the thing. I mean, if my mother had had access to a wider audience, I think when the kids left home then she would have been okay. But my mother really did get lonely, and it was just her and my father in the house, and it wasn't it was a rotten marriage. I mean, the way that he

Presenter7:05

spoke to her, it was just chilling. And she she always drank, but then she always had rules. But just her rules started getting lax. And I'll forever kick myself for not

Presenter7:18

having some sort of an intervention.

Presenter7:21

But it didn't occur to me till until recently that people in my family don't talk about anything.

Presenter7:27

You know, like if if somebody is making a mess of themselves, you know, you you might not talk to that person for a while, but you wouldn't confront them on it. So you couldn't find the words to tell your mother that she needed to stop what she was doing, that you were worried about her, and that that you wanted to help her.

Presenter7:45

Yeah, I don't know.

Presenter7:47

How

Presenter7:48

I would have said it.

Presenter7:50

It's time for your second disc today, David. What's it gonna be? We moved to North Carolina when I was in third grade, and so we had did this little choral thing for the parents, and we sang the song Where is Love? And I just remember even at the time, like, isn't this kinda dark?

Presenter8:12

Were you a good singer? Did you have a voice back then? I've heard your Billy Holiday, which is cracking. No, but I mean I was with a group of other kids, but I remember thinking, like, I like being on stage. The problem are all these other people.

David Sedaris8:32

Uh

Presenter8:32

Yeah.

David Sedaris8:35

Her is a law

David Sedaris8:38

Yeah.

Presenter8:39

Yeah.

David Sedaris8:39

As it pulls from skies above

Presenter8:45

Is it underneath the willow tree?

Presenter8:53

That I've been dreaming oh

Presenter9:01

Where is Love? from the musical Oliver, composed by Lionel Bart and performed by Keith Hampshire with the original London cast. David Sederis, your father, Lou, was Greek by birth and he worked as a mechanical engineer. You've written about your very difficult relationship with him. He was highly critical of you. Why do you think he was like that?

Presenter9:22

I don't know, even as a kid, you know, you don't know that you're

Presenter9:27

gay. But I knew that I was different, you know, and I knew that there was something he just couldn't abide.

David Sedaris9:36

Mm-hmm.

Presenter9:39

I imagine. You know, I mean, I w I was a sissy.

Presenter9:43

You know, like I remember he gave me a

Presenter9:46

A football helmet. And it's like, ooh. I mean, I used it to carry dolls in.

Presenter9:53

It just wasn't for me. And I tried, but

Presenter9:58

My dad's mantra, I mean, it wasn't his mantra, it was just what he said to me over and over again was.

Presenter10:05

You are a big fat zero. I mean over and over and over and over. He took great pains to make things difficult for you and to plan for things to be difficult for you even after he died at ninety eight.

Presenter10:17

Oh yeah.

Presenter10:18

But also like

Presenter10:20

Everyone else he paid to go to college, right? And I was going to go to college and I was leaving the next day. He said, I'm not paying for you to go to college. So I went to school and I got a loan and I got grants and I put myself through college. And then as a graduation gift, he gave me an IRA.

Presenter10:37

And I said, what's that?

David Sedaris10:38

What's an IRS?

Presenter10:41

And this is going to outgrow by leaps and bounds. He talked about it for years, my individual retirement gala. Anyway, he died. He never set it up.

Presenter10:52

I mean you did right. As as long as my father had power, he used it to hurt me. Now that he's gone, I wonder how it feels to know that he's gone and he can't.

Presenter11:03

It feels great.

Presenter11:06

And I know that might sound really

Presenter11:09

Harsh, but

Presenter11:11

I don't care.

Presenter11:13

I don't think you hear that very often, that sense of relief when somebody dies who has put you through so much. Well, it s it sounds monstrous, you know. And I was reading an essay from my last book and

Presenter11:29

There was somebody who worked at the theater and their job was to control the book signing line. And to everyone who came along, she said nobody should talk about their father the way that man did.

