Richard Osman

Presenter0:01

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio Podcasts. Hello, I'm Lauren Laverne, and this is the Desert Island Discs podcast. Every week, I ask my guests to choose the eight tracks, book, and luxury they'd want to take with them if they were cast away to a desert island. For rights reasons, the music is shorter than the original broadcast. I hope you enjoy listening.

Presenter0:43

My castaway this week is Richard Osman. He's arguably television's most familiar quiz presenter, a reassuringly knowledgeable, punctilious and avuncular presence in British living rooms. It wasn't until his 40s that he became a household name, although what you see on screen isn't the realisation of some long-held dream, but one of our most successful television executives enjoying what he calls his downtime. Before he was persuaded to take up a place in front of the camera, he spent 20 years behind it, developing and producing shows including Total Wipeout, Deal or No Deal and 8 Out of Ten Cats. In recent years, he's turned his attention from all those quizzes to a different kind of puzzle. Writing two smash-hit murder mysteries. The Thursday Murder Club became the third best-selling hardback novel of all time and a Christmas number one. The follow-up became one of the fastest-selling novels since records began, and Steven Spielberg has snapped up the film rights. But despite the allure of the big screen, the small one has his heart. He says, I love television. I love its presence in the corner of every living room in Britain. I love the sense of belonging that television uniquely can bring. Richard Osman, welcome to Desert Island Discs.

Richard Osman1:54

Thank you, Lauren. It's lovely to be here.

Presenter1:55

So you love that shared experience that that T V brings, but is that rather under siege at the moment? I mean, the time when h the whole family could gather around the set and watch the same thing. You can have four people, five people in the same living room, each watching something completely different on a screen of their own these days, can't you?

Richard Osman1:57

Then

Richard Osman2:12

Yeah, scheduled television is definitely um on the out, that's for sure. So we've lost a bit of that thing that we used to have, of course, in the seventies and eighties where everyone's watching the same thing at the same time. But you know, that's still in our folk memory. And that's the thing that I loved, and that's the reason I love working television so much. But you know, it has to adapt.

Presenter2:22

Mm-hmm.

Presenter2:30

So the whole kind of multi-platform thing doesn't bother you.

Richard Osman2:32

Oh no, it's great. Bring it on. It encourages more voices, different people. There's so many more people working in this industry now, and so many people who are able to get a break in this industry. Because, you know, back in the old days, there were gatekeepers. I was shocked that I got into television. It certainly wasn't natural. Honestly, when I started, I was, you know, you're with a group of people. They didn't really want to work in television. Their parents did, or their mates did, or something like that. And they got in and I went to the same school as someone. So, yeah, the first day I walked in, you're sort of sitting chatting about a show. And I really didn't understand what they were talking about because I I'd watched Telly all my life. I knew every single show that was a bit like the one we were making. So I knew how to I just knew how to do it and I knew what people would like to watch because I love to watch Telly and I was surrounded by people who didn't watch television.

Presenter3:12

Two.

Presenter3:19

People love a board game or, you know, a cracker quiz at this time of year. Richard, do games play much part in your Christmas celebrations at home?

Richard Osman3:26

Yeah, always have done. You know, back in the early days when you know, we'd have uh Christmas with my mum and my grandparents and you know, we'd always play ball games, we'd always play Trivial Pursuit, we'd always play Ludo, we'd always play games where you realize

Richard Osman3:38

Sometimes 20, 30 years later, my granddad was making the rules up to suit himself. And so I'll play games against someone, and they go, That's not how you play this game. And you think, hold on, who taught me that? And it was absolutely my granddad. And the best thing about a quiz, always play in pairs, must always do that. But then the thing of who gets to pair with who. And there's always someone sitting in the room, you think, ah.

Presenter3:47

And he's

Presenter4:00

And why in pairs? Better for the dynamics? Better for the

Richard Osman4:02

Exactly. Well, because you can then have questions that people can chat about each other. It's just more fun, like a quiz itself. Pointless is more fun because there's pairs playing. And so you always have an opinion of a pair of people. If there's a married couple, you've always got an opinion who's married well. Quite often on pointless, this is terrible. I shouldn't say it, but we always do it. There'll be a man and a woman, and it will say friends. You know, and they'll say we're mates. And you just go, I don't know about that. Really? Are you friends? Or you think, look, she's friends. I think he wants to be more than friends. So, you know, you always, it's impossible if you see two people who have a relationship not to have a little kind of gossip about that relationship.

