Professor Nick Webborn

Speaker 30:01

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Presenter0:46

Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. And, for rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter1:24

My castaway this week is the chair of the British Paralympic Association and Professor of Sports and Exercise Medicine, Nick Webbone. A lifelong lover of sports, he's one of the world's leading experts in Paralympic sports medicine, the most widely published author on the subject, and has attended 11 Paralympic and one Olympic Games. His many achievements include pioneering research that has made Paralympic sports safer for athletes and driving the evolution of sports medicine in areas including rehabilitation and support. He describes his own experience of rehabilitation as long and torturous. He was 24 and a newly qualified doctor when a spinal injury incurred during a rugby match altered the course of his life. He says, Would I change anything? Who knows what would have happened. But life goes on, and one can choose to face one's challenge or not. Professor Nick Webb, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Professor Nick Webborn2:19

Oh, thank you, Lauren. It's such a privilege to be here.

Presenter2:22

Well, you're relatively fresh from Tokyo. Last year you were there with Paralympics G B, Nick finishing second in the medal table behind China. Hundred and twenty four medals overall, forty one gold, thirty eight silver, forty five bronze. You must have so many personal highlights. Can you share a few of them with us?

Professor Nick Webborn2:41

I think one of the things I'm most proud of is that we achieved more medals across more sports than any other nation has ever done in Paralympic history.

Presenter2:48

And what does that tell us about our capabilities as a sporting nation?

Professor Nick Webborn2:52

Well, it's the breadth of our expertise as well as the depth of it. People in Great Britain have invested in this movement, you know, for a long time now, and that gives us a head start, if you like. But they've really taken it to their hearts with London 2012 and things like that, where they've really got behind us. And so we really feel that whenever we travel and perform as a team, we know that we've got the nation now watching us and supporting us. And the athletes really feel that, and that's a wonderful thing to have.

Presenter3:19

And over the years you've been involved with the Paralympic sport. You've really helped change the support available to athletes. What kind of issues do Paralympic athletes face when it comes to competing?

Professor Nick Webborn3:30

It started when I supposed I was doing a sports resident diploma at the London Hospital.

Professor Nick Webborn3:35

And learning about the sort of support services Olympic athletes had. And I think, well, why don't Paralympic athletes get this same degree of support? And then thinking about.

Professor Nick Webborn3:44

What are the additional problems that they have in terms of, for example, thermoregulation?

Professor Nick Webborn3:48

If you have a spinal cord injury and you don't feel the heat, you will suffer worse as a consequence. So we had to look at how we would mitigate for that for Tokyo, for Atlanta, for different Games, thinking about the underlying conditions that people have that predispose them to certain illnesses or problems during competition that Olympic athletes don't face. So how do we mitigate for that?

Speaker 13:52

Ooh boy.

Presenter4:11

Removed.

Presenter4:13

You're sharing your music with us today, of course, Nick. Time to hear your first disc. What's it going to be and why have you selected it?

Professor Nick Webborn4:20

This is David Bowie's Heroes and this is the music that was played as we walked into the opening ceremony in London 2012. And I was appointed the Chief Medical Officer for the British team. And so coming into that stadium.

Professor Nick Webborn4:36

with this sound of heroes and the crowd just going completely nuts.

Professor Nick Webborn4:42

And if you ever see the footage, right at the very back, there's me and my chief nurse, Austin Thomas, who has been a colleague over these years. And we were there right at the back with our medical bags. But every time I hear that track, I immediately get taken back to the opening ceremony of Paralympic Games, London 2012, and how the British people received us.

Professor Nick Webborn5:17

Behold the Queen!

Presenter5:37

Heroes by David Bowie. Professor Nick Webborn, it's great watching the British Paralympic team winning medals, but it's not just about the sport, of course, it's also about the story behind it. I wonder when it comes to the Paralympic movement, what that story is about for you. Is it about attitudes towards disability, about our ideas of what's possible, the limits that we place on ourselves?

Professor Nick Webborn6:01

Yes, that's complex. I mean if you think back to 1948 when Ludwig Gutmann started the first Stoke Manderville Games, you know the opening ceremony of the London Olympics in 1948, having an archery competition for 16 men and women, which is great, there were women competing then too, an archery competition on the lawns of Stoke Manderville. And then he kind of started something there because he felt that sport could play a really useful purpose in reintegrating people with spinal cord injury back into society.