Presenter11:38

And I just thought, you didn't know my father. And I know that there are a lot of people who that's their attitude. Nobody, you know, you shouldn't speak yell of the dead. Why not? Is that the rule? You can treat someone however you want, and they can never talk about it. They can't say, like, thank God that's over. You know, you kind of get what you paid for.

David Sedaris11:47

Hello.

Presenter12:01

I think we better have some music, David Sederis. What are we going to hear next? Well, this is Gingy.

Presenter12:08

And it's sung by Maria Bethena. And this is one thing I'll say. You know, my dad was a huge jazz buff, and so we started listening to like Bossa Nova music

Presenter12:19

And I appreciate

Presenter12:22

That he exposed me to jazz. But one thing I really love about this song in particular is that after the Brazilian versions, and they translated into English, right? And Sinatra did a version, and Ella Fitzgerald and Sarah Vaughan did a version.

Presenter12:38

But

Presenter12:39

I don't want the translation. The song is richer to me.

Presenter12:43

when I imagine the words.

Presenter12:47

Uh

Presenter12:57

Omun Do Sere a Jing Je

Presenter13:01

Tu Tu Jinji.

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Ling dog

Presenter13:10

Ah, Jay.

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Siounji voice

Presenter13:17

Gingee by Maria Bethania

Presenter13:19

David Sederis, in nineteen sixty four, when you were eight, the family moved to Raleigh in North Carolina, as we've heard, and it was around this time that you developed what today we might call obsessive compulsive behavior patterns. What form did they take?

Presenter13:33

You know, I'd go to bed and then I have to get out of bed and then I have to touch my nose to the light bulb in the refrigerator. And then I'd go back to bed and I think, wait a minute, I didn't do it in the right place and I have to get upstairs and do it again and it was just exhausting, all the be little behaviors that I had.

Presenter13:49

You know, I would roll my eyes deep into my head, and then I had to jerk my head to get a certain

Presenter13:55

Hmm.

Presenter13:57

And I'd make noises. So it got to the point where it's pretty obvious something was going on. Have you ever had t treatment for any of that?

Presenter14:07

No, I think because there were so many kids in the family that you just couldn't you know, my parents couldn't

Presenter14:15

Drop everything for one.

Presenter14:17

Child

Presenter14:19

But no, and I don't know what it would have been called. I mean, it had been suggested it was kind of a juvenile Tourette's that a lot of people grow out of and so it went away.

David Sedaris14:28

Mm-hmm.

Presenter14:30

And David, I mean, adolescence was a complicated time for you. You started coming to terms with your sexuality when you were at high school.

Presenter14:38

Was school a difficult place for you to be at that time?

Presenter14:42

You would never have said the word gay, and you would never have even assumed that anybody else was, because it was just the worst thing in the world to be.

Presenter14:52

There was no

Presenter14:54

I I don't know, there was no evidence that I wasn't the only gay person in the world.

Presenter14:59

There was a sorrow to that, just a loneliness. Yeah, just feeling like you would be like one of those.

Presenter15:06

You would never make. And I'm sure if I had told my parents in high school, I would have had conversion therapy.

Presenter15:14

And nowadays that sounds really awful, but I could see it

Presenter15:18

With them thinking, okay, we got to help this kid. So, because we don't want him to have that life.

Presenter15:25

Did you ever tell your parents?

Presenter15:28

Yeah.

Presenter15:29

What happened?

Presenter15:31

My dad threw me out of the house. But I shouldn't have been in the house anyway. I mean, I dropped out of college and so I was back at their house and I was just kind of

Presenter15:42

just getting high every day and I just really needed a kick in the ass, so

Presenter15:48

You know, in retrospect, I could thank him for that.

Presenter15:52

I think it's time to go to some more music. Your fourth choice today, David Sederis. What's it going to be?