Presenter4:03

But

Speaker 44:24

Women's and you just go I

Speaker 44:26

Yeah.

Presenter4:32

Hmm.

Presenter4:37

Well, let's dive into your first choice then. What is it and why have you taken it with you to the island today?

Richard Osman4:43

We're talking about television and and how meaningful that was for me growing up. And there's one song I think that to anybody over a certain age just screams television and screams that shared experience and a love of our country and our culture, and it is Bring Me Sunshine, sung by Morgan Wines.

Speaker 45:00

Bring me sunshine.

Speaker 45:03

Ain't your smile.

Speaker 45:06

Bring me laughter.

Speaker 45:09

All the while.

Speaker 45:12

In this world where we live, there should be more happiness, so much joy you can give To each brand new bright tomorrow, make me happy.

Speaker 45:27

Through the years.

Presenter5:29

Morgan and Wise and Bring Me Sunshine. So, Richard Osman, you grew up with your parents and your elder brother Matt in Haywards Heath in Sussex. And I know that you recently said that you've spent quite a long time trying to trace back to the kid that you once were. Tell me about him. What was he like?

Richard Osman5:46

Uh because I don't see very well. I've I've never been a child who's who's hugely engaged in the world. Just someone on the sidelines, I think. But I was very deeply content. I found it very easy to entertain myself, and I still do, uh and to amuse myself. And I had the the most wonderful mum in the world, and I I look back on it with great affection. I mean, I mean, my father left when I was quite young, when I was about nine, and that was probably

Presenter6:08

That was proper.

Richard Osman6:10

The end of that innocence, I suspect. You know, I think I still had a lot of happiness, but I think it it fundamentally changed me a bit.

Presenter6:17

And it was a moment, wasn't it, your dad's leaving? It was a really kind of sudden and seismic change.

Richard Osman6:21

Oh yeah, I mean it couldn't have been more English. There was never a raised voice in our house at all until the day we're called into our front room. You know, I had a glass of orange squash and he said that he was in love with someone else and he was leaving and he hoped that was okay. And yeah, complete shock, a complete surprise. And listen, it was in 1970 so no one really knew how to handle these things. It was handled very badly. Badly in what way?

Presenter6:47

Probably in what way?

Richard Osman6:48

Well, badly in that there was no sign that it was ever going to happen. It was done instantly. He had moved out instantly. I didn't see him for a very long time. And No one really explained to me what happened and why it happened and so, you know, I I was able to put up a front of what it it doesn't worry me anyway. I'm not fussed anyway and I don't really need my dad anyway.

Presenter7:09

Yeah, you you said you shut yourself down.

Richard Osman7:12

Yeah, I certainly shut a bit of myself down, that's for sure, you know,'cause it's very painful, especially when you're a kid.

Presenter7:18

So there was no co-parenting. There was you didn't m maintain a relationship with him after he left?

Richard Osman7:22

For like about six months I did and then he sort of moved up to the Midlands and he's you know occasionally I'd have to go up to see him I'd have to get like a coach up from Gatwick up to rugby and he'd meet me there and he'd just think this doesn't seem right for a ten year old and so eventually I just said look this is not for me and I threw a little tantrum and said I don't want to see you anymore which of course was looking for attention and but it was taken at face value so I didn't see him anymore and then I reconnected with him in my 20s when I had kids because I you know I sort of understood it a bit more about why he'd done what he'd done and I did get it and the first thing he said is oh you must want to find out everything I've been up to since I last saw you and I was like not really I was maybe you know as your son I just want to tell you what I've been up to but that's his he's not he wasn't a mean man he just didn't have I don't think he had a huge amount of empathy

Presenter8:13

I think we'd better have some more music, Richard. Second choice today. What is it?

Richard Osman8:17

My brother, Matt, he's three years older than me, he was always, always in bands. He was always playing his bass and you know, formed a band with Brett Anderson in their teens. So, Brett and Matt were always around, and then they became Swayed. So, my second song, it's the one they did on Top of the Pops. It was like someone had punched a hole in the sky for me. You just think, wow, we're from where we're from, and you're on Top of the Pops, mate, with your friends doing these songs. I was so proud of him.