Presenter6:31

largely been veterans back then, right?

Professor Nick Webborn6:33

Yes, but then the movement grew, and from 1960, it was still people just with spinal cord injury, but it had the games in Rome, increasing number of nations, about 400 athletes then. But it's grown over time and it's included different types of impairment. So, people with limb deficiency, people with visual impairment, people with complex neurological disorders, cerebral palsy, and so on. It's become this broader, more inclusive games, which has allowed people with disabilities to participate in sport to show that if you give people

Professor Nick Webborn7:04

an equal opportunity. They can excel. And the Paralympics is one element of society sport, but I think that's the same for anything. We just needed people to give people equal opportunity and give them a platform to be able to show what they can do.

Presenter7:19

It's time for your second choice today, Nick. What have you gone for?

Professor Nick Webborn7:22

I've gone for the Hallelujah Chorus and this, apart from being a wonderful piece of music, is something my dad would play. When we got back from midnight mass on Christmas Eve or Easter time, Dad would come back, he would get the record player, he'd put on the Hallelujah Chorus. He would get out a tray, there'd be the goblets with some champagne in and we were even allowed to sit when we were younger. And it just brings me back to family and my father and being together at Christmas and Easter, which was so important to us at family.

Professor Nick Webborn8:15

All the Lord, mivers, and rain.

Presenter9:01

The Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah, performed by the London Muzici Chamber Choir and the London Muzici Orchestra, conducted by Mark Stevenson.

Presenter9:12

Professor Nick Webbone, let's hear about your family. You were born in Swansea in nineteen fifty six and were the fourth of six children to Hayden and Terzy Webborn. Sounds like quite a lively household then. How do you remember it?

Professor Nick Webborn9:25

It was a very lively household.

Presenter9:27

Especially with that going on and your dad conducting after midnight mass.

Professor Nick Webborn9:29

After midnight.

Professor Nick Webborn9:30

My dad was an only child, so I think he thought, right, I've got these six children and he fully participated in family from everything we did. You know, he'd come out and play football with his cricket. He would get us out to the beach on walks, country walks, boating, catching mackerel.

Presenter9:47

So active, lots of sports, yeah, lots of activities. I think your parents had met at medical school, but neither of them qualified as doctors. What happened?

Professor Nick Webborn9:48

Yeah, lots of activity.

Professor Nick Webborn9:55

Yes, that's right. They were at King's and my dad failed his first MB examination and was uh not asked to continue his studies, we say.

Presenter10:05

Is what we say.

Professor Nick Webborn10:07

And my mum left to marry him. I don't think they regretted it, to be honest. I think they were very glad when I decided on medicine as a career.

Professor Nick Webborn10:15

But there was no expectation and it wasn't talked about.

Presenter10:17

So what did your dad end up doing? Was your mum at home looking after you guys? And what about your dad?

Professor Nick Webborn10:22

My dad ended up in a very weird thing called non-destructive testing, which is essentially looking examining welds to ensure that they're intact and not deteriorating on things like pipelines and oil rigs and aircraft. And on the back of that, he was a massive aircraft fanatic. And we were dragged off to air shows all over the place, and he was making models. But as part of this excuse for his work, he bought a Hawkers Seahawk and had that installed at his work so his people could check the welds on that. But I think it was just his private hobby of the joy of ownership of this beautiful aeroplane.

Presenter10:58

So he actually had his own aeroplane.

Presenter11:02

It's time for your third disc, Nick. Tell us what you've chosen.

Professor Nick Webborn11:05

This is Jamaica Farewell by Nina and Frederick. We had these records at home. We used to sing Jamaica Farewell in our class singing lessons. And then later on I went to prep school at a place called Lenarth Court and there was a boy there called Jerry Atek who was family was in Jamaica and of course he couldn't go home at half-term or you know holidays and so Jerry we kind of adopted him and he would come home and be part of our family.

Professor Nick Webborn11:34

And then

Professor Nick Webborn11:35

On one occasion his parents said, Would I like to go and spend the su a summer holiday with them in Jamaica?

Presenter11:40

Oh, wow.

Professor Nick Webborn11:41

And this was amazing for me as this, you know.

Professor Nick Webborn11:43

I think I was probably about 10-11 at the time to travel alone. I remember I had this little BOAC young person traveling alone badge that was stuck to me at the airport. I've learned a lot more about acclimatisation than preparing for going to the heat now in my work, but nothing would prepare me for that. A fresh mango from a tree and things like that were just extraordinary then.