Presenter15:57

We used to go to the beach, rent a beach house on Emerald Isle, North Carolina for a week in the summer. And it was just always such a great time. Sometimes my dad wouldn't come, and then it was even better. There was always a beach song. It was just a song that was popular on the radio. We'd have a couple of radio stations going at the same time, and when the beach song came on, you'd just turn it up and everybody would gather around. And this was Until You Come Back to Me by Aretha Franklin.

Presenter16:26

I'd never been in love or I'd never been

Presenter16:29

In a relationship. So it's so funny to re-listen to these songs later.

Presenter16:35

And when you were young you wanted to identify and you could create a story in your mind, but you couldn't relate it to you personally. And music changes when you can, when you have the feeling, the exact feeling that the singer has, and you and that same longing and that same sense of despair.

Presenter16:54

When you really could connect with the song.

Presenter16:59

I wanna tell And maybe changes I'm going to rule.

Presenter17:05

Listen you, listen you.

Presenter17:09

Will you come back to me?

Presenter17:11

That's more ado.

Speaker 217:18

What is that?

Speaker 217:19

Please say

Speaker 217:21

You have to say

Speaker 217:23

Me free.

Presenter17:29

Aretha Franklin, and until you come back to me, that's what I'm gonna do. David Sederis, as you mentioned, you dropped out of studying art at university and you became a performance artist for a while. A key detail about this period is that you were also addicted to crystal methamphetamine. What effect did that have on you? I don't have any talent for art.

Presenter17:49

But then this was around the time, and I realized: wait a minute, you don't have to. You could just fill a

Presenter17:57

Wellington with styrofoam pellets and very slowly pour them into a champagne glass, right?

Presenter18:06

So but it was it was empty, empty performance art. But because of the math, right, I would write manifestos that just went on and on and on. I mean, I was into it. That didn't make it good. It just made me

Presenter18:20

insufferable.

Presenter18:22

At that time

Presenter18:24

There was one person in Raleigh who was selling crystal meth, and then she got strung out, so she moved to Florida, and there was no one to take her place. So that was how you dried out. That's how I dried out. But now there'd be a thousand people right behind her, more than willing to sell it to you. Do you ever think about that? What if what? I think about it all the time because.

David Sedaris18:34

And so

David Sedaris18:41

To salute.

David Sedaris18:43

But think about it all the time.

Presenter18:46

I was not strong enough to give it up. Because when you stop taking crystal meth, boy, you drop. You drop down to the basement. You know, you are so depressed. You can't

Presenter19:00

And it's not just depressed like sometimes it's a gloomy day out and you feel a little bit down.

David Sedaris19:04

You feel

Presenter19:05

You feel worthless, you feel there's no point in trying anything, you feel

Presenter19:11

A deep like all consuming numbing

Presenter19:17

Depression that renders you

Presenter19:20

Useless.

Presenter19:22

And I just had to power through it. And I never.

Presenter19:26

Did it again.

Presenter19:29

Despite the chaos and the itinerant nature of your life in that period, you have pretty consistently started keeping a diary. But you did once say, It's not lost on me that I'm so busy recording life I don't have time to really live it.

Presenter19:43

Do you think you've missed out on living a bit, really?

Presenter19:47

I get out.

Presenter19:49

But you know, I'm still a prisoner to my routine quite often, right? Like I'm going to go to India in a few weeks, and I've never been to India, but I'll spend a lot of time in India writing my diary.

David Sedaris19:52

Quite all.

Presenter20:00

about India instead of just

Presenter20:03

being out there every moment and then writing about it after I've left.

Presenter20:08

And how do you feel about that? On balance, that's a good thing, right? I don't have any choice. I'm compelled to write.

Presenter20:17

It's time for some more music, David. Your fifth choice. What are we going to hear next and why are you taking it to the island?

Presenter20:22

This is the Georgia Mass Choir singing I've Got a Right to Praise the Lord.

Presenter20:28

There was one black guy at our school, named Dwight Bunch.

Presenter20:32

And he ran for class president, and I was his campaign manager.