Richard Osman8:47

And also, selfishly, I thought, oh, we can do it. There's opportunities out there. You can make it if you want. I'll never forget it as long as I live. And it's uh the song is called Metal Mickey.

Presenter8:52

You come

Speaker 49:02

Litter in a lovely heart

Speaker 49:06

Yeah.

Speaker 49:07

I leave it all

Speaker 49:09

I know the tapers shut their money in tar

Speaker 49:14

Jesus

Speaker 49:19

Time of grace

Speaker 49:22

Oh wow, she's driving me back.

Presenter9:28

Swade and Metal Mickey. Richard Osman, after your dad left, your mum Brenda faced the challenge of bringing up you and your brother Matt, who we just heard with his band Swade, on her own. How do you remember that time?

Richard Osman9:41

looking back, what she did was extraordinary'cause you you know, listen, we didn't have any money, but we would go on a coach holiday and we'd go to Italy on a coach for like forty eight hours and

Richard Osman9:51

stay in a tent and she would I'm when I look back I just think oh my god you took two kids on a 48 hour coaching must have been miserable and she eventually became a full-time primary school teacher which is a perfect job for her and she would take in homework every night she'd be stuffing envelopes for companies for sort of 0.001p and it's that's not what she signed up for when she married my dad you know it's not what she signed up for she signed up to have the life which she did deserve and I was never really properly made aware of it you know you could I would hear her crying sometimes and that obviously I've tried to blank out because it's something that wasn't allowed to get past my defensive wall but no she's an extraordinary woman and she did extraordinary things and you know I'm very very coarse beyond grateful for that and now some of the ways I'm able to pay her back delight me just about my favorite thing about my success is the the things I'm able to give to her.

Presenter10:14

Yeah, it's not

Presenter10:29

But

Presenter10:44

What kind of treats do you like to give to your mum?

Richard Osman10:47

I bought her where she lives. I was a I was able to buy somewhere for her that she wouldn't have been able to afford and she loves where she lives. She absolutely adores it.

Presenter10:54

It did then inspire a couple of best-selling novels that we may come to later.

Richard Osman10:56

Well, I know, you know, that's paid off, doesn't it? So I'm able to do that. But also, you know, it's lovely, like.

Richard Osman11:03

The Sunday Times interviewed her the other day, and so she's on the front cover of the Sunday Times. That whole generation, it's fair to say, are actually fairly obsessed with fame. I know we think the younger generation is, but you know, my mum, all she ever wants to know is, am I okay? And what's Stephen Fry like? That's all she cares about. And to be able to bring that into her life has been because, my God, the things she brought into my life are extraordinary. And I'll never be able to pay her back. But just these little payments are nice.

Presenter11:27

Richard, it's time to go to the music. Your third choice today. What is it?

Richard Osman11:30

The thing I've always loved is sport. It's given me such joy over the years. And one of the sports that gave me a huge amount of joy is the snooker. And I was sitting on the sofa about three or four months ago. The snooker started. I had a packet of frazzles. And I thought, I'm 50. And the nine-year-old me was doing the exact same thing. And the rather lovely thing is the theme music to the snooker has not changed either. And the second I hear it, it brings me such great inner peace and reminds me of happiness at all my ages. So I'm going to go for, I think it's called Drag Racer, but it's the theme to the BBC snooker.

Presenter12:40

Drag Racer by the Doug Wood Band, perhaps more familiar as the theme song to the BBC's snooker coverage. So Richard Osmond, you were born with nystagmus, I think it's pronounced, a condition that causes uncontrolled eye movement. How much impact did it have on you when you were growing up?

Richard Osman12:50

Uh-huh.

Richard Osman12:57

It is a thing where the world is essentially in soft focus all the time. So it's like being in the fog all the time. Some people have it worse than me, some people have it and don't notice it. But you know, it's one of those things, yeah, where you can't drive. When I was at school, I could never see the board. I couldn't see the textbooks in front of me. I can't see the birds in the trees. If I'm watching cricket or something, I can't see the ball. So TV was incredibly important to me because they'll show me a slow motion of the ball in cricket and they'll show me a bird in a tree that I wouldn't see. And TV, of course, ridiculous, is a visual medium. And if I'm ever sitting in an edit, I can't see if a boomer's come into shot. I can't see something looks good. I'm just listening. I just listen to what's happening. And if I'm presenting...