Speaker 112:07

Down the way where the nights are gay, And the sun shines daily on the mountain top.

Professor Nick Webborn12:14

Yeah.

Professor Nick Webborn12:15

I took control. On a sailing ship and when I reached Jamaica I made a stop but I'm sad to say I'm on my way

Professor Nick Webborn12:26

Won't be back for many a day.

Professor Nick Webborn12:29

Me heart is down, me head is turning around I had to leave our little girl in Kingston town

Presenter12:36

JAMAICA FAREWELL BY NINA AND FREDERICK. Professor Nick Webborn, after you finished school you left Wales and you went on to study medicine at the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel.

Professor Nick Webborn12:47

I think it was a great place to learn medicine. The London Hospital is is unrecognisable now from what it was then. The Good Samaritan Pub was a place that we used to gather together after rugby matches and sing songs and uh sometimes get ejected for being too loud.

Presenter13:04

You're doing well if you get ejected from a pub in the East End at that point.

Professor Nick Webborn13:07

Enough for

Presenter13:10

So you did your training at the Royal London Hospital, and after you completed that, you went to the RAF as a junior medical officer. So you were assigned to Phantom Squadron as their squadron doctor, which sounds very exciting. And you must have been living your dad's dream.

Professor Nick Webborn13:25

It was my dad's but also mine. You know, I'd grown up to love aircraft and I was at the squadron doctor for 56th Squadron at RAF Wattisham and it was at the time of the Cold War and there'd be crews on quick reaction alert waiting to jump in and intercept Russian spy planes. There was a lot of risk and hard work and you enjoyed your downtime as well.

Presenter13:49

Let's hear your fourth disc today, Nick. What's it gonna be?

Professor Nick Webborn13:52

Will You Go, Lassie Go by The Corries. And when I was at medical school, as well as singing songs with the rugby team, they were also introduced to folk songs like Will You Go Lassigo and The Dubliners and there were these great voices who would lead this singing and I found the joy of singing as a group of people together and this version I've chosen is a live version because I think if I'm stuck on an island it might be quite nice to hear

Professor Nick Webborn14:20

The crowd coming in together and everybody singing and just expressing the joy of singing in unison.

Speaker 114:28

We'll have one more.

Speaker 114:33

And we'll all go together.

Speaker 114:40

The Bully Mountain Day.

Speaker 114:46

Caller of the

Presenter14:53

There you go, that's it.

Presenter15:01

The Curries and Will you go, Lassie Go. Professor Nick Webb, your career was going well and you were playing rugby for the RAF too, but life changed for you in february, nineteen eighty one, when you were playing scrum half and you were on the receiving end of a very nasty tackle. What do you remember about that day?

Professor Nick Webborn15:21

It was a cold wintry day. I'd recently come back from my skiing holiday with all my London hospital pals, returned back to the station and I was asked would you play in this match? And the ball was tapped back from the line out and as I went to retrieve it, one of the opposition players kind of hit me early before I got to the ball and drove my head into the ground so my neck flexed onto the ground. I heard this massive crack and this electric shock sensation went down my arms and legs and I just lay on the ground and I said, don't move me, don't move me, just get the other doctor. And my colleague, Dr. Mike Bracebridge, came out and he put a collar on and they transferred me to the local hospital.

Professor Nick Webborn16:14

And

Presenter16:16

You were a trained doctor yourself. How serious did you think it was initially?

Professor Nick Webborn16:20

I knew from that that feeling in my body that it was serious. It was, yeah.

Professor Nick Webborn16:27

you know when when something like that happens, um

Presenter16:30

Good.

Presenter16:31

The first operation that you'd had to relocate your vertebrae, as I understand it, had had gone wrong, and I know that you later found out that consultant hadn't performed the operation before.

Presenter16:42

Looking back, do you think things could have gone differently with a different surgeon?

Professor Nick Webborn16:47

Yeah, certainly if perhaps I'd just been put on traction and and and and allowed for the you know a different approach. But you know, I can't look back, I can't change it. You know, at Adden Brooks they they took me straight to the operating theatre, they did an open reduction and then I I woke up on this thing called a striker frame, which is a thing for turning you over to avoid pressure sores, but it's like a bit like an ironing board and you get flipped from one way to the other.