Presenter20:37

And we won with my brilliant slogan, We like Dwight a bunch.

Presenter20:42

And then his father died, and the school sent me to the funeral as a representative of the school. And I'd never been inside a black church. And I grew up at the Greek Orthodox Church, where

Presenter20:56

There were two cantors who would basically moan.

Presenter21:01

You know, and God and my angel and angels. It was awful. And then I went to this black church, and it was like, I couldn't believe how great the music was. I don't believe in God, but I think I maybe do when I'm listening to gospel music.

Presenter21:22

But that's me.

Presenter21:26

And he's kept me.

Presenter21:29

I got no right to praise.

Presenter21:36

The Lord has blessed me.

Presenter21:41

And it can be yet.

Presenter21:45

I got a watch. Oh yeah. Uh

Speaker 421:49

To pray tonight.

Presenter21:52

I've got a right to praise the Lord. The Georgia Mass Choir. David Sederis, in the 90s, you moved to New York and you took on what would eventually prove to be your breakthrough job. It was working as a Christmas elf at Macy's department store. Your elf name was Crumpet. Did you take the job to write about it? No, I took the job because I moved to New York and I don't have any skills. Like I never learned to drive a car and I just type with one finger. And I saw an ad in the paper and I thought, well, I'm short. And I got the job because I'm short.

Presenter22:27

It was the only time being short ever got me anything. But you did write about it, because the situations you found yourself in were just too good not to document. What was going on behind the scenes?

Presenter22:39

The photo elf took your picture. Yeah. Right. But somebody would put their

David Sedaris22:40

Yeah.

Presenter22:43

a kid on Santa's lap and then spray the kid's hair, and then the hairspray's going right into Santa's eyes.

Presenter22:49

It was just

Presenter22:51

It was remarkable. You did tell people that if they looked through a certain window they might see Sher.

David Sedaris22:53

Did tell

Presenter22:56

Well, we were supposed to say, Step on the magic star and look through the window and you can see Santa and you were supposed to say it like that. So I'd say, You can see Cher. I said if you stand here and you look that way, you can see Cher.

David Sedaris23:03

Hey, hey.

David Sedaris23:07

Here.

Presenter23:10

It was just more fun.

Presenter23:12

David, you've written so much about your own real life and your family and friends too. I wonder if you ever look back and regret anything that you've written. Yeah, I regret something I wrote. When I first moved to Paris, I took a French class.

Presenter23:28

My teacher was a real wildcat. She would throw chalk at people and get up in your face and mock you. And so I wrote about it, but I didn't write that we adored her, because I didn't know I guess I didn't know how. I thought, well, how does that make sense that someone treats you that way and you adore them?

Presenter23:48

And so I felt like it was my laziness and it hurt her feelings. And so I think about that all the time. Like I don't want my

Presenter23:58

laziness to be the cause.

Presenter24:02

David Sederas, it's time for your sixth disc. What's next?

Presenter24:06

When I first moved to Paris, uh C D's were still a thing, and I found this. It was a a jazz compilation and it had Manhattan.

Presenter24:16

By Blossom Guerion

Presenter24:19

It made me so homesick for New York. But when you listen to the song, it's like Tell me what street compares to Mott Street in July. Like Mott Street in July would be awful.

Presenter24:31

It's very fancy on old Delancey Street, you know. Delancey Street's not fancy at all. And then I thought, is this a joke? But then I thought, no,'cause when you're young and you move to New York, it's that's it. This is New York through the eyes of a young person who just moved there.

Presenter24:50

I just would play this song and just sob. I would just miss New York so much. It's very fancy.

Presenter24:58

I know

Speaker 224:59

Yeah.

Presenter24:59

The Lancy Street, you know.

Speaker 225:09

The subway charms us so

Speaker 225:18

When balmy breezes blow

Speaker 225:25

To and fro.

Speaker 225:31

And tell me what street?