Presenter13:01

So it's like

Richard Osman13:41

I can't read an autocue, of course, it's too far away. And so that just means that I never read autocues, which means I mix stuff up. Which means, hopefully, you know, when you do long-running shows, they feel fresh because you're not saying the same thing all the time, which is easy to fall into. So, you know, I've been able to use it to my advantage. But yeah, I'd rather be at the Seawell. That would be great. I would love that. But listen, I see beautiful things sometimes that no one else would ever see because I see a haze in the distance and you know it's a building and I don't. I just see this beautiful experimental painting.

Presenter14:13

As a child then, you you started coming up with formats for games, quizzes and even T V shows. What was the appeal? And how did that start to happen? It it's beginning to sound to me like that is just the way your mind works.

Richard Osman14:20

Well

Richard Osman14:26

All of my TV success really comes from sport. I've always loved sport. And in sport, you've got leagues, you've got knockout cups, you've got things like the Ryder Cup, where you've got individuals playing against each other, then pairs playing against each other, watching TV and family fortunes and all these types of shows and blockbusters. Yeah, my brain was interested in how they put it together. My brain was going, oh, that's okay. Why have you done that? Why have you made that decision? I just love doing it. That's what I love to do.

Presenter14:50

Can you remember any of those early experiments?

Richard Osman14:53

I did these things when I was sort of twelve, right where I'd do like the World Cup of music and you know I'd sort of pick the sixteen best bands and then they'd play off against each other in little kind of uh knockout competitions. Years later on Twitter I was doing the same thing. I did like the World Cup of Christmas Sweets and the World Cup of um

Presenter15:10

The crisps are very controversial.

Richard Osman15:11

Christmas and you know Christmas films and we raise loads of money for charity and again it it keeps happening. I I would look back and go, Okay, yeah, that's what you used to do and but now you're monetizing it. Yeah, I even did a Christmas book, The World Cup of Everything, which which you know was uh which was lovely. I think I wrote in that, I just went, This is dedicated to the twelve-year-old me, just to say, Look, I'm still doing it, I'm still doing it, but now it's in bookshops.

Presenter15:19

But now you're monetizing it.

Presenter15:23

Which means

Presenter15:34

All right, let's have some more music, Richard. This is your fourth selection today. What have you gone for and why?

Richard Osman15:40

Talking about uh that thing of sort of losing yourself slightly, or b not not growing up to be the person that you were supposed to be. And that definitely happened to me, I think, in my twenties and thirties. And then um I went I never occurred to me that I would do. I went to into therapy, and this is a song I didn't used to like, kind of

Richard Osman15:58

Big brash pop music. You know, when I was a teenager, I didn't like, you know, kind of ABBA and Queen and stuff like that, and I certainly didn't like musicals. So this is a song that's so full of joy and that reminds me that I'm back to who I was, I'm back to where I was, and it's You Can't Stop the Beat from the Musical Hairspray.

Speaker 416:14

You can't stop the beef ever since this whole world began. A woman fatted it, she shook your chicken, shake up a man. And so I'm gonna shake and shimmy in the best that I can today. You can't stop the motion of the ocean, of the sun in the sky. If you wonder if you're wanna fight, I'll never ask why. And if they try to low me down, I'm gonna spit in your eye and say, You can't stop the beef.

Presenter16:43

You can't stop the beat, from the soundtrack to the film Hairspray, performed by the cast. So Richard Osman, let's talk about your first steps into broadcasting. When you were sixteen, you started working at Radio Sussex. What sort of programmes were you involved with?

Richard Osman16:57

That was like a volunteer show on Radio Sussex called Turn It Up and it was very, very cool, like kind of music and stuff. And yeah, the first band I ever interviewed was Pot With Eat Itself.

Presenter17:07

Well, it's not too bad, isn't it?

Richard Osman17:07

That's not too bad, is it? Yeah, they weren't they were not impressed with me.

Presenter17:08

Yeah, but

Richard Osman17:11

Like a 15 year old. I mean listen, it was a sorry pot willy to self if you're listening. But you know, I loved it. I loved being in the studio. I loved talking in front of the mic. You know, I loved having that freedom. And I've always said, oh, I never wanted to be a T V presenter and I didn't. But then I look back and I go, God, you loved doing that radio thing when you were 16 and 17. So, you know, it must have always been there. But, you know, I've always, if I've seen an opportunity, I will write off and go for it.