Presenter17:14

You must have A, just been in shock, obviously been physically in in in pain and uncomfortable. Do you remember your your thoughts at the time and how you're feeling?

Professor Nick Webborn17:24

For me, I'm blessed with this large and loving family, and to have that, you know, the people flocked and kind of came to support me. And it was distressing for them as much as for me, really. And it was after about 10 days that they found there was a bed at Stoke Mandeville that they were going to transfer me to the spinal injuries unit there. And the consultant at the time thought, you know, if you haven't had any recovery by now, that's it. You'll, you know, you won't make any. I remember saying to my mum that I was scared.

Presenter17:31

Yeah.

Professor Nick Webborn18:00

I don't think she knew how to help me.

Presenter18:02

Uh

Professor Nick Webborn18:03

So it was probably as difficult for her as it was for me.

Presenter18:07

As you say, Nick, you were transferred to the National Spinal Injuries Unit at Stoke Manderville, and that was the beginning of what would be a very long rehabilitation process. So I think you had to be flat on your back for the first three months. I mean, for someone who was used to such an action-packed life, that in itself must have been devastating. How did you cope, and how long did it take you to adjust to what was happening?

Professor Nick Webborn18:34

Stoke Manderville is extraordinary that I mean when I was there it was still in the huts that were there from 1948 but it was good in a way that you you came in there was a long ward and when you were a new admission you came in at one end and then gradually over time you kind of worked your way down the ward. So there are constantly people passing the end of your bed who were at a different phase of their recovery who would stop and chat to you and you would understand a bit more about the process from their perspective rather than the medic's perspective.

Presenter18:41

No.

Speaker 118:41

With

Presenter18:41

BAH

Speaker 118:41

But

Professor Nick Webborn19:08

Hmm.

Speaker 119:08

Uh

Professor Nick Webborn19:10

At six weeks I got a little flicker in my right thumb just flexed and I showed the consultant on the wardrobe and said, Look, I can flex my thumb.

Professor Nick Webborn19:20

And he said, Well, if you can't extend it, it's not much use to you.

Professor Nick Webborn19:26

And I thought, okay. My dad wrote in the diary, you know, the fight back starts today. And I think it was partly, I don't know whether he meant that to stimulate me or whether it was just, but one of the things I did learn during my time lying there was how I would speak to patients in the future if I got back to working. Because this kind of group of medics would pass the end of the bed, have this discussion about the person in the bed and then move on and perhaps say the odd word to you. And I just felt this is not the way we treat people. This is not how you engage with people. So I learnt so much from being on the receiving end of being a patient.

Speaker 119:34

Mm

Professor Nick Webborn20:06

that changed the way that I practice medicine now.

Presenter20:10

You spent nine months at Stoke Mandeville, Nick, then went on to Headley Court. Now I quoted you at the beginning of the programme describing rehab as long and tortuous. What gave you hope during that time?

Professor Nick Webborn20:22

Um

Professor Nick Webborn20:24

I think the spirit of the people, the staff there, are just so amazing at embracing you and understanding that and seeing people

Professor Nick Webborn20:35

who were previous patients from years past coming back for their outpatient appointments who would come and talk to you as well. You can understand there was a life outside because you you become almost institutionalized after nine months in a hospital.

Professor Nick Webborn20:50

And you need to learn that there's a life outside as well.

Presenter20:54

And did you feel like that was possible for you? I mean, you were just a young lad yourself, you're only twenty four.

Professor Nick Webborn20:59

Yes. Um

Professor Nick Webborn21:03

I don't know where the faith came from, but I had a faith that I would

Professor Nick Webborn21:07

You know, be okay. Yeah. I think when you have these.

Presenter21:09

Yeah.

Speaker 121:09

Uh

Professor Nick Webborn21:13

catastrophic events in life, you have to make a conscious decision. Are you going to face this on and make the best of it? Or are you going to let it sink you? And and for me it was, no, I'm going to do the best that I can with this.

Presenter21:24

Let's have some more music, Nick. Disc number five.

Professor Nick Webborn21:27

We're going to hear meatloaf and at night time I would get them to put on some headphones for me and some music to listen to, and I have the Bat Out of Hell album on.

Professor Nick Webborn21:37

But it got to this track which is for crying out loud and I would just usually you know turn me to tears at that point. But the reason I'm taking this track is because I know that despite how low things are, there's always hope, there's always tomorrow. The sun is going to shine again. You can move on and so I hope on the island it will remind me wherever tough it is then.