Speaker 225:36

Compares with moths

Presenter25:37

Street

Presenter25:47

Sweet push cards gently

Presenter25:54

Blossom Deary and Manhattan. David Sederis, in twenty thirteen your youngest sister, Tiffany, took her own life. She'd been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and you wrote a story after her death called Now We Are Five. It's a very moving piece to read that. Was it difficult to write?

Presenter26:13

No.

Presenter26:14

The thing is, it was inevitable.

Presenter26:16

It was almost something that you had already written.

Presenter26:20

All you needed were the particulars, you know, of like the method of suicide and the time of year.

Presenter26:26

You know, it's it's so interesting to me. I wrote about it and then I've gotten so many letters from people who have

Presenter26:34

lost a member of their family. And everyone assumes that we are plagued by guilt.

Presenter26:40

And I haven't met anybody who feels guilty. It's always the same. Like the tragedy wasn't my sister's suicide. It was her mental illness.

Presenter26:51

And

Presenter26:52

She left behind uh some notebooks.

Presenter26:56

And reading the note books you think, Wow, if that was the inside of my mind

Presenter27:03

We'd been estranged for a while when she died.

Presenter27:06

Again, that's something that you don't hear people talking about, that necessary estrangement sometimes from someone whose behaviour is just too difficult to cope with. You can't put yourself through it anymore. I mean, about Tiffany, you wrote, one day she'd throw a dish at you, the next she'd create a mosaic out of the shards.

Presenter27:22

She could really just say something to you that would just destroy you, reach inside your soul.

Presenter27:29

and find your weak spot and

Presenter27:33

She couldn't listen to people and then she became

Presenter27:39

combative and became super contradictory and

David Sedaris27:40

Yeah.

Presenter27:44

The last time I saw my sister I was on tour.

Presenter27:47

And she came to the theater.

Presenter27:51

and came to the stage door, and I was like, Whatever you're gonna throw at me right now.

Presenter27:57

I can't right now. I can't carry that right now. You said you think about her every day. I do.

Presenter28:04

Every single day.

Presenter28:06

She was a dynamic person. And there were times in my life, like when I moved to Chicago and Tiffany came to visit me there, I had that feeling with her, like, yeah, come and gather around. This is my sister. You know, just so proud of her, just so

Presenter28:21

She's so beautiful and so funny and so vibrant and then everything.

Presenter28:33

Everything fell apart.

Presenter28:37

Let's take a break for some more music. It's your penultimate disc, David Sederis, number seven. What are we going to hear next and why?

Presenter28:44

This is Abby Lincoln, and I think a lot of people would listen to this and say, wait a minute, she can't sing.

Presenter28:52

But I think she's so good at interpreting songs

Presenter28:56

And the flatness of her voice I think should give hope to anybody and they would think, you know what? I could do this too.

Presenter29:04

This is her singing You and I, and it was the first person who made me think, wow, Stevie Wonder songs really work as jazz numbers.

Speaker 429:13

Yeah.

David Sedaris29:13

Here we are.

David Sedaris29:18

On Earth together, it's you and I.

Speaker 429:26

God has made us fall in love.

Speaker 429:32

It's true. Uh

David Sedaris29:36

I've really found someone like you.

Presenter29:43

Abby Lincoln and you and I. David Sederis, you've been with your boyfriend Hugh for over 30 years. He's famous in his own right among your fans. And you refer to him sometimes as Congressman Prude. Why is that? He's the biggest prude. Like, you know, like most men, if you sneak up at them on the computer, they're looking at porn. He's looking at real estate. Always. I don't think he's ever looked at pornography ever in his life. And if you say, what the hell is going on? Do you have to use that language?

Presenter30:16

The two of you divide your time between New York and West Sussex, where you you have a penchant for collecting litter. It's obviously a very worthwhile task for the community and the environment, but I wonder if your litter picking experience has given you an insight to the national character or altered your perspective on Brits.

Presenter30:37

It's never the people you think are going to litter who litter.

Presenter30:42

And I've followed people before, and I've thought that person's going to throw that down. And they never do.