Presenter17:39

A lot of self-confidence. Where did that come from?

Richard Osman17:41

I don't experience it as self-confidence in any way whatsoever. How do you experience it? I experience it as that looks like something that would be fun to do. I might see if I can do it. I was always good with ideas and packaging ideas and working out what people needed. And so I would just send something off. Even now when I sell shows and all sorts of things, I'm really I'm just writing off to someone and saying how about this?

Presenter17:45

Yeah.

Presenter18:05

But there's another piece in there, isn't there, which is something about keeping going and trying again. Because sometimes when people have an idea rejected, they then kind of think, I better go away and now try to become perfect, and that's a mistake.

Richard Osman18:16

Oh, almost everything you ever do is going to fail. I mean, that's the truth. And you know, I always I always say fail well, which is, you know, if you're doing a show or if you've written off to someone, make sure, even if it fails, that you make a good impression. I remember I I did a T V show called Boys Unlimited, which failed really badly, you know, came off air after one series. And, you know,

Presenter18:34

It was a b a spoof boy band show with James Corden. David Williams was in it as well. It was good.

Richard Osman18:35

Bye.

Richard Osman18:37

Dave Williams was in it as well. And I remember I was devastated when it came off air and it stopped me writing for years and years. But you know, the commissioners who took it off air, I just straight afterwards, we had a meeting and they said, look, we're not going to do it again. And I wrote them both a letter. I said, look, that must have been a really hard meeting for you because I know it was disappointing news. I absolutely loved working with you. Thank you so much. And I'd love the opportunity to do it again. And I was really hurting when I wrote that letter. But that's the letter to write because so many people in Teddy or anywhere would just go, you've got it wrong. How dare you? You don't understand my vision. And you think, great, well, they're not going to work with you again.

Presenter19:11

Yeah.

Presenter19:15

Time for your next disc. It's number five, Richards. What is it and why are you taking it to the island today?

Richard Osman19:21

This one is for my kids who are now very 23 and 21. And, you know, when they were younger, of course, I tried to make them listen to cool music because all parents do. And my daughter, Ruby, was talking to me the other day about how great Fiona Apple is and just saying, you know, Fiona Apple's new albums is incredible. And I said, but you used to listen to Fiona Apple when you were really little. She went, oh God, yeah, I remember that. Don't worry about that. I remember it. And I thought, that's nice. And this is just one of those songs that I knew kids would like. I loved as well. And it's Extraordinary Machine by Fiona Apple.

Speaker 419:54

I certainly haven't been shopping for any new shoe.

Speaker 419:58

And

Speaker 419:59

I certainly haven't been spreading myself around.

Speaker 420:05

I still only travel by foot and by foot it's a slow climb But I'm good at being uncomfortable So I can't stop changing all the time I notice that my opponent did

Presenter20:19

Is always on the go.

Presenter20:21

Extraordinary Machine by Fiona Apple. Richard Osman, you graduated from Cambridge University in 1992 and later joined the production company Planet 24. You then moved to Hat-Trick Productions and wrote for Have I Got News for You and Whose Line Is It Anyway? And around this time, you were also dealing with some personal issues that had started to come to the surface. What happened?

Richard Osman20:45

Well, I think it is that thing of, you know, my career was going well and I was successful. So I had all the things that I that and you know, I had kids, all the things that I thought were the thing that I needed or the thing that was going to make everything okay. And none of them did. And, you know, getting older and older and just working out that I was slightly directionless. And I had various addictive behaviours as well. And, you know, as soon as you have an addictive behaviour, you know that something's up because you know you're hiding something or controlling something.

Presenter21:13

What was happening?

Richard Osman21:14

Well, my my my ad addictive behavior has always been food. It has been since I was incredibly young. And it's it it's not seen as it doesn't have any of the sort of doomed glamour of drugs or alcohol or anything like that. But if an alcoholic came to my house, they would be shocked to see that there are

Presenter21:21

Doesn't have

Richard Osman21:31

Bottles of gin, bottles of wine, completely untouched, because an alcoholic couldn't have that in their house. And if I came to your house and there were.

Presenter21:34

Alcoholic.

Presenter21:36

I don't know.