Professor Nick Webborn22:00

You can move on and there is another tomorrow.

Professor Nick Webborn22:25

Uh

Presenter22:33

For crying out loud, meatloaf.

Presenter22:36

So Professor Nick Webbone, you had to rethink your career after your accident. What had your plan been and how did you find another path?

Professor Nick Webborn22:45

My instinct had always been that I wanted to do surgery. I loved doing things with my hands, model making or whatever, and fine dexterous movements and so on. But it was clear that that wasn't going to be an option. Either my standing tolerance or my hand and dexterity would not be good enough for that. And so I went into primary care and I f a practice in Eastbourne.

Speaker 122:57

Hmm.

Professor Nick Webborn23:12

took me on on a part-time basis. I made more than 120 applications for GP posts before I found this part-time position. So I think obviously it had an impact on how people perceived my capability. But I felt that there was this experience I'd had of the rehabilitation process and maybe sports medicine is the way for me.

Presenter23:38

So you're starting to think about it while working part-time as a GP.

Professor Nick Webborn23:42

Yes, started doing some courses and there's a course at the Royal London Hospital, it was the first diploma in sports medicine in the country and I spent a year there and it was just the most amazing eye-opening course. And we would go to the British Olympic Medical Centre and to see what was happening there and that gave me that inspiration to think, well how can we bring that to para-athletes? Why are they not getting this?

Presenter24:07

Yes, and this idea that you could make a change. So sporting injuries and disability very much neglected areas at that point.

Professor Nick Webborn24:14

Yes, back in 92 there were nine articles in the whole literature. I was asked to join the British Paralympic Association medical team then and so I then immediately started working on right we've got Atlanta coming up, heat's going to be the problem. It just took over my life, you know, and I then worked with the swim team for five years, travelling the world with our British swim team up until the Sydney Games and it just fascinated me.

Presenter24:39

It's time for your next disc, Nick, number six, What Are We Gonna Hear and Why?

Professor Nick Webborn24:44

This is from The Greatest Showman and this is an amazing film but the music is just so inspiring. There are a number of tracks I could have chosen from this and I've ended up with This Is Me by Keala Settle and it's such a powerful song and really it's about accepting who you are and saying to the world

Professor Nick Webborn25:06

Look, this is me just to take me for who I am.

Professor Nick Webborn25:09

It's a great anthem not just for disabled people, for any people who feel discriminated against. And I think it's also quite powerful for me 40 years after my injury to finally accept, like, this is who I am, and this is, you know, you have to take me or leave me, but this is me.

Professor Nick Webborn25:27

Shop is

Speaker 125:28

Birds wanna c

Professor Nick Webborn25:28

Ha!

Speaker 125:28

Write me down.

Speaker 125:32

I'm gonna send the blood gonna drown in my

Speaker 125:36

I am brave, I am bruised, I am who I'm meant to be. This is me, so y'all cause here I cut on

Speaker 125:47

Marching on to the beat I drum

Speaker 125:51

I'm not scared to be seen. I make no apologies. This is me.

Presenter25:59

This is me, Keala Settle, from the soundtrack to the film The Greatest Showman. Professor Nick Webborn, you set up your clinic, sportwise, in nineteen ninety seven, and it specializes in the treatment of injuries from grassroots to elite level. What are the most dangerous sports in terms of injuries received?

Professor Nick Webborn26:18

I mean rugby has to be up there and I think we know from the recent work on concussion that it is a major risk. I mean it's not something that I'm seeing every day in my clinical setting but I think that that is certainly we're all concerned now about head injury in sport.

Presenter26:33

There's also the question of how you make a sport safe for athletes while also keeping it competitive and also allowing those athletes to push themselves as far as they possibly can because obviously they want to do that.

Professor Nick Webborn26:45

Yes, that is always the balance, isn't it? And so many of the evolutions in Paralympic sport have come through athletes pushing the boundaries. They're always wanting to design the chair to be faster, better, and without necessarily understanding the injury risk element associated with certain changes.

Presenter27:05

Mm-hmm. And and their attitude to risk must differ from person to person.

Professor Nick Webborn27:10

If you've had, for example, cancer and had your leg removed, you may not be so concerned about a little bang on the head as they call it. You know, I had a little ding on the head, what does that matter? I've had cancer or I've got a spinal cord injury, I've got this. So, so their attitude to risk and also to medical care, sometimes they haven't had great experience of their medical care, and so their interaction with physicians may be different. And so, we have a lot to do in terms of education about the importance of taking seriously concussion.