Presenter30:48

I was picking up trash this summer.

Presenter30:51

And there's this guy. He's like fifty years old. He has his shirt off.

Presenter30:56

And he's covered with tattoos, and he's in a white van.

Presenter31:00

And he says, Oh, picking up rubbish and I thought, Yeah, you're rubbish.

Presenter31:05

He said I do the same thing where I live. And then he showed me pictures of his litter picking group in a road sign saved on, and we were talking for an hour. And he's remarkable the work that this guy has done. Remarkable.

Presenter31:20

So David Sederis, the time is almost upon us. It's it's almost time to send you to the island. Obviously you're going to keep it tidy. I wonder what else is is in your future there. How do you picture life on the desert island?

Presenter31:32

Well, the hard thing is I don't relax. I'm never not doing.

Presenter31:37

something. So that's going to be hard for me.

Presenter31:42

Well, we're going to give you one more track before we send you there, David Sederis. Your final choice today. What is it and why are you taking it with you?

Presenter31:49

When you and I

Presenter31:52

Started to see each other and I went over to his loft and he was playing this album by Johnny Hart and John Coltrane. The track They Say It's Wonderful was playing. And I just remember being so in love with him and it's like your heart was a C D and somebody put it on. That's the way I felt.

David Sedaris32:19

I only know they tell me that no.

Presenter32:27

Squadron

David Sedaris32:31

Uh

Presenter32:35

If the

David Sedaris32:36

Uh As a moon. About

David Sedaris32:42

It's wonderful, wonderful.

David Sedaris32:50

In every way So they say

Presenter33:13

Johnny Hartman and John Coltrane. They say it's wonderful. So, David Sederis, it is time I'm going to send you away to the island. I'm giving you the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and one other book of your choice. What would you like?

Presenter33:26

Well, I've given it a lot of thought, and I would like to take a big fat German dictionary because I'm trying to learn German.

Presenter33:36

And, you know, I was starting to think you could just look around you and narrate everything in German, but it would just be sky, water, tree, sand.

Presenter33:46

Ship, ship.

Presenter33:50

But maybe it would bring a new perspective too, if you were seeing it and describing it in another language. Well, that's yours. It does sound like you'd be working very hard doing that though, so I hope your luxury item is going to be for pleasure and sensory stimulation. No.

Presenter34:04

No. I mean, what I would normally like is like an unlimited supply of

Presenter34:09

Paper.

Presenter34:11

and pencil, but if that's too much to ask, and if my pencil could have an eraser I don't know, I just want to get work done while I'm there.

Presenter34:18

And finally, which one track of the eight that you shared with us today would you save from the waves if you had to? You and I by Abby Lincoln.

Presenter34:26

It gives me both Abby Lincoln and Stevie Wonder.

Presenter34:31

David Sederas, thank you very much for letting us hear your desert island discs. Oh, it was an honor.

Presenter34:55

Hello, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with David, and I'm quite sure his German vocab will come on in leaps and bounds on the island. We've cast away many non-fiction writers, including Michael Lewis, Helen MacDonald, and Robert McFarlane. You can find their episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and through BBC Sounds. The studio manager for today's programme was Sarah Hockley, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, and the producer was Paula McGinley. Next time, my guest will be the costume designer Jenny Bevan. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 435:41

I'm Paris Lees. Welcome to the Flipside from BBC Radio 4.

Speaker 435:48

In each episode, I'll tell two stories from opposite sides of the coin, and use science to ask questions about elements of the human experience that we sometimes take for granted.

Speaker 236:01

So I'm not sure.

Speaker 236:03

Turns out that this person that I subled my apartment to, he was, you know, a scammer.

David Sedaris36:09

I feel like now I am the person that I was when I was on the internet at 13.

Speaker 436:14

It's lies and it's covered with lipstick and glitter.

Speaker 436:19

Subscribe to the flip side with me, Paris Lees, on BBC Sounds.