Richard Osman21:39

Crisps or chocolate bars or anything untouched in the freezer. I'll be like, How, what? How are they untouched? If I'm going through an episode, that's the thing. It's booze. It's just booze, but food. The addiction is identical. The secrecy of consuming these things, the shame behind it. And food is a tricky one because booze and drugs you can just give up. Unbelievably difficult, but you know, a zero tolerance policy. Whereas if you're addicted to food or to love or all these things that are sustaining,

Speaker 422:02

Uh

Presenter22:02

Yeah.

Richard Osman22:08

You do still you still have to have them. And so it's quite a hard one to work your way out of.

Presenter22:13

How bad did it get for you?

Richard Osman22:15

Listen, there hasn't been a day of my life since the age of nine where I haven't thought about problems with food and how it affects me. And it will be with me for the rest of my life. I know that. You know, I'm either controlling it or not controlling it at any given time. And these days I control it more often than I don't. But again, because you have to eat, it's actually quite hard. And sometimes, you know, you do slip. But I try my best. And I certainly have no shame. about it now. And anyone at home who overeats or and thinks it's ridiculous, you've just got to divorce that. Listen, we all have something that gets us through life. And, you know, if that's yours, then you have to face it head on. It's just not being so afraid of life and afraid of what will happen if you put yourself out there. That's a difficult journey and it doesn't come naturally to me. But it's, you know, the more I try it, the happier I get.

Presenter22:59

Well, listen, speaking of enjoying life, let's enjoy some more music, Richard Osmond. What have you gone for?

Richard Osman23:04

Yeah, I'm just thinking back to Pointless when I started that and one of my favourite bits of any day on Pointless and always has been right from the start is sitting in the make-up room, which is about 45 minutes before the show. My makeup artist is Pauline, Zander's is Debbie. Sharon from Wardrobe often comes in and those 45 minutes, if I really think about it, bring me such joy. We have such fun just gossiping and you know, we've been together 12 years and we would always play, we always play songs in. the make-up room certainly in the in the early days to g us up and this is a song that reminds me of pauline debbie sharon me and zander all the gang popping in and out which is everything i've loved about having a career in tv and this is american boy by estelle and kenny oes

Speaker 323:46

They give me a pound. Tell them put the money in my hand right now. Cut up a motor, we need more seats. We just sold out all the floor seats.

Speaker 423:53

Take me on a trip, I'd like to go someday. Take me to New York, I'd like to see LA. I really want to come pick it with you.

Speaker 424:05

You'll be my American boy

Speaker 424:10

He said.

Speaker 424:11

Hey sister, it's really really nice to meet ya. I just meant this vibe.

Presenter24:16

American Boy, Estelle, featuring Kanye West. Richard Osman, in two thousand nine, the quiz show Pointless began broadcasting on the BBC. You weren't meant to be the co host, but you took on the role while the show was being developed, and you ended up with the on screen job. How did you take to working in front of the cameras?

Richard Osman24:35

The only thing that's ever terrified me about TV is the studio audience. That's the bit. A camera I'm fine with, and knowing people at home having their tea, that's what I'm fine with. When I'm in front of some raked seating and there's members of the public looking at me, I think, what on earth am I doing here? I feel such a fraud. I remember the first day if you'd said to me,

Presenter24:49

And yeah.

Richard Osman24:55

Just before we went on, honestly, we can replace you with Bradley Walsh now. I'd have gone, yeah, please do, please, honestly. I I don't need it. But I'm so thrilled that I did it. I mean, what an extraordinary, weird side project turn you know, so you know, second act.

Presenter24:59

Yeah.

Speaker 424:59

Put it on here, please.

Presenter25:07

You know, second act.

Richard Osman25:09

Yeah, and you know, Bob Holness all of a sudden.

Presenter25:12

Well, and and recently a third act, because in twenty twenty your debut novel, The Thursday Murder Club came out. It's about a group of friends living in a retirement community who solve crimes, and your mum was the inspiration. How did it happen?

Richard Osman25:14

Present

Richard Osman25:26

Yeah, I was just at where she lived, which is a beautiful retirement uh community down in Sussex, surrounded by all these fascinating people who'd done these extraordinary things. And literally just the thought, Wow, this'd be an amazing place for a murder came into my mind. Just just that, because of the w the way it looked and this kind of lakes and woodland and all sorts of stuff.