Presenter27:42

Can I ask Nick about your own attitude to using your wheelchair in everyday life? Because I I know that you resisted doing that for a while. I wonder how you made peace with that and how you feel about it now?

Professor Nick Webborn27:54

Yes, because I think in the early stages because I was making some recovery and getting back to doing a little bit of walking, you were seeing it as this goal of

Professor Nick Webborn28:03

getting rid of you know not needing the chair and succeeding and so on but actually what I found was that it was actually a trip to Disneyland Paris with the children that that converted me that we hired a chair and I could get around all of it suddenly and participate in all these things but I could have walked possibly the end of Main Street and I'd have been done in my back would have been hurting I would have it would so it totally transformed what I could do in life and so that was a real way of accepting having to use the chair long term and for me now it is a way of life the issues around it in terms of accessibility you know we're still not great on accessibility to all buildings to transportation

Professor Nick Webborn28:45

We've still got a long way to go in terms of that, but for me, it means I can get to places I couldn't get to otherwise, which is just so important.

Presenter28:53

It's time for your next track, your seventh disc today. What are we going to hear and why are you taking it with you to the island?

Professor Nick Webborn28:59

This is the brilliant Neil Diamond and Sweet Caroline, and this has so many different connections for me. Other than being a wonderful song and my wife and I love Neil Diamond, we saw him in his fifty year anniversary world tour at the O Two and that was just brilliant.

Professor Nick Webborn29:16

But this particular song, I sang it at an open mic session in an Irish bar in Andorra when I was learning to sit ski with a group from the RFU Injured Players Foundation. We'd gone together to learn how to ski.

Professor Nick Webborn29:31

And this is the song I chose to sing in the bar.

Professor Nick Webborn29:39

Touch in hand.

Professor Nick Webborn29:43

Reach it out.

Professor Nick Webborn29:46

Touching me

Professor Nick Webborn29:48

Touching you, sweet Elizabeth.

Professor Nick Webborn29:58

The times never seem so good.

Presenter30:05

Sweet Caroline Neil Diamond

Presenter30:08

So looking to the future, Nick, you're in post now as chair of the British Paralympic Association, and of course, the twenty twenty four Paris Olympics is coming up. You've been involved with Paralympic sports since the Atlanta Games in nineteen ninety six. How much has the movement changed over those years?

Professor Nick Webborn30:25

Oh, it's it's changed immeasurably.

Professor Nick Webborn30:28

After the Atlanta Games there was a one hour programme on the BBC with some highlights collated. Now we've got this live streaming of all the sports, you know, it's just completely changed. The coverage, the respect from people, the way it's a global movement for disability that's impacting on people's lives. Someone like Johnny Peacock who lost his leg.

Professor Nick Webborn30:56

It's changed his world.

Professor Nick Webborn30:58

But now he's changing the world for everyone.

Professor Nick Webborn31:02

And that's the amazing thing about this movement.

Presenter31:05

Yeah, you're getting emotional thinking about that, reflecting on it. I can understand.

Presenter31:09

Nick, I quoted you at the beginning of the programme reflecting forty years on on whether you would change the decision to make that tackle that led to your injury. You've clearly given it a great deal of thought. What conclusion did you come to, I wonder?

Professor Nick Webborn31:25

Yes, I I have reflected back on all the things that have happened since then that I don't think I would change anything really. I think it has shaped me to be a better person, to be a better doctor. I think despite the pain, the suffering, the ongoing issues with

Professor Nick Webborn31:43

the bowel, bladder function, all the different things that go with spinal cord injury.

Professor Nick Webborn31:48

the people that I've met, the family, the community that I'm in now, I don't think I would want to change at all.

Presenter31:54

It's almost time to cast you away, Nick. I know you're obviously a very sociable person, a team player too. Of course, on your desert island, you're going to be completely alone. How will you cope? How are you in your own company?

Professor Nick Webborn32:07

Well it's funny that I've often said to my wife, My so retirement would be in a sunny place with a little boat and I'd go out and I'd put my lobster pot out and then go and have a look the next day and is there anything in it and come back. So I'm going to have ample opportunity for that now.

Presenter32:21

Exactly. Yeah, so you've got to put your money where your mouth is.

Professor Nick Webborn32:24

Yeah.

Presenter32:24

Yes. Alright, well, one more disc before you go. What's it going to be?

Professor Nick Webborn32:29

This is You'll Never Walk Alone by Jerry and the Pacemakers, which I suppose ironically was at one point was You'll Never Walk Again, as I was being told. But I've been football mad, sports mad, but particularly football mad since I was a young child. And as a young boy in Swansea, I supported Swansea Town as they were then before they became Swansea City.

Professor Nick Webborn32:51

And as kids, we'd always be kicking balls and whatever. We'd always choose one of the top teams. And then I've followed Liverpool since that time, and I've been to Anfield. And when you hear.

Professor Nick Webborn33:01

This song, you know, there's such passion and emotion that goes with it, but I also think it's an amazing lesson in life. Although your dreams be tossed and blown.

Professor Nick Webborn33:11

Walk on with hope in your hearts and you'll never walk alone. I think that's a real lesson for us all that with the people around you you're never alone and life goes on.

Speaker 133:28

Wait.

Professor Nick Webborn33:31

And y'all

Presenter33:53

You'll never walk alone, Jerry and the Pacemakers. So, Professor Nick Webhorn, it's time to cast you away. You will, of course, get the books to keep you company, the Bible, the complete works of Shakespeare, and another book of your choice. What will you go for?

Professor Nick Webborn34:07

I'd like the uh works of Charles Dickens, if I may.

Presenter34:12

Oh, the complete works Does such a text exist? It would be rather large.

Professor Nick Webborn34:13

Yeah.

Professor Nick Webborn34:16

It will be a big one. I think that we've all been exposed to Dickens through T V and film and so on, but actually you need to get into the text to see the quality of his writing. But I want to have the time to really explore that and get into it, and I think this would be a great opportunity.

Presenter34:31

Well, we will give you the chunkiest Dickens collection that we can possibly get for you to keep you going. How does that sound?

Professor Nick Webborn34:37

That sounds fine, thank you.

Presenter34:40

You can also have a luxury nick to make life more bearable. What will you choose?

Professor Nick Webborn34:45

What I would like may not be a luxury. I have an adapted segue which allows me to go on the sand and the uh here also I I love walking on uh downs and on the beach and so on and this kind of adapted segue allows me to do that. But if possible a small little espresso machine on the back to have my coffee.

Presenter35:04

I'll whack a solar panel on there for you as well. Why not? I need a solar panel. Brilliant. You're on. It's yours.

Professor Nick Webborn35:06

I need the sound panel.

Presenter35:10

And finally, Nick, what's the one disk that you would save from the waves above all the rest if you had to?

Professor Nick Webborn35:16

That's such a hard thing to do, but I think it's probably gonna have to be This Is Me because This Is Me and also it'll lift my spirit when I'm there.

Presenter35:26

Professor Nick Webborn, thank you very much indeed for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Professor Nick Webborn35:31

Thank you, that was brilliant. Really enjoyed that.

Presenter35:47

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Nick, and I hope he's happy pottering on his island with his coffee. If you want to hear more Desert Island discs, there are more than 2,000 programmes to choose from in our archive. They include the Paralympians Baroness Gray Thompson and Adé Adepitan. You can find them if you search through BBC Sounds or on our programme website. The studio manager for today's programme was Duncan Hannant, the assistant producer was Christine Pavlovsky, and the producer was Sarah Taylor. Next time, my guest will be the dancer Oti Mabusi. I do hope you'll join us then.

Speaker 136:32

Hi, I'm Russell Kane and I want to tell you about my podcast, BBC Radio 4's Evil Genius. You can find it on BBC Sounds. Although, I don't know whether you should or not. It's one of the most confusing, exciting, surprising, infuriating, wonderful, enlightening listens you can have. Why? Because we take people from history you thought you had the facts about and let off fact bombs around them. If you think you know everything about Prince, Elizabeth I, Freud, Frida Carlo, Alan Ginsburg, you don't. If you want to hear uncomfortable comedians squirming in their seats when they're forced to make a vote one way or the other, evil or genius, because that's what this show is about, cancel or keep, then hit subscribe straight away. However, if you find it might be triggering and you can't handle it, just forget you've ever heard this. Anyway, I do hope you come along with me, Russell Kane. Right, I'm off to ruin everyone's life who likes Prince.