Presenter25:45

We should probably say that you read a lot of crime fiction, so that's not as much of a leap as

Richard Osman25:47

I was going to think, listen, you love murdering people, so how about here? No one's ever going to spot it.

Presenter25:55

Just to flag that.

Richard Osman25:56

Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Lauren. So I thought that, and then the second I thought, oh my god, I'm surrounded by people with incredible skills. And I thought, oh, well, listen, then we've got ourselves a gang and they can solve it. And, you know, it's like the A-team, but everyone's over 70 and they've done these extraordinary things. And yet they're sort of invisible because of the way we treat older people. And the TV producer bit of my brain just went, this has got legs. This is something you should do.

Presenter26:20

And what does your mum think of the books?

Richard Osman26:22

She was panicked that people would sue, that I'd be writing about people who lived in the village, like with their names and you know telling stories that she's told me about them. And I said, No, I've I've I really have just made stuff up, just so you know, I've even changed people's names. So she read it once very quickly, literally just for legal. She just legaled it. Yeah, she legaled the whole thing. And then she read it more slowly and loved it.

Presenter26:40

She just legaled it.

Presenter26:46

Let's have your seventh disc to day, Richard. Time some more music.

Richard Osman26:49

One of the things I absolutely love, I love writing the book, but I love the selling. I love it. And for Thursday Murder Club, I went down to Sussex to do some signings. I went to Havers Heath, where I grew up, and went to the bookshop that you know I would always go to when I was a kid, and down to Brighton, which is where I spent so much of my time. And I was doing all this signing. The book was already selling at that point, so I knew it was a hit and I knew my life had changed. And coming back in the car, it's just in the back of the car, this song came on my headphones. And there's a song I know, and a song I love, but I'd had this day.

Presenter27:17

Is this

Richard Osman27:21

I was feeling my life had just changed and again I'd gone back to where I grew up and I think sometimes it's important to be proud of yourself and that's quite difficult for people I think it's difficult for me and I just thought you know what I'm really really proud of myself and this song was on and I just burst into tears in the back of the car. I did it quietly so the driver didn't notice but I was in tears and I was in tears because I was proud of what I'd done and I'd worked so hard. And anyway the song is by Future Islands and it's called Ran.

Speaker 427:54

So

Speaker 428:07

Under

Speaker 428:10

I would sing to the cores that I feel

Presenter28:17

Ran by Future Islands. Richard Osman, you're divorced with two grown up children. Having grown up estranged from your own father, were you always conscious of giving them the things that you might have missed out on?

Richard Osman28:30

Yeah, of course. And I was I was certainly conscious that uh y you can't take that relationship for granted because I didn't have it. And, you know, I think they know I love them. If they're listening, I'll just I'll reassert it. Uh I love them very much. No, they do'cause I endlessly tell them. And I know it's boring, but I do think it's important. And yeah, hopefully one breaks the cycle, but, you know, who knows?

Presenter28:50

I know that your son's inherited your height. You're six foot seven. He's six foot five. I think you gave him some advice about making his way in the world and and being proud of his height.

Richard Osman28:52

Yeah.

Richard Osman28:54

Yeah.

Richard Osman29:00

Yeah, and it's advice, you know, I grew up very, very awkward. You know, I couldn't see. I was six foot seven. I think, oh my god, I mean, I couldn't have been more sort of physically ashamed. And, you know, I've had years of sort of coming to terms with it. Yeah, so all I said to him was, listen, when you walk into a room, you've only got two options, right? Everybody in that room are either going to say, wow, who's that really tall guy? Or they're going to say, who's that really tall guy who looks really awkward about being tall? I said, those you don't have another option, which is who's that ordinary size guy. It just doesn't exist. So when you walk into a room, you've just got to own your height.

Presenter29:36

And you're okay with it now?

Richard Osman29:37

Yeah, kind of. I mean, I'm I'm never going to be completely okay with it because there's so many idiots in the world. And the one thing about it is it's it's a great idiot radar. Sometimes I use a different word than idiot. Uh because anybody who's an idiot will say something stupid to you.

Presenter29:46

Yeah.

Presenter29:52

Is that why you've called yourself a reluctant lighthouse? Because you kind of light up the idiots? Is that what it's going to mean?

Richard Osman29:56

I think a reluctant lighthouse I think if you're tall people gravitate towards you and I get that and you know I've always tried to be gentle with people because if you're physically big it's sort of you know I never ever want to be intimidating and so the one thing you can be tall is a lighthouse and to sort of guide people's way but you know reluctant because honestly most of the time I'd rather just fade into the crowd.

Presenter30:01

See?

Presenter30:09

Yeah.

Presenter30:18

I'm about to cast you away to our island, Richard. Do you think you'll amuse yourself by coming up with World Cup of flora and fauna lists of potential island snacks, that kind of thing?

Richard Osman30:20

Wretched

Richard Osman30:28

Lauren, I definitively will. It would be impossible for me not to. I can you know, sitting in the studio, I c come up with a walk-up of lighting up buttons. I of course. I can't help but to put things in order.

Presenter30:35

Of course.

Presenter30:39

One more song before you go then. What are we going to hear?

Richard Osman30:41

I've been very lucky the last few years and I feel like I'm in a place that I want to be. I'm happy with myself. Got these beautiful kids. I've met the woman who I'm going to be with for the rest of my life, Ingrid, and I just think the motivations of being younger are gone. Competition and ambition, you know, you soon realise that that rocket fuel disappears and it's about happiness. And my kids bring me happiness and Ingrid brings me happiness. And this song is a song, whenever we have a party, this is the one where you know the party changes gear. There are certain songs in the world that I would call a banger. Lauren, you called it what you want, all killer, no filler. But this is a song that, you know, reminds me of her and just makes me think about the happy times ahead. And it's A Little Respect by Erasia.

Speaker 431:24

I tried to do this guy

Speaker 431:28

It is something to make it sweeter.

Speaker 431:32

Oh wavery

Speaker 431:37

Breaking my heart

Speaker 431:46

Forever.

Speaker 431:49

That you give me no reason why you make me work so hard

Presenter31:55

Erasure and a little respect. So, Richard Osman, it's time. I'm sending you away to the island. I will, however, of course, give you the books to take with you, the Bible and the complete works of Shakespeare, plus a book of your own. What would you like?

Richard Osman32:03

Course

Richard Osman32:09

Again, I can't help turning everything into a format. So I was firstly thinking, listen, it's got to be some short stories because then they've got a little bit extra to dip into. And then I think, well, is it crime or is it humour? So I drew two semi-finals, which were P. D. Woodhouse versus Alan Bennett short stories, and P. G. Woodhouse won that. And I had Agatha Christie versus Patricia Highsmith. And Agatha Christie won that. So it's a Christie Woodhouse final. And I think I have to go for the Poirot short stories of Agatha Christie would be the book that I would take. Yeah, good for listen. Well played, everyone.

Presenter32:39

You thrilling

Richard Osman32:40

Yeah.

Presenter32:40

It's yours. Okay. You can also have a luxury item. What will you go for there?

Richard Osman32:44

Yeah, oh this sounds silly but again when I was a kid and you know throughout my life I would just lie down on the floor with a pad and a pen and a dice and with a dice I could make all sorts of sports tournaments imaginary sports tournaments like cricket tournaments golf tournaments and I could spend hours and hours and hours and I was so happy in that sort of reverie that kind of imaginative world so I would take a pad of paper a pen and a dice and I know it wouldn't float everyone's boat but I'm very very very confident it would float mine

Presenter33:12

Then it's yours. Finally, which one track of the eight that you shared with us today would you like to save from the waves?

Richard Osman33:18

Just because I try and think about joy and I try and think about connecting and I try and think about making the most of who I am and what I can do, I would like to take You Can't Stop the Beat from Hairspray.

Presenter33:31

Richard Osmond, thank you so much for letting us hear your Desert Island discs.

Richard Osman33:35

Thank you.

Presenter33:56

I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Richard and I'm very sure he'll come up with endless mind-blowing television formats while he's on the island. We've cast away many other crime writers including Val McDermott, Ian Rankin, Manette Walters and P.D. James. You can find their episodes in our Desert Island Discs programme archive and through BBC Sounds. Next time my guest will be the engineer Dame Joe DeSilva. I do hope you'll join us.

Speaker 434:30

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Speaker 434:36

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Speaker 434:38

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Speaker 434:49

There was a very strong sense of pure evil.

Speaker 434:56

Subscribe to Uncanny on BBC Sounds.